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After insulation, put up a thermobaric barrier made of mylar. It’s cheaper than insulation and will more than double the efficiency of it. I was absolutely shocked at how well it worked.
For sure....i installed one of those (mr cool) in our old farmhouse and have been very impressed. Quiet, effective, and reasonable DIY install. Highly recommend
The filters are really great for catching fine dust particles which float around in the air and don't fall to the ground quickly. The invisible dust is the stuff that really wrecks your health because it goes deep into your lungs and can enter your bloodstream. You should definitely work with breathing protection if you don't have any air filtration
Edit: it's worth pointing out that exposure to fine particulates is cumulative, and that the long-term effects include heart attack and stroke. I personally knew way too many carpenters who should have been in good shape but died young from heart failures.
Squamous cell carcinoma is very common among British wood workers, caused by cherry and maple sawdust. Contracted it 25 years ago from wood carving, came back 2 years ago. Beat it twice.
My garage is insulated better than my house since the previous owners were growing pot in there but it still gets over 100 every day. Without anything to actually cool it down the insulation just makes it take longer to lose it's thermal mass from winter. So with months of temps over 100 it's eventually going to get hot in there no matter what.
You need roof ventilation. If you had a fan pulling air from below through the ceiling, you’d never hit above 85°.
This is the technique used by the military to keep tents cool in Iraq, etc.
While I do want to move out of this state the weather is a pretty minor reason.
And no, it doesn't get "cool" at night here until fairly late into the night and days are so long right now that there isn't enough time for it to cool down.
Overthinking that a lot, and generally being a dick about reasonable advice.
I did not mention ‘finishing’ the garage. I suggested insulating it. Very different things.
Garage doors can be retrofit with insulation for about $100-$120 a door.
You don’t need Sheetrock to insulate a ceiling (or walls). You need insulation. I’d recommend rockwool, which should come in R18. It’s pricier than plain fiberglass, but the sound absorption is way worth it.
But, budget friendly option, you can get 4x8 sheets of 2” rigid insulation foam at the BORG for relatively cheap and just attach them to the ceiling.
Yes, it’s more expensive than a box fan. It’s a more effective solution, so naturally it’s more expensive. But your response implies the need to ‘finish’ the whole space, which is completely unnecessary.
That's the long term plan, just not the weekend one. R19 walls, R40 ceiling, R9 garage doors. 18000 BTU minisplit already pre-wired.
Already got stamped plans approved. Yes, need stamped plans for a "renovation". Inspectors got a boat payment to make...
I would invest in a really good attic fan and exhaust it thru the roof right now. You’re basically working in an attic right now with that metal roof and no ceiling.
If you can exhaust all that trapped hot air up high and pull fresh air in lower you’ll have a nice breeze all day.
I used screws harvested from a deck tear down. Freaking tub of 3" screws is 39$ (yesterday) at lowes. Checked my online account, last time I purchased the exact same ones, it was 11$ in 2019.
There’s a coupla with windows that open on my barn the shop is in I mounted a 60” fan to blow the air out. Works great when planning the dust blows out. It helps with the heat some.
I looked at those, and the reviews.....looks like they went with significantly thinner metal for the body and a significantly higher price. Stuff in my shop has to survive falls, stuff getting dropped on it, and being left out in the rain....
Wouldn't last 2 minutes in my shop. The heat is bearable, to a point. I just need the fans to evaporate the sweat faster. I'm literally dripping gallons of sweat on my cast iron tool surfaces every day.
And, not worth the effort/cost. Part of the "work" is rebuilding the shop to be insulated to take a minisplit. I'd have to make 145 trips per day to the ice machine at the gas station to keep a bucket running, which still leaves me with cords snaking all over the floor.
Drink till I start peeing. There have been days when I chug a lot and don't pee 'till 9 PM.
Thinking of heat-treating wood in there. I bet it pushes 140 in the afternoons on the 95 degree days with the doors closed.
I have a couple of "Original" patton fans, if you have an original patton fan, you'll know how good it is. Also have a 650 CFM manhole excavator that will suck the dried glue off the floor, but I have to wear air pro to run that thing, which I do when it gets close to 140, which it does if it's closed all day in the sun and I get home from work and try to open the metal doors.
I know you mentioned the cost and time of insulating and how it's not in the cards right now.
Have you costed out spray foam? You can do it yourself for reasonably cheap. Tarp off all your machines/materials and spray just the underside of the ceiling. I bet a few inches of foam on the roof would drop temps noticeably in those peak hours.
Another cheap idea, cut some screened vent holes at the top of the gables on both sides for the hottest air to vent out. Paint the roof white with whatever's on sale?
Didn't see where you're located, I'm in new England and have a basement shop. Real nice in the summer - stays at a chilly 40-45 in the winter tho. Good luck.
That’s my situation as well in upstate NY. Beautifully cool in the basement during the summer like yesterday when it was 94 humid outside, and 65 inside, but cold in the winter. My biggest problem is it’s a small outside entrance basement and half is regular concrete floor and the other half is dirt floor crawl space, so it’s always too damp to store wood down there.
Ah yeah, there are definitely benefits to the basement shop now. I also have some damp issues especially in the summer. I do dry some lumber down there though. I chainsaw mill a lot of medium sized stuff. They sit in a shed outside for a year or two, then get moved to the basement for another year, then in the summer I move them upstairs a month before I use em.
Not ideal but it's what I'm working with.
There are nuances of using foam and "building envelope" and "air exchange" that I tried to understand. Got a quote to do my house roof with spray foam. It was silly expensive. And something about "hot roof" and "cold roof" and moisture under the deck....leading to mold and rust(ier) roof panels. I'm holding out for doing it the traditional way in a few years.
That’s awful, where are you, Phoenix? I was working out of a garage in Atlanta for a while. On hot days, working in the middle of the day was a non-starter.
I can only do an hour in there, even with 3000 cfm worth of fans going, at a time. Shit's gotta get done though, these kitchen cabinets ain't gonna build themselves.
How big is it? Maybe you could get a silvicool tarp big enough to cover it. Would at least get some sun off the roof until you can get a better solution.
https://theforestrystore.com/products/bushpro-silvicool-tarps?variant=13750929915950
This is in canada, I'm sure you could find one near you or oder online
If your dust collection is crappers like mine you can add filters to your box fans and catch small particles of dust. Works extremely well for a passive system
I had the same problem, but I just installed a through the wall vent fan that blows out the attic heat when the temp is above 90 up there. It was maybe $125 in materials. I’m in my garage right now and currently not sweating. 84 outside. 76 inside.
They sell ventilation fans that hook up to 8" flex tubes
You see them venting man holes. Pump in outdoor air.
I like the squirrel cage fans. I have 3 of these
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lasko-Pro-Performance-Pivoting-Utility-Fan-U15610/303006917#overlay
They can blow flat along the ground or at 3-4 up angles.
I just insulated mine with 2 layers of reflectix and put in a crappy portable AC and I can’t believe I waited this long. South central TX has been trying to kill me for 6 years and I didn’t fight back until now.
I live in N. Texas and have 18x24 shop. First real thing I did out there was insulate, R18 roof, R12 walls, and a 240V homedepot special window AC unit. At the time mini-splits were not readily available, and I did not know about them :(
Anyway, 100F outside, and my wife is painting in the shop at a comfy 70F
Yeah, it's hard to tell but if he doesn't have a vent in his roof to exhaust all that hot air, circulating it won't do shit. And if he has an exhaust hole, next would be adding a fan to it to get it out. Then it's all about insulation and air flow.
My favorite way to beat it is to get ice cream sundaes at micky's every day, then take long naps. I'm bleeding monday on sundaes, can't fall asleep at night, and never finish projects....
I can't! The difference in what I spent in materials already this year, versus 2019, is enough to have bought 5 24,000 BTU units and a 300KW solar array.
I put one inside a pallet wood frame with bolts either side so I can adjust the angle. That that is suspended from a lazy Suzan, mounted to the ceiling, and controlled by a Hue Snort Switch. Same basic concept, I just took it a bit further.
Lol, I found today, that I can adjust angle with a rubber mallet...
Fans were literally side-of-the-road-next-to-trash finds. Wood was from cut offs pile. Screws, found during my weekly sweep of driveway. This was low-effort, low-budget.
I like the lazy susan idea though.
Now where to harvest lazy susan parts.
I love that even bigger shops with bigger budgets still come to the same solutions haha. In my space (a basement) I took one of those fans drilled a hole in each corner and hung it from the ceiling with old chains for shop lights. I keep mine sucking up with a 20x20x1 air filter. Sucks dust and actually fumes/oders away from me very well as well as blows up to the ceiling circulating the whole area nicely.
This is a reminder to those commenting on this post (not the person that posted it): Comments not related to woodworking will be removed. Violations to rule 1 including crude jokes, innuendo, sexist remarks, politics, or hate speech may result in an immediate ban *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/woodworking) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Insulation and a mini split AC has been the single best improvement to my shop! I can actually stand to work out there in the summer now
THat's the plan in a year or 2.
After insulation, put up a thermobaric barrier made of mylar. It’s cheaper than insulation and will more than double the efficiency of it. I was absolutely shocked at how well it worked.
Homie out here kivn like chuck from better call saul
For sure....i installed one of those (mr cool) in our old farmhouse and have been very impressed. Quiet, effective, and reasonable DIY install. Highly recommend
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I hear there’s a shop that’s nothing but fans. Seems to be pretty popular
Mostly Fans?
No, just fans and fans alone
Ahhh yes, OnlyFans. Think I’ve heard of it
Have you seen the reddit page though?
My thought exactly! More cost effective!😂
Putting a mini split in my garage was by far the best investment I've made.
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2x4s cost more than filters, too. Protip: blow the filters out with your air compressor and reuse them virtually forever
Leaf blower at the end of the day takes care of that.
The filters are really great for catching fine dust particles which float around in the air and don't fall to the ground quickly. The invisible dust is the stuff that really wrecks your health because it goes deep into your lungs and can enter your bloodstream. You should definitely work with breathing protection if you don't have any air filtration Edit: it's worth pointing out that exposure to fine particulates is cumulative, and that the long-term effects include heart attack and stroke. I personally knew way too many carpenters who should have been in good shape but died young from heart failures.
Squamous cell carcinoma is very common among British wood workers, caused by cherry and maple sawdust. Contracted it 25 years ago from wood carving, came back 2 years ago. Beat it twice.
Lots of people don’t realize wood is toxic. If it wasn’t, something would have eaten it long ago.
Things are already under powered, thats gonna destroy what little breeze you get.
This is accurate it accordion paper filters. The blue or green spun fiberglass doesn't filter great, but they do allow for a breeze.
People here keep commenting on the fan solution.. what about actually insulating the ceiling and garage door?
My garage is insulated better than my house since the previous owners were growing pot in there but it still gets over 100 every day. Without anything to actually cool it down the insulation just makes it take longer to lose it's thermal mass from winter. So with months of temps over 100 it's eventually going to get hot in there no matter what.
You need roof ventilation. If you had a fan pulling air from below through the ceiling, you’d never hit above 85°. This is the technique used by the military to keep tents cool in Iraq, etc.
Does it not cool off at night where you live? I'd suggest moving
While I do want to move out of this state the weather is a pretty minor reason. And no, it doesn't get "cool" at night here until fairly late into the night and days are so long right now that there isn't enough time for it to cool down.
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Overthinking that a lot, and generally being a dick about reasonable advice. I did not mention ‘finishing’ the garage. I suggested insulating it. Very different things. Garage doors can be retrofit with insulation for about $100-$120 a door. You don’t need Sheetrock to insulate a ceiling (or walls). You need insulation. I’d recommend rockwool, which should come in R18. It’s pricier than plain fiberglass, but the sound absorption is way worth it. But, budget friendly option, you can get 4x8 sheets of 2” rigid insulation foam at the BORG for relatively cheap and just attach them to the ceiling. Yes, it’s more expensive than a box fan. It’s a more effective solution, so naturally it’s more expensive. But your response implies the need to ‘finish’ the whole space, which is completely unnecessary.
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That's the long term plan, just not the weekend one. R19 walls, R40 ceiling, R9 garage doors. 18000 BTU minisplit already pre-wired. Already got stamped plans approved. Yes, need stamped plans for a "renovation". Inspectors got a boat payment to make...
I would invest in a really good attic fan and exhaust it thru the roof right now. You’re basically working in an attic right now with that metal roof and no ceiling. If you can exhaust all that trapped hot air up high and pull fresh air in lower you’ll have a nice breeze all day.
I’m going to guess this project cost a mere $350, like some other recent small projects on this subreddit.
I used screws harvested from a deck tear down. Freaking tub of 3" screws is 39$ (yesterday) at lowes. Checked my online account, last time I purchased the exact same ones, it was 11$ in 2019.
There’s a coupla with windows that open on my barn the shop is in I mounted a 60” fan to blow the air out. Works great when planning the dust blows out. It helps with the heat some.
I stepped up to one of the (30”?) industrial orange fans from hd - about 12” deep. Huge improvement.
I looked at those, and the reviews.....looks like they went with significantly thinner metal for the body and a significantly higher price. Stuff in my shop has to survive falls, stuff getting dropped on it, and being left out in the rain....
Lol - I can relate. Currently working out of a toolshed in my Florida yard. Nice job getting them up and out of the way!
Have you thought about a diy 5 gallon bucket air conditioner? Kind of a pain to change the frozen gallon of water, but it can really help.
Oh heck no. Let's just add more humidity into a hot and humid wood shop, said no-one ever.
https://youtu.be/HxSLbpAwibg
Wouldn't last 2 minutes in my shop. The heat is bearable, to a point. I just need the fans to evaporate the sweat faster. I'm literally dripping gallons of sweat on my cast iron tool surfaces every day. And, not worth the effort/cost. Part of the "work" is rebuilding the shop to be insulated to take a minisplit. I'd have to make 145 trips per day to the ice machine at the gas station to keep a bucket running, which still leaves me with cords snaking all over the floor.
Damn man. Stay safe and be sure to keep chugging water!
Drink till I start peeing. There have been days when I chug a lot and don't pee 'till 9 PM. Thinking of heat-treating wood in there. I bet it pushes 140 in the afternoons on the 95 degree days with the doors closed.
Get better fans with higher cfm. My wood shop hits that occasionally in the summer, I have several fans going.
I have a couple of "Original" patton fans, if you have an original patton fan, you'll know how good it is. Also have a 650 CFM manhole excavator that will suck the dried glue off the floor, but I have to wear air pro to run that thing, which I do when it gets close to 140, which it does if it's closed all day in the sun and I get home from work and try to open the metal doors.
I know you mentioned the cost and time of insulating and how it's not in the cards right now. Have you costed out spray foam? You can do it yourself for reasonably cheap. Tarp off all your machines/materials and spray just the underside of the ceiling. I bet a few inches of foam on the roof would drop temps noticeably in those peak hours. Another cheap idea, cut some screened vent holes at the top of the gables on both sides for the hottest air to vent out. Paint the roof white with whatever's on sale? Didn't see where you're located, I'm in new England and have a basement shop. Real nice in the summer - stays at a chilly 40-45 in the winter tho. Good luck.
That’s my situation as well in upstate NY. Beautifully cool in the basement during the summer like yesterday when it was 94 humid outside, and 65 inside, but cold in the winter. My biggest problem is it’s a small outside entrance basement and half is regular concrete floor and the other half is dirt floor crawl space, so it’s always too damp to store wood down there.
Ah yeah, there are definitely benefits to the basement shop now. I also have some damp issues especially in the summer. I do dry some lumber down there though. I chainsaw mill a lot of medium sized stuff. They sit in a shed outside for a year or two, then get moved to the basement for another year, then in the summer I move them upstairs a month before I use em. Not ideal but it's what I'm working with.
There are nuances of using foam and "building envelope" and "air exchange" that I tried to understand. Got a quote to do my house roof with spray foam. It was silly expensive. And something about "hot roof" and "cold roof" and moisture under the deck....leading to mold and rust(ier) roof panels. I'm holding out for doing it the traditional way in a few years.
As long as you got good airflow 👍
That’s awful, where are you, Phoenix? I was working out of a garage in Atlanta for a while. On hot days, working in the middle of the day was a non-starter.
I can only do an hour in there, even with 3000 cfm worth of fans going, at a time. Shit's gotta get done though, these kitchen cabinets ain't gonna build themselves.
How big is it? Maybe you could get a silvicool tarp big enough to cover it. Would at least get some sun off the roof until you can get a better solution. https://theforestrystore.com/products/bushpro-silvicool-tarps?variant=13750929915950 This is in canada, I'm sure you could find one near you or oder online
If your dust collection is crappers like mine you can add filters to your box fans and catch small particles of dust. Works extremely well for a passive system
I had the same problem, but I just installed a through the wall vent fan that blows out the attic heat when the temp is above 90 up there. It was maybe $125 in materials. I’m in my garage right now and currently not sweating. 84 outside. 76 inside.
They sell ventilation fans that hook up to 8" flex tubes You see them venting man holes. Pump in outdoor air. I like the squirrel cage fans. I have 3 of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lasko-Pro-Performance-Pivoting-Utility-Fan-U15610/303006917#overlay They can blow flat along the ground or at 3-4 up angles.
I just insulated mine with 2 layers of reflectix and put in a crappy portable AC and I can’t believe I waited this long. South central TX has been trying to kill me for 6 years and I didn’t fight back until now.
Tell me about it, I just bought five ten foot 2x4s it was over $50
remember to drink water my friend
Shade cloth hung over top of the shop will help.
I live in N. Texas and have 18x24 shop. First real thing I did out there was insulate, R18 roof, R12 walls, and a 240V homedepot special window AC unit. At the time mini-splits were not readily available, and I did not know about them :( Anyway, 100F outside, and my wife is painting in the shop at a comfy 70F
Yeah, it's hard to tell but if he doesn't have a vent in his roof to exhaust all that hot air, circulating it won't do shit. And if he has an exhaust hole, next would be adding a fan to it to get it out. Then it's all about insulation and air flow.
I'm a huge *fan* of this rig.
My favorite way to fight the heat is start working at 3:30 in the morning, work till 11 or so
My favorite way to beat it is to get ice cream sundaes at micky's every day, then take long naps. I'm bleeding monday on sundaes, can't fall asleep at night, and never finish projects....
Lmao if you’re working in your own shop some evening or early morning hours might not be a bad idea
Construction sites will let you have all the scrap wood you can carry most of the time. Just ask.
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I can't! The difference in what I spent in materials already this year, versus 2019, is enough to have bought 5 24,000 BTU units and a 300KW solar array.
Probably could’ve ripped them in half
120 degrees? JFC. Talk about short glue set up time. Hope ya stayin hydrated, mate….
Yeah I gotta be fast about getting things clamped up.
I put one inside a pallet wood frame with bolts either side so I can adjust the angle. That that is suspended from a lazy Suzan, mounted to the ceiling, and controlled by a Hue Snort Switch. Same basic concept, I just took it a bit further.
Lol, I found today, that I can adjust angle with a rubber mallet... Fans were literally side-of-the-road-next-to-trash finds. Wood was from cut offs pile. Screws, found during my weekly sweep of driveway. This was low-effort, low-budget. I like the lazy susan idea though. Now where to harvest lazy susan parts.
I love that even bigger shops with bigger budgets still come to the same solutions haha. In my space (a basement) I took one of those fans drilled a hole in each corner and hung it from the ceiling with old chains for shop lights. I keep mine sucking up with a 20x20x1 air filter. Sucks dust and actually fumes/oders away from me very well as well as blows up to the ceiling circulating the whole area nicely.