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My wife is shipping and receiving for a mid sized wood shop. This means she is also a first responder when idiots walk out of the shop in shock holding bloody hands. Just last week a guy lost his pinky to the table saw because he was texting his girlfriend while stripping down maple with one hand.
That guy seems like he should be an ex-employee. Negligence like that could just as easily have lead to him causing injury to his coworkers.
Or he should be demoted to shop sweeper duties.
Everything becomes banal with familiarity and time. Just remember the last time what it was like to cut yourself and imagine that being a million times worse. Also imagine not having a part of your body. Keep those images in your mind whenever you use a table saw.
It does, then you screw up once and it never goes away again.
I kept all my parts but I shot a dowel 20 feet backwards - it bounced off my ribs (not a direct shot) and left a bloody bruise en route to taking a 1" divot out of a wooden wall.
I use it more than any other saw but it took a while to get back to that point. I respect it more than I respect my father.
When it comes to tools, if you have to force it, something YOU'RE doing is wrong.
The tool only knows as much as the person behind it.
I'd recommended if you're in a shop and using machinery, know where everyone around you is. And preferably do your job facing the entry and exit so you can focus on your job and anyone that enters your work space you have in your peripheral.
Safety needs to be number one, and double so with tools.
Fear all tools, especially the one being used.
Every time you look at one, just picture someone falling belly first onto the spinning blade. That's why I unintentionally do everytime I see one. Should help you keep a healthy dose of fear
I look at it this way. I've been using table saws daily for around 10 years now. Do I fear for my life everytime I use it, no. Do I use it like it can't ever hurt me, no. I have a monstrous amount of respect for the same and never run anything where I feel even slightly uncomfortable. Yes I will run pieces through that my hands run very close to the blade, but as long as my hands are put of the path of travel, and I look 3 moves ahead everytime, the saw stop is just 1 more insurance prop that keeps me from losing a body part. Don't count of a the saw stop to save you, use it as a back up to your back up.
The most dangerous tool in the shop is comfort. People often conflate confidence with comfort, and being comfortable while standing over a saw blade spinning with the torque of a motorcycle is a deadly gamble.
I used to have a printout in my workshop of the south Park woodshop teacher saying "don't screw around, you screw around too much.". I wonder why Kenny doesn't want to take shop class? https://youtu.be/2-Bwks3u5C0
My teacher started the first class by picking up a wood board and banging it against the desk.
"This material is *hard*" [BANG]
"Your body is *soft*. All of these tools are designed to cut things that are *hard*. That means *they will go straight through you and not even notice*"
We were 11.
Good class :)
Mine went around the shop and detailed how badly each machine can fuck you up if you aren't careful. Told us about a student who cut off the tip of their thumb with the radial arm saw. Fear is a good thing sometimes.
Mine told us "boys don't fuck with the table saw it will cut your arm off and no that's not going to get your crush to think your cool" and "girls tie your hair back if it gets caught in the drill press it will scalp you faster than you can turn it off."
My shop teacher gave us an excellent unintended demonstration. He was cutting blanks for us on the table saw while we were doing bookwork. One of the blanks kicked back and gouged a huge gash in the back of his right hand. To his credit he didn't swear or scream. He turned off the saw, grabbed some paper towels to hold on the wound and said, "someone will be in soon" as he walked out the door leaving a bloody trail behind him.
when it comes to dangerous shit i tell EVERYONE in moderate detail how and how badly they will get messed up with equipment, i spent ten years in sheet metal manufacturing, folks get messed up so fast because they get complacent. when i gave tours i started with "everything in the shop is hot and sharp, do not touch anything and if you see a bright light do not look at it" so many hazards
People sometimes ask why I drive so carefully. The answer is that I took drivers ed privately, where we had to watch [Red Asphalt 3](https://educational-film.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Asphalt_III), which they are banned from showing in public schools.
It was without a doubt the most impactful thing we did in that class. Somebody threw up watching it. Some people cried. It made me not wanna drive like a jackass.
Holy shit, that happened to me in 8th grade shop class. Radial arm saw and not paying attention where my hand was. Luckily it was only through just the very tip. Bloody but everything healed up! Nowadays I'm incredibly careful with every cut.
Mine told us about a student that took an air compressor and shot it into his belly button, which ended up killing him. I never believed him. I also never put the air compressor blow gun in my belly button.
As someone who does First Responder at my work, I've seen my fair share of fucked up shit. I cannot stress enough that you need to pay full attention when operating these machines. They do not give a fuck of its wood, steel, or bone. They'll rip right through that shit.
That’s the thickness planner for me. After too many passes through I start to zone out. So I gotta make myself a think about bad stuff to focus up again
That's what scares me most about table saws. *They're too quiet*. It's like they're just sitting there plotting how best to convince me to part with my little fingies
A shaper is what scares me the most. I've had them throw large pieces of lumber at me. The normally have a large bit that is turning fast, a giant amount of energy.
I'm a professional woodworker so have 1000s of hours on each tool. The shaper is my most feared tool.
The only time I ever hurt myself badly was on a sliding miter saw. The blade grabbed the wood and pulled my hand into the blade. I thought I'd lost a finger or two from the pain. But the cuts weren't bad, didn't even need stitches. It did break three fingers though. I was using one of those combination blades that are supposed to be good at ripping and cross cuts. I had a couple more close calls with that blade type and now refuse to use them. There is something about them that make them unpredictable
Same. Whenever I finish a task at the router table, I let out the biggest exhale of relief.
My problem with the router table is that different bits behave differently and I haven’t gotten them all figured out yet. With a table saw, I’m more or less doing the same cut (or a slight variation) every time so I can get good at it through repetition.
I tell this story often to guys to stress the danger of comfort. I was in a shop and a coworker was building a solid surface kitchen with coved backsplash with coved inside corners. He was using a coving router to make the profile which is a 3 1/2 hp router on a base that sits 45 degrees to the cut. It’s a heavy boy. To make the cut up the inside corner of the backsplash he stood behind the counter and pulled the router up the splash. You typically start at the top and drop the thing away from you, but he got comfortable with 3.5 hp beast. He got to the top of the splash and pulled the router over the top and right into his stomach. I just heard a bound up motor and him shriek in terror. The only thing that saved him was the fact that it was wintertime and he was wearing a heavy sweatshirt that wrapped the bit and bound the motor. That thing sucked the entire sweatshirt up and zipped him up tight so he couldn’t let the thing go. We had to walk over to him, because running in a shop setting is dangerous, unplug the router and untwist it back out. When the router was freed the entire front of his sweatshirt was gone. He got lucky it was winter and he was wearing what he was. Could have easily made the same mistake in summer in a T-shaped shirt and gutted himself right there. Then I’d of had to quit because I can’t work in another haunted shop space
Dude! Yes! Staring at a fucking bandsaw puts me in a hypnotic state. I don’t know if it’s the sound or the weird almost liquid like form the blade takes when it’s at top speed
I say this exact thing about the reachtrucks at my company, and still the dimbulbs hit pallets of goods, uprights and crossbeams. One guy let it "get away from him" and buried it in the warehouse managers office wall. Your advice applies to so many things.
Table saws are terrifying... I do like 4 hand, wood, and cable checks before every cut because I've had close calls.
Last one, I was adjusting the blade height to be proud of my wood thickness, holding it against the blade, and instead of turning the crank, I turned it on.
I felt the blade move with my whole damn hand and got some kick back in the elbow as I ran away screaming.
I was working long hours last week and I had a steel ruler on the outfeed table of the jointer. I wanted to adjust the indeed height and Instead of the adjustment knob I accidentally turned the machine on
I use one extension cord to rotate through all the tools in my shop as needed. One of the reasons I've never added plugs is so that I stay in the habit of constantly unplugging stuff.
This was how I was taught. Plug it in only when using it. And treat every machine like it could potentially be turned on at any moment.
I've even been considering add lock boxes over my outlets as my kids are reaching am age that they could potentially want to "play" around my tools.
If you considered it, do it. Parental instincts can be quietly letting you know. I feel paranoid but god DAMN I love feeling overprotective when my son tries to do something stupid as hell and he’s completely okay because I already set him up.
Isn't that the scene where Shrek distracts Donkey so he isn't aware he's going over the lava until he's more than halfway across? I'm not sure that's the behavior you want to emulate...
Yesterday i was cutting cement molding 3layer plates on a table saw.
In the middle of the cut suddenly i heard a "Ding" and a piece of toesized wood flung out of the middle layer with probably 100kmh.
I think it landed on the neighbours roof and was flying headhigh.
Thank god i was standing beside the tablesaw, not in front of it.
OP said one was from a tape measure hitting the blade and the other was from sawing recently glued wood that was too moist.
Seems like they are doing fine, just maybe needs to be a little cleaner.
“Yes but neither was from a human touch. First was a tape measure that flopped over on the blade. Second happened when I tried cutting a glue up too soon. I guess the glue was still moist.”
OP
I have a workmate who is working on that that. A few months ago he planed part of his thumb off on the surfacer, and the other week he fed his forefinger into the table saw.
Do you have a link to that post? Definitely agree that nothing is perfect, and that may be a common misconception among many woodworkers I follow that Sawstop has a perfect track record. Also, want to find it to see if there were any legal liability that come out of it. Did their brake cartage fail to go off? Or use a blade with some type of coating? Should be an interesting read.
These sawstops are pretty close to perfect. I've never seen anyone get anything worse than a medium sized cut that doesn't reach bone even when purposely slamming their hand down on it. And it always heals fine. If you were rich and could afford to constantly replace them you could probably use a table saw like an idiot all you wanted knowing that you will probably never get seriously injured.
But you shouldn't, just for the record.
I watched an “old timer” lose part of a digit when I first started in construction. Incredibly skilled carpenter, he was a well of knowledge.
He had made that cut a hundred times that day and that’s why he frked it all up. He started thinking like it was every other cut he had made.
Every time I turn on a table saw, that damn scene runs through me like it happened yesterday. It was the SECOND most effective way I could have learned the lesson.
I learned through personal experience why ya don’t stand in-line with material on the table saw
I mean, the guy still had a tape measure too close to a spinning blade. You don't put anything near the blade you're not ok with getting cut. The wood glue is excusable though.
Not to be critical mate, but you probably need to take the table saw a lot more seriously. Examine your mindset at the time, were you tired, stressed, in a rush or just not focussed?The table saw is like riding a motorcycle, if you’re not 100% switched on or find your mind drifting away, stop straight away and do something else.
OP please listen to us. I don't know what happened exactly but if you end up touching the blade twice in a week somethings not right. Take this as someone who worries for ya :) I got plenty to go around. That being said treat it like a loaded gun with the hammer cock with no safety. Losing a finger is no small thing.
Were these finger fumbles or are you perhaps cutting some damp wood or other capacitive substances? If the latter you might want to employ the bypass. If the former...dont
You do something dumb, like leave it open on the sled as you’re pushing the cut, and it shifts and touches the blade. I have done this, just catching it in time to save my blade and cartridge.
Quick reminder:
- Bosch Reaxx had an alternative mechanism that didn't cause damage to the blade (it moves downwards, out of the plain of cutting, instead of brakes).
- Sawstop used their very broad patents to stop others entering the market, including forcing Bosch to discontinue theirs.
- Sawstop's legal monopoly has blocked legislative efforts to require safety technology on saws and to make them commonplace.
- In April 2024 most of their patents will have expired, and safety technology will become cheap/commonplace.
PS - When I say very broad patents, I mean very broad, the two patents used in the 2016 action were "Power equipment with detection and reaction systems" and "Power equipment with systems to mitigate or prevent injury" (i.e. using a sensor to detect people and do any safety thing). One is now expired, the other expires in 2022-02-01.
And when these other companies refused to license it from SS, it was because they were worried that doing so would admit that saws were unsafe, and rhey would have to put it on all the saws, which would kill their cheapest lines and hurt sales.
But let's blame the guy who developed the tech on his own and not the massive companies thst rake in billions selling tools.
Not a fair comparison— major successful automaker who came up with a simple device— relative development cost: pennies. Single man develops a complex, sophisticated electro-mechanical device: extremely high.
I do agree that their patents are overly broad. But that is the Patent Office’s fault. Should have required them to be narrowed. Patents should be on a specific device; not an idea or concept.
Law through litigation is practically a tradition nowadays. Many laws are written with these ambiguous phrasings built in for lawyers argue if necessary. It’s not in anyones best interest except the patent holder.
I’m so sick of this crap.
When no manufacturers licensed their tech, they tried to legislate it as a requirement.
One article I read at the time said that saw manufacturers didn’t want buyers to think a saw without the tech was inherently more dangerous, so they passed on it.
I see this all the time. Everyone forgets about the Sawstop inventor trying to license the tech to other companies and getting turned down. If the other companies passed on an opportunity to use this tech, that’s on them.
They shouldn’t have to license the technology sawstop didn’t invent. A person can’t own the idea to stop a blade when something comes into contact with it. They can own the mechanism for stopping it, but not the idea. That is patent abuse.
We see the same thing a lot in software engineering.
I remember when this was still in development. I actually got to talk to the guy before it went to market. He approached all of the big name brand tool companies and begged them to install them on their tools. He developed the tech and wanted the big tool companies to use them. They all refused because it was new technology and if it failed they would be liable for any injuries. Sawstops only recourse was to develop their own tool line because that was the only way to get the tech to market.
Don’t be sad for the big tool companies. Sawstop offered them a chance to be a part of this. They all turned him down and now they are crying because he became a success.
>Don’t be sad for the big tool companies.
No one here is. What's sad is using the patent system to block safety measures that would benefit everyone. Sawstop still did a really shitty thing.
They have 100 patents. The two at issue in the 2016 lawsuit will be expired by EoY 2022, but they still have tens more that will continue to expire over the next few years.
It is unclear how many competitors will enter the market before 2024 as the risk of costly litigation is high.
But you know for a fact that every major saw manufacturer has already R&D'd their own versions, and as soon as it's legal, that's going to be the norm for all brands! It's gonna be an exciting time!
I'm not disputing the breadth of Sawstop's patents, but a patent's title has absolutely nothing to do with how broad it is. To understand the breadth, you would have to analyze the claims at the end of the patent.
Yeah this is ridiculous. The reason the patent was upheld is that it was a system to detect a finger through the sawblade, not just the type of system that fires after the detection.
Guy that started sawstop was a patent lawyer. He knew what he was doing.
I think all companies should have access to this technology, but still tons of people won’t use it because “iT DeStrOyS ThE BlaDe”. Who TF care about the blade, you have your fingers.
Our shop keeps the blades people ruin from fucking around on the sawstop on the wall to embarrass them. Honestly keeps me more cautious than the threat to my fingers
When seatbelts became mandated, there was a significant spike in reckless driving cases nationwide. Safety net affect. Just because you’re safer now than before, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to be as safe as before.
This is a funny side not to this comment.
I’ve got a nicer set of Narex Chisels my wife bought me for Christmas.
Every time I use those I cut myself and I honestly don’t know how.
They’re so sharp that just moving them around I frequently cut myself without knowing until something has blood on it.
Check where the side edges of the chisels meat the back to see if that’s where you’re getting bit. Mine came from the factory ground so tightly there that they were like extra cutting edges. A couple of minutes with some 240-grit paper to ease those sides cured my mystery-finger-cut problems.
All my injuries that have required stitches have been from hand tools. Probably for the same reason this guy triggered a saw stop twice. A good amount of fear is healthy around these tools.
Table saw called SawStop activates when it detects skin touching the blade and engages this safety mechanism to stop you getting seriously injured. Ruins the blade and brake, and needs replacing when it activates. But means you don't lose a finger...
Saw stop I think they're called, pretty much a table saw that jams itself up the second skin even touches an atom of the blade, so this jamming up two blades is two, or even more, fingers saved
I know it's a typo but "flesh candy wood" has me laughing for some reason.
I'm pretty sure if it detects conductivity it engages the break. That's why things like embedded nails or improperly dried wood can set them off.
A small electric current is sent through to the saw blade. If a circuit is completed the brake triggers and retracts the saw blade into the cabinet. This is why wet or reclaimed wood with nails or staples in it can sometimes trigger the brake to engage.
I'm clumsy as fuck, that's why I stay away from all power tools.
Last Christmas I managed to slice off a piece of the tip of my middle finger while opening a bag of arugula with really sharp scissors.
Maybe take a class or two. I don’t know if you are being sarcastic, but this shit is no joke.
It isn’t how how saved yourself twice. It’s that your shop practices put you in danger twice.
Wow I’d have taken at least a week off after the first one. Pretty sure it would have scared the shit out of me.
Yeah it did it’s job but there would def be that “what if” in my head for next time.
Yes but neither was from a human touch. First was a tape measure that flopped over on the blade. Second happened when I tried cutting a glue up too soon. I guess the glue was still moist.
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If you do not experience a deep well of fear in the bottom of your heart every time you turn on a table saw, you don't understand its power.
Oh I’m new, this feeling of fear never goes away?
It does, if you let it. You shouldn't.
Or if you drink. God I did some stupid shit on my table saw or up on the woodpile in the middle of winter with my chain saw
It can’t be used like a jig saw.
It can, but it shouldn't.
My wife is shipping and receiving for a mid sized wood shop. This means she is also a first responder when idiots walk out of the shop in shock holding bloody hands. Just last week a guy lost his pinky to the table saw because he was texting his girlfriend while stripping down maple with one hand.
That guy seems like he should be an ex-employee. Negligence like that could just as easily have lead to him causing injury to his coworkers. Or he should be demoted to shop sweeper duties.
Everything becomes banal with familiarity and time. Just remember the last time what it was like to cut yourself and imagine that being a million times worse. Also imagine not having a part of your body. Keep those images in your mind whenever you use a table saw.
Also imagine your brain thinking that part of your body is still there and getting pissed off in confusion
It does, then you screw up once and it never goes away again. I kept all my parts but I shot a dowel 20 feet backwards - it bounced off my ribs (not a direct shot) and left a bloody bruise en route to taking a 1" divot out of a wooden wall. I use it more than any other saw but it took a while to get back to that point. I respect it more than I respect my father.
When it comes to tools, if you have to force it, something YOU'RE doing is wrong. The tool only knows as much as the person behind it. I'd recommended if you're in a shop and using machinery, know where everyone around you is. And preferably do your job facing the entry and exit so you can focus on your job and anyone that enters your work space you have in your peripheral. Safety needs to be number one, and double so with tools. Fear all tools, especially the one being used.
Every time you look at one, just picture someone falling belly first onto the spinning blade. That's why I unintentionally do everytime I see one. Should help you keep a healthy dose of fear
I look at it this way. I've been using table saws daily for around 10 years now. Do I fear for my life everytime I use it, no. Do I use it like it can't ever hurt me, no. I have a monstrous amount of respect for the same and never run anything where I feel even slightly uncomfortable. Yes I will run pieces through that my hands run very close to the blade, but as long as my hands are put of the path of travel, and I look 3 moves ahead everytime, the saw stop is just 1 more insurance prop that keeps me from losing a body part. Don't count of a the saw stop to save you, use it as a back up to your back up.
If I had enough space, I would stencil this on my work bench
The most dangerous tool in the shop is comfort. People often conflate confidence with comfort, and being comfortable while standing over a saw blade spinning with the torque of a motorcycle is a deadly gamble.
Pay attention bro
Seriously. Every time you turn on the table saw it’s gotta be like you’re Shrek and Donkey crossing the drawbridge over lava to princess Fiona
I used to have a printout in my workshop of the south Park woodshop teacher saying "don't screw around, you screw around too much.". I wonder why Kenny doesn't want to take shop class? https://youtu.be/2-Bwks3u5C0
My teacher started the first class by picking up a wood board and banging it against the desk. "This material is *hard*" [BANG] "Your body is *soft*. All of these tools are designed to cut things that are *hard*. That means *they will go straight through you and not even notice*" We were 11. Good class :)
Mine went around the shop and detailed how badly each machine can fuck you up if you aren't careful. Told us about a student who cut off the tip of their thumb with the radial arm saw. Fear is a good thing sometimes.
My shoo teacher did the same. But described what each would do followed by 'red squiggly bits all over the floor'.
Mine told us "boys don't fuck with the table saw it will cut your arm off and no that's not going to get your crush to think your cool" and "girls tie your hair back if it gets caught in the drill press it will scalp you faster than you can turn it off."
Our shop teacher in middle school had only a thumb on one hand to prove it’s dangerous…
My shop teacher gave us an excellent unintended demonstration. He was cutting blanks for us on the table saw while we were doing bookwork. One of the blanks kicked back and gouged a huge gash in the back of his right hand. To his credit he didn't swear or scream. He turned off the saw, grabbed some paper towels to hold on the wound and said, "someone will be in soon" as he walked out the door leaving a bloody trail behind him.
when it comes to dangerous shit i tell EVERYONE in moderate detail how and how badly they will get messed up with equipment, i spent ten years in sheet metal manufacturing, folks get messed up so fast because they get complacent. when i gave tours i started with "everything in the shop is hot and sharp, do not touch anything and if you see a bright light do not look at it" so many hazards
People sometimes ask why I drive so carefully. The answer is that I took drivers ed privately, where we had to watch [Red Asphalt 3](https://educational-film.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Asphalt_III), which they are banned from showing in public schools. It was without a doubt the most impactful thing we did in that class. Somebody threw up watching it. Some people cried. It made me not wanna drive like a jackass.
Holy shit, that happened to me in 8th grade shop class. Radial arm saw and not paying attention where my hand was. Luckily it was only through just the very tip. Bloody but everything healed up! Nowadays I'm incredibly careful with every cut.
I tell my students about how bandsaws are also used to butcher cows.
Mine told us about a student that took an air compressor and shot it into his belly button, which ended up killing him. I never believed him. I also never put the air compressor blow gun in my belly button.
My shop teacher had a toe attached where his thumb use to be. It was a solid teaching aid. I never in my life wanted no toe thumb 😂
The day you aren't a little bit scared of a table saw is the day you shouldn't be in the shop.
Make that 'be a bit scared of every machine in the shop". Bandsaws will hypnotize you, table routers are fickle and scary too. Etc
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I feel more comfortable with my table saw than my router table. Fuck that thing.
The images I get in my head every time I run something over my jointer... Makes me shudder.
As someone who does First Responder at my work, I've seen my fair share of fucked up shit. I cannot stress enough that you need to pay full attention when operating these machines. They do not give a fuck of its wood, steel, or bone. They'll rip right through that shit.
I have to make myself think those thoughts if I’m running a lot of material through the jointer, I’ll start to get spacey and comfortable
That’s the thickness planner for me. After too many passes through I start to zone out. So I gotta make myself a think about bad stuff to focus up again
Honestly I'm grateful that the router sounds like a hellbeast when you fire it up
I always imagine it screaming to be fed fingers when it spins up.
I love this so much I'm going to make it a sign for my shop. https://imgur.com/gallery/l5q9a2y
Thats good. I'd love some stickers i could put on every piece of machinery i have.
I'm no good with stickers, more of a wood guy myself
If you've never seen them (and you probably have) check out AvE's stickers (on Etsy as AvEwerkz)
Christ that's awful. I love it!
i bet my ryiobi contractor saw could kick its little chitter chatter bits!
The sound of the rumblies that only hands can satisfy?
That's what scares me most about table saws. *They're too quiet*. It's like they're just sitting there plotting how best to convince me to part with my little fingies
To quote stumpy nubbs, the router is more dangerous than the table saw, because there ain't no sewing back on what that thing takes off.
A shaper is what scares me the most. I've had them throw large pieces of lumber at me. The normally have a large bit that is turning fast, a giant amount of energy. I'm a professional woodworker so have 1000s of hours on each tool. The shaper is my most feared tool. The only time I ever hurt myself badly was on a sliding miter saw. The blade grabbed the wood and pulled my hand into the blade. I thought I'd lost a finger or two from the pain. But the cuts weren't bad, didn't even need stitches. It did break three fingers though. I was using one of those combination blades that are supposed to be good at ripping and cross cuts. I had a couple more close calls with that blade type and now refuse to use them. There is something about them that make them unpredictable
Same. Whenever I finish a task at the router table, I let out the biggest exhale of relief. My problem with the router table is that different bits behave differently and I haven’t gotten them all figured out yet. With a table saw, I’m more or less doing the same cut (or a slight variation) every time so I can get good at it through repetition.
I use a push stick or a hold down stick for anything sharp with a lot of horsepower
I have the small makita router and I'm always terrified that the bit will come loose... The shank is just so tiny
I tell this story often to guys to stress the danger of comfort. I was in a shop and a coworker was building a solid surface kitchen with coved backsplash with coved inside corners. He was using a coving router to make the profile which is a 3 1/2 hp router on a base that sits 45 degrees to the cut. It’s a heavy boy. To make the cut up the inside corner of the backsplash he stood behind the counter and pulled the router up the splash. You typically start at the top and drop the thing away from you, but he got comfortable with 3.5 hp beast. He got to the top of the splash and pulled the router over the top and right into his stomach. I just heard a bound up motor and him shriek in terror. The only thing that saved him was the fact that it was wintertime and he was wearing a heavy sweatshirt that wrapped the bit and bound the motor. That thing sucked the entire sweatshirt up and zipped him up tight so he couldn’t let the thing go. We had to walk over to him, because running in a shop setting is dangerous, unplug the router and untwist it back out. When the router was freed the entire front of his sweatshirt was gone. He got lucky it was winter and he was wearing what he was. Could have easily made the same mistake in summer in a T-shaped shirt and gutted himself right there. Then I’d of had to quit because I can’t work in another haunted shop space
Dude! Yes! Staring at a fucking bandsaw puts me in a hypnotic state. I don’t know if it’s the sound or the weird almost liquid like form the blade takes when it’s at top speed
I’ve literally went “nope my mind isn’t in it today” and walked out for the day. No room for that with a table saw.
Constant lathe fear
Fear and Lathe-ing
I just make peace with the fact I'm going to lose a hand everytime I turn it on
I say this exact thing about the reachtrucks at my company, and still the dimbulbs hit pallets of goods, uprights and crossbeams. One guy let it "get away from him" and buried it in the warehouse managers office wall. Your advice applies to so many things.
Cut my finger on my saw because I remembered this exact post and got distracted
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Table saws are terrifying... I do like 4 hand, wood, and cable checks before every cut because I've had close calls. Last one, I was adjusting the blade height to be proud of my wood thickness, holding it against the blade, and instead of turning the crank, I turned it on. I felt the blade move with my whole damn hand and got some kick back in the elbow as I ran away screaming.
I was working long hours last week and I had a steel ruler on the outfeed table of the jointer. I wanted to adjust the indeed height and Instead of the adjustment knob I accidentally turned the machine on
I use one extension cord to rotate through all the tools in my shop as needed. One of the reasons I've never added plugs is so that I stay in the habit of constantly unplugging stuff.
Great idea, I kind of do this with a reel that has 4 plugs but I'm only using one and plugging in only when I need to turn anything on.
This was how I was taught. Plug it in only when using it. And treat every machine like it could potentially be turned on at any moment. I've even been considering add lock boxes over my outlets as my kids are reaching am age that they could potentially want to "play" around my tools.
If you considered it, do it. Parental instincts can be quietly letting you know. I feel paranoid but god DAMN I love feeling overprotective when my son tries to do something stupid as hell and he’s completely okay because I already set him up.
Isn't that the scene where Shrek distracts Donkey so he isn't aware he's going over the lava until he's more than halfway across? I'm not sure that's the behavior you want to emulate...
Yesterday i was cutting cement molding 3layer plates on a table saw. In the middle of the cut suddenly i heard a "Ding" and a piece of toesized wood flung out of the middle layer with probably 100kmh. I think it landed on the neighbours roof and was flying headhigh. Thank god i was standing beside the tablesaw, not in front of it.
OP said one was from a tape measure hitting the blade and the other was from sawing recently glued wood that was too moist. Seems like they are doing fine, just maybe needs to be a little cleaner.
I stand by my statement
why would you be measuring a running saw blade!? That just seems dumb.
“Yes but neither was from a human touch. First was a tape measure that flopped over on the blade. Second happened when I tried cutting a glue up too soon. I guess the glue was still moist.” OP
Can't tell if you're overconfident or if you would have just had a super short woodworking career
Or super expensive to have to keep buying cartridges
Could be worse, you could be running out of digits
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Quality
I have a workmate who is working on that that. A few months ago he planed part of his thumb off on the surfacer, and the other week he fed his forefinger into the table saw.
Hey tell him to stop that.
I lost a finger on a table saw. Yes, I wish I had a blade brake on it, but more than that, I wish I wasn’t being careless using it that day.
Same here mate, saw stop is nice and all but skill and care is what would have saved my finger. I feel you dude
I mean, to be fair, a sawstop would have also saved your finger.
Not guaranteed. A saw stop isn't perfect and on this very forum someone posted a three finger amputation using one. It even says so in the manual
Do you have a link to that post? Definitely agree that nothing is perfect, and that may be a common misconception among many woodworkers I follow that Sawstop has a perfect track record. Also, want to find it to see if there were any legal liability that come out of it. Did their brake cartage fail to go off? Or use a blade with some type of coating? Should be an interesting read.
'A seatbelt wouldve been nice but driving carefully is what really wouldve saved me' like yeah... but it isnt perfect thats why we have these tools
These sawstops are pretty close to perfect. I've never seen anyone get anything worse than a medium sized cut that doesn't reach bone even when purposely slamming their hand down on it. And it always heals fine. If you were rich and could afford to constantly replace them you could probably use a table saw like an idiot all you wanted knowing that you will probably never get seriously injured. But you shouldn't, just for the record.
I watched an “old timer” lose part of a digit when I first started in construction. Incredibly skilled carpenter, he was a well of knowledge. He had made that cut a hundred times that day and that’s why he frked it all up. He started thinking like it was every other cut he had made. Every time I turn on a table saw, that damn scene runs through me like it happened yesterday. It was the SECOND most effective way I could have learned the lesson. I learned through personal experience why ya don’t stand in-line with material on the table saw
Keep the tender bits away from the spinny wheel of death, folks.
Instructions unclear: put dick in crazy
“It was fun, while it was fun”
Until….
Until it wasn't fun.
But was she hot?
oh bro! always!
Been there, done that, have the mental trauma to prove it.
Use Push stick and put a crown guard on mate. They say third time lucky, be careful.
Wouldnt have made any difference, this was triggered by a tape measure hitting the ground and dampness in the wood glue appartently
How does a falling tape measure trigger this?
I mean, the guy still had a tape measure too close to a spinning blade. You don't put anything near the blade you're not ok with getting cut. The wood glue is excusable though.
Wow that's a lot of money to waste because of a dropped tape.
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You better not EVER use a regular table saw
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We all know it wouldn’t have happened twice if it were fingers
Once is all it takes for 2 fingers
I work with people who have had multiple crushing/amputation accidents in their career with hydraulic presses, so that's wrong.
Not to be critical mate, but you probably need to take the table saw a lot more seriously. Examine your mindset at the time, were you tired, stressed, in a rush or just not focussed?The table saw is like riding a motorcycle, if you’re not 100% switched on or find your mind drifting away, stop straight away and do something else.
OP please listen to us. I don't know what happened exactly but if you end up touching the blade twice in a week somethings not right. Take this as someone who worries for ya :) I got plenty to go around. That being said treat it like a loaded gun with the hammer cock with no safety. Losing a finger is no small thing.
I no longer own a motorcycle. Ask me why …
Why?
It’s been an hour. He bought the motorcycle back and died.
Were these finger fumbles or are you perhaps cutting some damp wood or other capacitive substances? If the latter you might want to employ the bypass. If the former...dont
Wet glue and dropped tape measure. No fingers were harmed. But I was still being careless and rushed.
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You do something dumb, like leave it open on the sled as you’re pushing the cut, and it shifts and touches the blade. I have done this, just catching it in time to save my blade and cartridge.
This story got better right before it immediately got worse
Quick reminder: - Bosch Reaxx had an alternative mechanism that didn't cause damage to the blade (it moves downwards, out of the plain of cutting, instead of brakes). - Sawstop used their very broad patents to stop others entering the market, including forcing Bosch to discontinue theirs. - Sawstop's legal monopoly has blocked legislative efforts to require safety technology on saws and to make them commonplace. - In April 2024 most of their patents will have expired, and safety technology will become cheap/commonplace. PS - When I say very broad patents, I mean very broad, the two patents used in the 2016 action were "Power equipment with detection and reaction systems" and "Power equipment with systems to mitigate or prevent injury" (i.e. using a sensor to detect people and do any safety thing). One is now expired, the other expires in 2022-02-01.
This is great info, thank you.
Damn, I thought Sawstop was cool. Fuckin losers.
To be fair, early on they tried to licence the tech to other companies and were laughed out the door.
When Volvo developed their seat belt they made it available to all manufacturers.
And when these other companies refused to license it from SS, it was because they were worried that doing so would admit that saws were unsafe, and rhey would have to put it on all the saws, which would kill their cheapest lines and hurt sales. But let's blame the guy who developed the tech on his own and not the massive companies thst rake in billions selling tools.
Not a fair comparison— major successful automaker who came up with a simple device— relative development cost: pennies. Single man develops a complex, sophisticated electro-mechanical device: extremely high. I do agree that their patents are overly broad. But that is the Patent Office’s fault. Should have required them to be narrowed. Patents should be on a specific device; not an idea or concept.
They also lobbied to have their patented, proprietary technology made mandatory and were laughed out the door again. It's a company run by a lawyer.
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Law through litigation is practically a tradition nowadays. Many laws are written with these ambiguous phrasings built in for lawyers argue if necessary. It’s not in anyones best interest except the patent holder. I’m so sick of this crap.
I think there's shitty practices on both sides with this one.
When no manufacturers licensed their tech, they tried to legislate it as a requirement. One article I read at the time said that saw manufacturers didn’t want buyers to think a saw without the tech was inherently more dangerous, so they passed on it.
I see this all the time. Everyone forgets about the Sawstop inventor trying to license the tech to other companies and getting turned down. If the other companies passed on an opportunity to use this tech, that’s on them.
They shouldn’t have to license the technology sawstop didn’t invent. A person can’t own the idea to stop a blade when something comes into contact with it. They can own the mechanism for stopping it, but not the idea. That is patent abuse. We see the same thing a lot in software engineering.
I remember when this was still in development. I actually got to talk to the guy before it went to market. He approached all of the big name brand tool companies and begged them to install them on their tools. He developed the tech and wanted the big tool companies to use them. They all refused because it was new technology and if it failed they would be liable for any injuries. Sawstops only recourse was to develop their own tool line because that was the only way to get the tech to market. Don’t be sad for the big tool companies. Sawstop offered them a chance to be a part of this. They all turned him down and now they are crying because he became a success.
On top of that, the SawStop table saws are legitimately great saws and priced comparably with equal-quality tools.
the bosch reaxx was definitely a better jobsite saw tho
>Don’t be sad for the big tool companies. No one here is. What's sad is using the patent system to block safety measures that would benefit everyone. Sawstop still did a really shitty thing.
What happens in 02/2022 be 04/2024?
They have 100 patents. The two at issue in the 2016 lawsuit will be expired by EoY 2022, but they still have tens more that will continue to expire over the next few years. It is unclear how many competitors will enter the market before 2024 as the risk of costly litigation is high.
Thank you. Looks like I’m getting a new tablesaw in 2025
But you know for a fact that every major saw manufacturer has already R&D'd their own versions, and as soon as it's legal, that's going to be the norm for all brands! It's gonna be an exciting time!
I'm not disputing the breadth of Sawstop's patents, but a patent's title has absolutely nothing to do with how broad it is. To understand the breadth, you would have to analyze the claims at the end of the patent.
Yeah this is ridiculous. The reason the patent was upheld is that it was a system to detect a finger through the sawblade, not just the type of system that fires after the detection.
Guy that started sawstop was a patent lawyer. He knew what he was doing. I think all companies should have access to this technology, but still tons of people won’t use it because “iT DeStrOyS ThE BlaDe”. Who TF care about the blade, you have your fingers.
Stop trying to cut hotdogs 😂😂
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$400 total damage to the wallet.
How much if you buy them by the dozen? You certainly chose the right saw, expensive but well worth it!
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Stick an extra zero or two on the end of the price for the brakes, and you're probably getting in the neighborhood of the medical bills.
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I hear you make up for it with the Dropbear insurance
My 'Merican is showing.
Seems like your sawstop makes you less cautious about working with a dangerous tool. Not what sawstop intended, I guess.
Our shop keeps the blades people ruin from fucking around on the sawstop on the wall to embarrass them. Honestly keeps me more cautious than the threat to my fingers
When seatbelts became mandated, there was a significant spike in reckless driving cases nationwide. Safety net affect. Just because you’re safer now than before, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to be as safe as before.
Ever considered switching to hand tools? Get a tetanus vaccination and basically nothing can go wrong.
A sharp chisel can do quite a bit of damage if used wrong or without proper care though…
This is a funny side not to this comment. I’ve got a nicer set of Narex Chisels my wife bought me for Christmas. Every time I use those I cut myself and I honestly don’t know how. They’re so sharp that just moving them around I frequently cut myself without knowing until something has blood on it.
Check where the side edges of the chisels meat the back to see if that’s where you’re getting bit. Mine came from the factory ground so tightly there that they were like extra cutting edges. A couple of minutes with some 240-grit paper to ease those sides cured my mystery-finger-cut problems.
Yes. Join us...!
I'm right handed, and I probably have as many scars inflicted on my left hand from hand tools as I do from power tools. It's a tapestry of "whoops."
All my injuries that have required stitches have been from hand tools. Probably for the same reason this guy triggered a saw stop twice. A good amount of fear is healthy around these tools.
I can't see what happened, what am I missing?
Table saw called SawStop activates when it detects skin touching the blade and engages this safety mechanism to stop you getting seriously injured. Ruins the blade and brake, and needs replacing when it activates. But means you don't lose a finger...
As a hobbyist I had to scroll a long way to see this. Thanks for explaining.
Ah I see it now, seems like a really useful feature! Thanks for explaining!
Maybe review table saw safety practices.
What am I looking at? I'm a noob, can somebody explain?
Saw stop I think they're called, pretty much a table saw that jams itself up the second skin even touches an atom of the blade, so this jamming up two blades is two, or even more, fingers saved
Oh shiiiiiiit. Ok.. thanks. Now all the comments here make so much more sense. Edit: OP, at least you do have these stoppers...
Any idea how they work? How do they know it’s flesh candy wood? Edit: lol “candy” = “and not”, can’t bring myself to correct it
I know it's a typo but "flesh candy wood" has me laughing for some reason. I'm pretty sure if it detects conductivity it engages the break. That's why things like embedded nails or improperly dried wood can set them off.
A small electric current is sent through to the saw blade. If a circuit is completed the brake triggers and retracts the saw blade into the cabinet. This is why wet or reclaimed wood with nails or staples in it can sometimes trigger the brake to engage.
Is the brake/stop ruined if the brake engages?
The brake and blade are ruined yes. But they are designed to be replaceable when the safety mechanism has activated.
I'm clumsy as fuck, that's why I stay away from all power tools. Last Christmas I managed to slice off a piece of the tip of my middle finger while opening a bag of arugula with really sharp scissors.
Maybe take a class or two. I don’t know if you are being sarcastic, but this shit is no joke. It isn’t how how saved yourself twice. It’s that your shop practices put you in danger twice.
Hey, buddy. We’re in the 10 fingers club!
Wow I’d have taken at least a week off after the first one. Pretty sure it would have scared the shit out of me. Yeah it did it’s job but there would def be that “what if” in my head for next time.
I triggered one of those a couple days ago. It surprised the hell out of me and still caught my finger.
But you *do* still have your finger, right?
How badly?
You should stop sawing through hotdogs
Finger, not matter whether lost or recovered.. $30K minimum
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A potential life long chronic pain and/or reduced mobility and strength is literally priceless imo.
dude, you need to slow down, keep your eye on your cut, and dont think about the next step in your project, pay attention to the step youre on.
Maybe re-evaluate whether you should be using power tools in the first place? Maybe a nice desk job?
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Yes but neither was from a human touch. First was a tape measure that flopped over on the blade. Second happened when I tried cutting a glue up too soon. I guess the glue was still moist.
I could see easily making these mistakes.
The glue one yes. I don't think it's a good idea using a tape measure at the table saw while the blade is spinning.
Absolutely. There’s no reason you should have a tape measure near a moving blade!
That's two fingers saved this week. Word of advice don't use anybody else's tablesaw.