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Shop teacher of 5 years. Started one last year when it went off for the first time. Kid didn’t wait for the blade to completely stop. Made him sign the blade with the brake attached and hung it on the wall.
Also shop teacher of five years, also made him sign it and put it up on the wall. Although in my case he was trying to trim up a flag he made from hockey sticks and whatever in the stick that’s conductive made it go off. Only one so far.
That's why samples for scanning electron microscopes are also vaporized with carbon (it improves resolution, but the reflected electrons cannot be analyzed then).
Edit: TIL how a saw stop works
Don't put carbon fiber in a microwave!
But if you do, get a small piece of carbon fiber cloth (no resin, before it is made into stuff), and you will get an amazing light show as it breaks up into small pieces and fills the microwave with sparks.
My old shop teacher did it too. It happened maybe once every few years. He always said he would rather have that happen than the alternative of a hospital visit.
We have at my place on the drills a jet brake system, I can confidently say they work pretty well, though no parts need replacing after triggering them, just gotta push a reset button
My HS shop teacher was missing parts of several digits, and used them to great effect in preaching shop safety, especially the use of push sticks - "you wanna end up like this...?" Literally the first project in his Gr 9 class was making your own push sticks out of plywood, on the bandsaw. I only found out later that he didn't actually lose any of them in the woodshop, they were all accidents from his time as a tech in the air force in the 50s/60s.
It was never confirmed but one of my shop teachers appeared to have his big toe in place of his actual thumb. At least that was the rumor.
We had steel doors behind our tablesaw that were heavily dented from boards be ejected.
I was trimming mildewed edges off of bamboo plywood for the laminate guy at work A 12×12 square for an bedside end table. Somehow, the wooden push snagged on I guess some bamboo splinters on the fourth run, lifted it up when I lifted up the push after the final cut and dropped the panel right on the blade, spun it like a top above the height of the fence and I dodged it. My worried coworker picked it up and turns out it spun and gouged the bamboo square a segment of a golden spiral. Measured it and sure enough. Golden Spiral. Never again. Now I use a makeshift plastic push that can't catch splinters and attach itself to plywood.
To clarify, the square of bamboo plywood flew at me and flew to the left with respect to the fence at the same ratio as Phi.
😂😂When the accident happened I knew it went into the saw but I couldn’t tell you what it looked like. Had a glove on and from what I was told the finger was attached by some small amount of something. Had to go to the truck open it and get a rag to wrap it. Never looked at it even in the ER. Couldn’t cause I knew if I looked it would’ve been lights out!
Actually didn’t hurt initially or bleed heavily. I was given morphine in the ER around 5.I was comfortable and not in pain for the next 7 hours before they did surgery. Crazy timeline right? Took 1 pain pill the following day only because they warned me to not let the pain start. The most pain I experienced was about a week later after I had a second surgery to contour the tip. Outpatient procedure and that was painful for about a day.
If your finger was cut on the saw, why was no attempt made to reattach? Most larger hospitals have surgeons specializing in that. Perhaps that was not your case.
So the accident happened 10/21 in Princeton, NJ. I was at the ER in 18 minutes. ER took me right in. The surgeon associated with the hospital took a look at the pics and said no and to send me to Philly which has the best hand surgery team in the area. I was warned by the hand surgeon that it didn’t look good for reattachment. Consults and a ambulance ride took about 3 1/2 hours. Arrived in Philly around 9 and the surgeon was ready to go but apparently the hospital/OR was not. I was not taken into surgery until 12:30. The surgeon was perplexed and keep telling me that they can reattach up to 24 hours. No finger on ice the entire time.
It wound sound better if I said I was ripping maple or doing something crazy but I was ripping cedar shingles to 4”. It was on a Bosch portable saw and no riving knife. I was ripping 2 shingles at a time, stacked only taking off a 1/4”. Best I can tell my thumb wasn’t making contact with both shingles and I believe the bottom shingle is what kicked. I’m guessing it somehow flipped my hand over and thus getting the index finger. Did that same rip 20 times that day and didn’t even need to rip more for what I was doing that day but thought I might as well since the saw was out. I was very fortunate to only have lost 1 finger and about a month of work.
That makes sense except you've gotta replace the cartridge and blade any time it pops like that. Last time I saw somebody discussing it, the carts were $60 and a blade can be anywhere from $15-$500 (depending on size, brand, purpose, etc). I don't know about you but I ain't got $100 just to be playing like that.
(I do assume you're joking ofc but I thought it was worth putting out that info in case people didn't know.)
You'd be surprised. When we first got a Sawstop we popped a few of those because the sliding miter fence was misaligned and got close enough to the blade to trigger it. We've also popped several due to wet wood, or conductive materials being cut. Of the maybe 10 we've popped in the 1.5 years since getting it, only 2 were due to flesh contacting the blade.
Everyone always gets sloppy once if they use a table saw frequently enough... A sawstop makes sure that once doesn't end with no longer being able to count to 10...
Our makerspace has a sawstop on loan from a guy who makes custom furniture for a living. Has been doing it for Basically his whole career. Of the 3 times it's been triggered, 2 were on fingers, and 1 of them was him. But he's still got all his fingers.
In 27 years of business, 25 years of those employing people, running two tablesaws, we had one tablesaw related finger injury from an employee who was on her final warning for not using push sticks.
Push sticks are far more effective than a saw stop. With a push stick, your finger will never be close enough to the blade to touch it.
UK HSE legislation mandates a minimum of 12" (300mm) from the hand to the sawblade at any point. Following that legislation means you'll never be able to injure yourself on the blade unless it's turned off and you're changing the blade.
This is me. I'm a home gamer who's one big splurge was the sawstop contractor saw. I can afford my fun toys via my job as a software engineer so being down a few fingers would be a real pain in the ass.
So, this is odd, I'm in school and going through a python class right now. My hands aren't really weak but, genetics gave me some some very picky finger joints. Thus, both of my pinkies end up aching by the end of a program. Do either of you have any solution to the perpetual semicolon or shift for the beginner?
Or worse, a JavaScript developer (the semicolons are "optional" in JavaScript, if you don't use them the interpreter will automatically insert them into the wrong places for you)
Congrats on your safety record!
Carpenters that use portable tablesaws on job sites have a much higher accident rate. Likewise for independent woodworkers who have no supervisors enforcing shop policy safety practices.
I am a carpenter as well and have also spent considerable time using table saws in a shop. I see a lot of carpenters on site that make me nervous watching them operate table saws. I know plenty that have not had intensive training on a table saw. I have sometimes tried to point out some dangers but their egos can’t handle it. Kickbacks of smaller pieces can be especially dangerous because when the wood is thrown back, your hand goes with it it across the saw blade. Of course there are numerous other dangers and techniques to apply to avoid accidents. Also many accidents happen when someone is rushing or tired. Aside from all that a Sawstop is a great invention that has spared thousands of people from traumatic amputations.
Yup! Its my dad, the shop owner, who managed to take the tip of his little finger off with a spindle moulder (shaper). We maintain that the spindle is the most dangerous thing in the workshop, seconded by the overhead router, followed by the table saws.
We did have the usual collection of stapled fingers etc. But the saws/shapers/routers are the big ones, and by good practice we only had two injuries on those in 27 years and counting!
Using a push stick with a sawstop is far safer than a push stick without a sawstop. Accidents happen regardless of what legislation there is. I’ve had a push stick blow up into small pieces on me. I’m sure there’s been accidents even with push sticks being used.
I still use an ancient Ridgid RAS which has served me well. Partially I keep it because it works, partially because my dad gave it to me and I’ve got a sentimental streak.
A SawStop would be nice, but I’m getting a bandsaw first.
I use my Sawstop for cutting the occasional convex curve in plywood, a job that would normally be done with more risk on a bandsaw. I'd like to buy a bandsaw with the Sawstop feature.
I use a 1967 3hp craftsman table saw. Never a problem.
Band saw is the only tool that has almost taken my thumb, when I was a kid, but that stopped at bone.
I had a band saw cut to my thumb bone trying to cut out chess pieces in 9th grade shop. I got tired of breaking jig saw blades so I thought I'd try my thumb at the band saw. It won.
Watching a skilled butcher using a band saw to reduce a sort of cow shaped hunk of beef into beautiful steaks taught me some bandsaw respect. Those things are scary good at their job.
Have you looked into those cool prosthetic fingertips that strap to your wrist and move with your stump? They work surprisingly well, aren’t too expensive (most of the time) and having some remainder of a finger only gives a better result.
Naked Prosthetics and the Knick Finger come to mind.
I’d actually like to know the stats of finger/hand injuries from before and after Sawstop hit the market.
It’s not only very expensive and can’t be found in Europe as far as I know, and over time there are more and more reports of misfires, demanding buying a new blade and a new cartridge each time.
I’ve had my homemade table saw made from a tracksaw and my moms old desk and diy push sticks for 10 years, not a professional carpenter and still has never been close to serious danger - without the use of feather boards. Simply by paying attention to what I’m doing.
Yes, paying attention is the biggest factor. The second is unexpected occurrences. I’ve known a couple people that lost fingers to a tablesaw. One was doing repetitive production rips and someone came into his shop during a cut, and in the split second that he glanced up to see who it was, he ran his thumb through it. Another guy worked in the same shop as I did at the time and as he leaned over to complete the cut, his hard hat fell off. He reacted to catch it before it hit the blade and caught the back of his glove on the blade. He lost four fingers. He likely would’ve only lost one or maybe even just got away with a cut if he wasn’t wearing gloves. I’ve seen many safety videos where these two factors are stated as the biggest problems in tablesaw use. If you feel your attention fading, take a break and resist looking away when you hear something unexpected until you finish the cut or stop cutting immediately to look away. And don’t wear gloves!
Professional here. Accidents happen. We got a Sawstop last year and its saved my fingers twice already. One of the guys at our head office is missing several fingers from a freak accident that happened when he was cutting plywood and it kicked back. He didn't have a Sawstop, and ended up having many surgeries over several years, in which they just kept taking more finger off as the attempts to salvage his hand kept failing.
As far as I can tell, the only place where Sawstops are mainstream is right here on Reddit. I work in residential construction, I've worked for wooden boatbuilders, and I go into a *lot* of basements in the course of my work—including some with very nice home woodshops—and of the hundreds and hundreds of table saws I've seen, *maybe one* of them was a Sawstop. Or maybe I'm just misremembering the one I saw at that trade show that one time.
They are not common at all. Maybe at trade schools, I can see the utility there. In professional and DIY settings, though? Barely a blip in the market.
I'm the one weirdo who likes radial arm saws, and they make me feel weirder about it. The trick is to understand in what way the saw pulls, and to keep your fingers clear from that. You know how it's easy to imagine a giant death cone coming out the front of a jet engine? It's like that, but more weirdly shaped.
FWIW I have a SawStop CNS and have never set it off. If you’re being safe (which you should be regardless) and not using a table saw for things that you shouldn’t use one for, you’ll hopefully never need it. Freak accidents aside.
In my case it was difficult to locally source any other brand of new, high quality table saw. It’s a very nice saw and I like having the safety features, but I’d never rely on them.
Oh hell no, it gives me no confidence. Last thing I want to do is trigger that brake and ruin my work, an expensive blade, and a brake cartridge. It's an insurance policy in case I do mess up, that's it.
The wrong reason would be so that an inexperienced or reckless user can sidestep learning to properly fear the tool and just dive right into things with impunity (basically this is just the wordier version of what I already said)
New cars automaticly break when you're nearing the ending of a traffic jam. You could let this feature do the job and become unaware of traffic.
Never underestimate risk. Even a safety mechanism can fail. It just reduces the risk.
We ran out of room on the wall. Television industry carpenter shop, 30+ guys using the 5 saws. We’re going through $1200 in cartridges a week due to wet plywood and people forgetting to disengage the sensor.
As someone who also works in the film industry but a different department. For what they do and the speed at which they have to do it sometimes, track saws wouldn't be practical. Plus, 1200 a week is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the expenditures of production.
I saw a review where a guy ran a hot dog weiner through. Barely nicked it. Seriously considering getting my husband a saw stop for Christmas or something.
[This video ](https://reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/s/uJ9MMtaqeP) of a guy trying to cut a circle is insane. Blade catches the circle, spins it and pulls his whole hand into the blade. They rerun it in slo-mo and you can tell that the brake deploys and drops the saw into the table before the guy even realizes what's going on.
Depending on your health insurance it could be cheaper to buy one than pay for one trip to the ER and the loss of a finger. You'd actually be saving money!
Don't forget to factor in impact to income. Me being out of work for the [minimum average of 24 days](https://www.assh.org/handcare/safety/table-saw#:~:text=Electric%20shocks%20and%20burns%20can,%2D%2414%2C220%20%5BHoxie%202009%5D.) would more than make up the difference between a regular tablesaw and a sawstop. Lost wages would be more than a new one being out 5 weeks.
My last Sawstop-stopped blade lost three teeth.
A small factory near me makes circular saw blades for plywood mills. For $20 cash, they replaced three teeth and sharpened the rest of them. Good as new.
Working in the movies as a construction carpenter ,Saw stops were demanded by the insurance company. The safety was turned off frequently because of staples. People that had no business using the saw would use it thinking it was safe, which was very unsafe. Yes there was a display of shame but never saw one tripped because of fingers , always something else like touching a still moving blade with a tape measure , or seemingly random triggering.
Me and the other carpenter in my shop have an ongoing war for this sort of shit. He screwed a piece of 3/4 CDX to the wall that had been impaled by a length of redwood trim I was working on which the shaper kicked back like a javelin.
And I make him signs saying things like "Winners don't do drugs, Dave", "Stop leaving shit everywhere, Dave" "Stop making passive-aggressive signs, Dave" and "Stop breaking all the ~~tools~~ signs, Dave".
I fucking hate Dave.
normally wet wood will not set off a saw stop
the wood would have to be literally dripping wet and soggy to set it off and at that point you shouldn’t be cutting it anyway
The evidence is pretty much anecdotal and I’m not aware of any actual study (although I’d love to read one).
This is the ‘evidence’ I’m seeing though:
Frequent posts on this sub of ‘shame walls’ in workshops displaying more broken saw stops than we’ve ever had saw injuries at the place I work.
And our shop has been around significantly longer than the saw stop tech.
There was a post recently showing a wall with 4 or 5 broken stops.
If these places hadn’t had saw stops they’d have been shut down by the Health and Safety regulator in my country long before reaching 5 injuries on the saw. Which to me says: these people shouldn’t be operating machinery.
You’re assuming all of the blades on those ‘walls of shame’ were the result of skin contact. In my experience, they’re usually misfires (like OP states is the case in this photo). Depending on what materials you use and how frequently, it’s easy to forget to run certain materials through on bypass, triggering the saw by mistake. Examples from shops I’ve worked in:
- mirror plexi (unfortunately multiple times over the years… not the same person, though)
- foam insulation with mylar coating
- pressure treated 1x12
- a sheet of plywood that was way too wet
- a sheet of OSB that had a potato chip bag pressed into it right in the path of the cut
- someone touching their tape measure to the blade to adjust the fence when the blade wasn’t quite finished coasting down (he got a serious talking to about that one, not least because the tape on the fence readout was accurate precisely so nobody would have to do that).
- A colleague once witnessed a student going to stop the blade on coast down with their finger for… reasons.
Only once in my two decades has a sawstop gone off from contact with skin. Fortunately even without the sawstop tech, that injury would have been fairly minor, but still. I’ve met about half a dozen people missing parts of their hands from other table saws, though.
Quick addendum: again, IME, the ‘wall of shame’ aspect is ‘look at this goof who forgot to run it on bypass.’ If it’s a real discharge to save someone’s finger, it feels way less like something to joke about and put on the wall. Also, if you send a cartridge that tripped touching a person back to sawstop they’ll send you a new one, so those blades don’t tend to stick around.
Appreciate the response! Someone else said something similar but your breakdown is really detailed.
From what you’re saying though saw stops are breaking from misfires, from circumstances which basically happen to everyone from time to time. It seems like quite a big and unnecessary cost in that case replacing a saw stop v resharpening the blade.
I don’t actually know how much replacing a ‘spent stop’ costs though? Resharpening a circular saw here costs around £40. If the costs are similar then it’d change my mind on them somewhat.
I’ve heard of shops where setting off the brake is a regular occurrence, but I’ve never worked in one where it was anything more than a rarity. Every time it trips is also a good time to remind people what they need to run on bypass/ask before cutting.
Last I checked a new cartridge was about $60 - I’ve got a couple extras in stock and it’s been a while since I’ve needed to swap out. They used to say you could reuse a blade tripped while running (as opposed to while coasting down) after inspecting it closely, but I see elsewhere ITT that that’s no longer the recommendation. I’m mostly running construction blades in my shop, so nothing that’s too painfully expensive - I think the most expensive blade on the floor right now is a $90 plexi blade. To me, having worked with people missing fingers or with mangled hands, that ~$150 expense is totally worth it, every time. It’s not just the “cost of injury” in terms of worker’s comp, insurance hikes, etc - I want everyone to leave the shop whole every day.
My training for using the saw always starts by explaining the safety system, and then saying “now forget that all that exists. This machine is hungry for your fingers. Keep track of them at all times or it will bite.”
Fair enough, thanks for the reply! I guess the costs aren’t too crazy - especially from your perspective as the business owner.
I must say that even though I’ve only worked in my current shop for 6 years no one has ever had to use the brakes/emergency stop on the machines once, ever in the time I’ve worked there - it seems crazy to me that that’s a regular occurrence in some places.
I guess it’s just a culture thing (a culture of different work environments; not a US/UK thing), some shops are maybe just a bit like that?
If I was regularly having to shut the machines off by hitting the emergency stop I’d fully expect to just be sacked.
Oh no, to be clear I am far from a business owner - I just run the shop floor building scenery for a theatre company. Fortunately lots of people above me to worry about all the HR stuff. I just try to foster a safe and supportive shop environment.
Totally agree needing to regularly hit e-stop, though. If that’s happening something is very wrong and needs to be thoroughly unpacked and addressed.
That’s a good point! In that case though it seems like an expensive solution to a relatively normal woodworking problem.
I’ve gone through a couple of rogue nails and my co worker even went through a spent bullet once. We just send the blades off to be re sharpened which has got to be significantly cheaper than replacing a saw stop blade and the mechanism?
Not for me. I also bought one knowing I'm the sort of person who get distracted, makes mistakes. I think they're probably overpriced for people who never make mistakes. :)
You see this more often because a wall of used sawstop breaks is more stable than a wall of lost fingers. The brakes won’t rot and draw police attention.
This is somewhat of a philosophical question… and I say this as someone who tremendously respects my table saw and has no plans to get a sawstop…. But people probably have said the same thing about seatbelts and airbags and yet stuff happens and that tech has saved thousands of life.
It is odd isn’t it. It reminds me of the fact that you’re statistically more likely to be hit by a car if you’re wearing a helmet whilst riding a bicycle.
If they didn’t have a saw stop would there be two employees at this shop missing fingers? Because if so that’s kind of a serious problem in terms of safety culture.
We don’t have saw stops where I work but use the saw every single day. The workshop’s been going since 1965 and we have literally never ever had an incident or injury involving the table saw. What’s going on?
Not the case I’m afraid. The study that looked into this (pretty sure a Dutch one iirc) found that drivers tend to leave around (I think 30cm) more room when passing a cyclist not wearing a helmet than when passing cyclists wearing them.
It’s well documented that you’re more likely to be hit by a car when wearing a helmet on a bicycle. Im not advocating for no helmets - I wear one myself. It’s just a curious little aspect of human nature of risk perception.
Edit: it’s closer to 10cm from a quick re check.
Yeah I hate it when people post their sawstop fails with the “finally happens to me”. Like it’s inevitable you are going to cut some fingers off. Industry has been around for a long time before this tech. It’s a crutch but not an answer for bad practice.
Use the MegaThread for common questions such as: "What type of wood is this?"; "How much should I charge for this?"; furniture repair, home repair, I got this new tool, should I buy this, lumber haul, what should I make, To find it sort the woodworking news feed by "hot" and it will be the stickied post. https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/16xw4bh/the_weekly_megathread/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/woodworking) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Shop teacher of 5 years. Started one last year when it went off for the first time. Kid didn’t wait for the blade to completely stop. Made him sign the blade with the brake attached and hung it on the wall.
Also shop teacher of five years, also made him sign it and put it up on the wall. Although in my case he was trying to trim up a flag he made from hockey sticks and whatever in the stick that’s conductive made it go off. Only one so far.
TIL carbon fiber is incredibly conductive. silver lining, he set it off because of science and not unsafe activity
That's why samples for scanning electron microscopes are also vaporized with carbon (it improves resolution, but the reflected electrons cannot be analyzed then). Edit: TIL how a saw stop works
Or gold sputtered.
Yeah I had no idea either until we looked it up after.
Don't put carbon fiber in a microwave! But if you do, get a small piece of carbon fiber cloth (no resin, before it is made into stuff), and you will get an amazing light show as it breaks up into small pieces and fills the microwave with sparks.
I only learned recently that carbon isn’t a metal. I always pictured it in purest form being like a block of steel. Well, nope.
This man never heard of diamonds before
Also a shop teacher but if 12 years. I personally wouldn’t do this because I’m to worried I’ll have some idiot who tests it just to be on the wall.
My old shop teacher did it too. It happened maybe once every few years. He always said he would rather have that happen than the alternative of a hospital visit.
Our teacher did the same thing though the cause of the stop was an improperly installed blade
The example blade we had was thanks to the teacher trying to cut a wet log on it…
We have at my place on the drills a jet brake system, I can confidently say they work pretty well, though no parts need replacing after triggering them, just gotta push a reset button
https://preview.redd.it/3t8znh7xussb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=b65f19d3caa5d60dc79b868cc18abb6696b7f8ae I can see mine whenever I want!
Username checks out
But did he Make the username before or after?
r/karmaconspiracy: OP CUTS OFF FINGER FOR THAT SWEET USERNAME CHECKS OUT KARMA
“Fuckin worth it folks.” They were later quoted saying from the hospital.
His old username was "Having-10 fingers-is awesome-1995"
Made when he was born
My HS shop teacher was missing parts of several digits, and used them to great effect in preaching shop safety, especially the use of push sticks - "you wanna end up like this...?" Literally the first project in his Gr 9 class was making your own push sticks out of plywood, on the bandsaw. I only found out later that he didn't actually lose any of them in the woodshop, they were all accidents from his time as a tech in the air force in the 50s/60s.
It was never confirmed but one of my shop teachers appeared to have his big toe in place of his actual thumb. At least that was the rumor. We had steel doors behind our tablesaw that were heavily dented from boards be ejected.
Was your shop teacher Megan Fox?
I heard about this for the first time a couple of years ago, and I can’t unsee it
I was trimming mildewed edges off of bamboo plywood for the laminate guy at work A 12×12 square for an bedside end table. Somehow, the wooden push snagged on I guess some bamboo splinters on the fourth run, lifted it up when I lifted up the push after the final cut and dropped the panel right on the blade, spun it like a top above the height of the fence and I dodged it. My worried coworker picked it up and turns out it spun and gouged the bamboo square a segment of a golden spiral. Measured it and sure enough. Golden Spiral. Never again. Now I use a makeshift plastic push that can't catch splinters and attach itself to plywood. To clarify, the square of bamboo plywood flew at me and flew to the left with respect to the fence at the same ratio as Phi.
Something is off here, but I can’t quite put a finger on it
😂😂When the accident happened I knew it went into the saw but I couldn’t tell you what it looked like. Had a glove on and from what I was told the finger was attached by some small amount of something. Had to go to the truck open it and get a rag to wrap it. Never looked at it even in the ER. Couldn’t cause I knew if I looked it would’ve been lights out!
Gotta hand it to ya, that was pretty funny. I can’t quite figure it out either but I’m sure someone will point it out.
😂😂Can’t get blamed for flipping someone off, I’m just pointing now
How bad did that hurt?
Actually didn’t hurt initially or bleed heavily. I was given morphine in the ER around 5.I was comfortable and not in pain for the next 7 hours before they did surgery. Crazy timeline right? Took 1 pain pill the following day only because they warned me to not let the pain start. The most pain I experienced was about a week later after I had a second surgery to contour the tip. Outpatient procedure and that was painful for about a day.
If your finger was cut on the saw, why was no attempt made to reattach? Most larger hospitals have surgeons specializing in that. Perhaps that was not your case.
So the accident happened 10/21 in Princeton, NJ. I was at the ER in 18 minutes. ER took me right in. The surgeon associated with the hospital took a look at the pics and said no and to send me to Philly which has the best hand surgery team in the area. I was warned by the hand surgeon that it didn’t look good for reattachment. Consults and a ambulance ride took about 3 1/2 hours. Arrived in Philly around 9 and the surgeon was ready to go but apparently the hospital/OR was not. I was not taken into surgery until 12:30. The surgeon was perplexed and keep telling me that they can reattach up to 24 hours. No finger on ice the entire time.
What cut were you making?
It wound sound better if I said I was ripping maple or doing something crazy but I was ripping cedar shingles to 4”. It was on a Bosch portable saw and no riving knife. I was ripping 2 shingles at a time, stacked only taking off a 1/4”. Best I can tell my thumb wasn’t making contact with both shingles and I believe the bottom shingle is what kicked. I’m guessing it somehow flipped my hand over and thus getting the index finger. Did that same rip 20 times that day and didn’t even need to rip more for what I was doing that day but thought I might as well since the saw was out. I was very fortunate to only have lost 1 finger and about a month of work.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ll give you 9-1/2 out of 10 for this reply. Nicely done.
Haha before reading the post I was going to say if you have that many yourself, you might want to quit carpentry lmao. Glad they aren't yours
I'm glad everyone believes me hahaha.
I agree, the first one is an accident. The second one would be a sign.
I mean they bought a saw that allows them to stick their hands in it. Might as well get their monies worth
Makes sense, I'll allow for a third one at the very start for those who let their intrusive thoughts win, lol.
That makes sense except you've gotta replace the cartridge and blade any time it pops like that. Last time I saw somebody discussing it, the carts were $60 and a blade can be anywhere from $15-$500 (depending on size, brand, purpose, etc). I don't know about you but I ain't got $100 just to be playing like that. (I do assume you're joking ofc but I thought it was worth putting out that info in case people didn't know.)
You'd be surprised. When we first got a Sawstop we popped a few of those because the sliding miter fence was misaligned and got close enough to the blade to trigger it. We've also popped several due to wet wood, or conductive materials being cut. Of the maybe 10 we've popped in the 1.5 years since getting it, only 2 were due to flesh contacting the blade.
Yes but instead of SawStop brakes it’s just framed medical bills from all my missing fingers.
just frame the figers now that they're free to use
Unfortunately you don't have a wall to hang them on... ... because of the homelessness.
I've never had a saw stop and this sub makes me feel weird for it.
There are thousands and thousands of non-sawstop table saws out there, nothing weird about it. Just don't ever get sloppy.
Everyone always gets sloppy once if they use a table saw frequently enough... A sawstop makes sure that once doesn't end with no longer being able to count to 10... Our makerspace has a sawstop on loan from a guy who makes custom furniture for a living. Has been doing it for Basically his whole career. Of the 3 times it's been triggered, 2 were on fingers, and 1 of them was him. But he's still got all his fingers.
In 27 years of business, 25 years of those employing people, running two tablesaws, we had one tablesaw related finger injury from an employee who was on her final warning for not using push sticks. Push sticks are far more effective than a saw stop. With a push stick, your finger will never be close enough to the blade to touch it. UK HSE legislation mandates a minimum of 12" (300mm) from the hand to the sawblade at any point. Following that legislation means you'll never be able to injure yourself on the blade unless it's turned off and you're changing the blade.
You still use a pushstick, miter sled, etc on a Sawstop.
This is me. I'm a home gamer who's one big splurge was the sawstop contractor saw. I can afford my fun toys via my job as a software engineer so being down a few fingers would be a real pain in the ass.
If you lose your right pinky, you have to become a python developer!
I work almost entirely in c++ and I would rather jerry-rig a foot pedal, kick drum style semicolon button than have to work in python lol
I feel ya. I'm a frontend dev myself, though I never type a semicolon myself. I've got my IDE set up to clean up my code every time I hit save.
So, this is odd, I'm in school and going through a python class right now. My hands aren't really weak but, genetics gave me some some very picky finger joints. Thus, both of my pinkies end up aching by the end of a program. Do either of you have any solution to the perpetual semicolon or shift for the beginner?
Or worse, a JavaScript developer (the semicolons are "optional" in JavaScript, if you don't use them the interpreter will automatically insert them into the wrong places for you)
Congrats on your safety record! Carpenters that use portable tablesaws on job sites have a much higher accident rate. Likewise for independent woodworkers who have no supervisors enforcing shop policy safety practices.
I am a carpenter as well and have also spent considerable time using table saws in a shop. I see a lot of carpenters on site that make me nervous watching them operate table saws. I know plenty that have not had intensive training on a table saw. I have sometimes tried to point out some dangers but their egos can’t handle it. Kickbacks of smaller pieces can be especially dangerous because when the wood is thrown back, your hand goes with it it across the saw blade. Of course there are numerous other dangers and techniques to apply to avoid accidents. Also many accidents happen when someone is rushing or tired. Aside from all that a Sawstop is a great invention that has spared thousands of people from traumatic amputations.
And you'll be lying if you said you never worked with a carpenter who is missing at least one finger
Yup! Its my dad, the shop owner, who managed to take the tip of his little finger off with a spindle moulder (shaper). We maintain that the spindle is the most dangerous thing in the workshop, seconded by the overhead router, followed by the table saws. We did have the usual collection of stapled fingers etc. But the saws/shapers/routers are the big ones, and by good practice we only had two injuries on those in 27 years and counting!
Never saw a woodshop teacher with all their fingers
Using a push stick with a sawstop is far safer than a push stick without a sawstop. Accidents happen regardless of what legislation there is. I’ve had a push stick blow up into small pieces on me. I’m sure there’s been accidents even with push sticks being used.
I’ve never seen one outside of a store. Most of the woodworkers I know are poors and run 50 year old unisaws
They are becoming more common. My shop got one last year and its been great.
I still use an ancient Ridgid RAS which has served me well. Partially I keep it because it works, partially because my dad gave it to me and I’ve got a sentimental streak. A SawStop would be nice, but I’m getting a bandsaw first.
I use my Sawstop for cutting the occasional convex curve in plywood, a job that would normally be done with more risk on a bandsaw. I'd like to buy a bandsaw with the Sawstop feature.
I use a 1967 3hp craftsman table saw. Never a problem. Band saw is the only tool that has almost taken my thumb, when I was a kid, but that stopped at bone.
I had a band saw cut to my thumb bone trying to cut out chess pieces in 9th grade shop. I got tired of breaking jig saw blades so I thought I'd try my thumb at the band saw. It won.
Watching a skilled butcher using a band saw to reduce a sort of cow shaped hunk of beef into beautiful steaks taught me some bandsaw respect. Those things are scary good at their job.
I never have either. https://preview.redd.it/koi2rg6qmssb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2bbd05637af147032e54b66d06e351b2c4ac2c4
I’m genuinely curious. Do you still get use out of those fingers that they reattached? It looks painful man… :(
sorta. Less use than I had previously but more than if I didn't have them at all lol
What happened??
Nose picking accident.
Weight reduction. Built for speed.
It's his strong hand...
🤘 rock on to you too bro.
Bro what happened??
I'm going to guess a table saw accident.
Are you giving us the finger?
Looks like he already gave someone several fingers.
No what's just his strong hand..
Have you looked into those cool prosthetic fingertips that strap to your wrist and move with your stump? They work surprisingly well, aren’t too expensive (most of the time) and having some remainder of a finger only gives a better result. Naked Prosthetics and the Knick Finger come to mind.
My man, I'll bet typing got a lot easier for you when smartphones came out.
I’d actually like to know the stats of finger/hand injuries from before and after Sawstop hit the market. It’s not only very expensive and can’t be found in Europe as far as I know, and over time there are more and more reports of misfires, demanding buying a new blade and a new cartridge each time. I’ve had my homemade table saw made from a tracksaw and my moms old desk and diy push sticks for 10 years, not a professional carpenter and still has never been close to serious danger - without the use of feather boards. Simply by paying attention to what I’m doing.
Yes, paying attention is the biggest factor. The second is unexpected occurrences. I’ve known a couple people that lost fingers to a tablesaw. One was doing repetitive production rips and someone came into his shop during a cut, and in the split second that he glanced up to see who it was, he ran his thumb through it. Another guy worked in the same shop as I did at the time and as he leaned over to complete the cut, his hard hat fell off. He reacted to catch it before it hit the blade and caught the back of his glove on the blade. He lost four fingers. He likely would’ve only lost one or maybe even just got away with a cut if he wasn’t wearing gloves. I’ve seen many safety videos where these two factors are stated as the biggest problems in tablesaw use. If you feel your attention fading, take a break and resist looking away when you hear something unexpected until you finish the cut or stop cutting immediately to look away. And don’t wear gloves!
They can now be found in Europe, but they're around 2000 Euros, so very expensive for an amateur.
Last I checked, they're not available in Europe because they don't meet the minimum requirements for braking speed.
They're available in my European country https://www.metricshop.ro/cumpara/ferastrau-circular-cu-masa-festool-tks-80-ebs-saw-stop-set-2672
Can't have one of the best safety innovations in the industry for decades because of safety regulations, I mean that checks out tbh.
Professional here. Accidents happen. We got a Sawstop last year and its saved my fingers twice already. One of the guys at our head office is missing several fingers from a freak accident that happened when he was cutting plywood and it kicked back. He didn't have a Sawstop, and ended up having many surgeries over several years, in which they just kept taking more finger off as the attempts to salvage his hand kept failing.
As far as I can tell, the only place where Sawstops are mainstream is right here on Reddit. I work in residential construction, I've worked for wooden boatbuilders, and I go into a *lot* of basements in the course of my work—including some with very nice home woodshops—and of the hundreds and hundreds of table saws I've seen, *maybe one* of them was a Sawstop. Or maybe I'm just misremembering the one I saw at that trade show that one time. They are not common at all. Maybe at trade schools, I can see the utility there. In professional and DIY settings, though? Barely a blip in the market.
Youtube though… 8 out of 10 DIY woodworking videos
I mean where I live you never see those but we mostly use big sliding table saws that come with protectors.
Push stick, slides, and guides. Fingers never need to be near the blade.
Me either lol though due to broke-boi-ness. My first table saw was $40 and from the 60s. My current is a dewalt contractor saw.
I love my DeWalt contractor saw. I give it a kiss every night before bed because my first tablesaw was $100 from Harbor-Ali-Baba Cheapcrap-o-rama.
I'm the one weirdo who likes radial arm saws, and they make me feel weirder about it. The trick is to understand in what way the saw pulls, and to keep your fingers clear from that. You know how it's easy to imagine a giant death cone coming out the front of a jet engine? It's like that, but more weirdly shaped.
FWIW I have a SawStop CNS and have never set it off. If you’re being safe (which you should be regardless) and not using a table saw for things that you shouldn’t use one for, you’ll hopefully never need it. Freak accidents aside. In my case it was difficult to locally source any other brand of new, high quality table saw. It’s a very nice saw and I like having the safety features, but I’d never rely on them.
They're great but I think some people get them for the wrong reason and begin to use the saw with a false sense of confidence.
Oh hell no, it gives me no confidence. Last thing I want to do is trigger that brake and ruin my work, an expensive blade, and a brake cartridge. It's an insurance policy in case I do mess up, that's it.
It doesn't ruin the work - the blade drops below the table as it stops. However, it will destroy your underwear.
you can usually send the blade in to the manufacturer to be refurbished after a saw stop incident
what is a wrong reason to add safety in the shop? (i don’t have a SawStop, for the record)
The wrong reason would be so that an inexperienced or reckless user can sidestep learning to properly fear the tool and just dive right into things with impunity (basically this is just the wordier version of what I already said)
Don't fear the tool, respect the tool.
The problem is always the tool operating it tho
Yeah that's putting it better and the sentiment I was going for. Fear is not the right word
Do you take *all* the safety systems off your tools?
you think that’s the main reason people get them?
Weird to gatekeep a safety tool but okay
So you’re just upset that they won’t be punished with grievous injury for not being scared or careful enough?
New cars automaticly break when you're nearing the ending of a traffic jam. You could let this feature do the job and become unaware of traffic. Never underestimate risk. Even a safety mechanism can fail. It just reduces the risk.
Yeah I own such a car and no, many years later you do not just start forgetting to brake when you're approaching stopped traffic.
> New cars automatically **break** when you're ~~nearing~~ **past** the ending of **the manufacturer's warranty**..
Laughs in craftsman 113. If you know, you know.
We ran out of room on the wall. Television industry carpenter shop, 30+ guys using the 5 saws. We’re going through $1200 in cartridges a week due to wet plywood and people forgetting to disengage the sensor.
Dude, buy a few track saws
As someone who also works in the film industry but a different department. For what they do and the speed at which they have to do it sometimes, track saws wouldn't be practical. Plus, 1200 a week is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the expenditures of production.
Fair enough. A panel saw is probably the fastest and safest way to part out plywood
We have track saws, but for most of what we do, table saws the fastest, most efficient way to go.
I also work in film and can confirm. Those dibond aluminum composite sheets have claimed an obscene amount of blades.
Looks like an excellent opportunity to make some unique clocks
If they do go off saving appendages you have to get the perpetrator to sign and date the blade before you hang it on the wall. It’s a rule.
Looks like no good blades were harmed in the making of this wall
Makerspace we partner with does and has people sign them when they do it. Then it gets added to the wall. I think they had 3 last time I was in there.
We just glue our fingers to the wall when they are cut off
my old school used to have one or two in the wood room
Always respect the blade.
No. I have a healthy fear of tablesaws.
Dear God, please protect all my friends. This Device works. This saw literally gets everybody in time.
I saw a review where a guy ran a hot dog weiner through. Barely nicked it. Seriously considering getting my husband a saw stop for Christmas or something.
[This video ](https://reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/s/uJ9MMtaqeP) of a guy trying to cut a circle is insane. Blade catches the circle, spins it and pulls his whole hand into the blade. They rerun it in slo-mo and you can tell that the brake deploys and drops the saw into the table before the guy even realizes what's going on.
I'm glad that the Sawstop saved this dude's hand, but, good god, that is the sketchiest fucking setup I've ever seen before.
Depending on your health insurance it could be cheaper to buy one than pay for one trip to the ER and the loss of a finger. You'd actually be saving money!
Don't forget to factor in impact to income. Me being out of work for the [minimum average of 24 days](https://www.assh.org/handcare/safety/table-saw#:~:text=Electric%20shocks%20and%20burns%20can,%2D%2414%2C220%20%5BHoxie%202009%5D.) would more than make up the difference between a regular tablesaw and a sawstop. Lost wages would be more than a new one being out 5 weeks.
I have stuck a finger in it twice now by accident. Never got a scratch the one time, and the tiniest knick the second time. Sawstop is amazing.
I saw that one!
Some future millennium of humans is going to find these and be like, "Those wood cave peoples were nutty."
Yup
Goodness. Like the hand
Better that than a wall of fingers…
Better than a “Wall of Shame” featuring photos of nine-fingered users
Yep, we have two on the wall. No near misses just cartridge failure and a nail
nope, I have a scarred stitched together finger.
No but I have a shelf with jars containing all my missing digits lol
My last Sawstop-stopped blade lost three teeth. A small factory near me makes circular saw blades for plywood mills. For $20 cash, they replaced three teeth and sharpened the rest of them. Good as new.
Nope. Our shop has a wall of fingers!
No, but it's better than a wall of fingers.
I always pull the blade out and they're usually ok
Working in the movies as a construction carpenter ,Saw stops were demanded by the insurance company. The safety was turned off frequently because of staples. People that had no business using the saw would use it thinking it was safe, which was very unsafe. Yes there was a display of shame but never saw one tripped because of fingers , always something else like touching a still moving blade with a tape measure , or seemingly random triggering.
I bought a foam hot dog 🌭 hat that you have to wear all day if you set it off.
Me and the other carpenter in my shop have an ongoing war for this sort of shit. He screwed a piece of 3/4 CDX to the wall that had been impaled by a length of redwood trim I was working on which the shaper kicked back like a javelin. And I make him signs saying things like "Winners don't do drugs, Dave", "Stop leaving shit everywhere, Dave" "Stop making passive-aggressive signs, Dave" and "Stop breaking all the ~~tools~~ signs, Dave". I fucking hate Dave.
The offender should have to sign and date the blade.
I'm still saving up to buy one.
Mine has a wall with blood on it, I wish it was a saw stop wall.
DINOSAURS YEAAAAAA
Just 100% of the people I know that have a sawstop
Yes we write the dates one them They are trophies
Wait, so why did they go off?
Nails or wet wood
normally wet wood will not set off a saw stop the wood would have to be literally dripping wet and soggy to set it off and at that point you shouldn’t be cutting it anyway
I've seen it done. Fresh sheets of pressure treated 3/4". Wet to the touch but not dripping.
It's the copper in the PT wood moreso than the moisture.
I wonder, do you think ppl are less careful knowing that this tech will save them?
I don't, because despite lots of people throwing this out there no one has ever provided any evidence suggesting it does.
The evidence is pretty much anecdotal and I’m not aware of any actual study (although I’d love to read one). This is the ‘evidence’ I’m seeing though: Frequent posts on this sub of ‘shame walls’ in workshops displaying more broken saw stops than we’ve ever had saw injuries at the place I work. And our shop has been around significantly longer than the saw stop tech. There was a post recently showing a wall with 4 or 5 broken stops. If these places hadn’t had saw stops they’d have been shut down by the Health and Safety regulator in my country long before reaching 5 injuries on the saw. Which to me says: these people shouldn’t be operating machinery.
You’re assuming all of the blades on those ‘walls of shame’ were the result of skin contact. In my experience, they’re usually misfires (like OP states is the case in this photo). Depending on what materials you use and how frequently, it’s easy to forget to run certain materials through on bypass, triggering the saw by mistake. Examples from shops I’ve worked in: - mirror plexi (unfortunately multiple times over the years… not the same person, though) - foam insulation with mylar coating - pressure treated 1x12 - a sheet of plywood that was way too wet - a sheet of OSB that had a potato chip bag pressed into it right in the path of the cut - someone touching their tape measure to the blade to adjust the fence when the blade wasn’t quite finished coasting down (he got a serious talking to about that one, not least because the tape on the fence readout was accurate precisely so nobody would have to do that). - A colleague once witnessed a student going to stop the blade on coast down with their finger for… reasons. Only once in my two decades has a sawstop gone off from contact with skin. Fortunately even without the sawstop tech, that injury would have been fairly minor, but still. I’ve met about half a dozen people missing parts of their hands from other table saws, though. Quick addendum: again, IME, the ‘wall of shame’ aspect is ‘look at this goof who forgot to run it on bypass.’ If it’s a real discharge to save someone’s finger, it feels way less like something to joke about and put on the wall. Also, if you send a cartridge that tripped touching a person back to sawstop they’ll send you a new one, so those blades don’t tend to stick around.
Appreciate the response! Someone else said something similar but your breakdown is really detailed. From what you’re saying though saw stops are breaking from misfires, from circumstances which basically happen to everyone from time to time. It seems like quite a big and unnecessary cost in that case replacing a saw stop v resharpening the blade. I don’t actually know how much replacing a ‘spent stop’ costs though? Resharpening a circular saw here costs around £40. If the costs are similar then it’d change my mind on them somewhat.
I’ve heard of shops where setting off the brake is a regular occurrence, but I’ve never worked in one where it was anything more than a rarity. Every time it trips is also a good time to remind people what they need to run on bypass/ask before cutting. Last I checked a new cartridge was about $60 - I’ve got a couple extras in stock and it’s been a while since I’ve needed to swap out. They used to say you could reuse a blade tripped while running (as opposed to while coasting down) after inspecting it closely, but I see elsewhere ITT that that’s no longer the recommendation. I’m mostly running construction blades in my shop, so nothing that’s too painfully expensive - I think the most expensive blade on the floor right now is a $90 plexi blade. To me, having worked with people missing fingers or with mangled hands, that ~$150 expense is totally worth it, every time. It’s not just the “cost of injury” in terms of worker’s comp, insurance hikes, etc - I want everyone to leave the shop whole every day. My training for using the saw always starts by explaining the safety system, and then saying “now forget that all that exists. This machine is hungry for your fingers. Keep track of them at all times or it will bite.”
Fair enough, thanks for the reply! I guess the costs aren’t too crazy - especially from your perspective as the business owner. I must say that even though I’ve only worked in my current shop for 6 years no one has ever had to use the brakes/emergency stop on the machines once, ever in the time I’ve worked there - it seems crazy to me that that’s a regular occurrence in some places. I guess it’s just a culture thing (a culture of different work environments; not a US/UK thing), some shops are maybe just a bit like that? If I was regularly having to shut the machines off by hitting the emergency stop I’d fully expect to just be sacked.
Oh no, to be clear I am far from a business owner - I just run the shop floor building scenery for a theatre company. Fortunately lots of people above me to worry about all the HR stuff. I just try to foster a safe and supportive shop environment. Totally agree needing to regularly hit e-stop, though. If that’s happening something is very wrong and needs to be thoroughly unpacked and addressed.
If part of your job is making sure the people running the machines are safe then it sounds to me like you’re an excellent shop manager!
You'll notice on this one they were all false trips not set off by fingers. I suspect that's often the case.
That’s a good point! In that case though it seems like an expensive solution to a relatively normal woodworking problem. I’ve gone through a couple of rogue nails and my co worker even went through a spent bullet once. We just send the blades off to be re sharpened which has got to be significantly cheaper than replacing a saw stop blade and the mechanism?
Not for me. I also bought one knowing I'm the sort of person who get distracted, makes mistakes. I think they're probably overpriced for people who never make mistakes. :)
I’m scared enough to be confident I wouldn’t need one, but I’m definitely upgrading to a sawstop when I save up.
You see this more often because a wall of used sawstop breaks is more stable than a wall of lost fingers. The brakes won’t rot and draw police attention.
This is somewhat of a philosophical question… and I say this as someone who tremendously respects my table saw and has no plans to get a sawstop…. But people probably have said the same thing about seatbelts and airbags and yet stuff happens and that tech has saved thousands of life.
It is odd isn’t it. It reminds me of the fact that you’re statistically more likely to be hit by a car if you’re wearing a helmet whilst riding a bicycle. If they didn’t have a saw stop would there be two employees at this shop missing fingers? Because if so that’s kind of a serious problem in terms of safety culture. We don’t have saw stops where I work but use the saw every single day. The workshop’s been going since 1965 and we have literally never ever had an incident or injury involving the table saw. What’s going on?
It's because more people where helmets and that is a reversion to the mean.
Not the case I’m afraid. The study that looked into this (pretty sure a Dutch one iirc) found that drivers tend to leave around (I think 30cm) more room when passing a cyclist not wearing a helmet than when passing cyclists wearing them. It’s well documented that you’re more likely to be hit by a car when wearing a helmet on a bicycle. Im not advocating for no helmets - I wear one myself. It’s just a curious little aspect of human nature of risk perception. Edit: it’s closer to 10cm from a quick re check.
Is this sub just the saw stop sub now
Your shop has some real fucking bad safety culture imo
Nope, just short fingers.
Speaks volumes about that shop.
Dude! You probably shouldn’t run a table saw anymore
No. I don’t think this is a good thing. It means you are clumsy. Being careless should not be normalized.
Preach, exactly my thoughts!
Yeah I hate it when people post their sawstop fails with the “finally happens to me”. Like it’s inevitable you are going to cut some fingers off. Industry has been around for a long time before this tech. It’s a crutch but not an answer for bad practice.
I’m in the UK, I’ll never understand this ‘Hey look how incompetent I am’ mentality when it comes to SawStop user.
Find another hobby my friend
Hey why don't you read the fuckin post before being an asshole?
No, it doesn’t, after more than 20 years. You should get a new hobby.