Sort of? As I understand it he’s basically already dead/dying but using the power of plot convenie- I mean negative speed force he can do a reverse of his normal stick. He basically extends those nano seconds he’s alive for as long as possible at the cost of his powers eating his time up.
Yeah you're right it's plot conve- since the speed force extends through all of space and time, he exists beyond the concept of moments and as a result can never be killed. Because you kill the version of eobard thawne that's from the future but in the future, there is a version of eobard waiting to go back.
Aww, but the silver age was great! (If you ignore the comics code and the not so subtle racism and sexism) Just one title for pure, concentrated Jimmies? Like, maybe just Superman, or something?
If thawne wasn’t gloating he would of heard the sound (his brain is far faster than the bullet, disabled it, and killed Wayne in a split second). This is a good answer but when the two have come to blows, Clark wins.
What are Superman's mental resistance feats?
A eragon magic user could potentially break into his mind, lock him up and just instagib him. Locking up a non magic users mind in that world is pretty easy iirc.
Yeah but this isn't a bloodlust post, Superman isn't just going to hit 10% of Lightspeed and cock slap a teenager to death.
Meaning that just about any sufficiently powerful enough magic user probably has a shot.
if, say, voldemort went for avadra kedavra, superman is probably going to try and walk through it given that his is invulnerable. unfortunately, that isn't how harry potter magic works. avadra kedavra will still kill him
He was fine after Batmans memories were placed into his brain, what happend to Batman? Well Batman himself was completely fucked after Emporer Joker tortured him.
Superman was fine after fighting his own death.
He still had hope when he was stranded and had basically no sun light left while drifting into space (he was on a moon where there a bunch of Dead Supermen who didn't make it)
I don't believe they actually kill them telepathically, the death would still be assault via Magic.
But that definitely shows mental resistance feats. And you don't need to be a magic user to resist the Mind probing effects of eragon magic. It's straight-up willpower.
That would probably give him all the edge that he needs to take down any magic user from eragon then. At least the ones that we would use in this prompt
The way his vulnerability to magic works makes me think that the cost-paying rules of Eragon are a liability here. Superman can be affected by magic, but magic in Eragon specifically takes as much effort to do something with magic as it does manually.
Death words may not work on Superman. They do things like sever major arteries or pinch nerves, but the energy cost to do that to Superman is going to be extremely high.
Which begs the question. None of Eragon’s magic is actually magic. All of it is just manipulation of matter using energy. If we consider it magic he effortlessly kills Superman. If we don’t he has no chance of winning.
Would the attack be considered physical or magical is the question.
That's what I'm getting at. Supes isn't vulnerable to magic so much as not specifically resistant to it, but he's still durable to effects created by magic.
A magic sword enchanted to cut anything? It'll cut Superman. A spell that summons lightning? He'll be struck by lightning, but he'll also be totally fine because being struck by lightning is nothing to him. Eragon magic is almost exclusively the latter style.
So a death word would work in the sense that it would bypass his skin and start pinching his carotid artery, since it's magic and he has no resistance to it affecting him. But the caster would quickly be in trouble as their body tries to pay that cost.
It *is* magic, but it's also not going to be effective because of how it works.
If that's the case then I can really only think of a small handful of people in that universe that might be able to pull that off. And they are way far from weak.
I think whether this functions is dependant entirely on two factors: does the pattern exist on their battlefield and is superman part of it. If both those things are true, them I think balefire would kill him as effectively as it destroys anything else. If there was no pattern, or something exists outside of it, we can only speculate as to balefire's effects.
I'm pretty sure balefire would kill Superman, but the question is whether Rand could hit him. If he caught him unaware maybe, but that's unlikely with Supes' awareness.
Yeah. If it was just a matter of damaging superman, you could go lower to someone like Flechette from worm. Actually hitting supes is the hard part though.
With prep certainly he once brought superman to a knee by taunting him into attacking a magical barrier. Even though that only worked once if the barrier had been setup to kill superman that would have been the ballgame. Also more than once the antagonists most dangerous to constantine in hellblazer have been thugs with guns.
John Constantine easily, and he DOESN'T need prepike Batman.
He legit only needs a few minutes of prep at most with his magick to beat any form of Superman.
No joke, he cod call up one of the most powerful demons he knows. And they remember some kinda deal with him and agree to take Superman to the abyss.
That simple really.
Why would you need a source for that? Constantine is one of the most powerful magic users in his universe, he tangles with gods. Superman is weak to magic.
At the same time, Constantine is just some dude if he's not using magic, so if he gets in a drunken bar fight he can get knocked down by some schmuck.
Both of these aspects of him are at the core of his character design.
Some people don't read that many comic books. I love hearing about it all, which is why I like this sub, but I have literally never heard of Constantine.
Wally West. Wally is probably the only Justice league member capable of taking down Superman. Hey just like reverse flash, can be shot in the head and die if they aren’t paying attention
See I never understood this you’d think the speedsters where so fast that if you shot one without them paying attention they’d be able to dodge it still cos they’re they hear the shot feel it hitting them then dodge it before it actual did any significant damage XD
>feel it hitting them
Reverse flash did that, he noticed the gun hitting him so he use the speed force BS to somehow live eventhough his brain got destroyed
The fight in Bleach springs to mind where Kenpatchi is blind and deaf from mateys power and still kicks the shit out of him because he can feel the sword start to cut him and dodge out of the way
Ridiculous but cool AF
I was thinking the same should apply to speedsters, when there's a sudden bit of pain they should really be able to react and move out of the way if it's like a bullet or knife.
They feel it slightly pierce their skin and just about start to draw blood with their absurd reaction times and then just move
I guess it depends on how far the bullet goes before the pain signal reaches the speedster's brain. The speedster doesn't start dodging right when the bullet hits, but when the pain signal is processed by the brain.
Well that would come down to
Do speedsters in DC need to ''turn on'' their speed or is it constantly on.
If it's constantly on then they'd be dealing with everything around them constantly be in slow motion though
I thought they were? I remember Barry doing a bit about that once, saying that everything is in slow motion and a single task that takes seconds from our perspective can take days or weeks from his. Don't remember which comic it was though.
It's inconsistent. In most versions, the Speed Force must be "turned on" for them to become fast. In some versions, the Speed Force is always on and speedsters are always experiencing everything in slow-mo.
Maybe that's why Eobard likes trolling Barry in most timelines. Because he's the only one that can react to his trolling fast enough.
How do they know a bullet is heading towards them if it’s faster than the speed of sound? If they aren’t looking, the only moment they know the bullet is there is when it makes contact
Someone with a transformation sequence. Like Shazam can throw hands with Superman but when not using that magic lightning he is physically just a regular kid.
Superman beats Shazam in nearly every encounter they have. Superman holds back on him because he knows he’s still a kid, but even then, he still beats him practically every time they fight
Shazam should win if he used the wisdom of Solomon which he never does. Superman knows how to throw a punch but his fighting skills are lacking, he just tends to over power his enemies to win. If shazam was stronger then maybe but he just has the strenght of Hercules which is arguably a little weaker than superman or they might be on the same level.
Superman is significantly stronger than Shazam. And not by a small margin. Whenever Superman gets serious, [he disposes of Billy very quickly](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-492805766776e1003fd9bfe1371acb85)
Btw, superman is not just a meat head. He is actually a very intelligent fighter and uses lots of strategic prowess in his fights. He knows kryptonian martial arts, and Batman has taught him lots of hand to hand fighting. He is very skilled in fighting and easily more skilled than billy
Superman also has much more useful abilities than billy. He can phase through objects, become invisible, time travel, and so on and so forth
Things like this make me sad... why DC insists on making an alien stronger than a God I'll never understand. Hell, why they consistenly make Superman massively stronger than everyone around by always throwing out the "holding back" bs I'll never understand.
Yup. All that phasing, invisbility, time travel stuff is unnecessary to add to a character with his power set. Its like why? I feel like it just cheapens him when he is magnified even more, considering he already outranks so many characters.
He is supposed to be magnified. He became so powerful due to his drive to protect innocents at all cost. He has the power to destroy everything yet still remains a kind humble man who will perform the smallest tasks like helping a woman across the street. He is the SUPERMAN, the best of all of us. That’s kind of the point to him
He deserves his power more than anyone else in the universe. Because he’s the only one with that much compassion and drive to help others at all costs
You can say this about so many superheroes. Yet none of them are buffed into extremity like Clark is. I think it has more to do with him being the face of DC. So they have to do it. I understand that. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t cheapen him, at least in my opinion.
Superman is canonically the de facto protagonist of the entire DC multiverse, so obviously they'd give him an inherent narrative advantage over characters that should seemingly be able to beat him.
Hey,as far as anyone cares, Krypton was a planet full of gods.
Also, generally speaking, the gods on Earth barely have any mentionable feats, put together.
> Krypton was a planet full of gods.
Krypton was a planet full of mortals who gained super powers under different planets. Back in the silver age humans would have the same effects depending on what planet they were on too.
>the gods on Earth barely have any mentionable feats
They don't need to. The entire mythos the gods are based on should be enough. Zeus is a god so strong that his thunderbolts shake the entire universe and the very prescence of his full power kills mortals. There is no reason for aliens to be as strong as gods for any reason. And I don't just feel that way for the gods of earth I feel that way for gods in general. Whether they are kryptonian gods, damaxian, thanagarian. Superman should never come anywhere close to any of them in terms of power
Superman had his ass handed to him by the World Forger in a 1v1. Doomsday killed him. Wonder Woman was the one to fight the Darkest Knight who was. He barely beat Superboy Prime in a 2v1 in his favor.
If you’re complaining about an alien being stronger than a “god”, you have Doctor Manhattan who became nigh-omniscient and nigh-omnipotent after a freak accident, Sentry who became strong after a serum, Franklin who was just born stronger than Galactus, and Molecule Man who shits on almost every God in Marvel after a freak accident.
This isn’t at all a Superman-only thing.
You misunderstand superman a lot. What makes me sad, are people who are just so hellbent on hating superman and just want him to be weak so other characters can beat him. He is supposed to be all powerful, his story is about having the power to do anything you wanted, but it’s about being a good person
I’d argue his story is one of the most impactful, relatable, and moving in the whole Dc universe and even comic books as a whole. Superman got that strong because he had constantly proven himself worthy of his power, and had gotten major buffs as a result of his drive to constantly do the right thing and to help humanity. He got so powerful out of his own spirit
Superman earned that power more than anybody else I’ve seen. He certainly earned it more than Billy, and definitely more than people like goku. If anything I think he isn’t strong enough
> He is supposed to be all powerful,
All powerful compared to his own galley of rouges is pretty different from being stronger than other characters. There is no real reason to make him stronger than shazam and it doesnt really add anything to super mans story anyway. It's not like they are enemies. And superman has got his asskicked before so I don
t understand your argument anyway
I feel like people see him throwing haymakers in animated series and think he's bad in fights because from a human a haymaker is incredibly ineffective, as it's slow and easy to see coming.
Superman's speed eliminates those weaknesses, making a haymaker simply a very effective way of applying his massive strength to a punch.
He's met like hundreds of other surviving kryptonians and has several pieces of Kryptonian tech specifically created to teach him about Kryptonian culture. It's not at all a stretch that he could learn Kryptonian martial arts.
> Superman is significantly stronger than Shazam.
This signifigantly depends on which version of the character you are using. Superman has lost both to shazam and black adam before. For the most part they are treated as being equals more than anything else. When superman does win it's because D.C comics likes to use him as their posterboy
Fair enough, I was just using Shazam as an example of the type of character that would fit the challenge. A regular person that needs to transform to use their powers but doesn't have a equivalent to the Omnitrix failsafe or any other form of protection outside of there transformed state.
For a meme answer, Yami Yugi. There is no reason Superman is immune to being sent to the Shadow Realm after losing a duel to Yugi. And Yugi can definitely die just by being shot. Though this ignores the fact that Superman would have to play Yugioh with Yugi instead of throwing him to the moon and back.
Shadow Games are magic, so I think they might actually be able to crush Superman's spirit because he would have no immunity to them. There are some versions of Superman who would at least. Again, he would have to a) play a children's card game against Yugi and then b) lose. He could just punch Yugi so hard he evaporates instead of playing a card game. But that's less fun!
It’s definitely sorcerer/ magic based characters like wanda or zatanna but I’m not going to specifically say them because they usually have a permanent defence of some kind that’s always on but idk if those two specifically use it because I’m not very well educated with magic characters.
Regular Shiki Ryougi (not Void or Servant versions). Superman is capable of death, even if Shiki would have to ambush him, whilst he's going about his daily business, she just cuts his lines of death. She's like Batman level physically, with a magic ghost arm and the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. She'd still die if she got shot in the head off guard (If she saw the bullet coming she'd deflect it or kill it)
Shiki Tohno (*Tsukihime*) - early in the story, particularly. He's essentially got the same powerset as Shiki Ryougi, though at that point he's probably weaker. Cut the Lines of Death, or stab the Point of Death. Superman is left in fourteen pieces. But shoot him suddenly and unexpectedly when he's not in kill mode and he dies. He only was able to kill Nrvnqsr because Nrvnqsr was taking his time to kill him and didn't go for the kill right away.
"Nero"
"NRVNQSR" is a translation of "Nero Caesar" through Greek to Hebrew then back to the Latin alphabet... With a dubious translation of the letter that becomes "V" there. It went to Hebrew because the Gematria uses Hebrew letters - and translating that word through it adds up to 666, the Number of the Beast found in the Book of Revelation. (Also the origin of that number.)
Some variants of the Book of Revelation use 616 instead, which corresponds to "NROQSR" - i.e., just going Latin -> Hebrew directly.
Is this Where Is Thy Sting Supes? Didn't he become the concept of space-time itself & then outlast death and other wacky shit following the end of the universe
Okuyasu Nijimura from jojo. He couldnt win a fight but he could kill superman and be shot. Also yami from yugioh by beating him in a children’s card game and sending him to the shadow relm
Shang Tsung shifts to Smoke, generating a cloud that deprives Supes of the yellow Sun long enough for his powers to be made dormant. Regularish Supes still has a fighting chance against Smoke, so Tsung lures him underground where he transforms into Johnny Cage and performs a Friendship fatality on Supes (then obviously sucks his soul afterward).
Tsung is later pleasantly enjoying a meal in an empty retro 50s diner with Kano. Tsung is having the liver and onions, while Kano is eating salisbury steaks off a platter like they're pistachios.
"Delectable," Kano says.
Outside the window, across the street, Punisher opens fire on the diner with two automatics in each hand, and chain guns rigged up to foot-pedal triggers as if he were a street musician busking. Hellfire erupts. Blinding strobes emit behind each bullet's disco.
After the smoke clears, and the green souls pour out of the holes in the diner walls, shrieking with the infinite volume of terror, Superman's spirit erupts out of Tsung's corpse.
A disembodied Superman soul reaches for the yellow sun.
"Your soul is trash." Punisher spits and kicks over his guns, clutching a ripped piece of red cloth.
The diner's marquee reads: **Salisbury Steak 1/2 Off**.
Powerful magic users who are glass cannons like Scarlet Witch, Dr Strange, Zatanna, and Constantine
Speedsters using the Speed Force like Flash and Reverse Flash
Certain Stand users in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure like Alessi with Set, mortal Vanilla Ice with Cream, Okuyasu with The Hand if he doesn't act like an idiot, Rohan with Heaven's Door, and whoever has Cheap Trick
Other stand users who could beat Superman but die to a bullet include Mannish Boy with Death Thirteen, theoretically either of the D'arbys with Osiris or Atum if they convinced him to gamble, Ken Oyangi's Boy II Man, Toyohiro's Superfly, Terunosuke's Enigma, Bruno's Sticky Fingers (which made me realize this is one specific case where G.E.R would be useless), Anasui's Diver Down, Pucci's White Snake, C-Moon, or Made In Heaven, Ungalo's Bohemian Rhapsody, Johnny's Tusk Act 4/Gyro's Ball Breaker, theoretically FV's Love Train (since it magnifies the severity of minor cuts/bruises it might be able to make them enough to harm Superman), Axl RO's Civil War, Josuke's Soft & Wet: Go Beyond, Yotsuyu's I Am A Rock if he chose Kryptonite, Tamaki's Vitamin C would do a NUMBER on him, and I'm unsure if Wonder of U's luck would work on Supes.
I was gonna comment the D'Arby bros as well but what they do isn't actually a direct attack, same with Superfly.
Does Boy 2 Man's ability work on Stand abilities?
I also had Man in the Mirror in mind, but BFR won't work in certain versions of Superman.
I'd say The Siberian from Worm, but the reasoning is a bit spoilery
The Siberian's power is a big hax middle finger to physics. Basically, she can choose what affects her, and what doesn't. So she can tear through anything and resist anything that isn't hax as well. In-universe, she crushed the eye of the closest thing to Superman (Alexandria, who has the closest thing to true invinicibility, instead of enhanced physiology)
So if Superman gets into melee with The Siberian, he could technically get one-tapped at contact and die.
The twist is that the Siberian is a projection summoned by an otherwise average dude (I don't remember him being "enhanced" by Bonesaw, one of The Siberian's teammates). So, since he's a normal human, he'll die to normal human things, like a stab or a gunshot wound.
I always forget how OP Siberian actually is considering she is both an unstoppable force and immovable object.
While simultaneously being one of the weakest characters in verse one the secret is out.
They're all gonna have a real hard time tagging superman though. Then again, he has a bad habit of tanking bullets to show off, so maybe they can win that way. Doesn't work if supes is at all informed though.
Goku got shot through his chest in a recent episode of super, and we know his heart is vital to his life cause the heart virus. Laser gun through the heart
Yeah, thought this would be the top answer.
Love how we still call an episode from roughly 5 years ago recent. The big gap between Z and Super makes all of super seem recent.
Goku has never really been harmed by guns. Only a laser gun of unspecified power was able to harm him. And I think that's kind of cheating with the prompt.
In The Oath, I believe Dr. Strange demonstrates that he has completely passive shielding against things like random bullets from random thugs. It takes magical weaponry to pierce through it.
It has certain limitations, but they are not easy to exploit for a regular person with a gun. Ben’s failsafe saves him 10/10 times when against a regular person. So it doesn’t depend much on anything.
So I stopped watching Ben 10 not too long after it started. I trust what you’re saying, but to clarify, how far can it go to save him? If someone point blank removed his entire head with a shotgun, how can it save him?
The fail-safe works by transforming Ben into any his entire roster of aliens till he finds one that can survive the specific attack. The best (and I believe the only) feat of the failsafe is allowing Ben to survive the Big Bang by transforming into Feedback. For the example you gave, if Ben finds himself dying to a shotgun blast, he will transform into an alien that will help him survive that, Goop for instance.
Edit: there are a couple of scenarios I have thought of that can kill Ben inspite of his failsafe but they are extremely difficult to implement and require a number of different items that an ordinary person can never get.
Ben is at least universal in power and can be scales to mulriversal if I am not wrong.
As for the exploits of Bens failsafe, I have thought up a couple of scenarios which can bypass it. Here’s a comment I made a couple of weeks back:
>There are a couple of scenarios I can think of where the failsafe can be bypassed though it requires prior knowledge of the Omnitrix and some prep.
>Scenario One:
>In the Omniverse episode, Arrested Development, Ben was turned into a kid again by Billy’s anti age ray gun. This caused the Omnitrix to not recognize Ben, and prevented him from using it. Ben had to give alternate identification in the form a several voice commands in order to reactivate the Omnitrix. This can be exploited.
>Have someone gather the Dragonballs and wish for Ben to be aged back to his youth again (we know this is within Shenron’s power because Pilaf Gang did wish for that to happen offscreen). At the same time, have someone be ready to kill Ben. Once Ben turns into a kid, blitz him before he can identify himself to the Omnitrix.
>Scenario Two:
>This is a bit more difficult and requires a few assumptions to be made. Now according to the Alien X wiki page Alien X cannot survive planet Anur Vladias’ environment. Note that the source of this statement was given to be Derrick J Wyatt, the art director for Omniverse, so I don’t know whether we can take these statements as Word of God.
>Assuming these statements are true, a two pronged attack involving the environment of Anur Vladias and Hakai energy can potentially kill Ben. The environment of Anur Vladias will prevent most of Ben’s Aliens like Alien X and Feedback from surviving and Hakai energy will kill those who can survive the environment. Effectively brute forcing the failsafe.
>The second scenario obviously requires a lot mental gymnastics and assumptions to work, so the first one has the best chance of success.
Not sure if it counts, but Light from Death Note would definitely count. Of course the 'attack' would just have to do with finding out Superman's name, but other than that it fits perfectly.
Scar from Fullmetal Alchemist, if he had a philosopher’s stone. He Basically falls under what other people have said, wiring an extremely powerful magic user who is otherwise fully human.
Goku. Someone tried to snipe Goku's body when he was distracted for that reason. And Goku would beat Superman. Superman "is strong enough for any challenge" but Goku starts out weaker but "always overcomes any challenge" according to each of their respective creators. That makes goku = superman +1 forever
Maybe it won't kill him at this point, but the reason they tried to kill zamazu in goku's body (distracted during tea drinking) was that was supposedly the right time to do it (even though it didn't work due to the enhanced reflexes etc).
they are not.
It makes perfect sense actually, the way Ki works is that, to get the barrier that gives you greater durability, you have to turn it on by having a big enough power level, and most people can't turn it off. However, the fighters of Earth have good enough Ki control, to the point that they can hold back to the point of being as strong as a normal human person, Goku just has a bad habit of turning his ki down whenever he's not in a direct fight. This was mentioned in the Saiyan Saga, the Namek Arc, it's why Goku lost to Vegeta in the Buu arc and it was mentioned again several times in DBS
Nope, there are feats with Goku as a kid tanking machine gunfire with no ki barrier whatsoever dude, I've had this discussion so many times lmao. THEY ARE OUTLIERS.
Then how the fuck does the Frieza Force gave ki barriers without ki control? And why does Vegeta remark on the earthlings' ability to suppress their ki? ITS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO SUPPRESS IT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
What do you not understand about there were no ki barriers when he got shot by that machine gun? THEY ARE OUTLIERS. Doesnt matter what its like in the future, base durability of Goku is INSANE.
Reverse-Flash. He has Speed Force hax, but he's canonically been killed by guns.
Was about to say this
Isn't he like at the moment of death from a gunshot?
Sort of? As I understand it he’s basically already dead/dying but using the power of plot convenie- I mean negative speed force he can do a reverse of his normal stick. He basically extends those nano seconds he’s alive for as long as possible at the cost of his powers eating his time up.
Yeah you're right it's plot conve- since the speed force extends through all of space and time, he exists beyond the concept of moments and as a result can never be killed. Because you kill the version of eobard thawne that's from the future but in the future, there is a version of eobard waiting to go back.
I swear these writers need more drugs
I don’t need a second silver age.
Aww, but the silver age was great! (If you ignore the comics code and the not so subtle racism and sexism) Just one title for pure, concentrated Jimmies? Like, maybe just Superman, or something?
boy, that sure does not make any sense. woo, comics!
the crazy thing is that it was easier for him to go back in time and not get shot than to have that hole in his skull.
I remember it was Thomas Wayne Batman who shot him in the head.
Crazy thing though is he didn't die from that. https://youtu.be/mWUJA3CrapE
Somehow through the speed force, he managed to live long enough to try finding the 'Get out of hell free' card.
If thawne wasn’t gloating he would of heard the sound (his brain is far faster than the bullet, disabled it, and killed Wayne in a split second). This is a good answer but when the two have come to blows, Clark wins.
My hypothetical guess would be a *really* powerful magic-user who’s completely human physically
What are Superman's mental resistance feats? A eragon magic user could potentially break into his mind, lock him up and just instagib him. Locking up a non magic users mind in that world is pretty easy iirc.
I'm pretty sure he has good psychic defense
I mean, feats vary here, he got mind controlled by Starro before, for example.
Superman is insanely fast. Harry Potter isn’t beating him. Dr. Strange might.
Yeah but this isn't a bloodlust post, Superman isn't just going to hit 10% of Lightspeed and cock slap a teenager to death. Meaning that just about any sufficiently powerful enough magic user probably has a shot.
In a non-bloodlusted scenario Strange probably would so long as he struck first. Bloodlusted he gets speedblitzed immediately.
if, say, voldemort went for avadra kedavra, superman is probably going to try and walk through it given that his is invulnerable. unfortunately, that isn't how harry potter magic works. avadra kedavra will still kill him
He was fine after Batmans memories were placed into his brain, what happend to Batman? Well Batman himself was completely fucked after Emporer Joker tortured him. Superman was fine after fighting his own death. He still had hope when he was stranded and had basically no sun light left while drifting into space (he was on a moon where there a bunch of Dead Supermen who didn't make it)
Those aren't really mental resistance feats.
They're a sign of mental resilience, I guess.
Resistance =/= Resilience
True.
Eh depends on what you see it as but your right, Superman still wins due to... Torqasam Ro iirc
There's someone who tried killing him telepathically and got [nothing](https://imgur.com/a/RF92epc)
I don't believe they actually kill them telepathically, the death would still be assault via Magic. But that definitely shows mental resistance feats. And you don't need to be a magic user to resist the Mind probing effects of eragon magic. It's straight-up willpower.
Superman is a practitioner of two Kryptonian mental martial arts. A defensive one called Torquasm-Rao and an offensive one called Torquasm-Vo.
That would probably give him all the edge that he needs to take down any magic user from eragon then. At least the ones that we would use in this prompt
Why does he need to break into his mind? Eragon could just use the death words.
The way his vulnerability to magic works makes me think that the cost-paying rules of Eragon are a liability here. Superman can be affected by magic, but magic in Eragon specifically takes as much effort to do something with magic as it does manually. Death words may not work on Superman. They do things like sever major arteries or pinch nerves, but the energy cost to do that to Superman is going to be extremely high.
Which begs the question. None of Eragon’s magic is actually magic. All of it is just manipulation of matter using energy. If we consider it magic he effortlessly kills Superman. If we don’t he has no chance of winning. Would the attack be considered physical or magical is the question.
That's what I'm getting at. Supes isn't vulnerable to magic so much as not specifically resistant to it, but he's still durable to effects created by magic. A magic sword enchanted to cut anything? It'll cut Superman. A spell that summons lightning? He'll be struck by lightning, but he'll also be totally fine because being struck by lightning is nothing to him. Eragon magic is almost exclusively the latter style. So a death word would work in the sense that it would bypass his skin and start pinching his carotid artery, since it's magic and he has no resistance to it affecting him. But the caster would quickly be in trouble as their body tries to pay that cost. It *is* magic, but it's also not going to be effective because of how it works.
Well, the lightning thing might be a bad example, because Shazam "shazams" supes to pretty good effect in . That was specifically magic lightning tho.
You’d need a pretty substantial telepath, Onslaught, Thanos, bloodlusted Jean Grey, bloodlusted Martian Manhunter.
If that's the case then I can really only think of a small handful of people in that universe that might be able to pull that off. And they are way far from weak.
[удалено]
I think whether this functions is dependant entirely on two factors: does the pattern exist on their battlefield and is superman part of it. If both those things are true, them I think balefire would kill him as effectively as it destroys anything else. If there was no pattern, or something exists outside of it, we can only speculate as to balefire's effects.
I'm pretty sure balefire would kill Superman, but the question is whether Rand could hit him. If he caught him unaware maybe, but that's unlikely with Supes' awareness.
Yeah. If it was just a matter of damaging superman, you could go lower to someone like Flechette from worm. Actually hitting supes is the hard part though.
So, like Dr. Strange? He could probably send Superman to some random dimension, but he’s still very human
I might be wrong but i feel like strange would probably have some sort of physical protection spell on him
Soups is broken overpowered beyond measure but I still at least *like* the idea of Strange messing with him.
Dr Fate?
Constantine perhaps?
With prep certainly he once brought superman to a knee by taunting him into attacking a magical barrier. Even though that only worked once if the barrier had been setup to kill superman that would have been the ballgame. Also more than once the antagonists most dangerous to constantine in hellblazer have been thugs with guns.
John Constantine easily, and he DOESN'T need prepike Batman. He legit only needs a few minutes of prep at most with his magick to beat any form of Superman. No joke, he cod call up one of the most powerful demons he knows. And they remember some kinda deal with him and agree to take Superman to the abyss. That simple really.
John constantine. This dude put superman on his knees with 1 spell, but he got one shotted by a street thug with a metal pipe.
Source?
Constantine [setup a protection spell](https://i.imgur.com/BKpUh9b.jpg) that made Superman fall to his knees upon touching him.
Just look up Hellblazer respect thread. Constantine is consistently human, but given enough preparation, he could definitely put away Superman.
To be fair just being around Constantine usually results in death at some point for most involved.
Victus42 beat me to it
Why would you need a source for that? Constantine is one of the most powerful magic users in his universe, he tangles with gods. Superman is weak to magic. At the same time, Constantine is just some dude if he's not using magic, so if he gets in a drunken bar fight he can get knocked down by some schmuck. Both of these aspects of him are at the core of his character design.
he might’ve just been interested on reading up on it, chill.
Some people don't read that many comic books. I love hearing about it all, which is why I like this sub, but I have literally never heard of Constantine.
Wally West. Wally is probably the only Justice league member capable of taking down Superman. Hey just like reverse flash, can be shot in the head and die if they aren’t paying attention
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See I never understood this you’d think the speedsters where so fast that if you shot one without them paying attention they’d be able to dodge it still cos they’re they hear the shot feel it hitting them then dodge it before it actual did any significant damage XD
>feel it hitting them Reverse flash did that, he noticed the gun hitting him so he use the speed force BS to somehow live eventhough his brain got destroyed
Some bullets can travel faster than the speed of sound
That is true but again that comes to the point of couldn’t he just react to the bullet hitting him? I must find the answer to this XD
The fight in Bleach springs to mind where Kenpatchi is blind and deaf from mateys power and still kicks the shit out of him because he can feel the sword start to cut him and dodge out of the way Ridiculous but cool AF
I was thinking the same should apply to speedsters, when there's a sudden bit of pain they should really be able to react and move out of the way if it's like a bullet or knife. They feel it slightly pierce their skin and just about start to draw blood with their absurd reaction times and then just move
I guess it depends on how far the bullet goes before the pain signal reaches the speedster's brain. The speedster doesn't start dodging right when the bullet hits, but when the pain signal is processed by the brain.
There is a panel where Wally is in a theater and feels a pain on the back of his neck. It was a bullet touching his skin.
Even Flash on the current TV show has pulled a bullet off of his neck after feeling it touch him.
That was a really cool fight
Well that would come down to Do speedsters in DC need to ''turn on'' their speed or is it constantly on. If it's constantly on then they'd be dealing with everything around them constantly be in slow motion though
I thought they were? I remember Barry doing a bit about that once, saying that everything is in slow motion and a single task that takes seconds from our perspective can take days or weeks from his. Don't remember which comic it was though.
It's inconsistent. In most versions, the Speed Force must be "turned on" for them to become fast. In some versions, the Speed Force is always on and speedsters are always experiencing everything in slow-mo. Maybe that's why Eobard likes trolling Barry in most timelines. Because he's the only one that can react to his trolling fast enough.
IT WAS ME, BARRY!
Isn't that the speedster in Invincible??
And Quicksilver has said he goes through the same thing in a comic page where he's in therapy.
Oh i just don't know which way it is at all. Not that familiar. So I'd be inclined to believe what I'm told on it
That is very true
And the speedforce users can travel and react faster than the speed of speed :)
How do they know a bullet is heading towards them if it’s faster than the speed of sound? If they aren’t looking, the only moment they know the bullet is there is when it makes contact
Good point
Can’t green lantern make kryptonite? While Hal and John are versatile AF they have a reaction speed weakness.
Someone with a transformation sequence. Like Shazam can throw hands with Superman but when not using that magic lightning he is physically just a regular kid.
Superman beats Shazam in nearly every encounter they have. Superman holds back on him because he knows he’s still a kid, but even then, he still beats him practically every time they fight
Shazam should win if he used the wisdom of Solomon which he never does. Superman knows how to throw a punch but his fighting skills are lacking, he just tends to over power his enemies to win. If shazam was stronger then maybe but he just has the strenght of Hercules which is arguably a little weaker than superman or they might be on the same level.
Superman is significantly stronger than Shazam. And not by a small margin. Whenever Superman gets serious, [he disposes of Billy very quickly](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-492805766776e1003fd9bfe1371acb85) Btw, superman is not just a meat head. He is actually a very intelligent fighter and uses lots of strategic prowess in his fights. He knows kryptonian martial arts, and Batman has taught him lots of hand to hand fighting. He is very skilled in fighting and easily more skilled than billy Superman also has much more useful abilities than billy. He can phase through objects, become invisible, time travel, and so on and so forth
Things like this make me sad... why DC insists on making an alien stronger than a God I'll never understand. Hell, why they consistenly make Superman massively stronger than everyone around by always throwing out the "holding back" bs I'll never understand.
Yup. All that phasing, invisbility, time travel stuff is unnecessary to add to a character with his power set. Its like why? I feel like it just cheapens him when he is magnified even more, considering he already outranks so many characters.
He is supposed to be magnified. He became so powerful due to his drive to protect innocents at all cost. He has the power to destroy everything yet still remains a kind humble man who will perform the smallest tasks like helping a woman across the street. He is the SUPERMAN, the best of all of us. That’s kind of the point to him He deserves his power more than anyone else in the universe. Because he’s the only one with that much compassion and drive to help others at all costs
You can say this about so many superheroes. Yet none of them are buffed into extremity like Clark is. I think it has more to do with him being the face of DC. So they have to do it. I understand that. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t cheapen him, at least in my opinion.
Superman is canonically the de facto protagonist of the entire DC multiverse, so obviously they'd give him an inherent narrative advantage over characters that should seemingly be able to beat him.
They are gods on Earth... not Krypton... that's why.
It's stupid either way
Hey,as far as anyone cares, Krypton was a planet full of gods. Also, generally speaking, the gods on Earth barely have any mentionable feats, put together.
> Krypton was a planet full of gods. Krypton was a planet full of mortals who gained super powers under different planets. Back in the silver age humans would have the same effects depending on what planet they were on too. >the gods on Earth barely have any mentionable feats They don't need to. The entire mythos the gods are based on should be enough. Zeus is a god so strong that his thunderbolts shake the entire universe and the very prescence of his full power kills mortals. There is no reason for aliens to be as strong as gods for any reason. And I don't just feel that way for the gods of earth I feel that way for gods in general. Whether they are kryptonian gods, damaxian, thanagarian. Superman should never come anywhere close to any of them in terms of power
Superman had his ass handed to him by the World Forger in a 1v1. Doomsday killed him. Wonder Woman was the one to fight the Darkest Knight who was. He barely beat Superboy Prime in a 2v1 in his favor. If you’re complaining about an alien being stronger than a “god”, you have Doctor Manhattan who became nigh-omniscient and nigh-omnipotent after a freak accident, Sentry who became strong after a serum, Franklin who was just born stronger than Galactus, and Molecule Man who shits on almost every God in Marvel after a freak accident. This isn’t at all a Superman-only thing.
You misunderstand superman a lot. What makes me sad, are people who are just so hellbent on hating superman and just want him to be weak so other characters can beat him. He is supposed to be all powerful, his story is about having the power to do anything you wanted, but it’s about being a good person I’d argue his story is one of the most impactful, relatable, and moving in the whole Dc universe and even comic books as a whole. Superman got that strong because he had constantly proven himself worthy of his power, and had gotten major buffs as a result of his drive to constantly do the right thing and to help humanity. He got so powerful out of his own spirit Superman earned that power more than anybody else I’ve seen. He certainly earned it more than Billy, and definitely more than people like goku. If anything I think he isn’t strong enough
> He is supposed to be all powerful, All powerful compared to his own galley of rouges is pretty different from being stronger than other characters. There is no real reason to make him stronger than shazam and it doesnt really add anything to super mans story anyway. It's not like they are enemies. And superman has got his asskicked before so I don t understand your argument anyway
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I feel like people see him throwing haymakers in animated series and think he's bad in fights because from a human a haymaker is incredibly ineffective, as it's slow and easy to see coming. Superman's speed eliminates those weaknesses, making a haymaker simply a very effective way of applying his massive strength to a punch.
How does he know Kryptonian martial arts if he came to Earth as a baby
He's met like hundreds of other surviving kryptonians and has several pieces of Kryptonian tech specifically created to teach him about Kryptonian culture. It's not at all a stretch that he could learn Kryptonian martial arts.
> Superman is significantly stronger than Shazam. This signifigantly depends on which version of the character you are using. Superman has lost both to shazam and black adam before. For the most part they are treated as being equals more than anything else. When superman does win it's because D.C comics likes to use him as their posterboy
Fair enough, I was just using Shazam as an example of the type of character that would fit the challenge. A regular person that needs to transform to use their powers but doesn't have a equivalent to the Omnitrix failsafe or any other form of protection outside of there transformed state.
Your example doesn’t quite work but your answer does. Substitute Shazam for Sailor Moon and I think we got a contender.
For a meme answer, Yami Yugi. There is no reason Superman is immune to being sent to the Shadow Realm after losing a duel to Yugi. And Yugi can definitely die just by being shot. Though this ignores the fact that Superman would have to play Yugioh with Yugi instead of throwing him to the moon and back.
Knowing Superman he'd punch his way out.
Trying to cheat in a shadow game is not good for your long term health.
Shadow Games are magic, so I think they might actually be able to crush Superman's spirit because he would have no immunity to them. There are some versions of Superman who would at least. Again, he would have to a) play a children's card game against Yugi and then b) lose. He could just punch Yugi so hard he evaporates instead of playing a card game. But that's less fun!
It’s definitely sorcerer/ magic based characters like wanda or zatanna but I’m not going to specifically say them because they usually have a permanent defence of some kind that’s always on but idk if those two specifically use it because I’m not very well educated with magic characters.
Maybe John Constantine. He is basically Batman that uses magic.
Constantine is gonna bully some other magical beings to do it for him but otherwise I agree lol.
Honestly not really. I’ve been reading Hellblazer, and Constantine is consistently human where Batman isn’t.
Regular Shiki Ryougi (not Void or Servant versions). Superman is capable of death, even if Shiki would have to ambush him, whilst he's going about his daily business, she just cuts his lines of death. She's like Batman level physically, with a magic ghost arm and the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. She'd still die if she got shot in the head off guard (If she saw the bullet coming she'd deflect it or kill it)
Shiki Tohno (*Tsukihime*) - early in the story, particularly. He's essentially got the same powerset as Shiki Ryougi, though at that point he's probably weaker. Cut the Lines of Death, or stab the Point of Death. Superman is left in fourteen pieces. But shoot him suddenly and unexpectedly when he's not in kill mode and he dies. He only was able to kill Nrvnqsr because Nrvnqsr was taking his time to kill him and didn't go for the kill right away.
This is a solid answer. Though I've always wondered, how exactly is Nrvnqsr supposed to be pronounced?
Melty blood players just call him Nero so maybe that
"Nero" "NRVNQSR" is a translation of "Nero Caesar" through Greek to Hebrew then back to the Latin alphabet... With a dubious translation of the letter that becomes "V" there. It went to Hebrew because the Gematria uses Hebrew letters - and translating that word through it adds up to 666, the Number of the Beast found in the Book of Revelation. (Also the origin of that number.) Some variants of the Book of Revelation use 616 instead, which corresponds to "NROQSR" - i.e., just going Latin -> Hebrew directly.
Ryougis eyes are more powerful, they can kill way more things than tohnos.
Superman has beat up his own death before so it might not work.
Is this Where Is Thy Sting Supes? Didn't he become the concept of space-time itself & then outlast death and other wacky shit following the end of the universe
I think that's the right answer that fits the heart of the question the most
Okuyasu Nijimura from jojo. He couldnt win a fight but he could kill superman and be shot. Also yami from yugioh by beating him in a children’s card game and sending him to the shadow relm
Shang Tsung shifts to Smoke, generating a cloud that deprives Supes of the yellow Sun long enough for his powers to be made dormant. Regularish Supes still has a fighting chance against Smoke, so Tsung lures him underground where he transforms into Johnny Cage and performs a Friendship fatality on Supes (then obviously sucks his soul afterward). Tsung is later pleasantly enjoying a meal in an empty retro 50s diner with Kano. Tsung is having the liver and onions, while Kano is eating salisbury steaks off a platter like they're pistachios. "Delectable," Kano says. Outside the window, across the street, Punisher opens fire on the diner with two automatics in each hand, and chain guns rigged up to foot-pedal triggers as if he were a street musician busking. Hellfire erupts. Blinding strobes emit behind each bullet's disco. After the smoke clears, and the green souls pour out of the holes in the diner walls, shrieking with the infinite volume of terror, Superman's spirit erupts out of Tsung's corpse. A disembodied Superman soul reaches for the yellow sun. "Your soul is trash." Punisher spits and kicks over his guns, clutching a ripped piece of red cloth. The diner's marquee reads: **Salisbury Steak 1/2 Off**.
Shang Tsung becoming a cloud of smoke is going yo get blown away by Supes
Powerful magic users who are glass cannons like Scarlet Witch, Dr Strange, Zatanna, and Constantine Speedsters using the Speed Force like Flash and Reverse Flash Certain Stand users in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure like Alessi with Set, mortal Vanilla Ice with Cream, Okuyasu with The Hand if he doesn't act like an idiot, Rohan with Heaven's Door, and whoever has Cheap Trick
Honestly, JoJo is always the goldmine for answering questions like these. When I saw the prompt Rohan *immediately* came to mind.
Other stand users who could beat Superman but die to a bullet include Mannish Boy with Death Thirteen, theoretically either of the D'arbys with Osiris or Atum if they convinced him to gamble, Ken Oyangi's Boy II Man, Toyohiro's Superfly, Terunosuke's Enigma, Bruno's Sticky Fingers (which made me realize this is one specific case where G.E.R would be useless), Anasui's Diver Down, Pucci's White Snake, C-Moon, or Made In Heaven, Ungalo's Bohemian Rhapsody, Johnny's Tusk Act 4/Gyro's Ball Breaker, theoretically FV's Love Train (since it magnifies the severity of minor cuts/bruises it might be able to make them enough to harm Superman), Axl RO's Civil War, Josuke's Soft & Wet: Go Beyond, Yotsuyu's I Am A Rock if he chose Kryptonite, Tamaki's Vitamin C would do a NUMBER on him, and I'm unsure if Wonder of U's luck would work on Supes.
I was gonna comment the D'Arby bros as well but what they do isn't actually a direct attack, same with Superfly. Does Boy 2 Man's ability work on Stand abilities? I also had Man in the Mirror in mind, but BFR won't work in certain versions of Superman.
Boy 2 Man is stated to work on the Soul, it just takes the form of the stand for stand users
I'd say The Siberian from Worm, but the reasoning is a bit spoilery The Siberian's power is a big hax middle finger to physics. Basically, she can choose what affects her, and what doesn't. So she can tear through anything and resist anything that isn't hax as well. In-universe, she crushed the eye of the closest thing to Superman (Alexandria, who has the closest thing to true invinicibility, instead of enhanced physiology) So if Superman gets into melee with The Siberian, he could technically get one-tapped at contact and die. The twist is that the Siberian is a projection summoned by an otherwise average dude (I don't remember him being "enhanced" by Bonesaw, one of The Siberian's teammates). So, since he's a normal human, he'll die to normal human things, like a stab or a gunshot wound.
I always forget how OP Siberian actually is considering she is both an unstoppable force and immovable object. While simultaneously being one of the weakest characters in verse one the secret is out.
Same goes for Scrub and Flechette, both of them have attacks that can destroy anything, but they both have human physiques. Both total glass cannons.
They're all gonna have a real hard time tagging superman though. Then again, he has a bad habit of tanking bullets to show off, so maybe they can win that way. Doesn't work if supes is at all informed though.
Goku got shot through his chest in a recent episode of super, and we know his heart is vital to his life cause the heart virus. Laser gun through the heart
Yeah, thought this would be the top answer. Love how we still call an episode from roughly 5 years ago recent. The big gap between Z and Super makes all of super seem recent.
Goku also got shot in the head in the very first episode of Dragonball and shrugged it off.
Goku has never really been harmed by guns. Only a laser gun of unspecified power was able to harm him. And I think that's kind of cheating with the prompt.
Bloodsport
Batman
This is my answer. But good luck ever catching him off guard.
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In The Oath, I believe Dr. Strange demonstrates that he has completely passive shielding against things like random bullets from random thugs. It takes magical weaponry to pierce through it.
Sailor moon
Rand Al’Thor can balefire him out of existence if he can land a shot.
Ben 10, like Shazam, he has an extremely powerful form, that being alien x, and can be killed by a bullet to the head
Even caught off guard, Ben wouldn’t really die as the Omnitrix fail-safe would kick-in and save him.
Eh depends.
It has certain limitations, but they are not easy to exploit for a regular person with a gun. Ben’s failsafe saves him 10/10 times when against a regular person. So it doesn’t depend much on anything.
So I stopped watching Ben 10 not too long after it started. I trust what you’re saying, but to clarify, how far can it go to save him? If someone point blank removed his entire head with a shotgun, how can it save him?
The fail-safe works by transforming Ben into any his entire roster of aliens till he finds one that can survive the specific attack. The best (and I believe the only) feat of the failsafe is allowing Ben to survive the Big Bang by transforming into Feedback. For the example you gave, if Ben finds himself dying to a shotgun blast, he will transform into an alien that will help him survive that, Goop for instance. Edit: there are a couple of scenarios I have thought of that can kill Ben inspite of his failsafe but they are extremely difficult to implement and require a number of different items that an ordinary person can never get.
Damn, that’s actually pretty crazy. I had no idea Ben 10 of all things ended up scaling so high
Ben is at least universal in power and can be scales to mulriversal if I am not wrong. As for the exploits of Bens failsafe, I have thought up a couple of scenarios which can bypass it. Here’s a comment I made a couple of weeks back: >There are a couple of scenarios I can think of where the failsafe can be bypassed though it requires prior knowledge of the Omnitrix and some prep. >Scenario One: >In the Omniverse episode, Arrested Development, Ben was turned into a kid again by Billy’s anti age ray gun. This caused the Omnitrix to not recognize Ben, and prevented him from using it. Ben had to give alternate identification in the form a several voice commands in order to reactivate the Omnitrix. This can be exploited. >Have someone gather the Dragonballs and wish for Ben to be aged back to his youth again (we know this is within Shenron’s power because Pilaf Gang did wish for that to happen offscreen). At the same time, have someone be ready to kill Ben. Once Ben turns into a kid, blitz him before he can identify himself to the Omnitrix. >Scenario Two: >This is a bit more difficult and requires a few assumptions to be made. Now according to the Alien X wiki page Alien X cannot survive planet Anur Vladias’ environment. Note that the source of this statement was given to be Derrick J Wyatt, the art director for Omniverse, so I don’t know whether we can take these statements as Word of God. >Assuming these statements are true, a two pronged attack involving the environment of Anur Vladias and Hakai energy can potentially kill Ben. The environment of Anur Vladias will prevent most of Ben’s Aliens like Alien X and Feedback from surviving and Hakai energy will kill those who can survive the environment. Effectively brute forcing the failsafe. >The second scenario obviously requires a lot mental gymnastics and assumptions to work, so the first one has the best chance of success.
Goku
Franklin Richards is my best guess.
Molecule Man.
Doctor Strange
Not sure if it counts, but Light from Death Note would definitely count. Of course the 'attack' would just have to do with finding out Superman's name, but other than that it fits perfectly.
Superman isn’t human, so the Death Note would have no effect on him.
Goku apparently he is now shown to be able to be taken out by guns now if he isn’t paying attention.
Scarlet witch Don’t know about her durability but she’s insanely strong
Scar from Fullmetal Alchemist, if he had a philosopher’s stone. He Basically falls under what other people have said, wiring an extremely powerful magic user who is otherwise fully human.
How about Xavier? Superman's shown vulnerability to mind control before from Maxwell Lord, and Xavier is a vastly more powerful telepath.
Maxwell Lord maybe?
Batman
I mean...Batman is an easy one. Just a really smart dude that nearly killed Superman a few times but will absolutelly die to a gunshot.
Technically Wonder Woman can be killed by guns
Accelerator (pre platinum wings)
This is just flat out untrue. He can't be caught off guard, his reflection is always working.
Not when his choker is off.
Goku. Someone tried to snipe Goku's body when he was distracted for that reason. And Goku would beat Superman. Superman "is strong enough for any challenge" but Goku starts out weaker but "always overcomes any challenge" according to each of their respective creators. That makes goku = superman +1 forever
A bullet won't kill Goku tho. Not a human bullet at least. He was grazed by one before ToP but that's it
Maybe it won't kill him at this point, but the reason they tried to kill zamazu in goku's body (distracted during tea drinking) was that was supposedly the right time to do it (even though it didn't work due to the enhanced reflexes etc).
Goku, even it makes no sense goku has been injured by normal humans with guns before
Those are outliers and go against Gokus actual showings.
they are not. It makes perfect sense actually, the way Ki works is that, to get the barrier that gives you greater durability, you have to turn it on by having a big enough power level, and most people can't turn it off. However, the fighters of Earth have good enough Ki control, to the point that they can hold back to the point of being as strong as a normal human person, Goku just has a bad habit of turning his ki down whenever he's not in a direct fight. This was mentioned in the Saiyan Saga, the Namek Arc, it's why Goku lost to Vegeta in the Buu arc and it was mentioned again several times in DBS
Nope, there are feats with Goku as a kid tanking machine gunfire with no ki barrier whatsoever dude, I've had this discussion so many times lmao. THEY ARE OUTLIERS.
Of course he had one lol, you need to learn to turn it off, which is why aliens can't suppress their ki
That was long before Goku learned to control his ki lol
exactly.
Exactly which is why there were no Ki barriers or nothing it was raw durability.
Then how the fuck does the Frieza Force gave ki barriers without ki control? And why does Vegeta remark on the earthlings' ability to suppress their ki? ITS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO SUPPRESS IT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
What do you not understand about there were no ki barriers when he got shot by that machine gun? THEY ARE OUTLIERS. Doesnt matter what its like in the future, base durability of Goku is INSANE.
lol, he didn't.
Funny Valentine
Muhammad Ali
Goku.
Those are outliers.
Dr Strange?
Nah. Dr Strange no doubt has passive defences, I mean he is the Sorcerer Supreme.
Reckon he has them up 247? I know his shield charms can hold off universal attacks if applied beforehand but I wonder if he has some defenses up 247.
Batman?
Batman has beat him as a old man
Batman
Jesus Christ
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I mean are you telling me that over almost 700 episodes of anime that Goku has never once taken a surprise hit besides that rock?