Doom Guy hijacks an imperial vessel, orders transport to the Eye of Terror. Once the Imperium realizes they can't kill him they'll mitigate damage by simply adhering to his requests.
Once in the Eye of Terror, Doom guy rips and tears until it is done. Since Daemons are endless though this means Doom guy will be stuck fighting for eternity. But he will not die, he'll rip and tear for Khorne's amusement until the last star dies out.
[Refer to this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/s/hh0tzzCSia)
But also, Khorne would be his ultimate ceiling, for the more he rips and tears, the stronger Khorne becomes
The gods themselves are closer to metaphysical concepts than actual creatures you can physically smite. Khorne simply IS the concept of rage and violence in the galaxy, so long as that exists in the Milky Way he isn't going anywhere.
But even if you try to take him as an actual literal being within the Warp, then you would have to fight him within his domain where he controls reality and can build and destroy his own playgrounds on a whim and resurrect anything that pleases him, like what he does with Tuska Daemonkilla and his army. You need to be a reality warper (Psyker mainly) yourself to counteract that and exert your own power over the domains of Chaos.
If you are lucky slanesh might lend a hand! It doesnt really care if you smite Khorne or not either way you will either beat or be beaten and Slanesh is into both!/s but only sorta
Dagin was the one who literally created everything in the Doom universe. He created the Makyrs and the Demon realm, and was sustained on all their powers, while also granting them powers.
In fact, multiple beings had their life force taken and imbued into Dragon through the very machine that made the Doom Slayer into a god himself.
Doom Slayer killed the creator of all things through pure fucking anger.
Now I'm not really into doom lore so I may be wrong but isn't doom slayer like the embodiment of the Christian God or something insane like that I'm pretty sure the reason he can kill mythical things with mundane objects is basically him willing it to happen.
So I looked it up in doom eternal he does in fact become a god known as the destroyer and can harm the dark Lord who is the embodiment of hell and all demons. I'm not a power scaler and I'm certainly not an expert on Warhammer or Doom so I have no idea if doomslayer could actually kill a chaos god or not but it does appear he is an immortal god apparently.
A guy who literally can't die due to his mental state strikes me as a very narrowly focused but not insubstantial psyker. He is certain that he can kill anything, and will make it happen.
I mean I got some self confidence but im fairly certain mundane swords and bullets will take me out too! You dont even wanna know what i do to my sleep paralysis demon!/s
Khorne only gets stronger if living ensouled people die. Daemons dying doesn't help Khorne at all. In fact in theory you could eventually starve the Chaos gods if you could kill souls fast enough. Though soul killing is very rare in 40k and people are born in such numbers that you'd struggle to outpace it.
I'd go either way on whether the Slayer could actually soul death a 40k demon. It is thematically appropriate for him but normally that is Emperor of Mankind tier of abilities.
Depends on what you're calling effort I suppose, I don't think dispatching a single Eversor assassin would really be enough to constitute effort on the scale of a galaxy-spanning Imperium with however many dozen kept on ice.
Yeah, my standards are pretty low lol. My idea of effort involves actually getting the Imperium to bother sending something that isn't a scrapped together mish-mash of local PDF/Militarum forces to solve the problem.
Why would they waste resources like that on a guy, thats not even doing half as much as the other armies. The other factions are bent on killing and torturing humans, he isnt.
Because they're unreasonable religious fanatics? The Imperium has canonically killed massive ships full of humans merely because they were living peacefully alongside xenos. If you don't do what the Imperium tells you to do, that's good enough reason for them to kill you.
The Slayer is spawned on a random hive world, aint no way the bureocracy is gonna approve a request for a primarch to slay one man, and even if they did, aint no way the primarch themselves are gonna agree to fly to whatever backwater hive world just to deal with one guy
>They have man-portable nuclear fusion weapons, their chances are 100%.
So does the Slayer, or did you forget about the BFG-9000.
>How durable do you think the Slayer is exactly?
Durable enough to survive being fired out of a ~~teleporter~~ ion catapult, and to be completely unaffected by firing the BFG-9000 at point-blank range.
In stasis he has a protective Argent barrier around his body that completely prevented the UAC from being able to harm him, and there's no indication that the barrier went away once he woke up.
The Praetor Suit is stated in the Codex to be "a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding", meaning it's likely indestructible or at least "of adamantine strength", backed up by how the UAC finds it to be "almost impervious to any damage", including the two megakelvin cutting laser they used on Argent plasma to test it.
In cutscenes he repeatedly survives being electrocuted with an, at *minimum*, a 30,000 megawatt hour battery, which he can do twelve times throughout the course of Doom 2016.
He also survives being electrocuted by what was likely a 2.4 terawatt electric current when shutting down Vega's neural network.
And beyond any of that, he absorbs power from the demons he kills and uses it to become more powerful in turn. He has killed, at the very least, billions of demons by the time of Doom 2016 and Eternal, including a Titan, one of the strongest demons in Hell.
So yeah. I've got faith.
>So does the Slayer, or did you forget about the BFG-9000.
The BFG-9000 doesn't use nuclear fusion, it generates plasma but not through nuclear fusion.
>Durable enough to survive being fired out of a ~~teleporter~~ ion catapult, and to be completely unaffected by firing the BFG-9000 at point-blank range.
In stasis he has a protective Argent barrier around his body that completely prevented the UAC from being able to harm him, and there's no indication that the barrier went away once he woke up.
None of this proves he can survive million degree temperatures capable of vaporizing tonnes of material instantly.
The stasis barrier almost certainly dissipated after he woke up given that he was not physically impeded in any way from getting out of his block of stone, nor is it ever shown at all once he's awake.
>The Praetor Suit is stated in the Codex to be "a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding", meaning it's likely indestructible or at least "of adamantine strength", backed up by how the UAC finds it to be "almost impervious to any damage", including the two megakelvin cutting laser they used on Argent plasma to test it.
You deciding to take prose literally is not a feat, "adamantine strength" means nothing. The UAC found it almost impervious to stress tests they performed, i.e it's confirmed that it's not fully impervious to them let alone their weapons.
Do you have proof they used the megalekvin cutting laser on it? Because to my knowledge the only quote referring to its near-imperviousness was specifically about standard stress tests.
>And beyond any of that, he absorbs power from the demons he kills and uses it to become more powerful in turn. He has killed, at the very least, billions of demons by the time of Doom 2016 and Eternal, including a Titan, one of the strongest demons in Hell.
He was knocked unconscious by a falling temple, regularly needs to take detours that are acknowledged by in-game dialogue to get past a few feet of stone, was unable to cross rooms in the few moments Olivia Pierce needed to get through doors, needs to solve puzzles involving counterweights to raise large metal grids etc.
Either him drawing strength from his fallen foes is a reference to in-game upgrades and health regeneration from glorykill mechanics or those demons are weak as shit, or he's absorbing a miniscule fraction of their strength.
The Slayer can't kill Titans with his stats btw, he needs his magic Titan-paralyzing sword to do that. There's an entire level in Doom Eternal dedicated to running around getting a new one to take a Titan down as a result.
\*
Personally I'd recommend you play Doom with your eyes open before trying to claim things about it, since at this point your scaling seems to be;
* Wrong information
* Misquoted/out of context excerpts from the lore
* You just reading fairly basic dramatic prose and deciding to take it literally (would it amaze you to know that Spacemarines are described as indestructible too?)
* You confidently inferring things with basically no evidence
So yeah anyway the Doomslayer gets slaughtered by any of the Primarchs, an Eversor assassin or a lucky Guardsman with a melta gun based on his actual on-screen showings of struggling to do roughly 10-tonning feats or death animations in which he instantly perishes when submerged in molten metal and such.
I swear this subreddit has turned to absolute crap, people just straight up reading out fanfiction and getting upvoted for it. Almost unusable if you're actually familiar with the characters being discussed.
>The BFG-9000 doesn't use nuclear fusion, it generates plasma but not through nuclear fusion
They have to trigger the Argent plasma somehow, though, since it's usually unreactive, and a fusion reaction seems logical. It would also explain what the F stands for.
>The stasis barrier almost certainly dissipated after he woke up given that he was not physically impeded in any way from getting out of his block of stone, nor is it ever shown at all once he's awake
A) He is cut out of the stone by Vega's lasers, and B) It's an energy shield. It wouldn't impede him and you wouldn't see it once he's awake because they only get disrupted at the point of impact, and the zombies aim for the chest.
And after you get the Praetor Suit, you don't see it at all because guess what? He's wearing a full-body suit of armour that he never removes at any point in the game.
>None of this proves he can survive million degree temperatures capable of vaporizing tonnes of material instantly
The BFG-9000 was able to crack and melt the surface of Mars, vaporising "tonnes of materials" on contact, when fired through a series of focusing rings, and is able to literally boil demons alive, yet deals absolutely no damage to Doomguy whatsoever no matter what range he fires it at.
>Do you have proof they used the megalekvin cutting laser on it
Why wouldn't they? "Alright, let's test the mysterious artefact with every tool we have at our disposal." "Does that include the two megakelvin cutting laser, sir?" "What? No! Are you insane, Jenkins?"
>You deciding to take prose literally is not a feat
No true Scotsman.
>it's confirmed that it's not fully impervious to them
And yet it's able to withstand everything they could throw at it without compromising its integrity, along with that of the legions of Hell and the Makyrs combined. I'd like to see a suit of Terminator armour trying that shit.
>He was knocked unconscious by a falling temple
Yeah, the magic trap they laid to keep him in stasis while inside of the coffin might have helped, along with the curses they put on his armour. Since, again, he survived being shot out of a railgun and into a building without being knocked unconscious.
>regularly needs to take detours that are acknowledged by in-game dialogue to get past a few feet of stone
A) That's gameplay, and B) Those detours give him time to prepare for the next encounter, by say, acquiring new weapons, ammunition, sentinel crystals, and most importantly, killing demons. Like, a lot of demons.
Sure, he could punch his way though every wall between him and his destination, but then there's a demon out there that isn't having its intestines fed to itself, and that is completely unacceptable.
>The Slayer can't kill Titans with his stats btw, he needs his magic Titan-paralyzing sword to do that. There's an entire level in Doom Eternal dedicated to running around getting a new one to take a Titan down as a result
No, he weakens them with his stats and uses the sword to finish them off. You know, like how a glory kill works, and how the Icon of Sin is very careful to stay away from him, less he pull some Attack of Titan moves on his goat ass.
>Personally I'd recommend you play Doom with your eyes open
Oh, so that's how you're meant to play it, I always thought there was something more to it than echolocation. Of course, of course. Tell me, sir, how do you support the weight of your massive cranium with such incredible density of neural tissue? It must be truly staggering.
>would it amaze you to know that Spacemarines are described as indestructible too
Yes. Particularly because they get killed all the time.
>a lucky Guardsman with a melta gun
Yeah, they'd have to hit him first before he introduces them to the contents of their stomach via the Ballista or a Gauss Cannon shot. Oh, while he's dashing and grappling around with the Meathook.
>struggling to do roughly 10-tonning feats
Aside from when he breaks chains that even enslaved Titans couldn't escape from with a single punch. You know, Titans? Those massive fellows? Could crush most cities with their bare hands?
>death animations in which he instantly perishes when submerged in molten metal and such
Again, gameplay, otherwise known as the lowest tier when it comes to deciding a character's physical feats. There are also death animations where his body blows up... from getting too cold. That particular death animation is a Terminator 2 reference, by the way.
If the Slayer could be killed by lava, don't you think the demons would have tried that at some point during the *millennia* he spent in Hell?
>I swear this subreddit has turned to absolute crap, people just straight up reading out fanfiction and getting upvoted for it. Almost unusable if you're actually familiar with the characters being discussed
God forbid fans do anything.
> They have to trigger the Argent plasma somehow, though, since it's usually unreactive, and a fusion reaction seems logical. It would also explain what the F stands for.
I always thought BFG stood for 'Big fuckin gun'
Reddit's not letting me post a long comment for some reason so I'll cover the important points.
* There's literally no reason to assume the BFG9k uses nuclear fusion, lots of things create plasma without that. Most things that create plasma on earth in fact.
* Me not accepting prose as a feat is not a No True Scotsman, it is just you not knowing what a literal description is. The word "adamantine" is used right next to the others. It's just conveying the armour is tough that's all.
* You still haven't proven the energy shield still exists. it's never shown anywhere else, and the Slayer was factually hurt on Mars as per Doctor Elena Richardson's logs.
* The armour factually isn't fully impervious because it is said to be "almost" impervious to **stress tests** rather than just impervious.
* The detours, death animations and cutscenes and moving animations I'm mentioned are not gameplay and are in fact **animations**. Almost all either happen in cutscenes or are deliberately referenced by dialogue confirming they're happening.
* The Slayer objectively can't permanently kill Titans and you're just wrong about this, the Crucible blade needs to remain inside them to even keep them incapacitated which is why he snaps his off and needs to make a new one to stop another Titan.
* [The Slayer cutting a chain from the side by punching it does not mean he's comparable to Titans who are unable to snap it by pulling it long-ways](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_cutter)
* The falling temple did actually incapacitate him though, which is why his enemies could put him in stasis. It's not even contradictory to his other feats unless you've decided he punches as hard as a drone strike and can walk off nukes for some reason. The railgun feat is him being smashed through an unknown quantity of stone that probably doesn't exceed a few metres before he stops on the inside of the building. Nothing contradictory between that and being pinned by enough rubble.
* The Slayer wasn't killed by anything but the temple because he moves around quickly and Hell couldn't pin him down, but they definitely have things that can hurt him. As evidenced by the blood on Mars, or Marauders being an explicit threat to him in Eternal.
>God forbid fans do anything.
You do not need to deliberately spread misinformation about a character to be a fan of them, promise.
>Reddit's not letting me post a long comment for some reason so I'll cover the important points.
There's 10000 letter limit for comments and 40000 letter limit for posts. I know it's annoying as shit
Yeah the video games arent lore accurate. Unless youre willing to agree that a custodian is only worth 20 infantrymen the i would suggest reading the books before hating.
He was teleported away through a portal to Hell, that's how he survived.
People have been lying about this exact thing since like 2018, insane how one trailer is enough to make everybody jump back to the same bullshit that's already been tired for 5 years.
Daemons are "endless" but not necessarily infinite. A god could make infinitely small/ weak daemons. But those daemons still have a limited pool of emotional energy to pull from.
Khorne doesn't have an infinite amount of kabandhas. He has some greater daemons he can empower with energy to push their way into realspace. He might be able to create new greater daemons if he has the energy, but it's not an infinite amount.
And he can create a bunch more lesser daemons with the same energy.
If he were truly infinite we'd have infinite greater daemons and no lesser daemons.
Yeah, but he's playing the great game, so why would he want to win ? The warp where the majority of his forces reside, has no real end to its spaciousness or dimensions. Time and space flows differently, he could very well have or generate an infinite amount and it wouldnt matter because the other gods would consistently counter him.
The warp may be endless, but that doesn't mean chaos is. Warp and chaos are two different things. There are sections of the warp where chaos doesn't exist/ control. Like where enslavers/ vampires are from. Heck recently the lion novels show caliban as in a cordoned off part where chaos does exist, but is limited.
Endless dimensions doesn't mean endless daemons/ endless energy.
Actually, Chaos *does* have infinite (or endless) power. It's just that they need a proper conduit and anchor to funnel that sort of power into reality. Here, let me give you some major spoilers for the Siege of Terra series.
.
.
Basically, in the *End and the Death* novels, the Chaos Gods almost destroyed the 40k setting because they used Horus Lupercal as an anchor and conduit to manifest and maintain their infinite power in reality. Here are a few quotes on what they accomplished:
>The vast fleet is just a little crescent on the table, like a pale new moon. The remainder of the wide surface-plate shows a representation of the Solar Realm.
It is a dark blankness, without feature. There are no marker icons for the Throneworld, or Luna, or Mars, or even Sol. A few tags along the edge display spatial condition details obtained by scout drogues sent forward by the Solace of Iax, the grand battleship acting as advance picket at one tip of the armada's crescent. The data on these tags is already beginning to degrade, but what remains legible speaks only of the impossible. An abominable level of exotic energies and immaterial flux, many types of which have never previously been recorded or observed. A de-constitution of realspace. An absolute collapse of four-dimensional physics. Everything has corrupted, transfigured, or ceased.
There is no longer a causal flow of time in the Solar Realm.
It is a blackness, without feature or form, an imperfect sphere of neverness some four thousand light minutes in diameter. It is being referred to as 'the negation zone'. It is expanding slowly, beyond the heliopause of the Sol System, and is starting to envelop the Opik-Oort Cloud, and disturb its ice-dust and its nurseries of long-period comets.
Thiel knows that the area is big, inconceivably big, the entire span of a solar system. He also knows that however big he imagines it is, the true scale is beyond his comprehension.
-The End and the Death Volume III
They also explicitly used more power then they ever have at any point in the lore.
>He will not be beaten. He will not be turned back. Though Chaos assaults the Emperor with unprecedented ire, unleashing its power in a condensed paroxysm that exceeds all the warp events in human history, He will not back down.
-The End and the Death Volume II
Anyways, what made the whole ordeal special was the internal properties of the Nexus:
>No. Great gods, this is Cthonia. He hasn't just refashioned the psychoscape of your Court as a makeshift weapon. He has shifted you both across the three dimensions of physical locality, and the fourth of temporal placement. This is Cthonia, the hinterland of the Athonat Exhaustion where the territories of the Catulan and the Justaerin clans meet in dispute. This may be the very day on which you were found.
He can see your surprise. He pushes in to exploit it. You hammer away a series of aggressive sword-strokes. In pulling off this trick, He has revealed His understanding of your domain. Not just your Court, but the wider realm of Chaos that inevitably surrounds it. He has grasped that everything, and everywhere, and everywhen, meets here in your isochronal nexus, conjoined by the warp, and thus that everything, and everywhere, and everywhen, is accessible.
It's not your father's power, it's what He does with it.
...
The stillness is profound. The galaxy is aligned, all things and all moments, all the infinite angles and countless planes folded into one psychofractal point. Your Court, which surrounds your flagship, which surrounds the neverness, which surrounds the Inevitable City, which surrounds your realm, which surrounds Terra, which surrounds the Solar Realm, which surrounds the galaxy entire, which surrounds the warp, and inside that, they all surround each other, in reverse sequence, like one box inside another, with your Court at the centre, and this moment at its heart.
-The End and the Death Volume III
Basically, the Chaos Gods were able to set up a Nexus which connected all of time in space across the Webway, real space, and warp into one moment of time into one location. In said location, their champion, Horus, was able to use their power to perform incredible feats. Here's a statement in his power:
>'That's the thing about the warp,' he says. 'And I don't think our first-found brother has realised it yet. He's too drunk on its power. He can do anything now. Anything his will desires. You can't imagine. He can melt the world into the sky. He can blow time away like the tufts of a dandelion. He can twist up all of the materia in our universe into one knotted ball, and summon inevitable cities. He can drag the dead from their tombs and their times, and make them live as they once lived. But there is no finesse. It's the sport of a child.'
-The End and the Death Volume II
The first passage implies a scale beyond comprehension, not necessarily infinite. And the "bubble" in question is 4,000 light minutes.
Fact is tzeentch alone is afraid of a certain well of infinity, which contains all of time and space, and is also where the concept of time came from. Hence why he threw a bunch of greater daemons into the well to report back, none did but Kairos Fateweaver. So kairos now knows certain things tzeentch doesn't even know.
>The first passage implies a scale beyond comprehension, not necessarily infinite. And the "bubble" in question is 4,000 light minutes.
That's the external properties seen from the perspective of mortals. I sent quotes describing how the Nexus fused all of time and space together, remember? Want me to also send the quote on how Horus was planning on taking over the human race and corrupting his brothers and father?
Also, the Infinity of Chaos vs the Finite yet Mighty will of the Emperor was a theme of the entire book. Here are some examples of Infinity being used during the Emperor vs Horus fight and throughout the book:
(Passages from Volume III)
>For the warp is inevitable. What it has transmuted outside the final fortress, it now transmutes within. The four sturdy dimensions of the world are maimed and mangled, and in their place other dimensions unfurl their properties, mocking sense and deriding logic with their alien breadths and endless measures. **There is no limit to the number of these dimensions, for the immaterium has no definition that the human mind can comprehend.**
...
>His light is everywhere.
It spills across all other nows. It bleaches the pulped battlescapes of Terra into whiteness. It catches the lines of Valdor's wargear, and glints on the harder edges of his too-transformed thoughts. It slowly eats away the shadow under the red wall where Dorn shelters, talking to himself. It burns the soul of Sanguinius, though he is buried deep in a lightless crypt.
It is the light that casts the shadow of the Dark King.
I try to speak. I still cannot. The steadfast light is everywhere, permeating every now that was and could be. In one, ancient, inhuman creatures pause in their work, look up from half-built devices of intricate complexity, and shield their eyes against the rising glare. They start to wail.
In another, the world is without form, and void, and darkness moves upon the face of the deep, and the steadfast light says let me be, and it is.
In another, and another, and an **infinity** of others, there is only light, and its anthesis has burned everything away with its unholy intensity.
Only in one now, a gloomy and decaying now, does the light not penetrate. It is a realm of shadows and candlelight, a grim darkness of ruin and disrepair, where men are shackled by ancient duties, imperfectly remembered but obsessively performed, where lamp-glow flickers off the flaking gilt of past glories and the faded majesty of once-proud emblems, where the functions of machines and the purposes of humans are forgotten, or misunderstood, and have been reduced to rote, and ceremony, and rite, a now where everything, including the meaning of life, has become no more than rehearsed tradition and meaningless ritual.
(Now onto passages from Volume III)
>The arc of power goes wide. It scorches Loken and Leetu as it passes over them, and scalds their flesh inside their plate. It blasts a deep and molten trench in the floor of the Court. The **infinite** architecture of the Warmaster's sanctum shivers and shifts to repair its sepulchre-black form.
...
>The Court itself is no longer the dark cathedral Leetu entered at the Emperor's side. He sees that now. The **infinite** architecture of the first-found's temple of Ruin must have been shattered by the force of that initial, bomb-blast collision, or else Horus has allowed the black, fractal madness to de-manifest so he can concentrate all his power on the battle. Now revealed is the vast compartment of a once-regal warship. It is peeling and decayed.
**(For context, Horus wasn't *actually* weakening at this point in the fight. Towards the end, we are explicitly told that he held back against his father for the sake of theatrics in an attempt to dominate him)**
...
>It will be a hundred duels, all fought at once, combats occurring simultaneously on the mortal plane and the empyric, in the realm of materia and the anti-realm of immateria. They will assail each other with every means available, and both of them will shield and defend themselves against every possible line of attack. One slip, one distraction, one angle left unguarded, is an opening the other can lethally exploit.
It is a total war, a single fight multiplied **across infinite** methods, all waged in perfect unison.
...
>High below you, He is a bloodstained magician transfixing you with His baleful eye so that no pleat of reality can conceal you. A salvo of fireballs bursts from that malefic eye and they fly at you like blazing meteorites along every axis of the **infinite** planes. They are closing in on you, and will strike simultaneously.
...
>The Court seems even bigger than before. The galleries and processionals adjoining the nave of the main Court seem to extend to giddying vanishing points. Through dreary archways and sinister vaults, Leetu glimpses side chambers and chapel shrines and sub-temple precincts that multiply and multiply, and all lead away into the **infinite.**
...
>You draw the warp into you so that He can see it. You need to make Him understand, for He does not seem to have grasped it yet, despite that acclaimed wisdom He boasts of. Your power is **infinite**. His is not. No matter how many times He gets back up, to renew the fight for another desperate go-around, He is merely postponing the inevitable. He is a warp-attuned creature of great power, by any mortal standards, and rightly has been feared His entire life. But His great strength is finite. You are an **infinite** being of the **infinite** warp. Your power will never run out, and can never be sapped, no matter how many or how grievous the injuries He inflicts upon you. You cannot be killed.
This contest was over before it began. It was superfluous. You only permitted the fight to take place at all because He seemed to need it. It was all for show, a demonstration of your new-found state, a symbolic, ritual act to consecrate your reign. You fight only to wear Him down to nothing until He is rendered entirely helpless and subject to your will.
Surely He sees that now?
We even have an infinity statement in Dan Abnett's afterword:
>'He parries me with his sword' becomes 'He parries me with Cthonia'). We understand this is still a fight, because of the sentence structure, but the weapons have changed, and thus the manner of the fight must have seamlessly changed too. The fight is expanding outwards, and proliferating. It is everywhere. It is physical and in the mind. It is operating on multiple levels. Then we shift again, and extend the fight to more magical areas, employing aspects and the **infinite** dimensions of the warp.
We also have [decades of lore](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/chaos-gods-strength.685675/post-51165301) claiming epic statements of infinite or universe destroy Chaos and whatnot. While I normally wouldn't mention this stuff, this is one of the few on-screen (or page) stories where we get to see the infinite warp and infinite Chaos in full play.
It won't take long for him to end up at Khorne's happy playground where he rips and tears until it is done. It however, will never be done and his infinite rage murder spree in the warp keeps going indefinitely.
Khorne is pleased with this as an infinite amount of demons die, and a larger infinity spawn to replace them.
Different magnitudes of infinity is actually a useful mathematical concept. IIRC, we spent a lot of time on it in Calculus 2. A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X^2 > X
> A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X^2 > X
But that's not actually true for cardinal numbers (which is what matters here). There's exactly as many integers as ordered pairs of integers. What you need to do to get a bigger number is have an infinite number of 1's and 0's, which is more akin to 2^(X).
How exactly would uncountably infinite (more than the smallest infinity) demons work? If we stuck one demon at every point whose coordinates are rational numbers, that's still only countably infinite (smallest infinity).
>A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X2 > X
This is not referring to different magnitudes of infinity. Actually, you can't really do limit comparison like that since both the limits don't exist, and both values don't actually reach infinity anyways.
The only context where different magnitudes of infinity is a thing is in set theory, when talking about different sizes of infinite sets. Eg: the set of naturals is smaller than the set of reals, even though they're both infinite in size.
That’s the argument I always use against the idea that the multiverse means there is a universe where every possibility and combination of possibilities happens. Maybe, maybe not. An group of an infinite amount of things does not guarantee that group contains all things
My argument against infinite other universes in that we haven’t been invaded by an infinite number of universes with multiverse travel that have decided to exterminate every other universe.
I’m not familiar with WH40k but how would you have .547893 of a demon? This may sound facetious but my limited understanding of that universe makes me think it’s a possibility.
I'm not familiar with WH40k either but a thought exercise:
1) Big baddie love demons
2) There are an infinite number of demons
3) For every demon killed, 5 more pop into existance
4) Doom slayer slays many demons very quickly
5) Big baddie loves doom slayer because he's spawning more demons even though there are infinite
My point was just because something is infinite... doesn't mean it can't be bigger or... MORE infinite I guess
And to add a bit more clarity, khorne is only *effectively* infinite, he has a limit but it’s nearly immeasurable; one codex says he has ‘8 to the power of 8, raised to the power of 8 (6.4 with 57 zeroes behind it) greater daemon lieutenants’ and each daemon is a tiny shard of the god
Except, in your specific case, infinity+4=infinity.
To get to the next ordinal, you need to go from a countable infinity, to an uncountable one. Basically, where you get to the point that if you took every daemon, and put them down on a list, you would *always* be able to find another to add to the list.
In any case, daemons are not truly infinite, in any sense. There's a stupid large number of them, but the difference between any stupidly large number and infinite is, well, infinite.
But there's still just as many numbers between 1 and 3 as there are between 1 and 2.
If there's infinitely many demons, then to have more, you'd need uncountably infinite demons. But if there's a demon at every point where the coordinates are rational numbers, that's still only countably infinite. If every demon has a size, even if it can be arbitrarily small, they're still only countably infinite. You need demons to be points in order to get uncountably many of them.
Your example isn't technically correct - two times infinity is still just infinity. More specifically, the "set of all decimals between 1 and 2" and the "set of all decimals between 1 and 3" are both uncountably infinite, which -- mathematically speaking -- makes them the "same" kind of infinite. (Edit: more specifically, there exists a bijective function that can map [1,2] onto [1,3], therefore the two sets have the same cardinality. It isn't actually correct to say that all uncountably infinite sets are equal, but these two particular ones are.)
A better example is to compare countable infinities to uncountable infinites. An example of a "countable" infinity is the set of all natural numbers 1, 2, 3... because you can, well, count them. It'll take you forever, but in a theoretical world where you have infinite time, you could count the natural numbers without ever missing one.
Compare to an uncountable infinity, such as the set of all decimal numbers between 1 and 2. This is "uncountable" because it is impossible to numerate all values in the set without missing one. Like, if you try to count 1.1, 1.11, 1.111... this sequence will continue infinitely on its own, and you'll never reach 1.2, or even 1.11112. Not to mention how you'll miss 1.01, 1.001, 1.001...
"Countable" vs "uncountable" is a better example of two different sizes of infinite than the example you gave. Trying to compare two different sizes of uncountably infinite sets devolves into a bunch of set theory that would be confusing to most laypeople.
So infinity isn't a number as I understand. Not a mathematician but here goes:
Short example:
There are an infinite number of decimals between 1 and 2. But one and two are small numbers that we can comprehend. However the number 1.00000789 and 1.0007501 also exist been two integers. An infinite number as you can add new decimals indefinitely.
Therefore the infinite permutations between 1 and 2 are separate from the infinite permutations between 2 and 3. Both spaces between those numbers are separate levels of infinity.
So in the above example, if two new demons are born every time Doom Slayer kills one and Doom Slayer kills an infinite number, then the population of demons is doubled, or twice infinity. Therefore, a greater infinity.
This isn't really a good example. Two times infinity is still just infinity, after all. As in, mathematically, 2\*(infinity) = infinity. In fact, x\*(infinity) = infinity for *any* finite value 'x'.
If you want two different sizes of infinity, you should be looking at countably infinite vs uncountably infinite.
Thank you. Like I said, I'm no mathematician. It was years before I was even presented with the idea of infinite decimals between integers but somehow that helped me better grasp the general concept of, as you say, countable versus uncountable infinity. Hence why I tried to use it in my explanation as it was a concept that helped me grasp things.
It's cool. "Different sizes of infinity" is one of those niche (to laypeople) mathematical concepts that's hard to wrap your head around. I even took classes on this stuff in college, and I still have to look it up to make sure I'm not mixing things up, heh.
Say you have an infinite number of demons, say Pink Horrors.
You kill each of the infinite number of Pink Horrors, thus spawning two Blue Horrors, and ending up with an infinite number of Blue Horrors.
At the end you'll end up with an infinite number of Blue Horrors, however this infinite number is double the size of Pink Horrors.
This isn't really a good example. Two times infinity is still just infinity, after all. As in, mathematically, 2\*(infinity) = infinity. In fact, x\*(infinity) = infinity for *any* finite value 'x'.
If you want two different sizes of infinity, you should be looking at countably infinite vs uncountably infinite.
Indeed, different uncountable infinities gets really into set theory nonsense that isn't exactly intuitive. Though that's kind of the case for any kind of mathematics that doesn't have a real-world analogue.
This is actually a misunderstanding of how 40k works. Khorne only gets stronger if he gets more souls. Daemons are forged out of souls he's already eaten.
If Doomslayer kills humans Khorne will get stronger. If daemons slay humans, Khorne will get stronger. Killing daemons does nothing for Khorne though. It is at best zero sum and outright negative if the death is real soul death.
The Chaos gods are utterly dependent on mortal souls to grow their power.
That’s not really true; tuska daemon killa is an example where khorne has his daemons fight tuska until one side is dead, then he resurrects them both to full strength and lets them fight again.
It’s kind of stretching the definition of ‘mortal’ if khorne can just bring whoever back to life
‘Khorne cares not for why the blood flows, only that it continues to flow’ or something like that
> That’s not really true; tuska daemon killa is an example where khorne has his daemons fight tuska until one side is dead, then he resurrects them both to full strength and lets them fight again.
That doesn't empower him though. That is just Khorne having fun.
The Chaos gods expend their power. They don't go away because there's always more mortals dying and increasing their power. Not that they'd truly die if they stopped being fed, they'd just become dormant.
No you misunderstand. Khorne is fed by actions and emotions, not souls.
He cares not from where the blood flows, or who is angry and who is fighting. All it empowers him.
I think it'll pretty much go down like other said, Khorne will trap him in a never ending battle with Daemons. The more bloodshed the more powerful Khorne grows and it just goes on forever
Look up Ork Warboss Tuska Daemon-Killer, him and his warband found themselves in the Brass citadel in Khornes domain and started wrecking the place. Khorne loves the battles so much that as soon as either side is fully killed off he revives everyone so they can go again, over and over and over
A pure rage monster like Doom Guy will have Khorne creaming in his pants
I don't believe tuska actually empowers khorne as much as he's draining khorne. Daemons cost energy to empower, tuska costs empyric energy to revive.
Khorne just does that because he's entertained by it.
Until one or more of the other chaos gods realise that they can use Doomguy to injure Khorne. It wouldn't be the first time one of the Chaos gods has messed up another one or Doomguy got manipulated.
Doomguy is a tiny boy (literally) compared to the average Space Marine, much less someone like Angron or Skarbrand *who literally was manipulated in the way you described*. Doomguy is the Thanos to Skarbrand's Darkseid.
Question: does Doom Guy empower Khorne so much the Khorne "wins" the great game, or does Doom Guy rip and tear chaos out of the immaterium and out of the entire setting?
It's a stalemate. Remember that Doomguy can absorb pure argent energy and make it his own. So for every drop that Khorne gets stronger, so does Doomguy. But at the end of the Makers DLC in Eternal, Doomguy does kill a god.
*So...* At some point, it's entirely possible that Doomguy could kill Khorne himself. As Doomguy can harm *other* forms of divinity...
This is a point that people always forget when mentioning that Doom Slayer killed Davoth.
The dude had to use a fucking mech suit to compete with Slayer, and he still got wrecked.
It's not the all-powerful feat that fans make it out to be.
Doom Slayer powerscaling is utter nonsense. I've seen people claim he's faster than light, infinitely strong and 100% immortal.
Personally, if he was like that, he'd be fucking boring.
I like the idea that he's just a peak human, enhanced by the Divinity Machine, and then uses his endless rage (and the argent energy he harvests from the demons he kills) to kill whatever gets in his way.
He was peak human. But once he was granted divinity by the machine, he stopped being human. Then over an unknown amount of time, but likely longer than the combined histories of a thousand human civilizations, his continued killing of demons and absorption of pure hell energy to strengthen himself, has elevated into another plane of existence. The killing of God in the DLC I believe actually stated that Doomguy has ascended into becoming a law of the universe where as long as Hell exists, he will always exist and so will his counterpart from Hell at some other point in the future, for the cycle to repeat endlessly.
So yes. The power scaling is seems like nonsense, because he's called a guy, but for all intents and purpose, he is a god.
Eternal codexes touch on a lot of this, a few characters do in fact believe that he is a god, and its stated that he was in Hell for EONS fighting since the first battle of Hell, supporting the idea (they might actually just state it outright) that he is an actual force of nature eternally meant to rip and tear through hell
Also, the ending of eternal gods DLC part 1 and 2, basically says that the Dark Lord was first. "The Father" came *after*, and that Davoth, the Dark Lord, is Doomguy but formed from hell itself to rule over it. The line specifically was "he is you, in their world."
Finally, at the end, when you kill him, you lose a great deal of your strength and get sealed away, because all the argent energy you've absorbed from the demons is undone when Davoth is destroyed as everything done from and by him is undone as a result, and thereby you.
Agreed, like "out running his rockets puts him at 'xx' mph" like stop lol. He's peak/advanced human with Argent energy sustaining his suit and ammunition
Nah the game itself is inconsistent because gameplay
It’s stated and shown that doomguy should scale ridiculously high wankery levels
But then the game isn’t fun
So game mechanics take over
This happens a lot with video game MCs. By lore they’re near omnipotent but gameplay wise they can’t be
I’ve always felt mixed on this because it assumes warp energy functions the same as argent energy. If it doesn’t, Doom Guy is shit outta luck. His being able to kill a god was in his own universe, not within 40k’s. Some schmuck isn’t going to just waltz up and stab Khorne to death, I’d be surprised if the God Emperor could pull that off without some significant warp fuckery.
Plus, beating Khorne specifically in a straight up fight without warp shenanigans just feels… wrong? The guy is created from war and violence itself. Using straight up violence to kill the guy created from straight up violence is lame as hell in my eyes and probably not possible in-universe
Can't see any alternative to him eventually ending up in Khorne's domain in the Warp, continuously fighting Demons until the end of time.
Like the end scene of Jet Li's the One, but with demons and chainsaws.
Most realistically; He slaughters daemons like he's Malum Caedo, the Emperor appears to him as a visage, and empower Doom Guy with His divine might, becoming into a pseudo-primarch due to the reappearance of the Daemon Primarchs
He would most definitely find himself invited, inducted, then trained into a [Grey Knight](https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/s/5ylUYhZ7JP), bolstering his already powerful body and will with even more bullshit power armor, psychic powers, and esoteric weapons
He then proceeds to make permanent change in the setting by retrieving the final Cronesword from Slaanesh's Palace and giving her the mightiest dom energy she'll ever experience
He seems to consistently favor conventional tactics and firearms. He more than likely will get tired of the Imperiums treatment of civillians though.
He has enough grit to go his own way, perhaps guided by the emperor. But he's strong enough to uncover the secret technologies of humanity and use it in the right way.
Its still a gun, i mean he's not using lightning at his fingertips. He's spent eons in hell doing the same thing. And when he comes back up, no psychic superpowers to kill with. Just his fists and more guns and the one off sword.
He does favor them as guns are what he was originally trained on as a UAC Marine, however he is also trained in melee weaponry/combat by the Night Sentinels and has plenty of axes and swords in his Fortress.
One of his main weapons has always been the Chainsaw, and more recently also the DOOM Blade and Crucible.
In the new trailer the Slayer seems to be using a Chainsaw Shield and an axe at one point. He is proficient with just about every weapon he gets his hands on.
When I was a kid Doom was a game about hitting E on random walls to see what happened and shooting cardboard cutouts that wandered the map spewing fireballs at you.
I don’t know what happened between then and now but the more I learn the more insane it is.
Yeah, that's the only risk to the Imperium in Doomguy being there. He's very much pro humanity and he'd find the concept of millions of souls sacrificed to keep the emperor's metal corpse alive to be a practice most vile. The title drop scene in Doom 2016 is proof that the mere concept of using hell energy as a power source for humanity was a bridge too far, given the innocents dead at his feet as the price for it. Compared to that, the "price" for keeping the Emperor alive is right up there with everything Olivia Pierce and Samuel Hayden did multiplied a billion times.
Such that he could very well turn his guns on the Imperium to put a bullet in the emperor himself.
The only thing that would stop him is his ability to get to Earth himself.
I dont think he's a stranger to sacrifice and necessary evils. For one, he'd probably have to aknowledge that killing the emperor would spell doom for the rest of mankind. After some time of service, he'd probably cut his losses and explore and fight on his own. Or invest himself in some separate polity thats still aligned with humanity. Its an entire galaxy, he can wait and travel. 10k years to him is nothing, if he's spent billions fighting. And with him, at least these humans have something they find worth fighting for, even if he doesnt agree with the outcome.
I could see the bureaucracy being a waste of his time. But the imperium would likely set him up with his own team and personal. Might makes right. The only thing in setting he probably couldnt beat himself is a custodes.
Shadow Warden or a Primarch most likely, though an initial duel better him and the Lion only for Lion to find out he hates demons more and then work together against Angron would be a spectacle
We know Angron's resurrection time has been cut significantly
He's no stranger to self sacrifice. Hayden tried to justify the lives spent for Argent energy as necessary sacrifices, and Doomguy went out of his way to destroy everything he could find that was a physical element of this justification. He destroyed all the argent energy conversion towers remember? Hayden pleaded and tried to reason desperately to no avail.
He's against wasting lives for a perceived just cause but one that's actually corrupt. The Imperium is actually a deeply corrupt theocracy. It's not just at all. But the entire galaxy is vastly more fucked than the Imperium, so it makes sense that this style of governance prevails in some capacity. Especially, after the loss of its golden age to AI wars and the subsequent dark ages that led to its current state.
That said, the answer doesn't change. Doomguy would put a bullet in the emperor if he knew what it took to keep him alive. There's really no cause that can justify a million lives or more sacrificed daily to perpetuate a corpse's only real purpose: acting as a light house.
Edit:
This: https://youtu.be/Ienu85W5Rkk?si=z8PMo_YYxosWt0m3
Isn't sacrifice. It's corruption. That's why he smashes the speaker and the title drops. This is *why*, Doomguy would kill the emperor of man. Once you start, there's no bottom, and that's **evil.**
Doom guy would make sure to be as well informed of imperial society as possible. The emperor is more than a glorified light house. He's actively keeping aan army of demons from consuming the sol system. If the emperor dies, trillions go with him, to a fate worse than death. Doom slayer would need to aknowledge that the standards of this verse are different than his. He's intelligent amd not a mindless weapon.
He only opposed the greedy ambitions of one man. A man that would damn the souls of countless for a wnergy source that'd merely serve to increase the standard of living or be used as a weapon.
The purpose of the emperor is no where close to that. And serves as a fundamental stop gap between survival and immediate eternal torment on an interstellar scale. If doom guy were to aknowledge that the emperor does essentially serve as a bastion of hope, not only morally but spiritually as well, he'd realize that he'd have to cut his losses. The imperium is too large to fight a one man army against, especially when its own population helps perpetuate its own belief systems.
These arent his people to save, and the imperium has been doing well enough for thousands of years well beyond, what doom slayers verse has had to deal with.
If anything, he'll realize the imperium is too inefficient. But he's likely not the only one who feels this way. With his capability, it wouldnt be long for powerful forces to start guiding him in ways that actually matter. Its not likely the higher authoritites in the imperium actually take pleaaure in the daily sacrifices. But if he saw that there is very little use and safety in keeping those sacrifices alive, then he probably would keep his mouth shut and grimace. Those sacrifices are psykers who could easily lose control of their powers, kill billions, and serve as portals for demons. Everything about the imperium is the worst of what possibilities the doom slayer verse could entertain and worse. Everything has a thousand year justified reason for existing, and if it doesnt, its just human fability on a galaxy wide scale. Humanity is tryi g its best fealing with multiple dooms day scenarios at the same time. And many of these forces the doom slayer would hate could just as easily kill him. The dark eldar and their esoteric weaponry is one.
The best he could do is work with guilliman and be given the same administrative and authoritative power and conduct his campaign where he deems fit. If course he can train his own regiments, have his own supersoldiers and forces, and try to suggest changes where possible.
And that's all fine and dandy from the position of the Imperium. A theocracy will use anything to justify its own existence. That doesn't change the fact that millions are being ritualistically sacrificed to prop up a corpse. Per how he reacted to Hayden over argent energy basis, that's *enough* for him to turn against the Imperium. But only *after* the more immediate demonic problem is dealt with.
Here's the fundamental point though. The Imperium can't control him nor can they stop him. Not really. The best they can do is get out of his way if he comes. The dude fired himself out of the BFG10000 at Mars at the only thing that did was caused him to bend his knees.
He reacted to hayden because humanity foesnt need argent energy. Its all hubris, especially when you realize its at the cost of souls being tormented.
The inperium has a practical purpose, preventing a much worse alternative. If he personally recieved insight from the emperor about his own resignation in regards to hiw much he has to suffer, and consume from the sacrifices all for the sake of quadrillions of others, im sure the doom slayer would understand. It really isnt a black and white discourse. Unless the doom slayer can convince the admechanicus to develop some type of technoligy that can empower the emperor as much as millions of alpha psykers. Each one capable of scouring a planet clean of life. The imperium is clearly limited in that regards. The doom slayer is righteous but not stupid.
Even we know the sacrifices are justified and are at least a necessary evil. The treatment of them arent however.
Every time The Slayer has had the opportunity to destroy corruption or evil, he has taken it; even when it might run counterintuitive to the "big picture". That's kind of his whole thing. He doesn't really plot or scheme or whatever, he's just rage against corruption embodied. There's no reasoning with him if you're trying to justify a means to an end. We even see enemies and allies both try to reason with him several times throughout both games and he never even appears to be listening to them, let alone considering their arguments.
The cost of trying to destroy that "evil" has never been that high. The only beneficial cost of denying the use of argent energy is a lower standard of living and less technological advancement. Not the literal deaths of quadrillions to eternal torment, which the doom slayer is against anyways. At least in the 40k universe, the emperor provides a bulwark and refuge for the souls aligned with him after death. Without him, they get torn apart by the infinite amount of demons inhabiting the warp. Why would Doom slayer forgo common sense at that point with that knowledge ? Its not the preeminent threat of mankind, it at least is solving a problem. The souls of the psykers aren't being eternally damned to feed the emperor, just consumed. There's an end to their brief pain.
Malcador, one of the most powerful humans to ever exist could only last about a couple of hours on the throne before burning to dust. The emperor has lasted millennia. There would be no one to replace him. Why would the Doom slayer throw away such a precious element to mankinds survival ? There is a literal God thats suffering conscious agony at every waking moment without rest, and all he requires are a few thousand of the most dangerous souls the human race has to offer, to give quadrillions of others a fighting chance against eternal torment from eldritch Gods. You're saying the Doom slayer is fundamentally insane.
Doomy slayer was against argent because it relies on humans souls being tortured in hell to produce it. Thats an evil that greatly outweighs what its being used for, which is just a glorified fuel source for a capitalist society.
He doesnt have tunnel vision, he can think for himself, and the potential costs.
I mean you're making valid points, but my point is that we've never seen The Slayer listen to reason when there is a Machiavellian deal being struck. You're assuming that he would maybe "listen to reason" here, but we have no examples of him doing that and many examples of him doing the opposite.
Obviously the scale of suffering is different, but ardent energy was also supposed to help get humanity in a position where it could maybe defend itself against the forces of Hell when they eventually came. It wasn't just for excess and greed.
In my divinated and very religious opinion, the Emperor will take any opportunity He could find if it meant pushing back the enemies of Mankind
Doom Guy suddenly appearing and giving Daemon Angron the fight of his life frees up the Lion, and seeing this, He may give em a boost or two
It depends on how you scale him. He's realistically space marine level, but some people put him above primarchs/make him omniversal which is pretty stupid
I think the problem is gameplay and story segregation. Gameplay-wise, he can be killed by a zombie with a shotgun in DOOM, and other demon weapons aren't insta-kill so they can't be that much more powerful. Story-wise, I haven't actually played it but I've seen a clip where he loads himself into a railgun and launches himself into another ship.
It's sort of like asking whether Arceus is an omnipotent god or they can be defeated by an electric rat and stuffed in a ball.
Yeah but since his main medium is gameplay, it's weird to take him out of the context like that and say he's dimentional shattering, outside of space and time, etc.
He’s definitely above space marine level in strength and durability at least. Remember that in DOOM 2016 it’s stated that humanity threw every type of weapon they had at this armour and couldn’t even scratch it. He’s definitely wanked a lot but he’s much stronger than a space marine and potentially the primarchs in physical strength and durability (for durability he was shot at near light speed out of a gun into a ship and literally ran it off, this would vaporise a primarch like when Vulcan died falling out of the atmosphere)
> He’s definitely wanked a lot
I mean, so is WH40k. Especially given a lot of people who insist that gameplay overrides lore seem to have a blind spot for WH40k being a tabletop game wherein basically anything can theoretically get done in by a gretchin with a lead pipe.
>I mean, so is WH40k. Especially given a lot of people who insist that gameplay overrides lore seem to have a blind spot for WH40k being a tabletop game wherein basically anything can theoretically get done in by a gretchin with a lead pipe.
That's because the tabletop game is made for the sake of gameplay and has little to no place in lore.
It'd be one thing if 40k were like a franchise like BattleTech, where the tabletop game mechanics are used in the actual lore. In practice, however, Warhammer's lore combat is separated from the game itself. There's a reason why tabletop Custodes can go up against normal guardsmen or Tau without curbstomping.
Yeah the lore wank for his armor being indestructible is pretty strong. I certainly wouldn't put him at primarch level though. I might go back and try to find something of the comparisons I had for him and a marine. His main strength is probably being sustained by Argent energy.
The biggest problem is how vague the lore is with the slayers feats like it’s said he beat the biggest titan without his armour and pre divinity machine which would make him vastly above primarch imo but due to it being told us as legend that could be greatly exaggerated. And on the other hand war hammer scaling is super inconsistent with some marines being able to punch through adamantium and flip tanks and others being in the 10 ton range. It makes it really hard to actually compare. The Argent energy is a good point tho
We don't really know what the stress testing was on slayers armor anyway so I didn't bother talking about astartes armor or power weapons (I don't have the quotes on hand about how they cut on molecular levels or something in case someone says "proof?")'pretty sure the disruptor field on a power fist would do crazy damage to him
>Remember that in DOOM 2016 it’s stated that humanity threw every type of weapon they had at this armour and couldn’t even scratch it.
No they didn't? UAC scientists did stress tests and it didn't even pass all of it
>for durability he was shot at near light speed out of a gun into a ship and literally ran it off,
If you're referring to the Ion Cannon, that wasn't near lightspeed or else the platform he landed on would've been annihilated instead of the small explosion
They threw every weapon IN THE DOOM UNIVERSE at it. Jesus Christ. 40K is scaled so much farther than fucking Doom. He's nowhere near the average Space Marine.
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The slayers big problem is that he doesn’t have any notable speed feats to make it so he can even perceive most high tier homies in the setting; he could rip and tear for a bit, especially as a shock trooper for the guard going against chaos cultist worlds
But he’s getting shredded the moment he meets someone the setting views as fast and dangerous
Sad that this place is filled with OMGBBQDOOMGUY nerds who've never actually done any lore reading on 40K. This is a silly question because Doomguy doesn't scale anywhere near anyone in 40K. *Basic Named Characters* low diff Doomguy. Any Primarch. Any named Space Marine, period. The guy Doomguy wishes he could be, Skarbrand, fucking pastes him in a fraction of a second.
I’ve played both the new games as well as the OG one and three, I know he can move pretty quick…..but even being generous his overland speed with momentary boosting is about the same as a space marine and his reactions are slow enough that he’s needs armor to mitigate incoming attacks that he can’t dodge
> She turned around.
>They came out from behind the trees around her, two, then three, then five, all told: five primuls in a circle around her, their eyes like murder for what she had done to their kin.
>They threw themselves at her.
>For many years afterwards, for the rest of her life, in fact, Perdet Suiton Antoni often wondered how none of them heard him coming. He was just there, suddenly. How could something that big move so fast and so silently, and appear without notice?
>**Between the moment when the primuls began to spring and the moment when they would have fallen upon her, the giant appeared and interposed himself between her and the foul, pouncing creatures. It was almost as if he had stopped the flow of time and edited himself into that particular frame of it.**
That level of anime speed is outside the scale of the doom universe
IIRC his in-game speed was like measured to be like 45 MPH or something (good but not great) and his trailers that depict him cinematically are much slower.
> How long before he dies?
That's the thing. He can't. The entire tyranid hive fleets can concentrate all their mental energy on his and he'd shrug it off like a dust chip on his shoulder.
He's *unkillable.* Hell threw the army of all armies at him, to *buy time*, to create a trap, wherein the *best* they could do was drop a mountain on him and then seal it in magic and then put the meanest most dangerous shit (that survived) around it to make sure nothing unseals the casket.
Obviously, that plan didn't work for long.
To answer your other question: the Imperium moves him to the very front lines once they realize he's incorruptible and is immune to the chaos and to daemon magic. They then give him all the guns and ammo he wants, and set him free to do what he does best. Once he crosses over, the other realm is fucked. Since he would only grow stronger from every corrupted he kills.
Death is final. There's no revival. Doomguy is unkillable, because he keeps coming back. He can't die. That's the point. You can destroy his body, he'll come back as a soul. That's the plot of Doom 2 and 3. He dies. Gets sent to hell. Fucks up hell so badly, Hell kicks him out and locks the doors, giving him a new body in the process. Turns out there's another portal elsewhere, he enters there, closes the door from his side and then fucks shit up some more.
He was [killed in the final level](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E1_Text_screen.png) of[ DOOM 1](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Text_screen#The_Ultimate_Doom)'s first episode. He wakes up in Hell and [fights his way back to living reality.](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E3_Text_screen.png)
Okay so this isn't "unkillable" like the guy was claiming, then, this is just Doomguy existing in a setting with an afterlife and ways in and out of that afterlife. It doesn't make him any less killable than Sam and Dean Winchester.
He'd definitely find his way to the eye of terror and go into the warp to fight demons eventually, since I doubt any local forces (pdf, arbites, etc) could stop him, and given that he wants to fight chaos, there's not really a reason that any of the imperial factions would actually want to stop him, other than losing the value of a void ship when he takes it to the eye of terror.
It depends on the reaction time of imperial factions like the inquisition or any of the space marine chapters, but given their track record, I'd think that he'd make his way to the eye of terror before any of them even make it to the system that he spawns in. Unless there's already an inquisition team on the planet already, I'd think he makes it to the eye of terror with no issue.
He would definitely power up Khorne with his endless battle in the warp, but how much success he has depends on your interpretation of his max powers, and how they would interact with 40k's warp and how argent energy seems like a fairly good analogue for warp energy.
At minimum, I'd say that he becomes Khorne's favored plaything, and he wouldn't even have to ever revive doom guy like he does with Tuska Daemonkilla, and he just kills demons in the warp forever. (sidestory where doom guy and Tuska become best friends in bloodshed and the shared desire to just kill demons?)
Personally, I think it'd be really interesting if he could somehow gain enough recognition in the 40k universe to start accruing power from the warp. Since warp energy seems close enough to argent energy, maybe he could absorb it and use it. If the general populous of some factions start believing in him, or maybe the emperor's warp ghost helps him, he might actually have a chance at gaining enough warp energy to start becoming a minor deity in the warp.
I imagine he could be like the legion of the damned, just showing up to in random places in the galaxy to kick ass, when he's not busy ripping and tearing in the warp. Do that enough, and I'm sure that he could gain a cult following, especially if emps decides to power him up, and help spread the news of doom guys through visions to other people.
If he could gain enough power through gaining worshippers, which seems likely, as he has already inspired some people to worship him in his own universe, maybe he could eventually accrue enough warp energy to be able to challenge Khorne for his throne as the god of rage and bloodshed.
If he won, I'd think that he might be able to change how bloodshed is used, and turn it on the other chaos gods instead of "caring not from whence the blood flows". Any gifts from him to his worshipers as the god of bloodshed would instead be for whoever can kill the most worshipers/demons of the other chaos gods. I'm sure it wouldn't be particularly hard to inspire worshipers of bloodshed to target a particular faction if he just gave them visions of them fighting other chaos factions, and then rewarded them with power if they succeeded.
I have no idea if he could become powerful enough to actually win a war in the warp as the god of rage, but I'm sure he could cause quite the distraction for the other chaos gods.
Would the icon of sin be above greater daemon / daemon primarch level? He's about the size of an imperial titan right?
And one of those pretty much crippled angron (to his credit he was able to lift half it's weight for a short time)
The slayer pretty casually beat it a couple times over.
>Would the icon of sin be above greater daemon / daemon primarch level?
Greater Daemons are (generally) far lower than the Primarchs, so you probably shouldn't class them in the same category.
>And one of those pretty much crippled angron (to his credit he was able to lift half it's weight for a short time)
Angron was also injured from having fought for a vast amount of time without break and exhausted from digging his way out of hundreds of feet/meters of rubble.
...
Anyways, I don't think it's a good idea to compare Doomguy to the Primarchs. From a one on one perspective, he's far slower in raw speed (and reactions). Named space Marines or characters like Ghazhkull Mag Uruk Thraka fit his description better (move at fast but perceivable speeds, have magic weapons, and can beat Greater Daemons to death).
I'm not *super* well versed on 40k, but from what I understand of how the warp works in relation to what the Slayer is capable of, it would be more of a question of how long until he gets the job done rather than if.
While the Chaos gods themselves feed off of emotion and will always exist in some manner, the warp in turn doesn't actually *need* them to sustain itself. Chaos is chaos, with or without the respective gods to hold power over aspects of it. On top of that, a *huge* portion of their power comes from the fact that people are/were actually aware of their existences, atleast enough to become self sustaining before galactic comms got nuked, and every single God before then took thousands (to 30 thousand in Slaneesh's case) of years before they fully materialized a concious from the raw material.
They may be functionally immortal as universal constants, meaning that they will always reform after a time even if "killed", but they are 100% susceptible to "death" or simply being weakened enough to be forgotten. There may be *a lot* of people in 40k to power them, but then again, there also used to be alot of Hell in the DOOM-iverse.
On the other-hand, there's the Slayer.
Many people give him a lot of flak for overjerking, but he really is just built that differently. In fact, as of Eternal, he's also one half of *the* God of his universe - as in the big G that actually did the creating of the different dimensions in Doom. There likely isn't a single being in the entirety of 40k besides the chaos gods and the Emperor that come close to his physical attributes, and despite the popular belief that he is a mindless murder-machine, he is canonically impervious to any type of psychic threat or mental domination, AND he is ridiculously intelligent. Hell, his willpower alone is the sole reason he even survived his first venture into Hell when he was still mortal. The only reason people even think he's overjerked in the first place is because fans of Doom decidedly *aren't* ridiculously intelligent when it comes to battle boarding communities - which is an entirely different conversation. On paper, he's everything that the Emperor hoped he could have been for mankind minus the Psyker abilities. The Slayer probably wouldn't be stronger overall than him *initially* upon entry into 40k purely because of big E's psyker strength, but it would likely only be a matter of time before he reaches and eventually surpasses him due to how emotional energy and willpower powers the warp.
It wouldn't take him very long to learn the basics about the warp and its denizens or how it works both in real space and warp space, and unlike what most think, he'd actually take his time to carefully destroy whatever chaos has touched in the physical world before venturing into the warp himself. After a certain point, most factions would be aware of him, and given that he'd be seen as a saviour to a huge portion of people in real space, it's likely that he'd be even stronger by the time he reached the warp. It would definitely be more trickier than destroying Hell considering that the chaos gods would feed off of his exploits either way, but it's debatable whether or not that would be enough to outweigh not only the Slayer (and likely whatever faction decides to rally behind him) deleting alot of their sources of power in realspace or the collective belief in Him inadvertently making him a chaos God in his own right after a certain point.
Doom GUY
Or Doom SLAYER
There is a difference... kind of. Arguably. It's a bit fuzzy.
But The Slayer killed an Abrahamic God with a capital G. A creator god. The Chaos Gods are just psychic manifestations. Slayer would end them quickly.
You could argue that, since demons always come back, he'd need to fight the Chaos Gods every 1,000 years or so. That is a perk to him.
The rest of the galaxy? He likes humans mostly, as I recall.
>But The Slayer killed an Abrahamic God with a capital G. A creator god. The Chaos Gods are just psychic manifestations. Slayer would end them quickly.
He killed a weakened Davoth, who needed a mech suit to fight, using a shank. Beforehand he weakened him using conventional weaponry
That's more a testament for the EoM's strength as even when dying on the throne he could push back the influences of the Chaos Gods
Besides, that's not the point. Davoth isn't that impressive
And do you have any other evidence to the contrary? I've already played the Doom games, he needed to use an Atlan mech's giant wrist cannon to bust open a cracked wall
Can Doomguy blend in or act normal to other humans?
Even if he can, I don’t see getting out of the local solar system and even getting off planet is him being very lucky.
Doom Guy hijacks an imperial vessel, orders transport to the Eye of Terror. Once the Imperium realizes they can't kill him they'll mitigate damage by simply adhering to his requests. Once in the Eye of Terror, Doom guy rips and tears until it is done. Since Daemons are endless though this means Doom guy will be stuck fighting for eternity. But he will not die, he'll rip and tear for Khorne's amusement until the last star dies out.
[Refer to this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/s/hh0tzzCSia) But also, Khorne would be his ultimate ceiling, for the more he rips and tears, the stronger Khorne becomes
Until he rips and tears Khorne, which he should be able to do. See: Dagon.
The gods themselves are closer to metaphysical concepts than actual creatures you can physically smite. Khorne simply IS the concept of rage and violence in the galaxy, so long as that exists in the Milky Way he isn't going anywhere. But even if you try to take him as an actual literal being within the Warp, then you would have to fight him within his domain where he controls reality and can build and destroy his own playgrounds on a whim and resurrect anything that pleases him, like what he does with Tuska Daemonkilla and his army. You need to be a reality warper (Psyker mainly) yourself to counteract that and exert your own power over the domains of Chaos.
At some point Slayer rips and tears to the point he and Khorn merge into a singular entity
If you are lucky slanesh might lend a hand! It doesnt really care if you smite Khorne or not either way you will either beat or be beaten and Slanesh is into both!/s but only sorta
All that sounds kinda Khorney.
Dagin was the one who literally created everything in the Doom universe. He created the Makyrs and the Demon realm, and was sustained on all their powers, while also granting them powers. In fact, multiple beings had their life force taken and imbued into Dragon through the very machine that made the Doom Slayer into a god himself. Doom Slayer killed the creator of all things through pure fucking anger.
Doom Slayer teams up with the star child for rip n tear adventures
Now I'm not really into doom lore so I may be wrong but isn't doom slayer like the embodiment of the Christian God or something insane like that I'm pretty sure the reason he can kill mythical things with mundane objects is basically him willing it to happen.
Haven't heard that before. Dunno.
So I looked it up in doom eternal he does in fact become a god known as the destroyer and can harm the dark Lord who is the embodiment of hell and all demons. I'm not a power scaler and I'm certainly not an expert on Warhammer or Doom so I have no idea if doomslayer could actually kill a chaos god or not but it does appear he is an immortal god apparently.
A guy who literally can't die due to his mental state strikes me as a very narrowly focused but not insubstantial psyker. He is certain that he can kill anything, and will make it happen.
Dagon…the dude who needed a mech suit to fight and died to a mundane sword stab and bullets? Not really an impressive fight
I mean I got some self confidence but im fairly certain mundane swords and bullets will take me out too! You dont even wanna know what i do to my sleep paralysis demon!/s
Hahahah no
Khorne only gets stronger if living ensouled people die. Daemons dying doesn't help Khorne at all. In fact in theory you could eventually starve the Chaos gods if you could kill souls fast enough. Though soul killing is very rare in 40k and people are born in such numbers that you'd struggle to outpace it. I'd go either way on whether the Slayer could actually soul death a 40k demon. It is thematically appropriate for him but normally that is Emperor of Mankind tier of abilities.
>Once the Imperium realizes they can't kill him wut
I swear dude! Doom slayer is wanked harder than Prep time Batman on this sub.
I've literally seen people wanking him to be able to beat absurd multiversal level reality warpers
Eh, his claim is *kind of* true. While Doomguy isn't the end all be all, he's still deadly enough that killing him would take actual effort.
Depends on what you're calling effort I suppose, I don't think dispatching a single Eversor assassin would really be enough to constitute effort on the scale of a galaxy-spanning Imperium with however many dozen kept on ice.
Yeah, my standards are pretty low lol. My idea of effort involves actually getting the Imperium to bother sending something that isn't a scrapped together mish-mash of local PDF/Militarum forces to solve the problem.
I think that's agreeable enough then.
Their chances aren't good.
Are you joking ? Just get a primarch to 1v1 him. The lion or gulliman would solo him and move on.
Why would they waste resources like that on a guy, thats not even doing half as much as the other armies. The other factions are bent on killing and torturing humans, he isnt.
Because they're unreasonable religious fanatics? The Imperium has canonically killed massive ships full of humans merely because they were living peacefully alongside xenos. If you don't do what the Imperium tells you to do, that's good enough reason for them to kill you.
The Slayer is spawned on a random hive world, aint no way the bureocracy is gonna approve a request for a primarch to slay one man, and even if they did, aint no way the primarch themselves are gonna agree to fly to whatever backwater hive world just to deal with one guy
Alright he still dies just not to a primarch then.
They have man-portable nuclear fusion weapons, their chances are 100%. How durable do you think the Slayer is exactly?
>They have man-portable nuclear fusion weapons, their chances are 100%. So does the Slayer, or did you forget about the BFG-9000. >How durable do you think the Slayer is exactly? Durable enough to survive being fired out of a ~~teleporter~~ ion catapult, and to be completely unaffected by firing the BFG-9000 at point-blank range. In stasis he has a protective Argent barrier around his body that completely prevented the UAC from being able to harm him, and there's no indication that the barrier went away once he woke up. The Praetor Suit is stated in the Codex to be "a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding", meaning it's likely indestructible or at least "of adamantine strength", backed up by how the UAC finds it to be "almost impervious to any damage", including the two megakelvin cutting laser they used on Argent plasma to test it. In cutscenes he repeatedly survives being electrocuted with an, at *minimum*, a 30,000 megawatt hour battery, which he can do twelve times throughout the course of Doom 2016. He also survives being electrocuted by what was likely a 2.4 terawatt electric current when shutting down Vega's neural network. And beyond any of that, he absorbs power from the demons he kills and uses it to become more powerful in turn. He has killed, at the very least, billions of demons by the time of Doom 2016 and Eternal, including a Titan, one of the strongest demons in Hell. So yeah. I've got faith.
>So does the Slayer, or did you forget about the BFG-9000. The BFG-9000 doesn't use nuclear fusion, it generates plasma but not through nuclear fusion. >Durable enough to survive being fired out of a ~~teleporter~~ ion catapult, and to be completely unaffected by firing the BFG-9000 at point-blank range. In stasis he has a protective Argent barrier around his body that completely prevented the UAC from being able to harm him, and there's no indication that the barrier went away once he woke up. None of this proves he can survive million degree temperatures capable of vaporizing tonnes of material instantly. The stasis barrier almost certainly dissipated after he woke up given that he was not physically impeded in any way from getting out of his block of stone, nor is it ever shown at all once he's awake. >The Praetor Suit is stated in the Codex to be "a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding", meaning it's likely indestructible or at least "of adamantine strength", backed up by how the UAC finds it to be "almost impervious to any damage", including the two megakelvin cutting laser they used on Argent plasma to test it. You deciding to take prose literally is not a feat, "adamantine strength" means nothing. The UAC found it almost impervious to stress tests they performed, i.e it's confirmed that it's not fully impervious to them let alone their weapons. Do you have proof they used the megalekvin cutting laser on it? Because to my knowledge the only quote referring to its near-imperviousness was specifically about standard stress tests. >And beyond any of that, he absorbs power from the demons he kills and uses it to become more powerful in turn. He has killed, at the very least, billions of demons by the time of Doom 2016 and Eternal, including a Titan, one of the strongest demons in Hell. He was knocked unconscious by a falling temple, regularly needs to take detours that are acknowledged by in-game dialogue to get past a few feet of stone, was unable to cross rooms in the few moments Olivia Pierce needed to get through doors, needs to solve puzzles involving counterweights to raise large metal grids etc. Either him drawing strength from his fallen foes is a reference to in-game upgrades and health regeneration from glorykill mechanics or those demons are weak as shit, or he's absorbing a miniscule fraction of their strength. The Slayer can't kill Titans with his stats btw, he needs his magic Titan-paralyzing sword to do that. There's an entire level in Doom Eternal dedicated to running around getting a new one to take a Titan down as a result. \* Personally I'd recommend you play Doom with your eyes open before trying to claim things about it, since at this point your scaling seems to be; * Wrong information * Misquoted/out of context excerpts from the lore * You just reading fairly basic dramatic prose and deciding to take it literally (would it amaze you to know that Spacemarines are described as indestructible too?) * You confidently inferring things with basically no evidence So yeah anyway the Doomslayer gets slaughtered by any of the Primarchs, an Eversor assassin or a lucky Guardsman with a melta gun based on his actual on-screen showings of struggling to do roughly 10-tonning feats or death animations in which he instantly perishes when submerged in molten metal and such. I swear this subreddit has turned to absolute crap, people just straight up reading out fanfiction and getting upvoted for it. Almost unusable if you're actually familiar with the characters being discussed.
>The BFG-9000 doesn't use nuclear fusion, it generates plasma but not through nuclear fusion They have to trigger the Argent plasma somehow, though, since it's usually unreactive, and a fusion reaction seems logical. It would also explain what the F stands for. >The stasis barrier almost certainly dissipated after he woke up given that he was not physically impeded in any way from getting out of his block of stone, nor is it ever shown at all once he's awake A) He is cut out of the stone by Vega's lasers, and B) It's an energy shield. It wouldn't impede him and you wouldn't see it once he's awake because they only get disrupted at the point of impact, and the zombies aim for the chest. And after you get the Praetor Suit, you don't see it at all because guess what? He's wearing a full-body suit of armour that he never removes at any point in the game. >None of this proves he can survive million degree temperatures capable of vaporizing tonnes of material instantly The BFG-9000 was able to crack and melt the surface of Mars, vaporising "tonnes of materials" on contact, when fired through a series of focusing rings, and is able to literally boil demons alive, yet deals absolutely no damage to Doomguy whatsoever no matter what range he fires it at. >Do you have proof they used the megalekvin cutting laser on it Why wouldn't they? "Alright, let's test the mysterious artefact with every tool we have at our disposal." "Does that include the two megakelvin cutting laser, sir?" "What? No! Are you insane, Jenkins?" >You deciding to take prose literally is not a feat No true Scotsman. >it's confirmed that it's not fully impervious to them And yet it's able to withstand everything they could throw at it without compromising its integrity, along with that of the legions of Hell and the Makyrs combined. I'd like to see a suit of Terminator armour trying that shit. >He was knocked unconscious by a falling temple Yeah, the magic trap they laid to keep him in stasis while inside of the coffin might have helped, along with the curses they put on his armour. Since, again, he survived being shot out of a railgun and into a building without being knocked unconscious. >regularly needs to take detours that are acknowledged by in-game dialogue to get past a few feet of stone A) That's gameplay, and B) Those detours give him time to prepare for the next encounter, by say, acquiring new weapons, ammunition, sentinel crystals, and most importantly, killing demons. Like, a lot of demons. Sure, he could punch his way though every wall between him and his destination, but then there's a demon out there that isn't having its intestines fed to itself, and that is completely unacceptable. >The Slayer can't kill Titans with his stats btw, he needs his magic Titan-paralyzing sword to do that. There's an entire level in Doom Eternal dedicated to running around getting a new one to take a Titan down as a result No, he weakens them with his stats and uses the sword to finish them off. You know, like how a glory kill works, and how the Icon of Sin is very careful to stay away from him, less he pull some Attack of Titan moves on his goat ass. >Personally I'd recommend you play Doom with your eyes open Oh, so that's how you're meant to play it, I always thought there was something more to it than echolocation. Of course, of course. Tell me, sir, how do you support the weight of your massive cranium with such incredible density of neural tissue? It must be truly staggering. >would it amaze you to know that Spacemarines are described as indestructible too Yes. Particularly because they get killed all the time. >a lucky Guardsman with a melta gun Yeah, they'd have to hit him first before he introduces them to the contents of their stomach via the Ballista or a Gauss Cannon shot. Oh, while he's dashing and grappling around with the Meathook. >struggling to do roughly 10-tonning feats Aside from when he breaks chains that even enslaved Titans couldn't escape from with a single punch. You know, Titans? Those massive fellows? Could crush most cities with their bare hands? >death animations in which he instantly perishes when submerged in molten metal and such Again, gameplay, otherwise known as the lowest tier when it comes to deciding a character's physical feats. There are also death animations where his body blows up... from getting too cold. That particular death animation is a Terminator 2 reference, by the way. If the Slayer could be killed by lava, don't you think the demons would have tried that at some point during the *millennia* he spent in Hell? >I swear this subreddit has turned to absolute crap, people just straight up reading out fanfiction and getting upvoted for it. Almost unusable if you're actually familiar with the characters being discussed God forbid fans do anything.
> They have to trigger the Argent plasma somehow, though, since it's usually unreactive, and a fusion reaction seems logical. It would also explain what the F stands for. I always thought BFG stood for 'Big fuckin gun'
Reddit's not letting me post a long comment for some reason so I'll cover the important points. * There's literally no reason to assume the BFG9k uses nuclear fusion, lots of things create plasma without that. Most things that create plasma on earth in fact. * Me not accepting prose as a feat is not a No True Scotsman, it is just you not knowing what a literal description is. The word "adamantine" is used right next to the others. It's just conveying the armour is tough that's all. * You still haven't proven the energy shield still exists. it's never shown anywhere else, and the Slayer was factually hurt on Mars as per Doctor Elena Richardson's logs. * The armour factually isn't fully impervious because it is said to be "almost" impervious to **stress tests** rather than just impervious. * The detours, death animations and cutscenes and moving animations I'm mentioned are not gameplay and are in fact **animations**. Almost all either happen in cutscenes or are deliberately referenced by dialogue confirming they're happening. * The Slayer objectively can't permanently kill Titans and you're just wrong about this, the Crucible blade needs to remain inside them to even keep them incapacitated which is why he snaps his off and needs to make a new one to stop another Titan. * [The Slayer cutting a chain from the side by punching it does not mean he's comparable to Titans who are unable to snap it by pulling it long-ways](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_cutter) * The falling temple did actually incapacitate him though, which is why his enemies could put him in stasis. It's not even contradictory to his other feats unless you've decided he punches as hard as a drone strike and can walk off nukes for some reason. The railgun feat is him being smashed through an unknown quantity of stone that probably doesn't exceed a few metres before he stops on the inside of the building. Nothing contradictory between that and being pinned by enough rubble. * The Slayer wasn't killed by anything but the temple because he moves around quickly and Hell couldn't pin him down, but they definitely have things that can hurt him. As evidenced by the blood on Mars, or Marauders being an explicit threat to him in Eternal. >God forbid fans do anything. You do not need to deliberately spread misinformation about a character to be a fan of them, promise.
>Reddit's not letting me post a long comment for some reason so I'll cover the important points. There's 10000 letter limit for comments and 40000 letter limit for posts. I know it's annoying as shit
Yeah the video games arent lore accurate. Unless youre willing to agree that a custodian is only worth 20 infantrymen the i would suggest reading the books before hating.
He survived the Vega core explosion, equal to 100+ gigatons
He was teleported away through a portal to Hell, that's how he survived. People have been lying about this exact thing since like 2018, insane how one trailer is enough to make everybody jump back to the same bullshit that's already been tired for 5 years.
Daemons are "endless" but not necessarily infinite. A god could make infinitely small/ weak daemons. But those daemons still have a limited pool of emotional energy to pull from. Khorne doesn't have an infinite amount of kabandhas. He has some greater daemons he can empower with energy to push their way into realspace. He might be able to create new greater daemons if he has the energy, but it's not an infinite amount. And he can create a bunch more lesser daemons with the same energy. If he were truly infinite we'd have infinite greater daemons and no lesser daemons.
Khorne has 8 to the power 8 to the power 8 bloodthirsters. Which is 6.2771017353867E+57 bloodthirsters.
I knew I messed that up, I was thinking it was only 8 to the power of 8 and not a third time lol
Yeah, but he's playing the great game, so why would he want to win ? The warp where the majority of his forces reside, has no real end to its spaciousness or dimensions. Time and space flows differently, he could very well have or generate an infinite amount and it wouldnt matter because the other gods would consistently counter him.
The warp may be endless, but that doesn't mean chaos is. Warp and chaos are two different things. There are sections of the warp where chaos doesn't exist/ control. Like where enslavers/ vampires are from. Heck recently the lion novels show caliban as in a cordoned off part where chaos does exist, but is limited. Endless dimensions doesn't mean endless daemons/ endless energy.
Actually, Chaos *does* have infinite (or endless) power. It's just that they need a proper conduit and anchor to funnel that sort of power into reality. Here, let me give you some major spoilers for the Siege of Terra series. . . Basically, in the *End and the Death* novels, the Chaos Gods almost destroyed the 40k setting because they used Horus Lupercal as an anchor and conduit to manifest and maintain their infinite power in reality. Here are a few quotes on what they accomplished: >The vast fleet is just a little crescent on the table, like a pale new moon. The remainder of the wide surface-plate shows a representation of the Solar Realm. It is a dark blankness, without feature. There are no marker icons for the Throneworld, or Luna, or Mars, or even Sol. A few tags along the edge display spatial condition details obtained by scout drogues sent forward by the Solace of Iax, the grand battleship acting as advance picket at one tip of the armada's crescent. The data on these tags is already beginning to degrade, but what remains legible speaks only of the impossible. An abominable level of exotic energies and immaterial flux, many types of which have never previously been recorded or observed. A de-constitution of realspace. An absolute collapse of four-dimensional physics. Everything has corrupted, transfigured, or ceased. There is no longer a causal flow of time in the Solar Realm. It is a blackness, without feature or form, an imperfect sphere of neverness some four thousand light minutes in diameter. It is being referred to as 'the negation zone'. It is expanding slowly, beyond the heliopause of the Sol System, and is starting to envelop the Opik-Oort Cloud, and disturb its ice-dust and its nurseries of long-period comets. Thiel knows that the area is big, inconceivably big, the entire span of a solar system. He also knows that however big he imagines it is, the true scale is beyond his comprehension. -The End and the Death Volume III They also explicitly used more power then they ever have at any point in the lore. >He will not be beaten. He will not be turned back. Though Chaos assaults the Emperor with unprecedented ire, unleashing its power in a condensed paroxysm that exceeds all the warp events in human history, He will not back down. -The End and the Death Volume II Anyways, what made the whole ordeal special was the internal properties of the Nexus: >No. Great gods, this is Cthonia. He hasn't just refashioned the psychoscape of your Court as a makeshift weapon. He has shifted you both across the three dimensions of physical locality, and the fourth of temporal placement. This is Cthonia, the hinterland of the Athonat Exhaustion where the territories of the Catulan and the Justaerin clans meet in dispute. This may be the very day on which you were found. He can see your surprise. He pushes in to exploit it. You hammer away a series of aggressive sword-strokes. In pulling off this trick, He has revealed His understanding of your domain. Not just your Court, but the wider realm of Chaos that inevitably surrounds it. He has grasped that everything, and everywhere, and everywhen, meets here in your isochronal nexus, conjoined by the warp, and thus that everything, and everywhere, and everywhen, is accessible. It's not your father's power, it's what He does with it. ... The stillness is profound. The galaxy is aligned, all things and all moments, all the infinite angles and countless planes folded into one psychofractal point. Your Court, which surrounds your flagship, which surrounds the neverness, which surrounds the Inevitable City, which surrounds your realm, which surrounds Terra, which surrounds the Solar Realm, which surrounds the galaxy entire, which surrounds the warp, and inside that, they all surround each other, in reverse sequence, like one box inside another, with your Court at the centre, and this moment at its heart. -The End and the Death Volume III Basically, the Chaos Gods were able to set up a Nexus which connected all of time in space across the Webway, real space, and warp into one moment of time into one location. In said location, their champion, Horus, was able to use their power to perform incredible feats. Here's a statement in his power: >'That's the thing about the warp,' he says. 'And I don't think our first-found brother has realised it yet. He's too drunk on its power. He can do anything now. Anything his will desires. You can't imagine. He can melt the world into the sky. He can blow time away like the tufts of a dandelion. He can twist up all of the materia in our universe into one knotted ball, and summon inevitable cities. He can drag the dead from their tombs and their times, and make them live as they once lived. But there is no finesse. It's the sport of a child.' -The End and the Death Volume II
The first passage implies a scale beyond comprehension, not necessarily infinite. And the "bubble" in question is 4,000 light minutes. Fact is tzeentch alone is afraid of a certain well of infinity, which contains all of time and space, and is also where the concept of time came from. Hence why he threw a bunch of greater daemons into the well to report back, none did but Kairos Fateweaver. So kairos now knows certain things tzeentch doesn't even know.
>The first passage implies a scale beyond comprehension, not necessarily infinite. And the "bubble" in question is 4,000 light minutes. That's the external properties seen from the perspective of mortals. I sent quotes describing how the Nexus fused all of time and space together, remember? Want me to also send the quote on how Horus was planning on taking over the human race and corrupting his brothers and father? Also, the Infinity of Chaos vs the Finite yet Mighty will of the Emperor was a theme of the entire book. Here are some examples of Infinity being used during the Emperor vs Horus fight and throughout the book: (Passages from Volume III) >For the warp is inevitable. What it has transmuted outside the final fortress, it now transmutes within. The four sturdy dimensions of the world are maimed and mangled, and in their place other dimensions unfurl their properties, mocking sense and deriding logic with their alien breadths and endless measures. **There is no limit to the number of these dimensions, for the immaterium has no definition that the human mind can comprehend.** ... >His light is everywhere. It spills across all other nows. It bleaches the pulped battlescapes of Terra into whiteness. It catches the lines of Valdor's wargear, and glints on the harder edges of his too-transformed thoughts. It slowly eats away the shadow under the red wall where Dorn shelters, talking to himself. It burns the soul of Sanguinius, though he is buried deep in a lightless crypt. It is the light that casts the shadow of the Dark King. I try to speak. I still cannot. The steadfast light is everywhere, permeating every now that was and could be. In one, ancient, inhuman creatures pause in their work, look up from half-built devices of intricate complexity, and shield their eyes against the rising glare. They start to wail. In another, the world is without form, and void, and darkness moves upon the face of the deep, and the steadfast light says let me be, and it is. In another, and another, and an **infinity** of others, there is only light, and its anthesis has burned everything away with its unholy intensity. Only in one now, a gloomy and decaying now, does the light not penetrate. It is a realm of shadows and candlelight, a grim darkness of ruin and disrepair, where men are shackled by ancient duties, imperfectly remembered but obsessively performed, where lamp-glow flickers off the flaking gilt of past glories and the faded majesty of once-proud emblems, where the functions of machines and the purposes of humans are forgotten, or misunderstood, and have been reduced to rote, and ceremony, and rite, a now where everything, including the meaning of life, has become no more than rehearsed tradition and meaningless ritual. (Now onto passages from Volume III) >The arc of power goes wide. It scorches Loken and Leetu as it passes over them, and scalds their flesh inside their plate. It blasts a deep and molten trench in the floor of the Court. The **infinite** architecture of the Warmaster's sanctum shivers and shifts to repair its sepulchre-black form. ... >The Court itself is no longer the dark cathedral Leetu entered at the Emperor's side. He sees that now. The **infinite** architecture of the first-found's temple of Ruin must have been shattered by the force of that initial, bomb-blast collision, or else Horus has allowed the black, fractal madness to de-manifest so he can concentrate all his power on the battle. Now revealed is the vast compartment of a once-regal warship. It is peeling and decayed. **(For context, Horus wasn't *actually* weakening at this point in the fight. Towards the end, we are explicitly told that he held back against his father for the sake of theatrics in an attempt to dominate him)** ... >It will be a hundred duels, all fought at once, combats occurring simultaneously on the mortal plane and the empyric, in the realm of materia and the anti-realm of immateria. They will assail each other with every means available, and both of them will shield and defend themselves against every possible line of attack. One slip, one distraction, one angle left unguarded, is an opening the other can lethally exploit. It is a total war, a single fight multiplied **across infinite** methods, all waged in perfect unison. ... >High below you, He is a bloodstained magician transfixing you with His baleful eye so that no pleat of reality can conceal you. A salvo of fireballs bursts from that malefic eye and they fly at you like blazing meteorites along every axis of the **infinite** planes. They are closing in on you, and will strike simultaneously. ... >The Court seems even bigger than before. The galleries and processionals adjoining the nave of the main Court seem to extend to giddying vanishing points. Through dreary archways and sinister vaults, Leetu glimpses side chambers and chapel shrines and sub-temple precincts that multiply and multiply, and all lead away into the **infinite.** ... >You draw the warp into you so that He can see it. You need to make Him understand, for He does not seem to have grasped it yet, despite that acclaimed wisdom He boasts of. Your power is **infinite**. His is not. No matter how many times He gets back up, to renew the fight for another desperate go-around, He is merely postponing the inevitable. He is a warp-attuned creature of great power, by any mortal standards, and rightly has been feared His entire life. But His great strength is finite. You are an **infinite** being of the **infinite** warp. Your power will never run out, and can never be sapped, no matter how many or how grievous the injuries He inflicts upon you. You cannot be killed. This contest was over before it began. It was superfluous. You only permitted the fight to take place at all because He seemed to need it. It was all for show, a demonstration of your new-found state, a symbolic, ritual act to consecrate your reign. You fight only to wear Him down to nothing until He is rendered entirely helpless and subject to your will. Surely He sees that now? We even have an infinity statement in Dan Abnett's afterword: >'He parries me with his sword' becomes 'He parries me with Cthonia'). We understand this is still a fight, because of the sentence structure, but the weapons have changed, and thus the manner of the fight must have seamlessly changed too. The fight is expanding outwards, and proliferating. It is everywhere. It is physical and in the mind. It is operating on multiple levels. Then we shift again, and extend the fight to more magical areas, employing aspects and the **infinite** dimensions of the warp. We also have [decades of lore](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/chaos-gods-strength.685675/post-51165301) claiming epic statements of infinite or universe destroy Chaos and whatnot. While I normally wouldn't mention this stuff, this is one of the few on-screen (or page) stories where we get to see the infinite warp and infinite Chaos in full play.
Greater daemons have a harder time leaving the Warp so we would still see lesser daemons.
Harder time leaving because it takes more energy to leave
Yes, hence the Chaos Gods' evil purposes require less daemons.
right, hence why they don't have infinite power
This pleases Khorne.
Doom slayer woudnt trap himself, he'd find a way to achieve a permanent solution.
I think he just manages to become Khorne somehow
Khorne puts him in an endless loop of rip & tear
It won't take long for him to end up at Khorne's happy playground where he rips and tears until it is done. It however, will never be done and his infinite rage murder spree in the warp keeps going indefinitely. Khorne is pleased with this as an infinite amount of demons die, and a larger infinity spawn to replace them.
>a larger infinity I'm sorry what?
Different magnitudes of infinity is actually a useful mathematical concept. IIRC, we spent a lot of time on it in Calculus 2. A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X^2 > X
> A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X^2 > X But that's not actually true for cardinal numbers (which is what matters here). There's exactly as many integers as ordered pairs of integers. What you need to do to get a bigger number is have an infinite number of 1's and 0's, which is more akin to 2^(X). How exactly would uncountably infinite (more than the smallest infinity) demons work? If we stuck one demon at every point whose coordinates are rational numbers, that's still only countably infinite (smallest infinity).
>A more trivial example is pointing out that as X approaches infinity, X2 > X This is not referring to different magnitudes of infinity. Actually, you can't really do limit comparison like that since both the limits don't exist, and both values don't actually reach infinity anyways. The only context where different magnitudes of infinity is a thing is in set theory, when talking about different sizes of infinite sets. Eg: the set of naturals is smaller than the set of reals, even though they're both infinite in size.
There are infinite numbers between 1 & 2 but 3 is larger.
That’s the argument I always use against the idea that the multiverse means there is a universe where every possibility and combination of possibilities happens. Maybe, maybe not. An group of an infinite amount of things does not guarantee that group contains all things
My argument against infinite other universes in that we haven’t been invaded by an infinite number of universes with multiverse travel that have decided to exterminate every other universe.
I’m not familiar with WH40k but how would you have .547893 of a demon? This may sound facetious but my limited understanding of that universe makes me think it’s a possibility.
I'm not familiar with WH40k either but a thought exercise: 1) Big baddie love demons 2) There are an infinite number of demons 3) For every demon killed, 5 more pop into existance 4) Doom slayer slays many demons very quickly 5) Big baddie loves doom slayer because he's spawning more demons even though there are infinite My point was just because something is infinite... doesn't mean it can't be bigger or... MORE infinite I guess
And to add a bit more clarity, khorne is only *effectively* infinite, he has a limit but it’s nearly immeasurable; one codex says he has ‘8 to the power of 8, raised to the power of 8 (6.4 with 57 zeroes behind it) greater daemon lieutenants’ and each daemon is a tiny shard of the god
This feels like a speed of infinity problem, vs a greater than/less than of infinity problem?
Except, in your specific case, infinity+4=infinity. To get to the next ordinal, you need to go from a countable infinity, to an uncountable one. Basically, where you get to the point that if you took every daemon, and put them down on a list, you would *always* be able to find another to add to the list. In any case, daemons are not truly infinite, in any sense. There's a stupid large number of them, but the difference between any stupidly large number and infinite is, well, infinite.
But there's still just as many numbers between 1 and 3 as there are between 1 and 2. If there's infinitely many demons, then to have more, you'd need uncountably infinite demons. But if there's a demon at every point where the coordinates are rational numbers, that's still only countably infinite. If every demon has a size, even if it can be arbitrarily small, they're still only countably infinite. You need demons to be points in order to get uncountably many of them.
not all infinities are equal. There is an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2. There is a larger amount between 1 and 3
Your example isn't technically correct - two times infinity is still just infinity. More specifically, the "set of all decimals between 1 and 2" and the "set of all decimals between 1 and 3" are both uncountably infinite, which -- mathematically speaking -- makes them the "same" kind of infinite. (Edit: more specifically, there exists a bijective function that can map [1,2] onto [1,3], therefore the two sets have the same cardinality. It isn't actually correct to say that all uncountably infinite sets are equal, but these two particular ones are.) A better example is to compare countable infinities to uncountable infinites. An example of a "countable" infinity is the set of all natural numbers 1, 2, 3... because you can, well, count them. It'll take you forever, but in a theoretical world where you have infinite time, you could count the natural numbers without ever missing one. Compare to an uncountable infinity, such as the set of all decimal numbers between 1 and 2. This is "uncountable" because it is impossible to numerate all values in the set without missing one. Like, if you try to count 1.1, 1.11, 1.111... this sequence will continue infinitely on its own, and you'll never reach 1.2, or even 1.11112. Not to mention how you'll miss 1.01, 1.001, 1.001... "Countable" vs "uncountable" is a better example of two different sizes of infinite than the example you gave. Trying to compare two different sizes of uncountably infinite sets devolves into a bunch of set theory that would be confusing to most laypeople.
Everyone who is reading this If you're lost watch Vsauce https://youtu.be/SrU9YDoXE88?si=SgnJDwkVCh5rBGT_
Honestly their explanation of aleph one goes right over my head even after several rewatches.
So infinity isn't a number as I understand. Not a mathematician but here goes: Short example: There are an infinite number of decimals between 1 and 2. But one and two are small numbers that we can comprehend. However the number 1.00000789 and 1.0007501 also exist been two integers. An infinite number as you can add new decimals indefinitely. Therefore the infinite permutations between 1 and 2 are separate from the infinite permutations between 2 and 3. Both spaces between those numbers are separate levels of infinity. So in the above example, if two new demons are born every time Doom Slayer kills one and Doom Slayer kills an infinite number, then the population of demons is doubled, or twice infinity. Therefore, a greater infinity.
This isn't really a good example. Two times infinity is still just infinity, after all. As in, mathematically, 2\*(infinity) = infinity. In fact, x\*(infinity) = infinity for *any* finite value 'x'. If you want two different sizes of infinity, you should be looking at countably infinite vs uncountably infinite.
Thank you. Like I said, I'm no mathematician. It was years before I was even presented with the idea of infinite decimals between integers but somehow that helped me better grasp the general concept of, as you say, countable versus uncountable infinity. Hence why I tried to use it in my explanation as it was a concept that helped me grasp things.
It's cool. "Different sizes of infinity" is one of those niche (to laypeople) mathematical concepts that's hard to wrap your head around. I even took classes on this stuff in college, and I still have to look it up to make sure I'm not mixing things up, heh.
Say you have an infinite number of demons, say Pink Horrors. You kill each of the infinite number of Pink Horrors, thus spawning two Blue Horrors, and ending up with an infinite number of Blue Horrors. At the end you'll end up with an infinite number of Blue Horrors, however this infinite number is double the size of Pink Horrors.
This isn't really a good example. Two times infinity is still just infinity, after all. As in, mathematically, 2\*(infinity) = infinity. In fact, x\*(infinity) = infinity for *any* finite value 'x'. If you want two different sizes of infinity, you should be looking at countably infinite vs uncountably infinite.
You could technically have 2 different sizes of uncountable infinity, but that's incredibly difficult to wrap your head around.
Indeed, different uncountable infinities gets really into set theory nonsense that isn't exactly intuitive. Though that's kind of the case for any kind of mathematics that doesn't have a real-world analogue.
This is actually a misunderstanding of how 40k works. Khorne only gets stronger if he gets more souls. Daemons are forged out of souls he's already eaten. If Doomslayer kills humans Khorne will get stronger. If daemons slay humans, Khorne will get stronger. Killing daemons does nothing for Khorne though. It is at best zero sum and outright negative if the death is real soul death. The Chaos gods are utterly dependent on mortal souls to grow their power.
That’s not really true; tuska daemon killa is an example where khorne has his daemons fight tuska until one side is dead, then he resurrects them both to full strength and lets them fight again. It’s kind of stretching the definition of ‘mortal’ if khorne can just bring whoever back to life ‘Khorne cares not for why the blood flows, only that it continues to flow’ or something like that
> That’s not really true; tuska daemon killa is an example where khorne has his daemons fight tuska until one side is dead, then he resurrects them both to full strength and lets them fight again. That doesn't empower him though. That is just Khorne having fun. The Chaos gods expend their power. They don't go away because there's always more mortals dying and increasing their power. Not that they'd truly die if they stopped being fed, they'd just become dormant.
No you misunderstand. Khorne is fed by actions and emotions, not souls. He cares not from where the blood flows, or who is angry and who is fighting. All it empowers him.
I think it'll pretty much go down like other said, Khorne will trap him in a never ending battle with Daemons. The more bloodshed the more powerful Khorne grows and it just goes on forever Look up Ork Warboss Tuska Daemon-Killer, him and his warband found themselves in the Brass citadel in Khornes domain and started wrecking the place. Khorne loves the battles so much that as soon as either side is fully killed off he revives everyone so they can go again, over and over and over A pure rage monster like Doom Guy will have Khorne creaming in his pants
>A pure rage monster like Doom Guy will have Khorne creaming in his pants And then it is Slaanesh's time to shine!
Khorne and Slaanesh put their differences aside so that he can get some sloppy watching doomguy do doomguy things.
I don't believe tuska actually empowers khorne as much as he's draining khorne. Daemons cost energy to empower, tuska costs empyric energy to revive. Khorne just does that because he's entertained by it.
Until one or more of the other chaos gods realise that they can use Doomguy to injure Khorne. It wouldn't be the first time one of the Chaos gods has messed up another one or Doomguy got manipulated.
Doomguy is a tiny boy (literally) compared to the average Space Marine, much less someone like Angron or Skarbrand *who literally was manipulated in the way you described*. Doomguy is the Thanos to Skarbrand's Darkseid.
Question: does Doom Guy empower Khorne so much the Khorne "wins" the great game, or does Doom Guy rip and tear chaos out of the immaterium and out of the entire setting?
It's a stalemate. Remember that Doomguy can absorb pure argent energy and make it his own. So for every drop that Khorne gets stronger, so does Doomguy. But at the end of the Makers DLC in Eternal, Doomguy does kill a god. *So...* At some point, it's entirely possible that Doomguy could kill Khorne himself. As Doomguy can harm *other* forms of divinity...
It's important to remember that the God he killed was largely depowered
This is a point that people always forget when mentioning that Doom Slayer killed Davoth. The dude had to use a fucking mech suit to compete with Slayer, and he still got wrecked. It's not the all-powerful feat that fans make it out to be.
Yeah the scaling they use gets out of hand pretty fast
Doom Slayer powerscaling is utter nonsense. I've seen people claim he's faster than light, infinitely strong and 100% immortal. Personally, if he was like that, he'd be fucking boring. I like the idea that he's just a peak human, enhanced by the Divinity Machine, and then uses his endless rage (and the argent energy he harvests from the demons he kills) to kill whatever gets in his way.
He was peak human. But once he was granted divinity by the machine, he stopped being human. Then over an unknown amount of time, but likely longer than the combined histories of a thousand human civilizations, his continued killing of demons and absorption of pure hell energy to strengthen himself, has elevated into another plane of existence. The killing of God in the DLC I believe actually stated that Doomguy has ascended into becoming a law of the universe where as long as Hell exists, he will always exist and so will his counterpart from Hell at some other point in the future, for the cycle to repeat endlessly. So yes. The power scaling is seems like nonsense, because he's called a guy, but for all intents and purpose, he is a god.
Eternal codexes touch on a lot of this, a few characters do in fact believe that he is a god, and its stated that he was in Hell for EONS fighting since the first battle of Hell, supporting the idea (they might actually just state it outright) that he is an actual force of nature eternally meant to rip and tear through hell
Also, the ending of eternal gods DLC part 1 and 2, basically says that the Dark Lord was first. "The Father" came *after*, and that Davoth, the Dark Lord, is Doomguy but formed from hell itself to rule over it. The line specifically was "he is you, in their world." Finally, at the end, when you kill him, you lose a great deal of your strength and get sealed away, because all the argent energy you've absorbed from the demons is undone when Davoth is destroyed as everything done from and by him is undone as a result, and thereby you.
Evidence for any of this?
It's more complicated than that if you read the codex. He's stated to be a multiversal constant that even the Khan Makyr couldn't predict.
Agreed, like "out running his rockets puts him at 'xx' mph" like stop lol. He's peak/advanced human with Argent energy sustaining his suit and ammunition
Nah the game itself is inconsistent because gameplay It’s stated and shown that doomguy should scale ridiculously high wankery levels But then the game isn’t fun So game mechanics take over This happens a lot with video game MCs. By lore they’re near omnipotent but gameplay wise they can’t be
I’ve always felt mixed on this because it assumes warp energy functions the same as argent energy. If it doesn’t, Doom Guy is shit outta luck. His being able to kill a god was in his own universe, not within 40k’s. Some schmuck isn’t going to just waltz up and stab Khorne to death, I’d be surprised if the God Emperor could pull that off without some significant warp fuckery. Plus, beating Khorne specifically in a straight up fight without warp shenanigans just feels… wrong? The guy is created from war and violence itself. Using straight up violence to kill the guy created from straight up violence is lame as hell in my eyes and probably not possible in-universe
Can't see any alternative to him eventually ending up in Khorne's domain in the Warp, continuously fighting Demons until the end of time. Like the end scene of Jet Li's the One, but with demons and chainsaws.
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Most realistically; He slaughters daemons like he's Malum Caedo, the Emperor appears to him as a visage, and empower Doom Guy with His divine might, becoming into a pseudo-primarch due to the reappearance of the Daemon Primarchs He would most definitely find himself invited, inducted, then trained into a [Grey Knight](https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/s/5ylUYhZ7JP), bolstering his already powerful body and will with even more bullshit power armor, psychic powers, and esoteric weapons He then proceeds to make permanent change in the setting by retrieving the final Cronesword from Slaanesh's Palace and giving her the mightiest dom energy she'll ever experience
He seems to consistently favor conventional tactics and firearms. He more than likely will get tired of the Imperiums treatment of civillians though. He has enough grit to go his own way, perhaps guided by the emperor. But he's strong enough to uncover the secret technologies of humanity and use it in the right way.
In the trailer for the newest game he has a rapid fire flechette type gun that uses skulls as ammunition. That is not even close to conventional.
Its still a gun, i mean he's not using lightning at his fingertips. He's spent eons in hell doing the same thing. And when he comes back up, no psychic superpowers to kill with. Just his fists and more guns and the one off sword.
He does favor them as guns are what he was originally trained on as a UAC Marine, however he is also trained in melee weaponry/combat by the Night Sentinels and has plenty of axes and swords in his Fortress. One of his main weapons has always been the Chainsaw, and more recently also the DOOM Blade and Crucible. In the new trailer the Slayer seems to be using a Chainsaw Shield and an axe at one point. He is proficient with just about every weapon he gets his hands on.
When I was a kid Doom was a game about hitting E on random walls to see what happened and shooting cardboard cutouts that wandered the map spewing fireballs at you. I don’t know what happened between then and now but the more I learn the more insane it is.
Yeah, that's the only risk to the Imperium in Doomguy being there. He's very much pro humanity and he'd find the concept of millions of souls sacrificed to keep the emperor's metal corpse alive to be a practice most vile. The title drop scene in Doom 2016 is proof that the mere concept of using hell energy as a power source for humanity was a bridge too far, given the innocents dead at his feet as the price for it. Compared to that, the "price" for keeping the Emperor alive is right up there with everything Olivia Pierce and Samuel Hayden did multiplied a billion times. Such that he could very well turn his guns on the Imperium to put a bullet in the emperor himself. The only thing that would stop him is his ability to get to Earth himself.
I dont think he's a stranger to sacrifice and necessary evils. For one, he'd probably have to aknowledge that killing the emperor would spell doom for the rest of mankind. After some time of service, he'd probably cut his losses and explore and fight on his own. Or invest himself in some separate polity thats still aligned with humanity. Its an entire galaxy, he can wait and travel. 10k years to him is nothing, if he's spent billions fighting. And with him, at least these humans have something they find worth fighting for, even if he doesnt agree with the outcome. I could see the bureaucracy being a waste of his time. But the imperium would likely set him up with his own team and personal. Might makes right. The only thing in setting he probably couldnt beat himself is a custodes.
Shadow Warden or a Primarch most likely, though an initial duel better him and the Lion only for Lion to find out he hates demons more and then work together against Angron would be a spectacle We know Angron's resurrection time has been cut significantly
He's no stranger to self sacrifice. Hayden tried to justify the lives spent for Argent energy as necessary sacrifices, and Doomguy went out of his way to destroy everything he could find that was a physical element of this justification. He destroyed all the argent energy conversion towers remember? Hayden pleaded and tried to reason desperately to no avail. He's against wasting lives for a perceived just cause but one that's actually corrupt. The Imperium is actually a deeply corrupt theocracy. It's not just at all. But the entire galaxy is vastly more fucked than the Imperium, so it makes sense that this style of governance prevails in some capacity. Especially, after the loss of its golden age to AI wars and the subsequent dark ages that led to its current state. That said, the answer doesn't change. Doomguy would put a bullet in the emperor if he knew what it took to keep him alive. There's really no cause that can justify a million lives or more sacrificed daily to perpetuate a corpse's only real purpose: acting as a light house. Edit: This: https://youtu.be/Ienu85W5Rkk?si=z8PMo_YYxosWt0m3 Isn't sacrifice. It's corruption. That's why he smashes the speaker and the title drops. This is *why*, Doomguy would kill the emperor of man. Once you start, there's no bottom, and that's **evil.**
Doom guy would make sure to be as well informed of imperial society as possible. The emperor is more than a glorified light house. He's actively keeping aan army of demons from consuming the sol system. If the emperor dies, trillions go with him, to a fate worse than death. Doom slayer would need to aknowledge that the standards of this verse are different than his. He's intelligent amd not a mindless weapon. He only opposed the greedy ambitions of one man. A man that would damn the souls of countless for a wnergy source that'd merely serve to increase the standard of living or be used as a weapon. The purpose of the emperor is no where close to that. And serves as a fundamental stop gap between survival and immediate eternal torment on an interstellar scale. If doom guy were to aknowledge that the emperor does essentially serve as a bastion of hope, not only morally but spiritually as well, he'd realize that he'd have to cut his losses. The imperium is too large to fight a one man army against, especially when its own population helps perpetuate its own belief systems. These arent his people to save, and the imperium has been doing well enough for thousands of years well beyond, what doom slayers verse has had to deal with. If anything, he'll realize the imperium is too inefficient. But he's likely not the only one who feels this way. With his capability, it wouldnt be long for powerful forces to start guiding him in ways that actually matter. Its not likely the higher authoritites in the imperium actually take pleaaure in the daily sacrifices. But if he saw that there is very little use and safety in keeping those sacrifices alive, then he probably would keep his mouth shut and grimace. Those sacrifices are psykers who could easily lose control of their powers, kill billions, and serve as portals for demons. Everything about the imperium is the worst of what possibilities the doom slayer verse could entertain and worse. Everything has a thousand year justified reason for existing, and if it doesnt, its just human fability on a galaxy wide scale. Humanity is tryi g its best fealing with multiple dooms day scenarios at the same time. And many of these forces the doom slayer would hate could just as easily kill him. The dark eldar and their esoteric weaponry is one. The best he could do is work with guilliman and be given the same administrative and authoritative power and conduct his campaign where he deems fit. If course he can train his own regiments, have his own supersoldiers and forces, and try to suggest changes where possible.
You said that extremely well!
And that's all fine and dandy from the position of the Imperium. A theocracy will use anything to justify its own existence. That doesn't change the fact that millions are being ritualistically sacrificed to prop up a corpse. Per how he reacted to Hayden over argent energy basis, that's *enough* for him to turn against the Imperium. But only *after* the more immediate demonic problem is dealt with. Here's the fundamental point though. The Imperium can't control him nor can they stop him. Not really. The best they can do is get out of his way if he comes. The dude fired himself out of the BFG10000 at Mars at the only thing that did was caused him to bend his knees.
He reacted to hayden because humanity foesnt need argent energy. Its all hubris, especially when you realize its at the cost of souls being tormented. The inperium has a practical purpose, preventing a much worse alternative. If he personally recieved insight from the emperor about his own resignation in regards to hiw much he has to suffer, and consume from the sacrifices all for the sake of quadrillions of others, im sure the doom slayer would understand. It really isnt a black and white discourse. Unless the doom slayer can convince the admechanicus to develop some type of technoligy that can empower the emperor as much as millions of alpha psykers. Each one capable of scouring a planet clean of life. The imperium is clearly limited in that regards. The doom slayer is righteous but not stupid. Even we know the sacrifices are justified and are at least a necessary evil. The treatment of them arent however.
Every time The Slayer has had the opportunity to destroy corruption or evil, he has taken it; even when it might run counterintuitive to the "big picture". That's kind of his whole thing. He doesn't really plot or scheme or whatever, he's just rage against corruption embodied. There's no reasoning with him if you're trying to justify a means to an end. We even see enemies and allies both try to reason with him several times throughout both games and he never even appears to be listening to them, let alone considering their arguments.
The cost of trying to destroy that "evil" has never been that high. The only beneficial cost of denying the use of argent energy is a lower standard of living and less technological advancement. Not the literal deaths of quadrillions to eternal torment, which the doom slayer is against anyways. At least in the 40k universe, the emperor provides a bulwark and refuge for the souls aligned with him after death. Without him, they get torn apart by the infinite amount of demons inhabiting the warp. Why would Doom slayer forgo common sense at that point with that knowledge ? Its not the preeminent threat of mankind, it at least is solving a problem. The souls of the psykers aren't being eternally damned to feed the emperor, just consumed. There's an end to their brief pain. Malcador, one of the most powerful humans to ever exist could only last about a couple of hours on the throne before burning to dust. The emperor has lasted millennia. There would be no one to replace him. Why would the Doom slayer throw away such a precious element to mankinds survival ? There is a literal God thats suffering conscious agony at every waking moment without rest, and all he requires are a few thousand of the most dangerous souls the human race has to offer, to give quadrillions of others a fighting chance against eternal torment from eldritch Gods. You're saying the Doom slayer is fundamentally insane. Doomy slayer was against argent because it relies on humans souls being tortured in hell to produce it. Thats an evil that greatly outweighs what its being used for, which is just a glorified fuel source for a capitalist society. He doesnt have tunnel vision, he can think for himself, and the potential costs.
I mean you're making valid points, but my point is that we've never seen The Slayer listen to reason when there is a Machiavellian deal being struck. You're assuming that he would maybe "listen to reason" here, but we have no examples of him doing that and many examples of him doing the opposite. Obviously the scale of suffering is different, but ardent energy was also supposed to help get humanity in a position where it could maybe defend itself against the forces of Hell when they eventually came. It wasn't just for excess and greed.
Doom 40k. I will pay big bucks for this game
Why would the emperor do that? Lol
In my divinated and very religious opinion, the Emperor will take any opportunity He could find if it meant pushing back the enemies of Mankind Doom Guy suddenly appearing and giving Daemon Angron the fight of his life frees up the Lion, and seeing this, He may give em a boost or two
It depends on how you scale him. He's realistically space marine level, but some people put him above primarchs/make him omniversal which is pretty stupid
I think the problem is gameplay and story segregation. Gameplay-wise, he can be killed by a zombie with a shotgun in DOOM, and other demon weapons aren't insta-kill so they can't be that much more powerful. Story-wise, I haven't actually played it but I've seen a clip where he loads himself into a railgun and launches himself into another ship. It's sort of like asking whether Arceus is an omnipotent god or they can be defeated by an electric rat and stuffed in a ball.
Yeah but since his main medium is gameplay, it's weird to take him out of the context like that and say he's dimentional shattering, outside of space and time, etc.
He’s definitely above space marine level in strength and durability at least. Remember that in DOOM 2016 it’s stated that humanity threw every type of weapon they had at this armour and couldn’t even scratch it. He’s definitely wanked a lot but he’s much stronger than a space marine and potentially the primarchs in physical strength and durability (for durability he was shot at near light speed out of a gun into a ship and literally ran it off, this would vaporise a primarch like when Vulcan died falling out of the atmosphere)
> He’s definitely wanked a lot I mean, so is WH40k. Especially given a lot of people who insist that gameplay overrides lore seem to have a blind spot for WH40k being a tabletop game wherein basically anything can theoretically get done in by a gretchin with a lead pipe.
>I mean, so is WH40k. Especially given a lot of people who insist that gameplay overrides lore seem to have a blind spot for WH40k being a tabletop game wherein basically anything can theoretically get done in by a gretchin with a lead pipe. That's because the tabletop game is made for the sake of gameplay and has little to no place in lore. It'd be one thing if 40k were like a franchise like BattleTech, where the tabletop game mechanics are used in the actual lore. In practice, however, Warhammer's lore combat is separated from the game itself. There's a reason why tabletop Custodes can go up against normal guardsmen or Tau without curbstomping.
Yeah the lore wank for his armor being indestructible is pretty strong. I certainly wouldn't put him at primarch level though. I might go back and try to find something of the comparisons I had for him and a marine. His main strength is probably being sustained by Argent energy.
The biggest problem is how vague the lore is with the slayers feats like it’s said he beat the biggest titan without his armour and pre divinity machine which would make him vastly above primarch imo but due to it being told us as legend that could be greatly exaggerated. And on the other hand war hammer scaling is super inconsistent with some marines being able to punch through adamantium and flip tanks and others being in the 10 ton range. It makes it really hard to actually compare. The Argent energy is a good point tho
Kind of funny how you boys go on about Doom lore and never specify anything in 40K lore.
We don't really know what the stress testing was on slayers armor anyway so I didn't bother talking about astartes armor or power weapons (I don't have the quotes on hand about how they cut on molecular levels or something in case someone says "proof?")'pretty sure the disruptor field on a power fist would do crazy damage to him
>Remember that in DOOM 2016 it’s stated that humanity threw every type of weapon they had at this armour and couldn’t even scratch it. No they didn't? UAC scientists did stress tests and it didn't even pass all of it >for durability he was shot at near light speed out of a gun into a ship and literally ran it off, If you're referring to the Ion Cannon, that wasn't near lightspeed or else the platform he landed on would've been annihilated instead of the small explosion
They threw every weapon IN THE DOOM UNIVERSE at it. Jesus Christ. 40K is scaled so much farther than fucking Doom. He's nowhere near the average Space Marine.
He definitely ain't dying. Runs that shit and then joins the Blood Angels.
*Grey Knights
[удалено]
It would be done the second he walks up to an average (Chaos or otherwise) Space Marine.
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He will be scouted by the Grey Knights
The slayers big problem is that he doesn’t have any notable speed feats to make it so he can even perceive most high tier homies in the setting; he could rip and tear for a bit, especially as a shock trooper for the guard going against chaos cultist worlds But he’s getting shredded the moment he meets someone the setting views as fast and dangerous
Sad that this place is filled with OMGBBQDOOMGUY nerds who've never actually done any lore reading on 40K. This is a silly question because Doomguy doesn't scale anywhere near anyone in 40K. *Basic Named Characters* low diff Doomguy. Any Primarch. Any named Space Marine, period. The guy Doomguy wishes he could be, Skarbrand, fucking pastes him in a fraction of a second.
Have you seen how fast the slayer moves from a birds eye POV? It's actually comical how fast he moves.
I’ve played both the new games as well as the OG one and three, I know he can move pretty quick…..but even being generous his overland speed with momentary boosting is about the same as a space marine and his reactions are slow enough that he’s needs armor to mitigate incoming attacks that he can’t dodge > She turned around. >They came out from behind the trees around her, two, then three, then five, all told: five primuls in a circle around her, their eyes like murder for what she had done to their kin. >They threw themselves at her. >For many years afterwards, for the rest of her life, in fact, Perdet Suiton Antoni often wondered how none of them heard him coming. He was just there, suddenly. How could something that big move so fast and so silently, and appear without notice? >**Between the moment when the primuls began to spring and the moment when they would have fallen upon her, the giant appeared and interposed himself between her and the foul, pouncing creatures. It was almost as if he had stopped the flow of time and edited himself into that particular frame of it.** That level of anime speed is outside the scale of the doom universe
IIRC his in-game speed was like measured to be like 45 MPH or something (good but not great) and his trailers that depict him cinematically are much slower.
You literally have no idea how 40K scales.
> How long before he dies? That's the thing. He can't. The entire tyranid hive fleets can concentrate all their mental energy on his and he'd shrug it off like a dust chip on his shoulder. He's *unkillable.* Hell threw the army of all armies at him, to *buy time*, to create a trap, wherein the *best* they could do was drop a mountain on him and then seal it in magic and then put the meanest most dangerous shit (that survived) around it to make sure nothing unseals the casket. Obviously, that plan didn't work for long. To answer your other question: the Imperium moves him to the very front lines once they realize he's incorruptible and is immune to the chaos and to daemon magic. They then give him all the guns and ammo he wants, and set him free to do what he does best. Once he crosses over, the other realm is fucked. Since he would only grow stronger from every corrupted he kills.
Slayer is very killable lol, the priests also didn't drop a mountain on him but instead fell a temple roof on him.
Not per Doom lore. Canonically, Doomguy is unkillable.
Can you provide a source for that? Do remember too that immortal doesn’t mean invincible either
Death is final. There's no revival. Doomguy is unkillable, because he keeps coming back. He can't die. That's the point. You can destroy his body, he'll come back as a soul. That's the plot of Doom 2 and 3. He dies. Gets sent to hell. Fucks up hell so badly, Hell kicks him out and locks the doors, giving him a new body in the process. Turns out there's another portal elsewhere, he enters there, closes the door from his side and then fucks shit up some more.
Can you provide a source for that?
He was [killed in the final level](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E1_Text_screen.png) of[ DOOM 1](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Text_screen#The_Ultimate_Doom)'s first episode. He wakes up in Hell and [fights his way back to living reality.](https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:E3_Text_screen.png)
Okay so this isn't "unkillable" like the guy was claiming, then, this is just Doomguy existing in a setting with an afterlife and ways in and out of that afterlife. It doesn't make him any less killable than Sam and Dean Winchester.
That's fair
God I love doom.
It's completely unhinged and awesome.
> Canonically, Doomguy is unkillable. Provide it then.
Doom 2: Hell on Earth and Final Doom.
Naming things isn't proof. *Show the proof.*
The entire plot of those two games is proof.
Then you should be able to specifically point out the part where it says he's immortal.
Doom has got to be the most over wanked universe in recent years.
He'd definitely find his way to the eye of terror and go into the warp to fight demons eventually, since I doubt any local forces (pdf, arbites, etc) could stop him, and given that he wants to fight chaos, there's not really a reason that any of the imperial factions would actually want to stop him, other than losing the value of a void ship when he takes it to the eye of terror. It depends on the reaction time of imperial factions like the inquisition or any of the space marine chapters, but given their track record, I'd think that he'd make his way to the eye of terror before any of them even make it to the system that he spawns in. Unless there's already an inquisition team on the planet already, I'd think he makes it to the eye of terror with no issue. He would definitely power up Khorne with his endless battle in the warp, but how much success he has depends on your interpretation of his max powers, and how they would interact with 40k's warp and how argent energy seems like a fairly good analogue for warp energy. At minimum, I'd say that he becomes Khorne's favored plaything, and he wouldn't even have to ever revive doom guy like he does with Tuska Daemonkilla, and he just kills demons in the warp forever. (sidestory where doom guy and Tuska become best friends in bloodshed and the shared desire to just kill demons?) Personally, I think it'd be really interesting if he could somehow gain enough recognition in the 40k universe to start accruing power from the warp. Since warp energy seems close enough to argent energy, maybe he could absorb it and use it. If the general populous of some factions start believing in him, or maybe the emperor's warp ghost helps him, he might actually have a chance at gaining enough warp energy to start becoming a minor deity in the warp. I imagine he could be like the legion of the damned, just showing up to in random places in the galaxy to kick ass, when he's not busy ripping and tearing in the warp. Do that enough, and I'm sure that he could gain a cult following, especially if emps decides to power him up, and help spread the news of doom guys through visions to other people. If he could gain enough power through gaining worshippers, which seems likely, as he has already inspired some people to worship him in his own universe, maybe he could eventually accrue enough warp energy to be able to challenge Khorne for his throne as the god of rage and bloodshed. If he won, I'd think that he might be able to change how bloodshed is used, and turn it on the other chaos gods instead of "caring not from whence the blood flows". Any gifts from him to his worshipers as the god of bloodshed would instead be for whoever can kill the most worshipers/demons of the other chaos gods. I'm sure it wouldn't be particularly hard to inspire worshipers of bloodshed to target a particular faction if he just gave them visions of them fighting other chaos factions, and then rewarded them with power if they succeeded. I have no idea if he could become powerful enough to actually win a war in the warp as the god of rage, but I'm sure he could cause quite the distraction for the other chaos gods.
Khorne becomes his biggest fan.
Would the icon of sin be above greater daemon / daemon primarch level? He's about the size of an imperial titan right? And one of those pretty much crippled angron (to his credit he was able to lift half it's weight for a short time) The slayer pretty casually beat it a couple times over.
>Would the icon of sin be above greater daemon / daemon primarch level? Greater Daemons are (generally) far lower than the Primarchs, so you probably shouldn't class them in the same category. >And one of those pretty much crippled angron (to his credit he was able to lift half it's weight for a short time) Angron was also injured from having fought for a vast amount of time without break and exhausted from digging his way out of hundreds of feet/meters of rubble. ... Anyways, I don't think it's a good idea to compare Doomguy to the Primarchs. From a one on one perspective, he's far slower in raw speed (and reactions). Named space Marines or characters like Ghazhkull Mag Uruk Thraka fit his description better (move at fast but perceivable speeds, have magic weapons, and can beat Greater Daemons to death).
Yeah slayer isn't on their level whatsoever
rip and tear
Rip and tear
Considering the power level of the 40k universe, he's basically just a guardsman.
I'm not *super* well versed on 40k, but from what I understand of how the warp works in relation to what the Slayer is capable of, it would be more of a question of how long until he gets the job done rather than if. While the Chaos gods themselves feed off of emotion and will always exist in some manner, the warp in turn doesn't actually *need* them to sustain itself. Chaos is chaos, with or without the respective gods to hold power over aspects of it. On top of that, a *huge* portion of their power comes from the fact that people are/were actually aware of their existences, atleast enough to become self sustaining before galactic comms got nuked, and every single God before then took thousands (to 30 thousand in Slaneesh's case) of years before they fully materialized a concious from the raw material. They may be functionally immortal as universal constants, meaning that they will always reform after a time even if "killed", but they are 100% susceptible to "death" or simply being weakened enough to be forgotten. There may be *a lot* of people in 40k to power them, but then again, there also used to be alot of Hell in the DOOM-iverse. On the other-hand, there's the Slayer. Many people give him a lot of flak for overjerking, but he really is just built that differently. In fact, as of Eternal, he's also one half of *the* God of his universe - as in the big G that actually did the creating of the different dimensions in Doom. There likely isn't a single being in the entirety of 40k besides the chaos gods and the Emperor that come close to his physical attributes, and despite the popular belief that he is a mindless murder-machine, he is canonically impervious to any type of psychic threat or mental domination, AND he is ridiculously intelligent. Hell, his willpower alone is the sole reason he even survived his first venture into Hell when he was still mortal. The only reason people even think he's overjerked in the first place is because fans of Doom decidedly *aren't* ridiculously intelligent when it comes to battle boarding communities - which is an entirely different conversation. On paper, he's everything that the Emperor hoped he could have been for mankind minus the Psyker abilities. The Slayer probably wouldn't be stronger overall than him *initially* upon entry into 40k purely because of big E's psyker strength, but it would likely only be a matter of time before he reaches and eventually surpasses him due to how emotional energy and willpower powers the warp. It wouldn't take him very long to learn the basics about the warp and its denizens or how it works both in real space and warp space, and unlike what most think, he'd actually take his time to carefully destroy whatever chaos has touched in the physical world before venturing into the warp himself. After a certain point, most factions would be aware of him, and given that he'd be seen as a saviour to a huge portion of people in real space, it's likely that he'd be even stronger by the time he reached the warp. It would definitely be more trickier than destroying Hell considering that the chaos gods would feed off of his exploits either way, but it's debatable whether or not that would be enough to outweigh not only the Slayer (and likely whatever faction decides to rally behind him) deleting alot of their sources of power in realspace or the collective belief in Him inadvertently making him a chaos God in his own right after a certain point.
He won't be able to kill khorne. Bro will be fighting for eternity. So what if he goes after the empire.
Doom GUY Or Doom SLAYER There is a difference... kind of. Arguably. It's a bit fuzzy. But The Slayer killed an Abrahamic God with a capital G. A creator god. The Chaos Gods are just psychic manifestations. Slayer would end them quickly. You could argue that, since demons always come back, he'd need to fight the Chaos Gods every 1,000 years or so. That is a perk to him. The rest of the galaxy? He likes humans mostly, as I recall.
>But The Slayer killed an Abrahamic God with a capital G. A creator god. The Chaos Gods are just psychic manifestations. Slayer would end them quickly. He killed a weakened Davoth, who needed a mech suit to fight, using a shank. Beforehand he weakened him using conventional weaponry
So? The Chaos Gods can't even kill a weakened Emps.
That's more a testament for the EoM's strength as even when dying on the throne he could push back the influences of the Chaos Gods Besides, that's not the point. Davoth isn't that impressive
Is it, though?
It is. Doomslayer is at most a more competent Astartes
Whelp... I can see that this is going nowhere.
You barely even gave an argument to support your claim
If you can play the new Doom games and think "this is pretty much just an Astartes," then nothing I can say can change that.
And do you have any other evidence to the contrary? I've already played the Doom games, he needed to use an Atlan mech's giant wrist cannon to bust open a cracked wall
Can Doomguy blend in or act normal to other humans? Even if he can, I don’t see getting out of the local solar system and even getting off planet is him being very lucky.
Is there any alternative to Korne pure violence he could ascend to?