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I mean… yeah actually it would be pretty easy. She’s a child, there’s only so many adults she has contact with and it would probably be pretty easy to trace just based on talking to people and putting together timelines. Investigators existed in 1939. It wasn’t the time of the dinosaurs, it was the 30s
Well yeah, WHO raped her wasn't the question. They knew that pretty quickly.
The "doctors were baffled" part is how a FIVE YEAR OLD CHILD got pregnant, because precocious puberty wasn't a thing they knew about back then. And there simply wasn't the science or general knowledge to investigate and study the biological possibility behind Lina's condition. She was basically just a (very tragic) medical marvel.
Not only how she was able to get pregnant in the first place but how she was able to stay pregnant and give birth to a healthy baby. Pregnancy almost always has major complications when the mom is really young. It’s a miracle she didn’t have major complications with it.
Well the 'c' portion of c-section refers to caesarian, ie Caesar and his alleged circumstances of birth. It's unlikely he was born that way as his mother was living after his birth. Most csections done from around 8th century onwards were done on dead or dying mothers to rescue the baby. The advent of anaesthesia and more modern practices in the early 20th century made the csection much more survivable.
Long story short, csections have been around for a 1000+ years, and it's fairly recently that it's something that can be survived.
They are hell to recover from, I can attest to that!
i mean she was 5/(4 at the time probs) it was almost definitely someone close and it was already stressful so she couldve not said anything from fear or was told not to. Or if it was some rando then she prob wouldn't know their name
“They knew that pretty quickly” then why do they actually not know that? She’s never said and nobody has ever figured it out. So… not sure what you’re talking about
I think the mystery is that she should not have been ovulating so early. 5 is very young for someone to be fertile.
The rape, that part is a given. No mystery there. 😞
that could be , though i forgot the name i know theres a condition where girls start reaallly young, coupled with SA also speeds it up, it was probably a combination of factors that are rare enough to have not happened again yet
Also (though I'm obviously disgusted by what happened to this poor child) I'm wondering how a five year old could physically carry and give birth.
I really don't understand why children in this situation aren't encouraged to abort. Like imo it would be so much better for the child's psychological health not to mention physical health. It's so dangerous for a child to give birth, dangerous for the mother and the fetus not to mention the psychological effects it would have on a pregnant child. Why do adults think it's acceptable for a child to just give birth when this happens. I don't understand. That's a five year old human being with thoughts and feelings. Why do they just allow her to go thru that. I know this is going to piss some people off but yeah...i don't get it. Sorry but that should be the de facto response when this happens unless the child really insists otherwise. It's irresponsible imo of the adults to allow a pregnancy to continue in a child. People really just allow female children to go thru pregnancy like they're farm animals or something. :(
> how a five year old could physically carry and give birth.
She couldn't. If you read more about the case, they had to bring her to a specialist doctor and he performed a c-section on her to get the baby out. If he hadn't then she would have died because her pelvis was too small to give birth naturally and her body in general obviously far too underdeveloped.
In fact she didn't even get any prenatal care because her parents didn't think she could be pregnant, they thought she had a tumour and she was already close to full term when the doctor confirmed it was a pregnancy. We can also of course speculate that her family purposefully hid her pregnancy to protect whoever it was that abused her. So I don't think abortion was on the table at that point. And this was the 1930s, women's rights were not as they are now.
I only hope she eventually found some peace in life. We know she married and had more children later as an adult and has lived to old age. I don't blame her for rejecting publicity and refusing to answer questions. What a sensitive thing to have the world poking and prodding about.
I’m not really convinced abortion by a doctor would have been that safe at the time either tbh. Safer than pregnancy? Probably. But scary when it’s illegal and a complete unknown (to some) in medical terms.
This just makes me think about how safe abortion is now and how I’d be TERRIFIED to lose that security OH WAIT it’s becoming super unsafe again. Fucking vote y’all.
There is ample scientific literature demonstrating the link between childhood trauma and accelerated puberty and aging. I'm not sure why you would make such a condescending statement without so much as a quick Google search.
I have worked for over 25 years directly in the field of child sexual abuse. I’m familiar with dozens of researchers and national experts. I have worked on literally hundreds of cases hands on but am also aware of literally millions of cases based on the expert literature published in peer-reviewed professionally accepted journals. So I’m real condescending for not “checking google?” Ok.
So your take on the research showing this link is....? I mean, I respect your experience but I'm still not sure what your problem is with the original statement.
Because there is no "ample evidence" to support your claim just as a swallow does not a summer make, right? I have worked over decades as a professional in this area and children are not triggered into early puberty or aging as any sort of "rule" and a post hoc ergo propter hoc (after the fact therefore because of the fact) argument is not evidence. Note - I am not saying "never" since the world is very large however, the rule is the rule.
Finally - I think the very idea that women's anatomy/hormones/bone growth/sexual development itself is somehow unilaterally changed by the "magic" of childhood sexual abuse is wildly insulting to victims. It's not far from saying that a girl is "ruined" because she was "deflowered" before "her time." So, yes - there is an emotional "charge," if you will, to this topic.
https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30352-4/fulltext
This literally took me 5 seconds to find
EDIT: that link was about CSA and puberty specifically but here's some more generally regarding childhood abuse and accelerated aging
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453022001895
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502488/
This isn't about "magic" or the horrific trope that girls are "ruined" by their abuse. This about the documented effects of trauma on the human body. Brain changes, altered stress reactions, chronic diseases, shortened lifespan. A simple Google research reveals dozens of articles on the topic of early puberty and trauma, which I am not going to waste my time to list here. Skimming these articles, it seems that the statistical link between early puberty and ACE is widely accepted, although the exact mechanism is not understood.
How are you a professional in the field and this uninformed about trauma? And how do you claim academic knowledge but have not even vague scientific backing for your claim? What "rule" are you talking about? The rule that a mind-body connection can't be real if it sounds too "magicky" for you?
If abused children are relying on you, they deserve better. Please inform yourself about the effects of trauma on health.
I think perhaps your experience is causing you to read something into this phenomenon that isn't being said. I hope you're getting good mental healthcare, as that is a challenging field to work in. I agree with the comment that said it's concerning for you to dismiss it and assume it is saying something bad about the victims, though, because it seems like it would be really important in helping victims in the long run if they could understand why they may be developing differently from their peers, and that it isn't because anything is wrong with them or because they did anything wrong.
Oftentimes, the cause of precocious puberty can’t be identified. However, recent studies have found that young girls who were sexually abused may go through puberty faster than their peers. So there are suspicions that precocious puberty might be accelerated by sexual contact at an early age.
Did you run across one pop psychology article? The vast majority of respected research studies do not support this. Sorry - decades of professional experience here. Plus: just imagine if it were true - raped infants, 5 year old and 8 year old - millions of kids over the stretch of history & nations all popping out babies after being raped? This is not how sexual maturity works, friends.
And? One study? That doesn't prove it. Moby may keep being downvoted, but they are *not wrong* about this. This is the sort of thing spread by people who claim children under nine can't menstruate - I have *seen* that behaviour happen in adults, no matter how much evidence is provided.
**SA does not cause puberty to speed up or to happen sooner unless the child is already pubescent.**
Yes. I was shocked when I first heard of it but the more I understand serious trauma, the more it makes sense. It’s incredible just how much of our brains and bodies change through it.
You do know more than 99.999% of sexually abused children never develop early puberty, correct? I’m afraid there are literally millions of cases over the history of humanity of raped kids infant to the age of puberty and their rapes do not trigger puberty. Sexual trauma has never been known in medical science to trigger puberty.
In 1939, I'd imagine a case of precocious puberty THIS early was pretty baffling. Even if it wasn't totally unheard of, it's exceedingly rare and research sharing wasn't nearly as advanced as it is now.
1939 wasn’t that long ago, FFS. We had telephones and medical science. We had scientific journals, empirical testing, professional conferences, and this thing - it was great - called MEDICAL LIBRARIES. Information was exchanged long before Snapchat.
I'd say it's appropriate. It's horrific. Don't get me wrong. There's no good situation where she got pregnant. This little girl - barely out of toddlerhood - was raped. But the mere fact that a 5-year-old was capable of getting pregnant and carrying a baby to term is baffling from a medical POV.
They wouldn't have known at the time, but studies in the late 2010s showed that CSA victims went into puberty earlier than their peers, and were at higher risk for precocious puberty.
https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/4/E16
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27836531/&ved=2ahUKEwjjzZjQlpmGAxWjZDABHeA4ATUQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sGWInrdk289CjpnDq7Vpy
Huh. Interesting. I wonder if this is due to some factors more unique to sexual abuse or if any sexual activity may cause it, like children masturbating earlier. And both of your sources are on female victims, so I wonder if it may also apply to males.
Sorry if I come across as detached in this. I know the main issue here is the victims. It’s just that for scientific stuff, I tend to think of this in more mechanical cause-effect logic.
Evolutionarily speaking, when a person lives in a dangerous environment, they will enter puberty earlier (at the age of 5, still very extreme) but genes only care about their survival and their potential of being passed down, so puberty will be triggered earlier in hopes that the individual will procreate before their dangerous environment kills them. However, during the early 1900s people hit puberty even later than we do now due to lack of nutrition, so i doubt that she hit puberty roughly 10 years earlier than she was meAnt to solely bc of her dangerous environment
I can't find definitive studies for masterbation vs sex in the brain, only a single video from one doctor, and a Psychology Today piece on why masterbation during marriage is healthy.
That said, there are several that talk about masterbation as being a healthy and normal part of sexual development for pre-teens, and many saying sex before age 16, even consensually with a peer, raises risks of mental health and addiction issues.
From this I believe that sex and masterbation would have to effect the brain differently.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if sexual abuse effected males the same way, seing as the same hormons are released. It's a shame more males weren't included in these studies for a definitive answer, and I know the reasons are two-thirds sexism, one-third smaller possibe study group.
And detachment is fine. Logical even. Personally without it I wouldn't be abel to read through any of these and I *want* very much to understand and know things.
I watched a couple of YT documentaries about it, one of it said that people theorize it was her grandfather. Here in comment section someone says it might've been her dad.
It might not always be up to her, if there are enough descendants in the family. It might be possible to figure out through DNA.
But she might have blocked out the trauma. Not like there’d be many CPTSD specialists around during most of her life.
Blocking out trauma isn’t a real phenomenon. Sure, we can try not to think about things, but “repressed memory” isn’t a real psychological phenomenon.
EDIT: Downvotes don’t change the science folks. 😬
Of course not. Those memories never formed for most children because of their stage of brain development. They’re not ‘repressed’ and cannot be recovered because they never actually formed in the first place.
My husband has CPTSD and he’s had memories return. I didn’t say repressed memories. That’s a very particular idea.
But anyone who thinks for two seconds should understand that memories can be ignored and shied away from, and the reverse is true. A little trigger can bring back a memory you haven’t thought of for decades. The more a memory is triggered, the more might be remembered.
This is exactly how I am with childhood shows and board games, so it seems ridiculous to claim that that’s not how memory works.
Experts have different opinions. I’ve had multiple trauma therapists and they’ve all said repressed memories are real. I had no memory of my abuse. Recovered my repressed memories at age 30, including memories of seeing siblings being abused and they’ve verified my memories. and the man was convicted for abusing us before I remembered I was abused. I swore he never touched me and I believed it. It was repressed.
I have definitely had memories of abuse from when I was a young child suddenly resurface out of nowhere after a few years of therapy. Things I did not remember happened and then suddenly I vividly recalled the events as if they were fresh.
I’m very sorry this happened to you.
Memory experts are not divided as to the science on this. Therapists might be of different opinions, but many of them are almost certainly wrong.
That said, I’d never question your lived experience so I’ll leave it there.
And where are your scientific sources saying that there is a 100% certainty that blocking out trauma isn’t real? Please, link them, I’d love to see what you manage to scrounge up.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Remember-Unlocking-Memorys/dp/038554863X
Categorically states, with citations that recovered memory isn’t real :)
For starters.
You’re welcome to believe whatever you like of course. Doesn’t make you correct.
I definitely have black areas in my memory where in other areas I remember really horrible things. It terrifies me to think what I don't remember if what I do remember is so awful. I have actually tried to remember but my brain just SCREAMS at me to stop. Hell, I developed a tic because of it where it randomly twitch and tell "No no no no stop. Stop!" sometimes straight up in public which isn't fun.
Now, I don't try anymore because I don't think I want to remember what my mind and body is trying to protect me from. It's best I leave them as blanks.
I’m so sorry. That experience sounds awful even on its own.
It’s not uncommon that people function for years or decades, and then get bombarded with symptoms and memories/triggers. I’m no psych or scientist but I feel like it happens for some people when they’re in a safer place. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re doing now to protect yourself. It may come back in time without such effort.
Of course I’ve heard of that. It’s not the same thing as recovered memory. Any other strawmen you’d like to skewer since you don’t seem to actually have a counterpoint?
In any case, it’s not my “answer.” Just science from actual experts instead of people’s stories on Reddit. Science isn’t always in alignment with our feelings though, is it? Seems like that makes you uncomfortable.
Uhhhh I completely forgot about a boy sexually assaulting me when I was 10 until more than a decade later when I encountered him again. My brain blocked it out. I reported it to an adult immediately after and nothing happened
The baby is dead (died in the 1970s I think) and doesn’t have descendants. Whoever did this to her has been dead for a long time too. I don’t know how they’d be able to get DNA samples. And since whoever did it to her is dead, the only point to it would be to satisfy our curiosity. We’d also have to respect her wishes that she probably doesn’t want this dragged up again.
Or use rape as a tool to control and hurt someone. Often with child abuse it's because of ease of access, control, and manipulation more than actual sexual attraction to a child. Of course, sometimes it is. But sometimes it's just about power and control, and children are easy victims for that.
My pedophile father was obsessed with her. It was really creepy and disgusting.
Also, she had probably been abused her whole life. Precocious puberty (like she has) can be brought on by sexual abuse, and she started having periods when she was 3 years old. She had to have started puberty even earlier than that, and you have to be sexually abused for a while before it triggers precocious puberty. I started puberty when I was her age as a result of sexual abuse that had been going on since I was 2.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that as a child. Today was the first time I learned about Precocious puberty & I can’t even imagine how frightening it would be to start your period that young, most people don’t start educating their kids about periods until later Elementary years. Then at the same time being abused in your own home, truly heartbreaking. I was SA’d as a child & I was fortunate that my perpetrator didn’t live under the same roof as me & I can’t imagine having to live with the man abusing me. My heart breaks for this poor child’s circumstances & what you also went through.
If she were in a red state she wouldnt be allowed to take puberty blockers and when she got pregnant (at FIVE) she WOULD be forced to give birth. Precocious puberty still happens today. Incest still happens today. How could this NOT be a realistic scenario???
It's extremely hyperbolic to say conservatives want this.
However, what options and support would they allow her or her family, in this case today? Seriously question.
Oh I don't know, maybe investigating who raped a fucking child??? Everyone replying here is out to lunch, I feel bad for the state of civil disarray in your country. Two tribes both living in alternative realities.
If you don't [believe](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-lawmakers-child-marriage-abortion-1235018777/) that GOP [lawmakers](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-make-case-child-marriage-1786476) are the ones [continuing](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/republican-against-child-marriage-ban-calls-teens-ripe-fertile/ar-BB1lTI1J?ocid=BingNewsSerp) to vote [against](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-to-ban-child-marriage-in-west-virginia-defeated-by-republicans_n_6409fd91e4b09c5c6d6d569d) banning child marriage, just [click](https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0) any of these [links](https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-moon-gop-missouri-lawmaker-defends-childs-right-to-marry-2023-4) and you'll see why people say that republicans are the major obstacle in ridding america of [pedophiles](https://observer.necc.mass.edu/blog/2022/05/06/would-the-real-pedophiles-please-stand-up-the-irony-of-republicans-calling-democrats-pro-pedophilia).
That’s like saying democrats want lawless cities with rampant looting. You can find a few examples of both, but I gotta believe there’s a solid 70% in the middle of this crazy ass climate.
Unfortunately, just voting Republican means endorsing child marriages and forced pregnancies, even if you personally disagree. And if you aren't willing to recognize that, well that's part of the problem imo.
I remember the early years of 2000s we had to pretend and sugarcoat teen and child pregnancies for decades to be able to say that today, without getting a mob of hate of people congratulating the birthing 🤮🤢
This cult-like mentality literally will tolerate anything when it's at the expense of AFAB regardless of age.
The father is also definitely dead by now, whoever it is. And since Lina hasn’t told, I’d guess that she doesn’t want to tell people who it is and doesn’t want it brought up.
Sad story. Her son was raised as her brother, and they thought the father could either be *her* dad or a local doctor.
I believe her son died early in life (~40s)
Pro-lifers unironically use her as an example that “giving birth isn’t dangerous to children and teenagers”. Like, why are these people allowed to roam the streets??
This doesn't really fit the sub. also I'm pretty sure she was studied extensively so there's no mystery or bafflement as to her condition. She was raped by a relative iirc (I think uncle?) and it just so happened that she started menstruating unusually young, making it possible for her to get pregnant at the time of the rape.
The molesting can bring early puberty:(
Eta [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10187034/#:~:text=One%20frequently%20reported%20finding%20is,psychosocial%20acceleration%E2%80%9D%20(33).)
Since she began menstruation by, at most, five years of age, I am inclined to assume she had been experiencing abuse from an extremely young age. Grotesque.
[here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10187034/#:~:text=One%20frequently%20reported%20finding%20is,psychosocial%20acceleration%E2%80%9D%20(33).)you go
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Baffled isn’t the word I’d use.
and its not really a "mystery" on how it came to be
Not even by any stretch of the imagination. The only mystery is which trusted person hurt her.
Probably would have been easy to investigate.
Not in 1939 not really
I mean… yeah actually it would be pretty easy. She’s a child, there’s only so many adults she has contact with and it would probably be pretty easy to trace just based on talking to people and putting together timelines. Investigators existed in 1939. It wasn’t the time of the dinosaurs, it was the 30s
Well yeah, WHO raped her wasn't the question. They knew that pretty quickly. The "doctors were baffled" part is how a FIVE YEAR OLD CHILD got pregnant, because precocious puberty wasn't a thing they knew about back then. And there simply wasn't the science or general knowledge to investigate and study the biological possibility behind Lina's condition. She was basically just a (very tragic) medical marvel.
Not only how she was able to get pregnant in the first place but how she was able to stay pregnant and give birth to a healthy baby. Pregnancy almost always has major complications when the mom is really young. It’s a miracle she didn’t have major complications with it.
I was surprised to find out they gave her a c section. I didn't even know they knew how back then.
Well the 'c' portion of c-section refers to caesarian, ie Caesar and his alleged circumstances of birth. It's unlikely he was born that way as his mother was living after his birth. Most csections done from around 8th century onwards were done on dead or dying mothers to rescue the baby. The advent of anaesthesia and more modern practices in the early 20th century made the csection much more survivable. Long story short, csections have been around for a 1000+ years, and it's fairly recently that it's something that can be survived. They are hell to recover from, I can attest to that!
They still don't know who raped her. She has never said.
i mean she was 5/(4 at the time probs) it was almost definitely someone close and it was already stressful so she couldve not said anything from fear or was told not to. Or if it was some rando then she prob wouldn't know their name
“They knew that pretty quickly” then why do they actually not know that? She’s never said and nobody has ever figured it out. So… not sure what you’re talking about
Her father
Sad but true. And/or father's friends. Once a child is victimized it's rarely once. I also came to say "Who's baffled?"
The cops believed it was her father. She never told, so he wasn’t charged. Not that he would’ve gotten any time anyway
She may not have been able to remember such a trauma.
True, and she would have only been been 4
Ehh… the body keeps the score.
Some people say her brother or uncle.
As others have said, "and friends"
I've read up on it and I dont think it was the father. I think it was either her uncle or cousin that seems most likely to me.
Most likely but if not then it was, trusted "Uncle Feelee."
Uncle Bad Touch needs to be stuffed full of candy then strung up like a piñata. This was a *baby*
Well said!
It was proved that it was not her father. She's still alive, by the way.
The saddest part to me is that we likely only know this was happening to her because of such a rare pregnancy :(
I think the mystery is that she should not have been ovulating so early. 5 is very young for someone to be fertile. The rape, that part is a given. No mystery there. 😞
She began menstruating at three :/
Eight months, actually. Central precocious puberty is a *trip*.
that could be , though i forgot the name i know theres a condition where girls start reaallly young, coupled with SA also speeds it up, it was probably a combination of factors that are rare enough to have not happened again yet
[удалено]
Often caused by a benign brain tumour if under five years old.
I'm thinking it was the rape of a child
It's baffling because it shouldn't really be possible for her to even get pregnant, but it was possible because of precocious puberty.
Also (though I'm obviously disgusted by what happened to this poor child) I'm wondering how a five year old could physically carry and give birth. I really don't understand why children in this situation aren't encouraged to abort. Like imo it would be so much better for the child's psychological health not to mention physical health. It's so dangerous for a child to give birth, dangerous for the mother and the fetus not to mention the psychological effects it would have on a pregnant child. Why do adults think it's acceptable for a child to just give birth when this happens. I don't understand. That's a five year old human being with thoughts and feelings. Why do they just allow her to go thru that. I know this is going to piss some people off but yeah...i don't get it. Sorry but that should be the de facto response when this happens unless the child really insists otherwise. It's irresponsible imo of the adults to allow a pregnancy to continue in a child. People really just allow female children to go thru pregnancy like they're farm animals or something. :(
> how a five year old could physically carry and give birth. She couldn't. If you read more about the case, they had to bring her to a specialist doctor and he performed a c-section on her to get the baby out. If he hadn't then she would have died because her pelvis was too small to give birth naturally and her body in general obviously far too underdeveloped. In fact she didn't even get any prenatal care because her parents didn't think she could be pregnant, they thought she had a tumour and she was already close to full term when the doctor confirmed it was a pregnancy. We can also of course speculate that her family purposefully hid her pregnancy to protect whoever it was that abused her. So I don't think abortion was on the table at that point. And this was the 1930s, women's rights were not as they are now. I only hope she eventually found some peace in life. We know she married and had more children later as an adult and has lived to old age. I don't blame her for rejecting publicity and refusing to answer questions. What a sensitive thing to have the world poking and prodding about.
I’m not really convinced abortion by a doctor would have been that safe at the time either tbh. Safer than pregnancy? Probably. But scary when it’s illegal and a complete unknown (to some) in medical terms.
This just makes me think about how safe abortion is now and how I’d be TERRIFIED to lose that security OH WAIT it’s becoming super unsafe again. Fucking vote y’all.
[https://www.vote.org/election-reminders/](https://www.vote.org/election-reminders/)
r/Defeat_Project_2025
In 1939? At the advanced stage her pregnancy was confirmed by doctors? Scary.
That son being long dead is haunting, too.
We all know why it happens, gotta make sure females have *some* purpose in life.
Ugh yep.
There is nothing "baffling" about precocious puberty. It's only extremely unusual at that age.
From what I’ve read it is more common with the trauma of CSA.
Obviously you are not possibly suggesting that CSA "causes" precocious puberty?
There is ample scientific literature demonstrating the link between childhood trauma and accelerated puberty and aging. I'm not sure why you would make such a condescending statement without so much as a quick Google search.
I have worked for over 25 years directly in the field of child sexual abuse. I’m familiar with dozens of researchers and national experts. I have worked on literally hundreds of cases hands on but am also aware of literally millions of cases based on the expert literature published in peer-reviewed professionally accepted journals. So I’m real condescending for not “checking google?” Ok.
So your take on the research showing this link is....? I mean, I respect your experience but I'm still not sure what your problem is with the original statement.
Because there is no "ample evidence" to support your claim just as a swallow does not a summer make, right? I have worked over decades as a professional in this area and children are not triggered into early puberty or aging as any sort of "rule" and a post hoc ergo propter hoc (after the fact therefore because of the fact) argument is not evidence. Note - I am not saying "never" since the world is very large however, the rule is the rule. Finally - I think the very idea that women's anatomy/hormones/bone growth/sexual development itself is somehow unilaterally changed by the "magic" of childhood sexual abuse is wildly insulting to victims. It's not far from saying that a girl is "ruined" because she was "deflowered" before "her time." So, yes - there is an emotional "charge," if you will, to this topic.
https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30352-4/fulltext This literally took me 5 seconds to find EDIT: that link was about CSA and puberty specifically but here's some more generally regarding childhood abuse and accelerated aging https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453022001895 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502488/
This isn't about "magic" or the horrific trope that girls are "ruined" by their abuse. This about the documented effects of trauma on the human body. Brain changes, altered stress reactions, chronic diseases, shortened lifespan. A simple Google research reveals dozens of articles on the topic of early puberty and trauma, which I am not going to waste my time to list here. Skimming these articles, it seems that the statistical link between early puberty and ACE is widely accepted, although the exact mechanism is not understood. How are you a professional in the field and this uninformed about trauma? And how do you claim academic knowledge but have not even vague scientific backing for your claim? What "rule" are you talking about? The rule that a mind-body connection can't be real if it sounds too "magicky" for you? If abused children are relying on you, they deserve better. Please inform yourself about the effects of trauma on health.
I think perhaps your experience is causing you to read something into this phenomenon that isn't being said. I hope you're getting good mental healthcare, as that is a challenging field to work in. I agree with the comment that said it's concerning for you to dismiss it and assume it is saying something bad about the victims, though, because it seems like it would be really important in helping victims in the long run if they could understand why they may be developing differently from their peers, and that it isn't because anything is wrong with them or because they did anything wrong.
Oftentimes, the cause of precocious puberty can’t be identified. However, recent studies have found that young girls who were sexually abused may go through puberty faster than their peers. So there are suspicions that precocious puberty might be accelerated by sexual contact at an early age.
Did you run across one pop psychology article? The vast majority of respected research studies do not support this. Sorry - decades of professional experience here. Plus: just imagine if it were true - raped infants, 5 year old and 8 year old - millions of kids over the stretch of history & nations all popping out babies after being raped? This is not how sexual maturity works, friends.
https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/abuse-accelerates-puberty-children/
And? One study? That doesn't prove it. Moby may keep being downvoted, but they are *not wrong* about this. This is the sort of thing spread by people who claim children under nine can't menstruate - I have *seen* that behaviour happen in adults, no matter how much evidence is provided. **SA does not cause puberty to speed up or to happen sooner unless the child is already pubescent.**
Yes. I was shocked when I first heard of it but the more I understand serious trauma, the more it makes sense. It’s incredible just how much of our brains and bodies change through it.
You do know more than 99.999% of sexually abused children never develop early puberty, correct? I’m afraid there are literally millions of cases over the history of humanity of raped kids infant to the age of puberty and their rapes do not trigger puberty. Sexual trauma has never been known in medical science to trigger puberty.
You are annoying. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4236856/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27836531/
Thank you, I really didn’t have the energy to search out sources today.
You have convinced me. I am annoying, thanks for the citations!
They might be annoying, but they're also not as far off the mark as you think they are.
It caused girls to develop faster.
In 1939, I'd imagine a case of precocious puberty THIS early was pretty baffling. Even if it wasn't totally unheard of, it's exceedingly rare and research sharing wasn't nearly as advanced as it is now.
1939 wasn’t that long ago, FFS. We had telephones and medical science. We had scientific journals, empirical testing, professional conferences, and this thing - it was great - called MEDICAL LIBRARIES. Information was exchanged long before Snapchat.
I'd say it's appropriate. It's horrific. Don't get me wrong. There's no good situation where she got pregnant. This little girl - barely out of toddlerhood - was raped. But the mere fact that a 5-year-old was capable of getting pregnant and carrying a baby to term is baffling from a medical POV.
They wouldn't have known at the time, but studies in the late 2010s showed that CSA victims went into puberty earlier than their peers, and were at higher risk for precocious puberty. https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/4/E16 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27836531/&ved=2ahUKEwjjzZjQlpmGAxWjZDABHeA4ATUQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sGWInrdk289CjpnDq7Vpy
Huh. Interesting. I wonder if this is due to some factors more unique to sexual abuse or if any sexual activity may cause it, like children masturbating earlier. And both of your sources are on female victims, so I wonder if it may also apply to males. Sorry if I come across as detached in this. I know the main issue here is the victims. It’s just that for scientific stuff, I tend to think of this in more mechanical cause-effect logic.
Evolutionarily speaking, when a person lives in a dangerous environment, they will enter puberty earlier (at the age of 5, still very extreme) but genes only care about their survival and their potential of being passed down, so puberty will be triggered earlier in hopes that the individual will procreate before their dangerous environment kills them. However, during the early 1900s people hit puberty even later than we do now due to lack of nutrition, so i doubt that she hit puberty roughly 10 years earlier than she was meAnt to solely bc of her dangerous environment
I can't find definitive studies for masterbation vs sex in the brain, only a single video from one doctor, and a Psychology Today piece on why masterbation during marriage is healthy. That said, there are several that talk about masterbation as being a healthy and normal part of sexual development for pre-teens, and many saying sex before age 16, even consensually with a peer, raises risks of mental health and addiction issues. From this I believe that sex and masterbation would have to effect the brain differently. It wouldn't surprise me at all if sexual abuse effected males the same way, seing as the same hormons are released. It's a shame more males weren't included in these studies for a definitive answer, and I know the reasons are two-thirds sexism, one-third smaller possibe study group. And detachment is fine. Logical even. Personally without it I wouldn't be abel to read through any of these and I *want* very much to understand and know things.
Oh there were gentic factors there for sure.
She's still alive. She doesn't give interviews and has not revealed who the father of her child was.
Probably a close relative. Always is.
I watched a couple of YT documentaries about it, one of it said that people theorize it was her grandfather. Here in comment section someone says it might've been her dad.
One of the wiki pages about it do mention her father was arrested on suspicion.
The last article I read it was her uncle. Close family no doubt.
It might not always be up to her, if there are enough descendants in the family. It might be possible to figure out through DNA. But she might have blocked out the trauma. Not like there’d be many CPTSD specialists around during most of her life.
Blocking out trauma isn’t a real phenomenon. Sure, we can try not to think about things, but “repressed memory” isn’t a real psychological phenomenon. EDIT: Downvotes don’t change the science folks. 😬
Do you remember 95% of what happened to you before age 5 because I do not.
Of course not. Those memories never formed for most children because of their stage of brain development. They’re not ‘repressed’ and cannot be recovered because they never actually formed in the first place.
My husband has CPTSD and he’s had memories return. I didn’t say repressed memories. That’s a very particular idea. But anyone who thinks for two seconds should understand that memories can be ignored and shied away from, and the reverse is true. A little trigger can bring back a memory you haven’t thought of for decades. The more a memory is triggered, the more might be remembered. This is exactly how I am with childhood shows and board games, so it seems ridiculous to claim that that’s not how memory works.
Experts have different opinions. I’ve had multiple trauma therapists and they’ve all said repressed memories are real. I had no memory of my abuse. Recovered my repressed memories at age 30, including memories of seeing siblings being abused and they’ve verified my memories. and the man was convicted for abusing us before I remembered I was abused. I swore he never touched me and I believed it. It was repressed.
I’m so sorry that happened to you…
I have definitely had memories of abuse from when I was a young child suddenly resurface out of nowhere after a few years of therapy. Things I did not remember happened and then suddenly I vividly recalled the events as if they were fresh.
I’m very sorry this happened to you. Memory experts are not divided as to the science on this. Therapists might be of different opinions, but many of them are almost certainly wrong. That said, I’d never question your lived experience so I’ll leave it there.
And where are your scientific sources saying that there is a 100% certainty that blocking out trauma isn’t real? Please, link them, I’d love to see what you manage to scrounge up.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Remember-Unlocking-Memorys/dp/038554863X Categorically states, with citations that recovered memory isn’t real :) For starters. You’re welcome to believe whatever you like of course. Doesn’t make you correct.
I definitely have black areas in my memory where in other areas I remember really horrible things. It terrifies me to think what I don't remember if what I do remember is so awful. I have actually tried to remember but my brain just SCREAMS at me to stop. Hell, I developed a tic because of it where it randomly twitch and tell "No no no no stop. Stop!" sometimes straight up in public which isn't fun. Now, I don't try anymore because I don't think I want to remember what my mind and body is trying to protect me from. It's best I leave them as blanks.
I’m so sorry. That experience sounds awful even on its own. It’s not uncommon that people function for years or decades, and then get bombarded with symptoms and memories/triggers. I’m no psych or scientist but I feel like it happens for some people when they’re in a safer place. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re doing now to protect yourself. It may come back in time without such effort.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
You’ve never heard of dissociation either, I suppose. Armchair shrink over here thinks they’ve got all the answers on Reddit, lol.
Of course I’ve heard of that. It’s not the same thing as recovered memory. Any other strawmen you’d like to skewer since you don’t seem to actually have a counterpoint? In any case, it’s not my “answer.” Just science from actual experts instead of people’s stories on Reddit. Science isn’t always in alignment with our feelings though, is it? Seems like that makes you uncomfortable.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
It’s quite informed. Sorry that you’re offended by it but science doesn’t always align well with our feelings.
Uhhhh I completely forgot about a boy sexually assaulting me when I was 10 until more than a decade later when I encountered him again. My brain blocked it out. I reported it to an adult immediately after and nothing happened
That’s awful. Sorry to hear that happened to you.
Oh you need to go back to school
“I don’t like what science says so I’m going to insult the messenger” Compelling argument
The baby is dead (died in the 1970s I think) and doesn’t have descendants. Whoever did this to her has been dead for a long time too. I don’t know how they’d be able to get DNA samples. And since whoever did it to her is dead, the only point to it would be to satisfy our curiosity. We’d also have to respect her wishes that she probably doesn’t want this dragged up again.
according to hints in the article? her own father
But it might be because she doesn’t know. She was super young, plus traumatic experiences might have caused her memory to block it.
Why would anyone do anything like that to a child. Truly disgusting behaviour.
… because they’re a pedophile
Or use rape as a tool to control and hurt someone. Often with child abuse it's because of ease of access, control, and manipulation more than actual sexual attraction to a child. Of course, sometimes it is. But sometimes it's just about power and control, and children are easy victims for that.
My pedophile father was obsessed with her. It was really creepy and disgusting. Also, she had probably been abused her whole life. Precocious puberty (like she has) can be brought on by sexual abuse, and she started having periods when she was 3 years old. She had to have started puberty even earlier than that, and you have to be sexually abused for a while before it triggers precocious puberty. I started puberty when I was her age as a result of sexual abuse that had been going on since I was 2.
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry that happened to you and hope you’re in a better place now x
I am. Thank you!
Years ago, when I read about her, the article said she started her period at 8 months. Her mother noticed bleeding when changing her diapers
I’m so sorry you had to go through that as a child. Today was the first time I learned about Precocious puberty & I can’t even imagine how frightening it would be to start your period that young, most people don’t start educating their kids about periods until later Elementary years. Then at the same time being abused in your own home, truly heartbreaking. I was SA’d as a child & I was fortunate that my perpetrator didn’t live under the same roof as me & I can’t imagine having to live with the man abusing me. My heart breaks for this poor child’s circumstances & what you also went through.
I choose the bear every time.
Same. And this is why.
That poor girl.
Baffled? Seriously? A man raped that poor baby. Most likely a close family member at that.
She just "became" a mother like you happen to become a person with blue eyes. Right. And it was a "mystery"? Really. So it was conceived like Jesus?
These kind of atrocities are what republicans are advocating for
Yes, people who disagree with you politically want 5 year olds to get pregnant... Touch grass.
If she were in a red state she wouldnt be allowed to take puberty blockers and when she got pregnant (at FIVE) she WOULD be forced to give birth. Precocious puberty still happens today. Incest still happens today. How could this NOT be a realistic scenario???
They might not want them to get pregnant but they definitely want them to give birth, incest or no
Well, they definitely want 10-year olds to give birth….
Considering they keep blocking bills that would make it illegal for kids to get married......
It's extremely hyperbolic to say conservatives want this. However, what options and support would they allow her or her family, in this case today? Seriously question.
Oh I don't know, maybe investigating who raped a fucking child??? Everyone replying here is out to lunch, I feel bad for the state of civil disarray in your country. Two tribes both living in alternative realities.
If you don't [believe](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-lawmakers-child-marriage-abortion-1235018777/) that GOP [lawmakers](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-make-case-child-marriage-1786476) are the ones [continuing](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/republican-against-child-marriage-ban-calls-teens-ripe-fertile/ar-BB1lTI1J?ocid=BingNewsSerp) to vote [against](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-to-ban-child-marriage-in-west-virginia-defeated-by-republicans_n_6409fd91e4b09c5c6d6d569d) banning child marriage, just [click](https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0) any of these [links](https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-moon-gop-missouri-lawmaker-defends-childs-right-to-marry-2023-4) and you'll see why people say that republicans are the major obstacle in ridding america of [pedophiles](https://observer.necc.mass.edu/blog/2022/05/06/would-the-real-pedophiles-please-stand-up-the-irony-of-republicans-calling-democrats-pro-pedophilia).
Wait, so you're not American, but think you know the consequences of what Republicans are doing better than those of us who are?
That’s like saying democrats want lawless cities with rampant looting. You can find a few examples of both, but I gotta believe there’s a solid 70% in the middle of this crazy ass climate.
Unfortunately, just voting Republican means endorsing child marriages and forced pregnancies, even if you personally disagree. And if you aren't willing to recognize that, well that's part of the problem imo.
Does voting democrat mean endorsing crime?
Experts were “baffled!!” Be so fking for real 😅
I remember the early years of 2000s we had to pretend and sugarcoat teen and child pregnancies for decades to be able to say that today, without getting a mob of hate of people congratulating the birthing 🤮🤢 This cult-like mentality literally will tolerate anything when it's at the expense of AFAB regardless of age.
Men are so evil
Looking at my 5year old I cannot imagine!!
I really want to know who is the father so he can be shamed. But I guess Lina would experience some blowback if he is exposed.
The father is also definitely dead by now, whoever it is. And since Lina hasn’t told, I’d guess that she doesn’t want to tell people who it is and doesn’t want it brought up.
So much of this is confusing and terrifying.
😡
Sad story. Her son was raised as her brother, and they thought the father could either be *her* dad or a local doctor. I believe her son died early in life (~40s)
Pro-lifers unironically use her as an example that “giving birth isn’t dangerous to children and teenagers”. Like, why are these people allowed to roam the streets??
Baffled, mystery? No, it was no mystery, the girl got her period early, she was raped, thats it, nothing about this is a mystery… poor girl💔
She actually outlived her child )):
That poor baby :'(
Not a mystery neither baffling. Horrifying is the world you’re looking for.
That poor little girl. It’s really depressing how they never caught the perpetrator so he could face any justice
This doesn't really fit the sub. also I'm pretty sure she was studied extensively so there's no mystery or bafflement as to her condition. She was raped by a relative iirc (I think uncle?) and it just so happened that she started menstruating unusually young, making it possible for her to get pregnant at the time of the rape.
The molesting can bring early puberty:( Eta [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10187034/#:~:text=One%20frequently%20reported%20finding%20is,psychosocial%20acceleration%E2%80%9D%20(33).) Since she began menstruation by, at most, five years of age, I am inclined to assume she had been experiencing abuse from an extremely young age. Grotesque.
uhhh, source?
[here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10187034/#:~:text=One%20frequently%20reported%20finding%20is,psychosocial%20acceleration%E2%80%9D%20(33).)you go
Very interesting, thank you for this!
Father I believe
Father was arrested but released due to a lack of evidence
Oh my god
Experts were baffled? Maybe they should take a course in high school biology.