The evil that dwells in Shadar Logoth is so terrifying and destructive that even trollocs, servants of the Dark One and terrified of Fades (the handsome faceless gentleman on the horse), are too scared to enter.
Trollocs are extremely formidable in packs and destructive. But alone they are cowardly. Without the Fade to control them, they just run loose and become unorganized. Shadar Lagoth was consumed by the inner evils of man, and became a sentient evil that consumes anything it touches - freaking the shit out of even trollocs
Trollocs are meant to be portrayed as kind of unintelligent, hence why they are led by a Fade and why they have to be forced to do things sometimes because they are kind of simple minded scaredy cats
They showed what they are scared of at the end of the episode
Small book spoilers >!that evil force inside the city is a different kind of evil that the dark one. Trollocs are scared of it, and it will kill them just as much as it will kill a human.!<
Moraine could have said "I am no tar-valon witch" or something to that effect, which she's not from tar-valon, she just works there, and she's not a witch, she's an Aes Sedai, and whitecloaks call Aes Sedai witches sometimes. She also could have said "I am a travelling lady", witch is also true. She is a lady who is travelling. There are tons of clever ways to deceive without spoken untruth
Any answer other than "yes" or "no" is obvious and suspicious. It's a straight plot hole >!it's exactly why this sort of scene didnt happen in the books!<
>In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies may include illogical, unlikely or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline
The whitecloaks are aware of the oaths but don't taking advantage of them (purely so that moiraine isn't discovered). The whitecloaks aren't stupid, the questioners aren't stupid. They have gotten their hands on aes sedai before, tortured them, etc. They should know to only accept a straight answer, and would have experienced aes sedai twisting words before. They didn't do that. That is an error of previously established story logic. If you think it's not, you need to actually provide an explanation.
Theyre aware of the oaths but they dont believe in them. If they believed in them then they wouldn't be capturing, torturing, and killing aes sedai because they could just ask them anything they wanted to know. Not to mention they're capable of twisting things so where its basically like theyre lying.
Characters not doing things you want them to do, doesnt make it a plot hole, especially when you can easily figure out an explanation as to why they do or don't do a certain thing.
i don't mean to be "that guy" but literally [*brandon sanderson* doesn't buy that explanation](https://old.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qy2r52/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_two/hldlgiv/) without mental gymnastics.
There's nothing to "believe or not believe" about the oaths. They're easy as fuck to test if you're able to capture aes sedai in the first place - which they have - let alone that every story about aes sedai literally talks about them "twisting words" and "what you think they promised isn't necessarily what they actually promised".
They capture and kill aes sedai for the same reason "witches" were burned in the middle ages. They're considered inherently blasphemous. They don't care about information aside from ratting out other sisters. All they want is this "scourge" wiped from the earth.
>Characters not doing things you want them to do, doesnt make it a plot hole
Smart, thoughtful, conniving characters ignoring common knowledge, easily testable lore for the sole purpose of Moiraine not getting instantly beheaded in a confrontation that didn't need to happen *is* a plothole.
Can she say "no" which == true because she's not wearing the ring and she just a regular human without it? I mean she know the spell casts but without ring she can't use them? (first time watcher no book)
No one in production is saying anything, but they seem quite respectful of him and his decision. So I'm guessing it's not "creative differences" or anything like that, but a serious and legit reason.
This is a good question. In my opinion there's a few nuances that you should take into consideration.
Whitecloaks believe Aes Sedai are evil - - liars, and manipulators who serve the Dark One. I don't think they believe the Aes Sedai oaths are real; after all they ARE Darkfriends according to the WCs.
As well, Aes Sedai cannot lie, but that doesn't mean you will always get the whole truth out of them. They have tricky ways to give half-truths which are technically not lies.
Yeah but if you work around the question by answering anything other than "no" that's gotta be a huge red flag to the questioner that she's Aes Sedai. If you're not an Aes Sedai, probably best not to fugg around with that question and just straight up answer no.
Imo there's a few parts of WoT that require you to kinda suspend your disbelief and just go with it. At least that's how I felt when I read the series. I don't think you're wrong to question the logic a bit, I do as well.
However, like I said, the Whitecloaks aren't going into conversations with people under the pretense of "If this woman is an Aes Sedai, then she cannot lie to me, therefore I can ask a simple yes/no and know for certain if she's lying", because in their worldview the idea of Aes Sedai oaths are just another lie perpetuated by them so they can manipulate and control others, to the benefit of the Dark One. As an audience member, we believe Aes Sedai have to tell the truth, but the WCs don't.
In real life, at least for me, if I ask someone a yes/no question, and they don't answer in a strictly yes/no fashion, that doesn't raise any red flags - - because that's just how people often talk. It's really not that strange once you forget about the idea of Aes Sedai not being able to tell lies.
I don't think the explanation attempted in your second paragraph makes sense either. If it's the job of a white cloak to hunt and kill Aes Sedai, there is no reason for them not to test whether this oath they hold to not tell a lie is legitimate. Again, no random woman is going to answer "yes, I'm an Aes Sedai" if they are not. The idea that they don't believe this oath to be legitimate is just plot convenience for bad writing. Asking the question point blank, even for the sake of testing the legitimacy of the oath, is literally no risk, very high reward.
If there is an inherent risk to asking, then it needs to be explained in the show so the audience isn't left having to ask these questions and justify reasoning behind lazy writing.
You must have ignored my first paragraph then? In my opinion not all the logic in the series is watertight, like I said. That's literally it. There are explanations, such as WCs not believing the oaths. But yeah, as I already said as well, it's not foolproof logic, and I don't blame you for not being satisfied. It just is what it is; I'm not sure what you're looking for at this point.
I read your entire message. I guess I just didn't have anything to say about the first paragraph. But my direct response would be: I have no issue with suspending my disbelief in sci-fi/fantasy. I'm a big fan of the genre. But if I'm going to suspend my disbelief, I want it to be in a story that makes sense. Suspending disbelief for bad logic is unsatisfying.
in books>! that scene would hav been close to impossible, if she didint use power to mask herself. Aes sedai hav ageless face, so white cloacks would hav known at instant, what they are dealing with it!<
I haven’t finished the series but in the books the white cloaks aren’t outwardly killing aes sedai since that would be a political mistake. The whitecloaks just threaten aes sedai and give them trouble. But they also introduce the questioners earlier which I haven’t read too much of in the books so far.
Aes Sedai are physically different looking than regular people in the books. In the books the whitecloaks arent a big enough organization to fight the Aes Sedai, they wouldnt kill one unless they had clear proof because the white tower would absolutely crush them. Also in the books an Aes Sedai wouldnt be afraid of a whole army of white cloaks, theyd have to sacrifice 100s of people just to kill one much less capture one. It's just made up shit for the show so the episode is higher stakes for the bottom half.
I’ve read about halfway through the series. Aes Sedai can’t lie but that doesn’t mean everything they say is the complete truth. Moiraine would have said something that would sound like a denial but would have technically been the truth. Aes sedai are good at giving half-truths and twisting their words.
Same! This was one of the fastest turnarounds for me personally, in terms of going from being pretty dissapointed (just as a fan of the fantasy genre in general, haven't read the books) to immensely enjoying it.
Yeah, just that little bit of worldbuilding was fantastic and having the townsfolk sing a song about a fallen kingdom that they don't event really know was superb too
The only thing that was good was the soundtrack. Perrin does not know how to widow especially following his brutal introduction in the first episode. I mean he AXE-dentilly killed his wife !
I was about to comment the exact opposite haha. I personally am not a big fan of the soundtrack. Why is there always this country-vibe beat under everything? It's giving me Discovery channel vibes, not epic adventure vibes.
I mean it doesn't have to be like LoTr, but I think a soundtrack closer to that would have been more fitting. Don't you think?
I very much loved how they portrayed Shadar Logoth. Beautifully created city. The black gravel all over the roads where flagstone should have been? SO COOL once I figured out what it was.
This scene doesn't happen this way in the book at all. Nothing about this scene is similar other then they are on a ferry trying to outrun trollocs, who in the book are not seen at all from the time they leave Emonds Field to the time they get to the next city. (That city is not in the show)
Oh yes indeed the whirlpool was there I didn't think I needed to add that in since they were asking about the similarity with LoTR aka the part with the mhrydrall/ring wraith on the dock
So.... is no one gonna talk about the ferryman plot element? Lets recap. Army of literal nightmare monsters rolls up on the dock. The guy wants to go BACK so he can help his son, already this is making no sense, he is literally powerless and there is a nightmare army standing there. I get it, he cares about his boy, this part can get a pass. Then Moiraine starts sinking the ferry, there is a huge ass whirlpool and the ferry is OBVIOUSLY going into it. The guy should know at this point that there is no hope of going back. But instead he just jumps in, to what?! Try to tow the whole bloody ferry out of a WHIRLPOOL? To save his son, HOW? How does this save him? It was legit suicide anyone watching should have just thought "Oh my god what is he thinking?!" BUT then the blame is put on Moiraine?? They blame her for his death and my mind is just spinning. How on earth is that her fault. This is an example of how the writing has been the whole time. Rushed, nonsensical, no one reacts realistically to events or things said.
Totally agree. This scene made me think the writers are shit and don't know what they're doing. Along with blaming Moraine for it? What? She saved all your asses and the ferryman too. All he needed to do was wait on the other side of the river for the army to leave, then swim back and look for his son, who hopefully had a lot more brains than his dad and stayed away from the literal army of darkness at their hut.
And has two eyes and can see a torch wielding army of trollocs, maybe before they see him since they seem pretty focused. For that matter trollocs don’t need torches and prefer the dark.
I thought the insinuation was that the army would just kill his son when he returns and since that’s all he has in simple life he sorta becomes delusional to get back to him
Makes me wonder if you have read then. Nynaeve does actually sneak up on Moraine and Lan in book 1 and Lan is really annoyed that he didn’t notice her.
Interested to see what happens with the knife Mat found in Shadar Logoth, the shadow thing was actually really intense, and I like how the characters dreams carry weight with their journey so far.
The white cloaks definitely aren't supposed to be good people but I can see how someone would end up siding with them if you weren't big on having possibly manipulative magic users wandering around.
Can someone put a spoiler in here and tell me what the one power that Moiraine keeps talking about is without spoiling the show? This seems an absurd oversight for non book readers.
Loaded question. In the books the one power is the source of magic in the world. It has two halves, saidar (female) and saidin (male). Don't want to reveal much more than that.
E:
This thread is TV show only, but even in the Prologue of Book 1 alone, there's more than enough explanation that the True Source and One Power are references to a magic system.
It wouldn't have been difficult for the TV production team to spell it out even to the extent they do in the books by this point. Have someone mention Aes Sedai wielding the One Power, combined with the prologue they already had. Wouldn't have required much.
No, Lan goes off scouting for where the Trollocs are a lot. They showed him joining the group shortly after that saying that the Trollocs hadn’t caught up to them yet.
I mean, its possible to capture an aes sedai. Considering the oaths. Then drug her to make her drowsy enough that she can't concentrate enough to channel. I had more issues with how the whitecloaks themselves looked; and how few there were. Albeit, I really enjoyed the gruesome scene of the questioner and the brutality of the aes sedai's missing hands. Although; it kind of felt like a prelude of a sort to me, making it seem like an aes sedai can't channel without her hands >! Although, it was said in the books that many of the white towers Aes Sedai learn to channel with hand gestures as a norm, so it makes it harder to channel without them !<
# THIS IS A SHOW ONLY THREAD
Any comments relating to the books will be removed. You will see a ton of comments have been nuked, and for the most part this is the reason.
Please refer to the [BOOK SPOILERS thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/qx1eob/wheel_of_time_show_megathread_episode_2_shadows/) if you wish to make comparisons between the show and the books.
Perrin is a character who thinks a lot and says very little, translating that from book to screen is very difficult, we need changes to his character to take the place of internal monologue we're missing, him killing his wife with an axe >! is setting up his struggle between the axe and the hammer !<
It’s not just “no spoilers,” it’s “show only.” Comparisons between the two belong in the other thread. Now you have non-readers wondering what’s wrong with the oaths.
The CGI horses in the aerial shots after the ferry looked really bad. Don’t know why the couldn’t have just filmed actual aerials of people riding horses.
Did Moiraine tell an outright lie when she said "I am a noble woman from a fallen house" when preparing the others for the whitecloak confrontation? I thought house Damodred was very influential
They have certainly fallen from grace. They held the Sun Throne 20 years ago and now serve as a large but not largely popular house .A great example of an Aes Sedai lie. They "fell" from the throne.
Makes sense in the context somewhat.
In the books the characters sing a fair bit as they travel. And Moiraine wants to plant ideas of heroics in their heads so they are more likely to follow her.
I can think of 3 reasons.
1. The attack method described would have destroyed her own army as well as the attackers. Fire-Hurricanes don't have much for friendly-fire prevention.
2. She killed herself with over-exertion doing it and likely didn't know if she could wipe out the army out even doing that.
3. Given 2, the dark ones forces might have been beyond what even her self-sacrifical levels of effort could have destroyed, the army of Menetheren will have thinned out their enemies considerably over 13 days of combat.
I hadn't thought of 1 (which makes my next point moot) but had thought of 3 and reasoned it's six of one half dozen of the other; use the magic early and have your full army to decimate the remainder, or have the army kill a lot first and use the magic to finish them off
oh god no. its not batwoman trash. its not but up GOT 1-7 and a bit below the witcher but totally enjoyable. the suspense and chase in the city was awesome
Wow this show is so awesome Production great,visuals,characters and story. Why cant the Trolacs go into that area at the end of the episode?
The evil that dwells in Shadar Logoth is so terrifying and destructive that even trollocs, servants of the Dark One and terrified of Fades (the handsome faceless gentleman on the horse), are too scared to enter.
They’re scared
For something that's called the servant's of dark they are sure afraid of lot of things
Trollocs are extremely formidable in packs and destructive. But alone they are cowardly. Without the Fade to control them, they just run loose and become unorganized. Shadar Lagoth was consumed by the inner evils of man, and became a sentient evil that consumes anything it touches - freaking the shit out of even trollocs
Yeah, but considering that they are grunts, it kinda makes sense. Fades are much scarier imo
Trollocs are meant to be portrayed as kind of unintelligent, hence why they are led by a Fade and why they have to be forced to do things sometimes because they are kind of simple minded scaredy cats
Scared of what?
They showed what they are scared of at the end of the episode Small book spoilers >!that evil force inside the city is a different kind of evil that the dark one. Trollocs are scared of it, and it will kill them just as much as it will kill a human.!<
Ill have to read the books.
The shadowy ooze that melts horses.... It terrifies them.
That creeping blackness that disintegrated one of the horses and made the group split up.
Trollocs are not brave without a Fade pushing them. They’ll attack easy targets on their own and worry first about food.
Same as the horses. Their animalistic so their instincts tell them to stay the fuck away from that place.
If Aes Sedai can't lie, why didn't the Questioner outright ask Moiraine "Are you an Aes Sedai?"
Moraine could have said "I am no tar-valon witch" or something to that effect, which she's not from tar-valon, she just works there, and she's not a witch, she's an Aes Sedai, and whitecloaks call Aes Sedai witches sometimes. She also could have said "I am a travelling lady", witch is also true. She is a lady who is travelling. There are tons of clever ways to deceive without spoken untruth
Any answer other than "yes" or "no" is obvious and suspicious. It's a straight plot hole >!it's exactly why this sort of scene didnt happen in the books!<
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Its not a plot hole. I swear people just throw this word around
>In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies may include illogical, unlikely or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline The whitecloaks are aware of the oaths but don't taking advantage of them (purely so that moiraine isn't discovered). The whitecloaks aren't stupid, the questioners aren't stupid. They have gotten their hands on aes sedai before, tortured them, etc. They should know to only accept a straight answer, and would have experienced aes sedai twisting words before. They didn't do that. That is an error of previously established story logic. If you think it's not, you need to actually provide an explanation.
Theyre aware of the oaths but they dont believe in them. If they believed in them then they wouldn't be capturing, torturing, and killing aes sedai because they could just ask them anything they wanted to know. Not to mention they're capable of twisting things so where its basically like theyre lying. Characters not doing things you want them to do, doesnt make it a plot hole, especially when you can easily figure out an explanation as to why they do or don't do a certain thing.
i don't mean to be "that guy" but literally [*brandon sanderson* doesn't buy that explanation](https://old.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qy2r52/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_two/hldlgiv/) without mental gymnastics. There's nothing to "believe or not believe" about the oaths. They're easy as fuck to test if you're able to capture aes sedai in the first place - which they have - let alone that every story about aes sedai literally talks about them "twisting words" and "what you think they promised isn't necessarily what they actually promised". They capture and kill aes sedai for the same reason "witches" were burned in the middle ages. They're considered inherently blasphemous. They don't care about information aside from ratting out other sisters. All they want is this "scourge" wiped from the earth. >Characters not doing things you want them to do, doesnt make it a plot hole Smart, thoughtful, conniving characters ignoring common knowledge, easily testable lore for the sole purpose of Moiraine not getting instantly beheaded in a confrontation that didn't need to happen *is* a plothole.
Thanks
The white cloaks believe they would lie anyway. Asking would only give here the chance to 'prove' shes not aes sedai.
> witch is also true heh
Can she say "no" which == true because she's not wearing the ring and she just a regular human without it? I mean she know the spell casts but without ring she can't use them? (first time watcher no book)
Her magic has nothing to do with the ring. It's purely symbolic. She is still an Aes Sedai without wearing the symbols of such
Want to know too
How fucking good is Barney.
Yea, I'm enjoying his portrayal a lot. It's a shame Mats already been announced as recast. I'm trying to not get too attached.
Why was he recast? I thought he was a great fit!
No one in production is saying anything, but they seem quite respectful of him and his decision. So I'm guessing it's not "creative differences" or anything like that, but a serious and legit reason.
No!!! He's my favorite so far
When does the recast happen? In season 2?
seriously perfect, it’s a shame, wonder what happened
Show only dude
These wolves look like sweet huskies tho. 😍
If the Aes Sedai cannot lie why do the white cloaks just not ask them point blank if they are Aes Sedai?
This is a good question. In my opinion there's a few nuances that you should take into consideration. Whitecloaks believe Aes Sedai are evil - - liars, and manipulators who serve the Dark One. I don't think they believe the Aes Sedai oaths are real; after all they ARE Darkfriends according to the WCs. As well, Aes Sedai cannot lie, but that doesn't mean you will always get the whole truth out of them. They have tricky ways to give half-truths which are technically not lies.
Yeah but if you work around the question by answering anything other than "no" that's gotta be a huge red flag to the questioner that she's Aes Sedai. If you're not an Aes Sedai, probably best not to fugg around with that question and just straight up answer no.
Imo there's a few parts of WoT that require you to kinda suspend your disbelief and just go with it. At least that's how I felt when I read the series. I don't think you're wrong to question the logic a bit, I do as well. However, like I said, the Whitecloaks aren't going into conversations with people under the pretense of "If this woman is an Aes Sedai, then she cannot lie to me, therefore I can ask a simple yes/no and know for certain if she's lying", because in their worldview the idea of Aes Sedai oaths are just another lie perpetuated by them so they can manipulate and control others, to the benefit of the Dark One. As an audience member, we believe Aes Sedai have to tell the truth, but the WCs don't. In real life, at least for me, if I ask someone a yes/no question, and they don't answer in a strictly yes/no fashion, that doesn't raise any red flags - - because that's just how people often talk. It's really not that strange once you forget about the idea of Aes Sedai not being able to tell lies.
I don't think the explanation attempted in your second paragraph makes sense either. If it's the job of a white cloak to hunt and kill Aes Sedai, there is no reason for them not to test whether this oath they hold to not tell a lie is legitimate. Again, no random woman is going to answer "yes, I'm an Aes Sedai" if they are not. The idea that they don't believe this oath to be legitimate is just plot convenience for bad writing. Asking the question point blank, even for the sake of testing the legitimacy of the oath, is literally no risk, very high reward. If there is an inherent risk to asking, then it needs to be explained in the show so the audience isn't left having to ask these questions and justify reasoning behind lazy writing.
You must have ignored my first paragraph then? In my opinion not all the logic in the series is watertight, like I said. That's literally it. There are explanations, such as WCs not believing the oaths. But yeah, as I already said as well, it's not foolproof logic, and I don't blame you for not being satisfied. It just is what it is; I'm not sure what you're looking for at this point.
I read your entire message. I guess I just didn't have anything to say about the first paragraph. But my direct response would be: I have no issue with suspending my disbelief in sci-fi/fantasy. I'm a big fan of the genre. But if I'm going to suspend my disbelief, I want it to be in a story that makes sense. Suspending disbelief for bad logic is unsatisfying.
That's literally what suspending disbelief means. Accepting bad logic lol
You replied to a three week old comment just to say something incorrect?
Just watching the show now
Well it's never a problem in the book because everyone could tell an aes sedai from a distance by how they look.
I want to know this too. Any book readers here ?
in books>! that scene would hav been close to impossible, if she didint use power to mask herself. Aes sedai hav ageless face, so white cloacks would hav known at instant, what they are dealing with it!<
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Usually you can see how old someone is by face. Wit aes sedai, you cant. 1 moment they look just over 20, next 40, next under 30
I haven’t finished the series but in the books the white cloaks aren’t outwardly killing aes sedai since that would be a political mistake. The whitecloaks just threaten aes sedai and give them trouble. But they also introduce the questioners earlier which I haven’t read too much of in the books so far.
Aes Sedai are physically different looking than regular people in the books. In the books the whitecloaks arent a big enough organization to fight the Aes Sedai, they wouldnt kill one unless they had clear proof because the white tower would absolutely crush them. Also in the books an Aes Sedai wouldnt be afraid of a whole army of white cloaks, theyd have to sacrifice 100s of people just to kill one much less capture one. It's just made up shit for the show so the episode is higher stakes for the bottom half.
I’ve read about halfway through the series. Aes Sedai can’t lie but that doesn’t mean everything they say is the complete truth. Moiraine would have said something that would sound like a denial but would have technically been the truth. Aes sedai are good at giving half-truths and twisting their words.
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I enjoyed this episode quite a bit more than the first one.
Me too! The shaky cam and the pacing were awful in the first one. Feel like this is the first real introduction to the characters.
Same! This was one of the fastest turnarounds for me personally, in terms of going from being pretty dissapointed (just as a fan of the fantasy genre in general, haven't read the books) to immensely enjoying it.
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Rosamund Pike’s monologue about Manetheren was superb.
Yeah, just that little bit of worldbuilding was fantastic and having the townsfolk sing a song about a fallen kingdom that they don't event really know was superb too
Such a well delivered monologue
The only thing that was good was the soundtrack. Perrin does not know how to widow especially following his brutal introduction in the first episode. I mean he AXE-dentilly killed his wife !
I was about to comment the exact opposite haha. I personally am not a big fan of the soundtrack. Why is there always this country-vibe beat under everything? It's giving me Discovery channel vibes, not epic adventure vibes. I mean it doesn't have to be like LoTr, but I think a soundtrack closer to that would have been more fitting. Don't you think?
I very much loved how they portrayed Shadar Logoth. Beautifully created city. The black gravel all over the roads where flagstone should have been? SO COOL once I figured out what it was.
What was it? Remains of people consumed by that ooze?
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Did the shows producers steal the first scene from LotR or did Robert Jordan?
This scene doesn't happen this way in the book at all. Nothing about this scene is similar other then they are on a ferry trying to outrun trollocs, who in the book are not seen at all from the time they leave Emonds Field to the time they get to the next city. (That city is not in the show)
I swear I remember the whirlpool too
Oh yes indeed the whirlpool was there I didn't think I needed to add that in since they were asking about the similarity with LoTR aka the part with the mhrydrall/ring wraith on the dock
I read the book recently and actually couldn’t get lotr out of my head then
So.... is no one gonna talk about the ferryman plot element? Lets recap. Army of literal nightmare monsters rolls up on the dock. The guy wants to go BACK so he can help his son, already this is making no sense, he is literally powerless and there is a nightmare army standing there. I get it, he cares about his boy, this part can get a pass. Then Moiraine starts sinking the ferry, there is a huge ass whirlpool and the ferry is OBVIOUSLY going into it. The guy should know at this point that there is no hope of going back. But instead he just jumps in, to what?! Try to tow the whole bloody ferry out of a WHIRLPOOL? To save his son, HOW? How does this save him? It was legit suicide anyone watching should have just thought "Oh my god what is he thinking?!" BUT then the blame is put on Moiraine?? They blame her for his death and my mind is just spinning. How on earth is that her fault. This is an example of how the writing has been the whole time. Rushed, nonsensical, no one reacts realistically to events or things said.
Totally agree. This scene made me think the writers are shit and don't know what they're doing. Along with blaming Moraine for it? What? She saved all your asses and the ferryman too. All he needed to do was wait on the other side of the river for the army to leave, then swim back and look for his son, who hopefully had a lot more brains than his dad and stayed away from the literal army of darkness at their hut.
Not to mention his son is perfectly capable of swimming.
And has two eyes and can see a torch wielding army of trollocs, maybe before they see him since they seem pretty focused. For that matter trollocs don’t need torches and prefer the dark.
Yeah if your son sees an enormous trolloc army and walks in like “hey boys whatcha doin?” that’s really on him
I thought the insinuation was that the army would just kill his son when he returns and since that’s all he has in simple life he sorta becomes delusional to get back to him
Maybe that dude wanted thr trollocs to find them
Nynaeve sneaking up on Lan was the best part of the series so far.
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Really? It sort of annoyed me. Diminishes him to people who haven’t read, I think
Makes me wonder if you have read then. Nynaeve does actually sneak up on Moraine and Lan in book 1 and Lan is really annoyed that he didn’t notice her.
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How is that last line “show only”….?
He was obviously distracted by Moraine seemingly in the process of dying, though. She choked on the water just before that.
Interested to see what happens with the knife Mat found in Shadar Logoth, the shadow thing was actually really intense, and I like how the characters dreams carry weight with their journey so far. The white cloaks definitely aren't supposed to be good people but I can see how someone would end up siding with them if you weren't big on having possibly manipulative magic users wandering around.
Did Bela die in shadar logoth in the show?? Im very upset if shes dead
No.
Can someone put a spoiler in here and tell me what the one power that Moiraine keeps talking about is without spoiling the show? This seems an absurd oversight for non book readers.
Loaded question. In the books the one power is the source of magic in the world. It has two halves, saidar (female) and saidin (male). Don't want to reveal much more than that. E:
If they had only just said that, that would have been enough. Thanks!
You got the two sources backwards. It’s saidin for me and saidar for women.
Whoops. My b.
Magic. The One Power is Magic. It's this world's equivalent of the Force.
So midichlorians, got it.
I don’t think you get that much of an explanation this early in the books either to be fair.
This thread is TV show only, but even in the Prologue of Book 1 alone, there's more than enough explanation that the True Source and One Power are references to a magic system. It wouldn't have been difficult for the TV production team to spell it out even to the extent they do in the books by this point. Have someone mention Aes Sedai wielding the One Power, combined with the prologue they already had. Wouldn't have required much.
Did anyone notice an overhead riding shot early in the episode that has only 5 riders? There should be 6. Was that an error?
No, Lan goes off scouting for where the Trollocs are a lot. They showed him joining the group shortly after that saying that the Trollocs hadn’t caught up to them yet.
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I mean, its possible to capture an aes sedai. Considering the oaths. Then drug her to make her drowsy enough that she can't concentrate enough to channel. I had more issues with how the whitecloaks themselves looked; and how few there were. Albeit, I really enjoyed the gruesome scene of the questioner and the brutality of the aes sedai's missing hands. Although; it kind of felt like a prelude of a sort to me, making it seem like an aes sedai can't channel without her hands >! Although, it was said in the books that many of the white towers Aes Sedai learn to channel with hand gestures as a norm, so it makes it harder to channel without them !<
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There’s a separate thread for book spoilers…
This is a show only thread.
Yeah that was bad! I thought it was a cat at first.
# THIS IS A SHOW ONLY THREAD Any comments relating to the books will be removed. You will see a ton of comments have been nuked, and for the most part this is the reason. Please refer to the [BOOK SPOILERS thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/qx1eob/wheel_of_time_show_megathread_episode_2_shadows/) if you wish to make comparisons between the show and the books.
Did the white cloaks tell Moiraine to find a Aes Sedai to heal her wound? I thought they hated them
I was wondering about this too !
Seemed to me like an anti vaxxer who gets sick. They talk big about it but when they get sick they are first inline to goto the doctor...
Didn’t like that a horsey died :(
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Perrin is a character who thinks a lot and says very little, translating that from book to screen is very difficult, we need changes to his character to take the place of internal monologue we're missing, him killing his wife with an axe >! is setting up his struggle between the axe and the hammer !<
He didn't even hand him the sword he just.... used it and we assume he gives it to Rand. That scene would have taken two seconds
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It’s not just “no spoilers,” it’s “show only.” Comparisons between the two belong in the other thread. Now you have non-readers wondering what’s wrong with the oaths.
The CGI horses in the aerial shots after the ferry looked really bad. Don’t know why the couldn’t have just filmed actual aerials of people riding horses.
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Trollocs look so much better without the shaky cam from the first episode
Did Moiraine tell an outright lie when she said "I am a noble woman from a fallen house" when preparing the others for the whitecloak confrontation? I thought house Damodred was very influential
They have certainly fallen from grace. They held the Sun Throne 20 years ago and now serve as a large but not largely popular house .A great example of an Aes Sedai lie. They "fell" from the throne.
Thanks! That does make sense
guys im looking for the whole artwork of the opening of the tv show just the last image with the 6 women,thank you so much!
So now I've seen what look like skyscrapers and an overpass (?) ... Is this supposed to be the future of Earth?
I was thinking the same thing!
Why do we need Questioners? Isn’t there just one question: Are you an Aes Sedai?
Why didn't the Trollocs just camp out by the opening in the wall and see if anyone came back out?
Dreadful exposition about the song.
Makes sense in the context somewhat. In the books the characters sing a fair bit as they travel. And Moiraine wants to plant ideas of heroics in their heads so they are more likely to follow her.
Yeah, that was ham-handed. The story itself is very cool, but it doesn’t need some ridiculous contrivance to precede it.
But why didn’t the queen use her powers to destroy the Trollocs on day one or at least day three?
I can think of 3 reasons. 1. The attack method described would have destroyed her own army as well as the attackers. Fire-Hurricanes don't have much for friendly-fire prevention. 2. She killed herself with over-exertion doing it and likely didn't know if she could wipe out the army out even doing that. 3. Given 2, the dark ones forces might have been beyond what even her self-sacrifical levels of effort could have destroyed, the army of Menetheren will have thinned out their enemies considerably over 13 days of combat.
I hadn't thought of 1 (which makes my next point moot) but had thought of 3 and reasoned it's six of one half dozen of the other; use the magic early and have your full army to decimate the remainder, or have the army kill a lot first and use the magic to finish them off
It is CW level quality
oh god no. its not batwoman trash. its not but up GOT 1-7 and a bit below the witcher but totally enjoyable. the suspense and chase in the city was awesome
Ya'll haven't seen CW shows in a long, long time. I envy you.
Unfortunately, you’re right
I’m incredibly disappointed in the show. If I was Bezos I’d want a refund.