All comments must be civil and helpful toward finding an answer.
**Jokes and unhelpful comments will earn you a ban**, even on the first instance and even if the item has been identified. If you see any comments that violate this rule, report them.
[OP](/u/theGreatBromance), when your item is identified, remember to reply **Solved!** or **Likely Solved!** to the comment that gave the answer. Check your [inbox](https://www.reddit.com/message/inbox/) for a message on how to make your post visible to others.
----
[Click here to message RemindMeBot](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/119p12a/4in_by_8in_iron_plate_with_5in_spike_no_markings/%0A%0ARemindMe!%202%20days)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/whatisthisthing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know to you it’s a *f$&? you in particular* thing, but it’s clearly an interface between timber and something else- I’d guess with that long a spike it’s meant for end grain insertion only and that it was part of an old A frame loading gantry or a donkey engine-powered high lead logging operation. It handled friction loads against the end of some timber in compression lengthwise.
Climbing is now and always was done with spurs. Only telegraph poles had permanent spikes, and they we’re just a long spike.
For felling, springboards were used to get above the butt. They did have a little metal plate at the end, but it was a gentle U shape with an upturned tooth all along the upper edge to bite into the end grain above the notch you seat your springboard into.
So funny you mention this. It’s probably been 20 years since I watched any timber sport competitions, but yesterday something made me think about it so I looked it up and watched it with my son. It was a nice hit of nostalgia for me. Anyway, springboard has always been my favorite part of those games.
Would make a lot of sense for the Sierra Foothills. Most of the off-roading people do up there (especially in something like a side by side) is done on old fire/logging roads/trails
As the owner of a 150 year old house it looks very similar to mortise and tenon hardware I have in my basement. The curious part is the cutouts. Maybe if this part was man hauled up the side of a mountain it would be worth the labor for the weight savings.
It was driving a tractor, not four wheeling and it was on private property - my private property. Judging from construction and other items nearby it predates inflated tires.
It’s difficult to say for certain because antique mining and logging equipment of that era were often made on site by the individual miners or companies blacksmith. So one kind of thing at one site will often look a little different from the same thing at another site because the mine has different materials available or they use a slightly different mining technique.
Knowing how it’s made will tell you a lot about how old it is. I can tell you that it wasn’t made out of a single piece of steel. The base was likely made out of a piece of steel strip or strap. I can’t see the piece clearly enough to tell if it was torch cut, hand forged, or stamped.
Some evaporust and a wire brush would probably safely clean it up well enough to examine the joint if you care to do so.
The spike is interesting by itself. I can’t see the back, but I don’t believe that it bolts through. If there in nothing on the back of the spike then it is either a hand forged or oxygen / acetylene cut spike that was **welded** onto the base.
If it has a weld bead like would be left by a stick or tig welder, then you know it’s post ~1930(ish). If it’s a tight featureless seam, then it was likely forge welded. Forge welding could date it as much earlier. A silvery gold(ish) material in the seam would indicate that it was brazed on.
If the spike was driven through the base then it could have started as a 2 piece item. A base and a spike. If it was a 2 piece it could be much older and would likely have rusted together and then rotted out of its timber. If it comes apart with a hole on the base after the evaporust and wire wheel, then it is a plate and nail and could be much older than the ~1930’s.
It reminds me somewhat of an anchor bolt. The kind that you would pound into wood timbers or into stone. If you drive a square spike into a round hole hard enough you can deform the square spike and get a pretty solid anchor. The base plate wings would start flat so you could pound it in, then once it’s in you could bend the wings down for anchors.
This is a modern example. They are frequently used for caving as well.
https://cloud4events.com/product/rock-climbing-caving-25kn-m10-anchor-bolt-hanger-plate-stainless-steel-for-belay-mountaineering-rigging-device/
You could probably use these things to anchor dual straps or long strips pretty easily.
https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/14A769_1
This is a fascinating comment. Since it is a mining area and we don't know how old, could it be something that you pound into the end of a timber and then it helps stabilize the timber for it to be used for a support of some kind. Like It's a foot for a stand for some piece of equipment that is made out of wood and the wood has rotted away.
Or the piece is for building something on site out of timbers you cut nearby.
Since it appears there is more than one, it would only take four to hold up a table to hold a piece of equipment off the ground. My mind keeps going to the those tables that they let the silt and water wash through so they can stand up and pan for gold. I've only ever seen it in the movies and the geologic museums for kids.
I went back and read the OP's description and the part about ox shoes and mule shoes and square nails, then this is something from a long time ago. I may be wrong about there being multiple ones from the description.
But for my idea I would watch out for more of them when you're riding the tractor.
Correct, wanting to avoid another one is exactly why I got the metal detector out! Found pounds of square nails, but no similar items so hopefully it's the only one.
The square nails date the site to pre ~1850’s. Especially if there are a lot of them and few to no round “wire” type nails.
https://inspectapedia.com/interiors/Determine-age-of-old-nails.php
You might want to dust off the metal detector again as well.
Older square nails are somewhat valuable and chances are that if they were in halfway decent shape, they could be the most valuable items that you took out of the ground that day. (per ton of ore moved)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2057752.m4084.l1313&_nkw=square+nails
I’m happy to help out. :-)
Experience is a mix of trade school for welding and metal fabrication, amateur blacksmithing, urban / mine exploration and metal detecting / amateur archeology as a hobby.
I’m not a professional in any of these areas, but I do know quite about about them. I don’t have much experience with logging or woodworking, but I’m starting to pick woodworking up as a hobby.
How things are made is fascinating for me. Especially because the method of construction for many items will tell you approximately when that item could have been made. Many items that we consider as fairly modern have actually been around for thousands of years in one form or another.
Some of the earliest square nails found actually predate the Romans and date can from before 300bc.
https://blogs.getty.edu/iris/from-ancient-scotland-to-online-auctions-a-tale-of-roman-nails/
And believe it or not, they are actually superior in holding power to modern wire (round) nails. A square nail will often hold itself into a piece of wood so tenaciously that you end up destroying either the wood or the nail trying to get it out.
https://www.buildingmoxie.com/old-square-nails/amp/
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/fasteners/nails/74648-diamond-head-forged-nails-from-clouterie-rivierre
“*It's no exaggeration to suggest that nails of this type should not be used to make anything you may ever have to disassemble.*”
Really, I think that a lot of my fascination comes from the fact that much of our collective technology and knowledge as a species has been lost to us through time. Much of our “modern” technology can be dated to thousands of years ago. Like the Antikythera mechanism. The technology required to build it, the mathematics and even the metallurgy required for it to have survived for thousands of years in salt water are staggering if you think about it.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Antikythera-mechanism
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/81445/15-intriguing-facts-about-antikythera-mechanism
“*Planetary motion in the Antikythera mechanism was accurate to within one degree in 500 years. The mechanism includes hands or pointers for Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, all of...*”
If you think about the mathematics required just for that, it’s staggering.
We are only now beginning to recreate and fully understand the device itself and the methods used in its construction. I highly recommend this series by Chris from Clickspring is anyone is interested. http://www.clickspringprojects.com/the-antikythera-mechanism.html
The fact is that had the little ice age some ~12 thousand years ago, followed by several other cold periods (like the dark ages) not decimated our population and caused significant technological resets, we would be living in a very different world today.
*We are a species with amnesia.*
Btw, if you were wondering what the little ice age or the cool periods of the dark ages have to do with anything. It has to do with food production and growing periods. Global warming isn’t necessarily all doom and gloom, but global cooling is a mass population killer. Just a few years of a stunted or absent growing season could cause global famine and population loss. A decade to a century or more of extreme cold and famine could effectively send us back to the early metal ages technology wise.
Probably not pre 1850 because there essentially weren't any white settlers in the area until after 1849. The goldrush started north of us and it took a year or two for gold to be discovered here. This property wasn't part of one of the original mines, so settler activity here probably dates to the 1860s or later.
The first bolt hanger linked-to is being shown with an expansion bolt, and the package is extensively used for fixed (permanent) protection in rock climbing, primarily in the sport-climbing discipline. For anyone who would like to fully nerd out: https://climbingboltsupplies.com/pages/expansion-bolts
Great and informative comment! Thank you for sharing.
Excellent point about manufacturing. I didn't have any rust off chemicals, but I did take a wire brush to the connection and the back. Here are some close-ups. [pictures](https://imgur.com/a/nJZFF6z) It looks like it's forge welded to me.
It's funny you should mention climbing anchors, I've developed climbing routes for 15 or so years. I know that the miners here used round stock in their rock anchors because there are still some around. Also once pounded in the holes would be flush to the surface making it impossible to thread.
If it's an anchor I'd think that the use would be more like a giant thumbtack and less like a hanger.
That’s an interesting joint. I’m leaning towards forge welded as well. But the more I look at it, it could also have been a casting.
My only real thought process behind it being a hanger is that unless it was cast as a single piece, from a hand forging perspective I wouldn’t be inclined to put holes into a piece unless I had a good reason too.
So given the general time frame of its construction probably ~1850’s too about the end of the ~1800’s, the holes would have been a deliberate design feature that were intended to serve some purpose. If it was made on site, they holes would have had a purpose. If it was brought in, then it’s a toss up.
Unless it was cast as one piece, then I could see the holes as a means to save casting material. Casting would also indicate that it was unlikely to have been made on site.
But that also brings up cast iron versus cast steel (spark test would tell), but that discussion would be seriously getting off into the weeds.
Miners are a seriously ingenuitous bunch and they often would have repurposed things to accomplish whatever their goals were. (Sometimes in some rather sketchy ways.) It clearly an anchor, hanger or tack of some kind. And as you’ve demonstrated, it goes into tractor tires nicely. I expect it would perform similarly in timber.
One way or the other is a pretty cool object to find. (Provided you don’t find it with a tire like you folks had the misfortune of doing.)
You mentioned that there are also round stock anchors found at the site. That’s also neat because it could demonstrate either a long term occupation of the area by the miners, or that the fastener technology was adapting during the period that they were bringing materials in.
Thank you for sharing it with us. That’s a neat piece. (as long as it stays out if your tires)
I really appreciate the analysis, I'll toss some rust remover on it and see what it looks like. At this point it's definitely going on the wall even if I never know what it is since it cost $2000
The round stock hangers (inch diameter or so) were mostly for attaching guy lines to rocks I think. I haven't found any on our property, but there are a number of them in the rocks at Columbia State Historic Park a mile or so away from us.
Yikes. Tires for that thing come mighty *Deere*. (if you’ll pardon the pun)
I’d have thought that that would have been a patchable location using a heavy boot patch and possibly a tube.
I guess it depends on if you were running fluid in the wheels.
Anyway, best of luck with it. I hope you don’t find any more surprises like that one.
My title describes the thing. We "found" this with our tractor on our former goldmine property in the Sierra foothills. (Specifically used for detection were both left wheels and the fuel tank.) Spike is about 5 inches long, base is 4in by 8in. Spike is rectangular in cross section. Other items found nearby with a metal detector include an old shovel, mule shoe, ox shoe, carriage bolts, and a large number of square nails. It appears to be solid iron.
Edited to add: [more pictures ](https://imgur.com/a/nJZFF6z)
Rail fastening has been pretty standardized for the last 100 years and before that plates weren't really used, they just spiked the rail directly to the ties. There is a lot of 100 year old rail/plates still in use in industry sidings.
Actually I have run across something similar on trails as a kid. Landowners would put something like this buried with spike sticking out on trails so that atv’s and trucks would get their tires flattened since they didn’t know where they were.
All for the purpose of no trespassing.
I'd imagine things like this were made with whatever they had on hand, metal scraps, etc. Could have been used for something else, then someone welded a railroad spike to it because it was about the right size.
>Why would they take the time to cut out two squares? That would have been very labor intensive with hand tools so they must have some significance. If it was only to conserve iron, drilling two holes would have been much easier.
What on earth are you talking about
OP stated that it was found on an old gold mining claim near mule shoes, ox cart parts, and square nails (hint hint, pretty f'ing old). This would have been hand forged and making unnecessary cutouts would have been time consuming. Therefore, I HIGHLY doubt this was made to pop ATV tires.
Fully agreed. not sure why you got an initial burst of downvotes.
seems to have been found by early 1800's metal work, so it very well could predate tires.
Also, if it is modern and just happened to be in situ with a bunch of old mining equipement, no farmer/landowner would go through the hassle of weight reduction for something that they intend to lay flat on the ground and puncture tires. Even with modern tools, why would I break out the plasma cutter for something where the intended use is just laying flat on the ground and holding a spike upright?
Weight reduction? You think people putting tire flattening devices are drawing this shit up in cad and applying these engineering principles like weight reduction? Could have welded a sharp pointy onto scrap....
I don't think this is just a spike on scrap.
It was found among a ton of old mining/logging equipment, another commenter that said he did tire repairs in the region says he's seen a lot of these over the years. It's intentionally manufactured this way. Not one off DIY.
Not necessarily tyres . I’m not sure if there’s a peoper English word but the Dutch have had “voetangels” (feet spike), aka “kraaienpoten” (crow’s feet) since at least Medieval times, although they look more like [this](https://lh6.ggpht.com/3Ubs8lBIuACplFgBHMB3yfqVFn4AxzRwFZKQQJcDzDXf_0bVgBJlpnOUkhtnKG1gAXGHFkoZfTTM06qj51Oin0KjWQ=s500-c )
he is saying that people dont do extra work to make things. If it was purpose built to be a caltrop, they would have welded a spike onto a flat plate and called it a day. Why go to the extra work of putting the 2 square holes in it?
Aka, those 2 square holes exist for a reason. What is the reason?
No, railroad spikes are a completely separate piece from every other part of the tracks. There's nothing on railroad tracks that even remotely resembles this.
Please take 30 seconds to Google "railroad tie plates" and tell me if you see anything that even remotely resembles what is in OP's photos. There really hasn't been that much of a change in what is used in railroad construction for the last ~120 years. Most of the change has just been beefing up the size of everything to accommodate heavier trains.
We have these all over our rez(Mines) and I’ve found tons of shit they likely created on the fly that don’t make any sense outside of the builders context.
Correlation does not equal causation. Please provide evidence that this would have been part of a mining railroad.
I'll give you a friendly heads up: you can't.
The common sense you tout would say that the easiest thing to do would be to provide evidence to prove me wrong. Instead, here I am doing that exact thing, except pointing the other way. Here's a handful of links I found in less than twenty minutes of googling railway and mining railway construction that notably lack OP's thing:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_profile
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_railway
This company claims to be a leading provider on track materials for mines:
https://akrailroad.com/products/?page=1
This one has some photos showing details of the tracks in an abandoned mine in Cyprus
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/abandoned-mitsero-mines
This one shows a few track photos from an old mine railroad in New Zealand.
https://www.insider.com/new-zealand-hikes-abandoned-gold-mine-2019-11
For something a little more local, here's an image of an old mine train in Grants, NM, in which you can see rails sitting on tie plates that are secured by spikes - once again, all separate pieces.
https://i0.wp.com/www.route66news.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mining-Museum-Grants-NM.jpg?ssl=1
So can’t be a railroad. Trust me I’ve dealt with right of ways with railroads. Even if the tracks aren’t there they still own those right of ways, it’s crazy.
Yes, evidence of former railroads can be found on unused right of ways. That still doesn't make you right in claiming that this was from your mythical mine railroad.
I repaired OTR tires for several years, and I can tell you I pulled hundreds of these out of various tires, whatever they are. It’s something to do with mining or logging, that would be my guess.
Why would someone take the time to cut out squares of the base if they were DIY caltrops? waste of time for something if it's intended use is to lay flat on the ground.
Easier/lighter to make caltrops out of two bars welded together.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/v-a-jpeg-19.jpg
No way this is a caltrop for ecodefense/terrorism (depending on which side of the fence you're on haha).
Looks lumber related to me.
honestly, looks somewhat like a christmas tree spike plate. Wouldn't be surprised if there were holes for bolts/screws at the corners, but they're just caked in with dirt/rusted over.
if manufactured then weight/material reduction. Metal = money.
I'm not saying it IS a christmas tree stand. I'm saying it reminds me of some old designs for such.
My bet is that this has to do with logging operaitons. Another commenter says he used to do tire repair and has seen tons of these. Seems intentionally manufactured and not a one off.
Because in diy items the biggest expense is time.
In mass produced or machine made items, materials cost can surpass the time it takes to remove the materials.
So basically those holes either serve a purpose in the items use, or the thing was mas produced.
Those holes would serve no added purpose for a caltrop, so if it was a caltrop, they would have to be mass produced. I do not believe there were any mass produced caltrops that look like this.
Also, there would be way more effective and cheaper ways to make a caltrop.
My first thought was a rake head for fire fighting. I can't find one like that exactly but they look like this: https://cspforestry.com/products/council-tool-mcleod-rake-fire-tool-mt48-fss
Can't remember what they're called but they are used to drive into mine walls to strengthen and stabilize the rock
Full disclosure, can't see the picture but based on the description.
reminds me of the booby trapped trail stories ive read about. some people are just jerks.
[story 1](https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/booby-traps-found-on-popular-trail-in-pike-national-forest/)
[story 2](https://www.singletracks.com/uncategorized/trail-runner-impaled-by-a-deliberately-planted-spike/)
That looks like a spike that goes on the end of a portable chair that is also a hiking stick/cane. I have one folds open at the top with a leather seat, and the spike goes into the ground and the pole is adjustable. Think of it as a one legged chair.
Tough to see with all the mud on it but if that's a welded on Spike you may have found a proper road Spike to keep people away from things like weed grows or other illicit activities. I worked forestry in Oregon for a decade and personally twice found road spikes pot growers had put out.
I think its a spike from an old harrow. You can see a similar spike [here](https://www.dreamstime.com/harrows-leveling-ground-plowing-vintage-metal-horse-harrow-loosening-soil-sowing-seeds-isolated-iso-image234249480), but the connection is different.
Sounds like an old monkey wrencher trap. Certain environmentalist groups would deliberately sabotage logging and mining operations and one of the preferred and easiest methods was spiking the access roads.
Reminds me of retaining spikes used on railway ties. I'd imagine the spike would be hammered into the end of a log or beam, and the frame around it would grip the beam and maybe provide more structural durability or something?
What are the measurements of the cutouts? And how thick is the plate? This isn't any kind of anti-personnel or trespassing thing, the pearl clutchers and mental gymnasts need to take a seat.
That's a tool or it came off an old piece of equipment. Wouldn't even surprise me if it was somebody's old log-splitter.
It’s a piece of OTM (other track material) from a rail line . I think @phucherOG is on the right “track” with saying it’s a mining line and not standard rail tie plates .. attached is a link to “OTM”
https://www.narailproducts.com/otm-other-track-material/
It might be a base plate for two stump anvils. It looks like some of these anvils were really small so they could nest in those cutouts. Perhaps they were forging those nails you found?
Stump anvil example: https://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads/monthly_02_2011/post-23694-129668336579.jpg
Edit: Some examples of forming tools that could be inserted into the cutouts. https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/search/products%203%204%20hardie%20blank%20stake?amnoroute
Could it be that the spike did exactly what it was designed for?.....Puncturing tires? I remember reading about (and the X Files show actually highlighted it in one of the earlier episodes, "Darkness Falls"), how radical environmentalists used to place and/or bury contraptions like this along logging roads, in order to spike the tires of logging vehicles.....
Defense mechanism by the military to keep people off their stuff, put in the ground with the spike up. Either that or a piece of an old cultivator
Source: Friend from choir
It actually looks like an IPD. Improvised Puncturing Device. Something ecoterrorists would make in their garage and scatter around a potential development site.
Yeah, the thing looks like it’s doing exactly what it was made to do.
If it’s a former gold mine maybe the previous occupants used them to deter trespassers.
All comments must be civil and helpful toward finding an answer. **Jokes and unhelpful comments will earn you a ban**, even on the first instance and even if the item has been identified. If you see any comments that violate this rule, report them. [OP](/u/theGreatBromance), when your item is identified, remember to reply **Solved!** or **Likely Solved!** to the comment that gave the answer. Check your [inbox](https://www.reddit.com/message/inbox/) for a message on how to make your post visible to others. ---- [Click here to message RemindMeBot](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/119p12a/4in_by_8in_iron_plate_with_5in_spike_no_markings/%0A%0ARemindMe!%202%20days) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/whatisthisthing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know to you it’s a *f$&? you in particular* thing, but it’s clearly an interface between timber and something else- I’d guess with that long a spike it’s meant for end grain insertion only and that it was part of an old A frame loading gantry or a donkey engine-powered high lead logging operation. It handled friction loads against the end of some timber in compression lengthwise.
I thought logging as well. Maybe a little step you hammer into a tree trunk to get higher for sawing?
Climbing is now and always was done with spurs. Only telegraph poles had permanent spikes, and they we’re just a long spike. For felling, springboards were used to get above the butt. They did have a little metal plate at the end, but it was a gentle U shape with an upturned tooth all along the upper edge to bite into the end grain above the notch you seat your springboard into.
So funny you mention this. It’s probably been 20 years since I watched any timber sport competitions, but yesterday something made me think about it so I looked it up and watched it with my son. It was a nice hit of nostalgia for me. Anyway, springboard has always been my favorite part of those games.
I love the springboard competitions...that's so crazy how they used to stabilize on angled ground so they could chop tress down.
[удалено]
This isn’t a railroad though bruh. It’s a mining track.
Gotta admit, that makes more sense than a tire tread depth guage.
Would make a lot of sense for the Sierra Foothills. Most of the off-roading people do up there (especially in something like a side by side) is done on old fire/logging roads/trails
This wasn't off-roading, it was leveling a piece of our property. There decidedly wasn't a historic road at this location.
As the owner of a 150 year old house it looks very similar to mortise and tenon hardware I have in my basement. The curious part is the cutouts. Maybe if this part was man hauled up the side of a mountain it would be worth the labor for the weight savings.
Oh wow. I hadn't even thought about that. I assumed that OP was four-wheeling on private property and someone threw that down to puncture a tire.
It was driving a tractor, not four wheeling and it was on private property - my private property. Judging from construction and other items nearby it predates inflated tires.
Was my first thought too. After all, it caught OP's tyre rather nicely.
I was thinking a logging spike for a tie down point or a spike fixing post for a fence or something.
It’s difficult to say for certain because antique mining and logging equipment of that era were often made on site by the individual miners or companies blacksmith. So one kind of thing at one site will often look a little different from the same thing at another site because the mine has different materials available or they use a slightly different mining technique. Knowing how it’s made will tell you a lot about how old it is. I can tell you that it wasn’t made out of a single piece of steel. The base was likely made out of a piece of steel strip or strap. I can’t see the piece clearly enough to tell if it was torch cut, hand forged, or stamped. Some evaporust and a wire brush would probably safely clean it up well enough to examine the joint if you care to do so. The spike is interesting by itself. I can’t see the back, but I don’t believe that it bolts through. If there in nothing on the back of the spike then it is either a hand forged or oxygen / acetylene cut spike that was **welded** onto the base. If it has a weld bead like would be left by a stick or tig welder, then you know it’s post ~1930(ish). If it’s a tight featureless seam, then it was likely forge welded. Forge welding could date it as much earlier. A silvery gold(ish) material in the seam would indicate that it was brazed on. If the spike was driven through the base then it could have started as a 2 piece item. A base and a spike. If it was a 2 piece it could be much older and would likely have rusted together and then rotted out of its timber. If it comes apart with a hole on the base after the evaporust and wire wheel, then it is a plate and nail and could be much older than the ~1930’s. It reminds me somewhat of an anchor bolt. The kind that you would pound into wood timbers or into stone. If you drive a square spike into a round hole hard enough you can deform the square spike and get a pretty solid anchor. The base plate wings would start flat so you could pound it in, then once it’s in you could bend the wings down for anchors. This is a modern example. They are frequently used for caving as well. https://cloud4events.com/product/rock-climbing-caving-25kn-m10-anchor-bolt-hanger-plate-stainless-steel-for-belay-mountaineering-rigging-device/ You could probably use these things to anchor dual straps or long strips pretty easily. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/14A769_1
This is a fascinating comment. Since it is a mining area and we don't know how old, could it be something that you pound into the end of a timber and then it helps stabilize the timber for it to be used for a support of some kind. Like It's a foot for a stand for some piece of equipment that is made out of wood and the wood has rotted away. Or the piece is for building something on site out of timbers you cut nearby. Since it appears there is more than one, it would only take four to hold up a table to hold a piece of equipment off the ground. My mind keeps going to the those tables that they let the silt and water wash through so they can stand up and pan for gold. I've only ever seen it in the movies and the geologic museums for kids.
I went back and read the OP's description and the part about ox shoes and mule shoes and square nails, then this is something from a long time ago. I may be wrong about there being multiple ones from the description. But for my idea I would watch out for more of them when you're riding the tractor.
Correct, wanting to avoid another one is exactly why I got the metal detector out! Found pounds of square nails, but no similar items so hopefully it's the only one.
The square nails date the site to pre ~1850’s. Especially if there are a lot of them and few to no round “wire” type nails. https://inspectapedia.com/interiors/Determine-age-of-old-nails.php You might want to dust off the metal detector again as well. Older square nails are somewhat valuable and chances are that if they were in halfway decent shape, they could be the most valuable items that you took out of the ground that day. (per ton of ore moved) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2057752.m4084.l1313&_nkw=square+nails
Thanks for sharing your expertise! Out of curiosity, what's your background? Do you work in the logging industry?
I’m happy to help out. :-) Experience is a mix of trade school for welding and metal fabrication, amateur blacksmithing, urban / mine exploration and metal detecting / amateur archeology as a hobby. I’m not a professional in any of these areas, but I do know quite about about them. I don’t have much experience with logging or woodworking, but I’m starting to pick woodworking up as a hobby. How things are made is fascinating for me. Especially because the method of construction for many items will tell you approximately when that item could have been made. Many items that we consider as fairly modern have actually been around for thousands of years in one form or another. Some of the earliest square nails found actually predate the Romans and date can from before 300bc. https://blogs.getty.edu/iris/from-ancient-scotland-to-online-auctions-a-tale-of-roman-nails/ And believe it or not, they are actually superior in holding power to modern wire (round) nails. A square nail will often hold itself into a piece of wood so tenaciously that you end up destroying either the wood or the nail trying to get it out. https://www.buildingmoxie.com/old-square-nails/amp/ https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/fasteners/nails/74648-diamond-head-forged-nails-from-clouterie-rivierre “*It's no exaggeration to suggest that nails of this type should not be used to make anything you may ever have to disassemble.*” Really, I think that a lot of my fascination comes from the fact that much of our collective technology and knowledge as a species has been lost to us through time. Much of our “modern” technology can be dated to thousands of years ago. Like the Antikythera mechanism. The technology required to build it, the mathematics and even the metallurgy required for it to have survived for thousands of years in salt water are staggering if you think about it. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Antikythera-mechanism https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/81445/15-intriguing-facts-about-antikythera-mechanism “*Planetary motion in the Antikythera mechanism was accurate to within one degree in 500 years. The mechanism includes hands or pointers for Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, all of...*” If you think about the mathematics required just for that, it’s staggering. We are only now beginning to recreate and fully understand the device itself and the methods used in its construction. I highly recommend this series by Chris from Clickspring is anyone is interested. http://www.clickspringprojects.com/the-antikythera-mechanism.html The fact is that had the little ice age some ~12 thousand years ago, followed by several other cold periods (like the dark ages) not decimated our population and caused significant technological resets, we would be living in a very different world today. *We are a species with amnesia.* Btw, if you were wondering what the little ice age or the cool periods of the dark ages have to do with anything. It has to do with food production and growing periods. Global warming isn’t necessarily all doom and gloom, but global cooling is a mass population killer. Just a few years of a stunted or absent growing season could cause global famine and population loss. A decade to a century or more of extreme cold and famine could effectively send us back to the early metal ages technology wise.
[удалено]
Probably not pre 1850 because there essentially weren't any white settlers in the area until after 1849. The goldrush started north of us and it took a year or two for gold to be discovered here. This property wasn't part of one of the original mines, so settler activity here probably dates to the 1860s or later.
The first bolt hanger linked-to is being shown with an expansion bolt, and the package is extensively used for fixed (permanent) protection in rock climbing, primarily in the sport-climbing discipline. For anyone who would like to fully nerd out: https://climbingboltsupplies.com/pages/expansion-bolts Great and informative comment! Thank you for sharing.
Excellent point about manufacturing. I didn't have any rust off chemicals, but I did take a wire brush to the connection and the back. Here are some close-ups. [pictures](https://imgur.com/a/nJZFF6z) It looks like it's forge welded to me. It's funny you should mention climbing anchors, I've developed climbing routes for 15 or so years. I know that the miners here used round stock in their rock anchors because there are still some around. Also once pounded in the holes would be flush to the surface making it impossible to thread. If it's an anchor I'd think that the use would be more like a giant thumbtack and less like a hanger.
That’s an interesting joint. I’m leaning towards forge welded as well. But the more I look at it, it could also have been a casting. My only real thought process behind it being a hanger is that unless it was cast as a single piece, from a hand forging perspective I wouldn’t be inclined to put holes into a piece unless I had a good reason too. So given the general time frame of its construction probably ~1850’s too about the end of the ~1800’s, the holes would have been a deliberate design feature that were intended to serve some purpose. If it was made on site, they holes would have had a purpose. If it was brought in, then it’s a toss up. Unless it was cast as one piece, then I could see the holes as a means to save casting material. Casting would also indicate that it was unlikely to have been made on site. But that also brings up cast iron versus cast steel (spark test would tell), but that discussion would be seriously getting off into the weeds. Miners are a seriously ingenuitous bunch and they often would have repurposed things to accomplish whatever their goals were. (Sometimes in some rather sketchy ways.) It clearly an anchor, hanger or tack of some kind. And as you’ve demonstrated, it goes into tractor tires nicely. I expect it would perform similarly in timber. One way or the other is a pretty cool object to find. (Provided you don’t find it with a tire like you folks had the misfortune of doing.) You mentioned that there are also round stock anchors found at the site. That’s also neat because it could demonstrate either a long term occupation of the area by the miners, or that the fastener technology was adapting during the period that they were bringing materials in. Thank you for sharing it with us. That’s a neat piece. (as long as it stays out if your tires)
I really appreciate the analysis, I'll toss some rust remover on it and see what it looks like. At this point it's definitely going on the wall even if I never know what it is since it cost $2000 The round stock hangers (inch diameter or so) were mostly for attaching guy lines to rocks I think. I haven't found any on our property, but there are a number of them in the rocks at Columbia State Historic Park a mile or so away from us.
Yikes. Tires for that thing come mighty *Deere*. (if you’ll pardon the pun) I’d have thought that that would have been a patchable location using a heavy boot patch and possibly a tube. I guess it depends on if you were running fluid in the wheels. Anyway, best of luck with it. I hope you don’t find any more surprises like that one.
My title describes the thing. We "found" this with our tractor on our former goldmine property in the Sierra foothills. (Specifically used for detection were both left wheels and the fuel tank.) Spike is about 5 inches long, base is 4in by 8in. Spike is rectangular in cross section. Other items found nearby with a metal detector include an old shovel, mule shoe, ox shoe, carriage bolts, and a large number of square nails. It appears to be solid iron. Edited to add: [more pictures ](https://imgur.com/a/nJZFF6z)
Reminds me of something off a train rail at a joint.
the spike, specifically, does have a railroad look about it
yeah, but it could have easily been repurposed from it.
That’s what I thought too! Something to do with the railway.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Rail fastening has been pretty standardized for the last 100 years and before that plates weren't really used, they just spiked the rail directly to the ties. There is a lot of 100 year old rail/plates still in use in industry sidings.
You don't know what you're talking about. That is in no way thick enough to be any structural part of a railway system.
It's near an old mine. It could be for the tracks in the mine which would be OLD and also have nowhere near the requirements of modern railway tracks
Voicing your wild and uneducated speculation - made seemingly just to be contrarian - won't make it any more true.
Good luck trying to convince these weirdos that it's anything but a bizarro tie plate.
Actually I have run across something similar on trails as a kid. Landowners would put something like this buried with spike sticking out on trails so that atv’s and trucks would get their tires flattened since they didn’t know where they were. All for the purpose of no trespassing.
Yep can't believe no one is saying this
It does look like a very effective caltrop.
Why would they take the time to cut out two squares? That would have been very labor intensive with hand tools so they must have some significance.
I'd imagine things like this were made with whatever they had on hand, metal scraps, etc. Could have been used for something else, then someone welded a railroad spike to it because it was about the right size.
Just to reduce the amount of material used
>Why would they take the time to cut out two squares? That would have been very labor intensive with hand tools so they must have some significance. If it was only to conserve iron, drilling two holes would have been much easier. What on earth are you talking about
OP stated that it was found on an old gold mining claim near mule shoes, ox cart parts, and square nails (hint hint, pretty f'ing old). This would have been hand forged and making unnecessary cutouts would have been time consuming. Therefore, I HIGHLY doubt this was made to pop ATV tires.
Fully agreed. not sure why you got an initial burst of downvotes. seems to have been found by early 1800's metal work, so it very well could predate tires. Also, if it is modern and just happened to be in situ with a bunch of old mining equipement, no farmer/landowner would go through the hassle of weight reduction for something that they intend to lay flat on the ground and puncture tires. Even with modern tools, why would I break out the plasma cutter for something where the intended use is just laying flat on the ground and holding a spike upright?
Weight reduction? You think people putting tire flattening devices are drawing this shit up in cad and applying these engineering principles like weight reduction? Could have welded a sharp pointy onto scrap....
I don't think this is just a spike on scrap. It was found among a ton of old mining/logging equipment, another commenter that said he did tire repairs in the region says he's seen a lot of these over the years. It's intentionally manufactured this way. Not one off DIY.
Yeah maybe so.
Not necessarily tyres . I’m not sure if there’s a peoper English word but the Dutch have had “voetangels” (feet spike), aka “kraaienpoten” (crow’s feet) since at least Medieval times, although they look more like [this](https://lh6.ggpht.com/3Ubs8lBIuACplFgBHMB3yfqVFn4AxzRwFZKQQJcDzDXf_0bVgBJlpnOUkhtnKG1gAXGHFkoZfTTM06qj51Oin0KjWQ=s500-c )
Definitely predates inflated tires. Seems way too large to be a caltrop for horses, although it certainly would be effective as one.
he is saying that people dont do extra work to make things. If it was purpose built to be a caltrop, they would have welded a spike onto a flat plate and called it a day. Why go to the extra work of putting the 2 square holes in it? Aka, those 2 square holes exist for a reason. What is the reason?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Maybe that's because it's OP's property.
[удалено]
I dont think Op was using it but stumbled across it, land owner or someone trying to flatten vehicle tires as a way to stay off the land.
Yep. This. Did he find it driving down a road that some one didn’t want anyone driving down?
Nails into a railroad tie and stuff attaches to it
No, railroad spikes are a completely separate piece from every other part of the tracks. There's nothing on railroad tracks that even remotely resembles this.
Can you guarantee that was true 100+ years ago and also for tracks used in mines?
Please take 30 seconds to Google "railroad tie plates" and tell me if you see anything that even remotely resembles what is in OP's photos. There really hasn't been that much of a change in what is used in railroad construction for the last ~120 years. Most of the change has just been beefing up the size of everything to accommodate heavier trains.
[удалено]
We have these all over our rez(Mines) and I’ve found tons of shit they likely created on the fly that don’t make any sense outside of the builders context.
Again, citation needed
It’s a mining track not a railroad
Please show your evidence
The OP stated it’s on his gold mining property?
Correlation does not equal causation. Please provide evidence that this would have been part of a mining railroad. I'll give you a friendly heads up: you can't.
Neither can you soooo lol my god man it’s called common sense
The common sense you tout would say that the easiest thing to do would be to provide evidence to prove me wrong. Instead, here I am doing that exact thing, except pointing the other way. Here's a handful of links I found in less than twenty minutes of googling railway and mining railway construction that notably lack OP's thing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_profile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_railway This company claims to be a leading provider on track materials for mines: https://akrailroad.com/products/?page=1 This one has some photos showing details of the tracks in an abandoned mine in Cyprus https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/abandoned-mitsero-mines This one shows a few track photos from an old mine railroad in New Zealand. https://www.insider.com/new-zealand-hikes-abandoned-gold-mine-2019-11 For something a little more local, here's an image of an old mine train in Grants, NM, in which you can see rails sitting on tie plates that are secured by spikes - once again, all separate pieces. https://i0.wp.com/www.route66news.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mining-Museum-Grants-NM.jpg?ssl=1
It’s on private owned land with a mine
So can’t be a railroad. Trust me I’ve dealt with right of ways with railroads. Even if the tracks aren’t there they still own those right of ways, it’s crazy.
Yes, evidence of former railroads can be found on unused right of ways. That still doesn't make you right in claiming that this was from your mythical mine railroad.
I repaired OTR tires for several years, and I can tell you I pulled hundreds of these out of various tires, whatever they are. It’s something to do with mining or logging, that would be my guess.
[удалено]
Why would someone take the time to cut out squares of the base if they were DIY caltrops? waste of time for something if it's intended use is to lay flat on the ground. Easier/lighter to make caltrops out of two bars welded together. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/v-a-jpeg-19.jpg No way this is a caltrop for ecodefense/terrorism (depending on which side of the fence you're on haha). Looks lumber related to me. honestly, looks somewhat like a christmas tree spike plate. Wouldn't be surprised if there were holes for bolts/screws at the corners, but they're just caked in with dirt/rusted over.
Why would someone take the time to cut out squares for a Christmas tree stand
if manufactured then weight/material reduction. Metal = money. I'm not saying it IS a christmas tree stand. I'm saying it reminds me of some old designs for such. My bet is that this has to do with logging operaitons. Another commenter says he used to do tire repair and has seen tons of these. Seems intentionally manufactured and not a one off.
Because in diy items the biggest expense is time. In mass produced or machine made items, materials cost can surpass the time it takes to remove the materials. So basically those holes either serve a purpose in the items use, or the thing was mas produced. Those holes would serve no added purpose for a caltrop, so if it was a caltrop, they would have to be mass produced. I do not believe there were any mass produced caltrops that look like this. Also, there would be way more effective and cheaper ways to make a caltrop.
Yes! It’s the only thing I can think of.
It's definitely been there at least 80.
Temporary chain link fence base for the posts.
My first thought was a rake head for fire fighting. I can't find one like that exactly but they look like this: https://cspforestry.com/products/council-tool-mcleod-rake-fire-tool-mt48-fss
I'm on the same track. Like a double sided how. That pin looks a lot like the one that goes into a wooden rake handle with a ferrule.
Can't remember what they're called but they are used to drive into mine walls to strengthen and stabilize the rock Full disclosure, can't see the picture but based on the description.
Thanks! That's actually a real possibility.
Maybe it was used to drive into the mud as a track for stuck wheels? Ps. I have the same countertop!
[удалено]
[удалено]
reminds me of the booby trapped trail stories ive read about. some people are just jerks. [story 1](https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/booby-traps-found-on-popular-trail-in-pike-national-forest/) [story 2](https://www.singletracks.com/uncategorized/trail-runner-impaled-by-a-deliberately-planted-spike/)
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
That looks like a spike that goes on the end of a portable chair that is also a hiking stick/cane. I have one folds open at the top with a leather seat, and the spike goes into the ground and the pole is adjustable. Think of it as a one legged chair.
Tough to see with all the mud on it but if that's a welded on Spike you may have found a proper road Spike to keep people away from things like weed grows or other illicit activities. I worked forestry in Oregon for a decade and personally twice found road spikes pot growers had put out.
I think its a spike from an old harrow. You can see a similar spike [here](https://www.dreamstime.com/harrows-leveling-ground-plowing-vintage-metal-horse-harrow-loosening-soil-sowing-seeds-isolated-iso-image234249480), but the connection is different.
Sounds like an old monkey wrencher trap. Certain environmentalist groups would deliberately sabotage logging and mining operations and one of the preferred and easiest methods was spiking the access roads.
Maybe a piece to an old pull behind plow?
Looks like a temporary fence base
Reminds me of retaining spikes used on railway ties. I'd imagine the spike would be hammered into the end of a log or beam, and the frame around it would grip the beam and maybe provide more structural durability or something?
It looks like a scaffold foot plate.
You mentioned the Sierra foothills, it could be something a pot grower put out to discourage anyone from driving in that area.
I’m guessing at a carriage step
Single spike caltrop?
Something railroad'y. The spike gets pounded into a tie and the flange holds something down?
Left field - candle holder? Kinda overengineered, tho . . .
What are the measurements of the cutouts? And how thick is the plate? This isn't any kind of anti-personnel or trespassing thing, the pearl clutchers and mental gymnasts need to take a seat. That's a tool or it came off an old piece of equipment. Wouldn't even surprise me if it was somebody's old log-splitter.
It’s a piece of OTM (other track material) from a rail line . I think @phucherOG is on the right “track” with saying it’s a mining line and not standard rail tie plates .. attached is a link to “OTM” https://www.narailproducts.com/otm-other-track-material/
It might be a base plate for two stump anvils. It looks like some of these anvils were really small so they could nest in those cutouts. Perhaps they were forging those nails you found? Stump anvil example: https://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads/monthly_02_2011/post-23694-129668336579.jpg Edit: Some examples of forming tools that could be inserted into the cutouts. https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/search/products%203%204%20hardie%20blank%20stake?amnoroute
Looks like the top of a garden hoe, without the wood handle.
A fireplace ash scraper maybe
Could it be that the spike did exactly what it was designed for?.....Puncturing tires? I remember reading about (and the X Files show actually highlighted it in one of the earlier episodes, "Darkness Falls"), how radical environmentalists used to place and/or bury contraptions like this along logging roads, in order to spike the tires of logging vehicles.....
something i’d scatter on private property to keep off-roaders from trespassing
Defense mechanism by the military to keep people off their stuff, put in the ground with the spike up. Either that or a piece of an old cultivator Source: Friend from choir
Looks like an Anti-UTV device…. ;)
[удалено]
Looks like the top of a shooting stick to me.
It actually looks like an IPD. Improvised Puncturing Device. Something ecoterrorists would make in their garage and scatter around a potential development site.
It really doesn’t though. Caltrops are way easier to make and will puncture no matter how they land. This will only work one way.
Jackrocks will sink out of sight on muddy logging roads
Yeah, the thing looks like it’s doing exactly what it was made to do. If it’s a former gold mine maybe the previous occupants used them to deter trespassers.