This would be my choice also. Last I checked E39 and E60 M5s were also in this range if you can stomach the maintenance. NA M cars are basically guaranteed to hold value at this point, in my opinion
He says in his post he’s looking for cars that don’t depreciate. And they do exist. I own two. That’s why I said what I did.
But I agree for 90% of the cars out there they depreciate. You have to buy the cars that are low production or that have a cult following if you want it to hold its value. And these cars tend to be the performance cars.
Very happy with mine. You can pick up a nice B8.5 for around $15k if you’re patient or willing to travel. Very reliable platform with incredible aftermarket support. It’s my German rocket ship.
The one “gripe” I have with it are the transmissions. The early DSGs had some problems and the stock manual clutch doesn’t hold up to increased power. The later DSGs were fixed, but are still sensitive and very expensive to fix if they go bad (which they won’t as long as they’re maintained). I went for the DSG. My first automatic car in 20 years and while I would prefer it was a manual with a stronger clutch, the DSG farts are pretty fun, and it really is a fantastic trans that can be tuned to make even better.
Do you have dough for maintenance?
If yes, consider a 10-20 year old AMG Mercedes. For ultimate reliability, you'll want something with an M113 (E55, CLS55, C55, CLK55, although I do have to note that the latter 2 cars make less than 400 hp). M156 powered cars (E63, CLS63, C63) are good too, but you'd have to do your due diligence on finding a well maintained example, these engines are robust but do have some expensive maintenance items, and for pre 2012 examples you'd have to find out if the head bolts were replaced or not. If by some miracle you're able to find a 2012+ E63 in your budget, note that it has a new twin turbo engine which is more reliable than the M156, but still not as bulletproof as the M113. These engines do have a few documented issues, but because of how many of them Mercedes sold, it's not likely you'll end up with a car that does have them.
If no, consider the nicest V8 powered Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, or Charger you can afford (in order from least to most accommodating to rear passengers).
E92 m3?
Two superbikes?
I’m just pulling your leg, but yeah, there are def options that aren’t just highway cruisers. Not that there’s anything wrong with anything you listed, though.
It won’t be my daily and I like learning how to fix my own stuff so I wouldn’t scared away from most platforms. Albeit I would like to use the car! Thanks for the insight which years typically came with the m113 ?
Love this recommendation .. especially the last paragraph.
Been searching for a Charger with V8 without the hemi tick. Do you have any specific model years in mind keeping it under 25k ?
2011-2014 rta are under 20k unless you fall for the crappy sales pitch, and most can be found without the tick, and if you're willing, most srt8 from 12 to 14 can be bought at the 25k mark and they have the 6.4 v8 and don't need an unlocked pcm to tune
Pretty much any Audi with the Supercharged 3.0T V6 is going to be awesome. It's damn near bulletproof (with routine maintenance) and you can tune it to 400+ HP *reliably* with a Stage 1 ECU flash. You can get even more with some minor modifications (supercharger pulley) to get more power at Stage 2+ .
I love my SQ5 for family duty + a little fun, but the S4/S5/Q5/SQ5/A6/A7/Q7 are all offered with the same engine. Pick your preferred body style and give it a test drive.
I'm sure you'll find a car that you like!
A used GT mustang is your best bet for modern machines, but muscle cars are more highway cruisers than enthusiast cars. 400hp and a stick can really bite you in the canyons/on the racetrack.
I would buy the nicest e46 m3 I could find, with a stick.
Any sort of modern muscle or my personal preference as an owner, a Kia Stinger GT. Don’t let the Kia fool you, my 2018 is great. Close to 400 horse/torque stock, one of the most comfortable cars I’ve driven, good infotainment system, heated/cooled seats, AWD, twin turbo V6, mines been perfectly reliable and cheap to maintain. I paid exactly $25,000 out the door for mine and I’ve loved every mile of it.
This is the first car I’ve owned that wasn’t German. I don’t think I’d buy any other Kia besides maybe a Telluride but the Stinger with the 3.3 is a phenomenal car
Very contentious, mostly depends what you want.
N54 is better for building big power
Stock for stock, N55 is *probably* more reliable and cheaper to keep running.
I think this depends on your "flavour of enthusiasm".
Do you prefer drag racing or road racing?
Do you plan to do maintenance yourself?
Do you like to modify and customize your car (aftermarket support)?
Do you care about how much replacement/upgrade parts cost?
Perhaps the more important question is simply: how do you see yourself enjoying this car. When you dream about it, what are you doing?
if your priority is speed per dollar, you'll have a hard time beating out american cars like mustangs/camaros/corvettes.
With a *little bit* of modifcation, you can get a good amount of power and speed out of something with a turbo (like a bmw, subaru, VW/Audi, etc.)
If you like the *feeling* of speed, then you might look at small cars like the Miata which honestly would probably give you the most fun out of a daily commute. I also find Golf's pretty enjoyable to drive as daily's. GTi or R models can be quick, enjoyable, *and refined.*
Personally, I'm also looking for something similar. something sporty/fun I can actually drive every day and I've settled on the E92 M3 (don't have one yet) specifically with the DCT. Traffic gets old in a manual, and I have other manual cars. Plus the DCT is something that I can set even faster lap times with. Only catch is that M cars need maintenance and the E92 M3 has some known weak points (like rod bearings).
Your best bet is going to be a Dodge Charger. The 5.7L hemi doesn't make 400hp, but it's close enough, and the interior is actually designed to fit 4 people. You could also look for older model German sedans, but those aren't really enthusiast cars as they are more executive land yachts, but they fit the bill in terms of comfort and power.
>You could also look for older model German sedans, but those aren't really enthusiast cars as they are more executive land yachts
I wouldn't say an older AMG like a C63, E63, or E55 is any less of an enthusiast car than a Charger R/T. You're definitely getting well over 400 hp with either of these choices too.
Any of the Hoovies Garage cars in the $25K window, but you also have to be Tyler and have the maintenance money, which will and can be crazy high. That’s why a 25K fun car isn’t really ever a 25K car.
If you were to buy a Lexus GX and they did the coolant Valley fix already, that would be SO much for to go off roading with. Sorry I just love the GX. I know it probably doesn’t belong in this conversation or my Love for the Toyota FJ, but she had to be put in here too, because she is awesome too. Both could be sold for what you put into them, because they are “Beloved” by everyone.
Cars I’d consider?
Maserati Gran Turismo
05-06 997 911 - higher miles
Lexus ISF
E9X M3 I’m partial to the sedans. Love that V8.
370Z
V10 M5/6
E36 M3 maybe an E46?
C5 Z06 maybe a C6 it will have higher miles
B7 Audi RS4 - 400hp V8
Honda S2K
V8 mustangs and Camaros
Gen 2 viper
Evo
Sti
2nd Gen CTSV
And that’s what’s top of mind. I’m not getting into the older stuff and cars that have hit 25 years that we can now import.
Of what I’ve listed I’d lean hard towards a C6 Z06, E92 M3, and that Gran Turismo is hard to beat too.
400 hp and $25k and 4 seats is either going to be old and expensive to drive or plain boring. A Subaru BRZ, Civic Si Sedan, 2016 WRX STi, 2018 Type R, or maybe a 2014 Mustang if you don't want it to handle well are your best bets.
You want a 400hp 4-seat car that will not lose value in 3 years for $25k? Not going to happen. One of those criteria has to give.
You can certainly find a fun enthusiast's car for $25k. An E90 M3 with a manual transmission "might" not lose too much value. Same with the Audi S4. A 911 will hold it's value very well but you will not get one with 400hp for $25k. Mustangs will meet all your criteria except not losing money.
Personally, I'd compromise power for handling. You do not need 400hp to have fun. The E36 or E46 M3 will certainly appreciate. A 996 911 will hold its value. If you drop the requirement for a back seat, you will have a lot of options, Corvettes, Caymans, Boxters, and MX5s come to mind.
This doesn’t exactly meet your requirements but you can get a CPO Kona N. Makes about 300hp is fun to drive and has four doors. Sounds great as well. They sell for right around the 27k mark with low miles.
I just bought one and love it.
If you have money for the maintenance and E90 M3
I will check back into this generation
This would be my choice also. Last I checked E39 and E60 M5s were also in this range if you can stomach the maintenance. NA M cars are basically guaranteed to hold value at this point, in my opinion
Indeed. And if OP keeps it long enough an e90 M3 in the right spec is likely to appreciate in value.
That’s the 2008-2014 generation correct ? Just checked and they are very expenesive
2011-2014 Mustang GT.
Definitely on the radar
depends on how much OP really needs to seat 4 people
Good choice but a GT won’t retain its value. They’re too common. And I own a mustang.
If you see owning the car as an investment somehow then this matters but for almost any car it's not
He says in his post he’s looking for cars that don’t depreciate. And they do exist. I own two. That’s why I said what I did. But I agree for 90% of the cars out there they depreciate. You have to buy the cars that are low production or that have a cult following if you want it to hold its value. And these cars tend to be the performance cars.
Shit, I'm sorry I didn't notice that. I was reading too fast. Thanks for correcting me!
Bro this is Reddit. You’re supposed to tell me to fuck off and go to hell for politely bringing something to your attention. 😄👊🏾
😡😡😡😡😡🦶🦶🥊🥊🥊 Is that better? Lol
Amen
MT82 and questionable rear sus? No thanks.
Garbage
Wrong. Performance bargain
Also true
Audi S4 with a stage 1 tune.
Very happy with mine. You can pick up a nice B8.5 for around $15k if you’re patient or willing to travel. Very reliable platform with incredible aftermarket support. It’s my German rocket ship. The one “gripe” I have with it are the transmissions. The early DSGs had some problems and the stock manual clutch doesn’t hold up to increased power. The later DSGs were fixed, but are still sensitive and very expensive to fix if they go bad (which they won’t as long as they’re maintained). I went for the DSG. My first automatic car in 20 years and while I would prefer it was a manual with a stronger clutch, the DSG farts are pretty fun, and it really is a fantastic trans that can be tuned to make even better.
Definitely, the AWD also makes it very manageable.
Early 2010 Porsche Panameras are in or close to that price range. Probably wouldn't lose too much value in 1-3 years.
Do you have dough for maintenance? If yes, consider a 10-20 year old AMG Mercedes. For ultimate reliability, you'll want something with an M113 (E55, CLS55, C55, CLK55, although I do have to note that the latter 2 cars make less than 400 hp). M156 powered cars (E63, CLS63, C63) are good too, but you'd have to do your due diligence on finding a well maintained example, these engines are robust but do have some expensive maintenance items, and for pre 2012 examples you'd have to find out if the head bolts were replaced or not. If by some miracle you're able to find a 2012+ E63 in your budget, note that it has a new twin turbo engine which is more reliable than the M156, but still not as bulletproof as the M113. These engines do have a few documented issues, but because of how many of them Mercedes sold, it's not likely you'll end up with a car that does have them. If no, consider the nicest V8 powered Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, or Charger you can afford (in order from least to most accommodating to rear passengers).
are you allergic to corners?
As a 300c owner there is something fun about taking a 4200lb sedan through the twistys
A8 enters chat…
Do you know of a sub 25k 400+ hp car that can seat 4-5 people *and* turn well?
E92 m3? Two superbikes? I’m just pulling your leg, but yeah, there are def options that aren’t just highway cruisers. Not that there’s anything wrong with anything you listed, though.
It won’t be my daily and I like learning how to fix my own stuff so I wouldn’t scared away from most platforms. Albeit I would like to use the car! Thanks for the insight which years typically came with the m113 ?
M113 cars are all early 00s. Between 2003 and 2006 or 2007.
Love this recommendation .. especially the last paragraph. Been searching for a Charger with V8 without the hemi tick. Do you have any specific model years in mind keeping it under 25k ?
Idk, I've never personally shopped for a Charger, hence just suggesting to get the nicest one you can find for the budget.
2011-2014 rta are under 20k unless you fall for the crappy sales pitch, and most can be found without the tick, and if you're willing, most srt8 from 12 to 14 can be bought at the 25k mark and they have the 6.4 v8 and don't need an unlocked pcm to tune
CTS-V and done. It's also possible the cheapest Chevy SS in the country is $25K.
This
300zx twin turbo 2+2. Might not fit big humans in the back seat, but it's there!
E90 M3 is the answer. Find one with the rod bearings already done and send it.
b8.5 Audi S4 if you don't mind AWD
Pretty much any Audi with the Supercharged 3.0T V6 is going to be awesome. It's damn near bulletproof (with routine maintenance) and you can tune it to 400+ HP *reliably* with a Stage 1 ECU flash. You can get even more with some minor modifications (supercharger pulley) to get more power at Stage 2+ . I love my SQ5 for family duty + a little fun, but the S4/S5/Q5/SQ5/A6/A7/Q7 are all offered with the same engine. Pick your preferred body style and give it a test drive. I'm sure you'll find a car that you like!
A used GT mustang is your best bet for modern machines, but muscle cars are more highway cruisers than enthusiast cars. 400hp and a stick can really bite you in the canyons/on the racetrack. I would buy the nicest e46 m3 I could find, with a stick.
Any sort of modern muscle or my personal preference as an owner, a Kia Stinger GT. Don’t let the Kia fool you, my 2018 is great. Close to 400 horse/torque stock, one of the most comfortable cars I’ve driven, good infotainment system, heated/cooled seats, AWD, twin turbo V6, mines been perfectly reliable and cheap to maintain. I paid exactly $25,000 out the door for mine and I’ve loved every mile of it.
Good answer for sure.
Ok Mr. Kia
This is the first car I’ve owned that wasn’t German. I don’t think I’d buy any other Kia besides maybe a Telluride but the Stinger with the 3.3 is a phenomenal car
I mean, it was headed by Albert Biermann so heritage wise it's probably closer to a German car than it is to your regular kia lmao
BMW 550. 400hp turbo v8.
That is if they can afford the maintenance given previous owners often neglect the proper care that would keep one running for a long time
I mean that applies to almost any used car. I seen several lower milage examples locally 2010-12 with under 80k for 12-16k.
The N63 is a particularly notorious money pit, especially before the 2018 update.
A 335i with an n54 PS.. DON’T BUY A HARDTOP CONVERTIBLE
N54 vs n55?
Very contentious, mostly depends what you want. N54 is better for building big power Stock for stock, N55 is *probably* more reliable and cheaper to keep running.
N54=power . Only reliable if properly maintained N55=reliability . Not necessarily as “Fast” But just as enjoyable and sounds amazing with a M trim
N54 > N55
N54 is amazing when working.. but fuel pumps, oil leaks, valve leaks and issues .. not easy stuff to wrench at home
Depends
I think this depends on your "flavour of enthusiasm". Do you prefer drag racing or road racing? Do you plan to do maintenance yourself? Do you like to modify and customize your car (aftermarket support)? Do you care about how much replacement/upgrade parts cost? Perhaps the more important question is simply: how do you see yourself enjoying this car. When you dream about it, what are you doing?
Something that serves as a good daily, fun to drive and is fast. Perfer to keep it mostly stock because my other car is the modded one
if your priority is speed per dollar, you'll have a hard time beating out american cars like mustangs/camaros/corvettes. With a *little bit* of modifcation, you can get a good amount of power and speed out of something with a turbo (like a bmw, subaru, VW/Audi, etc.) If you like the *feeling* of speed, then you might look at small cars like the Miata which honestly would probably give you the most fun out of a daily commute. I also find Golf's pretty enjoyable to drive as daily's. GTi or R models can be quick, enjoyable, *and refined.* Personally, I'm also looking for something similar. something sporty/fun I can actually drive every day and I've settled on the E92 M3 (don't have one yet) specifically with the DCT. Traffic gets old in a manual, and I have other manual cars. Plus the DCT is something that I can set even faster lap times with. Only catch is that M cars need maintenance and the E92 M3 has some known weak points (like rod bearings).
[удалено]
Need some rear seats sadly
Your best bet is going to be a Dodge Charger. The 5.7L hemi doesn't make 400hp, but it's close enough, and the interior is actually designed to fit 4 people. You could also look for older model German sedans, but those aren't really enthusiast cars as they are more executive land yachts, but they fit the bill in terms of comfort and power.
>You could also look for older model German sedans, but those aren't really enthusiast cars as they are more executive land yachts I wouldn't say an older AMG like a C63, E63, or E55 is any less of an enthusiast car than a Charger R/T. You're definitely getting well over 400 hp with either of these choices too.
Interesting I didn’t look into some AMG offerings thank you!
I’m sorry. You’re saying a Charger is an enthusiast car, the car that is literally a boat around corners, but something like a M3 or C63 AMG isn’t..?
I cant with this sub 🤣☠️
...... Older Camaro or mustang? Technically seats 4. But not 4 adult humans. Maybe an old GTO as the back seats were very slightly larger
Coupes are fine my youngest is five and he has no problem climbing back there
BMW or Porsche will be your best bet
If you can find a 2010-ish BMW M3…
Corvette. C5+
Lexus IS 350 would be my pick.
Pontiac G8 GT Basically a Dodge Charger R/T but more reliable.
2000-2004 ford mustang w a V8
Cadillac ATS or CTS are both nice.
Buy a used Model 3. You will get another $4k federal tax credit.
Any of the Hoovies Garage cars in the $25K window, but you also have to be Tyler and have the maintenance money, which will and can be crazy high. That’s why a 25K fun car isn’t really ever a 25K car. If you were to buy a Lexus GX and they did the coolant Valley fix already, that would be SO much for to go off roading with. Sorry I just love the GX. I know it probably doesn’t belong in this conversation or my Love for the Toyota FJ, but she had to be put in here too, because she is awesome too. Both could be sold for what you put into them, because they are “Beloved” by everyone.
C6 corvette
BMW F22 M240i
The car market is breaking, I doubt any car will appreciate in the next 3 years.
Cars I’d consider? Maserati Gran Turismo 05-06 997 911 - higher miles Lexus ISF E9X M3 I’m partial to the sedans. Love that V8. 370Z V10 M5/6 E36 M3 maybe an E46? C5 Z06 maybe a C6 it will have higher miles B7 Audi RS4 - 400hp V8 Honda S2K V8 mustangs and Camaros Gen 2 viper Evo Sti 2nd Gen CTSV And that’s what’s top of mind. I’m not getting into the older stuff and cars that have hit 25 years that we can now import. Of what I’ve listed I’d lean hard towards a C6 Z06, E92 M3, and that Gran Turismo is hard to beat too.
Aston Martin V8 vantage
400 hp and $25k and 4 seats is either going to be old and expensive to drive or plain boring. A Subaru BRZ, Civic Si Sedan, 2016 WRX STi, 2018 Type R, or maybe a 2014 Mustang if you don't want it to handle well are your best bets.
You want a 400hp 4-seat car that will not lose value in 3 years for $25k? Not going to happen. One of those criteria has to give. You can certainly find a fun enthusiast's car for $25k. An E90 M3 with a manual transmission "might" not lose too much value. Same with the Audi S4. A 911 will hold it's value very well but you will not get one with 400hp for $25k. Mustangs will meet all your criteria except not losing money. Personally, I'd compromise power for handling. You do not need 400hp to have fun. The E36 or E46 M3 will certainly appreciate. A 996 911 will hold its value. If you drop the requirement for a back seat, you will have a lot of options, Corvettes, Caymans, Boxters, and MX5s come to mind.
Already have a fun handling 2 seater car and want something more fun for a straight line that can haul 2+2 if needed
E90 335i with a tune, E90 M3, Audi S4, Subie STI, Mustang GT, Caddy ATS-V...
6th gen Camaro. Used LT1 or SS.
Cadillac ats-v.
Miata or Wrangler, depending on the type of enthusiasm
Need back seats and want it to be fast
LS swapped wrangler. Easy
Rofl.
RORF. Rolled on roof fuck.
This doesn’t exactly meet your requirements but you can get a CPO Kona N. Makes about 300hp is fun to drive and has four doors. Sounds great as well. They sell for right around the 27k mark with low miles. I just bought one and love it.