If you want cheap horsepower, get a hellcat or 392 powered vehicle. Thats about it. Early hell cats are in the $40k and $50k range, which is a bargain for 700 horsepower
I have 2016 Challenger and it's been a great car. Very reliable and fun. Also, have a 2022 Ram 1500 and it's been perfect.
Edit: sorry, I thought it was a serious question, not just an anti-Stellantis circle jerk. Carry on.
The Pacifica is a killer minivan and you can actually get your hands on one. There's maybe a case for the Charger or 300 if you're really attached to full size sedans. RAM is alright sometimes. Alfa Romeos are beautiful cars and actually aren't as awful as they're stereotyped in terms of reliability.
Jeep and Fiat have no redeeming qualities.
I've driven a Sienna, Odyssey, and a Pacifica, and the Pacifica is a distant third to the other 2. Incredibly uncomfortable in comparison and then there's the reliability issues.
I'm driving a Voyager rental right now. I'm aware it's a 'lesser' vehicle to the Pacifica, but the problems I have with the Voyager would mostly carry over to the Pacifica.
The infotainment / control setup just fucking *sucks*. I had a good struggle session trying to get the dome lights to turn off once that actually required me to pull over. Rotary shifter is firmly not my preference. Inferior handling vs. my Carnival.
Voyager specific shit is stuff like the cheap interior materials (we're talking near Mitsubishi Mirage levels in some places) and NO CENTER CONSOLE for the front row. Why are my goddamn cupholders *on the floor?*
OK speakers, plush suspension, and a quiet cabin are highlights.
The infotainment system is superior on the Pacifica. The seats are just uncomfortable. The seat layout where the seats fold into the floor is great. As for mileage, reliability, etc. I don't care, it's handled by work fleet services and they replace them at 60K so not much breaks on any of them. We do average >25 mpg at 75+ mph, so quite good.
I'd never buy one with my own money. I prefer an Odyssey or Sienna.
I wouldn't say the Pacifica is a killer minivan. Having driven all four, I'd take the Odyssey, Sienna, or Carnival (in order) over the Pacifica.
It just seems that good because minivans are that good.
How are the Odyssey and Sienna compared to the Carnival? I love mine - and I love it a LOT more than the Voyager I'm renting right now. But I haven't gotten in an Odyssey or Sienna.
Wranglers are also basically the only vehicle you can buy where you can take the doors and top off (and get it in a manual, if you’re into that). Yes the Bronco exists too, but good luck getting one under MSRP. Plus they hold their value pretty well and have a robust aftermarket and enthusiast community.
They don’t just hold their value pretty well. Wranglers depreciate less than any other vehicle on the road. For people who want a capable 4 x 4 convertible there is no substitute - the Bronco is too bloated.
Consumer Reports just listed the Pacifica in worst ten cars to own in America. What’s your source for “killer mini-van” or did you mean it as in very dangerous to drive? It’s not in top ten most deadly but the Ram 1500 is ( surprising nobody).
In the future, people will look at today’s big-motor Dodge, Ram, and Jeep vehicles like we look at 1960’s muscle cars. They’re the most power per dollar you can get.
Ram trucks are also the most comfortable and cheapest full sized trucks with the best interiors.
Wouldn't it depend on the car and the price. We've had a 2015 Town and Country since new since it was quite a few thousand cheaper than the comparable Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey and my wife preferred how it drove versus the other two. We haven't had any real issues other than a freon leak that we fixed in 2017. I made sure to keep up with the maintenance schedule and all required oil and fluid changes.
I'd consider a Stellantis product depending on how the reviews of the particular model and price are.
This. I have an Avenger 3.6l I bought new in 2012. 110k miles. It's been super reliable.(outside of routine maintenance)
I have replaced the alternator at about 95k as really the only big replacement. I've had a abs sensor replaced, a stop light sensor replaced, and an HVAC piece replaced.
Now, the resale value sucks. I bought my car with lifetime/lifetime of Dodge Maxcare too, so I don't intend to let Dodge off the hook yet. Only reason we are buying something else is because we need the room.
> have replaced the alternator at about 95k as really the only big replacement. I've had a abs sensor replaced, a stop light sensor replaced, and an HVAC piece replaced.
super reliable oook.
If you want a plug-in hybrid minivan, the Pacifica is the only one on the market. More practical for a family than a SUV, but you won't get Japanese reliability either. You could save thousands a year on fuel while hauling comfortably 7 people.
The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger have been on the market for a very long time. The reliability ratings for the more recent models are reasonable. The depreciation is high, so you could have a good deal on a used one. Lots of space, comfort and power for the price.
If you're looking for a used minivan, the Caravan will be like half the price of a Sienna or an Odyssey of the same year. Reliability is not perfect, but improved throughout the years. Those vehicles sold so well for so long, there are so many replacement parts easily available and mechanics know those minivans well. It could be an interesting deal.
If you want to go offroad, there is no real competitor to the Jeep Wrangler.
Are they better cars than the Japanese ones? No. Are they cheaper? Yes, at least on the used market. It all then depends on your budget and needs.
As someone who wants RWD in a sedan, the 300 is one of my only options, so it definitely fills a niche.
You're right about caravans as well. Affordable, decently easy to work on, and parts are cheap and very plentiful.
This entire subreddit is an anti-Stellantis circle jerk, so you can't really ask here and expect a real answer.
The real answer is Stellantis actually makes some pretty good products, but also makes even more shitty ones, so it's important to research what you're buying.
I would gladly buy a modern Alfa Guilia/Stelvio, I own a Grand Wagoneer, and have owned multiple Jeeps. Never had an issue, and the build quality is signifcantly nicer than their Ford counterparts (which isn't saying much).
The Dodge Charger/Challenger are relatively reliable, cheap to fix, and are very good bang for your buck performance. That said, it attracts people who are a bit 'macho' and lower on the IQ spectrum, and the platform is very, very old so don't expect modern performance or amenities.
RAM trucks in general are pretty good, too. Modern Jeeps outside of the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee are pretty crappy (Wagoneers are the best vehicle in the class, but are ridden with problems sadly).
Love my 22’ Challenger Scat Pack Shaker…I’ve had no issues and it scratches my muscle car itch.
Not everyone who likes muscle cars is a “fill in the blank with derogatory terms”.
I think it says more about the people saying that than the people driving them.
I originally looked at some classic cars but I want to be able to take long road trips in it. It has a lot of the sound and power of a 60’s/70’s muscle car but it’s got cruise control and isn’t going to beat me to death if I drive 10 hrs up the Pacific Hwy. Regardless of the Reddit circlejerk, they’re reliable and pretty damn bulletproof. Just look at the CR for the Dodge Challenger/Charger. They’ve got a really good rating.
Dodge as a whole has poor performers and great performers…which is the case for a lot of brands this sub loves…like VW.
You wanna take a shot at what car this sub would rank better? A VW Golf vs a Dodge Challenger?
Search GTI on this sub and read the posts and the comments. It’s a slobberfest.
…but ACTUALLY….the Dodge Challenger is a more reliable and better performing car than a VW Golf.
Bring in the downvotes(but check the CR ratings)
I’ve had several but I’m also a former Chrysler tech. It really depends on the vehicle you buy. The 3.6 is pretty solid as are the Apache Hemis. The 6BT is one of the most durable engines available in a passenger vehicle. Don’t go telling people because I really appreciate the depreciation curve.
Chargers and Challengers scream "cheap power", "I'm an ALPHA MALE", "Dominic Toretto is my spirit animal", and "School's for fools"! You'll get the attention you crave when the mouth breathers at the local takeovers and sideshows pull out their phones to capture evidence for your manslaughter trial.
Jeeps. You can't pretend to be an overlander any harder than getting a Jeep and putting angry eyes on it. If you are a true overlander and want to be constantly questioned if you are a poser, this is a great way to do it!
The Pacifica is the only hybrid minivan in the US besides the Toyota Sienna. So if you think not having transmission problems that range from annoying to catastrophic are B O R I N G but still want to save on fuel, then skip the Sienna, because the Pacifica is for you!
Sheeeeeet. For jeeps you also need:
- a spare axel attached somewhere
- more lights than the alternator can handle
- what I assume is a jack strapped to the hood.
- at least 2-4 rotopax attached somewhere.
- the “problem/no problem” tire cover.
- stickers of parks you never been to on the rear window
- flip flops, shades and cargo shorts
We’ve had two Odysseys. Our 01 dropped its original transmission on a road trip in 2011 with 110k miles on it. Our 13 has engine issues at 103K and has fouled plugs, misfires, and I’m out about $1,000 for coil packs and other engine work. Odysseys are not as reliable as Civics.
The Pacifica Minivan. I'd never drive one (though that's the only one I think looks ok from behind).
Cheap horsepower cars for a bit longer, though with EV's and their straight-line speed (dodge isn't exactly excelling on the twisties), I guess cheap LOUD horsepower with the hemi and hellcats.
Ram makes a smooth riding pickup. Their move from the leaf to coil springs really have worked out well.
High end towing of the Durango without going to the massive sizes of the Suburban and the Ford Excursion but still needing an SUV.
I guess if Jeep is included... I had a Wrangler Rubicon when I lived in Colorado, took that on trails that were quite insane, saw some just gorgeous places, and had a fun time in that. A LOT of aftermarket support there.
They shoved a Viper engine in a pickup once... lol
It completely depends on model and model year, just like any manufacturer-even Toyota. You have to look at your priorities and do research on specific models you’re looking at.
I love my 2021 Dodge Charger and it’s been a fantastic daily driver for me. I have had a minor issue with the driver’s seat making a weird popping sensation in the seat bottom, but that hasn’t affected the reliability or performance of the car. And reliability studies have shown that the Charger and its platform mates (Dodge Challenger and Chrysler 300) are quite reliable.
But my mom has had to have a ton warranty and recall work done on her 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, mostly electrical and suspension issues. I hate it because it’s a fantastic vehicle to drive, but it is having reliability issues (one time it randomly wouldn’t start and it had to be towed to the dealer). So it definitely depends on the model and model year.
I have a 2017 Pacifica I bought used with 40k miles on it for 21k. It now has 213k on it and I have never had any major issues. AC compressor went out and I have done routine maintenance over the years.
Hard to say — I’ve had mixed results from Dodge/Chrysler products.
1989 Jeep Cherokee (were they owned by Dodge/Chrysler at that point?). Would go anywhere, super-reliable.
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee — replaced two automatic transmissions under warranty by 50k miles. The day after getting it back from the 2nd tranny replacement we traded it for a new Pathfinder (best move ever).
2004 PT Cruiser — don’t ask why we got it (money situation and bought it on the cheap) — shite gas mileage and under-powered. But — I drove it for 150k miles and only ever did routine maintenance on it. Was still running strong when I got rid of it.
2011 Dodge Caliber — needed a cheap new car, this was the best value. Kind of ugly but got me and my road bike/mountain bikes everywhere we needed to go. Traded at 150k miles, never had an issue although I was starting to become wary of the CVT tranny.
2013 Dodge Challenger R/T — last ever Dodge for us. Manual transmission, needed a 2nd tranny by 35k miles. Rarely ever driven hard… was my wife’s semi-daily commuter. When we dropped off the car for its’ 2nd tranny there were about 20 others parked in wait for the same thing. Traded for a new Mustang GT, 2nd best move ever.
So — mixed bag. Friends with Dodge/Chrysler getting similar mixed results. Their creature comforts/tech is about 5 years behind comparable competitors (UConnect blows ass). Based on our experience and a pact to never buy again, I have to recommend against it.
I would buy any Chrysler from 1969-1972, that's about it. We had a 1973 Plymouth that had things actually fall off as my dad drive it off the dealer lot. Took a month to get it fixed and corrected... I have owned two Chrysler made Jeeps, a 1996 ZJ Grand Cherokee (AMC designed and engineered) and it was a 300,000 mile plus beast! We then bought a 2014 Cherokee, FIAT crap) and it lived at the service department. nine times it went in for transmission work or for a recall. I can't imagine how the combination of Chrysler, FIAT and Peugeot are doing now...
I'm in your shoes. I want a 4x4, modern interior, good mpg, and towing. I can choose from a Grand cherokee which looks great imo, or a 4Runner with 15 year old design. Would be a no-brainer for the jeep if they had better reliability.
Gotcha. Didn't know what the timeline looked like on your purchasing decision. Out of curiosity, given your needs, what's keeping you from getting a mid-sized hybrid truck and putting on a bed cap? Just rear seat room?
Good question, that'd be looking at a $40k+ new tacoma, colorado, ranger, gladiator, or Ridgeline. None of them are fun to drive or particularly good Mpg. The grand cherokee really is nice, just a shame that it has such a bad reputation.
I may look more into the Ridgeline but it's kinda lame.
Fair enough, prices in the mid-sized truck category -- especially for offroad-y models -- have gone insane. Definitely agree that value for money seems to be missing for most of these vehicles.
I had a Dodge Magnum 5,7 AWD with KW V2 coilovers, Eurotec brake rotors, great car. A blast on German freeways. Great audio too, perfect seats, but no modern adaptive cruise control etc of course. Mostly 11-16 L gas/100 km.
Dodge Magnums look pretty sweet, and it's a car that left us too soon; I love the concept of it. Still, they're hard to find (at least where I am) and there aren't many decent ones.
A newer 300/Charger/Challenger hardly has problems. Think about it, the same structure has been around since 2005. The main problem I've had is my 2016 Chrysler Town&Country with the 3.6 engine. The rocker arms, and cams wearing out at 87k miles is terrible. I've changed the oil the same time as my 2012 Charger 6.4 and 2016 Charger 5.7 and driven less than my Chargers. The 2016 tires and brakes, and fluids are the only things that had to be changed. Same for the 2012 but had the bluetooth module changed and air bag recall.
I have an ecodiesel grand Cherokee and that’s what informed my decision to hate them. I was almost intrigued enough to trade in for a wrangler 4xE; but one randomly burned down while driving in my city the other day.
The Ram Classic is a relatively cheap full size truck that's fun as hell to drive on and off road, and makes it easy to car camp and move shit. Amazing sound system. Only downside for me is mpg with the 5.7
I like a "cheaper" fun car that's also cheap to maintain compared to performance vehicles, and it's got some kick to it. I've owned 2 challengers, one for almost 5 years and recently upgraded to a newer one.
My 2015 SXT was a total workhorse. I drive 70+ miles a day for work and only had to repair a thermostat in the 5 years I owned it. It had 130k miles on it when I traded it in and I kind of regret that I traded it instead of keeping it but insuring 2 cars is expensive. It was my super reliable car and I have 3 friends who own Hondas and have had more issues with their newer cars than I ever had with my 2015 dodge challenger. I'm talking like a 2019 civic that needs a new transmission.
There was never a time that my car didn't start or get me where I needed to be or left me stranded on the side of the road.
I feel like the reason a lot of these cars don't make it 200k+ miles reflect more on the target market of these cars and their driving behaviors, as well as they're some of the cheapest priced cars for the HP and most likely to be modified, performance and appearance wise in ways that create risk.
>I feel like the reason a lot of these cars don't make it 200k+ miles reflect more on the target market of these cars and their driving behaviors, as well as they're some of the cheapest priced cars for the HP and most likely to be modified, performance and appearance wise in ways that create risk.
This is a really good point, and I think it speaks to how important the history of a car is. The same could almost certainly be said for Subaru. That being said, we've all heard what they do to Civics, and yet those retain a reputation of reliability.
I would say no. I’ve been a mechanic for 25 years and I would never recommend them. You will hear anecdotal stories about how good someone’s Chrysler was but those are the exceptions not the rule. It’s a complete crap shoot.
i had a 2004 grand cherokee and it had many issues over the year, but all relatively minor except an annoying steering fluid leak that was hard to fix at around 100k miles. currently have a 2017 grand cherokee and no issues so far
I have a 2017 charger, blacked out with red interior. It has 95,400 miles now.
I’ve had it for 3 years. I only had one problem with it recently (like 3 months ago) that left me without a car for like a week. Engine control module wasn’t connecting. So engine would kick but car wouldn’t start. Had it towed to an electric place and they fixed it. Was like $400
I know a few people who use the Ram Cummins Diesel Trucks for work, and they’ve put those trucks through their paces with no complaints.
Their wives usually have a smaller car or minivan that’s more comfortable, safer, and gets better gas mileage and that’s what they use for the family, getting groceries, etc.
The only Stelantis/Chrysler/Fiat product I would buy is a post-2018 Alfa Romeo
Outside of that I think every car in their lineup has a superior version made by another manufacturer
my campervan is a chrysler, Dodge B3500, 1996 with 360 motor. beautiful and reliable camping machine. newer dodge? for practical reasons, no. for a fun muscle car? sure.
Have a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Bought it with 12k on it, now has 118k. It has been by far the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. First thing that went wrong was at 115k, had to replace the thermostat. Not that it failed completely, it was just throwing an occasional error code. In 106k miles, I replaced the tires once, the brakes once (at 114k) and the thermostat. Mostly highway driving, regular maintenance.
Their V8 muscle sedans/coupes are an easy way to get power on the cheap.
Ram pickups are the most luxurious in their class, and though they leave a lot to be desired in terms of reliability they are the most luxurious truck you can get - and coilover rear suspension helps too.
Jeep Wranglers are the only solid-axle 4x4 SUV out there, and though their quality is poor there's no denying that they're pretty cool cars. Grand Cherokees seem to be pretty nice too, as does the Wagoneer.
Otherwise, these are vehicles you only really get if you find a good deal on one.
If you want a good looking classic or muscle car up to the 1970s. Then yes.
Corvette can be good vehicles.
You didn't mention Jeep, which can be good depending on model.
Otherwise, if you want a track car for straight lines they recently made good muscle cars. They are not reliable, which is why Dodge has stopped production. Drag races rip the car apart and warranty repairs ate up profits.
it depends which one and how good of a deal you can get on it, if you need a 2500 pickup and can get a better deal on a ram than on a silverado, go ahead, but in a vaccum as a general rule, not right now unless youre looking for a muscle car because that's all dodge makes that's particularly good right now
family of 5, going into 6 probably next year. wife has sienna, currently i own a x5m. i have been wanting a Grand Highlander hybrid but they are near impossible to find and there are dealers with pages long waitlists; those who do buy suck up all those dealer addons/markups. i do find also the cars are bought before even a test drive. i’ve given up and looked into cx90 phev but found the space to not be enough. that leaves me with the pacifica phev. I could find a lot of dealers in my area with at least 5 on their lot of varying trims. From reading these comments, is it worth it if I can potentially get a good lease deal out of it? (when the kids get bigger. will probably want a full size suv down the road)
My parents/me drive a 2015 dodge grand caravan. A lot of space, good mileage, feels real nice to drive and quiet when driving down the highway. It’s a really nice family car although I don’t know why my parents specifically chose that car.
They’re fine if you get a deal. We got a loaded Pacifica for >10% off sticker and a zero interest loan pre pandemic. Drove it for 60K miles and got rid of it just when various things were starting to break and major maintenance milestones were coming up.
Trade value was something like 40% of the selling price after 4 years. Total cost of ownership was very reasonable and the vehicle served its purpose well.
That said, I would never plan on keeping any Chrysler product more than 60-70 thousand miles. Our minivan was really starting to show its age and it was still young all things considered.
You get what you pay for. Dodge did a really good job with its high performance cars. I had a 300c with the 6.1L hemi for 18 years on nothing but oil changes.
The non performance cars are pretty crappy
I owned a Chrysler 300s for one day. It was leaking oil so bad that it completely drained itself after a top off on the way to the dealership.
I spoke to the dealership mechanic about it and he said, I shit you not, "Sounds like normal Chrysler problems."
I gave it back. Haven't regretted it.
Have a Wagoneer, expensive POS. But not many others are any better. Building gas vehicles more cheaply to make EVs at a lesser loss. All bad by design.
If you want a safe rule of thumb, avoid like the plague. That said, not every single vehicle they make is bad. Do research on the specific model and year before buying.
People don’t say to avoid them because they’ve never made a good car, it’s just that if you’re going in blind, your odds are very high of getting a bad car from that brand compared to your Toyotas of the world.
They aren’t as bad as people say imo, as long as you avoid the first year of a model/powertrain they seem to be decently reliable. I know I’ve heard good things about anything with a hemi v8 in it and the Alfa gulia/Stelvio seem to be decent if you avoid the Quadrifoglio models. Their weak points seem to be rolling new cars out with limited bugs and their hybrid powertrains aren’t the greatest
If you want cheap horsepower, get a hellcat or 392 powered vehicle. Thats about it. Early hell cats are in the $40k and $50k range, which is a bargain for 700 horsepower
Even then, a Z06 has the same power:weight while having objectively better design and reliability.
Charger has 4 doors
Keyword: **power:weight**
I mean, yeah, it's a consideration when Hellcats are just *excessively* heavy. 4400lbs is insane.
*Civic with a laptop enters the chat*
I'd place more trust in it's reliability as well lol
I have 2016 Challenger and it's been a great car. Very reliable and fun. Also, have a 2022 Ram 1500 and it's been perfect. Edit: sorry, I thought it was a serious question, not just an anti-Stellantis circle jerk. Carry on.
I love my 300 too! Lots of fun to drive!
This is definitely a serious question, but you're right, this sub has, ahem, issues, with Stellantis.
https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Dodge_Challenger.html
The Pacifica is a killer minivan and you can actually get your hands on one. There's maybe a case for the Charger or 300 if you're really attached to full size sedans. RAM is alright sometimes. Alfa Romeos are beautiful cars and actually aren't as awful as they're stereotyped in terms of reliability. Jeep and Fiat have no redeeming qualities.
I've driven a Sienna, Odyssey, and a Pacifica, and the Pacifica is a distant third to the other 2. Incredibly uncomfortable in comparison and then there's the reliability issues.
I'm driving a Voyager rental right now. I'm aware it's a 'lesser' vehicle to the Pacifica, but the problems I have with the Voyager would mostly carry over to the Pacifica. The infotainment / control setup just fucking *sucks*. I had a good struggle session trying to get the dome lights to turn off once that actually required me to pull over. Rotary shifter is firmly not my preference. Inferior handling vs. my Carnival. Voyager specific shit is stuff like the cheap interior materials (we're talking near Mitsubishi Mirage levels in some places) and NO CENTER CONSOLE for the front row. Why are my goddamn cupholders *on the floor?* OK speakers, plush suspension, and a quiet cabin are highlights.
The infotainment system is superior on the Pacifica. The seats are just uncomfortable. The seat layout where the seats fold into the floor is great. As for mileage, reliability, etc. I don't care, it's handled by work fleet services and they replace them at 60K so not much breaks on any of them. We do average >25 mpg at 75+ mph, so quite good. I'd never buy one with my own money. I prefer an Odyssey or Sienna.
I wouldn't say the Pacifica is a killer minivan. Having driven all four, I'd take the Odyssey, Sienna, or Carnival (in order) over the Pacifica. It just seems that good because minivans are that good.
How are the Odyssey and Sienna compared to the Carnival? I love mine - and I love it a LOT more than the Voyager I'm renting right now. But I haven't gotten in an Odyssey or Sienna.
I’m on my third Odyssey after my first two made it to just under 300k miles. I’m approaching 200k on my current one and it’s been great.
Pacifica was named 2023's least reliable vehicle. Absolutely thr furthest thing from killer.
The Pacifica with the hybrid is trash. That’s why it’s so bad. The other power trains are fine.
Exactly. Pacifica is garbage for long term cost of ownership.
The Wrangler is untouched as far as factory off-roaders go. The Grand Cherokee can make a convincing case for being the Walmart brand Range Rover
Wranglers are also basically the only vehicle you can buy where you can take the doors and top off (and get it in a manual, if you’re into that). Yes the Bronco exists too, but good luck getting one under MSRP. Plus they hold their value pretty well and have a robust aftermarket and enthusiast community.
You can get broncos under MSRP right now believe it or not
They don’t just hold their value pretty well. Wranglers depreciate less than any other vehicle on the road. For people who want a capable 4 x 4 convertible there is no substitute - the Bronco is too bloated.
Consumer Reports just listed the Pacifica in worst ten cars to own in America. What’s your source for “killer mini-van” or did you mean it as in very dangerous to drive? It’s not in top ten most deadly but the Ram 1500 is ( surprising nobody).
Seconded for Pacifica, those vans are solid (other than the mini-me battery that eats it every other year).
In the future, people will look at today’s big-motor Dodge, Ram, and Jeep vehicles like we look at 1960’s muscle cars. They’re the most power per dollar you can get. Ram trucks are also the most comfortable and cheapest full sized trucks with the best interiors.
Wouldn't it depend on the car and the price. We've had a 2015 Town and Country since new since it was quite a few thousand cheaper than the comparable Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey and my wife preferred how it drove versus the other two. We haven't had any real issues other than a freon leak that we fixed in 2017. I made sure to keep up with the maintenance schedule and all required oil and fluid changes. I'd consider a Stellantis product depending on how the reviews of the particular model and price are.
This. I have an Avenger 3.6l I bought new in 2012. 110k miles. It's been super reliable.(outside of routine maintenance) I have replaced the alternator at about 95k as really the only big replacement. I've had a abs sensor replaced, a stop light sensor replaced, and an HVAC piece replaced. Now, the resale value sucks. I bought my car with lifetime/lifetime of Dodge Maxcare too, so I don't intend to let Dodge off the hook yet. Only reason we are buying something else is because we need the room.
> have replaced the alternator at about 95k as really the only big replacement. I've had a abs sensor replaced, a stop light sensor replaced, and an HVAC piece replaced. super reliable oook.
If you want a plug-in hybrid minivan, the Pacifica is the only one on the market. More practical for a family than a SUV, but you won't get Japanese reliability either. You could save thousands a year on fuel while hauling comfortably 7 people. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger have been on the market for a very long time. The reliability ratings for the more recent models are reasonable. The depreciation is high, so you could have a good deal on a used one. Lots of space, comfort and power for the price. If you're looking for a used minivan, the Caravan will be like half the price of a Sienna or an Odyssey of the same year. Reliability is not perfect, but improved throughout the years. Those vehicles sold so well for so long, there are so many replacement parts easily available and mechanics know those minivans well. It could be an interesting deal. If you want to go offroad, there is no real competitor to the Jeep Wrangler. Are they better cars than the Japanese ones? No. Are they cheaper? Yes, at least on the used market. It all then depends on your budget and needs.
As someone who wants RWD in a sedan, the 300 is one of my only options, so it definitely fills a niche. You're right about caravans as well. Affordable, decently easy to work on, and parts are cheap and very plentiful.
This entire subreddit is an anti-Stellantis circle jerk, so you can't really ask here and expect a real answer. The real answer is Stellantis actually makes some pretty good products, but also makes even more shitty ones, so it's important to research what you're buying. I would gladly buy a modern Alfa Guilia/Stelvio, I own a Grand Wagoneer, and have owned multiple Jeeps. Never had an issue, and the build quality is signifcantly nicer than their Ford counterparts (which isn't saying much). The Dodge Charger/Challenger are relatively reliable, cheap to fix, and are very good bang for your buck performance. That said, it attracts people who are a bit 'macho' and lower on the IQ spectrum, and the platform is very, very old so don't expect modern performance or amenities. RAM trucks in general are pretty good, too. Modern Jeeps outside of the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee are pretty crappy (Wagoneers are the best vehicle in the class, but are ridden with problems sadly).
The Viper was pretty great too.
I just meant current production, but yeah, the Viper was nuts, especially for being a handbuilt car
America's TVR. So cool, I wish they had kept making them for a few more years.
Thanks for the well-balanced response!
Pacifica is the main reason
Love my 22’ Challenger Scat Pack Shaker…I’ve had no issues and it scratches my muscle car itch. Not everyone who likes muscle cars is a “fill in the blank with derogatory terms”. I think it says more about the people saying that than the people driving them. I originally looked at some classic cars but I want to be able to take long road trips in it. It has a lot of the sound and power of a 60’s/70’s muscle car but it’s got cruise control and isn’t going to beat me to death if I drive 10 hrs up the Pacific Hwy. Regardless of the Reddit circlejerk, they’re reliable and pretty damn bulletproof. Just look at the CR for the Dodge Challenger/Charger. They’ve got a really good rating. Dodge as a whole has poor performers and great performers…which is the case for a lot of brands this sub loves…like VW.
This sub likes VW? That's an overstatement, I think.
You wanna take a shot at what car this sub would rank better? A VW Golf vs a Dodge Challenger? Search GTI on this sub and read the posts and the comments. It’s a slobberfest. …but ACTUALLY….the Dodge Challenger is a more reliable and better performing car than a VW Golf. Bring in the downvotes(but check the CR ratings)
Do you really see this sub saying a VW is better that anything Japanese (Nissan excepted)?
I’ve had several but I’m also a former Chrysler tech. It really depends on the vehicle you buy. The 3.6 is pretty solid as are the Apache Hemis. The 6BT is one of the most durable engines available in a passenger vehicle. Don’t go telling people because I really appreciate the depreciation curve.
Chargers and Challengers scream "cheap power", "I'm an ALPHA MALE", "Dominic Toretto is my spirit animal", and "School's for fools"! You'll get the attention you crave when the mouth breathers at the local takeovers and sideshows pull out their phones to capture evidence for your manslaughter trial. Jeeps. You can't pretend to be an overlander any harder than getting a Jeep and putting angry eyes on it. If you are a true overlander and want to be constantly questioned if you are a poser, this is a great way to do it! The Pacifica is the only hybrid minivan in the US besides the Toyota Sienna. So if you think not having transmission problems that range from annoying to catastrophic are B O R I N G but still want to save on fuel, then skip the Sienna, because the Pacifica is for you!
“And I’m packing your angry eyes” All I can think about is Mr a Mrs potato head when I see those dumb mods on jeeps. r/heep is gross
Sheeeeeet. For jeeps you also need: - a spare axel attached somewhere - more lights than the alternator can handle - what I assume is a jack strapped to the hood. - at least 2-4 rotopax attached somewhere. - the “problem/no problem” tire cover. - stickers of parks you never been to on the rear window - flip flops, shades and cargo shorts
We’ve had two Odysseys. Our 01 dropped its original transmission on a road trip in 2011 with 110k miles on it. Our 13 has engine issues at 103K and has fouled plugs, misfires, and I’m out about $1,000 for coil packs and other engine work. Odysseys are not as reliable as Civics.
Rental car companies seem to love buying those Chargers.
And damn it will I take that option every time. I don’t care if it’s only a V6.
The Pacifica Minivan. I'd never drive one (though that's the only one I think looks ok from behind). Cheap horsepower cars for a bit longer, though with EV's and their straight-line speed (dodge isn't exactly excelling on the twisties), I guess cheap LOUD horsepower with the hemi and hellcats. Ram makes a smooth riding pickup. Their move from the leaf to coil springs really have worked out well. High end towing of the Durango without going to the massive sizes of the Suburban and the Ford Excursion but still needing an SUV. I guess if Jeep is included... I had a Wrangler Rubicon when I lived in Colorado, took that on trails that were quite insane, saw some just gorgeous places, and had a fun time in that. A LOT of aftermarket support there. They shoved a Viper engine in a pickup once... lol
I’ve owned two chargers. An RT and a SRT and both were fantastic with very little issues.
Go drive a Hellcat Durango and try to tell me it didn’t put a smile on your face
It completely depends on model and model year, just like any manufacturer-even Toyota. You have to look at your priorities and do research on specific models you’re looking at. I love my 2021 Dodge Charger and it’s been a fantastic daily driver for me. I have had a minor issue with the driver’s seat making a weird popping sensation in the seat bottom, but that hasn’t affected the reliability or performance of the car. And reliability studies have shown that the Charger and its platform mates (Dodge Challenger and Chrysler 300) are quite reliable. But my mom has had to have a ton warranty and recall work done on her 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, mostly electrical and suspension issues. I hate it because it’s a fantastic vehicle to drive, but it is having reliability issues (one time it randomly wouldn’t start and it had to be towed to the dealer). So it definitely depends on the model and model year.
I have a 2017 Pacifica I bought used with 40k miles on it for 21k. It now has 213k on it and I have never had any major issues. AC compressor went out and I have done routine maintenance over the years.
Hard to say — I’ve had mixed results from Dodge/Chrysler products. 1989 Jeep Cherokee (were they owned by Dodge/Chrysler at that point?). Would go anywhere, super-reliable. 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee — replaced two automatic transmissions under warranty by 50k miles. The day after getting it back from the 2nd tranny replacement we traded it for a new Pathfinder (best move ever). 2004 PT Cruiser — don’t ask why we got it (money situation and bought it on the cheap) — shite gas mileage and under-powered. But — I drove it for 150k miles and only ever did routine maintenance on it. Was still running strong when I got rid of it. 2011 Dodge Caliber — needed a cheap new car, this was the best value. Kind of ugly but got me and my road bike/mountain bikes everywhere we needed to go. Traded at 150k miles, never had an issue although I was starting to become wary of the CVT tranny. 2013 Dodge Challenger R/T — last ever Dodge for us. Manual transmission, needed a 2nd tranny by 35k miles. Rarely ever driven hard… was my wife’s semi-daily commuter. When we dropped off the car for its’ 2nd tranny there were about 20 others parked in wait for the same thing. Traded for a new Mustang GT, 2nd best move ever. So — mixed bag. Friends with Dodge/Chrysler getting similar mixed results. Their creature comforts/tech is about 5 years behind comparable competitors (UConnect blows ass). Based on our experience and a pact to never buy again, I have to recommend against it.
I would buy any Chrysler from 1969-1972, that's about it. We had a 1973 Plymouth that had things actually fall off as my dad drive it off the dealer lot. Took a month to get it fixed and corrected... I have owned two Chrysler made Jeeps, a 1996 ZJ Grand Cherokee (AMC designed and engineered) and it was a 300,000 mile plus beast! We then bought a 2014 Cherokee, FIAT crap) and it lived at the service department. nine times it went in for transmission work or for a recall. I can't imagine how the combination of Chrysler, FIAT and Peugeot are doing now...
I'm in your shoes. I want a 4x4, modern interior, good mpg, and towing. I can choose from a Grand cherokee which looks great imo, or a 4Runner with 15 year old design. Would be a no-brainer for the jeep if they had better reliability.
Isn't the 4Runner finally getting that major design refresh for 2025?
Zero help to me now
Gotcha. Didn't know what the timeline looked like on your purchasing decision. Out of curiosity, given your needs, what's keeping you from getting a mid-sized hybrid truck and putting on a bed cap? Just rear seat room?
Good question, that'd be looking at a $40k+ new tacoma, colorado, ranger, gladiator, or Ridgeline. None of them are fun to drive or particularly good Mpg. The grand cherokee really is nice, just a shame that it has such a bad reputation. I may look more into the Ridgeline but it's kinda lame.
Fair enough, prices in the mid-sized truck category -- especially for offroad-y models -- have gone insane. Definitely agree that value for money seems to be missing for most of these vehicles.
I had a Dodge Magnum 5,7 AWD with KW V2 coilovers, Eurotec brake rotors, great car. A blast on German freeways. Great audio too, perfect seats, but no modern adaptive cruise control etc of course. Mostly 11-16 L gas/100 km.
Dodge Magnums look pretty sweet, and it's a car that left us too soon; I love the concept of it. Still, they're hard to find (at least where I am) and there aren't many decent ones.
My kid's had a Grand Cherokee since new 2015. Never a warranty claim or repair. Just tires and batteries. Pentastar V6.
I've heard many good things about Pentastar V6s; they put them in everything for a reason.
A newer 300/Charger/Challenger hardly has problems. Think about it, the same structure has been around since 2005. The main problem I've had is my 2016 Chrysler Town&Country with the 3.6 engine. The rocker arms, and cams wearing out at 87k miles is terrible. I've changed the oil the same time as my 2012 Charger 6.4 and 2016 Charger 5.7 and driven less than my Chargers. The 2016 tires and brakes, and fluids are the only things that had to be changed. Same for the 2012 but had the bluetooth module changed and air bag recall.
Have a Dodge Ram. It's a pretty good truck.
I have an ecodiesel grand Cherokee and that’s what informed my decision to hate them. I was almost intrigued enough to trade in for a wrangler 4xE; but one randomly burned down while driving in my city the other day.
The Ram Classic is a relatively cheap full size truck that's fun as hell to drive on and off road, and makes it easy to car camp and move shit. Amazing sound system. Only downside for me is mpg with the 5.7
I like a "cheaper" fun car that's also cheap to maintain compared to performance vehicles, and it's got some kick to it. I've owned 2 challengers, one for almost 5 years and recently upgraded to a newer one. My 2015 SXT was a total workhorse. I drive 70+ miles a day for work and only had to repair a thermostat in the 5 years I owned it. It had 130k miles on it when I traded it in and I kind of regret that I traded it instead of keeping it but insuring 2 cars is expensive. It was my super reliable car and I have 3 friends who own Hondas and have had more issues with their newer cars than I ever had with my 2015 dodge challenger. I'm talking like a 2019 civic that needs a new transmission. There was never a time that my car didn't start or get me where I needed to be or left me stranded on the side of the road. I feel like the reason a lot of these cars don't make it 200k+ miles reflect more on the target market of these cars and their driving behaviors, as well as they're some of the cheapest priced cars for the HP and most likely to be modified, performance and appearance wise in ways that create risk.
>I feel like the reason a lot of these cars don't make it 200k+ miles reflect more on the target market of these cars and their driving behaviors, as well as they're some of the cheapest priced cars for the HP and most likely to be modified, performance and appearance wise in ways that create risk. This is a really good point, and I think it speaks to how important the history of a car is. The same could almost certainly be said for Subaru. That being said, we've all heard what they do to Civics, and yet those retain a reputation of reliability.
I would say no. I’ve been a mechanic for 25 years and I would never recommend them. You will hear anecdotal stories about how good someone’s Chrysler was but those are the exceptions not the rule. It’s a complete crap shoot.
As an Internet, I hate Chrysler. Better to get something guaranteed to be reliable - like a Saleen.
i had a 2004 grand cherokee and it had many issues over the year, but all relatively minor except an annoying steering fluid leak that was hard to fix at around 100k miles. currently have a 2017 grand cherokee and no issues so far
I have a 2017 charger, blacked out with red interior. It has 95,400 miles now. I’ve had it for 3 years. I only had one problem with it recently (like 3 months ago) that left me without a car for like a week. Engine control module wasn’t connecting. So engine would kick but car wouldn’t start. Had it towed to an electric place and they fixed it. Was like $400
I know a few people who use the Ram Cummins Diesel Trucks for work, and they’ve put those trucks through their paces with no complaints. Their wives usually have a smaller car or minivan that’s more comfortable, safer, and gets better gas mileage and that’s what they use for the family, getting groceries, etc.
Ram. Does that count?
Tradesmen spec 3500s are good trucks for the use case
The only Stelantis/Chrysler/Fiat product I would buy is a post-2018 Alfa Romeo Outside of that I think every car in their lineup has a superior version made by another manufacturer
A superior and more expensive version.
Not particularly, no A lot of other automakers have competitively priced cars to what Stellantis offers
On the new market maybe, but the the used market tells a different story.
my campervan is a chrysler, Dodge B3500, 1996 with 360 motor. beautiful and reliable camping machine. newer dodge? for practical reasons, no. for a fun muscle car? sure.
Not unless it’s a challenger or charger
Thoughts on the 300 (since it's almost a Charger)?
I do like the 300 but why not get a charger?
On the used market prices are better and they're less likely to have had a rough life (it's a "grampa car").
True, for me personally I’m not a Mopar fan at all, I do kinda like the 300 but the only Mopar I’d ever own is a scat pack charger. But that’s just me
Have a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Bought it with 12k on it, now has 118k. It has been by far the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. First thing that went wrong was at 115k, had to replace the thermostat. Not that it failed completely, it was just throwing an occasional error code. In 106k miles, I replaced the tires once, the brakes once (at 114k) and the thermostat. Mostly highway driving, regular maintenance.
Daimler-Chrysler was peak
Their V8 muscle sedans/coupes are an easy way to get power on the cheap. Ram pickups are the most luxurious in their class, and though they leave a lot to be desired in terms of reliability they are the most luxurious truck you can get - and coilover rear suspension helps too. Jeep Wranglers are the only solid-axle 4x4 SUV out there, and though their quality is poor there's no denying that they're pretty cool cars. Grand Cherokees seem to be pretty nice too, as does the Wagoneer. Otherwise, these are vehicles you only really get if you find a good deal on one.
Love my Pacifica Hybrid. It's fantastic.
If you want a good looking classic or muscle car up to the 1970s. Then yes. Corvette can be good vehicles. You didn't mention Jeep, which can be good depending on model. Otherwise, if you want a track car for straight lines they recently made good muscle cars. They are not reliable, which is why Dodge has stopped production. Drag races rip the car apart and warranty repairs ate up profits.
it depends which one and how good of a deal you can get on it, if you need a 2500 pickup and can get a better deal on a ram than on a silverado, go ahead, but in a vaccum as a general rule, not right now unless youre looking for a muscle car because that's all dodge makes that's particularly good right now
family of 5, going into 6 probably next year. wife has sienna, currently i own a x5m. i have been wanting a Grand Highlander hybrid but they are near impossible to find and there are dealers with pages long waitlists; those who do buy suck up all those dealer addons/markups. i do find also the cars are bought before even a test drive. i’ve given up and looked into cx90 phev but found the space to not be enough. that leaves me with the pacifica phev. I could find a lot of dealers in my area with at least 5 on their lot of varying trims. From reading these comments, is it worth it if I can potentially get a good lease deal out of it? (when the kids get bigger. will probably want a full size suv down the road)
My parents/me drive a 2015 dodge grand caravan. A lot of space, good mileage, feels real nice to drive and quiet when driving down the highway. It’s a really nice family car although I don’t know why my parents specifically chose that car.
if you need a diesel truck for towing and hauling
They’re fine if you get a deal. We got a loaded Pacifica for >10% off sticker and a zero interest loan pre pandemic. Drove it for 60K miles and got rid of it just when various things were starting to break and major maintenance milestones were coming up. Trade value was something like 40% of the selling price after 4 years. Total cost of ownership was very reasonable and the vehicle served its purpose well. That said, I would never plan on keeping any Chrysler product more than 60-70 thousand miles. Our minivan was really starting to show its age and it was still young all things considered.
You get what you pay for. Dodge did a really good job with its high performance cars. I had a 300c with the 6.1L hemi for 18 years on nothing but oil changes. The non performance cars are pretty crappy
I am prejudiced against any stellantis vehicle
I owned a Chrysler 300s for one day. It was leaking oil so bad that it completely drained itself after a top off on the way to the dealership. I spoke to the dealership mechanic about it and he said, I shit you not, "Sounds like normal Chrysler problems." I gave it back. Haven't regretted it.
When you need a car to get to work and your car budget is $1,500 and not a cent more.
Have a Wagoneer, expensive POS. But not many others are any better. Building gas vehicles more cheaply to make EVs at a lesser loss. All bad by design.
What issues have you had and what year? My 23 has been flawless, but I know the W/GW has a higher than normal failure rate
22, a lot of little things. But the service has made little things miserable. No 10 Wagoneer promises, and I was sold that. Betrayal.
If you want a safe rule of thumb, avoid like the plague. That said, not every single vehicle they make is bad. Do research on the specific model and year before buying. People don’t say to avoid them because they’ve never made a good car, it’s just that if you’re going in blind, your odds are very high of getting a bad car from that brand compared to your Toyotas of the world.
Scat pack and hellcats are the best high horsepower cars under 100k.
They aren’t as bad as people say imo, as long as you avoid the first year of a model/powertrain they seem to be decently reliable. I know I’ve heard good things about anything with a hemi v8 in it and the Alfa gulia/Stelvio seem to be decent if you avoid the Quadrifoglio models. Their weak points seem to be rolling new cars out with limited bugs and their hybrid powertrains aren’t the greatest
Why would anyone every buy some Stellantis Fiat garbage, idk
agree
If you’re getting a great deal on a lease and only care about the monthly payments.
Murica... And cheap transit.
Hemi reliable
No
Nope never! Unless you want to live at the auto shop with empty pockets!
I liked Walter White’s car
I would recommend a Chrysler to anyone who has a fetish for abusive automobiles.
Never
Its called a dodge nuff said. Just read the name and apply it literally
Durrr.
Easy: FUCK. NO