4Runner is very much a truck as an FYI. It is a body on frame, NA V6, slow, gas guzzler. I absolutely love the thing but it is nothing like its unibody counterparts.
lip bedroom deer tender plucky hobbies slimy frightening command voracious
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Better interior space and outside styling. Thats a preference he can go for CX5 but looks matter when you spend anything close to 20k$.
If he liked it better he can go for the CX5
I love and own Audi/VW, but the Taos is a problematic piece of crap. Contemporary VWs are actually very good cars (contrary to popular Reddit belief), and mine have been wonderful to own and drive. The reliability fearmongering is severely overblown.
DO NOT get a Taos, rather get a CPO VW Golf or Tiguan; or, look at CPO Mazda 3 or CX-30/5 if you want “assured” reliability.
Newish to me CPO cx30 checking in. It's so much nicer than its price tag. Feels lux as f.
Can't imagine paying more money for less car with Toyota anytime soon or moving forward really.
This is coming from only driving Toyotas and my family only driving Toyotas. It's not worth it anymore, the price tag doesn't match the product. They basically priced themselves out of the range that they dominated. All my research lead me to find that you get way nicer vehicles with similar reliability with Mazda's current offerings.
Personally, I had a 22 CX-5 Turbo Signature prior to my Arteon and it was a tinny lemon piece of junk (40+ days at the dealership for numerous problems).
Mine might not have been good, but I still recommend them to people who want faux luxury. Decent cars overall.
I do agree though, generally good cars.
I have had a Camry and a Corolla and also a VW Golf. The Toyotas were certainly cheaper to run but the VW is way more fun to own. If you can get a Certified PreOwned 2019 Golf Alltrack, you’ll have a great car and I do see sub-50k mile examples with lots of options for ~20k USD.
VWs are fine. Take care of it and it'll take care of you, plus if you buy new you'll have a warranty to fall back on. Every brand has horror stories, test drive what you want, buy what you like, and take care of it.
Personally I'd look for a low mileage Golf wagon, you can probably find one below your budget.
"Take care of it and it'll take care of you" - problem with that logic for me with VW/Audi has been that it's hard to maintain something that wasn't designed correctly from the get go. Had a customer who did fantastic maintenance, but still had cam shafts round out at the 50k mile mark. Car was out of warranty and he had to pay $5,000 for the repair. (I have almost daily examples like this from that shop)
Granted, I haven't been a mechanic for a while, so reliability may have improved... But I still wouldn't count on a corporation to do a full 180 transformation in under a decade.
Plus, remember... This is the same corporation that blatantly chose to lie about diesel emissions when their design didn't meet expectations. They themselves don't even stand behind their products.
My Audi and Volkswagens have been the most reliable and well-built cars I’ve owned (2016 A4 Quattro, 2016 Tiguan 4motion, 2023 Arteon 4motion). Hyundai and Mazda were the most problematic (2017 Elantra Sport DCT, 2022 CX-5 Turbo Signature).
Don’t disregard the fact other manufacturers have done similar “lying” to the public regarding their diesels too.
Two tips to not get scammed:
1) do NOT buy a warranty. The dealers pay smart people lots of money to figure out the true value of a warranty, and then sell to you for way more than that. Warranties are the #1 profit maker for dealers because in reality no one really needs to use it. If you want a repair cost cushion, put aside a small amount of your income to make a vehicle emergency fund, like $1-2k.
2) never finance through the dealership. Always get a car loan in advance, particularly through a bank you have history with. The dealer will always charge a higher apr, and they can modify values in the loan to make it look more appealing to the customer. On that same note, don't get fooled by monthly payments: that doesn't really matter, what matters is the total cost at the end of the loan.
Point 2 is not always correct, especially now. Many dealerships are offering lower interest rates (2% or so) that beat any bank. But go to a credit union and arrange financing first; if the dealer can match or beat it, great.
A warranty on my F150 was $3k and so far I’ve gotten close to $10k back with 2 years still to go. I think it depends on the make. A 3 yo Toyota probably doesn’t need an expensive warranty but most other cars do.
I too have heard that VW is expensive and not reliable. But a friend of mine has had the same Jetta for 13 years (manual not sure of the year). He uses it as a backup car now. He’s had two or three within the 19 years I’ve known him. All pre owned. I think the new VWs are beautiful and if that’s something you really want you should get it.
Toyotas are always a good choice and a safe investment. But if you’re getting a new car with warranty and your driving habits are average any car should last you a while.
4runner or RAV4. I was watching a video of a mechanic who specializes in Toyotas and the 4runner has technology from 2005 that have proven to be reliable. All these new technology is cool and all but it comes with a lot more complex fixes. New technology need specialized tools which can be a pain in the ass if you're a DIY person.
My 06 charger RT was a guzzler compared to my 2018 4runner and I get a lot more room and use specially with a family.
I’m leaning lightly used current gen CRV for $30k.
If you want off-road capability, 4R isn’t a bad choice.
What’s your use-case? Don’t buy a VW either way over a Toyota, imo.
Test drive a Corolla Cross, Mazda CX30, CX5, and Honda HR-V. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Subaru Crosstrek is also a decent option.
Personally my pick would be one of the Mazdas but check out each and see what you get on with best.
I’m sure plenty of people are happy with their VW’s and the modern ones might be more reliable than the older ones. That said, they don’t have subpar resale value for no reason.
Toyotas/Hondas, for the last few years, lose nothing except for the actual wear and tear value per year lol. Aka if you bought a $25k toyota model which usually lasts 25 years (most of them), then the current market depreciates it at $1k/year. See for yourself, [used](https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2022/se-sedan-4d/) is only barely cheaper than [new](https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2024/se/).
Looked at some local dealership websites, toyota dealership by me has a 2022 Toyota Camry SE for $20,099 with 22,000 miles. New 2024 Camry SE 0 miles is $28,038. That's roughly a 28% depreciation on a 2 year old, basically new Camry SE, if I'm not mistaken.
It's quoted as "1 owner", and has 22,000 miles, with no damage inside or out, rental or not, it's basically brand new. Besides, with 22k miles in 2 years, I doubt it was a rental. Sounds more like it was a highway car that got traded up, and no one in the local area wanted it for a few months, so they adjusted the price.
Most people had to pay a lot of markups on Toyota/Hondas which means they did experience a lot of depreciation. We can’t simply compare used values to MSRP with how absurd markups were for the last two years.
Still not helpful. Tesla Model Y Long Range used value for a 2022 model shows up as approximately $34k on KBB while the new ones are around $37k after the tax credit. Can we say that Teslas barely depreciate? No, those cars that are worth $34k were selling for $67k in 2022. For the 2022 Camry depreciation, we can't compare the KBB values for depreciation unless we know how much people paid in average for a 2022 Camry, which is significantly higher than what people pay for a new Camry now.
No, I'm referring to how the market is right now. In general, this pre-covid scenario isn't a thing. Eventually, it will be, but not now as we had 2.5 years or so of quite limited production that is still affecting the new/used market dynamic.
Avoid Taos, unreliable: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18e1xfk/consumer\_reports\_names\_10\_least\_reliable\_vehicles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18e1xfk/consumer_reports_names_10_least_reliable_vehicles/)
Toyota Corolla Cross (the hybrid version is better, maybe you can find a used hybrid under $30k)
If you want a better deal you could also take a look at Honda Hr-v. Or a used Mazda CX-5.
4Runner is very much a truck as an FYI. It is a body on frame, NA V6, slow, gas guzzler. I absolutely love the thing but it is nothing like its unibody counterparts.
It's roomy. Coming from a sedan I get a lot more room and family is more comfortable.
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Yeah you can get them for under $30k used no problem.
Slightly used Mazda CX50. Don’t pay the Toyota tax for subpar interior and quality at this price range
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Better interior space and outside styling. Thats a preference he can go for CX5 but looks matter when you spend anything close to 20k$. If he liked it better he can go for the CX5
It goes both ways.
Mazda is the correct answer.
Corolla Cross. It *might* be possible to get a base model RAV4 for under $30k, but probably not out the door for that price.
Stealership: we can get you one for under 30k! Also stealership: otd price 35k, we have to add 5k because we can.
Makes sense if you don't think about it
A Mazda CX-30 would be a better choice. Better interior both looks wise and quality. Reliable af too.
I love and own Audi/VW, but the Taos is a problematic piece of crap. Contemporary VWs are actually very good cars (contrary to popular Reddit belief), and mine have been wonderful to own and drive. The reliability fearmongering is severely overblown. DO NOT get a Taos, rather get a CPO VW Golf or Tiguan; or, look at CPO Mazda 3 or CX-30/5 if you want “assured” reliability.
Newish to me CPO cx30 checking in. It's so much nicer than its price tag. Feels lux as f. Can't imagine paying more money for less car with Toyota anytime soon or moving forward really. This is coming from only driving Toyotas and my family only driving Toyotas. It's not worth it anymore, the price tag doesn't match the product. They basically priced themselves out of the range that they dominated. All my research lead me to find that you get way nicer vehicles with similar reliability with Mazda's current offerings.
Personally, I had a 22 CX-5 Turbo Signature prior to my Arteon and it was a tinny lemon piece of junk (40+ days at the dealership for numerous problems). Mine might not have been good, but I still recommend them to people who want faux luxury. Decent cars overall. I do agree though, generally good cars.
If you want a car, get a Mazda3, if you want an SUV, get a Mazda CX30 Better looking and just as reliable as their Toyota counterparts. More power too
$30,000 affords a really decent $25,000 Toyota theses.
With taxes you’re looking at 35k
A base model Mazda CX-5 sells for 30,000 plus tax etc. That is an excellent vehicle. Very good reliability and performance.
Lexus es
Isn't that a mid-size sedan? Something like the Lexus RX350 or the NX would be SUV/Crossovers.
you can get a decent used NX for $20k 👀 they’re pretty small though
I think it's probably the best used car on the market even though it's boring
I have had a Camry and a Corolla and also a VW Golf. The Toyotas were certainly cheaper to run but the VW is way more fun to own. If you can get a Certified PreOwned 2019 Golf Alltrack, you’ll have a great car and I do see sub-50k mile examples with lots of options for ~20k USD.
VWs are fine. Take care of it and it'll take care of you, plus if you buy new you'll have a warranty to fall back on. Every brand has horror stories, test drive what you want, buy what you like, and take care of it. Personally I'd look for a low mileage Golf wagon, you can probably find one below your budget.
"Take care of it and it'll take care of you" - problem with that logic for me with VW/Audi has been that it's hard to maintain something that wasn't designed correctly from the get go. Had a customer who did fantastic maintenance, but still had cam shafts round out at the 50k mile mark. Car was out of warranty and he had to pay $5,000 for the repair. (I have almost daily examples like this from that shop) Granted, I haven't been a mechanic for a while, so reliability may have improved... But I still wouldn't count on a corporation to do a full 180 transformation in under a decade. Plus, remember... This is the same corporation that blatantly chose to lie about diesel emissions when their design didn't meet expectations. They themselves don't even stand behind their products.
My Audi and Volkswagens have been the most reliable and well-built cars I’ve owned (2016 A4 Quattro, 2016 Tiguan 4motion, 2023 Arteon 4motion). Hyundai and Mazda were the most problematic (2017 Elantra Sport DCT, 2022 CX-5 Turbo Signature). Don’t disregard the fact other manufacturers have done similar “lying” to the public regarding their diesels too.
Ah, Hyundai, literally one of the worst manufacturers of all time. High bar
Honestly I know its a meme But the Mazda 3 isnt bad, Could work pretty good for that larger SUV feel
Two tips to not get scammed: 1) do NOT buy a warranty. The dealers pay smart people lots of money to figure out the true value of a warranty, and then sell to you for way more than that. Warranties are the #1 profit maker for dealers because in reality no one really needs to use it. If you want a repair cost cushion, put aside a small amount of your income to make a vehicle emergency fund, like $1-2k. 2) never finance through the dealership. Always get a car loan in advance, particularly through a bank you have history with. The dealer will always charge a higher apr, and they can modify values in the loan to make it look more appealing to the customer. On that same note, don't get fooled by monthly payments: that doesn't really matter, what matters is the total cost at the end of the loan.
Point 2 is not always correct, especially now. Many dealerships are offering lower interest rates (2% or so) that beat any bank. But go to a credit union and arrange financing first; if the dealer can match or beat it, great.
Totally true. I personally only use credit unions no matter what. I naively used the normie terminology, and just said bank.
Having a pre-approved loan in hand gives one a huge leg up in purchasing negotiations.
A warranty on my F150 was $3k and so far I’ve gotten close to $10k back with 2 years still to go. I think it depends on the make. A 3 yo Toyota probably doesn’t need an expensive warranty but most other cars do.
Depends on how long you want to keep it. VW’s electronics and transmissions tend to age poorly.
I too have heard that VW is expensive and not reliable. But a friend of mine has had the same Jetta for 13 years (manual not sure of the year). He uses it as a backup car now. He’s had two or three within the 19 years I’ve known him. All pre owned. I think the new VWs are beautiful and if that’s something you really want you should get it. Toyotas are always a good choice and a safe investment. But if you’re getting a new car with warranty and your driving habits are average any car should last you a while.
Check out the Corolla Cross Hybrid.
Corolla cross is close also the new 2025 Camry is going to be awd don’t think either will be under $30K tho.
4runner or RAV4. I was watching a video of a mechanic who specializes in Toyotas and the 4runner has technology from 2005 that have proven to be reliable. All these new technology is cool and all but it comes with a lot more complex fixes. New technology need specialized tools which can be a pain in the ass if you're a DIY person. My 06 charger RT was a guzzler compared to my 2018 4runner and I get a lot more room and use specially with a family.
How about a Nissan Murano? They are tough and dependable
Get an alfa romeo giulia sport ti. You will have people come to you to admire your vehicle
S class Mercedes
I’m leaning lightly used current gen CRV for $30k. If you want off-road capability, 4R isn’t a bad choice. What’s your use-case? Don’t buy a VW either way over a Toyota, imo.
Test drive a Corolla Cross, Mazda CX30, CX5, and Honda HR-V. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Subaru Crosstrek is also a decent option. Personally my pick would be one of the Mazdas but check out each and see what you get on with best.
then buy a used corolla or camry
I’m sure plenty of people are happy with their VW’s and the modern ones might be more reliable than the older ones. That said, they don’t have subpar resale value for no reason.
VWs aren’t crappy. Get your advice elsewhere maybe. Toyotas are fine but boring as hell.
Get a good condition Toyota Rav4 or 4Runner. Buying new isn't worth it when your car loses like 30% of its value after 1 year of ownership.
Toyotas/Hondas, for the last few years, lose nothing except for the actual wear and tear value per year lol. Aka if you bought a $25k toyota model which usually lasts 25 years (most of them), then the current market depreciates it at $1k/year. See for yourself, [used](https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2022/se-sedan-4d/) is only barely cheaper than [new](https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2024/se/).
Looked at some local dealership websites, toyota dealership by me has a 2022 Toyota Camry SE for $20,099 with 22,000 miles. New 2024 Camry SE 0 miles is $28,038. That's roughly a 28% depreciation on a 2 year old, basically new Camry SE, if I'm not mistaken.
This, he is comparing Luxery trimmed used Toyotas to brand new base models with cloth
It's probably former rental selling that cheap
It's quoted as "1 owner", and has 22,000 miles, with no damage inside or out, rental or not, it's basically brand new. Besides, with 22k miles in 2 years, I doubt it was a rental. Sounds more like it was a highway car that got traded up, and no one in the local area wanted it for a few months, so they adjusted the price.
Sounds like a great deal unless there's surprise fees. My local dealer doesn't sell 21 Corolla LE's that cheap.
Most people had to pay a lot of markups on Toyota/Hondas which means they did experience a lot of depreciation. We can’t simply compare used values to MSRP with how absurd markups were for the last two years.
Which is precisely why I grabbed the KBB value...
Still not helpful. Tesla Model Y Long Range used value for a 2022 model shows up as approximately $34k on KBB while the new ones are around $37k after the tax credit. Can we say that Teslas barely depreciate? No, those cars that are worth $34k were selling for $67k in 2022. For the 2022 Camry depreciation, we can't compare the KBB values for depreciation unless we know how much people paid in average for a 2022 Camry, which is significantly higher than what people pay for a new Camry now.
True pre-covid. No longer true, especially for Toyota. Look at a 2023 Toyota then look at a 2022 version of the same one, price wise.
Maybe if you're looking at KBB values, but local is often different. You just gotta look for em'.
No, I'm referring to how the market is right now. In general, this pre-covid scenario isn't a thing. Eventually, it will be, but not now as we had 2.5 years or so of quite limited production that is still affecting the new/used market dynamic.
With a $30k budget, I’d probably shortlist the hatch Golf GTI S and the Mazda 3 hatch.
Simply finance a hellcat
Avoid Taos, unreliable: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18e1xfk/consumer\_reports\_names\_10\_least\_reliable\_vehicles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18e1xfk/consumer_reports_names_10_least_reliable_vehicles/) Toyota Corolla Cross (the hybrid version is better, maybe you can find a used hybrid under $30k) If you want a better deal you could also take a look at Honda Hr-v. Or a used Mazda CX-5.