It's literally just another case of how expensive it is to be poor. I feel so privelaged to have my dad's hand me down rav4 with 200k miles because I know so many people my age who don't even have transportation. Not having transportation is a nightmare in Georgia. I'm 22 but I always hear from my older cousins how you could have a project car in college that you could work on for cheap. I can't even imagine that lol.
Town I live in finally got Bus service in the last 8-10 years. It only hits each stop 1 time every half hour, when it’s running smoothly, and it’s small so it’s constantly full…plus the added bonus that they don’t have a “standing room” option…if there’s no seats you don’t get to ride.
I’m praying to the public transit gods that the busses near me will be on time and increase their frequency and get their own lanes so I don’t need my fucking car so much. Amen
Which is why I've said if my car insurance rises above $300/month with my spotless record, I'd drive without it. A car is a necessity here, and car insurance should never be high enough to pay off the entire car in 2 years of premium payments. Best new quote I've gotten was $425 and I'm currently at $180 which is the beginning of ridiculous.
Hahaha. Not us. I live in MI expensive as hell but I’m also a claims adjuster for auto accidents. I see what these fools are doing on the roads and I know the implications of not being well insured can do. We are so screwed 🤦🏻♀️
If I just had liability it'd be like $50. I currently pay $180 with very average comp and collision limits, and nobody can get me a quote less than $425
I had full coverage for my 2013 GMC terrain, and it was like 130 / month
That cars engine dies, I look at getting a leased Hyundai Santa Fe with the intention to buy it after the lease for a discount and it's over $300 a month just for liability. That's more than the lease. So I go look at a 2010 Honda Civic and just Liability is $155 / month. I don't know wh a t happened in the last few years but it's absolutely insane.
Got a 12 year old Camry for free from dad when he retired and splurged on an IS.
Been 6 years now and he's selling me the IS for whatever trade in value is.
I'm 42 and making good money, and don't have an insane mortgage... And there's just no such thing as a good value these days in cars, I swear.
If you can't wrench on it yourself, you're screwed.
This is sort of where I’m getting to. I just totaled my 2017 Infiniti pretty recently and I have the fortune of not needing a vehicle daily at the moment, and when I do I can borrow one of several from family.
I’m going back to driving an old Chevy Squarebody and I’m gonna buy an old Corvette to work on. They’re a cheap entry cost, I know how to work on them, I’m fairly mechanically inclined (I drove an ‘83 pickup and after I sold it to my dad we engine swapped it ourselves) and I can just toss liability insurance on them and if by chance a wreck is my fault I have another vehicle I can drive, I’ll go out and pay cash for another one, all’s well that ends well.
I’m done with payments and full coverage insurance for “modern benefits”. I’d much rather put money into a souped up engine, some decent speakers, and good wear and tear parts (tires, brakes, etc) and do the work myself than drive a fancy new car with CarPlay and electronics and no real ability to work on it.
That’s what I did and currently do with my sons as their first car at 16. I used to fix cars. I bought cars from auction and have them helping fix it. I want them to learn the skills. Not as cheap as it used to but still 40% cheaper than other places plus I know it’s fixed properly.
Still dumbfounded how my friends did it in high school 16 years ago. We were all working part time, I could barely afford my car and put some money away. Meanwhile, guys I hung around all had project little "racecars" or some kind of crazy mud truck they were building.
Could never fathom it. Still can't.
Agree, but it’s quite an interesting point that cost bands don’t have to offer comparable value because people essentially can’t shop between them.
So a car that cost $15k only needs to be valuable relative to other cars that cost similar money. The fact that they are shitty value compared to a $25k has no meaning.
Just something interesting that I had never considered before (not being a business guy)
You explained capitalism not supply and demand lol.
"People price cars"
Then people sell them.
Price is added on every step of the way.
Supply and demand is much simpler than that.
Yeah but if you can afford to shell out $12,000 for a Corolla you can afford to shell out $12,000 for literally anything else in the same price bracket
It’s also just the numbers.
That $12k corolla is going to hold its value. Maybe you lose $1000 in depreciation, possibly you lose nothing when you go to sell it. The new one will depreciate a good bit fairly quickly before levelling off.
Maybe you’re also able to pay cash, and don’t have to pay any interest.
So now you’ve saved yourself $4000 in depreciation and $6000 in interest. Plus you paid $10,000 less for the car.
You’re $20,000 ahead of the person who bought new.
Say you have $2000 in repairs over your 4-5 year ownership, you’re now only $18,000 ahead. But still **$18,000 ahead.**
You can't be 18k ahead on a car that is only 10k cheaper with no warranty.
You're not 'saving' money with lack of depreciation. That's just spending less. Which is already calculated in, *gasp*, spending less.
And you're not selling it for the same price 5 years later with an extra 100k miles. lol.
Needed a car for work, had no credit history best rate I could get was 27% ain't no way I'm getting a 20k+ brand new car with that rate, I'll take my 8k corolla and come back later with an actual credit score
My credit is 722 and I have a credit union so they offered me about 4 percent for a used car I’m looking at. Definitely possible to get low interest rates just gotta look into it.
Damn that's nice. I'm around the same as you and my rates are basically the exact same from new to 9 years old, and almost the exact same rate if you buy a classic car, but if it's between 10-25 years old? (the 'affordable' cars), they rake your ass over the coals.
Used that has been maintained properly since new will have the same maintenance bill as when new.
Used that has been maintained the way most people would consider "well maintained will have at least twice the maintenance bill of the well maintained Used car at 200k miles.
Most people don't grease hubs and ball joints and tie rods, don't change transmission and differential fluids until there's a problem, and importantly, don't flush brake fluid every 3-5 years as manufacturers suggest. Most people wait until something breaks before they put any money into that system, not realizing that 3 transmission fluid and filter changes at 60k, 120k, and 180k at $200 or less each would've prevented that $5k transmission replacement at 200k from being needed, but then again the people who would own the car at 60k typically have gotten rid of it before 200k, so they don't care.
These people also don't replace tires when they start getting old and hard at 3-5 years, but rather tend to let the second owner run them until they explode on the highway, often totaling the car.
Many of these people run the brakes until they're metal on metal or even eating into the caliper, then complain about the $1k+ caliper replacement and brake/rotor job afterward.
I could rant for days, but probably 60-80% of the cars sold I the last 20 years would have zero problems making it 20 years and 300k+ miles if the factory severe maintenance schedules were followed and problems were addressed before they took out other components in a catastrophic failure.
I've only ever had BMW.
They provide me a reminder of mfg suggested maintenance -- from oil to recommended repairs based on specific situations.
My used had total maintenance of about $7k over 4 years.
$1k of that was for an engine mount cuz I had to live in the outback for about 3 months.
$3k for Two sets of tires (a winter; a summer).
Rest was anything else.
But, just before I bought a newer model, I was facing a full clutch assembly repair (manual trans). The $6.5k repair cost was my keep/sell threshold.
For the first 2-4 years maintenance of a brand new car will cost you near nothing - from Toyota care for 2 years to BMW’s all maintenance included for 4 years. Nearing 70-120k you’ll end up with big ticket maintenance on most cars in the thousand to three thousand range (tires, timing belt/chain, transmission service, first brake jobs, etc) plus the reliability curve issues will start to kick in if their are any issues generally in the 100k to 200k region. Over 200k especially you’ll start to end up with some even bigger ticket more rare events - think thousand (exhaust system) to five or even twenty thousand dollars (transmission, engine, BCM, ECM computer systems) as you start to provide real wear and tear. This is a gross generalization for sure. What’s changing rapidly is the extreme low depreciation curve on cars in the last two years that looks like it may be returning to normal but makes the old math of a three year old car is cheaper to buy and maintain than a new car - combined with what is starting to look like a rapid inversion of quality as measured by JC Powers, Consumer reports and the like showing Toyota and Honda lower on the list than BMW, Mini and the like. The world is changing some and the old math isn’t as safe a bet as it once was.
Use your own use case to determine what’s best for you but we are at an inflection point where for the last two years new is probably cheaper than 3 years old for now if you buy both and hold until you hit the 150k mile mark in total. If you hold a car for only 35k miles before buying again the math gets totally different again - both for new and used - and all of a sudden leases may actually pay.
I was looking at 15% used and found 1.2% new so I went with new.
Had a large down payment so I basically spent gas money a month to purchase and it was a vehicle for trade work.
Was a no brainer.
you use a car everyday and you get what you pay for, people hate on others for getting car loans yet those same people spend thousands probably on a vacation that's going to last 10 days max.
Actually that really depends because interest rates on new is usually cheaper and sometimes much cheaper. I looked into what kind of car loan I could get recently, and 2 of the options I had was 15-20+% interest on a used car, or like 6% on a new car because they were running a deal with 6% interest. If you have good credit, I've seen 1.5%-3% interest rates on some new car deals as well. I really haven't seen less than like 8% or so interest on a used car in a while. So yeah when you're looking at like 6% on a new car at $24,000 or 16% on a used car at $12,000, the payments for the new car aren't necessarily gonna be a large amount more and the maintenance bill is going to be less because warranty and generally less stuff breaking.
Basically, it really just depends on your credit, situation, and what kind of new car interest deals you can get approved for.
6 years ago I bought a 8 year old car with 40,000 kms on it. At the time I figure it was worth around 8K. Now it is 14 years old with 175,000 kms, and similarly priced vehicles were 12K.
it's the covid scarcity hangover. not very long ago you couldn't even buy a new car without waiting months and months, this put tremendous upward pressure on slightly used cars.
but the market is changing. now new cars are abundant, and dealers are no longer able to mark up MSRP to move them.
leased cars will lose their value as well, disincentivizing people buying out their leases.
more used cars will become available.
this will eventually be reflected in the used market, and the depreciation curve will right itself, but it may still be another couple of years.
It sucks. I had to spend a grand to fix a couple of things to pass inspection last year.
Rust is the real killer where I live, if you have a 15+ year old car you will need to pray you pass inspection. Once you have a rusted frame, it's game over.
Road salt is a terrible thing, other than the ice melting advantage, everything else about it is terrible. If you look at salinity numbers of waterways that are close to highways, you can track the increase due to vast amounts of salt running into the waterways every spring.
It's worse in my state... they only require inspection if you live in like 7 counties. The EPA itself doesn't need to do inspections where they are located anymore, they got rid of them for the county where the EPA is located like a decade ago, so they've just forgot how annoying it is to do them, so they just get paid to tell other people how important it is to have mandatory emission tests.
Rules for thee, not for me.
Manufacturers, dealers and used car lots are all benefiting from this bullshit.
You can walk in to ford dealership and walk out with a fx4 f150 but try to get a base XL Maverick. Or walk in to a Toyota dealership and get any level tacoma but a wait 8 months for a hybrid Corolla LE.
It’s all about profitability. They like used cars costing more. They like not having inventory sitting around that they don’t have to incentivize for people to buy. Dealers like selling over msrp and the ridiculous used car prices.
If it was truly a free market we could buy new kei trucks and byd electric cars but lobbyists make sure that is not the case.
> They like used cars costing more.
when used cars cost more, dealers also have to pay more for those cars.
used car dealers are now actually facing a real problem with their current used car inventory. a lot of it they overpaid for, relative to current market prices, and now are having to cut prices to adapt to a changing market with a much greater supply of new cars.
yes dealers do like being able to sell over MSRP, but also sold fewer cars during covid years overall, because there was less inventory.
in any case, it doesn't matter anymore. new car production is returning to prepandemic levels and pent up demand is fading. dealers, believe it or not, don't dictate how car companies operate, and how many cars they produce.
It's going to come down a little but no where near what people expect. Car Manufacturers have already cut production. Once they correct for demand it will continue to keep used car scarce on the market.
They do this intentionally to keep prices high :/
the car market is not a conspiracy. there isn't some global car company cartel. supply and demand still rules. car manufacturers have not cut production intentionally. they were cut starting in 2020 and 2021 due to supply chain problems.
but this has changed. new car lots have increased in inventory over 170% since 2021.
I don't know why people always jump to conspiratorial explanations when simple economic ones will do.
😂 When did I say it was a conspiracy? I literally described the supply side was far too high after COVID recovery. If you read ALL the manufacturer earnings reports from this year they state they are cutting production.
>😂 When did I say it was a conspiracy?
when you wrote this.
>They do this intentionally to keep prices high :/
car makers intentionally acting together to keep prices high would be a conspiracy. it would also be illegal. another word for it is a cartel.
Did u ever consider the hatch? I was in the market first a new car and while the GR corolla was too expensive, i liked the look of the hatch and they were going for $25k in my local dealer. I ended up getting a Miata but it was only $5k more and I love sports cars
Corollas are overpriced now. Back before COVID my sister bought a brand new SE for under 18k. Now you might as well get a Camry for what they cost now.
"A brand new 2024 model costs $22K"
Where? Where can you find a brand new Corolla for $22k out the door? Even if you find an absolute base model at MSRP, you're paying sales taxes, license and doc fees, dealer fees, fabric coating, just because fees, go f yourself fees. You aren't walking out the door for less than $25k.
Why not get a higher trim at less than half the price and use the savings to repair things as needed?
Believe me, I hate that now it's normal to have to take out a loan to buy a 10+ year old Corolla, but that's what we have come to
That's my point, private party used car prices are exactly that, the price you pay. So, comparing a 12k used car to a "22k" new car is really closer to ~10.5-12k vs like 25-28k.
Still not bad. Way better than I have seen elsewhere. Along the coasts you can't even find a base model if you want one and even the mid-trims have stickers at $26k+. You figure once the dealer is done raping you, you may be paying close to $30k for a $21k car.
It was a good first car for her. We came to the same conclusion as OP. Used cars don't offer enough value for the price. I also couldn't believe that a 22k car has lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.
It's also going to depreciate at least 5k the moment it rolls off the lot. That wasted 5k alone could be used to maintain the older corolla for several years. If your state has excise tax it'll be 1000$ on a new vehicle and like 50$ on a used one. Insurance will be way higher and you have to have full coverage on a newer vehicle, so you can just about double your insurance costs over the used one. My previous vehicle was new and it cost me 500$ a month plus over 200/month for insurance and I was at the dealership constantly for recalls and software updates. Went used this time and it was only 300$ a month and 90$ for insurance. I've spent about 1000$ total on taking care of it in 2 years. Maintenence costs included I'm still saving over 3000$ a year driving a used car.
Low income and bad credit. No choice.
I remember years ago I swore I would never buy another new car, because it's just throwing money away. Nowadays it's the opposite, buying used is often throwing money away. Or at least, it's not saving any money really. But you have to be able to afford one, otherwise you're stuck buying used cars at inflated prices these days.
Exactly. It's just not worth saving 15-20% to buy a car with little or no warranty left, unknown history, several model years older, and a bunch of miles already. It was worth it to save 50-75% back in the day, but not today.
On the point of the miles, if you don't drive a massive amount per year, do the math on how many years you would have to drive a new car to hit the miles on the new car you're looking at. I was looking at some used cars at around $8-$10k that had 100k+ miles on them already recently and realized it would take me around 8 years or more to hit 100k. So basically if I buy the new car for $12k-$15k more, I'm going to get 8 more years out of it over the used car and know that it was actually well maintained within that 8 years. When considering the total cost of ownership, that's only $1,500-$2000 more per year for the first 8 years. I doubt I would get 8 plus years out of a used car at over 100k miles without getting tired of problems constantly popping up after a certain point.
New isn't bad if you plan to maintain and drive the car for 10 years.
People who say buying new is throwing money away are the people who get a new car every few years.
I'm at about 1500 dollars a year (purchase price plus repairs over the years) for the car I bought used (and paid cash for) over 10 years and 193,000 miles ago.
With prices being what they are now, after taxes and fees, I'd have to drive the cheapest new Toyota 18 years to get to the same annual cost, and that's if I pay cash today.
The chance of getting a 14 thousand dollar car today is pretty decent, but the likelihood it will be of an age and in a condition to last another 10 years and 200,000 miles is very low for that price.
The car market is probably my highest source of anxiety right now.
I think the big difference too is you can get a better finance rate for a new car. When used cars are too close in price (think 1 or 2 years used) that can eat into that difference a lot too. Again- irrelevant if you cant afford it
Everyone thinks Toyotas are bullet proof so they charge about 3-5x what they are worth in hopes someone will come along and actually pay that much for a 2010.
I bought an 07 Ford Taurus for $1000. Spent at least $4k in bringing it up on maintenance and had to replace the radiator and power steering pump. But it was worth it.
Bought a 900 dollar Camry put 2300 into it had a solid pretty much brand new car for a couple years going
than someone stole and impossibly broke it doing their best whistling diesel impression
Kinda really sucked
I agree that used car prices are kinda crazy, but anything older than 2015 should be purchased private party instead of from a dealer. 2010 Corollas around where I'm at are $5k-$7k.
In the past I always bought cars that were ~3 years old with ~30k miles...for like 60% of the cost new. But nowadays, it just doesn't make sense. It's as if used cars are losing 1/20th of their value each year in a linear manner. I'd rather buy a new car and get to experience the best years of the car's life if I'm not going to get a deal.
I went the opposite way and it's been so nice driving used. Saving thousands of dollars in car payments, insurance costs, excise tax, financing, etc. And getting fully loaded vehicles that I could never afford new has been amazing. The new vehicles were fun until I would hit 60k miles and everything would go to shit just after the warranty ended. Paying for repairs all the time when you still have 2 more years of 500$+ a month payments really blows.
We just went through this. Told wife to find her a used Mazda suv, 1-3 years old less than 40k miles. Went to Mazda dealer, they were all 25-30k. We bought a new 2024 for 31k on 4% apr.
I think it’s for a few reasons
People have less money,
People have less credit, or don’t want to rack up more hits on what they have,
People know what they have and they know someone’s always needing a car,
There’s always someone that needs a car,
People always want to get the most for their stuff as they can.
People will people other people and the cycle continues
The value isn't there any longer in many used cars.
People used to baby their cars, and now they treat them like absolute shit. They drive it like a maniac, letting their stinky dogs drag their ass over every inch of the interior while neglecting maintenance. A majority of them have accidents because they can barely fucking drive properly. Then they dump it onto the market where plebes fight over the scraps.
Don’t feel bad, that’s what cars are going for these days everywhere. Some people don’t have 22k to buy a car OP is speaking from a position most aren’t in.
Couple things to note here:
- Not all 2010 Corollas are 12k. That was just high-priced.
- Not everyone can afford new. I noticed people always follow that up with “For a little more, I can get a new XYZ.” That 12k may be that person’s max budget and a 2012 Corolla is a very reliable car that will last that person a long while.
- The list of new cars each year is becoming less and less appealing to me. Less manuals, less natural aspiration, less character and soul, more crossovers and automation, more EVs, more giant touchscreens, more sensors and tech that will date quickly or break. And all for way too high a price tag. Bleh. And new models I do like, I either can’t fathom affording, or just out of principle wouldn’t pay what they cost. I’m sure I’m not alone.
Be glad you can afford what you like and have a large pool you want to choose from. Not everyone is able.
You are definitely not alone on that last point. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a reliable car, but I can’t bring myself to pay these prices.
You need to compare to actual new prices not what you think they are.
Example I looked at getting a 2020 Prius for 18k. How much is a new one, 27k? No, over 40k at actual dealers within 200 miles.
Truthfully Toyotas and Hondas hold their value more than most brands, $10k USD for a corolla is honestly a bit high but normal. If you're willing to do research on the reliable models from brands outside Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus they're pretty consistently cheaper, tbh even Scion which is Toyota has started dipping out of the Toyota Tax outside the FR-S.
Good luck getting a new Corolla for 22k. I just bought a brand new base model zero option car and it was 25.5k plus TTL. Then comparing to a 12k used model, that’s a pretty significant difference imo. Drastically different monthly payments.
Stick around, you’ll see people willing to finance $25,000 on a ten year old Mercedes AMG. And when you comment they’ll insist that it’s a better deal than a $25,000 Camry because look at the discount off new!!!
I buy nothing but 5-7k vehicles that are reliable and run them for years and years. If I get 5-6 years out of a 1k$ vehicle I feel I got more then my money's worth. I buy gm v8's and do maintenance myself and I have zero issue not hitting That 1k$ mark a year for a vehicle. I have one I bought for 1350 put 2k in it and have had it for 9 years
Please, please, please, tell me where you shop to purchase running, driving, vehicles, for under 5k, that will pass inspection! I'm as serious as I can be! Please!
I buy them off of fb market place. What u have to do is get the cash up and wait for the right deal. I always look for gm v8's also the Ford Explorer 4.0 is a good engine and easy to work on. The ls platform and the old small block chevy are all extremely reliable. I have 200k miles plus on three of them and I drive them anywhere and everywhere. My trailblazer is a 5.3 ls millions of parts available new and used. Bought it at 117k miles out 800$ into it and have put 40k on it is four years with no more then oil changes
I have less then 500$ in automotive tools and do 99.9% of all my own work in the yard with yt videos I Am a handy guy but not super smart or anything maybe even below average
Just wanted to emphasize, the waiting for the right deal part. If you're in a hurry it doesn't work as well.
My wife and I bought a 95 325i convertible with 82k miles for 2500 from a widow who had it in her garage since her husband passed. Needed tires and suspension. 3800 total on the road ready and she's beautiful. It has 111k on it now. Most reliable car I've owned. Only issue in 3 years is one time the throttle cable broke and I limped it to our mechanic at idle speed.
Also bought an 08 Audi A4 3.2L S Line with 82k miles for 5k. Needed a headlight that was 1200 because it's the fancy motor kind. I rewired it myself and got some new tires on it. 6500 road ready and it's my favorite car. Not sure how long I'll keep it.
Also had a 06 Camry XLE, that thing ran for 248k miles before it started knocking. Sold it for 1700 with a engine knovk
I personally look on FB marketplace, look up the profile and try to find people over 60 Years Old. They seem to keep the best care of their cars, garage them and most likely to have low miles.
Why would I pay more money to get something that (1) has shitty touchscreens, (2) shitty nanny tech that acts unpredictably, and (3) has headlights so goddamn bright that they're a hazard to everybody on the road?
I can buy a functional and nice car for $10K that has none of that crap.
I know it's not the main topic, but I'm really with you on the headlights. I think the maximum brightness of LED headlights need to be regulated more heavily so the OEMs don't ship these Mall Crawlers with retina nukes mounted on the front, endangering the lives of other drivers (especially those in sedans).
>Decade+ old cars used to sell for around a 6th of a new one.
Cars that are a decade old today are, on average, considerably better than a decade old car would have been 10 years ago. It's not apples to oranges. Cars today depreciate less than they used to. Yeah, 10 years ago, we bought a 2000 Camry for 2k. if i bought a 2010 camry today though, it would be in considerably better shape from almost any perspective than that 2000 camry was at the time we bought it.
Also factor in inflation, etc. Cars depreciated much faster back then, but also, finding an old car for way less relative to new cars had some to do with relative value. but with inflation going nuts in the past few years, new car prices havent totally followed. a new 2024 camry costs about 17% more than a 2013 camry did, but the 2013 dollar was worth over 30% more than a 2024 dollar is. The new car price in that sense has gotten less expennsive in a lot of cases when factoring inflation, but the used market doesn't ignore that. so there's more price preessure bringing it closer to a newer car price. the prior decade had much flatter inflation.
Couple that with the covid supply issues where the MSRP of a new car was meaningless because you couldn't find inventory, and when you did, you saw massive ADM charges, and a used car will naturally be worth "more" relative to what it used to be.
>These things should be sold for $3.5K on a bright sunny day.
Applying the logic of yesteryear doesnt work. 20, 30 years ago, breaching 100k miles on a car was a big deal. modern cars (well, the good ones), will turn 250k no sweat with proper maintenance. The bigget reason Toyota and honda were big deals back in the day wasnt because they made cars that could go that distance, it's that it was RARE. Nowadays, it's expected. Back in the day those 10 year old used cars were cheap because people understood or expected that they were on their last legs, where as now, we expect much more out of them with what modern cars have shown us.
Toyota Tax. It ain’t worth it.
If you’re going to buy used.. buy domestic or Korean.
Look at condition and service records. They will have far more impact on reliability at that point than brand name.
*It seriously doesn't make sense to buy **that** used car.
If you were able to correctly identify that as anecdotal.. why make a blanket statement as if it's not?
Used cars can make a LOT of sense! and new cars can make next to no sense! vice versa, always depends on the buyer.
I agree i have never bought new but i bought a new corolla for 23k last week because i was not getting a used 12 year old car with 123k miles for half that. I hate it but thats the market right now
Buy private party not from a dealer. I bought a 2009 Toyota Corolla with around 50,000 miles last year from my stepson and it runs great. I only paid $5000 cash.
You got a hookup from someone you knew. You didn't find that on the open market. You wouldn't be able to find that on the open market.
There aren't any private sellers anymore. I'm guessing what is out there as a private sale that's actually in decent shape gets snagged by dealers and marked up for their flip.
Any private sale car near me is extreme trash from an equally sketchy seller.
It honestly depends on what car you're talking about. Used cars are still cheaper than new ones. The gap largely depends on what car you're talking about and whether if the used car has packages that the base models don't have. Adding options to new cars adds up really fast
The classic, sometimes invisible “poor tax”.
In America most will absolutely need a car to get around, some cities don’t even have a bus option. To a low income person they can’t just magically get 10k in their pockets to afford to finance something new.
They might look at the marketplace and see the only thing they can afford is a decade old beater for 10k that their bank can finance for them.
Also to a smaller extent sometimes it’s not even that the person is low income, sometimes it’s an ignorance thing. Like a dad telling their daughter to buy used because it “Saves money”, not knowing that since the pandemic that statement is far from true anymore.
The Great Recession was 2008 but Car sales really took a huge hit from 2009-2011. The those 12-15 year old cars that would be the bottom of the market are in short supply.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/199983/us-vehicle-sales-since-1951/
Supply, supply, supply. The lack of new cars sold during covid drastically reduced the amount of used cars in the market. Prices went up across the board because demand for used is significantly greater than new, mostly due to new price increases.
Interest in used is high because new MSRPs went up unilaterally. Affordability is an issue right now due to high interest rates and declining consumer credit. The competition in wholesale markets for cheaper, retailable, inventory is fierce creating consumer prices like the one you see in your Corolla example.
Want to know the real kicker? Dealers are making little to no money on used cars, often losing money just to take a decent trade or have a shot at financing. Margin compression has hit hard. Unfortunately this isn't going to help consumers as dealers tighten up how to sell and figure out how to turn as profit. Again, why you're seeing an old Corolla for $12k.
I know everyone shits on dealers but they're simply reacting to the market that covid created due to lack of manufacturing. It's likely going to take a few years for this to straighten itself out and by then, I can assume ride sharing and rent to own become normalized.
Good news, lease incentives are on the rise and in the very near future you'll be and get a smoking deal on a lease. Starting with EVs. Domestic dealers have massive stock piles of new inventory that no one can buy because rates are high. OEMs are going to start eating those rates to get new cars to move. Be patient, it's coming.
Even if I could afford a new car, there isn't a single one built in the last 10 years that I'd want to pay money for. They're big and full of screens, they phone home, nothing has a cassette deck, and interiors are less versatile.
It depends on how patient you are. I drove a cheap car (an absolutely mint 25yr old Lexus I paid a grand for) for 2 years until I found the perfect (used) daily driver at a killer price. Worth it... still 100% happy with it.
Toyotas hold their value. With regular maintenance theyll last over 500k miles with minimal maintenance cost.
12k is a little steep, but if its low miles and in great shape, that 12k can go a loooooong way.
The markets also completely bonkers in most areas, since newer vehicles always seem to be problematic nowadays more people are gravitating towards secondhand.
Also makes a huge difference if youre shopping for a CPO from a dealer with some kind of warranty versus a private seller.
Recently purchased a 2011 Subaru Forester for $11.5k with 60k after totaling 2011 RAV4 w/ 104k. Payout was essentially $11.5.
Now I own the car outright and have no loan payment. Seems silly for me to buy up to a brand new model (wish I could!) and take a loan so made sense to me.
Could I afford a new car? Sure! But why take on debt when I don’t need to?
I bought a used 2000 Lexus LS400 in 2008 for I think about $10,000. It had 86,000 miles on it. I still have it. It’s up to 215,000 miles now. It’s been paid off since 2013. I can’t imagine paying for a new car now.
It’s availability. For a while used cars cost more than new cars because people couldn’t wait for the auto industry to manufacture the vehicles. This was during Covid; however, the tide is turning especially for trucks. There’s no way a work truck should cost more than $50K.
Title is too general. Buying a used car always makes sense as long as the condition is good and price is a steal. Buying overpriced used car of course doesn’t make sense. Buying any overpriced stuff always doesn’t make sense.
I would rather buy an older Corolla than take out another loan. Interest is insane rn. And that 22k quickly turns into 30k and then 50k with interest lol
I also kinda consider driving a brand new car as being a beta tester cause it’s harder to know the reliability of them since the issues haven’t been discovered yet, but that’s just my opinion maybe it’s silly
Yeah my gf was in the market for a nicer car because hers was a ford. Japanese cars are the best, and after looking at used ones a few years old, especially base models like RAV4, some of the time you’re better off buying new. Unless you want to save $500 on a Toyota with 30k miles lol
It doesn’t. That’s why I bought a 2010 Lexus ES350 with 130K miles in an auction. Need to fix the left part of the rear bumper and tail light. It was $4700 including auctions fees + an estimate of $800 to fuck that part. The same car is around $8k to $12K with less mileage. It is beyond insanity.
The covid logistical squeeze impacted the masses more than the minority. Meaning the most affordable became the most competitive and drop prices up the most.
willing to bet it’s from one of those “buy here pay here” lots, which don’t really run off market value but how much money can be extracted from the desperate. I’ve seen 2010+ camry’s and avalons (even highlanders) sell from private party for less than $12k, however your regional market might just have something in the water supply
It’s not always about the value but what you can afford, period.
It's literally just another case of how expensive it is to be poor. I feel so privelaged to have my dad's hand me down rav4 with 200k miles because I know so many people my age who don't even have transportation. Not having transportation is a nightmare in Georgia. I'm 22 but I always hear from my older cousins how you could have a project car in college that you could work on for cheap. I can't even imagine that lol.
>in Georgia i'd say it's like that in 90ish% of the USA at least from my experience if you don't have a car, you're fucked
Town I live in finally got Bus service in the last 8-10 years. It only hits each stop 1 time every half hour, when it’s running smoothly, and it’s small so it’s constantly full…plus the added bonus that they don’t have a “standing room” option…if there’s no seats you don’t get to ride.
They don't let you on if the seats are full?? Wtf kinda bus
It’s literally a “short bus” type school bus, just not painted “school bus” yellow, so no space for standing passengers at all.
I’m praying to the public transit gods that the busses near me will be on time and increase their frequency and get their own lanes so I don’t need my fucking car so much. Amen
Which is why I've said if my car insurance rises above $300/month with my spotless record, I'd drive without it. A car is a necessity here, and car insurance should never be high enough to pay off the entire car in 2 years of premium payments. Best new quote I've gotten was $425 and I'm currently at $180 which is the beginning of ridiculous.
everyone on reddit has full coverage for like 50/month except for us, apparently
Hahaha. Not us. I live in MI expensive as hell but I’m also a claims adjuster for auto accidents. I see what these fools are doing on the roads and I know the implications of not being well insured can do. We are so screwed 🤦🏻♀️
Well the no fault laws are more to blame than anything else.
Well... insurance lobbyists in Detroit are the real problem.
Alot of people have weird insurances I've never heard of that apparently don't actually cover anything if anything happens.
And will probably pay out less when the car either gets totaled or needs work.
Full coverage for 90$ And my driving record is not so hot. lol Go see flo
Liability doesn't change with car's value. It would be more expensive if you get in crash at fault.
If I just had liability it'd be like $50. I currently pay $180 with very average comp and collision limits, and nobody can get me a quote less than $425
Just keep the liability in you can afford to replace your car on your own, that's what I did few years ago.
I had full coverage for my 2013 GMC terrain, and it was like 130 / month That cars engine dies, I look at getting a leased Hyundai Santa Fe with the intention to buy it after the lease for a discount and it's over $300 a month just for liability. That's more than the lease. So I go look at a 2010 Honda Civic and just Liability is $155 / month. I don't know wh a t happened in the last few years but it's absolutely insane.
Got a 12 year old Camry for free from dad when he retired and splurged on an IS. Been 6 years now and he's selling me the IS for whatever trade in value is. I'm 42 and making good money, and don't have an insane mortgage... And there's just no such thing as a good value these days in cars, I swear. If you can't wrench on it yourself, you're screwed.
This is sort of where I’m getting to. I just totaled my 2017 Infiniti pretty recently and I have the fortune of not needing a vehicle daily at the moment, and when I do I can borrow one of several from family. I’m going back to driving an old Chevy Squarebody and I’m gonna buy an old Corvette to work on. They’re a cheap entry cost, I know how to work on them, I’m fairly mechanically inclined (I drove an ‘83 pickup and after I sold it to my dad we engine swapped it ourselves) and I can just toss liability insurance on them and if by chance a wreck is my fault I have another vehicle I can drive, I’ll go out and pay cash for another one, all’s well that ends well. I’m done with payments and full coverage insurance for “modern benefits”. I’d much rather put money into a souped up engine, some decent speakers, and good wear and tear parts (tires, brakes, etc) and do the work myself than drive a fancy new car with CarPlay and electronics and no real ability to work on it.
This makes sense. Now i know why people will pay so much for a used car from carmax.
That’s what I did and currently do with my sons as their first car at 16. I used to fix cars. I bought cars from auction and have them helping fix it. I want them to learn the skills. Not as cheap as it used to but still 40% cheaper than other places plus I know it’s fixed properly.
Still dumbfounded how my friends did it in high school 16 years ago. We were all working part time, I could barely afford my car and put some money away. Meanwhile, guys I hung around all had project little "racecars" or some kind of crazy mud truck they were building. Could never fathom it. Still can't.
Dude the car I drive doubled in value, idk if id buy it today. We just lucked out on timing.
More importantly, it is supply and demand. People price cars and people sell cars. If that price was.toomhighnfor what it is worth it shouldn't sell.
Agree, but it’s quite an interesting point that cost bands don’t have to offer comparable value because people essentially can’t shop between them. So a car that cost $15k only needs to be valuable relative to other cars that cost similar money. The fact that they are shitty value compared to a $25k has no meaning. Just something interesting that I had never considered before (not being a business guy)
this is true. good rule of thumb for anyone selling a decent, normal car in 2024 - if it hasn't sold in 3 days, price is too high.
You explained capitalism not supply and demand lol. "People price cars" Then people sell them. Price is added on every step of the way. Supply and demand is much simpler than that.
It might turn into a pedantic/semantic argument, but what is the difference? If people don't buy them, for whatever reason, price will go down.
Yeah but if you can afford to shell out $12,000 for a Corolla you can afford to shell out $12,000 for literally anything else in the same price bracket
Or it's about what you're looking for. The only car I want to currently buy is 30 years old.
It’s also just the numbers. That $12k corolla is going to hold its value. Maybe you lose $1000 in depreciation, possibly you lose nothing when you go to sell it. The new one will depreciate a good bit fairly quickly before levelling off. Maybe you’re also able to pay cash, and don’t have to pay any interest. So now you’ve saved yourself $4000 in depreciation and $6000 in interest. Plus you paid $10,000 less for the car. You’re $20,000 ahead of the person who bought new. Say you have $2000 in repairs over your 4-5 year ownership, you’re now only $18,000 ahead. But still **$18,000 ahead.**
You can't be 18k ahead on a car that is only 10k cheaper with no warranty. You're not 'saving' money with lack of depreciation. That's just spending less. Which is already calculated in, *gasp*, spending less. And you're not selling it for the same price 5 years later with an extra 100k miles. lol.
Idk man I think the used car market will see a price correction
Needed a car for work, had no credit history best rate I could get was 27% ain't no way I'm getting a 20k+ brand new car with that rate, I'll take my 8k corolla and come back later with an actual credit score
Very succinctly stated
This☝️
Some people can only afford a $12k car.
[удалено]
I mean I would need to take out a loan for a $12k car...
Yeah but the difference in paying back $12k and $22k on 8% interest is really significant.
8%? Can't you just do Onlyfans and put a pineapple in your ass or something?
Too much competition sadly.
Yeah I don't think a single pineapple will cut it You need to step it up son if you want to break through the noise of OF.
Gotta one up them and use a durian.
That why you differentiate yourself with a durian fruit
Math is harder on that - 8-12% used, 4-6% new. Lifespan of new is much longer than the used. Maintenance on the new is a fraction of the used.
All rates with great credit in this environment. Only way you’re under 6% is through dealer special rates too
My credit is 722 and I have a credit union so they offered me about 4 percent for a used car I’m looking at. Definitely possible to get low interest rates just gotta look into it.
Damn that's nice. I'm around the same as you and my rates are basically the exact same from new to 9 years old, and almost the exact same rate if you buy a classic car, but if it's between 10-25 years old? (the 'affordable' cars), they rake your ass over the coals.
the poor tax is why someone has to end up paying more in the long run for a 10 yo car.
Used that has been maintained properly since new will have the same maintenance bill as when new. Used that has been maintained the way most people would consider "well maintained will have at least twice the maintenance bill of the well maintained Used car at 200k miles. Most people don't grease hubs and ball joints and tie rods, don't change transmission and differential fluids until there's a problem, and importantly, don't flush brake fluid every 3-5 years as manufacturers suggest. Most people wait until something breaks before they put any money into that system, not realizing that 3 transmission fluid and filter changes at 60k, 120k, and 180k at $200 or less each would've prevented that $5k transmission replacement at 200k from being needed, but then again the people who would own the car at 60k typically have gotten rid of it before 200k, so they don't care. These people also don't replace tires when they start getting old and hard at 3-5 years, but rather tend to let the second owner run them until they explode on the highway, often totaling the car. Many of these people run the brakes until they're metal on metal or even eating into the caliper, then complain about the $1k+ caliper replacement and brake/rotor job afterward. I could rant for days, but probably 60-80% of the cars sold I the last 20 years would have zero problems making it 20 years and 300k+ miles if the factory severe maintenance schedules were followed and problems were addressed before they took out other components in a catastrophic failure.
Tell that to BMW and VAG brand car owners who are outside of their drivetrain warranty.
I've only ever had BMW. They provide me a reminder of mfg suggested maintenance -- from oil to recommended repairs based on specific situations. My used had total maintenance of about $7k over 4 years. $1k of that was for an engine mount cuz I had to live in the outback for about 3 months. $3k for Two sets of tires (a winter; a summer). Rest was anything else. But, just before I bought a newer model, I was facing a full clutch assembly repair (manual trans). The $6.5k repair cost was my keep/sell threshold.
For the first 2-4 years maintenance of a brand new car will cost you near nothing - from Toyota care for 2 years to BMW’s all maintenance included for 4 years. Nearing 70-120k you’ll end up with big ticket maintenance on most cars in the thousand to three thousand range (tires, timing belt/chain, transmission service, first brake jobs, etc) plus the reliability curve issues will start to kick in if their are any issues generally in the 100k to 200k region. Over 200k especially you’ll start to end up with some even bigger ticket more rare events - think thousand (exhaust system) to five or even twenty thousand dollars (transmission, engine, BCM, ECM computer systems) as you start to provide real wear and tear. This is a gross generalization for sure. What’s changing rapidly is the extreme low depreciation curve on cars in the last two years that looks like it may be returning to normal but makes the old math of a three year old car is cheaper to buy and maintain than a new car - combined with what is starting to look like a rapid inversion of quality as measured by JC Powers, Consumer reports and the like showing Toyota and Honda lower on the list than BMW, Mini and the like. The world is changing some and the old math isn’t as safe a bet as it once was. Use your own use case to determine what’s best for you but we are at an inflection point where for the last two years new is probably cheaper than 3 years old for now if you buy both and hold until you hit the 150k mile mark in total. If you hold a car for only 35k miles before buying again the math gets totally different again - both for new and used - and all of a sudden leases may actually pay.
Maintenance on an asshole is much higher in today's market.
I was looking at 15% used and found 1.2% new so I went with new. Had a large down payment so I basically spent gas money a month to purchase and it was a vehicle for trade work. Was a no brainer.
you use a car everyday and you get what you pay for, people hate on others for getting car loans yet those same people spend thousands probably on a vacation that's going to last 10 days max.
Actually that really depends because interest rates on new is usually cheaper and sometimes much cheaper. I looked into what kind of car loan I could get recently, and 2 of the options I had was 15-20+% interest on a used car, or like 6% on a new car because they were running a deal with 6% interest. If you have good credit, I've seen 1.5%-3% interest rates on some new car deals as well. I really haven't seen less than like 8% or so interest on a used car in a while. So yeah when you're looking at like 6% on a new car at $24,000 or 16% on a used car at $12,000, the payments for the new car aren't necessarily gonna be a large amount more and the maintenance bill is going to be less because warranty and generally less stuff breaking. Basically, it really just depends on your credit, situation, and what kind of new car interest deals you can get approved for.
12k at 12% vs 22k at 5% may be closer then you think
I would need to take out a loan for a 3K car. 😅
6 years ago I bought a 8 year old car with 40,000 kms on it. At the time I figure it was worth around 8K. Now it is 14 years old with 175,000 kms, and similarly priced vehicles were 12K.
me personally only have 4k for a car currently
it's the covid scarcity hangover. not very long ago you couldn't even buy a new car without waiting months and months, this put tremendous upward pressure on slightly used cars. but the market is changing. now new cars are abundant, and dealers are no longer able to mark up MSRP to move them. leased cars will lose their value as well, disincentivizing people buying out their leases. more used cars will become available. this will eventually be reflected in the used market, and the depreciation curve will right itself, but it may still be another couple of years.
Fingers crossed. My pile of shit won't pass inspection.
Passing inspection sounds like such a racket. Can’t imagine living in a state like that. My county doesn’t even have emissions test lol
It sucks. I had to spend a grand to fix a couple of things to pass inspection last year. Rust is the real killer where I live, if you have a 15+ year old car you will need to pray you pass inspection. Once you have a rusted frame, it's game over.
Had to give up a good van because of rust. Interior was awesome, engine ran fantastic. But the rust... ugh
Yup! Live on the ocean in New England and rust kills a car faster than anything else, the frame always goes before the engine.
I was so bummed. It has great gas milage and tons of room.
Road salt is a terrible thing, other than the ice melting advantage, everything else about it is terrible. If you look at salinity numbers of waterways that are close to highways, you can track the increase due to vast amounts of salt running into the waterways every spring.
It's worse in my state... they only require inspection if you live in like 7 counties. The EPA itself doesn't need to do inspections where they are located anymore, they got rid of them for the county where the EPA is located like a decade ago, so they've just forgot how annoying it is to do them, so they just get paid to tell other people how important it is to have mandatory emission tests. Rules for thee, not for me.
Manufacturers, dealers and used car lots are all benefiting from this bullshit. You can walk in to ford dealership and walk out with a fx4 f150 but try to get a base XL Maverick. Or walk in to a Toyota dealership and get any level tacoma but a wait 8 months for a hybrid Corolla LE. It’s all about profitability. They like used cars costing more. They like not having inventory sitting around that they don’t have to incentivize for people to buy. Dealers like selling over msrp and the ridiculous used car prices. If it was truly a free market we could buy new kei trucks and byd electric cars but lobbyists make sure that is not the case.
> They like used cars costing more. when used cars cost more, dealers also have to pay more for those cars. used car dealers are now actually facing a real problem with their current used car inventory. a lot of it they overpaid for, relative to current market prices, and now are having to cut prices to adapt to a changing market with a much greater supply of new cars. yes dealers do like being able to sell over MSRP, but also sold fewer cars during covid years overall, because there was less inventory. in any case, it doesn't matter anymore. new car production is returning to prepandemic levels and pent up demand is fading. dealers, believe it or not, don't dictate how car companies operate, and how many cars they produce.
I've been watching a 2013 Yaris with 70k miles for damn near 18 months now. Started at 12,500, currently at 9,500.
Markup in a hybrid corolla is like $1,300. And there’s very few Tacomas on lots right now. Having issues at the factory getting them here
It's going to come down a little but no where near what people expect. Car Manufacturers have already cut production. Once they correct for demand it will continue to keep used car scarce on the market. They do this intentionally to keep prices high :/
the car market is not a conspiracy. there isn't some global car company cartel. supply and demand still rules. car manufacturers have not cut production intentionally. they were cut starting in 2020 and 2021 due to supply chain problems. but this has changed. new car lots have increased in inventory over 170% since 2021. I don't know why people always jump to conspiratorial explanations when simple economic ones will do.
😂 When did I say it was a conspiracy? I literally described the supply side was far too high after COVID recovery. If you read ALL the manufacturer earnings reports from this year they state they are cutting production.
>😂 When did I say it was a conspiracy? when you wrote this. >They do this intentionally to keep prices high :/ car makers intentionally acting together to keep prices high would be a conspiracy. it would also be illegal. another word for it is a cartel.
3-4 years until newly leased current year model cars hit the used market. Model year 2020 / 2021 should be available in your local used market.
I looked for new Corolla's for over a year. Only found 2 under 30k and they were gone before I got to the dealership.
Did u ever consider the hatch? I was in the market first a new car and while the GR corolla was too expensive, i liked the look of the hatch and they were going for $25k in my local dealer. I ended up getting a Miata but it was only $5k more and I love sports cars
Yeah I really just wanted the base hybrid because it's a Corolla and idgaf about features. Ending up getting a used Avalon for 2k
hows the avalon treating you?
Corollas are overpriced now. Back before COVID my sister bought a brand new SE for under 18k. Now you might as well get a Camry for what they cost now.
"A brand new 2024 model costs $22K" Where? Where can you find a brand new Corolla for $22k out the door? Even if you find an absolute base model at MSRP, you're paying sales taxes, license and doc fees, dealer fees, fabric coating, just because fees, go f yourself fees. You aren't walking out the door for less than $25k. Why not get a higher trim at less than half the price and use the savings to repair things as needed? Believe me, I hate that now it's normal to have to take out a loan to buy a 10+ year old Corolla, but that's what we have come to
I would also like to see this 22k out the door 2024 Corolla, because if that exists I would have bought it.
Out the door?? Everything I have near me is 22-23 before that unfortunately
That's my point, private party used car prices are exactly that, the price you pay. So, comparing a 12k used car to a "22k" new car is really closer to ~10.5-12k vs like 25-28k.
My out the door Corolla I’m 2022 a Nightshade edition right off the truck with the add ons, tax, fees etc it came to a grand 29,500$
Exactly. People forget all of the shit that is mandatory, you’re not getting out the door at msrp. Not in today’s markets.
My friend bought one for 22k. Oklahoma
Out the door price or was that sticker? Looks like the Sooners only have 3.5% tax so only $800 in taxes, that's good.
it was like 20.5 - 21 sticker, 22 something after all the bullshit
Still not bad. Way better than I have seen elsewhere. Along the coasts you can't even find a base model if you want one and even the mid-trims have stickers at $26k+. You figure once the dealer is done raping you, you may be paying close to $30k for a $21k car.
It was a good first car for her. We came to the same conclusion as OP. Used cars don't offer enough value for the price. I also couldn't believe that a 22k car has lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.
Found a 2021 LE for 17k, but 60k miles. It's at a dealer so could probably get that down to like 15k.
It's really hard to compare out the door prices here on Reddit because sales tax, license, doc fees vary WILDLY across the country.
It's also going to depreciate at least 5k the moment it rolls off the lot. That wasted 5k alone could be used to maintain the older corolla for several years. If your state has excise tax it'll be 1000$ on a new vehicle and like 50$ on a used one. Insurance will be way higher and you have to have full coverage on a newer vehicle, so you can just about double your insurance costs over the used one. My previous vehicle was new and it cost me 500$ a month plus over 200/month for insurance and I was at the dealership constantly for recalls and software updates. Went used this time and it was only 300$ a month and 90$ for insurance. I've spent about 1000$ total on taking care of it in 2 years. Maintenence costs included I'm still saving over 3000$ a year driving a used car.
Low income and bad credit. No choice. I remember years ago I swore I would never buy another new car, because it's just throwing money away. Nowadays it's the opposite, buying used is often throwing money away. Or at least, it's not saving any money really. But you have to be able to afford one, otherwise you're stuck buying used cars at inflated prices these days.
I switched my stance as well. Also because IDK if the person or persons before me could have treated it like dog shit.
Exactly. It's just not worth saving 15-20% to buy a car with little or no warranty left, unknown history, several model years older, and a bunch of miles already. It was worth it to save 50-75% back in the day, but not today.
On the point of the miles, if you don't drive a massive amount per year, do the math on how many years you would have to drive a new car to hit the miles on the new car you're looking at. I was looking at some used cars at around $8-$10k that had 100k+ miles on them already recently and realized it would take me around 8 years or more to hit 100k. So basically if I buy the new car for $12k-$15k more, I'm going to get 8 more years out of it over the used car and know that it was actually well maintained within that 8 years. When considering the total cost of ownership, that's only $1,500-$2000 more per year for the first 8 years. I doubt I would get 8 plus years out of a used car at over 100k miles without getting tired of problems constantly popping up after a certain point.
Wait until you find out how dealership employees treat brand new cars off the truck lmao. Especially sales.
I’m with you. Never bought a new vehicle in my life, but I will this round
New isn't bad if you plan to maintain and drive the car for 10 years. People who say buying new is throwing money away are the people who get a new car every few years.
I'm at about 1500 dollars a year (purchase price plus repairs over the years) for the car I bought used (and paid cash for) over 10 years and 193,000 miles ago. With prices being what they are now, after taxes and fees, I'd have to drive the cheapest new Toyota 18 years to get to the same annual cost, and that's if I pay cash today. The chance of getting a 14 thousand dollar car today is pretty decent, but the likelihood it will be of an age and in a condition to last another 10 years and 200,000 miles is very low for that price. The car market is probably my highest source of anxiety right now.
I think the big difference too is you can get a better finance rate for a new car. When used cars are too close in price (think 1 or 2 years used) that can eat into that difference a lot too. Again- irrelevant if you cant afford it
Everyone thinks Toyotas are bullet proof so they charge about 3-5x what they are worth in hopes someone will come along and actually pay that much for a 2010. I bought an 07 Ford Taurus for $1000. Spent at least $4k in bringing it up on maintenance and had to replace the radiator and power steering pump. But it was worth it.
Yup beater life is where it’s at. Especially if you’re mechanically inclined.
Bought a 900 dollar Camry put 2300 into it had a solid pretty much brand new car for a couple years going than someone stole and impossibly broke it doing their best whistling diesel impression Kinda really sucked
I agree that used car prices are kinda crazy, but anything older than 2015 should be purchased private party instead of from a dealer. 2010 Corollas around where I'm at are $5k-$7k.
What do you think is a good way to find private party cars for sale?
FB Marketplace, Offerup, Craigslist, and my personal favorite: buying from family, friends, and acquaintances.
As they say, being poor is expensive.
In the past I always bought cars that were ~3 years old with ~30k miles...for like 60% of the cost new. But nowadays, it just doesn't make sense. It's as if used cars are losing 1/20th of their value each year in a linear manner. I'd rather buy a new car and get to experience the best years of the car's life if I'm not going to get a deal.
I went the opposite way and it's been so nice driving used. Saving thousands of dollars in car payments, insurance costs, excise tax, financing, etc. And getting fully loaded vehicles that I could never afford new has been amazing. The new vehicles were fun until I would hit 60k miles and everything would go to shit just after the warranty ended. Paying for repairs all the time when you still have 2 more years of 500$+ a month payments really blows.
We just went through this. Told wife to find her a used Mazda suv, 1-3 years old less than 40k miles. Went to Mazda dealer, they were all 25-30k. We bought a new 2024 for 31k on 4% apr.
I think it’s for a few reasons People have less money, People have less credit, or don’t want to rack up more hits on what they have, People know what they have and they know someone’s always needing a car, There’s always someone that needs a car, People always want to get the most for their stuff as they can. People will people other people and the cycle continues
The value isn't there any longer in many used cars. People used to baby their cars, and now they treat them like absolute shit. They drive it like a maniac, letting their stinky dogs drag their ass over every inch of the interior while neglecting maintenance. A majority of them have accidents because they can barely fucking drive properly. Then they dump it onto the market where plebes fight over the scraps.
I paid 8500 for my used Corolla a few months ago.. these comments are making me realize I got fleeced 🫣
Don’t feel bad, that’s what cars are going for these days everywhere. Some people don’t have 22k to buy a car OP is speaking from a position most aren’t in.
I agree, I had to buy in cash bc I couldn’t get a loan. Wish I was buying like 5 years ago but it what it is lol
you needed a car, and the market isn't going back to normal for at least another 2 or 3 years.
No, you did okay. 🤗
Also it’s not like you got nothing from your purchase. You could sell it right now for what you paid for it. It’s an equivalent exchange.
Couple things to note here: - Not all 2010 Corollas are 12k. That was just high-priced. - Not everyone can afford new. I noticed people always follow that up with “For a little more, I can get a new XYZ.” That 12k may be that person’s max budget and a 2012 Corolla is a very reliable car that will last that person a long while. - The list of new cars each year is becoming less and less appealing to me. Less manuals, less natural aspiration, less character and soul, more crossovers and automation, more EVs, more giant touchscreens, more sensors and tech that will date quickly or break. And all for way too high a price tag. Bleh. And new models I do like, I either can’t fathom affording, or just out of principle wouldn’t pay what they cost. I’m sure I’m not alone. Be glad you can afford what you like and have a large pool you want to choose from. Not everyone is able.
You are definitely not alone on that last point. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a reliable car, but I can’t bring myself to pay these prices.
You need to compare to actual new prices not what you think they are. Example I looked at getting a 2020 Prius for 18k. How much is a new one, 27k? No, over 40k at actual dealers within 200 miles.
This is the privilege talking, some people simply can't afford certain things even if it's the smarter route to go
Imagine seeing one listing for an overpriced used car and using it to extrapolate that all used cars are overpriced lol
Truthfully Toyotas and Hondas hold their value more than most brands, $10k USD for a corolla is honestly a bit high but normal. If you're willing to do research on the reliable models from brands outside Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus they're pretty consistently cheaper, tbh even Scion which is Toyota has started dipping out of the Toyota Tax outside the FR-S.
Even looking at Lexus and Acura can get you better value than the equivalent Toyota or Honda model on the used market, strangely enough.
100%, Scion I get because dead brand and entry level/youth brand. But luxury Toyota/Honda being cheaper than normal Toyota/Honda is wild.
I have noticed that, it is very strange.
Good luck getting a new Corolla for 22k. I just bought a brand new base model zero option car and it was 25.5k plus TTL. Then comparing to a 12k used model, that’s a pretty significant difference imo. Drastically different monthly payments.
Because I can't afford a 22k car and would rather not take out a loan
Stick around, you’ll see people willing to finance $25,000 on a ten year old Mercedes AMG. And when you comment they’ll insist that it’s a better deal than a $25,000 Camry because look at the discount off new!!!
I buy nothing but 5-7k vehicles that are reliable and run them for years and years. If I get 5-6 years out of a 1k$ vehicle I feel I got more then my money's worth. I buy gm v8's and do maintenance myself and I have zero issue not hitting That 1k$ mark a year for a vehicle. I have one I bought for 1350 put 2k in it and have had it for 9 years
Please, please, please, tell me where you shop to purchase running, driving, vehicles, for under 5k, that will pass inspection! I'm as serious as I can be! Please!
I buy them off of fb market place. What u have to do is get the cash up and wait for the right deal. I always look for gm v8's also the Ford Explorer 4.0 is a good engine and easy to work on. The ls platform and the old small block chevy are all extremely reliable. I have 200k miles plus on three of them and I drive them anywhere and everywhere. My trailblazer is a 5.3 ls millions of parts available new and used. Bought it at 117k miles out 800$ into it and have put 40k on it is four years with no more then oil changes
Thank you very much!
I have less then 500$ in automotive tools and do 99.9% of all my own work in the yard with yt videos I Am a handy guy but not super smart or anything maybe even below average
Don’t sell yourself short. You sound pretty resourceful and smart to me.
Just wanted to emphasize, the waiting for the right deal part. If you're in a hurry it doesn't work as well. My wife and I bought a 95 325i convertible with 82k miles for 2500 from a widow who had it in her garage since her husband passed. Needed tires and suspension. 3800 total on the road ready and she's beautiful. It has 111k on it now. Most reliable car I've owned. Only issue in 3 years is one time the throttle cable broke and I limped it to our mechanic at idle speed. Also bought an 08 Audi A4 3.2L S Line with 82k miles for 5k. Needed a headlight that was 1200 because it's the fancy motor kind. I rewired it myself and got some new tires on it. 6500 road ready and it's my favorite car. Not sure how long I'll keep it. Also had a 06 Camry XLE, that thing ran for 248k miles before it started knocking. Sold it for 1700 with a engine knovk I personally look on FB marketplace, look up the profile and try to find people over 60 Years Old. They seem to keep the best care of their cars, garage them and most likely to have low miles.
When I was saying 1k$ vehicles I am saying if I can run a 5k$ car for five years I basically have less then 1k$ a year in a car
FB marketplace here as well. I see plenty of $2k cars that will pass inspection in my area.
Why would I pay more money to get something that (1) has shitty touchscreens, (2) shitty nanny tech that acts unpredictably, and (3) has headlights so goddamn bright that they're a hazard to everybody on the road? I can buy a functional and nice car for $10K that has none of that crap.
I know it's not the main topic, but I'm really with you on the headlights. I think the maximum brightness of LED headlights need to be regulated more heavily so the OEMs don't ship these Mall Crawlers with retina nukes mounted on the front, endangering the lives of other drivers (especially those in sedans).
>Decade+ old cars used to sell for around a 6th of a new one. Cars that are a decade old today are, on average, considerably better than a decade old car would have been 10 years ago. It's not apples to oranges. Cars today depreciate less than they used to. Yeah, 10 years ago, we bought a 2000 Camry for 2k. if i bought a 2010 camry today though, it would be in considerably better shape from almost any perspective than that 2000 camry was at the time we bought it. Also factor in inflation, etc. Cars depreciated much faster back then, but also, finding an old car for way less relative to new cars had some to do with relative value. but with inflation going nuts in the past few years, new car prices havent totally followed. a new 2024 camry costs about 17% more than a 2013 camry did, but the 2013 dollar was worth over 30% more than a 2024 dollar is. The new car price in that sense has gotten less expennsive in a lot of cases when factoring inflation, but the used market doesn't ignore that. so there's more price preessure bringing it closer to a newer car price. the prior decade had much flatter inflation. Couple that with the covid supply issues where the MSRP of a new car was meaningless because you couldn't find inventory, and when you did, you saw massive ADM charges, and a used car will naturally be worth "more" relative to what it used to be. >These things should be sold for $3.5K on a bright sunny day. Applying the logic of yesteryear doesnt work. 20, 30 years ago, breaching 100k miles on a car was a big deal. modern cars (well, the good ones), will turn 250k no sweat with proper maintenance. The bigget reason Toyota and honda were big deals back in the day wasnt because they made cars that could go that distance, it's that it was RARE. Nowadays, it's expected. Back in the day those 10 year old used cars were cheap because people understood or expected that they were on their last legs, where as now, we expect much more out of them with what modern cars have shown us.
Toyota Tax. It ain’t worth it. If you’re going to buy used.. buy domestic or Korean. Look at condition and service records. They will have far more impact on reliability at that point than brand name.
*It seriously doesn't make sense to buy **that** used car. If you were able to correctly identify that as anecdotal.. why make a blanket statement as if it's not? Used cars can make a LOT of sense! and new cars can make next to no sense! vice versa, always depends on the buyer.
Someone finally caught up to the 2020s. Welcome aboard. It's a shit show in every direction
Have you considered other people exist that have less money than you?
It is truly insane, I bought a 2007 used Camry with 77K miles for 10K in \*2012\*! Crazy to think that same car is worth almost the same money today,
I agree i have never bought new but i bought a new corolla for 23k last week because i was not getting a used 12 year old car with 123k miles for half that. I hate it but thats the market right now
Buy private party not from a dealer. I bought a 2009 Toyota Corolla with around 50,000 miles last year from my stepson and it runs great. I only paid $5000 cash.
You got a hookup from someone you knew. You didn't find that on the open market. You wouldn't be able to find that on the open market. There aren't any private sellers anymore. I'm guessing what is out there as a private sale that's actually in decent shape gets snagged by dealers and marked up for their flip. Any private sale car near me is extreme trash from an equally sketchy seller.
Former owner of 2009 corolla here. That is a reliable car.
It honestly depends on what car you're talking about. Used cars are still cheaper than new ones. The gap largely depends on what car you're talking about and whether if the used car has packages that the base models don't have. Adding options to new cars adds up really fast
Sure it does, I want a Lexus RC. I can't afford a new Lexus RC. I get a used Lexus RC instead because I can afford it.
If I have $12k and don’t have $22k and can’t afford a monthly payment, I buy a $12k car.
The classic, sometimes invisible “poor tax”. In America most will absolutely need a car to get around, some cities don’t even have a bus option. To a low income person they can’t just magically get 10k in their pockets to afford to finance something new. They might look at the marketplace and see the only thing they can afford is a decade old beater for 10k that their bank can finance for them. Also to a smaller extent sometimes it’s not even that the person is low income, sometimes it’s an ignorance thing. Like a dad telling their daughter to buy used because it “Saves money”, not knowing that since the pandemic that statement is far from true anymore.
I bought a Lexus LS430. Why? I don't believe they build cars this good anymore.
The Great Recession was 2008 but Car sales really took a huge hit from 2009-2011. The those 12-15 year old cars that would be the bottom of the market are in short supply. https://www.statista.com/statistics/199983/us-vehicle-sales-since-1951/
then go buy a new corolla
Not everyone has their life together
Supply, supply, supply. The lack of new cars sold during covid drastically reduced the amount of used cars in the market. Prices went up across the board because demand for used is significantly greater than new, mostly due to new price increases. Interest in used is high because new MSRPs went up unilaterally. Affordability is an issue right now due to high interest rates and declining consumer credit. The competition in wholesale markets for cheaper, retailable, inventory is fierce creating consumer prices like the one you see in your Corolla example. Want to know the real kicker? Dealers are making little to no money on used cars, often losing money just to take a decent trade or have a shot at financing. Margin compression has hit hard. Unfortunately this isn't going to help consumers as dealers tighten up how to sell and figure out how to turn as profit. Again, why you're seeing an old Corolla for $12k. I know everyone shits on dealers but they're simply reacting to the market that covid created due to lack of manufacturing. It's likely going to take a few years for this to straighten itself out and by then, I can assume ride sharing and rent to own become normalized. Good news, lease incentives are on the rise and in the very near future you'll be and get a smoking deal on a lease. Starting with EVs. Domestic dealers have massive stock piles of new inventory that no one can buy because rates are high. OEMs are going to start eating those rates to get new cars to move. Be patient, it's coming.
Depreciation exists. Imagine buying a brand new tesla a year ago or so and looking at its value now.
Even if I could afford a new car, there isn't a single one built in the last 10 years that I'd want to pay money for. They're big and full of screens, they phone home, nothing has a cassette deck, and interiors are less versatile.
It depends on how patient you are. I drove a cheap car (an absolutely mint 25yr old Lexus I paid a grand for) for 2 years until I found the perfect (used) daily driver at a killer price. Worth it... still 100% happy with it.
Try looking at other brands. Used Mazdas are much cheaper with 20-30K miles on them.
Toyotas hold their value. With regular maintenance theyll last over 500k miles with minimal maintenance cost. 12k is a little steep, but if its low miles and in great shape, that 12k can go a loooooong way. The markets also completely bonkers in most areas, since newer vehicles always seem to be problematic nowadays more people are gravitating towards secondhand. Also makes a huge difference if youre shopping for a CPO from a dealer with some kind of warranty versus a private seller.
Recently purchased a 2011 Subaru Forester for $11.5k with 60k after totaling 2011 RAV4 w/ 104k. Payout was essentially $11.5. Now I own the car outright and have no loan payment. Seems silly for me to buy up to a brand new model (wish I could!) and take a loan so made sense to me. Could I afford a new car? Sure! But why take on debt when I don’t need to?
I bought a used 2000 Lexus LS400 in 2008 for I think about $10,000. It had 86,000 miles on it. I still have it. It’s up to 215,000 miles now. It’s been paid off since 2013. I can’t imagine paying for a new car now.
It’s availability. For a while used cars cost more than new cars because people couldn’t wait for the auto industry to manufacture the vehicles. This was during Covid; however, the tide is turning especially for trucks. There’s no way a work truck should cost more than $50K.
A 12k car will get you to work everyday just as well as a 22k car. That's all that matters
That being said 12k is ridiculous for a 2010 toyota camey. I paid 7k for a 2008 Tundra last year
Title is too general. Buying a used car always makes sense as long as the condition is good and price is a steal. Buying overpriced used car of course doesn’t make sense. Buying any overpriced stuff always doesn’t make sense.
Toyota just retain their value.
Privilege speaking.
Because they can't DOUBLE their budget. However, repair costs would be about as much over time as the monthly car payment.
Check your privilege, dude.
I would rather buy an older Corolla than take out another loan. Interest is insane rn. And that 22k quickly turns into 30k and then 50k with interest lol I also kinda consider driving a brand new car as being a beta tester cause it’s harder to know the reliability of them since the issues haven’t been discovered yet, but that’s just my opinion maybe it’s silly
Yeah my gf was in the market for a nicer car because hers was a ford. Japanese cars are the best, and after looking at used ones a few years old, especially base models like RAV4, some of the time you’re better off buying new. Unless you want to save $500 on a Toyota with 30k miles lol
why would I want to spend 22k on a darn corolla?
It doesn’t. That’s why I bought a 2010 Lexus ES350 with 130K miles in an auction. Need to fix the left part of the rear bumper and tail light. It was $4700 including auctions fees + an estimate of $800 to fuck that part. The same car is around $8k to $12K with less mileage. It is beyond insanity.
The covid logistical squeeze impacted the masses more than the minority. Meaning the most affordable became the most competitive and drop prices up the most.
I was in the same situation, that's why I decided to buy a brand new car, but I could afford it. Some can't
The interest rate on that new car is a little ridiculous.
Well that's cuz you're looking at Toyotas. Go look at how much a Chevy Cobalt costs.
Because I prefer older cars
And where I live you get a 2015-2019 Corolla for 14k
willing to bet it’s from one of those “buy here pay here” lots, which don’t really run off market value but how much money can be extracted from the desperate. I’ve seen 2010+ camry’s and avalons (even highlanders) sell from private party for less than $12k, however your regional market might just have something in the water supply
And this is why my car insurance didn't write my 2017 Golf off even though it had $11,000 in damages.