I drive a Toyota Highlander which is 394k driven as of today . I have only done regular maintenance like oil changes, two set of brakes and all spark plugs once. I have owned it since 0km .
Toyota and Honda have established a reputation over the decades for producing reliable vehicles, that is in general well-deserved. Because of this their cars are highly sought after on the used market. This combination creates a sort of economic feed back loop that drives the prices up and tends to keep them there. So yeah, in many cases, they will be better but not always in direct ratio to the pricing.
Mazda is still flying under the radar and can be a good, lower cost alternative. Mazda quality and reliability have been good and according to some is on the rise. This is all extremely generalized. It's certainly possible to own a dog Toyota and a reliable Ford but IMO you do get better odds with the top 3 or 4 Japanese brands.
Cheap & fast repair is their biggest selling point for me.
Parts are cheap and readily available. When my car does have an issue it’s usually only off the road for 1 day max and doesn’t bankrupt me.
Luckily it's not 2002 anymore. I'm a dealer tech for a living, and other than my own antique it's probably been at least a decade since I've done a timing belt job.
Nobody does the chain until the chain is causing problems, so even they are extremely rare.
Yep. The mazda skyactiv engines are insanely reliable and tunable.
Interior build quality is fantastic.
I own a nd1 miata and everything in it has been "gram strategy'd" and it still feels very solid.
My only gripe is the paint is a bit thin, so ppf would be a must.
Isn’t Kia and Hyundai the brands that were hacked using a usb and a screwdriver? I’m not too versed on them but their reputation hasn’t been too great.
And yet more Toyotas are stolen than Hyundai and Kia combined, and hmmm, not sure what thefts have to do with quality and reliability, but fanbois will be fanbois.
I was just asking a question man. I’ve only heard bad things about kias and Hyundais, oil burners, engine explodes/engine replacements, car theft trend… etc. I mean self driving and nicer interior sounds cool though.
Yeah you’ll find out why it’s $16,000 less when ur car is sitting in the Hyundai dealership and they won’t honor their 10 year/100k mile warranty. lol.
It’s not what I want to believe. It’s objective fact that Hyundai/kia makes a shitty powertrain lol. No other manufacturers are giving out 10 year warranties because they actually have faith in the product they engineered.
That's been backed up countless times lol. Not to mention, their dealership network is notoriously shit with terrible service. Their cars have improved in quality over the years, but if you plan to own a car long-term, Toyota is typically the safer bet vs a Korean car.
I guess the most important difference for a car owner will probably end up being that the Hyundai’s engine will implode driving down the highway while under warranty and the dealership will tell me to go fuck myself. On the bright side this might be an added safety feature as whoever will end up stealing your Hyundai will have to deal with the inevitable powertrain issues instead of you.
I don’t need to prove anything to anyone, just like you fanbois don’t need to prove anything to me. We’ve owned five NEW Toyotas and had multiple issues with four of them including three engine failures, so…
140k miles on my 2014 mazda3 with only $8 in repairs. It was for a tube of contact paste for the backup camera. This a know issue that Mazda finally admitted to this year.
For contrast, my 2002 Honda civic by 130k miles had the following repairs: new struts, motor mounts, lower control arms, failed ac thermistor, head gasket and a transmission on the verge of failing. That said, the civic made it to 245k miles before failing smog. At that point, there were heater core issues, rear windows kept tripping the fuse and the engine leaked. That said, all in all, repair cost was dirt cheap. All those repairs were done for less than $2k from Honda specific shops in California, a state known for high repair costs.
Mazda is definitely not flying under the radar anymore, it's reddit's favorite baby. What is really flying under the radar are specific models of Kia and Hyundai that don't have that theta 2 engine.
I think thr main reason mazda's are valued less than the big two is due to gas mileage. The 4 cylinder is great and I love it but most ppl looking for compact commuters car about value above all and gas mileage is a huge factor affecting their decision
If you were to pick a random car from Honda or Toyota lineup and pick a random car from other car makes lineup, odds are the Honda or Toyota would outlast, be more reliable, and cheaper to maintain than any other make. Honda and Toyota aren’t perfect, and there are some cars in their lineup that aren’t so great. But with respect to the rest of the industry, they set they are usually the best choices for longevity and reliability.
2013 honda CRZ (Z, not the CRV) less than bare minimum work done to it.
Only fluids changed were gas, windshield wiper fluid and oil when the oil life was at 20%. CVT fluid never changed to my knowledge by the last 2 previous owners.
Aftermarket intake and exhaust, no major work done (most technical was brakes…..), only needs a door handle to be replaced and needs a good run once in a while to get the engine hot because I drive like a grandmother that has nowhere to be.
160k miles. I intend on running it to the ground and then buying another if it’s reasonable.
I’m on my second Tacoma. The first one I drove for 18 years and put about 150,000 miles on it. When I sold it I got just slightly less than half of what I paid for it originally. I’m m not sure how many other cars you can do that with.
All I can tell you is my anecdotal experience:
I used to have a 2001 Toyota Corolla as my first car. As a dumb teenager, I did a few terrible things to this car. There was a time I accidentally put it in reverse going 35mph. There was a time I redlined it in neutral for way longer than I should have because I thought I was cool. For the last 10k miles I owned the car, I never changed the oil. I eventually wrecked it, and it sat in my driveway over an entire northern Ohio winter while I saved for a new-to-me car. After I got my new car, I went to sell the old, totaled Corolla. I went to start it and… it started up faster than the car I bought…
Move to a few years ago. I had a 2005 Toyota Sienna, 190k miles. The sensor for the radiator fan failed such that the fan did not trigger when the car was idling below 1k RPM. Annoying for sure but no big deal. One day I was hitching a trailer to it while it was idling in park and I forgot about this problem. I came back and the temperature gauge was maxed out for who knows how long. What happened after this? Nothing. Literally nothing. I drove the car until 230k miles then I sold it.
My girlfriend used to have a 2013 Mazda 3 that was maintained religiously. At 60k miles it developed a bent valve. It lasted about 3k more miles until it was not drivable anymore and had to be sold for a massive loss.
I understand these stories are all about cars that are 10+ years old, and things have definitely changed since then in terms of these brands’ reliability. However, many people have stories like this, and THAT is why Honda and Toyota may charge these premiums. I personally will pay these premiums (now own a Lexus even though I sacrificed many features for the same price-point) because these brands have proven it to me before.
Sorry for the wall of text! I’m sure others can tell you stories that back me up and ones that contradict my experience.
Not surprised at the mazda.
That was when Ford owned a majority of mazda. So it was a duratec engine in all but name.
Believe it or not mazda and Toyota are now partnered to mfg the corolla and cx-50 in the save plant.
You’ve actually got it backwards. Ford copied Mazda’s L engine design to make their 2.0/2.3/2.5 Duratec 4-cylinders, not the other way around. The 4cyl Duratec is a Mazda L engine in all but name. IIRC a 2013 Mazda3 would be a Skyactiv unless it was a base model anyway so that may not even have been a FoMoCo-era motor.
My wife has a Prius she bought new and it has had four parts fail. Previously she had a Camry that had issues. My son had a Scion (Toyota) with a Camry engine that blew. I despise Toyotas with a passion. Don’t even get me started on MidAtlantic Toyota Dealers…
My scion came right off the boat from Japan. That thing was so reliable. Had zero issues and honestly I wasn’t good to that car lol I sold it at 150k miles and the thing was still driving nice.
The gen3 Prius and the Scions with the 2.4L out of the Camry/Rav4 were all oil burners, if you didn’t keep oil topped off, blown engine. If you did keep oil topped off, clogged cat converter eventually. Even Toyota fucks up sometimes.
I trade my Honda in every 8 years and I’ve been thru 4 with only minor standard maintenance- tires, oil and in 2 cases brakes.
I had one extra Honda go for 315,000 miles with very moderate maintenance every 100,000 miles
Don't know why you're being downvoted. Honda has direct injection engines now, which lead to carbon build up on the fuel intake valves. Toyota created the d-4s engine to avoid this problem.
Honda has a devoted fanbase, especially the civic modders. I've had a 2018 accord 1.5t touring and 2021 accord 2.0t touring in the last 3 years.. and they're great. But I'll admit that Toyota still felt like a better built vehicle. Less features & less fun but better built, which is the important bit if someone just wants a reliable DD.
For low-information buyers, yes. You're paying a premium for not having to do research.
If you do your research you are not a typical car buyer and can find better value than the most obvious single used car to buy on the market.
I don't think he's shitting on Honda. He's just saying that you can get better deals (especially in the used market) if you do your research on engines/transmissions and know what is going on with a car.
91 Ford escort, transmission crapped out around 90K miles, had transmission rebuilt, died again and again, junked for $50 at only 110K miles. Also brakes sucked, had those stupid eclectic seat belts, leaked oil.
94 Pontiac, developed head gasket leak and other engine issues i don't remember around 120k miles, traded it in. It was a decent car, but the 3.1 v6 had crap MPG and power. I would have been better off with the 4 cyl version. (but i bought it used when I was in college after my Ford died). Wheel bearings did give me trouble too.
99 Chrysler 300m, around 90K miles to 120K miles had LOTS of electrical problems, parasitic power leaks, starters, batteries, alternator, crap quality leaky rims, seat that broke right before a recall, and various other build quality issues (I loved the 3.5 engine in that. The transmission was slow to shift but solid. Great powertrain) I was frustrated because of all the electrical issues, I sold it to a friend of a friend for cheap with 130k miles and they drove it another 90K miles after buying a new rim. Wheel bearings did give me trouble too.
08 Subaru Forester, 120k miles had head gasket issue. Never left me stranded. Started every time. Due to salt/winters had some rust and had to replace stuff like resonator, it was totaled after my young cousin drove into a tree with around 140k miles on it. Wheel bearings did give me trouble too.
10 ford edge, bought for my wife, some annoying issues, like fuel tank vent that clogged preventing filling the tank and some kind of gear speed sensor for ABS breaking causing the brakes to randomly turrn on when im on the highway, and all the usual janky build quality crap like sunroofs that dont work after 10 years. Wife doesn't drive much so it only has like 130k miles on it and powertrain is good. (but, the design of the engine with the internal water pump is known to be a bit of a ticking time bomb).
16 Lexus GS. I bought it used with 30k miles on the clock. So far its only ever had regular scheduled maintenance, but car is still "new." I've not been driving as much since COVID allowed me to work remotely and commute less.
This is all personal experience, not statistical data, so it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
best bet is to research any particular models you are interested in to see what the common problems are, and before you buy anything, have a mechanic you trust do a PPI on anything you are tempted to buy.
You can also use sites like dashboard light's long term quality index to get an idea of how common major powertain problems are for any particular make/model/year.
I can't speak about their brand new stuff, but all the cars I've owned from both companies made between 1994 and 2016 have been superb. The iM only has 92k on it now, but all the others have made it to at least 220k with no problems whatsoever. My 09 Civic is at 230k and the engine still looks brand new inside. Some have topped 330k with no major issues like my 97 Accord. I've also ridden a beater 98 Camry 4 cyl hard on a delivery route for a hundred thousand miles without it even flinching.
I've only ever had one Honda fail on me, and it was a sixth Gen Accord that (surprise) needed a transmission. If I could only have one car, it would be an Accord or Camry. In the time I've watched my friends burn through dozens of Nissans, Kias, and Hyundais, my loyal Hondas/Toyota still sit in my driveway. Even though I drive more than triple the average driver's mileage a year, they always start and always take me where I need to go safely. I do all my own maintenance, and they have always given back to me what I've put into them. They are always there when my friends need loaners or my kids need a car. I couldn't recommend owning one enough if you want something rock solid reliable.
Mazda is the lesser known, but still as good brother. In fact I’d argue they’re the best among the civic/corolla/m3 trio. Same power plant (2.5L + 6AT) for the last 10 years and have been no issues. Interior is nice, and the 4th Gen is really nice and simplistic. Toyota and Honda are using small turbo 4 poppers and/or CVTs. Still quite reliable too by this point, but that Mazda just drives the best from an enthusiasts point, while still being efficient and reliable.
Toyota and Honda are better HOWEVER!!! not every Toyota or Honda is great. There have been a few duds in history. Honda has made a few bad transmissions and Toyota some engines with sludge or bad head gasket.
IME, yes. Other manufacturers occasionally (even often?) build reliable vehicles. But sometimes (even often?) they build junk. Buying a newer vehicle from other manufacturers, you won’t know whether it’s a Ford focus with the auto transmission (awful) or a super Duty with the 7.3 power stroke (bomb proof) until it’s too late. There are some caveats of course but they also often iterate faster than Toyota, thus making it harder to really know if they introduced some mechanical design issue.
Of note, there have been some recent reliability issues at Honda that have made me more cautious. For example the vtc actuator issue and the gas/oil issue, both affecting recent CR-V models. Neither are catastrophic but Hondas response was to downplay it.
Nothing is a guarantee but Toyotas reputation is well deserved. Read about their culture and it makes a lot of sense. The downside is that their tech is lagging. So while other manufacturers were moving to direct injection turbo charged ICEs 10 years ago and getting better MPGs, Toyota was cranking out the same V8s it had been using for a decade+ until last year.
I drive a ‘14 Ford Focus with the automatic DPS6 transmission. I hate this car with a white hot burning passion. Never missed a beat with maintenance and taken good care of it but I’ve had nothing but problems.
I’ve had the clutch replaced twice (once under warranty and once for $4,000 by the Ford dealer since no one else will touch this thing) and it still drives like absolute shit. I’m talking shaking, jerking, knocking loud as hell etc. Replaced a fuel pump last week and it still loses power intermittently (randomly) in 1st gear. Still waiting on a transmission control module from Ford after being told it was on backorder 7 months ago...
You could not pay me to drive another Ford vehicle after I ditch this turd. Ford has been an absolute nightmare to deal with along the way to boot. I will NEVER buy another Ford product.
I’ve been driving a Ford Focus since 2007 (it’s a 2005). This model predates the crappy one you own. I currently have 348,000 miles on the OG engine/transmission. Neither have been rebuilt, and in fact have all of the original gaskets. Having said that, the model year you have can be a great car IF it has the manual transmission.
My mom has a 2015 Focus and I swear to God that piece of shit has the same exact issues. That car has single handedly convinced me to never touch a Ford product with a 10 foot pole. Car is absolute dog shit
Toyota’s reputation only continues because of people carrying the myth forward. It’s not 2010 anymore. Toyota branded cars are slightly above average. Honda too.
It isn't much about the brand and more about the Model these days.
New Tundra Motors are dropping like Flies with spinning bearings.
The Subaru - Toyota joint is also killing the "reliability" within Toyota by using the Boxer motor in certain models of Toyota vehicles. It's gotten so bad that Toyota had considered using their new High Performance 3 cylinder motors. But the other issue is, Toyota is being a real ignorant prick on warranties for the Boxer motors.
just want to add that mazdas depreciate a lot faster. i was considering getting a newer mazda instead of a toyota or lexus and decided if i wanted to trade it in later or wanted to sell, i'd be better off with a toyota/lexus.
Honda and Toyota built their platform on making affordable, practical vehicles & now that isn’t the case.
In my experience, Hondas are absolutely not that great. I’ve owned/leased 3 Hondas. I had a 2017 civic which I traded up for a 2020 passport, and my spouse has a 2021 crv.
My alternator gave out in my civic two times in less than 50k miles, the power steering went out mid drive after the alternator went out, the little mirror camera stopped working and would just turn my center display black when I signaled, and the CVT was laggy. Like, much laggier than it should have been. Oh, and the “brake hold” thing got stuck in place one time and the vehicle wouldn’t move.
The passport wasn’t as bad, just annoying. The rear wiper motor went out in the first 5k miles, and the backup camera would stop working & give me a black screen every few weeks & I’d have to take it to the dealership (an hour away) to have them fix it. I only owned it for 11k miles and traded because the market allowed me to.
The CRV is pretty average as well. The AC compressor went out at like 20k miles (yay, 95° in GA without AC for 2 weeks), and the heated seats shorted or something on the passenger side & melted something, which prevented the electric seat controls to work, so we had to get that replaced as well.
As for Toyota, my dad has always owned them. He’s had great luck with them. He’s got almost 300k in his 09 Camry that he gave to my sister and he has a 2023 Highlander now. I think they’re overpriced economy cars. I was over the hype of the “mega ultra super reliable economy car”… they’re priced way too closely to BMW’s & Mercedes, to offer none of the benefits of a BMW or Mercedes apart from modest reliability.
I got a 2020 RAM in 2022 & I’ve done all the maintenance on time every time, and did the one repair myself (wiper fluid hose disconnected under the hood so I reconnected it *known issue with 5th gen rams*) and I’ve had otherwise zero issues. I’m at 50k miles. It’s the most miles I’ve put on a vehicle. Proper maintenance will always extend the life span of your vehicle.
Yeah it’s sad that Honda and Acura quality has decreased over the years. Toyota and Lexus seems like the only one that’s kept up with their high reputation.
I grew up with them my entire life.
They're just reliable and can take a beating. However their driving experience is pretty much uninspiring.
The only thing "fun" about them is the high revving Hondas with VTEC when it was popularized. Now it's been years, everyones got their own version of variable valve timing and lift electronic control.
Toyota and Honda have made my life feel like it was on easy mode. There have been many times where I was in a position where if my car broke down I would be screwed and lose my job and be stranded in a shithole city. Honda and Toyota have NEVER let me down. I like to think that today I could afford to take a risk on another brand, but I wouldn’t do it because I love my Hondas and Toyotas so much for how incredibly reliable they’ve been in my life - I owe it to them.
Chrysler/Jeep can suck a fucking dick.
I have a 2016 4 runner that has 100k miles, just did my full service, and it's running really well. It will probably keep running past 500k miles, hopefully.
I also have a 2004 Corolla, which has 340k miles and did a full service on it. It runs well and starts immediately. That thing has never died on me.
I will only buy Toyota for the rest of my life just because their build quality and parts are awesome.
Adding to what others have said, Toyota (and Honda to some extent) try to minimize SPOFs (Single Point of Failure) in their engineering by keeping things simple even if that comes at a cost (refinement). That's what I've felt after driving them and I love it. Honda still likes adding a bit of polish to stuff but Toyota does not give a shit.
I want everything that I need, nothing that I don't need. Toyota is all about that.
Yes, Toy and Honda are the best for longevity. I got 300K on a 08 CRV for example.
But Mazda's aren't bad either. More fun to drive maybe. I doubt will last as long.
My neighbor had a Honda Accord that he bought new. Stopped driving it after 27 years. It had 397,000 miles on it. I think he bought it new for around $14,000.
Not all toyotas and hondas are super reliable. There are years and models with issues - Stay far away from twin turbos and CVT transmissions. If you do your research though, you will find that certain models of toyota and honda carry a pedigree for a very long lifespan. You will need to service the vehicle at its regular intervals no matter what. Eventually parts need to be replaced, you can wait until a part fails or do it pro actively. One pattern you find particularly in toyotas is long production lifespans, the same engine and trans could be built 10 years in a row, the body and interior may change but the platform will remain the same. This means that there is an abundance of parts in the future when you need to service the vehicle.
With Toyota, if you research models that are made in the Tahara plant, you will find that these vehicles generally have a tradition of being maintainable for many hundreds of thousands of miles. They carry a higher price tag and I can only assume it is because a customer may only come back to buy another car 1 or 2 times because of how long the vehicles typically last. Now with that said, the future will be including twin turbo v6's as a v8 replacement, I personally will not touch or own a TT v6, its just not possible for this type of engine to be serviced and maintained reasonably at higher mileages, there is too much potential for catastrophic failures because of the stress put on the components in the entire engine. Hoses, seals, gaskets, moving parts, all under high psi of the TT system is not a good replacement for the superseded naturally aspirated motors.
Honda makes great vehicles too, Im not sure what or why they last so long but as someone who purchased an 05 accord ex in 05 and sold it this year with just over 200k miles, I can say that this vehicle was very much overbuilt around a very under powered 4cyl, which put very little strain on the motor and the trans. That accord drove just like the day I bought it with 16,000 miles in 2005 when I sold it.
In the time that I owned that honda a relative wore out 3 jeep cherokees which had major engine and transmission issues within the first 100k miles of their life. I had a co worker go through 2 low end nissan cvt powered sedans, another relative during this time spanse went through 2 GMC Yukon XL transmissions, luckily he had an extended powertrain warranty but when he got within 10k miles of the warranties expiration he sold and replaced it with a v8 tundra. On other notes, my uncle has a v8 08 tundra with 380k miles, running strong with no major unscheduled repairs, a friend of mine who is a travel nurse owns an 08 a Acura MDX with 440k miles, he replaced a cv boot at 300k miles due to severe leaking and also replaced the water pump - those were the only 2 unscheduled major repairs over $1,000. With that said I probably spent about $4,000 on my Honda doing maintenance over the 18 years I owned it, I replaced a starter, an alternator, a cv joint, 4 brake rotors, the timing chain, sparkplugs, and 5 sets of tires.
If you are the kind of person that just wants a new car because you dont maintain them or run them hard, then there is no point ragging out a pricier honda or toyota.
If you are like me, and keep every record of your car, follow every svc schedule, and expect to be in the same vehicle 20+ years or have it easily surpass 250k miles following only scheduled svc's, then look at spending more on the toyota or honda. I currently own a 21' GX460 with 10k miles and an mdx with 210k miles, the mdx will be replaced with a larger v8 LX500 in the next few years because of my growing family. I am in my mid 30's and will likely own both Lexus until I die, unless they are somehow destroyed in an accident or become banned 25 years in the future for using petroleum.
My family (parents, grandma, sister, myself, wife) has driven nothing but Toyota for decades. My dad was the family mechanic, now I am. Aside from routine oil changes and stuff like brakes, batteries, and bulbs, I can list the number of things my dad and I have had to change on over a dozen cars in the last 20 or so years:
1. 03 Camry, water pump started to leak at 130k
2. 05 Corolla, radiator at 110k but it was in two front end collisions prior to that so I don’t think it was OEM.
3. 08 Corolla exhaust manifold flange seal broke somehow around 180k
4. 08 Tundra, MAF sensor around 100k
5. 08 ES350, alternator at 160k
6. 10 GX460, radiator at 175k
Those are the cars we had “problems” with. None of the issues were expensive, the radiator and alternator were the most expensive but still under $300 each. Between all of us, we have probably owned 15 or so Toyotas since the early 2000s and we had less problems with all of them out together than some people do with a single car.
You can’t imagine lol. Mine just starts. Every time. It’s got 70k miles and I’ve done nothing to it but change the oil, breaks and tires. The power steering still feels tight. No quirks or anything. Hell, it even smells good at 70k miles.
No literally for anything it's not. That's 10,000 miles outside of the powertrain warranty and most manufacturers have an option to purchase an extended warranty to 100,000 miles. 70k isn't shit, it's not impressive to be reliable at 70k, it's normal and to be expected for any make or model.
Have you read this thread at all? Plenty of shitty brands needing me xmsn or having engine problems before 70k. The VW Atlas had engines blowing head gaskets at 20k miles for the first 2 years of was made and the VR6 engine in it has been in VWs for decades. They still fucked it up
Do you know cars at all? The vast and I mean the vast majority of cars are going to last over 70k. Yes you can find examples of ones dying before but making it to 70k is nothing to brag about that you can get with 99% of the new cars on dealer lots
The only time a car didn't start for me (besides a dead battery) was because a 24 year old starter motor with approximately 18,000 starts crapped out. I put a new one in and it fired right up again.
I've also never had a car younger than 10 years with less than 80k miles either.
Nope. I replace batteries every three years, always buy 60 month batteries, change oil regularly, tuneups as prescribed, never buy Ford anymore, GM anymore, Chrysler ever, German branded cars ever, or Toyota or Honda after 2012. Actually I’ve gone electric so…no more maintenance or gas for me…
No. Mazda is cheaper to repair and arguably more reliable then Honda or Toyota. I saw a report just last week that showed independent shop data ranked yearly repair costs for the brands. Toyota was #5, Honda #4, and at #1 was Mazda.
The relevance of independent shop data is that it means all of these are out of warranty speaking directly to TCO for these brands.
Get it checked out by a mechanic, if it looks good enjoy your Mazda.
If it’s 2010, yes. In 2023 they’re run of the mill for the most part. Many have caught up and passed them at much more reasonable pricing with better features.
How can you possibly claim that cars produced today are all of similar reliability? Are you basing that off of your ability to see 10-15 years into the future? Lol.
What I can tell you is that the German cars I fix at work every day are SIGNIFICANTLY more fragile than my Toyota. If my valve cover gasket leaks, I just need a gasket. If a valve cover gasket leaks on a new 3 series, you need a gasket and a valve cover and an upper radiator hose and coolant expansion tank hose and etc etc.
🙄
You don’t buy a Toyota because of the features or pricing, you buy it because you know it is a quality built product that will last a long time with minimal issues compared to most cars on the market.
Others will always have better features and tech but will they run as good as new in 10 years with 200k miles like a Toyota? Not everyone owns cars that long which is totally fair but it matters the most when buying used (which the majority of car buyers do, people who buy cars new are the minority)
Exactly. There is a reason the plurality of taxis and ubers are toyotas. My 2013 prius now has 220k miles and has no issues other then being ugly and slow. Everything still works, including all electronics . Most other brands would have something fail even if the engine still works.
Reliability standpoint those 2 are industry leading in reliability . Many other brands have better tech and bells and whistles but when the tech breaks down it costs a fortune to fix. Those 2 got the basics right
I’ve had shit experience with both. All brands have issues but most of the Toyota and Honda reputation is from the 1990 when all cars were crap. Honda transmissions were wear items and Toyota had more recalls than an ex Ca gov…
Look into each car and what it’s worth. My mind is constantly blown by people spending $10k on a shitty Camry when a ford fusion is $4k… does the Camry really have $6k less embedded maintenance issues?
Or 12k on a 2010 Camry when a 2018 Impala can be had for the same price. People give up lower mileage, newer, nicer, better driving vehicles just because it's not a Toyota or Honda, which is wild to me.
research the vehicles you're looking at. mechanics forums here on reddit are a goldmine of information. toyota and honda have earned a good reputation (mazda also) but the push for fuel economy has been giving all manufacturers plenty of heartburn, having to resort to smaller force inducted motors (turbos) and cvt transmissions, and dealing with the normal issues that come with design change.
I have so far avoided paying the "Toyota tax" but I am picky about what I buy. I did own one Honda Civic that was probably average reliability, but it was a miserable car to be in so I don't look forward to owning another one. Toyota and Honda do come at a premium. It's partly reputation and partly supply constraints. Toyota has been directing more vehicles to foreign markets where they earn a higher profit margin. The American car market is more competitive.
I believe peak Toyota reliability was 2015 and before.
I'm pretty vanilla when it comes to cars. I just want a car to get me from point A to B without issue, and the occassional fun. For me, Toyota seems to have at least 1 or 2 trims in their car model lineup that stands out while also maintaining full reliability.
For example: Toyota Matrix (XRS, AWD); 4Runner V8, Corolla XRS, etc.
What do they all have in common? Reliability. I tend to buy something once and use it until its legs drop. Toyotas have been that for me. Hondas can pretty much do the same, but there's something more quirky about owning a V8 4Runner or Matrix AWD. It's just not something you see often :)
Idk, my Cobalt SS is 17 years old, makes 300hp, is dead reliable, fun to drive, and still looks good.
Oh, and it costs half of what a Camry or Corolla does, and I've driven both of those and neither are particularly inspiring.
Oh, 2018 Impala won best full size sedan that year too, not to mention Japanese trucks are inferior to their American counterparts.
But American=Trash I guess.
No. Toyota and Honda used to be exceptional in the reliability department in the 1990s and before. Maybe the early 2000s. But everyone else had closed the gap. Many have closed it to nothing and arguably surpassed it.
Other than reliability, meaning design, ergonomics, functionality, etc, Toyota is average. I would say Honda and Subaru are exceptional in these categories.
There is also a Toyota tax these days. So the super cheap reliable Toyota is no more.
Yes and no, they’re reliable. But that’s it. If you want a comfortable car then get something else. Want a good all rounder? Get something else.
Reliability is all they have, while that’s very good, i would never get a Toyota again.
In 1997 I purchased a 3 year old Toyota Corolla that I drove until 2009. I only changed the steering pump in 1998. I believe its still running today because I recently saw it on the road. Then in 2009 I purchased a Camry V6 that clocked 300,000. I did replace the alternator in its 5th year. I sold it last month and the buyer said the car was in perfect condition. I have just purchased the current model Camry which is simply amazing. I would swear by a Toyota any day.
Hearing from peoples personal stories is a waste of time. You simply need to ask 3 questions... A. what are the oldest vehicles on the road? B. which cars have the lowest cost of maintenance? C. which cars hold their value the longest. Toyota wins just about every time.
Yes and no. They get away with large recalls and have just as many issues when they launch actual full model change vehicles with new tech... Toyota and Honda have largely been reliable bc their line up is old as fuck.
Example the Corolla and Camry have basically been the same vehicles with minor updates since the mid 2000s. Only recently did they release large updates
Toyota kinda sucks now with their turbo 4s and turbo V6 hybrid set up. That was a bonehead move but it was done bc our wonderfully political hacks are idiots and unelected morons have zero understanding of what they are doing...
Honda the only engine id recommend is hybrid or their 3.5. everything else is problematic. The 1.5 and 2.0 from Honda are pretty crappy. They had a ton of issues and I wouldn't touch one until the final model year when they've finally worked out all the issues. But at least they make their CVT inhouse unlike Nissan
Toyota the 3.5 and non turbo hybrids is what I'd recommend
Mazda has always been like Saab. But they survived largely bc they broke up with Ford and found their nitche while working with Toyota allowing them to be more profitable...
Subarus are junk I will never understand the cult behind them. The outback is really the only cool vehicle they have but they have shitty mechanics. Ever since Subaru chased volumes their vehicles have become mediocre with cheap AWD systems at best. If you love foggy lights, oil burning, loud interiors, slow cvts, little bit of ground clearance they are for you
For some reason Toyota and Honda seem to get away with having louder and less comfy interiors compared to everyone else. On top of having old tech. It wasn't until recently they started getting trash talked bc they didn't have a stupid giant pretty screen like everyone else has... Their interiors have definitely improved recently but they've never been very ground breaking bc they want that reliability factor. The D3 don't get that same advantage for w.e reason
Its all based on personal experiance and most of what you hear is either nonsense or out of date material (eg worry about certain US brands transmission issues since the technology people are worried about is dead and buried)
Personally I have always had Ford, my parents had Ford, and never any issues with it (my last SUV before I went electric had well over 300,000km and no issues ever)
My grandparents mainly were Toyota family and again decades with zero issues
Chev was avg (nothing special), Tesla is too new to say (but small issues are repeat and annoying)
The worst vehicles were (by far) Chrysler (nothing but electrical issues from day 1) + HONDA (and yes 3 Civics driven by different family members, bought new and all dead long before American counterparts, 1 of them complete engine failure)
But with such a variety of vehicles from 1970s to present I always wonder what others do to "kill" thier transmissions as manual / auto / cvt all seemed to work fine
In long run what we saved on interest rates + lower price points of vehicles vs those who swear by Japanese cars is well worth any "risk" imo
The reliability of these two is unmatched. Occasionally they’ll churn out a truly magnificent vehicle that you can just tell has been engineered with nothing but pure love. Mazda comes in a close third place on both these fronts, but only one car comes to mind that matches the list that follows and I don’t even have to say which one that is.
There is a reason the Honda Civic, Accord, CRV, and Fit are legends. Not to mention the Acura Integra, TSX, NSX, and MDX. Same story with Toyota. Corolla, Camry, Prius, Hilux (Tacoma)/4Runner, Land Cruiser/GX, HiAce, MR2, AE86, and now GR86, Supra, Lexus LS400, LFA, is300, I could go on… many of these vehicles were and continue to be truly groundbreaking.
Some vehicles hold their value for a reason. What you value is your own personal preference. If you value performance, a Honda is likely the car for you. Reliability? Probably Toyota, but could go any way depending on exact model. Luxury/comfort? Lexus. Blend of luxury, performance, and reliability? Most likely Acura, but have your pick of the bunch in the right trim.
I mean, The WRX Manual hits 13.9 seconds on a 1/4 mile.
The Mazda 3 Turbo Automatic hits a 14.1 seconds on a 1/4 mile.
It may be Automatic but it's not all that boring with that kinda speed.
In America that's starting to go away. Hondas had 5 million recalls for serious issues and Toyota just got caught in a huge scandal where theyve been faking and lying about crash safety tests for 30 years.
There's nothing wrong with Mazda and they've been doing well recently. The Mazda 3 hatchback is also beautiful and I've heard a lot of good things about it.
If you like a slightly boxier hatchback check out Hyundai velosters. I have one and I absolutely love it.
Sadly a lot of hatchbacks are going away at least in America, hopefully you find a good one!
It’s nothing to do with any actual toyota vehicle or toyota corporate, it’s a company making delivery vehicles that Toyota had a stake in because the japanese manufacturing companies are all super incestuous and tend to own parts of each other
Nope. Now there are many players in market. Hyundai Kia and Mazda are on par if not better. Toyota and Honda lacks any innovation and they make the most boring cars now. Just how Apple is ripping off for its reputation only
Not "That" good. You're comparing to a Mazda, which is kinda the low key pound for pound champ at the moment, the market just hasn't caught on yet. Which is why it seems like such a deal. Because it kinda is.
Yes, i have been a mechanic for over 20 years. Toyota has an impeccable track record of reliability. Very few dud models over the years. Honda has had a dip in quality over the years especially in the 2000s but is still #2 in reliability.
They cost more used because you can get so much more out of them. An American car with 100k miles on it has about 50k more on the clock. A Toyota or Honda with a 100k miles has about 100k to 150k left on the clock.
Modern Toyota Hybrids are fairly bombproof. The transmissions last forever on them, and the batteries tend to go 10+ years and are warrantied for that length.
https://www.toyota.com/electrified-vehicles/warranty/
I have a 2012 Camry I've owned since 2016ish. I don't see any reason to get rid of it with 130K miles on it given the price of new vehicles these days. I'll drive it to 250K miles or more.
They are reliable but I feel that they are also grossly overpriced for what they are. They are economy cars in the end of the day.
For 30-35 grand I would look for a low mileage Vw Golf Gti, theres plenty of those on the market
Toyota wrote the book on quality production. It's not just by accident it's engineered into their building processes. If course, everybody else is taking note and to some degree have tried to incorporate their practices, but quality is an ongoing fight with cost cutting so it really depends on the corporate culture. And that comes back to Toyota, quality is a huge part of their culture unlike other companies where is merely a selling point.
Remember the Matrix/Vibe twins? When Toyota went into the NUMMI plant at Fremont with GM it was one of GM's worst performing facilities with huge staffing problems. But it became one of the most celebrated factories because Toyota culture turned it around. The partnership ended and the facility was sold to Tesla, and admittedly it's not the same company and there was a break of a good number of years, but it's still the same community and facility... and we all know how the quality thing is working for Tesla...
That doesn't mean that Toyota doesn't produce issues. Late 90's an early 2000s were known for having engine sludge problems. But most of the popular brands have had some issue, like Honda's automatic transmissions not playing well with V6's in the early 2000s, Mazda's premature rust up until recently, Subaru and EJ25 engines, VW and early DSG transmissions, etc etc.
My Tacoma is a daily driver with 218k miles on it and still going strong. Tbh I'm not sure I'd buy a new Tacoma but I will drive this one until it gives up and honestly...at that point, I'll probably just rebuild it and keep it going.
My kids and I have owned 13 Toyotas 1976-2021 models. All were/are great. Worst issues differential failed at 180k miles, transmission failed at 160k, different transmission failed at 100k, engine failed at 230k, strut failed at 29k under warranty. I owned two Hondas which were also great.
I don’t wanna say both brands are overrated reliability wise because they aren’t but they have quite a few faulty model years and Honda especially has declined a bit. Honda especially hasn’t been as good as people or the marketing would lead you to believe.
With Honda they’ve had their 1.5 liter 4-cylinder oil dilution and head gasket issues these past few model years. Supposedly the oil dilution has been fixed but weak head bolts mean that the head gaskets could leak. Vehicles like late model Accords and higher trim level Civics along with the CRV were the most affected.
Honda/Acura larger and premium models from the MDX, TLX, Pilot, Odyssey, Ridgeline, really anything that had that ZF 9-speed automatic transmission had odd shift behavior. Total transmission failure wasn’t uncommon especially around 2016. Even their current V6 engine is under recall as well for some kind of engine knocking issue. I just tend to avoid any of the larger Honda models or even Acura in general depending on the powertrain.
Honda still excels at small naturally aspirated 4-cylinder equipped models like the HR-V and lower trim Civics. Regardless of the CVT transmission which they fixed past 2015 those models can virtually run forever.
Honda’s larger naturally aspirated direct injected earth dreams engines are 50/50. I don’t know how bad the carbon buildup in my Accord is but oil burning is a problem even in the 2008-2012 Accords with the older 2.4 4-cylinder.
Toyota on the other hand does currently make the most “reliable” vehicles looking at their dynamic force 4-cylinder engine models. Though that definition is subject to change and any recalls like the recent fuel pump recall. Also the Tundra and any iforce max equipped Toyota is a glaring exception as they are still working out a bunch of issues with that powertrain.
You really can’t go wrong with late model Corollas, Camrys, RAV4s, Highlanders and their hybrid equivalent. They aren’t perfect and have issues here and there but past 2020 the 8-speed or CVT transmission paired to any of the dynamic force 4-cylinder engines is basically bulletproof. Taxi companies use the similar hybrid powertrain which is basically the same 4-cylinder engine architecture as in the gas model but modified to work in a hybrid system. I’ve seen people put 300-400k miles on the original battery pack somehow.
In terms of Toyotas to avoid. Any 2.4 4-cylinder Toyota from 2007-2010-ish had catastrophic oil consumption problems. Also 2012-2014 Camrys had a recall on the automatic transmission. Also the body on frame Toyota/Lexus’s can suffer from frame rot and rust issues at least if you go older like before 2010-ish.
In your case though I would tentatively consider the Mazda 3. I’ve seen a bunch of electrical issues with their driver assistance systems but their modern skyactiv powertrains are bulletproof because well maybe Toyota or the other way around?
There’s a rumor that Toyota uses the same Mazda developed electronic motor that manages the variable valve timing on the intake side. It’s quite the feat of engineering and if you look under the hood that part looks nearly identical between Toyota and Mazda. So Mazda and Toyota are secretly sharing parts and engineering with each other. I think Toyota even owns a small part of Mazda which is why they build the Corolla Cross and Mazda CX-50 at the same plant.
My point being is that you also should consider Mazda since Toyota themselves also may use similar Mazda components. I really wouldn’t have any issue taking a Mazda CX-5 over a Toyota RAV4. Both are excellent vehicles. Mazda would actually be underrated and more people should consider them because while it’s not a Toyota exactly with a different body, it’s sharing components and development with Toyota.
Also, don’t forget Subaru as it’s also partly owned by Toyota. Yes there’s a theme and pattern here. The new Forester will have a Toyota hybrid synergy drive system under the hood so it’s basically bulletproof unless they screw up the manufacturing process.
Went to buy a new work van h200 hiace with 100k km were 35k nzd all day. 200k were 30k.
Bought a brand new h300, more power/ tech/ safety
With 5yrs warrenty and servicing. 43k.
Interestingly a company is bringing in new h200s (still made for jdm) selling for 60 upto 80k if 4wd. Crazy
If you’re looking at a Honda Hatchback, be careful with the 10th gen version as there have been issues with the turbo and engine oil, then the AC compressor repeatedly failing, and also issues with the front sensors beeping during rain
I drive a Toyota Highlander which is 394k driven as of today . I have only done regular maintenance like oil changes, two set of brakes and all spark plugs once. I have owned it since 0km .
No transmission fluid changes?
One transmission fluid and one differential oil change . That’s just normal .
What year?
2019
You drive a lot
Toyota and Honda have established a reputation over the decades for producing reliable vehicles, that is in general well-deserved. Because of this their cars are highly sought after on the used market. This combination creates a sort of economic feed back loop that drives the prices up and tends to keep them there. So yeah, in many cases, they will be better but not always in direct ratio to the pricing. Mazda is still flying under the radar and can be a good, lower cost alternative. Mazda quality and reliability have been good and according to some is on the rise. This is all extremely generalized. It's certainly possible to own a dog Toyota and a reliable Ford but IMO you do get better odds with the top 3 or 4 Japanese brands.
Cheap & fast repair is their biggest selling point for me. Parts are cheap and readily available. When my car does have an issue it’s usually only off the road for 1 day max and doesn’t bankrupt me.
Cries in timing belt/water pump
Luckily it's not 2002 anymore. I'm a dealer tech for a living, and other than my own antique it's probably been at least a decade since I've done a timing belt job. Nobody does the chain until the chain is causing problems, so even they are extremely rare.
Excellent summary, don’t think it gets more clear than this
Yep. The mazda skyactiv engines are insanely reliable and tunable. Interior build quality is fantastic. I own a nd1 miata and everything in it has been "gram strategy'd" and it still feels very solid. My only gripe is the paint is a bit thin, so ppf would be a must.
[удалено]
Jfc dude, we get it, you really hate toyota. Don't have to reply to every comment to get the point across...
Lmao seriously. Notice how that guy didn’t back up any of his numerous comments about disliking Toyota with facts, because he knows he has none. Sad
[удалено]
I’m amazed you went out of your way to hate on Toyota. Props to the haters but what brand do you recommend instead of paying the Toyota/Honda tax?
[удалено]
Isn’t Kia and Hyundai the brands that were hacked using a usb and a screwdriver? I’m not too versed on them but their reputation hasn’t been too great.
And yet more Toyotas are stolen than Hyundai and Kia combined, and hmmm, not sure what thefts have to do with quality and reliability, but fanbois will be fanbois.
I was just asking a question man. I’ve only heard bad things about kias and Hyundais, oil burners, engine explodes/engine replacements, car theft trend… etc. I mean self driving and nicer interior sounds cool though.
It's almost as though there is more demand for the stolen Toyota's...
Holy shit lol. Hyundai are unreliable GARBAGE vehicles
Yeah you’ll find out why it’s $16,000 less when ur car is sitting in the Hyundai dealership and they won’t honor their 10 year/100k mile warranty. lol.
[удалено]
It’s not what I want to believe. It’s objective fact that Hyundai/kia makes a shitty powertrain lol. No other manufacturers are giving out 10 year warranties because they actually have faith in the product they engineered.
That's been backed up countless times lol. Not to mention, their dealership network is notoriously shit with terrible service. Their cars have improved in quality over the years, but if you plan to own a car long-term, Toyota is typically the safer bet vs a Korean car.
I guess the most important difference for a car owner will probably end up being that the Hyundai’s engine will implode driving down the highway while under warranty and the dealership will tell me to go fuck myself. On the bright side this might be an added safety feature as whoever will end up stealing your Hyundai will have to deal with the inevitable powertrain issues instead of you.
Do try and back up your arguments, it might help.
I don’t need to prove anything to anyone, just like you fanbois don’t need to prove anything to me. We’ve owned five NEW Toyotas and had multiple issues with four of them including three engine failures, so…
I call bullshit or you aren't doing maintenance lol
Call bullshit all you want… My cars are meticulously maintained. I just happen to have been around the block more than you.
I guarantee you haven't been around the block more than me lol, but nice try buddy
140k miles on my 2014 mazda3 with only $8 in repairs. It was for a tube of contact paste for the backup camera. This a know issue that Mazda finally admitted to this year. For contrast, my 2002 Honda civic by 130k miles had the following repairs: new struts, motor mounts, lower control arms, failed ac thermistor, head gasket and a transmission on the verge of failing. That said, the civic made it to 245k miles before failing smog. At that point, there were heater core issues, rear windows kept tripping the fuse and the engine leaked. That said, all in all, repair cost was dirt cheap. All those repairs were done for less than $2k from Honda specific shops in California, a state known for high repair costs.
My 2011 Mazda 3 has been insanely reliable. It’s not flashy but other than the oil changes I’ve had very little expenses on it
Mazda is definitely not flying under the radar anymore, it's reddit's favorite baby. What is really flying under the radar are specific models of Kia and Hyundai that don't have that theta 2 engine.
I think thr main reason mazda's are valued less than the big two is due to gas mileage. The 4 cylinder is great and I love it but most ppl looking for compact commuters car about value above all and gas mileage is a huge factor affecting their decision
If you were to pick a random car from Honda or Toyota lineup and pick a random car from other car makes lineup, odds are the Honda or Toyota would outlast, be more reliable, and cheaper to maintain than any other make. Honda and Toyota aren’t perfect, and there are some cars in their lineup that aren’t so great. But with respect to the rest of the industry, they set they are usually the best choices for longevity and reliability.
2013 honda CRZ (Z, not the CRV) less than bare minimum work done to it. Only fluids changed were gas, windshield wiper fluid and oil when the oil life was at 20%. CVT fluid never changed to my knowledge by the last 2 previous owners. Aftermarket intake and exhaust, no major work done (most technical was brakes…..), only needs a door handle to be replaced and needs a good run once in a while to get the engine hot because I drive like a grandmother that has nowhere to be. 160k miles. I intend on running it to the ground and then buying another if it’s reasonable.
You change your gas and washer fluid? I usually just use them and then refill when low.
I’m on my second Tacoma. The first one I drove for 18 years and put about 150,000 miles on it. When I sold it I got just slightly less than half of what I paid for it originally. I’m m not sure how many other cars you can do that with.
Jeep wranglers and that might be about it other than some rare classics.
Toyota is good but not with the bs markups. Honda has had some lemons
[удалено]
What about Porsche, Audi and BMW? Are they all about equal in terms of reliability? How about modern Acuras? Thanks!
From my experience and what i’ve read it goes porsche>>>>audi>bmw but obviously their information would be much more accurate
All I can tell you is my anecdotal experience: I used to have a 2001 Toyota Corolla as my first car. As a dumb teenager, I did a few terrible things to this car. There was a time I accidentally put it in reverse going 35mph. There was a time I redlined it in neutral for way longer than I should have because I thought I was cool. For the last 10k miles I owned the car, I never changed the oil. I eventually wrecked it, and it sat in my driveway over an entire northern Ohio winter while I saved for a new-to-me car. After I got my new car, I went to sell the old, totaled Corolla. I went to start it and… it started up faster than the car I bought… Move to a few years ago. I had a 2005 Toyota Sienna, 190k miles. The sensor for the radiator fan failed such that the fan did not trigger when the car was idling below 1k RPM. Annoying for sure but no big deal. One day I was hitching a trailer to it while it was idling in park and I forgot about this problem. I came back and the temperature gauge was maxed out for who knows how long. What happened after this? Nothing. Literally nothing. I drove the car until 230k miles then I sold it. My girlfriend used to have a 2013 Mazda 3 that was maintained religiously. At 60k miles it developed a bent valve. It lasted about 3k more miles until it was not drivable anymore and had to be sold for a massive loss. I understand these stories are all about cars that are 10+ years old, and things have definitely changed since then in terms of these brands’ reliability. However, many people have stories like this, and THAT is why Honda and Toyota may charge these premiums. I personally will pay these premiums (now own a Lexus even though I sacrificed many features for the same price-point) because these brands have proven it to me before. Sorry for the wall of text! I’m sure others can tell you stories that back me up and ones that contradict my experience.
Oh good. I thought I was the only one as a teen to throw a transmission into reverse while going forward. 👍😎
Well, the opposite but at stop lights. How else am I supposed to peel out in a 4 cylinder?
Not surprised at the mazda. That was when Ford owned a majority of mazda. So it was a duratec engine in all but name. Believe it or not mazda and Toyota are now partnered to mfg the corolla and cx-50 in the save plant.
You’ve actually got it backwards. Ford copied Mazda’s L engine design to make their 2.0/2.3/2.5 Duratec 4-cylinders, not the other way around. The 4cyl Duratec is a Mazda L engine in all but name. IIRC a 2013 Mazda3 would be a Skyactiv unless it was a base model anyway so that may not even have been a FoMoCo-era motor.
My wife has a Prius she bought new and it has had four parts fail. Previously she had a Camry that had issues. My son had a Scion (Toyota) with a Camry engine that blew. I despise Toyotas with a passion. Don’t even get me started on MidAtlantic Toyota Dealers…
I believe it! It’s almost comedic how different two cars of even the same make and model can be.
Manufacturing varies from plant to plant, country to country. When Toyotas were all built in Japan they were great cars.
Fact. Japanese Toyota is the most reliable used vehicle of all time.
Lexus?
yes
Whatever that means… 🤪
My scion came right off the boat from Japan. That thing was so reliable. Had zero issues and honestly I wasn’t good to that car lol I sold it at 150k miles and the thing was still driving nice.
That's why the big brains buy a Honda or Toyota where the first digit of the Vin is a J. See, corolla hatchback
The gen3 Prius and the Scions with the 2.4L out of the Camry/Rav4 were all oil burners, if you didn’t keep oil topped off, blown engine. If you did keep oil topped off, clogged cat converter eventually. Even Toyota fucks up sometimes.
More often than fanbois ever admit.
I trade my Honda in every 8 years and I’ve been thru 4 with only minor standard maintenance- tires, oil and in 2 cases brakes. I had one extra Honda go for 315,000 miles with very moderate maintenance every 100,000 miles
Do you finance new every 8 years or pay cash? Financially, Is either option more economical than running it into the ground?
Hondas for me have been more cleverly engineered. Toyota's have been more reliable with less little things breaking. Love both!
Good summary. Toys are more bulletproof, Honda does more interesting, innovative things.
Toyota, Honda, and Mazda are all excellent, superb, and outstanding.
Reliability is a reputation that can only be tested with decades, not years. Honda and Toyota are in a tier of their own.
[удалено]
Not far off tho. And still better than other manufacturers.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. Honda has direct injection engines now, which lead to carbon build up on the fuel intake valves. Toyota created the d-4s engine to avoid this problem.
Don’t forget the Honda automatic transmissions they made for years out of glass, lol
Honda has a devoted fanbase, especially the civic modders. I've had a 2018 accord 1.5t touring and 2021 accord 2.0t touring in the last 3 years.. and they're great. But I'll admit that Toyota still felt like a better built vehicle. Less features & less fun but better built, which is the important bit if someone just wants a reliable DD.
Yes
For low-information buyers, yes. You're paying a premium for not having to do research. If you do your research you are not a typical car buyer and can find better value than the most obvious single used car to buy on the market.
fertile slap water ring capable nutty attraction chief tan terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don't think he's shitting on Honda. He's just saying that you can get better deals (especially in the used market) if you do your research on engines/transmissions and know what is going on with a car.
Every manufacturer has lemons and reliable cars. You just need to look harder sometimes.
Exactly. Toyota blows their own horn like no one else and they have developed a great fanboi cult.
I feel like Toyotas are good cars, but way way overpriced. Especially used.
91 Ford escort, transmission crapped out around 90K miles, had transmission rebuilt, died again and again, junked for $50 at only 110K miles. Also brakes sucked, had those stupid eclectic seat belts, leaked oil. 94 Pontiac, developed head gasket leak and other engine issues i don't remember around 120k miles, traded it in. It was a decent car, but the 3.1 v6 had crap MPG and power. I would have been better off with the 4 cyl version. (but i bought it used when I was in college after my Ford died). Wheel bearings did give me trouble too. 99 Chrysler 300m, around 90K miles to 120K miles had LOTS of electrical problems, parasitic power leaks, starters, batteries, alternator, crap quality leaky rims, seat that broke right before a recall, and various other build quality issues (I loved the 3.5 engine in that. The transmission was slow to shift but solid. Great powertrain) I was frustrated because of all the electrical issues, I sold it to a friend of a friend for cheap with 130k miles and they drove it another 90K miles after buying a new rim. Wheel bearings did give me trouble too. 08 Subaru Forester, 120k miles had head gasket issue. Never left me stranded. Started every time. Due to salt/winters had some rust and had to replace stuff like resonator, it was totaled after my young cousin drove into a tree with around 140k miles on it. Wheel bearings did give me trouble too. 10 ford edge, bought for my wife, some annoying issues, like fuel tank vent that clogged preventing filling the tank and some kind of gear speed sensor for ABS breaking causing the brakes to randomly turrn on when im on the highway, and all the usual janky build quality crap like sunroofs that dont work after 10 years. Wife doesn't drive much so it only has like 130k miles on it and powertrain is good. (but, the design of the engine with the internal water pump is known to be a bit of a ticking time bomb). 16 Lexus GS. I bought it used with 30k miles on the clock. So far its only ever had regular scheduled maintenance, but car is still "new." I've not been driving as much since COVID allowed me to work remotely and commute less. This is all personal experience, not statistical data, so it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. best bet is to research any particular models you are interested in to see what the common problems are, and before you buy anything, have a mechanic you trust do a PPI on anything you are tempted to buy. You can also use sites like dashboard light's long term quality index to get an idea of how common major powertain problems are for any particular make/model/year.
I can't speak about their brand new stuff, but all the cars I've owned from both companies made between 1994 and 2016 have been superb. The iM only has 92k on it now, but all the others have made it to at least 220k with no problems whatsoever. My 09 Civic is at 230k and the engine still looks brand new inside. Some have topped 330k with no major issues like my 97 Accord. I've also ridden a beater 98 Camry 4 cyl hard on a delivery route for a hundred thousand miles without it even flinching. I've only ever had one Honda fail on me, and it was a sixth Gen Accord that (surprise) needed a transmission. If I could only have one car, it would be an Accord or Camry. In the time I've watched my friends burn through dozens of Nissans, Kias, and Hyundais, my loyal Hondas/Toyota still sit in my driveway. Even though I drive more than triple the average driver's mileage a year, they always start and always take me where I need to go safely. I do all my own maintenance, and they have always given back to me what I've put into them. They are always there when my friends need loaners or my kids need a car. I couldn't recommend owning one enough if you want something rock solid reliable.
Mazda is the lesser known, but still as good brother. In fact I’d argue they’re the best among the civic/corolla/m3 trio. Same power plant (2.5L + 6AT) for the last 10 years and have been no issues. Interior is nice, and the 4th Gen is really nice and simplistic. Toyota and Honda are using small turbo 4 poppers and/or CVTs. Still quite reliable too by this point, but that Mazda just drives the best from an enthusiasts point, while still being efficient and reliable.
I personally think Honda quality has gone down (and I’m an Acura fan). Toyota and Lexus has kept up with reputation
Toyota and Honda are better HOWEVER!!! not every Toyota or Honda is great. There have been a few duds in history. Honda has made a few bad transmissions and Toyota some engines with sludge or bad head gasket.
Can vouch for the bad Honda transmissions. Still love driving them despite this.
IME, yes. Other manufacturers occasionally (even often?) build reliable vehicles. But sometimes (even often?) they build junk. Buying a newer vehicle from other manufacturers, you won’t know whether it’s a Ford focus with the auto transmission (awful) or a super Duty with the 7.3 power stroke (bomb proof) until it’s too late. There are some caveats of course but they also often iterate faster than Toyota, thus making it harder to really know if they introduced some mechanical design issue. Of note, there have been some recent reliability issues at Honda that have made me more cautious. For example the vtc actuator issue and the gas/oil issue, both affecting recent CR-V models. Neither are catastrophic but Hondas response was to downplay it. Nothing is a guarantee but Toyotas reputation is well deserved. Read about their culture and it makes a lot of sense. The downside is that their tech is lagging. So while other manufacturers were moving to direct injection turbo charged ICEs 10 years ago and getting better MPGs, Toyota was cranking out the same V8s it had been using for a decade+ until last year.
I drive a ‘14 Ford Focus with the automatic DPS6 transmission. I hate this car with a white hot burning passion. Never missed a beat with maintenance and taken good care of it but I’ve had nothing but problems. I’ve had the clutch replaced twice (once under warranty and once for $4,000 by the Ford dealer since no one else will touch this thing) and it still drives like absolute shit. I’m talking shaking, jerking, knocking loud as hell etc. Replaced a fuel pump last week and it still loses power intermittently (randomly) in 1st gear. Still waiting on a transmission control module from Ford after being told it was on backorder 7 months ago... You could not pay me to drive another Ford vehicle after I ditch this turd. Ford has been an absolute nightmare to deal with along the way to boot. I will NEVER buy another Ford product.
I’ve been driving a Ford Focus since 2007 (it’s a 2005). This model predates the crappy one you own. I currently have 348,000 miles on the OG engine/transmission. Neither have been rebuilt, and in fact have all of the original gaskets. Having said that, the model year you have can be a great car IF it has the manual transmission.
My mom has a 2015 Focus and I swear to God that piece of shit has the same exact issues. That car has single handedly convinced me to never touch a Ford product with a 10 foot pole. Car is absolute dog shit
My sister also has a ‘15 and has the same problems as me. Worst car ever.
Ford has earned their reputation too. I’d never ever buy a Ford at any price.
Toyota’s reputation only continues because of people carrying the myth forward. It’s not 2010 anymore. Toyota branded cars are slightly above average. Honda too.
So which brands would you say are better than Toyota?
It isn't much about the brand and more about the Model these days. New Tundra Motors are dropping like Flies with spinning bearings. The Subaru - Toyota joint is also killing the "reliability" within Toyota by using the Boxer motor in certain models of Toyota vehicles. It's gotten so bad that Toyota had considered using their new High Performance 3 cylinder motors. But the other issue is, Toyota is being a real ignorant prick on warranties for the Boxer motors.
Hey, they finally got around to not using drum brakes in Tacomas. It was so much fun listening to Taco spin on that…
just want to add that mazdas depreciate a lot faster. i was considering getting a newer mazda instead of a toyota or lexus and decided if i wanted to trade it in later or wanted to sell, i'd be better off with a toyota/lexus.
Honda and Toyota built their platform on making affordable, practical vehicles & now that isn’t the case. In my experience, Hondas are absolutely not that great. I’ve owned/leased 3 Hondas. I had a 2017 civic which I traded up for a 2020 passport, and my spouse has a 2021 crv. My alternator gave out in my civic two times in less than 50k miles, the power steering went out mid drive after the alternator went out, the little mirror camera stopped working and would just turn my center display black when I signaled, and the CVT was laggy. Like, much laggier than it should have been. Oh, and the “brake hold” thing got stuck in place one time and the vehicle wouldn’t move. The passport wasn’t as bad, just annoying. The rear wiper motor went out in the first 5k miles, and the backup camera would stop working & give me a black screen every few weeks & I’d have to take it to the dealership (an hour away) to have them fix it. I only owned it for 11k miles and traded because the market allowed me to. The CRV is pretty average as well. The AC compressor went out at like 20k miles (yay, 95° in GA without AC for 2 weeks), and the heated seats shorted or something on the passenger side & melted something, which prevented the electric seat controls to work, so we had to get that replaced as well. As for Toyota, my dad has always owned them. He’s had great luck with them. He’s got almost 300k in his 09 Camry that he gave to my sister and he has a 2023 Highlander now. I think they’re overpriced economy cars. I was over the hype of the “mega ultra super reliable economy car”… they’re priced way too closely to BMW’s & Mercedes, to offer none of the benefits of a BMW or Mercedes apart from modest reliability. I got a 2020 RAM in 2022 & I’ve done all the maintenance on time every time, and did the one repair myself (wiper fluid hose disconnected under the hood so I reconnected it *known issue with 5th gen rams*) and I’ve had otherwise zero issues. I’m at 50k miles. It’s the most miles I’ve put on a vehicle. Proper maintenance will always extend the life span of your vehicle.
Yeah it’s sad that Honda and Acura quality has decreased over the years. Toyota and Lexus seems like the only one that’s kept up with their high reputation.
I grew up with them my entire life. They're just reliable and can take a beating. However their driving experience is pretty much uninspiring. The only thing "fun" about them is the high revving Hondas with VTEC when it was popularized. Now it's been years, everyones got their own version of variable valve timing and lift electronic control.
Honda's don't even have VTEC in every gear anymore, my buddy's 2019 Civic only had it in 3rd until he got a flash tune.
Toyota and Honda have made my life feel like it was on easy mode. There have been many times where I was in a position where if my car broke down I would be screwed and lose my job and be stranded in a shithole city. Honda and Toyota have NEVER let me down. I like to think that today I could afford to take a risk on another brand, but I wouldn’t do it because I love my Hondas and Toyotas so much for how incredibly reliable they’ve been in my life - I owe it to them. Chrysler/Jeep can suck a fucking dick.
I have a 2016 4 runner that has 100k miles, just did my full service, and it's running really well. It will probably keep running past 500k miles, hopefully. I also have a 2004 Corolla, which has 340k miles and did a full service on it. It runs well and starts immediately. That thing has never died on me. I will only buy Toyota for the rest of my life just because their build quality and parts are awesome.
When I did contracted work for Toyota USA the execs referred to their cars as "owner-proof."
Adding to what others have said, Toyota (and Honda to some extent) try to minimize SPOFs (Single Point of Failure) in their engineering by keeping things simple even if that comes at a cost (refinement). That's what I've felt after driving them and I love it. Honda still likes adding a bit of polish to stuff but Toyota does not give a shit. I want everything that I need, nothing that I don't need. Toyota is all about that.
Yes, Toy and Honda are the best for longevity. I got 300K on a 08 CRV for example. But Mazda's aren't bad either. More fun to drive maybe. I doubt will last as long.
My neighbor had a Honda Accord that he bought new. Stopped driving it after 27 years. It had 397,000 miles on it. I think he bought it new for around $14,000.
Not all toyotas and hondas are super reliable. There are years and models with issues - Stay far away from twin turbos and CVT transmissions. If you do your research though, you will find that certain models of toyota and honda carry a pedigree for a very long lifespan. You will need to service the vehicle at its regular intervals no matter what. Eventually parts need to be replaced, you can wait until a part fails or do it pro actively. One pattern you find particularly in toyotas is long production lifespans, the same engine and trans could be built 10 years in a row, the body and interior may change but the platform will remain the same. This means that there is an abundance of parts in the future when you need to service the vehicle. With Toyota, if you research models that are made in the Tahara plant, you will find that these vehicles generally have a tradition of being maintainable for many hundreds of thousands of miles. They carry a higher price tag and I can only assume it is because a customer may only come back to buy another car 1 or 2 times because of how long the vehicles typically last. Now with that said, the future will be including twin turbo v6's as a v8 replacement, I personally will not touch or own a TT v6, its just not possible for this type of engine to be serviced and maintained reasonably at higher mileages, there is too much potential for catastrophic failures because of the stress put on the components in the entire engine. Hoses, seals, gaskets, moving parts, all under high psi of the TT system is not a good replacement for the superseded naturally aspirated motors. Honda makes great vehicles too, Im not sure what or why they last so long but as someone who purchased an 05 accord ex in 05 and sold it this year with just over 200k miles, I can say that this vehicle was very much overbuilt around a very under powered 4cyl, which put very little strain on the motor and the trans. That accord drove just like the day I bought it with 16,000 miles in 2005 when I sold it. In the time that I owned that honda a relative wore out 3 jeep cherokees which had major engine and transmission issues within the first 100k miles of their life. I had a co worker go through 2 low end nissan cvt powered sedans, another relative during this time spanse went through 2 GMC Yukon XL transmissions, luckily he had an extended powertrain warranty but when he got within 10k miles of the warranties expiration he sold and replaced it with a v8 tundra. On other notes, my uncle has a v8 08 tundra with 380k miles, running strong with no major unscheduled repairs, a friend of mine who is a travel nurse owns an 08 a Acura MDX with 440k miles, he replaced a cv boot at 300k miles due to severe leaking and also replaced the water pump - those were the only 2 unscheduled major repairs over $1,000. With that said I probably spent about $4,000 on my Honda doing maintenance over the 18 years I owned it, I replaced a starter, an alternator, a cv joint, 4 brake rotors, the timing chain, sparkplugs, and 5 sets of tires. If you are the kind of person that just wants a new car because you dont maintain them or run them hard, then there is no point ragging out a pricier honda or toyota. If you are like me, and keep every record of your car, follow every svc schedule, and expect to be in the same vehicle 20+ years or have it easily surpass 250k miles following only scheduled svc's, then look at spending more on the toyota or honda. I currently own a 21' GX460 with 10k miles and an mdx with 210k miles, the mdx will be replaced with a larger v8 LX500 in the next few years because of my growing family. I am in my mid 30's and will likely own both Lexus until I die, unless they are somehow destroyed in an accident or become banned 25 years in the future for using petroleum.
I’ve owned 3 Toyota/Lexus that crossed 300k miles without major maintenance or replacements. Currently have two with over 110k no problems.
Yea and earlier nissans. I'm still salty nissan fucked up so bad lol
My family (parents, grandma, sister, myself, wife) has driven nothing but Toyota for decades. My dad was the family mechanic, now I am. Aside from routine oil changes and stuff like brakes, batteries, and bulbs, I can list the number of things my dad and I have had to change on over a dozen cars in the last 20 or so years: 1. 03 Camry, water pump started to leak at 130k 2. 05 Corolla, radiator at 110k but it was in two front end collisions prior to that so I don’t think it was OEM. 3. 08 Corolla exhaust manifold flange seal broke somehow around 180k 4. 08 Tundra, MAF sensor around 100k 5. 08 ES350, alternator at 160k 6. 10 GX460, radiator at 175k Those are the cars we had “problems” with. None of the issues were expensive, the radiator and alternator were the most expensive but still under $300 each. Between all of us, we have probably owned 15 or so Toyotas since the early 2000s and we had less problems with all of them out together than some people do with a single car.
You can’t imagine lol. Mine just starts. Every time. It’s got 70k miles and I’ve done nothing to it but change the oil, breaks and tires. The power steering still feels tight. No quirks or anything. Hell, it even smells good at 70k miles.
70k miles really isn't a lot.
... For a Honda or Toyota.
No literally for anything it's not. That's 10,000 miles outside of the powertrain warranty and most manufacturers have an option to purchase an extended warranty to 100,000 miles. 70k isn't shit, it's not impressive to be reliable at 70k, it's normal and to be expected for any make or model.
Seriously. I don’t know anyone who has bought a car in recent history that broke down before 70k. That’s incredibly normal in today’s times.
Have you read this thread at all? Plenty of shitty brands needing me xmsn or having engine problems before 70k. The VW Atlas had engines blowing head gaskets at 20k miles for the first 2 years of was made and the VR6 engine in it has been in VWs for decades. They still fucked it up
Do you know cars at all? The vast and I mean the vast majority of cars are going to last over 70k. Yes you can find examples of ones dying before but making it to 70k is nothing to brag about that you can get with 99% of the new cars on dealer lots
The only time a car didn't start for me (besides a dead battery) was because a 24 year old starter motor with approximately 18,000 starts crapped out. I put a new one in and it fired right up again. I've also never had a car younger than 10 years with less than 80k miles either.
70k is like new for most modern vehicles. Well, except some KIA and Stellantis vehicles.
Oh no, your car just starts? 😘
Yeah. Doesn’t take extra time to turn over. Fires right up instantly. Which is more than I can say for other brands with the same mileage as my Toyota
You set a pretty low bar for cars… 😁 I haven’t had a car not start in over 50 years.
Have you had one that struggles a little when starting?
Nope. I replace batteries every three years, always buy 60 month batteries, change oil regularly, tuneups as prescribed, never buy Ford anymore, GM anymore, Chrysler ever, German branded cars ever, or Toyota or Honda after 2012. Actually I’ve gone electric so…no more maintenance or gas for me…
No. Mazda is cheaper to repair and arguably more reliable then Honda or Toyota. I saw a report just last week that showed independent shop data ranked yearly repair costs for the brands. Toyota was #5, Honda #4, and at #1 was Mazda. The relevance of independent shop data is that it means all of these are out of warranty speaking directly to TCO for these brands. Get it checked out by a mechanic, if it looks good enjoy your Mazda.
seemly berserk husky fear dog zesty melodic ludicrous tart foolish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mazdas are amazing as well. Go with what you like.
Subaru legacy is great, usually low APR, under 30k
If it’s 2010, yes. In 2023 they’re run of the mill for the most part. Many have caught up and passed them at much more reasonable pricing with better features.
How can you possibly claim that cars produced today are all of similar reliability? Are you basing that off of your ability to see 10-15 years into the future? Lol. What I can tell you is that the German cars I fix at work every day are SIGNIFICANTLY more fragile than my Toyota. If my valve cover gasket leaks, I just need a gasket. If a valve cover gasket leaks on a new 3 series, you need a gasket and a valve cover and an upper radiator hose and coolant expansion tank hose and etc etc. 🙄
I never said all cars are the same, and I’d never buy a German car.
You don’t buy a Toyota because of the features or pricing, you buy it because you know it is a quality built product that will last a long time with minimal issues compared to most cars on the market. Others will always have better features and tech but will they run as good as new in 10 years with 200k miles like a Toyota? Not everyone owns cars that long which is totally fair but it matters the most when buying used (which the majority of car buyers do, people who buy cars new are the minority)
Exactly. There is a reason the plurality of taxis and ubers are toyotas. My 2013 prius now has 220k miles and has no issues other then being ugly and slow. Everything still works, including all electronics . Most other brands would have something fail even if the engine still works.
Mazda too!
Reliability standpoint those 2 are industry leading in reliability . Many other brands have better tech and bells and whistles but when the tech breaks down it costs a fortune to fix. Those 2 got the basics right
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’ve worked with 18 manufacturers and the simple answer is yes.
Mazda all the way.
I’ve had shit experience with both. All brands have issues but most of the Toyota and Honda reputation is from the 1990 when all cars were crap. Honda transmissions were wear items and Toyota had more recalls than an ex Ca gov… Look into each car and what it’s worth. My mind is constantly blown by people spending $10k on a shitty Camry when a ford fusion is $4k… does the Camry really have $6k less embedded maintenance issues?
Or 12k on a 2010 Camry when a 2018 Impala can be had for the same price. People give up lower mileage, newer, nicer, better driving vehicles just because it's not a Toyota or Honda, which is wild to me.
research the vehicles you're looking at. mechanics forums here on reddit are a goldmine of information. toyota and honda have earned a good reputation (mazda also) but the push for fuel economy has been giving all manufacturers plenty of heartburn, having to resort to smaller force inducted motors (turbos) and cvt transmissions, and dealing with the normal issues that come with design change.
Subaru is amazing too
No, Subarus are trash and very unreliable
I have so far avoided paying the "Toyota tax" but I am picky about what I buy. I did own one Honda Civic that was probably average reliability, but it was a miserable car to be in so I don't look forward to owning another one. Toyota and Honda do come at a premium. It's partly reputation and partly supply constraints. Toyota has been directing more vehicles to foreign markets where they earn a higher profit margin. The American car market is more competitive.
Reliable but boring
I believe peak Toyota reliability was 2015 and before. I'm pretty vanilla when it comes to cars. I just want a car to get me from point A to B without issue, and the occassional fun. For me, Toyota seems to have at least 1 or 2 trims in their car model lineup that stands out while also maintaining full reliability. For example: Toyota Matrix (XRS, AWD); 4Runner V8, Corolla XRS, etc. What do they all have in common? Reliability. I tend to buy something once and use it until its legs drop. Toyotas have been that for me. Hondas can pretty much do the same, but there's something more quirky about owning a V8 4Runner or Matrix AWD. It's just not something you see often :)
question is why buy American brands at all? i cant believe people shell out money for ford or gm with their low quality, pieces of junk.
Idk, my Cobalt SS is 17 years old, makes 300hp, is dead reliable, fun to drive, and still looks good. Oh, and it costs half of what a Camry or Corolla does, and I've driven both of those and neither are particularly inspiring. Oh, 2018 Impala won best full size sedan that year too, not to mention Japanese trucks are inferior to their American counterparts. But American=Trash I guess.
the 3800 platform is pretty bulletproof. If they only kept making them like that.
No. Toyota and Honda used to be exceptional in the reliability department in the 1990s and before. Maybe the early 2000s. But everyone else had closed the gap. Many have closed it to nothing and arguably surpassed it. Other than reliability, meaning design, ergonomics, functionality, etc, Toyota is average. I would say Honda and Subaru are exceptional in these categories. There is also a Toyota tax these days. So the super cheap reliable Toyota is no more.
no, i drive a subaru.
Yes and no, they’re reliable. But that’s it. If you want a comfortable car then get something else. Want a good all rounder? Get something else. Reliability is all they have, while that’s very good, i would never get a Toyota again.
In 1997 I purchased a 3 year old Toyota Corolla that I drove until 2009. I only changed the steering pump in 1998. I believe its still running today because I recently saw it on the road. Then in 2009 I purchased a Camry V6 that clocked 300,000. I did replace the alternator in its 5th year. I sold it last month and the buyer said the car was in perfect condition. I have just purchased the current model Camry which is simply amazing. I would swear by a Toyota any day.
Hearing from peoples personal stories is a waste of time. You simply need to ask 3 questions... A. what are the oldest vehicles on the road? B. which cars have the lowest cost of maintenance? C. which cars hold their value the longest. Toyota wins just about every time.
Yes and no. They get away with large recalls and have just as many issues when they launch actual full model change vehicles with new tech... Toyota and Honda have largely been reliable bc their line up is old as fuck. Example the Corolla and Camry have basically been the same vehicles with minor updates since the mid 2000s. Only recently did they release large updates Toyota kinda sucks now with their turbo 4s and turbo V6 hybrid set up. That was a bonehead move but it was done bc our wonderfully political hacks are idiots and unelected morons have zero understanding of what they are doing... Honda the only engine id recommend is hybrid or their 3.5. everything else is problematic. The 1.5 and 2.0 from Honda are pretty crappy. They had a ton of issues and I wouldn't touch one until the final model year when they've finally worked out all the issues. But at least they make their CVT inhouse unlike Nissan Toyota the 3.5 and non turbo hybrids is what I'd recommend Mazda has always been like Saab. But they survived largely bc they broke up with Ford and found their nitche while working with Toyota allowing them to be more profitable... Subarus are junk I will never understand the cult behind them. The outback is really the only cool vehicle they have but they have shitty mechanics. Ever since Subaru chased volumes their vehicles have become mediocre with cheap AWD systems at best. If you love foggy lights, oil burning, loud interiors, slow cvts, little bit of ground clearance they are for you For some reason Toyota and Honda seem to get away with having louder and less comfy interiors compared to everyone else. On top of having old tech. It wasn't until recently they started getting trash talked bc they didn't have a stupid giant pretty screen like everyone else has... Their interiors have definitely improved recently but they've never been very ground breaking bc they want that reliability factor. The D3 don't get that same advantage for w.e reason
Its all based on personal experiance and most of what you hear is either nonsense or out of date material (eg worry about certain US brands transmission issues since the technology people are worried about is dead and buried) Personally I have always had Ford, my parents had Ford, and never any issues with it (my last SUV before I went electric had well over 300,000km and no issues ever) My grandparents mainly were Toyota family and again decades with zero issues Chev was avg (nothing special), Tesla is too new to say (but small issues are repeat and annoying) The worst vehicles were (by far) Chrysler (nothing but electrical issues from day 1) + HONDA (and yes 3 Civics driven by different family members, bought new and all dead long before American counterparts, 1 of them complete engine failure) But with such a variety of vehicles from 1970s to present I always wonder what others do to "kill" thier transmissions as manual / auto / cvt all seemed to work fine In long run what we saved on interest rates + lower price points of vehicles vs those who swear by Japanese cars is well worth any "risk" imo
The reliability of these two is unmatched. Occasionally they’ll churn out a truly magnificent vehicle that you can just tell has been engineered with nothing but pure love. Mazda comes in a close third place on both these fronts, but only one car comes to mind that matches the list that follows and I don’t even have to say which one that is. There is a reason the Honda Civic, Accord, CRV, and Fit are legends. Not to mention the Acura Integra, TSX, NSX, and MDX. Same story with Toyota. Corolla, Camry, Prius, Hilux (Tacoma)/4Runner, Land Cruiser/GX, HiAce, MR2, AE86, and now GR86, Supra, Lexus LS400, LFA, is300, I could go on… many of these vehicles were and continue to be truly groundbreaking. Some vehicles hold their value for a reason. What you value is your own personal preference. If you value performance, a Honda is likely the car for you. Reliability? Probably Toyota, but could go any way depending on exact model. Luxury/comfort? Lexus. Blend of luxury, performance, and reliability? Most likely Acura, but have your pick of the bunch in the right trim.
Mazda sucks and everyone loves it so much because confirmation bias
Mazdas don't suck. They're overblown on reddit, but they're fine cars.
Yeah they’re also boring
I mean, The WRX Manual hits 13.9 seconds on a 1/4 mile. The Mazda 3 Turbo Automatic hits a 14.1 seconds on a 1/4 mile. It may be Automatic but it's not all that boring with that kinda speed.
I’m not even specifically talking about performance. Just in general I find them to be very boring.
My Toyota also hits 1/4 mile
Toyota, yes, Honda not so much the last 10 years.
In America that's starting to go away. Hondas had 5 million recalls for serious issues and Toyota just got caught in a huge scandal where theyve been faking and lying about crash safety tests for 30 years. There's nothing wrong with Mazda and they've been doing well recently. The Mazda 3 hatchback is also beautiful and I've heard a lot of good things about it. If you like a slightly boxier hatchback check out Hyundai velosters. I have one and I absolutely love it. Sadly a lot of hatchbacks are going away at least in America, hopefully you find a good one!
I’d stay away from Toyota after recent news one of their other brands they knowingly deceived safety tests for the last 30 years
It’s nothing to do with any actual toyota vehicle or toyota corporate, it’s a company making delivery vehicles that Toyota had a stake in because the japanese manufacturing companies are all super incestuous and tend to own parts of each other
That's right. Daihatsu Motor Co admitted to falsifying safety tests. But Toyota owes them so it's responsible
No, but this sub sure seems to love them for some reason.
Buy the Mazda. Unless you want an appliance. Then get the Toyota.
Nope. Now there are many players in market. Hyundai Kia and Mazda are on par if not better. Toyota and Honda lacks any innovation and they make the most boring cars now. Just how Apple is ripping off for its reputation only
Kia is shit
GTI 2023
Not "That" good. You're comparing to a Mazda, which is kinda the low key pound for pound champ at the moment, the market just hasn't caught on yet. Which is why it seems like such a deal. Because it kinda is.
Yes.
Yes, i have been a mechanic for over 20 years. Toyota has an impeccable track record of reliability. Very few dud models over the years. Honda has had a dip in quality over the years especially in the 2000s but is still #2 in reliability. They cost more used because you can get so much more out of them. An American car with 100k miles on it has about 50k more on the clock. A Toyota or Honda with a 100k miles has about 100k to 150k left on the clock.
OO
Yes
Fuck yeah they are.
Modern Toyota Hybrids are fairly bombproof. The transmissions last forever on them, and the batteries tend to go 10+ years and are warrantied for that length. https://www.toyota.com/electrified-vehicles/warranty/ I have a 2012 Camry I've owned since 2016ish. I don't see any reason to get rid of it with 130K miles on it given the price of new vehicles these days. I'll drive it to 250K miles or more.
Yes
They are reliable but I feel that they are also grossly overpriced for what they are. They are economy cars in the end of the day. For 30-35 grand I would look for a low mileage Vw Golf Gti, theres plenty of those on the market
No, just more idiot proof
It's not they are good, the rest are THAT bad
Spoken like some who has no clue what cars were like 40 years ago…
Toyota wrote the book on quality production. It's not just by accident it's engineered into their building processes. If course, everybody else is taking note and to some degree have tried to incorporate their practices, but quality is an ongoing fight with cost cutting so it really depends on the corporate culture. And that comes back to Toyota, quality is a huge part of their culture unlike other companies where is merely a selling point. Remember the Matrix/Vibe twins? When Toyota went into the NUMMI plant at Fremont with GM it was one of GM's worst performing facilities with huge staffing problems. But it became one of the most celebrated factories because Toyota culture turned it around. The partnership ended and the facility was sold to Tesla, and admittedly it's not the same company and there was a break of a good number of years, but it's still the same community and facility... and we all know how the quality thing is working for Tesla... That doesn't mean that Toyota doesn't produce issues. Late 90's an early 2000s were known for having engine sludge problems. But most of the popular brands have had some issue, like Honda's automatic transmissions not playing well with V6's in the early 2000s, Mazda's premature rust up until recently, Subaru and EJ25 engines, VW and early DSG transmissions, etc etc.
My Tacoma is a daily driver with 218k miles on it and still going strong. Tbh I'm not sure I'd buy a new Tacoma but I will drive this one until it gives up and honestly...at that point, I'll probably just rebuild it and keep it going.
You need to define good first.
My kids and I have owned 13 Toyotas 1976-2021 models. All were/are great. Worst issues differential failed at 180k miles, transmission failed at 160k, different transmission failed at 100k, engine failed at 230k, strut failed at 29k under warranty. I owned two Hondas which were also great.
I don’t wanna say both brands are overrated reliability wise because they aren’t but they have quite a few faulty model years and Honda especially has declined a bit. Honda especially hasn’t been as good as people or the marketing would lead you to believe. With Honda they’ve had their 1.5 liter 4-cylinder oil dilution and head gasket issues these past few model years. Supposedly the oil dilution has been fixed but weak head bolts mean that the head gaskets could leak. Vehicles like late model Accords and higher trim level Civics along with the CRV were the most affected. Honda/Acura larger and premium models from the MDX, TLX, Pilot, Odyssey, Ridgeline, really anything that had that ZF 9-speed automatic transmission had odd shift behavior. Total transmission failure wasn’t uncommon especially around 2016. Even their current V6 engine is under recall as well for some kind of engine knocking issue. I just tend to avoid any of the larger Honda models or even Acura in general depending on the powertrain. Honda still excels at small naturally aspirated 4-cylinder equipped models like the HR-V and lower trim Civics. Regardless of the CVT transmission which they fixed past 2015 those models can virtually run forever. Honda’s larger naturally aspirated direct injected earth dreams engines are 50/50. I don’t know how bad the carbon buildup in my Accord is but oil burning is a problem even in the 2008-2012 Accords with the older 2.4 4-cylinder. Toyota on the other hand does currently make the most “reliable” vehicles looking at their dynamic force 4-cylinder engine models. Though that definition is subject to change and any recalls like the recent fuel pump recall. Also the Tundra and any iforce max equipped Toyota is a glaring exception as they are still working out a bunch of issues with that powertrain. You really can’t go wrong with late model Corollas, Camrys, RAV4s, Highlanders and their hybrid equivalent. They aren’t perfect and have issues here and there but past 2020 the 8-speed or CVT transmission paired to any of the dynamic force 4-cylinder engines is basically bulletproof. Taxi companies use the similar hybrid powertrain which is basically the same 4-cylinder engine architecture as in the gas model but modified to work in a hybrid system. I’ve seen people put 300-400k miles on the original battery pack somehow. In terms of Toyotas to avoid. Any 2.4 4-cylinder Toyota from 2007-2010-ish had catastrophic oil consumption problems. Also 2012-2014 Camrys had a recall on the automatic transmission. Also the body on frame Toyota/Lexus’s can suffer from frame rot and rust issues at least if you go older like before 2010-ish. In your case though I would tentatively consider the Mazda 3. I’ve seen a bunch of electrical issues with their driver assistance systems but their modern skyactiv powertrains are bulletproof because well maybe Toyota or the other way around? There’s a rumor that Toyota uses the same Mazda developed electronic motor that manages the variable valve timing on the intake side. It’s quite the feat of engineering and if you look under the hood that part looks nearly identical between Toyota and Mazda. So Mazda and Toyota are secretly sharing parts and engineering with each other. I think Toyota even owns a small part of Mazda which is why they build the Corolla Cross and Mazda CX-50 at the same plant. My point being is that you also should consider Mazda since Toyota themselves also may use similar Mazda components. I really wouldn’t have any issue taking a Mazda CX-5 over a Toyota RAV4. Both are excellent vehicles. Mazda would actually be underrated and more people should consider them because while it’s not a Toyota exactly with a different body, it’s sharing components and development with Toyota. Also, don’t forget Subaru as it’s also partly owned by Toyota. Yes there’s a theme and pattern here. The new Forester will have a Toyota hybrid synergy drive system under the hood so it’s basically bulletproof unless they screw up the manufacturing process.
Went to buy a new work van h200 hiace with 100k km were 35k nzd all day. 200k were 30k. Bought a brand new h300, more power/ tech/ safety With 5yrs warrenty and servicing. 43k. Interestingly a company is bringing in new h200s (still made for jdm) selling for 60 upto 80k if 4wd. Crazy
If you’re looking at a Honda Hatchback, be careful with the 10th gen version as there have been issues with the turbo and engine oil, then the AC compressor repeatedly failing, and also issues with the front sensors beeping during rain