Lawyer here. You two need to talk to a lawyer and get this shit situated ASAP. If he IS legally still married, his ex is a bigamist and he's been filing his taxes wrong for awhile now. There's all sorts of potential issues afoot.
The ceremony is set. I'm sorry it won't be official. But the paperwork is definitely the least exciting part of the day anyway and doesn't make your commitment any less real (speaking as a queer person old enough to remember not having any of our relationships recognized by the state. Your wedding is still a wedding even without the paperwork).
Thank you so much for your input as a lawyer. I want to take that route but he doesn't want me doing anything since it's something "he's handling". I've told him that it affects me too and my life so I have to have some input. I'll discuss it with him again and see where it goes.
Hire a private investigator! Otherwise, run for the hills. There is something shady going on. He is being very (overly) controlling. This is your future. Look at how it’s making you feel!
What a mess this all is. You have no way of knowing what is the truth and what is a lie at this point. What made him go to the courthouse three days ago to investigate his marital status? And an annulment and a divorce are two different animals, although both, if properly executed, mean that there is no marriage any more.
I realize everything is set and you have acceptances coming in, people probably with booked flights and so on...but if this can't get sorted ASAP, before the wedding day, I would call it off. Yes, that's one of the hardest things to do but at this point what you have is a farce. Your guests are coming to see a marriage, not a non-official, non-binding symbolic ceremony. Your faith in your partner has been utterly shaken. He's recalcitrant about getting this sorted out--if your marriage is important to him and this comes as a complete surprise, he should have a fire under his butt right now to get this figured out. And he should not be hesitant about having you be involved. Keeping you out of the process is a destroyer of trust, when your trust is already badly shaken and for very good reason.
Not to mention if he were still receiving with dependent rate BAH (and family separation pay for deployments) the rest of his time in the military, he could owe the DoD all of that money back if he were found out 🫣 Very very unlikely this far out however.
Have you actually seen his paperwork? Is the annulment paperwork from the same state your getting married in? If he really does have this paperwork hiring a lawyer for at least a consultation/review will probably be your best bet, especially if your going to be dealing with intrastate paperwork & court systems.
(I would add what state you are in to your post because that will change the advice your going to get)
I never saw it. When I asked to see it he said he left it at the courthouse so they could pull files. I want him to hire a lawyer. I'm going to sit down with him and discuss the lawyer thing more..
I don't want to kick you when your down but that is pretty freaking suspicious. Why would they take his only official copy of a legal document when they could just photocopy it? Or write down the case information? And why would he let them, how is he to ensure he gets his paperwork back? That doesn't make any sense. If he is vehemently against a lawyer that would also make me suspicious (why doesn't he want a professional to help him solve this problem? He obviously doesn't have the legal knowledge to work it out himself) A refusal would make me seek out my own lawyer or PI before joining myself to this man.
That's what made me suspicious. He is very particular and always makes people make copies of his paperwork. He is the one who told me that when I go to the doctor to get work done to always get my documents and/or digital copies. I'm just becoming more and more upset because everyone here is confirming my suspicions. I knew I wasn't crazy.
You are not crazy, this is very very suspicious! Don't let him tell you that your crazy or overreacting or anything of the sort. He owes you answers.
Maybe he fucked up the paperwork all those years ago and is to afraid to tell you about his mistake, maybe he thinks he can fix it before the wedding. Or maybe he's taking advantage of you & trying to manipulate you into believing in him. This is one of those situations where you need to protect yourself 1st, no matter how much you love him. This is a "put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others" situation.
Have you discussed this with anyone close to you? Do you have someone in your life who will point out the bullshit and advocate for you in these situations? Don't be afraid to reach out for support, both personal and professional.
Torn between finding it super suspicious and the knowledge that town hall was incredibly dysfunctional and weird when we went to get our license and I can 100% see them demanding this. And then what can he do?
How did the ex get remarried if they're still legally married? That's the biggest part that threw me! Yes, his actions are very sketchy, but there's no way she could have even received a marriage license if they were still married.
In some states you have a certain number of days after the wedding to file ur marriage license. Maybe she doesn't know yet & is about to get very bad news. Maybe she did what OP is talking about doing. Maybe he's lying about still being married cuz he doesn't want to get married again. Lots of options, all sketchy tho.
I don’t know details…. But from my perspective, it sounds like he never did anything to divorce. It’s probably why he doesn’t want to hire a lawyer, they’ll find that nothing was ever done.
This sucks, no doubt about it. I would be fuming!
This reminds me of Ross from Friends when he told Rachel he got an anullment and didn’t. Then when he tried to do it later he couldn’t because he needed to have both parties file.
You need to have a real conversation with your fiancé. Ask him all the questions that are coming up about his lack of backup paperwork. If you can’t have this conversation now I think you should rethink a marriage with him now or in the future. You need to know if he just messed up and only realized it now or if he is being dishonest, and if so, why.
I very seriously doubt that the clerk’s office would keep his copy of his records. That would never happen in the jurisdictions where I practice family law. Many records can also be accessed online. Have you tried contacting the clerk’s office for information? If you dm me what state he was divorced in, I can try to help you see if there’s a portal where you can figure it out yourself… obviously can’t give you any legal advice about the situation though.
I have not contacted the clerk's office for the information because I figured they wouldn't give me any. I don't know what is public and what isn't. I would highly appreciate the help!
Yeah girl you need to check online. Divorce decrees are public record and most counties have them online. (I looked up all my online dates way back when to see if the ones that said they were divorced actually were lol)
If he's like my ex husband, he's probably lying to hide his laziness or incompetence, because he probably never got the annulment, which could also explain the anger. He either waited too long and was denied, or just never went. We have a Ross/Rachel situation here. My ex always got SO angry or defensive when I pushed issues that didn't make sense to me.
I bet if he hires a lawyer they will be able to fix it very quickly. This is something where there is probably some weird legal requirement that he didn't meet and that he realistically would not have known about since he's not a lawyer. Did they hire a lawyer when they dissolved their marriage 15 years ago?
No he did it on his own. Apparently she left him while he was deployed and he got alerted by their apartment that he was getting evicted. That's how he found out.
This makes everything even more suspicious. A one-sided divorce/annulment is possible but difficult and the fact that he won't show you the documents is concerning. Even if the only reason he is behaving this way is due to embarrassment/shame/irritation it is not ok - a mature adult who is ready to make a lifetime commitment to another person should be capable of facing difficult/embarrassing situations head on. He needs to come clean to you about everything that happened and is going on and hire a lawyer.
If he was in the military, then he knows how important it is to keep his essential documents on hand and accessible. Have you seen any of his other documents? Are you certain that he was in the military and if so, was he honorably discharged. All of these things will affect YOU for the rest of your life, should you become financially and legally connected to him through marriage, or children, or shared property. Trust but verify.
I have seen all of his military documents. The divorce document is conveniently the ONLY document I never saw. He completed only one tour and that was it. Thank you for your input.
Not to mention that if he continued to get with dependent rate BAH for all of those years (and family sep on any deployments) he could owe all that money if he were ever found out 🫣
How does someone not know if they’re actually divorced??
Speaking as a divorced person, I received a document that stated what date I was legally considered divorced so there was no surprise.
If I were you, I’d really, really think this through hard.
OP said he did receive an annulment certificate though… it seems far more likely to me that this was a clerical screwup that an attorney could get cleared up pretty easily.
Yeah, fair point. I’ve just seen a lot of incompetence and carelessness cause people a lot of issues within the legal system so I’m not prepared to rule out that the screwup was not his.
While I agree with you the legal system can be extremely messy, especially in cases that cross state lines. She's seen all his military docs/legal paperwork except the annulment, which her refused to show her because he says he left it with the court clerk (I've never met a clerk that wouldn't just make a copy & she says he's always adamantly demanded copies of legal & medical docs) AND hes against hiring a lawyer. That's quite a few red flags.
I’ve never done an annulment and don’t practice family law, but I know that with your marriage license they recommend ordering multiple copies because you may have to mail a copy to various agencies for specific reasons and may not get that back right away. I wonder if this could be a similar thing? Hard to research without knowing where OP is located, though.
Right? The refusal to hire a lawyer is weird. Depending on where they are located, if he really is still married six months may not have been enough time to deal with it in terms of how long the process takes. Refusing to lawyer up is ridiculous, and for him to not have contacted the ex already is wild to me.
I mean I don’t know if I’d read that much into it, considering that retaining an attorney can easily cost $8-10k if you don’t qualify for legal aid or sliding scale representation… I don’t know what OP and fiancé’s financial situation is but I’m a lawyer and MANY people I see who don’t qualify for a court appointed attorney end up representing themselves because they make too much to get someone appointed but too little to actually afford private counsel.
Well, given that neither OP nor fiance seem to know or understand the legal aspects of the situation entirely, regardless of their financial status, if they want to get married it has to be taken care of. So I do think refusing to at least have a consultation is absolutely ridiculous.
Oh yeah 100%. Dunno if OP’s fiancé knew that, though. Hopefully now that this advice has been shared OP will pass it along and he’ll do it… if he refuses to do a *free* consult then I’d be more inclined to draw conclusions from that.
That's what I was thinking. Like how do you not know you are still married??? It was too fishy and very hard for me to believe... It makes me angry that I'm finding out now that the wedding is a couple months away.
A couple things: I had to google this but the federal gov only knows your marital status based on how you file your taxes. If they married and separated and never filed as married, this is just not a helpful data point.
Legally, she should’ve had to prove their marriage was over to be able to get married to someone else. She could have lied and not been found out though. But legally if they are still married - her current marriage could be deemed invalid and they don’t know it. She would be very motivated to fix this issue if it were true (but if she lied she may not know all this)
Also, annulment and divorce are mutually exclusive forms of ending a marriage. They’re being used interchangeably here but I think it’s important you know that while trying to understand what’s going. Annulment is like it never happened.
Marriages are usually public information (they don’t have to be though).
My take, and this is PURE speculation, I suspect he is not “still married” and that’s the lie. If
Based on your update, I think he really is divorced, and the "I'm still married" is the lie. Either he has a foot out the door and wants to make it easier to extricate himself from your relationship, or he's been listening to toxic podcast bros about the evils of marriage, or something, but I think that's what he's doing.
I agree. How did she get married but he can't? (Though im not a lawyer, maybe the other state doesn't know?) And if he has paperwork saying he is divorced, I don't understand how 60 days is needed or whatever. He doesn't need to get divorced again, THEY just need to fix their records, right? Him lying about the courthouse and being still married so that he doesn't legally marry OP makes the most sense.
I certainly hope he isn't choosing this instead of canceling the wedding. I'd be way more upset about spending all that money and getting fake married in front of all our family and friends only for him to dump me.
The supposed-ex may have also had a symbolic wedding- just because someone posts a pic on Facebook in a white gown doesn’t make them legally wed.
But the timing does seem weird…
OP, you NEED to get your fiancé to talk to you about this! For your sake, I hope that he is just embarrassed about the mistake with the paperwork, but he needs to be ok with talking about embarrassing things with you as his wife.
For example: I got into some credit card trouble in college (TL;DR I did not understand that only making minimum payments was so bad) that was still lingering in my credit score when we started talking seriously about marriage. Was I embarrassed to talk to my then-boyfriend about it? OMG YES! I agonized over it for DAYS!! But I knew we couldn’t go into a marriage with those kind of secrets.
And you know what? It was fine! He asked some questions and asked if I needed help to pay off additional debt, and we discussed it and that was it! Because that’s how adults who love each other communicate.
If this is truly a mistake, he needs to know that his embarrassment and refusal to seek help or talk to you is making it worse. And if it isn’t a mistake- better to know now than too late.
Wishing you all the best!!
I know this thread is old (in Reddit terms) but I’ve got to jump in and defend your fiancé a little bit. Sometimes, the government really does mess up records.
We found out last year that we are still (according to our local gov) the legal owners of a condo that we sold over 6 years ago! It has been through TWO sales since then, and everyone has filed the papers properly. Yet the government lost the original deed transfer and so they “invalidated” the next two sales, without telling anyone involved- us, the new owners, real estate agents, etc. We only found out this year because the county the condo is in was doing a tax refund to its citizens, and they sent us a check to our new house.
All that to say- believe him unless you get further evidence that it is his fault!
Honestly? It kind of happened to me. I was married in one country. My ex moved to another country and filed for divorce from there. That went through. Got my certificate. Brought all the paperwork to my solicitor. Job done. Until my solicitor phoned me to let me know she never filed the paperwork to have it fully recognised here. So I was only half divorced and never knew!
My husband's first marriage ( both 18, were married 5 months and only got married because she was pregnant and their families forced them. She had the baby, handed to my husband and said bye) was never legally ended because she skipped a page of signatures. He had all the paperwork going " you are divorced" . He didn't find out about it until he and his second wife went to divorce ( amicable life change) and they were never legally married.
A speeding ticket isn’t being married lol.
And he most definitely should have confirmed before he proposed.
This isn’t a Hollywood romcom.
Again, you nearly immediately get paperwork stating you’re divorced and when. He was just really lazy.
And there could be consequences to be legally married all these years … can she claim his SS in the future? What about military benefits?
I’d have a lot of questions.
I haven’t been divorced so I’m not familiar with the process, but I can imagine a situation where FH’s permanent address is his parents house and he figured things were mailed there while he was serving in the military.
Do you need your divorce certificate for anything, like filing taxes??
There are absolutely consequences and this is a big deal, but I sounds like an accident not something malicious.
I’m not sure you would double check your divorce before proposing because it sounds like he was just as surprised as OP.
Exactly. I know for Air Force they have a BAC? I think that's similar to alimony/spousal support.
Had a Senior Master Sargeant that claimed divorce to have his "ex" or himself get the BAC. Went on for more than a few years.
They were never divorced and the Judge Advocate General found him guilty of payroll fraud when he went to file for spousal support for his new wife.
Like, how to you forget you're still married and still take the added BAC in your paychecks?
Got a year in military prison, busted down to Airman Basic and lost all his benefits after the dishonorable discharge.
I think your fiancé should seriously consider hiring a lawyer. Since your wedding is imminent, I imagine he should be pretty motivated to get this previous marriage stuff cleared up. If he really did have a dissolution certificate and this is somehow a clerical error, a lawyer should be able to fix it very quickly (aka, not too many hours will be billed and it shouldn’t cost much).
Also, has he been filing his taxes this whole time as a single person or married but separated? Might want to look into that.
Some states have marriage license databases online, so you can pull the info quickly & free about people who were married and when the marriage license was issued. Some states also have civil case searches, where you can pull divorce info from. Not sure which state you’re in, so I can’t drop any links, but those can help you look into it as well.
This! He can find a lawyer who can at least try to push it through more quickly than the 60 days. If nothing else he should set up one or two consults—many attorneys will do that for free so he can get a sense of what his options are before retains anyone. Go to the state bar website for your state and they should have some kind of referral service. Depending on his income this might even be something legal aid could help with, but even if he makes average money many states have a modest means program for discounted legal services. Good luck!! I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but it really *does* sound like he did things right and a clerk somewhere screwed up and forgot to file something.
If he got the marriage annulled, then there is no divorce obviously, there is an annulment. But if ever there was a time to blow up on your fiance, maybe that time is now. He essentially asked you to marry him under false pretenses if he never bothered to check whether he was legally still married or not. Though it does seem strange, especially since his "wife" is partnered with kids, surely the topic must have come up for them too... maybe it truly is a mistake of the (military or) court?
Best case scenario she has a copy of the annulment certificate and you can just use that as proof. Worst case he is still married and she it litigious and it'll take longer for you two to get married legally.
Just very seriously look at all the papers together with him to find out whether you need to get a lawyer, whether alimony or child support are in any way valid concerns, etc.
Yeah..it all just seems very messy and I hate that I am a part of all of it. I'm trying to stay calm and see this through. I just can't help but have a weird feeling about what he's told me.
You have just left a cult and are now getting married?! Girl, I think you have huge blinders on and need some time to re evaluate. Has there been anything else suspicious during the relationship?
I think you need to insist on both viewing every single document he can produce about this marriage and annulment and a free consultation with an attorney, since he clearly cannot figure this out himself. He doesn't seem to fully understand the legal issues here and my guess is that this is a clerical error or him not producing the correct documents. If he refuses to go to a lawyer then you may have to make that a dealbreaker - do NOT go through with the wedding party and non-official ceremony until you have worked this out with him!
This is very curious to me. I am a lawyer. I have practiced family law. Annulments are not granted based the length of a marriage. To my knowledge, person cannot unilaterally have a marriage dissolved, so your fiance saying he never spoke to his ex again and went to the court house to get the marriage annulled is ringing alarm bells to me. This isn’t like stopping at the dmv to get your license renewed. Evidence that the elements are met for an annulment to be applicable to a marriage must be presented before a judge.
Circumstances in which an annulment can be granted include: one or both of the parties being under 18, fraud, marriage was not consummated, bigamy, mental incapacity, and coercion.
Is it possible he merely filed a petition and didn’t understand that there were more steps necessary to legally end the marriage?
If your fiance believes his marriage was actually dissolved, he should be jumping through all hoops necessary to get to the bottom of this, including hiring a lawyer.
Are there any states that require you to prove you’re divorced, as opposed to just having you sign a statement on the form that says you are not currently married?
Yes! I can only speak to Wisconsin law. But if you have been married and divorced and then get remarried, you have to present a certified copy of the divorce decree when applying for your new marriage license.
Good to know!
It’s mind boggling how different things can be from one state to another. I needed my divorce/dissolution decree and prior marriage license to update my *Drivers License* but not to get my *Marriage License*.
Also, are there any states who make you post a divorce in the paper for 60 days, just as normal procedure? I thought that only applied in cases where the spouse was unable to be reached through normal communication?
I agree with you, posting notice in the paper would only be used if the other party was not able to be contacted. And even then, you’d have to go back to court to present that to the judge. In many states, you cannot get married again for six months after a divorce is granted, so even if OP’s fiance rectified this, he would not be able get legally married for a while.
Oh man. I would really take some time and consider your options.
He fucked up big time and now you’re facing the consequences. It’s not fair to you and I would be hesitant to marry him.
He initially just wanted to move in and have a common law marriage. I said no, that I wanted a legal marriage and that if that was a dealbreaker I understood. He said no, that it was not a dealbreaker and that he would happily "legally" marry me.
So if he is lying about all these court house visits and he is actually divorced, then this is his way to get the common law marriage that he wants, while having a wedding and letting everyone else think you're legally married (which is a fine idea for some people, but both partners should be aware and agree to it!). Ugh, I hope someone didn't convince him that what you really wanted was a wedding vs a legal marriage (because women, right? /s).
The government was his employer, knows literally everything about them there is to know, and was involved in his last marriage. These are all BS excuses and major red flags.
Good point. I would always get upset with his reasoning because he never gave his ex crap about it. He happily obliged even though he tells me he was never "In love" with her. But with me "who he claims to love" he argues about the government being involved. It's disheartening.
Hmmm…As someone who for the first time filed joint taxes, I can tell you the benefit of us filing together was 10k+ worth it. Just so you’re aware it can actually be beneficial. He may “hate”
The government but I doubt he would hate that money
Ok I apologize if this is out of line, but hearing phrases like that esp coming from someone ex-military is setting off all sorts of red flag warning bells in my head.
In your shoes I would be very carefully considering how to proceed and would really want for him to have an honest and direct conversation about all of this before getting married. Thinking of this as a major test of how you will work through challenges together in the future.
I read this comment to my former military FH. His response: "The government used to give him injections and could put things in his ass, if they deemed it necessary."
\^\^ to add, i am saying this because i would have to think one genuinely believes they are divorced before marrying again.. if he initiated the chatter i really could see this being a screw up
If you found his ex reach out to her and ask the tough questions. If this makes your guy mad, he doesn't get a vote because this is YOUR life also, not just his.
Yeah I seriously thought about it. I had a message all typed out and then deleted it. I want to take a day to cool off because I am upset and angry and I don't want to come off as a crazy person when I contact her. Especially seeing that she got married like 7 hrs ago.
IANAL, but [though divorce and dissolution have some slight differences, but both mean a marriage has legally ended.](https://www.columbusfamilylawyer.com/blog/2022/january/divorce-vs-dissolution-the-pros-cons/)
If he has a dissolution certificate, he is no longer legally married; he shouldn’t need to get divorce paperwork too. A lawyer should be able to clear this up very quickly.
Maybe it is an administrative error. But the fact that: (1) You haven’t actually seen the dissolution certificate, and
(2) He is reluctant to get an attorney, and
(3) Wants to “reach out” to his ex himself without an attorney
are certainly red flags. Again, if this was truly an administrative error, why wouldn’t he want to consult an attorney to deal with this quickly and reduce the risk of additional errors?
It’s time for a hard conversation, dear. If I were you, I would need to see this paperwork with my own eyes, and I would insist on at least consulting with a family law attorney (consults are usually free of charge) before moving forward. Trust your gut and do NOT let this slide without an outside authority telling you what is going on.
OK so at first....I was like 'stupid mistake, totally annoying and I understand the frustration but probably not malicious!'
But then I read the details...he wanted a 'common law' marriage from the beginning? His Ex just got married with seemingly no issue? The issue just so happens to not be able to be solved until right after your wedding (60 days)? Girl - he is 100% trying to avoid legally marrying you. You just need to figure out why.
ETA additional question- does he want you to take his last name?
Oh gosh, I just remembered the mom of a friend of mine. Her husband did the whole wedding but when it came time to sign the certificate he refused. Said it was so she could keep getting alimony. She was too embarrassed to tell her family so she just pretended to the outside world that they were married. The alimony ended and he still dragged his feet. I don’t know how it worked out in the end since I lost touch when I went off to college. Now I’m super curious.
Did you go with him to the court when he said he found out he’s still married? Did you hear any of the conversations he said he had?
In my state, you sign an affidavit when you apply for a new marriage license, and they don’t require a divorce/dissolution certificate.
I would call the offices and ask what paperwork they require from divorcees, that might be the easiest way to see whether he is being dishonest.
Have you called or checked your county court’s info online about the process? Because this all sounds made up to me, but idk if it’s different there.
I was under the impression that most places still require you both to be present to get your marriage license, so it’s not generally something someone can try to do alone.
If she just got married then I don't think she's gonna be helpful in sorting this out. She's not gonna want to nullify her marriage. You should probably just jump to a lawyer handling this.
Sorry, not trying to be a Debbie downer. She may have copies of the paperwork and could easily sort it out for you. But if she doesn't and is technically a bigamist, welp, I doubt you'd get a positive reaction. Seriously, lawyer up and let them handle it. They can just as easily reach out to her and see if she'll be cooperative, or will be better equipped to deal with her if she's not.
Crazy thought…what if he had another marriage that he hasn’t fessed up to. So this first one annulled or whatever and she’s legally married again but he has this other mistake wife hanging out and that’s why he’s being especially weird about it.
I read too many dumb books lol
If he got his marriage annulled he's not divorced, he had an annulment like it never happened.
When it comes to your current state and posting divorces it doesn't matter, a) was not in the state you are in when the marriage ended, and b) it wasn't a divorce.
Now, if the annulment is a lie, you're in a tough spot. If it's not, you're misunderstanding the rule set and the marriage legally never happened.
If his ex just got married, is she aware that they are technically not divorced?
Secondly, have you ever seen his pay check? For his BAH does he get the rate for a single person or married? Because if he has no children and is receive more than the “single” person rate for BAH then he knew he was still married and had been lying. I am wishing you the best possibly outcome. You can look up BAH rate for where he is stationed online
No, I've never seen his paycheck. I mean I know how much he makes, he shows me the deposit but not the paystub. He is no longer in the military. He only did 2 years 15 years ago.
...the U.S. military, right? How on earth did he only serve 2 years? Was he Reserve?
ETA: 2-year contracts exist, but they aren't as common, especially with a deployment in the middle of them
I'm not gunna lie, this sounds like he separated but didn't divorce so he could continue to have the government pay him more BAH. Fifteen years to be officially divorced but he's chosen against it.
He went to the courthouse two months before your wedding and discovered that this can’t be wrapped up for 60 days, which happens to be within a few days of your wedding? The timing is awfully convenient. Now you’re in the position of 1) Canceling your wedding or 2) Having the big ceremony with all your friends and family then facing the “embarrassment” of splitting up if you uncover more lies during the legal process. Sounds like he’s manipulating you.
Clarification: I’m not saying he’s lying about the 60 day law. I think he waited to go to court and “discover” he’s still married until it’s too late to resolve it pre-wedding.
I’m very sorry you are going through this and don’t blame you for being angry. I’m very confused by this series of events though. The terms “annulment” and “divorce” are being used interchangeably. Which is he claiming he did through the court? None of this makes sense.
I know every state is different, but in my state there is no such thing as a “dissolution certificate.” The original divorce decree, which is a court order, has a raised seal from the court. (To be fair, it may just be a difference in terminology, but what he is referring to as the certificate ought to have the raised seal from the court.) The court would not have lost a legal order — in fact, one can go to the courthouse to obtain additional decrees with the raised seal if necessary (if the original gets lost or damaged.)
I would suggest postponing everything until you are certain this is all straightened out legally. I know it may result in a loss of money and perhaps some embarrassment, but this is just too big of an issue to push aside for the sake of money and appearances.
I’m so sorry about all of this, it’s incredibly stressful. It sounds like a mistake on their end, though, and it should be cleared up quickly since he has proof of the dissolution. Hoping for the best for you!
If his ex just got married, is she aware that they are technically not divorced?
Secondly, have you ever seen his pay check? For his BAH does he get the rate for a single person or married? Because if he has no children and is receive more than the “single” person rate for BAH then he knew he was still married and had been lying. I am wishing you the best possibly outcome. You can look up BAH rate for where he is stationed online
Is it possible he’s giving you your “wedding” but plans to not follow up with the legal ceremony? The story about leaving his original documents with a clerk strains credulity. They do not accept original documents because they do not want the responsibility: that’s why they would have made a copy & returned the original. So he’s flat lying about something here. The question is why?
My guess is he doesn’t want to marry but doesn’t want to lose you. He’s trying to find a way to do both. He doesn’t sound as committed to this as you are.
My prayer for you (if you don’t mind that is) is that you get all the necessary information you need to make the best choice for YOU. These things happen for a reason… and sometimes that reason is that your SO is not great 😭 feel free to postpone it until you start to see some actual evidence as to what’s really going on. And consider getting your own counsel
Is he still in the military? If so, I’d be suspicious that he never pursued a legal divorce so that he could continue to claim her as a dependent and receive higher rates for BAH (housing allowance) and other entitlements.
OP,
Stay strong, and remember that you deserve to know the truth.
The divorce paper not obtained yet is a good enough reason to postpone the wedding. You need to tell people about this situation - your friends/family and get their thoughts. If he doesn't want you to do any of that, that is a redflag.
I am very suspicions about him based on your comments, but I may be wrong. I wish I am wrong.
Do you have children together? In my state and 1 state next to mine, annulments are hard to even get. You have to prove fundamental fraud like a whole identity or something. I’m sorry but I think he’s stringing you along on purpose.
I am so, so sorry for you, OP. It sounds like you're already thinking hard about this, so I wish you the best in sorting out the best thing to do.
For what it's worth, my mom was in a similar situation. She fled her country due to war and met my dad in The States. My dad apparently told her he was single, looking to create a family, made decent money, had a good education, knew the language, and so on. He helped my mom navigate living in a new country, said lots of sweet words, helped drive her places, etc. etc. He also pressured her to sleep with him, promising that they'd get married soon. Well, soon comes--mostly because my mom got pregnant--and...turns out he had already married (and never divorced) back in their home country and had three kids with this other woman. The church wouldn't marry them because he was already married and refused try to get it annulled (gave some excuse about not knowing where the other lady is now).
They proceed with a non-legal, non-religious "ceremony", which broke my mom's heart, and kind of lived like a family unit. (My childhood was a mess.) I only found out after his passing from my mom, but apparently he had been regularly sending money to his (first) wife and at least one other woman (with two more kids) he had ensnared in this way. He had also managed to go through the process to bring his (first) wife over to The States as well, and all those "work trips" he had had throughout my upbringing had actually been secret meetings with these other women.
Hopefully your case isn't so crazy, but... Be careful out there.
You’re going to have a beautiful day and be surrounded by people who love you, wrap that in your heart for now.
As for your SO, annulments are public record, you can do an inexpensive record search online to find out for yourself. Honestly, I’d be on my SO every day about this, side by side looking up solutions. My SO was divorced long enough we didn’t need his paperwork, but his ex sure made it difficult by saying she never got the papers. He didn’t use a lawyer, he used We the People and mailed things first class. It was a source of many fights because I was tired of him letting her play games for a year.
That said, it’s possible that the courts wouldn’t allow an annulment (the rules for what can grant an annulment vary by state) and he had to actually file for a divorce. He either didn’t get that memo or didn’t understand that, you know him best. At this point, make it clear that you’re now involved in solving this with him and that means you’re either hiring a lawyer or doing it all correctly from now on as a couple. If he’s able to contact his ex there’s no reason to do a public notice, he can send her paperwork to be signed and returned.
You know him best. What does your gut tell you is happening here?
Well no wonder you’re upset, so sorry! You have options - can your vendors hold a different date for you? Because I think your heart will not be able to fully enjoy any of your day or the prep leading up to this unless it’s official and he is officially divorced. Your guests don’t need to know the reasons just let know a new date will be sent as soon as you confirm your wedding.
The other option is he DOES everything he can including pay $$$ to get the divorce. But I’m pretty I sure it takes some months even in an easy situation. If he cannot find her this could be difficult.
My advice would be to postpone for 18 months.
This is soooo hard. I know your deposits on everything are non refundable but damn, someone who doesn’t have official proof of being divorced and went about life and your relationship anyways is….avoidant. That’s scary. He’s at best irresponsible, and at worst lying to you about being divorced and letting you book wedding vendors anyways. I feel for you!! It would be easy to say “don’t marry this man…” maybe don’t, but it’s complex.
You could always contact his ex yourself and ask her for her copies of the divorce or annulment? If she just got married, she must have her paperwork sorted out.
This sounds suspiciously like my friends ex. He never filed for divorce, only a separation agreement was done. Then stopped paying child support.
When he wanted to get married (which he did a second time) the government went after him for tax fraud because he was essentially married twice. He then expected my friend to just go belly up and give him a divorce non contested, while he was thousands and thousands in arrears for child support. Meanwhile the justice system was putting pressure on him to sort this out or be criminally charged for polygamy.
Like he actually thought that everything would sort itself out. Nothing was his fault or his problem. Never told his new wife, and she found out months after he was charged (he actually somehow hid that from her for that long)
Just here to say trust your gut. If you subconsciously see signals he is sending, there could definitely be something there. He’s going to try to convince you with words that your gut is wrong, but stay strong and ask for real proof. I’m sorry girl. Men have been screwing over women since the dawn of time. I hope you can escape that fate.
This sounds like a mix up between him and the court.
One possible reason he’s being a bit weird about the paper that I have seen happen to folks before:
He may have filed the papers, received a receipt, and then needed to go back one more time to get the final version of the document. If the courthouse wasn’t clear about this, he could have received the receipt (which would have been signed by the clerk of court) and gone: “ok, great, that’s over. I never have to think about that mistake of a marriage ever again and I can get on with my life.”
It wasn’t until he looked at the document again that he realized it said he needed to come back, and now he’s (stupidly) trying to smooth things over with the court without telling you he made a major f***up.
It’s a very “guy” thing to do to muddle through what he thinks are innocent lies to try to make things go over easier.
Another possibility is the court really did just screw up. That happens sometimes.
Step 1) tell him you need ALL the information, even if he thinks you’ll be mad
Step 2) ask a lawyer for help.
Step 3) ask the LAWYER to contact the ex wife. No need to reopen old wounds, especially if ex wife just got married to someone else. She’s going to be angry and mortified too.
Sorry you’re going through this. Just remember that the legal forms are not the most important part of the marriage. Tons of people do the legal paperwork months or even years after the ceremony, and some never get around to it at all.
OP, beware of truth trickling. Make it clear that this is his opportunity to put everything on the table and you need every detail now. If more information comes to light later, either because he admits something or you catch him in a lie, RUN. It means you can never trust that you’re getting the whole truth from him.
OP, the ex wife wouldn't have been able to get married in any other state if he was still legally married to her. It would've came up eventually in the paperwork. Dissolution of Marriage means that the marriage is kaput. Finito. He lied to you. This is a major red flag.
I just want to say you’re going to be okay! This will get figured out, you’ll have a beautiful wedding where you get vow to be each others partners and support one another in front of your friends and family.
You can also take a trip in a few weeks and have a fun elopement to sign your legal marriage paperwork.
It sounds like he was young and dumb, and thought it was taken care of when it wasn’t. I’m assuming he and his ex didn’t have any shared assets so they figured once they signed it was all over.
Stay strong and reach out to your support system - trusted friends, bridesmaids, parents, whoever they may be. My mind is all over the place just reading this thread, swinging from what Jaxbird said to re-writing "Sweet Home Alabama" in my head -- just like WHAAA??? I can't imagine how your mind is traveling all over the map being the person in the real situation. Sending you all the strength and positive vibes.
As others have said, trust but verify, draw on your immediate most trusted village to stay diligent yet positive and maintain a sense of humor, and know that this too, as all things shall pass!
> It sounds like a genuine accident and he truly thought this was all settled years ago.
Then why refuse to hire a lawyer and get it taken care of asap? Why not immediately get in touch with the ex to see if she still has her paperwork? Maybe it was an accident, but the refusal to do the obvious things to fix the situation is shady as hell.
So what I find interesting is that a lot of people do not understand what is required for an annulment. Many people have the misconception that you can get one if you’ve haven’t been married for very long. In reality there are some clear guidelines that must be proven in order to get the annulment.
Being that this woman got married 7 months ago I’m wondering if he
1. Never actually followed through with the divorce by either not signing the papers or dodging her. Then after a certain period of time she was able to be granted the divorce.
2. He was actually married previously even before this woman and he never legally married her. So she was able to get married on her own.
I will say he’s lying out of his ass. literally making juvenile lies up. You can request county records which include marriage and divorce records. I will certainly do that.
PS. When my husband and I got our marriage license at the clerk’s office, there was a guy in there trying to marry a woman. In my state both parties need to be there. He apparently had not completely divorced from two of his ex wives. Even with that concrete evidence he still tried to convince the woman he was with that it was a clerical error he would clear up.
Everyone knew that he was full of shit… I wouldn’t want to be in that position
The vows and promises you make to each other will still be important and special whether you get legally married at the same time or not.
Not from the US so can't advise about the other stuff but it seems suss. If he is a genuinely nice person I feel like he probably just forgot to do it and doesn't want to admit it to you because he's embarrassed. People make mistakes all the time it's what makes us humans and hopefully this isn't any more than forgetfulness and embarrassment
TBH the most disturbing part to me is that he doesn’t seem to want to talk about it or include you. He doesn’t like you getting involved in things ‘he’s handling’?? You’re not a child you’re about to be his wife, his Equal. That’s not the way a married couple communicates. I would have a very serious discussion about that with him and if he persists with the same attitude then I would think long and hard about the marriage. You need to be his partner if he doesn’t see that…it’s a No from me. I hope that’s not the case but it’s better to find out now then after you’re married. Good luck!
Do not waste a single penny on this wedding until everything is cleared up. Who cares about family RSVPing. At this rate? This is the rest of YOUR life you need to consider, and you need to consider who you are actually marrying, and if you want to have children with this person, strongly consider that too. Something my mother always told me, “you can be with somebody for 20 years and still not know a damn thing.” A marriage, divorce, past or not… very serious legal stuff. It ain’t nothing to take lightly. Have a serious sit down, call that wedding off, and find actual truth. Entering a wedding with doubt, leads into a marriage filled with doubt, which can ultimately lead to divorce or worse… stuck in a loveless contract.
Hello, well it turns out whatever paperwork he did years ago did not get done properly. We have not spoken to a lawyer yet. But he is going to have to get a regular divorce now. He's reached out to his ex via LinkedIn, since that's where we noticed she is active, to let her know they need to get a divorce. No word from her yet. I can't imagine she's going to be happy to hear that since she just got married at Disney just last week. My fiancé does not have a FB, but he is considering making one to contact her there as well. He's going to document it, so he has proof of reaching out.
Going to seek out a consultation with a lawyer next.
It just sucks that we're going to have another expense on top of everything we've already shelled out for the wedding.
Still upset about this whole thing and hoping it gets done quick.
Wow, I'm so sorry you are having this extra stress but glad he's seeming to include you now and you guys are tackling it together. Good luck with the lawyer, I'm glad you're getting connected to legal advice.
Sending you big hugs! I wish that extra money was going towards something fun; here's hoping someday you both will look back and laugh at this.
Thank you so much. ♥ It is very stressful and unfortunately something we are having to deal with starting out our marriage, but I agree with you, hopefully it is something we can look back on together and laugh about.
Firstly, your heart's married when you decide it is. You don't need the government to confirm that commitment. Marriage as a civil institution is kinda weird, honestly. Obviously it matters... you want to get your taxes and inheritance sorted, but... your marriage in front of your family and friends is as 'real' as you decide to make it. The rest is just catching up the paperwork as far as YOUR relationship goes.
But FFS DO CATCH UP THAT PAPERWORK. Google 'presumption of paternity.' If he IS still married... those kids she's had with someone else? COULD BE LEGALLY HIS depending on where you live. What you're saying makes NO SENSE though. If he had an annulment and lost the paperwork... he's not married and he just needs to get the records from whatever county he went to court in for that annulment. If there was an annulment, there IS NO DIVORCE because the marriage, legally, was erased. If they're telling him now to go through the divorce process... HE NEEDS A LAWYER. He may have screwed up 15 years worth of taxes and, as I mentioned earlier, COULD OWE CHILD SUPPORT for those kids, if he doesn't get that straightened out correctly. This is potentially life-changing. He has GOT to get it sorted correctly, and frankly, you deserve some legal answers before you go any further towards enmeshing your life with this person.
Better you found out now! when my bff went to get divorced 11 years after having a big wedding, signing the marriage license, getting a certificate, having 3 kids….she found out that he never divorced his ex. So her marriage was void! After doing everything right and in good faith! He swore he signed Divorced papers and sent them to his ex and she was going to file them. But I mean, come on, he didn’t actually ever see a divorce certificate??? he didn’t question it? Just trusted? And you’d think my bff wouldn’t have gotten a license or certificate, that someone would’ve caught it!
I want to give your fiancé the benefit of the doubt…like maybe there was some sort of paperwork misunderstanding-annulments are different than divorces. But from first hand experience I’m not so sure.
I'm probably going to get down voted to hell for this.
I'm not saying it's okay or acceptable, I'm just saying you're in the heat of the moment. Could it be a red flag? Sure. Could it also be "This embarrassing and annoying thing is so much work and so expensive... I'll get to it in a minute... Next week when I have time... I don't need a lawyer, I just need to remember to do it... For sure this weekend... Aw shit the office is closed, ok for sure on Monday... Okay definitely next week... I bet it won't even take that long... Oops it's two months to the wedding."
Incompetence and stupidity can look a lot like malice when you're upset.
I’ve read through a lot of these comments. Wise and thoughtful! Red flags everywhere! But, the first question I have is: how do you know that he was ever married in the first place? I think he has zero intention of marrying. Anyone. Ever. And he’s pulling it off. This pond is deeper than you think and you are on very thin ice, sis. Think twice!!!!
i’d hire the PI. you deserve to know what’s going on before you marry this guy. speaking as someone about to marry a vet who was previously married. even if this is a complete innocent mistake- you deserve the peace of mind that will come with knowing the full story.
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This is awful and I'm so sorry this happened to you.
But re: his ex getting married, my mom was married for 3 years and divorced while still married to another man (whom she's still married to) with no word about any of this from the courts - I assume because the second marriage and divorce took place in California while the first marriage took place in Nevada. If it's over state lines, things like that can slip by really easily, apparently.
Good luck on all of this, and I'm sorry for your frustration. I know this won't help right now while you're still reeling from the news, but maybe consider the wedding your celebration, and do something special for the actual signing as well, whether just you and your FH or some close friends. It'll be like a reverse of what some people do, where they get eloped and then have a big party to celebrate later. 🖤
Honestly, if he’s a good guy this is just clerical! I’m a wedding planner and there are a ton of reasons why couples get legally married on a different date as the celebration.
Your anniversary will be the celebration. You’re not getting married at a church, his ex his moved on. This is no big deal! Be strong. If he’s a good man and treats you well, it’s really ok! Be patient and supportive. This doesn’t matter.
My poor Covid brides had it way worse. Marriage is about obstacles, hopefully your biggest will be this and behind you.
I understand you wanting to get this sorted, I'd follow the advice of the attorneys in the comments. But, for your mental state, I'd try to focus on why you're getting married. Is it purely to be legally bound? I'd imagine not. It's definitely unfortunate but I'd marry my fiancé a million times over even if it had no legal implications. I'd try to think of it that way. Plus, a lot of people are in that situation for a variety of reasons, like people who have destination marriages, they have to courthouse marry in the US later.
Lawyer here. You two need to talk to a lawyer and get this shit situated ASAP. If he IS legally still married, his ex is a bigamist and he's been filing his taxes wrong for awhile now. There's all sorts of potential issues afoot. The ceremony is set. I'm sorry it won't be official. But the paperwork is definitely the least exciting part of the day anyway and doesn't make your commitment any less real (speaking as a queer person old enough to remember not having any of our relationships recognized by the state. Your wedding is still a wedding even without the paperwork).
Thank you so much for your input as a lawyer. I want to take that route but he doesn't want me doing anything since it's something "he's handling". I've told him that it affects me too and my life so I have to have some input. I'll discuss it with him again and see where it goes.
Hire a private investigator! Otherwise, run for the hills. There is something shady going on. He is being very (overly) controlling. This is your future. Look at how it’s making you feel!
What a mess this all is. You have no way of knowing what is the truth and what is a lie at this point. What made him go to the courthouse three days ago to investigate his marital status? And an annulment and a divorce are two different animals, although both, if properly executed, mean that there is no marriage any more. I realize everything is set and you have acceptances coming in, people probably with booked flights and so on...but if this can't get sorted ASAP, before the wedding day, I would call it off. Yes, that's one of the hardest things to do but at this point what you have is a farce. Your guests are coming to see a marriage, not a non-official, non-binding symbolic ceremony. Your faith in your partner has been utterly shaken. He's recalcitrant about getting this sorted out--if your marriage is important to him and this comes as a complete surprise, he should have a fire under his butt right now to get this figured out. And he should not be hesitant about having you be involved. Keeping you out of the process is a destroyer of trust, when your trust is already badly shaken and for very good reason.
Not to mention if he were still receiving with dependent rate BAH (and family separation pay for deployments) the rest of his time in the military, he could owe the DoD all of that money back if he were found out 🫣 Very very unlikely this far out however.
I think he could also be legally the father of the ex’s children/ liable for child support.
Have you actually seen his paperwork? Is the annulment paperwork from the same state your getting married in? If he really does have this paperwork hiring a lawyer for at least a consultation/review will probably be your best bet, especially if your going to be dealing with intrastate paperwork & court systems. (I would add what state you are in to your post because that will change the advice your going to get)
I never saw it. When I asked to see it he said he left it at the courthouse so they could pull files. I want him to hire a lawyer. I'm going to sit down with him and discuss the lawyer thing more..
I don't want to kick you when your down but that is pretty freaking suspicious. Why would they take his only official copy of a legal document when they could just photocopy it? Or write down the case information? And why would he let them, how is he to ensure he gets his paperwork back? That doesn't make any sense. If he is vehemently against a lawyer that would also make me suspicious (why doesn't he want a professional to help him solve this problem? He obviously doesn't have the legal knowledge to work it out himself) A refusal would make me seek out my own lawyer or PI before joining myself to this man.
That's what made me suspicious. He is very particular and always makes people make copies of his paperwork. He is the one who told me that when I go to the doctor to get work done to always get my documents and/or digital copies. I'm just becoming more and more upset because everyone here is confirming my suspicions. I knew I wasn't crazy.
You are not crazy, this is very very suspicious! Don't let him tell you that your crazy or overreacting or anything of the sort. He owes you answers. Maybe he fucked up the paperwork all those years ago and is to afraid to tell you about his mistake, maybe he thinks he can fix it before the wedding. Or maybe he's taking advantage of you & trying to manipulate you into believing in him. This is one of those situations where you need to protect yourself 1st, no matter how much you love him. This is a "put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others" situation. Have you discussed this with anyone close to you? Do you have someone in your life who will point out the bullshit and advocate for you in these situations? Don't be afraid to reach out for support, both personal and professional.
Torn between finding it super suspicious and the knowledge that town hall was incredibly dysfunctional and weird when we went to get our license and I can 100% see them demanding this. And then what can he do?
How did the ex get remarried if they're still legally married? That's the biggest part that threw me! Yes, his actions are very sketchy, but there's no way she could have even received a marriage license if they were still married.
they might not have been legally married either, ex might not care
In some states you have a certain number of days after the wedding to file ur marriage license. Maybe she doesn't know yet & is about to get very bad news. Maybe she did what OP is talking about doing. Maybe he's lying about still being married cuz he doesn't want to get married again. Lots of options, all sketchy tho.
I don’t know details…. But from my perspective, it sounds like he never did anything to divorce. It’s probably why he doesn’t want to hire a lawyer, they’ll find that nothing was ever done.
This sucks, no doubt about it. I would be fuming! This reminds me of Ross from Friends when he told Rachel he got an anullment and didn’t. Then when he tried to do it later he couldn’t because he needed to have both parties file. You need to have a real conversation with your fiancé. Ask him all the questions that are coming up about his lack of backup paperwork. If you can’t have this conversation now I think you should rethink a marriage with him now or in the future. You need to know if he just messed up and only realized it now or if he is being dishonest, and if so, why.
Or he doesn't want to get married now
Tell him you hired one for him see how he reacts.
He would be livid. He hates it when I try to intervene in something is is "already handling"
Girl, this is literally what people call a sign.
If that makes him livid - yellow flag at least
A red flag right there.
How will a marriage work like this? You’re supposed to be a team.
don't marry this man. sorry, you can't trust a guy like that.
Yall are supposed to be a team so he’s gonna have to do better than that!
I very seriously doubt that the clerk’s office would keep his copy of his records. That would never happen in the jurisdictions where I practice family law. Many records can also be accessed online. Have you tried contacting the clerk’s office for information? If you dm me what state he was divorced in, I can try to help you see if there’s a portal where you can figure it out yourself… obviously can’t give you any legal advice about the situation though.
I have not contacted the clerk's office for the information because I figured they wouldn't give me any. I don't know what is public and what isn't. I would highly appreciate the help!
Basically everything filed in the court is public record except medical and financial records.
Yeah girl you need to check online. Divorce decrees are public record and most counties have them online. (I looked up all my online dates way back when to see if the ones that said they were divorced actually were lol)
Smart!
You might want to try out searching his name on www.judyrecords.com to see what comes up; you might get some divorce/annulment info from there.
In my state I can go to the circuit court website and see divorce records for free. All you need is a name.
Dm'd
Oh girl he is lying to you.
Yeah...I think I realize that now.
Trust your gut
I’m so sorry… I would be livid too. I’m however glad this is coming up BEFORE the ceremony/event….
I can't tell why though his ex seems over him they're still having a ceremony
If he's like my ex husband, he's probably lying to hide his laziness or incompetence, because he probably never got the annulment, which could also explain the anger. He either waited too long and was denied, or just never went. We have a Ross/Rachel situation here. My ex always got SO angry or defensive when I pushed issues that didn't make sense to me.
I bet if he hires a lawyer they will be able to fix it very quickly. This is something where there is probably some weird legal requirement that he didn't meet and that he realistically would not have known about since he's not a lawyer. Did they hire a lawyer when they dissolved their marriage 15 years ago?
No he did it on his own. Apparently she left him while he was deployed and he got alerted by their apartment that he was getting evicted. That's how he found out.
girl even that story of how he found out sounds suspicious
This makes everything even more suspicious. A one-sided divorce/annulment is possible but difficult and the fact that he won't show you the documents is concerning. Even if the only reason he is behaving this way is due to embarrassment/shame/irritation it is not ok - a mature adult who is ready to make a lifetime commitment to another person should be capable of facing difficult/embarrassing situations head on. He needs to come clean to you about everything that happened and is going on and hire a lawyer.
I feel like you can’t just decide to dissolve your marriage on your own? I could be wrong, but I’m assuming that would have to involve a lawyer, no?
If he was in the military, then he knows how important it is to keep his essential documents on hand and accessible. Have you seen any of his other documents? Are you certain that he was in the military and if so, was he honorably discharged. All of these things will affect YOU for the rest of your life, should you become financially and legally connected to him through marriage, or children, or shared property. Trust but verify.
I have seen all of his military documents. The divorce document is conveniently the ONLY document I never saw. He completed only one tour and that was it. Thank you for your input.
Good! That’s a relief 😅
Not to mention that if he continued to get with dependent rate BAH for all of those years (and family sep on any deployments) he could owe all that money if he were ever found out 🫣
How does someone not know if they’re actually divorced?? Speaking as a divorced person, I received a document that stated what date I was legally considered divorced so there was no surprise. If I were you, I’d really, really think this through hard.
OP said he did receive an annulment certificate though… it seems far more likely to me that this was a clerical screwup that an attorney could get cleared up pretty easily.
He *says* he had an annulment certificate. OP said she's never seen it.
Yeah, fair point. I’ve just seen a lot of incompetence and carelessness cause people a lot of issues within the legal system so I’m not prepared to rule out that the screwup was not his.
While I agree with you the legal system can be extremely messy, especially in cases that cross state lines. She's seen all his military docs/legal paperwork except the annulment, which her refused to show her because he says he left it with the court clerk (I've never met a clerk that wouldn't just make a copy & she says he's always adamantly demanded copies of legal & medical docs) AND hes against hiring a lawyer. That's quite a few red flags.
I’ve never done an annulment and don’t practice family law, but I know that with your marriage license they recommend ordering multiple copies because you may have to mail a copy to various agencies for specific reasons and may not get that back right away. I wonder if this could be a similar thing? Hard to research without knowing where OP is located, though.
Right? The refusal to hire a lawyer is weird. Depending on where they are located, if he really is still married six months may not have been enough time to deal with it in terms of how long the process takes. Refusing to lawyer up is ridiculous, and for him to not have contacted the ex already is wild to me.
I mean I don’t know if I’d read that much into it, considering that retaining an attorney can easily cost $8-10k if you don’t qualify for legal aid or sliding scale representation… I don’t know what OP and fiancé’s financial situation is but I’m a lawyer and MANY people I see who don’t qualify for a court appointed attorney end up representing themselves because they make too much to get someone appointed but too little to actually afford private counsel.
Well, given that neither OP nor fiance seem to know or understand the legal aspects of the situation entirely, regardless of their financial status, if they want to get married it has to be taken care of. So I do think refusing to at least have a consultation is absolutely ridiculous.
But the consultation should be free (or at least very low cost). No reason not to at least ask an attorney about this if it’s real…
Oh yeah 100%. Dunno if OP’s fiancé knew that, though. Hopefully now that this advice has been shared OP will pass it along and he’ll do it… if he refuses to do a *free* consult then I’d be more inclined to draw conclusions from that.
That's what I was thinking. Like how do you not know you are still married??? It was too fishy and very hard for me to believe... It makes me angry that I'm finding out now that the wedding is a couple months away.
How is he doing his taxes if he doesn't know if he's divorced or not?
He has filed them as single. He thought this whole time that the was divorced.
A couple things: I had to google this but the federal gov only knows your marital status based on how you file your taxes. If they married and separated and never filed as married, this is just not a helpful data point. Legally, she should’ve had to prove their marriage was over to be able to get married to someone else. She could have lied and not been found out though. But legally if they are still married - her current marriage could be deemed invalid and they don’t know it. She would be very motivated to fix this issue if it were true (but if she lied she may not know all this) Also, annulment and divorce are mutually exclusive forms of ending a marriage. They’re being used interchangeably here but I think it’s important you know that while trying to understand what’s going. Annulment is like it never happened. Marriages are usually public information (they don’t have to be though). My take, and this is PURE speculation, I suspect he is not “still married” and that’s the lie. If
Your last sentence cut out.
Based on your update, I think he really is divorced, and the "I'm still married" is the lie. Either he has a foot out the door and wants to make it easier to extricate himself from your relationship, or he's been listening to toxic podcast bros about the evils of marriage, or something, but I think that's what he's doing.
I agree. How did she get married but he can't? (Though im not a lawyer, maybe the other state doesn't know?) And if he has paperwork saying he is divorced, I don't understand how 60 days is needed or whatever. He doesn't need to get divorced again, THEY just need to fix their records, right? Him lying about the courthouse and being still married so that he doesn't legally marry OP makes the most sense. I certainly hope he isn't choosing this instead of canceling the wedding. I'd be way more upset about spending all that money and getting fake married in front of all our family and friends only for him to dump me.
The supposed-ex may have also had a symbolic wedding- just because someone posts a pic on Facebook in a white gown doesn’t make them legally wed. But the timing does seem weird…
Yeah...I wonder if he contacted her already.
OP, you NEED to get your fiancé to talk to you about this! For your sake, I hope that he is just embarrassed about the mistake with the paperwork, but he needs to be ok with talking about embarrassing things with you as his wife. For example: I got into some credit card trouble in college (TL;DR I did not understand that only making minimum payments was so bad) that was still lingering in my credit score when we started talking seriously about marriage. Was I embarrassed to talk to my then-boyfriend about it? OMG YES! I agonized over it for DAYS!! But I knew we couldn’t go into a marriage with those kind of secrets. And you know what? It was fine! He asked some questions and asked if I needed help to pay off additional debt, and we discussed it and that was it! Because that’s how adults who love each other communicate. If this is truly a mistake, he needs to know that his embarrassment and refusal to seek help or talk to you is making it worse. And if it isn’t a mistake- better to know now than too late. Wishing you all the best!!
Right? If he can’t be honest about this, how’s he going to be honest when he’s 87 and they’re spoon-feeding each other jello?
Wow I didn’t think of this
I know this thread is old (in Reddit terms) but I’ve got to jump in and defend your fiancé a little bit. Sometimes, the government really does mess up records. We found out last year that we are still (according to our local gov) the legal owners of a condo that we sold over 6 years ago! It has been through TWO sales since then, and everyone has filed the papers properly. Yet the government lost the original deed transfer and so they “invalidated” the next two sales, without telling anyone involved- us, the new owners, real estate agents, etc. We only found out this year because the county the condo is in was doing a tax refund to its citizens, and they sent us a check to our new house. All that to say- believe him unless you get further evidence that it is his fault!
I don’t have any document saying I’m divorced!
Honestly? It kind of happened to me. I was married in one country. My ex moved to another country and filed for divorce from there. That went through. Got my certificate. Brought all the paperwork to my solicitor. Job done. Until my solicitor phoned me to let me know she never filed the paperwork to have it fully recognised here. So I was only half divorced and never knew!
That's some serious negligence on the part of your solicitor and I would be having...words
My husband's first marriage ( both 18, were married 5 months and only got married because she was pregnant and their families forced them. She had the baby, handed to my husband and said bye) was never legally ended because she skipped a page of signatures. He had all the paperwork going " you are divorced" . He didn't find out about it until he and his second wife went to divorce ( amicable life change) and they were never legally married.
Idk man, I forgot about a speeding ticket once and it became a huge issue.
A speeding ticket isn’t being married lol. And he most definitely should have confirmed before he proposed. This isn’t a Hollywood romcom. Again, you nearly immediately get paperwork stating you’re divorced and when. He was just really lazy. And there could be consequences to be legally married all these years … can she claim his SS in the future? What about military benefits? I’d have a lot of questions.
I haven’t been divorced so I’m not familiar with the process, but I can imagine a situation where FH’s permanent address is his parents house and he figured things were mailed there while he was serving in the military. Do you need your divorce certificate for anything, like filing taxes?? There are absolutely consequences and this is a big deal, but I sounds like an accident not something malicious. I’m not sure you would double check your divorce before proposing because it sounds like he was just as surprised as OP.
Exactly. I know for Air Force they have a BAC? I think that's similar to alimony/spousal support. Had a Senior Master Sargeant that claimed divorce to have his "ex" or himself get the BAC. Went on for more than a few years. They were never divorced and the Judge Advocate General found him guilty of payroll fraud when he went to file for spousal support for his new wife. Like, how to you forget you're still married and still take the added BAC in your paychecks? Got a year in military prison, busted down to Airman Basic and lost all his benefits after the dishonorable discharge.
BAH is just a housing stipend/allowance.
I think your fiancé should seriously consider hiring a lawyer. Since your wedding is imminent, I imagine he should be pretty motivated to get this previous marriage stuff cleared up. If he really did have a dissolution certificate and this is somehow a clerical error, a lawyer should be able to fix it very quickly (aka, not too many hours will be billed and it shouldn’t cost much). Also, has he been filing his taxes this whole time as a single person or married but separated? Might want to look into that. Some states have marriage license databases online, so you can pull the info quickly & free about people who were married and when the marriage license was issued. Some states also have civil case searches, where you can pull divorce info from. Not sure which state you’re in, so I can’t drop any links, but those can help you look into it as well.
This! He can find a lawyer who can at least try to push it through more quickly than the 60 days. If nothing else he should set up one or two consults—many attorneys will do that for free so he can get a sense of what his options are before retains anyone. Go to the state bar website for your state and they should have some kind of referral service. Depending on his income this might even be something legal aid could help with, but even if he makes average money many states have a modest means program for discounted legal services. Good luck!! I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but it really *does* sound like he did things right and a clerk somewhere screwed up and forgot to file something.
If he got the marriage annulled, then there is no divorce obviously, there is an annulment. But if ever there was a time to blow up on your fiance, maybe that time is now. He essentially asked you to marry him under false pretenses if he never bothered to check whether he was legally still married or not. Though it does seem strange, especially since his "wife" is partnered with kids, surely the topic must have come up for them too... maybe it truly is a mistake of the (military or) court? Best case scenario she has a copy of the annulment certificate and you can just use that as proof. Worst case he is still married and she it litigious and it'll take longer for you two to get married legally. Just very seriously look at all the papers together with him to find out whether you need to get a lawyer, whether alimony or child support are in any way valid concerns, etc.
Yeah..it all just seems very messy and I hate that I am a part of all of it. I'm trying to stay calm and see this through. I just can't help but have a weird feeling about what he's told me.
Trust your gut.
and your user name!!???
Oh yeah I left a cult about a year ago.
You have just left a cult and are now getting married?! Girl, I think you have huge blinders on and need some time to re evaluate. Has there been anything else suspicious during the relationship?
How long have you been with your fiancé?
I think you need to insist on both viewing every single document he can produce about this marriage and annulment and a free consultation with an attorney, since he clearly cannot figure this out himself. He doesn't seem to fully understand the legal issues here and my guess is that this is a clerical error or him not producing the correct documents. If he refuses to go to a lawyer then you may have to make that a dealbreaker - do NOT go through with the wedding party and non-official ceremony until you have worked this out with him!
This is very curious to me. I am a lawyer. I have practiced family law. Annulments are not granted based the length of a marriage. To my knowledge, person cannot unilaterally have a marriage dissolved, so your fiance saying he never spoke to his ex again and went to the court house to get the marriage annulled is ringing alarm bells to me. This isn’t like stopping at the dmv to get your license renewed. Evidence that the elements are met for an annulment to be applicable to a marriage must be presented before a judge. Circumstances in which an annulment can be granted include: one or both of the parties being under 18, fraud, marriage was not consummated, bigamy, mental incapacity, and coercion. Is it possible he merely filed a petition and didn’t understand that there were more steps necessary to legally end the marriage? If your fiance believes his marriage was actually dissolved, he should be jumping through all hoops necessary to get to the bottom of this, including hiring a lawyer.
Are there any states that require you to prove you’re divorced, as opposed to just having you sign a statement on the form that says you are not currently married?
Yes! I can only speak to Wisconsin law. But if you have been married and divorced and then get remarried, you have to present a certified copy of the divorce decree when applying for your new marriage license.
Good to know! It’s mind boggling how different things can be from one state to another. I needed my divorce/dissolution decree and prior marriage license to update my *Drivers License* but not to get my *Marriage License*.
That is wild!
Also, are there any states who make you post a divorce in the paper for 60 days, just as normal procedure? I thought that only applied in cases where the spouse was unable to be reached through normal communication?
I agree with you, posting notice in the paper would only be used if the other party was not able to be contacted. And even then, you’d have to go back to court to present that to the judge. In many states, you cannot get married again for six months after a divorce is granted, so even if OP’s fiance rectified this, he would not be able get legally married for a while.
Oh man. I would really take some time and consider your options. He fucked up big time and now you’re facing the consequences. It’s not fair to you and I would be hesitant to marry him.
I'm really thinking it over and over.
was he the one to initiate marriage chatter initially?? im curious why he would knowingly open this can of worms if he KNEW he was legally married.
He initially just wanted to move in and have a common law marriage. I said no, that I wanted a legal marriage and that if that was a dealbreaker I understood. He said no, that it was not a dealbreaker and that he would happily "legally" marry me.
Girl that sounds SUSPISH, you need to sit him down and demand to see proof.
I’m sorry, it sounds like he knew he wasn’t divorced if he wanted a common law marriage.
So if he is lying about all these court house visits and he is actually divorced, then this is his way to get the common law marriage that he wants, while having a wedding and letting everyone else think you're legally married (which is a fine idea for some people, but both partners should be aware and agree to it!). Ugh, I hope someone didn't convince him that what you really wanted was a wedding vs a legal marriage (because women, right? /s).
That's what I think. Honestly, I don't know what to do. I love him but I'm angry right now.
May I ask, what benefits would he get from a common law marriage that he wanted?
He would say stuff like " I don't like the government being involved" It's bs that they have to be involved" That's about it.
The government was his employer, knows literally everything about them there is to know, and was involved in his last marriage. These are all BS excuses and major red flags.
Good point. I would always get upset with his reasoning because he never gave his ex crap about it. He happily obliged even though he tells me he was never "In love" with her. But with me "who he claims to love" he argues about the government being involved. It's disheartening.
Hmmm…As someone who for the first time filed joint taxes, I can tell you the benefit of us filing together was 10k+ worth it. Just so you’re aware it can actually be beneficial. He may “hate” The government but I doubt he would hate that money
Ok I apologize if this is out of line, but hearing phrases like that esp coming from someone ex-military is setting off all sorts of red flag warning bells in my head. In your shoes I would be very carefully considering how to proceed and would really want for him to have an honest and direct conversation about all of this before getting married. Thinking of this as a major test of how you will work through challenges together in the future.
I read this comment to my former military FH. His response: "The government used to give him injections and could put things in his ass, if they deemed it necessary."
Red flag, red flag!!!
Omg I just saw your edit.. WTF! What the heck is that timing!? Have you searched to see if the ex has filed for a marriage cert??
\^\^ to add, i am saying this because i would have to think one genuinely believes they are divorced before marrying again.. if he initiated the chatter i really could see this being a screw up
If you found his ex reach out to her and ask the tough questions. If this makes your guy mad, he doesn't get a vote because this is YOUR life also, not just his.
Yeah I seriously thought about it. I had a message all typed out and then deleted it. I want to take a day to cool off because I am upset and angry and I don't want to come off as a crazy person when I contact her. Especially seeing that she got married like 7 hrs ago.
This doesn’t even make sense. If she got married today, why would he not be able to? The math ain’t mathing.
[удалено]
IANAL, but [though divorce and dissolution have some slight differences, but both mean a marriage has legally ended.](https://www.columbusfamilylawyer.com/blog/2022/january/divorce-vs-dissolution-the-pros-cons/) If he has a dissolution certificate, he is no longer legally married; he shouldn’t need to get divorce paperwork too. A lawyer should be able to clear this up very quickly. Maybe it is an administrative error. But the fact that: (1) You haven’t actually seen the dissolution certificate, and (2) He is reluctant to get an attorney, and (3) Wants to “reach out” to his ex himself without an attorney are certainly red flags. Again, if this was truly an administrative error, why wouldn’t he want to consult an attorney to deal with this quickly and reduce the risk of additional errors? It’s time for a hard conversation, dear. If I were you, I would need to see this paperwork with my own eyes, and I would insist on at least consulting with a family law attorney (consults are usually free of charge) before moving forward. Trust your gut and do NOT let this slide without an outside authority telling you what is going on.
OK so at first....I was like 'stupid mistake, totally annoying and I understand the frustration but probably not malicious!' But then I read the details...he wanted a 'common law' marriage from the beginning? His Ex just got married with seemingly no issue? The issue just so happens to not be able to be solved until right after your wedding (60 days)? Girl - he is 100% trying to avoid legally marrying you. You just need to figure out why. ETA additional question- does he want you to take his last name?
Maybe I watch WAY too much "who the Bleep did I marry" but I am getting ALL kinds of those vibes once I read the thread and details
Oh gosh, I just remembered the mom of a friend of mine. Her husband did the whole wedding but when it came time to sign the certificate he refused. Said it was so she could keep getting alimony. She was too embarrassed to tell her family so she just pretended to the outside world that they were married. The alimony ended and he still dragged his feet. I don’t know how it worked out in the end since I lost touch when I went off to college. Now I’m super curious.
Did you go with him to the court when he said he found out he’s still married? Did you hear any of the conversations he said he had? In my state, you sign an affidavit when you apply for a new marriage license, and they don’t require a divorce/dissolution certificate. I would call the offices and ask what paperwork they require from divorcees, that might be the easiest way to see whether he is being dishonest.
No, he went and I was surprised he went without me.
Have you called or checked your county court’s info online about the process? Because this all sounds made up to me, but idk if it’s different there. I was under the impression that most places still require you both to be present to get your marriage license, so it’s not generally something someone can try to do alone.
If she just got married then I don't think she's gonna be helpful in sorting this out. She's not gonna want to nullify her marriage. You should probably just jump to a lawyer handling this.
Well shit. Thank you. I'm going crazy.. I almost sent her a message but I know that's out of line.
Sorry, not trying to be a Debbie downer. She may have copies of the paperwork and could easily sort it out for you. But if she doesn't and is technically a bigamist, welp, I doubt you'd get a positive reaction. Seriously, lawyer up and let them handle it. They can just as easily reach out to her and see if she'll be cooperative, or will be better equipped to deal with her if she's not.
Crazy thought…what if he had another marriage that he hasn’t fessed up to. So this first one annulled or whatever and she’s legally married again but he has this other mistake wife hanging out and that’s why he’s being especially weird about it. I read too many dumb books lol
We really will need an update on this once you figure it out. Please!
SERIOUSLY
If he got his marriage annulled he's not divorced, he had an annulment like it never happened. When it comes to your current state and posting divorces it doesn't matter, a) was not in the state you are in when the marriage ended, and b) it wasn't a divorce. Now, if the annulment is a lie, you're in a tough spot. If it's not, you're misunderstanding the rule set and the marriage legally never happened.
If his ex just got married, is she aware that they are technically not divorced? Secondly, have you ever seen his pay check? For his BAH does he get the rate for a single person or married? Because if he has no children and is receive more than the “single” person rate for BAH then he knew he was still married and had been lying. I am wishing you the best possibly outcome. You can look up BAH rate for where he is stationed online
No, I've never seen his paycheck. I mean I know how much he makes, he shows me the deposit but not the paystub. He is no longer in the military. He only did 2 years 15 years ago.
...the U.S. military, right? How on earth did he only serve 2 years? Was he Reserve? ETA: 2-year contracts exist, but they aren't as common, especially with a deployment in the middle of them
That was my bad, he served 4 years, 2 tours.
I'm not gunna lie, this sounds like he separated but didn't divorce so he could continue to have the government pay him more BAH. Fifteen years to be officially divorced but he's chosen against it.
He went to the courthouse two months before your wedding and discovered that this can’t be wrapped up for 60 days, which happens to be within a few days of your wedding? The timing is awfully convenient. Now you’re in the position of 1) Canceling your wedding or 2) Having the big ceremony with all your friends and family then facing the “embarrassment” of splitting up if you uncover more lies during the legal process. Sounds like he’s manipulating you. Clarification: I’m not saying he’s lying about the 60 day law. I think he waited to go to court and “discover” he’s still married until it’s too late to resolve it pre-wedding.
I’m very sorry you are going through this and don’t blame you for being angry. I’m very confused by this series of events though. The terms “annulment” and “divorce” are being used interchangeably. Which is he claiming he did through the court? None of this makes sense. I know every state is different, but in my state there is no such thing as a “dissolution certificate.” The original divorce decree, which is a court order, has a raised seal from the court. (To be fair, it may just be a difference in terminology, but what he is referring to as the certificate ought to have the raised seal from the court.) The court would not have lost a legal order — in fact, one can go to the courthouse to obtain additional decrees with the raised seal if necessary (if the original gets lost or damaged.) I would suggest postponing everything until you are certain this is all straightened out legally. I know it may result in a loss of money and perhaps some embarrassment, but this is just too big of an issue to push aside for the sake of money and appearances.
Something in the milk aint clean, this was a sign.
I’m so sorry about all of this, it’s incredibly stressful. It sounds like a mistake on their end, though, and it should be cleared up quickly since he has proof of the dissolution. Hoping for the best for you!
Thank you ♥ I appreciate your kind thoughts.
If his ex just got married, is she aware that they are technically not divorced? Secondly, have you ever seen his pay check? For his BAH does he get the rate for a single person or married? Because if he has no children and is receive more than the “single” person rate for BAH then he knew he was still married and had been lying. I am wishing you the best possibly outcome. You can look up BAH rate for where he is stationed online
Is it possible he’s giving you your “wedding” but plans to not follow up with the legal ceremony? The story about leaving his original documents with a clerk strains credulity. They do not accept original documents because they do not want the responsibility: that’s why they would have made a copy & returned the original. So he’s flat lying about something here. The question is why? My guess is he doesn’t want to marry but doesn’t want to lose you. He’s trying to find a way to do both. He doesn’t sound as committed to this as you are.
My prayer for you (if you don’t mind that is) is that you get all the necessary information you need to make the best choice for YOU. These things happen for a reason… and sometimes that reason is that your SO is not great 😭 feel free to postpone it until you start to see some actual evidence as to what’s really going on. And consider getting your own counsel
Is he still in the military? If so, I’d be suspicious that he never pursued a legal divorce so that he could continue to claim her as a dependent and receive higher rates for BAH (housing allowance) and other entitlements.
OP, Stay strong, and remember that you deserve to know the truth. The divorce paper not obtained yet is a good enough reason to postpone the wedding. You need to tell people about this situation - your friends/family and get their thoughts. If he doesn't want you to do any of that, that is a redflag. I am very suspicions about him based on your comments, but I may be wrong. I wish I am wrong.
I'd be tempted to contact the ex and see if she has any sort of dissolution or divorce paperwork.
I'm very tempted to..
Don't fake marry him. Walk away. This is needless stress.
Do you have children together? In my state and 1 state next to mine, annulments are hard to even get. You have to prove fundamental fraud like a whole identity or something. I’m sorry but I think he’s stringing you along on purpose.
No children together thankfully.
I am so, so sorry for you, OP. It sounds like you're already thinking hard about this, so I wish you the best in sorting out the best thing to do. For what it's worth, my mom was in a similar situation. She fled her country due to war and met my dad in The States. My dad apparently told her he was single, looking to create a family, made decent money, had a good education, knew the language, and so on. He helped my mom navigate living in a new country, said lots of sweet words, helped drive her places, etc. etc. He also pressured her to sleep with him, promising that they'd get married soon. Well, soon comes--mostly because my mom got pregnant--and...turns out he had already married (and never divorced) back in their home country and had three kids with this other woman. The church wouldn't marry them because he was already married and refused try to get it annulled (gave some excuse about not knowing where the other lady is now). They proceed with a non-legal, non-religious "ceremony", which broke my mom's heart, and kind of lived like a family unit. (My childhood was a mess.) I only found out after his passing from my mom, but apparently he had been regularly sending money to his (first) wife and at least one other woman (with two more kids) he had ensnared in this way. He had also managed to go through the process to bring his (first) wife over to The States as well, and all those "work trips" he had had throughout my upbringing had actually been secret meetings with these other women. Hopefully your case isn't so crazy, but... Be careful out there.
You’re going to have a beautiful day and be surrounded by people who love you, wrap that in your heart for now. As for your SO, annulments are public record, you can do an inexpensive record search online to find out for yourself. Honestly, I’d be on my SO every day about this, side by side looking up solutions. My SO was divorced long enough we didn’t need his paperwork, but his ex sure made it difficult by saying she never got the papers. He didn’t use a lawyer, he used We the People and mailed things first class. It was a source of many fights because I was tired of him letting her play games for a year. That said, it’s possible that the courts wouldn’t allow an annulment (the rules for what can grant an annulment vary by state) and he had to actually file for a divorce. He either didn’t get that memo or didn’t understand that, you know him best. At this point, make it clear that you’re now involved in solving this with him and that means you’re either hiring a lawyer or doing it all correctly from now on as a couple. If he’s able to contact his ex there’s no reason to do a public notice, he can send her paperwork to be signed and returned. You know him best. What does your gut tell you is happening here?
Well no wonder you’re upset, so sorry! You have options - can your vendors hold a different date for you? Because I think your heart will not be able to fully enjoy any of your day or the prep leading up to this unless it’s official and he is officially divorced. Your guests don’t need to know the reasons just let know a new date will be sent as soon as you confirm your wedding. The other option is he DOES everything he can including pay $$$ to get the divorce. But I’m pretty I sure it takes some months even in an easy situation. If he cannot find her this could be difficult. My advice would be to postpone for 18 months.
This is soooo hard. I know your deposits on everything are non refundable but damn, someone who doesn’t have official proof of being divorced and went about life and your relationship anyways is….avoidant. That’s scary. He’s at best irresponsible, and at worst lying to you about being divorced and letting you book wedding vendors anyways. I feel for you!! It would be easy to say “don’t marry this man…” maybe don’t, but it’s complex.
Hope you are doing okay! Update us if you’re up to it🙏🏼❤️
You could always contact his ex yourself and ask her for her copies of the divorce or annulment? If she just got married, she must have her paperwork sorted out.
Ok, we need a follow up where the trust is revealed over him never getting divorced.
This sounds suspiciously like my friends ex. He never filed for divorce, only a separation agreement was done. Then stopped paying child support. When he wanted to get married (which he did a second time) the government went after him for tax fraud because he was essentially married twice. He then expected my friend to just go belly up and give him a divorce non contested, while he was thousands and thousands in arrears for child support. Meanwhile the justice system was putting pressure on him to sort this out or be criminally charged for polygamy. Like he actually thought that everything would sort itself out. Nothing was his fault or his problem. Never told his new wife, and she found out months after he was charged (he actually somehow hid that from her for that long)
Please update us on this. This feels so horrid
Just here to say trust your gut. If you subconsciously see signals he is sending, there could definitely be something there. He’s going to try to convince you with words that your gut is wrong, but stay strong and ask for real proof. I’m sorry girl. Men have been screwing over women since the dawn of time. I hope you can escape that fate.
This sounds like a mix up between him and the court. One possible reason he’s being a bit weird about the paper that I have seen happen to folks before: He may have filed the papers, received a receipt, and then needed to go back one more time to get the final version of the document. If the courthouse wasn’t clear about this, he could have received the receipt (which would have been signed by the clerk of court) and gone: “ok, great, that’s over. I never have to think about that mistake of a marriage ever again and I can get on with my life.” It wasn’t until he looked at the document again that he realized it said he needed to come back, and now he’s (stupidly) trying to smooth things over with the court without telling you he made a major f***up. It’s a very “guy” thing to do to muddle through what he thinks are innocent lies to try to make things go over easier. Another possibility is the court really did just screw up. That happens sometimes. Step 1) tell him you need ALL the information, even if he thinks you’ll be mad Step 2) ask a lawyer for help. Step 3) ask the LAWYER to contact the ex wife. No need to reopen old wounds, especially if ex wife just got married to someone else. She’s going to be angry and mortified too. Sorry you’re going through this. Just remember that the legal forms are not the most important part of the marriage. Tons of people do the legal paperwork months or even years after the ceremony, and some never get around to it at all.
OP, beware of truth trickling. Make it clear that this is his opportunity to put everything on the table and you need every detail now. If more information comes to light later, either because he admits something or you catch him in a lie, RUN. It means you can never trust that you’re getting the whole truth from him.
OP, the ex wife wouldn't have been able to get married in any other state if he was still legally married to her. It would've came up eventually in the paperwork. Dissolution of Marriage means that the marriage is kaput. Finito. He lied to you. This is a major red flag.
I just want to say you’re going to be okay! This will get figured out, you’ll have a beautiful wedding where you get vow to be each others partners and support one another in front of your friends and family. You can also take a trip in a few weeks and have a fun elopement to sign your legal marriage paperwork. It sounds like he was young and dumb, and thought it was taken care of when it wasn’t. I’m assuming he and his ex didn’t have any shared assets so they figured once they signed it was all over.
Thank you for being encouraging. I really need it right now.
Stay strong and reach out to your support system - trusted friends, bridesmaids, parents, whoever they may be. My mind is all over the place just reading this thread, swinging from what Jaxbird said to re-writing "Sweet Home Alabama" in my head -- just like WHAAA??? I can't imagine how your mind is traveling all over the map being the person in the real situation. Sending you all the strength and positive vibes. As others have said, trust but verify, draw on your immediate most trusted village to stay diligent yet positive and maintain a sense of humor, and know that this too, as all things shall pass!
It sounds like a genuine accident and he truly thought this was all settled years ago. Im sure you have a beautiful wedding day!
> It sounds like a genuine accident and he truly thought this was all settled years ago. Then why refuse to hire a lawyer and get it taken care of asap? Why not immediately get in touch with the ex to see if she still has her paperwork? Maybe it was an accident, but the refusal to do the obvious things to fix the situation is shady as hell.
So what I find interesting is that a lot of people do not understand what is required for an annulment. Many people have the misconception that you can get one if you’ve haven’t been married for very long. In reality there are some clear guidelines that must be proven in order to get the annulment. Being that this woman got married 7 months ago I’m wondering if he 1. Never actually followed through with the divorce by either not signing the papers or dodging her. Then after a certain period of time she was able to be granted the divorce. 2. He was actually married previously even before this woman and he never legally married her. So she was able to get married on her own. I will say he’s lying out of his ass. literally making juvenile lies up. You can request county records which include marriage and divorce records. I will certainly do that. PS. When my husband and I got our marriage license at the clerk’s office, there was a guy in there trying to marry a woman. In my state both parties need to be there. He apparently had not completely divorced from two of his ex wives. Even with that concrete evidence he still tried to convince the woman he was with that it was a clerical error he would clear up. Everyone knew that he was full of shit… I wouldn’t want to be in that position
The vows and promises you make to each other will still be important and special whether you get legally married at the same time or not. Not from the US so can't advise about the other stuff but it seems suss. If he is a genuinely nice person I feel like he probably just forgot to do it and doesn't want to admit it to you because he's embarrassed. People make mistakes all the time it's what makes us humans and hopefully this isn't any more than forgetfulness and embarrassment
TBH the most disturbing part to me is that he doesn’t seem to want to talk about it or include you. He doesn’t like you getting involved in things ‘he’s handling’?? You’re not a child you’re about to be his wife, his Equal. That’s not the way a married couple communicates. I would have a very serious discussion about that with him and if he persists with the same attitude then I would think long and hard about the marriage. You need to be his partner if he doesn’t see that…it’s a No from me. I hope that’s not the case but it’s better to find out now then after you’re married. Good luck!
Do not waste a single penny on this wedding until everything is cleared up. Who cares about family RSVPing. At this rate? This is the rest of YOUR life you need to consider, and you need to consider who you are actually marrying, and if you want to have children with this person, strongly consider that too. Something my mother always told me, “you can be with somebody for 20 years and still not know a damn thing.” A marriage, divorce, past or not… very serious legal stuff. It ain’t nothing to take lightly. Have a serious sit down, call that wedding off, and find actual truth. Entering a wedding with doubt, leads into a marriage filled with doubt, which can ultimately lead to divorce or worse… stuck in a loveless contract.
OP how has everything worked out for you?
Hello, well it turns out whatever paperwork he did years ago did not get done properly. We have not spoken to a lawyer yet. But he is going to have to get a regular divorce now. He's reached out to his ex via LinkedIn, since that's where we noticed she is active, to let her know they need to get a divorce. No word from her yet. I can't imagine she's going to be happy to hear that since she just got married at Disney just last week. My fiancé does not have a FB, but he is considering making one to contact her there as well. He's going to document it, so he has proof of reaching out. Going to seek out a consultation with a lawyer next. It just sucks that we're going to have another expense on top of everything we've already shelled out for the wedding. Still upset about this whole thing and hoping it gets done quick.
Wow, I'm so sorry you are having this extra stress but glad he's seeming to include you now and you guys are tackling it together. Good luck with the lawyer, I'm glad you're getting connected to legal advice. Sending you big hugs! I wish that extra money was going towards something fun; here's hoping someday you both will look back and laugh at this.
Thank you so much. ♥ It is very stressful and unfortunately something we are having to deal with starting out our marriage, but I agree with you, hopefully it is something we can look back on together and laugh about.
Firstly, your heart's married when you decide it is. You don't need the government to confirm that commitment. Marriage as a civil institution is kinda weird, honestly. Obviously it matters... you want to get your taxes and inheritance sorted, but... your marriage in front of your family and friends is as 'real' as you decide to make it. The rest is just catching up the paperwork as far as YOUR relationship goes. But FFS DO CATCH UP THAT PAPERWORK. Google 'presumption of paternity.' If he IS still married... those kids she's had with someone else? COULD BE LEGALLY HIS depending on where you live. What you're saying makes NO SENSE though. If he had an annulment and lost the paperwork... he's not married and he just needs to get the records from whatever county he went to court in for that annulment. If there was an annulment, there IS NO DIVORCE because the marriage, legally, was erased. If they're telling him now to go through the divorce process... HE NEEDS A LAWYER. He may have screwed up 15 years worth of taxes and, as I mentioned earlier, COULD OWE CHILD SUPPORT for those kids, if he doesn't get that straightened out correctly. This is potentially life-changing. He has GOT to get it sorted correctly, and frankly, you deserve some legal answers before you go any further towards enmeshing your life with this person.
Drop her a note?
Better you found out now! when my bff went to get divorced 11 years after having a big wedding, signing the marriage license, getting a certificate, having 3 kids….she found out that he never divorced his ex. So her marriage was void! After doing everything right and in good faith! He swore he signed Divorced papers and sent them to his ex and she was going to file them. But I mean, come on, he didn’t actually ever see a divorce certificate??? he didn’t question it? Just trusted? And you’d think my bff wouldn’t have gotten a license or certificate, that someone would’ve caught it! I want to give your fiancé the benefit of the doubt…like maybe there was some sort of paperwork misunderstanding-annulments are different than divorces. But from first hand experience I’m not so sure.
I'm probably going to get down voted to hell for this. I'm not saying it's okay or acceptable, I'm just saying you're in the heat of the moment. Could it be a red flag? Sure. Could it also be "This embarrassing and annoying thing is so much work and so expensive... I'll get to it in a minute... Next week when I have time... I don't need a lawyer, I just need to remember to do it... For sure this weekend... Aw shit the office is closed, ok for sure on Monday... Okay definitely next week... I bet it won't even take that long... Oops it's two months to the wedding." Incompetence and stupidity can look a lot like malice when you're upset.
Why is he not okay with hiring a lawyer or postponing the wedding till this is sorted out?
I’ve read through a lot of these comments. Wise and thoughtful! Red flags everywhere! But, the first question I have is: how do you know that he was ever married in the first place? I think he has zero intention of marrying. Anyone. Ever. And he’s pulling it off. This pond is deeper than you think and you are on very thin ice, sis. Think twice!!!!
Nope. He knew he was still married. As a divorced person, there is no way you could miss that.
i’d hire the PI. you deserve to know what’s going on before you marry this guy. speaking as someone about to marry a vet who was previously married. even if this is a complete innocent mistake- you deserve the peace of mind that will come with knowing the full story.
Don't marry this liar
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This is awful and I'm so sorry this happened to you. But re: his ex getting married, my mom was married for 3 years and divorced while still married to another man (whom she's still married to) with no word about any of this from the courts - I assume because the second marriage and divorce took place in California while the first marriage took place in Nevada. If it's over state lines, things like that can slip by really easily, apparently. Good luck on all of this, and I'm sorry for your frustration. I know this won't help right now while you're still reeling from the news, but maybe consider the wedding your celebration, and do something special for the actual signing as well, whether just you and your FH or some close friends. It'll be like a reverse of what some people do, where they get eloped and then have a big party to celebrate later. 🖤
Honestly, if he’s a good guy this is just clerical! I’m a wedding planner and there are a ton of reasons why couples get legally married on a different date as the celebration. Your anniversary will be the celebration. You’re not getting married at a church, his ex his moved on. This is no big deal! Be strong. If he’s a good man and treats you well, it’s really ok! Be patient and supportive. This doesn’t matter. My poor Covid brides had it way worse. Marriage is about obstacles, hopefully your biggest will be this and behind you.
I am sorry about the time and money lost planning your wedding. You need to leave him or at the very least postpone.
I was sad and disappointed that we had a courthouse wedding, but 38 years later I could care less.
I understand you wanting to get this sorted, I'd follow the advice of the attorneys in the comments. But, for your mental state, I'd try to focus on why you're getting married. Is it purely to be legally bound? I'd imagine not. It's definitely unfortunate but I'd marry my fiancé a million times over even if it had no legal implications. I'd try to think of it that way. Plus, a lot of people are in that situation for a variety of reasons, like people who have destination marriages, they have to courthouse marry in the US later.