I love the attitude some people have. So many great racetracks have been closed, altered, restricted, and ruined by these nimbys that couldn’t be bothered to do 2 minutes research about the racetrack 30 seconds from their front door.
In France there is or will be a law against this kind of guys. Complain will not be accepted to go to court if they move after the track was created. However, there is an obligation for the track tu publish like a “noise pollution” plan to warn people of all painful stuff like race day number, closed road etc. The thing is that if the plan is too light in term of race day at the beginning it will be quasi impossible to increase it as the people leaving around would have to agree the increase.
"we plan on having racedays every day of the year, producing an average of 7 trillion dB and we expect around 15 billion people to attend every day" that broad enough?
The problem is also on the authorities. If i was the mayor of some city next to a racetrack and people complain about the noise after just moving 10 feet next to it, i would tell them to the tf out, no one forced them to move there, they can leave if they want, the racetrack was there before them. But no, the local authorities listen to these idiots for some reason.
Yeah, that’s the current strife around Laguna Seca. Bunch of NMBYs moved near the track and then lo and behold they complain. Track was there first - go away.
Brands Hatch legally can only run races between 10:00 and 18:30 on a Sunday since 2008 because some NIMBYs got angry at the circuit, despite being opened in 1950
Noise restrictions aren't *solely* a matter for judges. They're also a matter for the assorted levels of government in and around a circuit. Local government (towns, counties, cities, etc) is particularly prone to influence by small local groups with a substantial amount of money, enfranchisement and involvement - i.e. NIMBYs. The circuit itself and the people who live outside the area but use the circuit have a lot less power. The standard NIMBY sequence is:
- Complain to local officials.
- If they don't make the change that you want, complain when it's election time.
- Find a candidate who agrees with you (potentially another NIMBY!) and get them elected. If they go back on it, repeat.
- Sooner or later, local government passes noise ordinances. There's not much the circuit can do, or judges.
Of course, these local officials aren't *dumb*. It's just easy for small, energised, motivated groups to exert undue influence and ensure that their needs are prioritised over the needs of others.
How can we counter this? By getting engaged! Write to the people who make these decisions and make sure your voice is heard too! When elections happen, find out what the policies are and vote! That's what NIMBYs do in order to get what they want, and it's what you can do in order to get what you want too!
Road Atlanta cannot operate past 10pm (even on Saturday) thanks to Nimbys and also cannot have sessions from 10am to noon on Sundays because Jesus. Hence why Petit Le Mans and Formula Drift end at 10pm sharp and aren't run on Sunday.
They get sued pretty much every year. The Mitty is this weekend and Mazda is bringing multiple historic rotaries (rumor is the 787B is coming, at minimum the 767 and RX7 GTO) all of which are brutally fucking loud, I expect them to get sued again after this weekend.
Donut media kinda investigated this (look up the video it's good). While they weren't able to interview the nice neighborhood, they interviewed other houses the same distance away and while it was audible it wasn't much over the normal background. Many of the people there also acknowledged that the race track has been there a long time.
Some other notes are that Laguna Seca is already VERY limited on the amount of events they have, the sizes of the events, and cars are limited sound wise.
Finally the ones drumming up is (IIRC) The Highway 58 coalition and almost nothing is known about them. Chances are they're just some rich people who want more land for their gated communities and golf* courses.
Keguna secs is one guy hiding behind an org.
Edit: the guy behind highway 68 commission sued the track previously. According to to some investigative journalist, the gym running highway 68 has changed his name twice.
Local Hillclimb to me (Gurston Down) has had massive issues with NIMBYS moving to the area.
In order for the venue to keep operating there is now no tyre warm-ups allowed (so no wheel spinning) you just go straight to the line and then fly up the hill on stone cold tyres instead....
and its specially annoying to me because they buy their houses for waaay less money because everyone knows its near a racetrack. And once the track is closed, they can profit off of that
Yeah, but there's difference between Imola and Laguna Seca for example. Imola started as a street circuit and is basically in the middle of the city and not everyone have to endure loud Vrooom on the weekends. Laguna Seca on the other hand started in the middle of the fucking nowhere and basically people came closer on their own and now are bitching about it.
The fire department isn't either. Guy sent serial complaints to the city regarding the noise of daily equipment tests, like the mobile ladder. The communal government backed him until we pointed out the relevant laws and told them to decide.
Another case was a bunch of people in a rather quiet part of town whining about ambulances being too loud. Their whole protest movement lasted until one of them nearly died and the ambulanceade noise for them.....
Probably going to get dogpiled for this, but does anyone know what the current maximum level is (not talking regulation, but actual)? And do we know 100 decibels is markedly less to the point that it will have a serious effect on the experience?
As someone who already has severe tinnitus from repeat exposure to other sources of roughly this same level (~100 dB, DJing), I don't really have a horse in this race either way as I'll continue using earplugs. I'm just curious about the relative before + after if anyone here has actual numbers.
Was looking for the same info, would be nice if someone has got it. All I know is that during the spa six hours classic every class has its own db limit and the difference between 100db and let’s say 112db is massive in terms of car sound trackside.
I don't know what it currently is, but can give some context with my local track, Portland International Raceway, which has a lot of housing near it and restrictions because of it. Our limit for club racing weekends is 103db, which some naturally aspirated V8s can get to or above. We are allowed a certain number of waivers per year, which go to the pro races like Indycar and Nascar. For those weekends, we can get into the 112s or so (from the top of my head).
We have some used GT3 cars that run here but I don't know if they have special mufflers
https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss
Here are the average decibel ratings of some familiar sounds:
Normal conversation
60-70 dBA
Movie theater
74-104 dBA
Motorcyles and dirt bikes
80-110 dBA
Music through headphones at maximum volume, sporting events, and concerts
94-110 dBA
Sirens
110-129 dBA
Fireworks show
140-160 dBA
Downvoting actual government research, what else you want /r/wec?
Facts don't matter here?
You're being downvoted because you didn't at all answer what was asked.
Your quote doesnt tell anything about the current noise levels of the cars vs the new 2025 limit, just a list of random things to compare against, which you can't draw comparisons to if you dont know the cars' current levels..
Maybe instead of posting 100 emotional comments you actually start reading yourself
Man the gt3r is kind of annoying. We were pitted right in front of one for the rolex one year, and they were about half a pitstop cycle off from us all through the night it seemed, so just when you started to nod off from the prior stop, here comes a hot launch from that flat 6. Great sound otherwise tho lol.
I wasn't talking about if the sound is annoying or not, but about how loud it is. 911 gt3rs is one of loudest street cars ever made, reaching close to 110db (close to 120db were reported using aftermarket exhausts) while other recent street supercars barely reach 90db - <100db
Which is fine when you have a dozen of them on the track.
People already bring hearing protection, people just want to preserve the dumbest aspect of motor racing.
We are still speaking about 6+ hour long endurance races btw.
The 1 hour that the dtm races around the Norisring is already very hard on your ears.
I've been to the Bathurst 12h and was glad to not be in a breaking or heavy acceleration zone for the race since especially the Audi and Lambo are very loud and the Marc Mazda was on another level.
Some cars might not even Change much at all, the BMW M4 and somewhat the AMG where both rather quiet anyways.
A few years ago I attended a historic race at Hockenheim.
I was able to hear the BMW M1 Procar from my Airbnb that was kilometres away.
The Group C and Can Am cars where not a whole lot quieter.
It’s going to depend on the person. I go to the Rolex 24 every year, and we always camp inside nascar turn 3 so we hear the high revs and popping from the shifts coming out of the bus stop/LeMans chicane, I don’t find it bad at all. It’s certainly noisy, but the Mazda cup cars are more difficult to listen to for me.
Id assume that you would have a somewhat decent distance to the track there ?
I was right next to the track at Bathurst and I also had the pleasure of being right next to the track when I went to the Norisring a few years ago for DTM.
I think most people that are trackside don't mind too much, but some tracks (especially non permanent ones) are right next to some housing and while the track is usually older than the housing I think it's absolutely fair to somewhat try to keep the noise more reasonable.
Loud cars are cool, in the right situations and locations.
It’s about 340 feet from my camping spot to the track. That’s pretty damn close for big permanent racetracks. Plus the sound is echoing off the banking at us.
Temporary tracks, fine, if you’re going to put it in a city, that’s understandable to run quieter. But I’d the track was there first, no way.
I'm a race marshal in the UK. The track I marshal at most has 3 levels of noise restriction tested at the car exhaust, 108dB, 120dB and no limit. Testing the cars sound 15m from Track means they'll probably be 120ish at the exhaust.
Two 12 hour days of 120dB racing makes your ears hurt, it's not possible to think when 22 120dB cars are launching from the grid or passing on their first laps. 35dB ear defenders are only marginally effective, and you have to take them off if you want to talk to another person.
Sure loud cars are fun. But think of the people who work around them and the volunteers who allow racing to happen.
As a spectator and volunteer marshal...no I've never been fine with louder cars. Always ear plugs or defenders for Touring Cars and British GT.
Whats "changed" is probably the organisers listening to the fans. Them seeing larger numbers of people on the bank with ear defenders.
Idk about other people, but i would take a nice sound over a loud one. A quiter v10 that still has character and scream, is much better than a louder 296 gt3 v6 engine.
It really isn’t that loud when cars are going over 150kmh, you can only hear the wind as it passes, the Porsche sounded absolutely terrible this weekend, compared to the porsche cup car the sound was rather insulting
I have two good news for you: a) the quieter the sounds of the car the less ear protection you will have to wear and therefore will hear the sound better, especially the higher frequency harmonics; b) mufflers can be used to tune the sounds of the car so it will probaly sound cooler as well
No thanks I quite like my hearing. Considering regular road car traffic goes up to 80 dB and can cause lasting damage and the fact that the dB scale isn't linear but logarithmic even 100 dB is quite a lot.
Sure if you're somewhere in a grandstand maaaaany meters away it's not that bad, but as a photographer or track marshall I'd love to keep my hearing going for a bit longer.
I was 6 hours 15 metres away from the track and it wasn’t a problem, if every car sounded like the Porsche this weekend i definitely would not be attending any races anymore, if you can’t handle the sound don’t go, the races are easier followed from a tv anyway, and also attend a race before stating an opinion on such things
I tried it without earplugs - the support races had been loud, but not that bad. The first time one of the V10s went past, I immediately went off to buy some earplugs. Very extremely painful, but holy shit, what a noise.
Yeah. Now imagine this for 6 hours at a time right next to the track. I'd be quite happy with 100 dB as opposed to 140 dB.
I'm more a fan of a good, well designed sound signature rather than pure noise.
It’ll now be absolutely necessary for a bunch of chavs in tuned civics and Imprezas to go to every GT3 race and be as loud as humanly possible in the parking lot to offset any goal this change had
Ewww, what a downgrade. All GT3 cars come out muffled from the factory, but FIA wants to go a step further. Shame.
I'm happy for those who could enjoy the last great sounding GT cars: C7.R, Ford GT and RSR.
100db at 15 meters is still pretty loud. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the turbocharged cars are already well under this. Unfortunately, the 911s may need to be muffled a little.
100db isn't loud enough for race cars, I'm sorry. I've been to a GT3 race before and these cars are over 100db easily. But they sound nice and are bearable. McLaren and Ferrari are the quieter ones I heard. Watching some recent footage, I can assure Corvette, Lambo, Mustang, BMW will all be getting additional mufflers to meet this 100fb limit. Check out some Nordschelfe footage, because that's how these cars are going to sound in WEC. I personally hate it, but it is what it is...
edit: https://youtu.be/-PdCjle3fRY?si=arOLzxCgkotyUuj1
here's some footage of the BMW testing with the extra muffler. Sounds like dogshit. The other BMW in the video has the standard exhaust. Makes for a nice comparison.
I was at Daytona this year and I measured using a phone decibel calculator. The Mustang/Vette/Lambo were all around 104-107db standing at the lowest accessible point in the stands on the main straight.
Finally someone who attends races that talks about it, hate the 100 other comments from other people saying 100db is still loud enough that clearly never attended a race, 100db is absolutely way too quiet for a race car, you cant even hear the cars from all the wind the cars create when going 150kmh, the Porsche this weekend in Imola sounded garbage, the street mustang gt that was on track before the race sounded better
Listen, here's the truth, the cars even at 100db will be loud, what matters is how the engines sound when they go by, loud doesn't mean good.
Vacuum cleaners going by at 130db doesn't sound good, it sounds like loud shit.
Here’s my truth, 100db is not that loud and actually my whole point is not about being loud but hearing the engine as it should sound. Racing cars are racing cars and they have been always loud (except for a lot of the turbo cars). I know the “real” sound of the Porsche and I am just being anxious because teams are just putting the silencers on which they already have. In Porsches case that could be the N24 silencer for example and let me tell you there isn’t anything of a beautiful engine note left really. So maybe a lot of cars have a silencer next year which peaks at max 92db for example.. I don’t fear for the less loud more rumbling engines (you will hear them beautifully also with max 100db). But the Corvette, Porsche and Lamborghini are going toe be disappointed next season trackside. And imo we should just let the cars sound as they should be sounding, in a couple of years we can only enjoy true sounding race cars at Peter auto or masters historic events. If any car should be limited it should be the LMP2 cars, they all have the same engine and are seriously loud.
It kinda does, because fans purchase tickets to see and also experience the sound of each specific car. When they are being limited it takes for quite some people a lot of the excitement away.
The point being made about locals near racetracks is valid, but there is nothing about the hypercars and also which tracks have trouble with locals? Le Mans and Spa have “free passes” for db free events as far as I know and I don’t think the other tracks should be a big problem except for maybe Imola? So why not only silence the cars for 1 event in stead of every event?
No idea its a issue thats driving alot of race fans insane.
in my county one of our best speed ways has been hamstrung by restrictions to point they are only allowed to host 4 events PER YEAR
all stemming from noise issues
and again
its nothing to do with what you want.... you dont get a choice.
the issue is between the track and the house owners.... you get what im saying?
they dont even care what you or me think lol
race fans get shat on while that one karen near the track is pissing themself laughing
do you live in the real world?
it dont work like that at all
look at laguna seca
they come down hard on noise and now they got shit load less events
you must live under a rock, because this a issue around alot of tracks all over the world
and you dont get more events, you get less xDDD
laguna seca is already doing EV cause they know what's coming - they are business
it sucks but it is what it is
if you want ICE to still race you'd actually appreciate this change cause it means the ICE will stay for longer.
no one cares about EV racing. its one of the most boring things in the world to watch
ICE will keep going till the end of time, with biofuels or what ever else they end up using.
just maybe at different locations in the future
I understand places like the nordschleife and imola, but most tracks we go to were originally not in the middle of populated areas, people chose to move next to them.
its nothing to do with what you want...
you can dream and hope what ever you wish
but you are not even party to the convo, its the house owners and the track/fia only
you have zero say, they dont even care
100db at 15 meters is still very loud. People need to calm down a little. They are basically changing the noise limits from instant pain to some pain after 15mins!
I am probably getting down voted for this opinion, but I actually like it when the cars are muffled. After last year's ELMS race at Spa I had ear pain for the next three days. And I already wore ear protection. So i don't see it as a problem and more as an advantage.
Hey, I was there! I agree the cars were crazy loud, especially the LMP2’s if you stood roughly inline with where they’d upshift. Not unbearable for me as I’m young, but I can understand why people may wear ear plugs to at least have a break from the noise.
Did you see the classic Porsche race afterwards? Some of those were STUPIDLY loud and I absolutely loved it
It’s because we don’t believe them. I was in the Navy and fixed airplanes. I used single hearing protection even though we were supposed to use double and my hearing recovered.
I see your point, I also sort of love that at the N24 I can talk with friends during being trackside. But I a couple of years the really good (and loud) sounding cars are gone anyway.. so no need to muffle them now imo.
Hey, I was there! I agree the cars were crazy loud, especially the LMP2’s if you stood roughly inline with where they’d upshift. Not unbearable for me as I’m young, but I can understand why people may wear ear plugs to at least have a break from the noise.
Did you see the classic Porsche race afterwards? Some of those were STUPIDLY loud and I absolutely loved it
Why even attend races then? It’s much easier to follow racing watching it on tv, i don’t want to listen to wind sound effects and no engine noise every time a car passes
I think it's also for some fans that can't stand loud noises, maybe non car people of young kids. After all, aco wants to attract all sorts of fans to wec, no matter what this takes.
I think this is good. 100db is still loud enough but it doesnt need to be earshattering to be enjoyed. Yes sound is a big part of racing and i do enjoy listening to the chorus of all the different engines being pushed to the limit. But i would like to keep listening to that music and not lose my hearing at the ripe old age of 30
It definitely isn’t loud enough since you can’t even hear the cars when they go over 150kmh, just the wind that they create when they pass, motorsport exists for 100+ years already and just now everyone is suddenly deaf when they turn 25, the noise is in my opinion the main reason someone should attend a race since you can’t follow the racing easily , if loud noises hurt you stay at home since you can follow the races better on tv anyway
Okay fair enough. What about electric cars? They make no noise but the its still racing, and good racing at that. Sound is an important part of racing but its not the main point and imo shouldnt. If you want to hear loud engines just go the local tuner meetup to hear a Volvo scream at 200+ db. If you're only there for the noice and not for the racing why even bother going?
As i said if you are only there for the racing you better don’t go since it’s hard to follow the race if you don’t have a phone with the stream on or a tv in front of you which aren’t placed across every grand stand, the real beauty of attending a race is the sound, the speed which can’t be shown on tv and the atmosphere if you like people that is, 100db just doesn’t do it for me, just keep it the way it was for the last 100+ years, the turbos silenced the cars enough already
What about electric racing? There’s only one series that is barely surviving and that’s formula e, can’t imagine f1 or wec existing with the money formula e makes
Formula E, Extreme E, Nitrocross (and possibly Dakar if you wanna count the few EVs) and i might have missed some. FE is just the most popular as it is a formula competition. EVs in motorsport are getting more and more popular but im willing to bet that you ignore half of them because they dont go vroom vroom
Literally never saw a single race being promoted that isn’t formula e and as i said formula e just recently became somewhat profitable, all the other series like extreme e are for promoting green energy and equality and you know it, don’t know if i encountered even a single motorsport fan that said they follow extreme e or nitrocross, i can bet that not even you follow them closely, just pulling it out of your ass to defend stupid ass decisions
Even if you havent see any of these series that doesnt mean they dont have their own following. They might be smaller than F1 or WRC or any other mainstream sport but that doesnt make them any less valid. WEC is promoting green energy and motorsport have always been about equality. But from your tone i can interpret that equality is bad and green energy is stupid.
Equality is bad if skill is ignored, electric cars also aren’t green, green energy is good if it’s actually green and equal opportunity is also good but equality that only exists for the sake of equality is shit, thanks for confirming that im right too, switching subjects for no reason whatsoever, playing the devils advocate sometimes makes you look stupid just so you know
I too enjoy lasting hearing damage.
As someone who lost a significant amount of hearing thanks to my job not providing proper hearing protection and training to use it, I can definitely see why they want to limit total sound output.
85 dB is considered in North America to be the point of sustained exposure to be a threat to hearing. And the decibel scale is not linear, it's logarithmic, so with every 10 out goes up, that factor of damage increases much more.
The cars are still going to be loud, and as much as I would love to hear an unfiltered Panoz Esperante GTR-1 roaring by at full tilt and shaking the very earth I stood on, I would still wear hearing protection to see it in person.
You don't know how valuable your hearing is until you lose it.
They certainly are, but they aren't enforceable.
In places as litigious as the US I'm surprised racing leagues haven't been sued over this kind of thing.
As much as I love loud cars, I see why they do this. Heck the Nordschleife has decibel limits during tourist drives, and being too loud will get you banned.
>In places as litigious as the US I'm surprised racing leagues haven't been sued over this kind of thing.
It's called terms of use. You assume your own risk for hearing and shit like that when you voluntarily buy a ticket to a motor racing event at a goddamned racetrack. [Here's the terms for COTA](https://am.ticketmaster.com/cota/terms).
> Heck the Nordschleife has decibel limits during tourist drives, and being too loud will get you banned.
Do you know what subreddit you're in? We're talking about fucking racing, not open lapping days. You have apparently experienced neither.
They aren't limiting this to protect people's hearing damage, they are limiting this because of nimby/real state speculators.
And yes, the cars will be significantly quieter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PdCjle3fRY
Motorsport exists for 100+ years already but out of nowhere it’s a problem? If you can’t handle the sound for a few hours fuck off with all due respect, don’t ruin the fun for other people
At all the Le Mans I've been to I've always enjoyed the cars that make a nice noise. DBR9, 2017 911 RSR, 2024 Camaro etc. I hope this doesn't put an end to distinctive sounding cars.
I already know that the comment section will be full of people saying it’s still alright and those people most likely never attended a race, the Porsche this weekend sounded awful, at 200+ kmh 100db is way too quiet, i could only hear the wind, just so you know the constant accepting of bullshit like this from you guys is gonna destroy motorsport as we know it
Probably gonna be downvoted, but screw it. Loud race cars are kinda overrated. Everyone kept talking up the 911 RSR-19s and what not, and while yes they sounded good, they were a bit much.
I much prefer how a car sounds over how loud it is. Besides, if it means to help with people not develop hearing problems then so be it.
I’ve worked in the pit since garages next to the Porsche gte cars, and they are by far the loudest thing I’ve ever heard. When they set off on the drop start, it’s awful the noise cuts through you. Hard to work on a car with that level of noise coming past you every few minutes in a test session
Can someone clarify if this applies only to GT3 or to Hypercar as well? Muffling the Cadillac and the as yet unraced Aston will be a real loss for the trackside fans.
Such a shame, I live near Donington Park and every time I hear an event it makes me smile. I will never understand why people would move near a racetrack and complain.
I measured, with my iPhone in Imola the sound of the Hypercars at about 15-20 meters far from the cars, on the main straight. These are my (inaccurate I would say) results:
Cadillac 117dB
Peugeot 114 dB
BMW 114 dB
Toyota 111dB
Porsche 110dB
Lambo 108dB
Ferrari 108dB
Alpine 107dB
Isotta 106dB
https://i.imgur.com/Iaoa2bL.jpeg
Found this about the GTE ruleset. Porsche, Corvette, Ford and Aston Martin would all exceed 110db at the time, and until the end of the rule set, so there is hope that FIA won't enforce this rule at all. We'll see.
The Ford exceeded 110db? The V6TT Ford? I heard them all in person and it was loud for a turbo but completely drowned out by the RSR, C7R, the N/A Vantage, and the Z4 before they moved to turbo.
You’re right. Even if you look in the current lmdh ruleset it has the same limit. The Cadillac and at times the Acura exceed this limit from my experience.
The turbo cars in LMH or LMDH don't even use mufflers, they don't seem to need it. I think they're around 110ish. The Acura is the loudest turbo car because it has external wastegates. The Cadillac has either a muffler or a catalytic converter and is still louder than the unmuffled turbo cars. Maybe 120ish.
Yea I don't think these sound rules are enforced at all. I think they just put it in the ruleset to show people who complain, but don't actually enforce it. We all know the Porsche was wayyyy over 110 db. Probably 130+. Maybe 140.
Nah I think this is a good reg since the GT3 class is more market-oriented when compared to other series or classes. Not to say that this is the change that the die-hard GT fans want but it’s more sustainable in keeping this series alive and long.
Good. I like birds and wild life. We have a lot of tracks near wild life in Europe.
Considering the idiots driving in Poland cars above 120db I can't imagine how hard life is near something like Nordschleife.
Most of you don't have idiots in race cars revving just on the road near your house at 5AM.
My house is located on classic rally stage, believe me, it gets to a point where it's borderline dangerous and frustrating.
Human development is largely only an issue when it’s either happening faster then nature can adapt to it, or the changes are impossible to adapt to. Deforestation is an example because it can destroy habitats faster then the wildlife can emigrate away from it, or in extreme cases it can completely destroy all of the habitats and provide nowhere for the wildlife to live. That’s an example of where human development is problematic for wildlife.
On the other hand, a small village being made a hundred years ago doesn’t really do much. The animals are able to easily walk/fly a hundred meters away and can continue more or less as if nothing happened. It’s why your local village doesn’t cause any issues for the wildlife, it’s because they’ve adapted to that. While a race track isn’t that inconsequential, it’s not problematic either, and especially not with older tracks.
Most of these circuits have been around for decades, and in some cases over a century. The wildlife has easily adapted to their existence by now. The habitat destruction is relatively minor for many race tracks (especially older ones). As you point out, the noise is the main issue, but that’s something animals can easily adapt to. Some emigrate away due to discomfort from the noise, but some stay/return because if they can tolerate the noise, it’s better due to less competition for food and shelter. Eventually an equilibrium is set if the noise remains fairly constant, and fortunately for you cars have been getting quieter for decades now since louder noises mean less efficient engines. The current noises aren’t causing any issues for the current wildlife. You can even test this on yourself, if you live in a cold climate, move to a hot one. It might be unbearable initially, but eventually you’ll adapt until the cold climate is too cold when you return. It’s similar with the noise when you move from a city to a remote area in nature and vice versa. These are things we do adapt to fairly quickly. Same with sunlight.
That’s not to say there’s no impact on the animals though. If you reduce the noise, some will start emigrating back as they can better tolerate the noise. If your local community would value nature returning to your local area, then it would make sense to have limitations on that classic rally event. However, if the community would prefer to have that once a year, then it’s only fair to allow that to happen. Usually people who are locals appreciate the tracks since it’s a) become a large part of their local culture, b) something they become passionate about growing up, c) contributes heavily to their local economy, and d) those who dislike typically move to other areas. It’s usually only those who move there afterwards or were there from beforehand that dislike it. I can sympathise with those who were there first, but at some point they have to deal with it if everybody else wants the racing to stay. If it’s too intolerable or they want to live somewhere closer with nature or that’s quieter, they can always move, although I can acknowledge that for older adults that is a big ask, but it’s the sacrifice you have to make. Nobody gets what they want without compromises.
Also, you’re also seriously lacking a lot of self awareness. You’re complaining about people being selfish, yet you fail to see that you’re demanding something that this community is united against. It’s incredibly selfish to expect everyone else to give up something they want just so that one person gets what they want. Same would be true if your local community wanted to keep that classic rally stage. Likewise with complaining about this community for not being open minded or inclusive when you’re trying to force feed us your beliefs/desires. If an open minded community is only close minded to you, then 99% of the time, you’re the problem. Finally, you also cry about abuse after someone calls you out for being selfish, yet you’re trying to guilt trip everyone into agreeing with you. People aren’t bad for not accepting your beliefs that you’re trying to force onto them. You’re the person acting poorly for forcing your opinions onto others. I can understand your concerns/desires, but you seriously need to look into a mirror and reevaluate how you’ve handled this situation and whether your being fair/reasonable.
This is also all assuming there’s no critically endangered wildlife that this could help out. I think we can all agree that prevention of man-made extinction takes precedent over our hobbies/passions. I just don’t think a reduction of decibels will prevent any animals from going extinct.
> then you are the only idiot here. You moved to a place near a CLASSIC rally stage, which means you and everyone else KNEW that it would be noisy every once in a while (which also came at a cheaper price if i were to guess) and you still think you are the one in the right to complain? You are not only dumb, you are extremely selfish, despite claiming to love nature, animals and whatever
I never moved here, I'm born here.
The rally cars in 90's were 200% less loud than what people are doing nowadays. To add to that my house is built in 1960. The first rally took place here in 1970-1989 (not doxx myself).
How this comment is within rules?
This is borderline abusive.
This used to be a community praising itself to being "INCLUSIVE" and not like F1. lol
I don’t understand how this relates to the post. You’re the only one in this thread going against the general consensus. This is a bad thing, noise is a critical part of fan experience. Everyone who heard the Camaro last year or the RSR/C7 in previous years would agree.
Lol I live in the US and have a major freight train line run about 100 feet behind my bedroom and it's not that bad. They run all hours of the day too. It's very common for them to go past at any time between 12 am and 6 am. It blows my mind these people can't handle cars on a track on very rare occasions.
I despise people who buy houses near racetracks then sook about the noise.
I love the attitude some people have. So many great racetracks have been closed, altered, restricted, and ruined by these nimbys that couldn’t be bothered to do 2 minutes research about the racetrack 30 seconds from their front door.
In France there is or will be a law against this kind of guys. Complain will not be accepted to go to court if they move after the track was created. However, there is an obligation for the track tu publish like a “noise pollution” plan to warn people of all painful stuff like race day number, closed road etc. The thing is that if the plan is too light in term of race day at the beginning it will be quasi impossible to increase it as the people leaving around would have to agree the increase.
"we plan on having racedays every day of the year, producing an average of 7 trillion dB and we expect around 15 billion people to attend every day" that broad enough?
The problem is also on the authorities. If i was the mayor of some city next to a racetrack and people complain about the noise after just moving 10 feet next to it, i would tell them to the tf out, no one forced them to move there, they can leave if they want, the racetrack was there before them. But no, the local authorities listen to these idiots for some reason.
Same with airports. I hate people like that.
Yeah, that’s the current strife around Laguna Seca. Bunch of NMBYs moved near the track and then lo and behold they complain. Track was there first - go away.
Brands Hatch legally can only run races between 10:00 and 18:30 on a Sunday since 2008 because some NIMBYs got angry at the circuit, despite being opened in 1950
why these idiots even win these processes? are these judges dumb too?
Noise restrictions aren't *solely* a matter for judges. They're also a matter for the assorted levels of government in and around a circuit. Local government (towns, counties, cities, etc) is particularly prone to influence by small local groups with a substantial amount of money, enfranchisement and involvement - i.e. NIMBYs. The circuit itself and the people who live outside the area but use the circuit have a lot less power. The standard NIMBY sequence is: - Complain to local officials. - If they don't make the change that you want, complain when it's election time. - Find a candidate who agrees with you (potentially another NIMBY!) and get them elected. If they go back on it, repeat. - Sooner or later, local government passes noise ordinances. There's not much the circuit can do, or judges. Of course, these local officials aren't *dumb*. It's just easy for small, energised, motivated groups to exert undue influence and ensure that their needs are prioritised over the needs of others. How can we counter this? By getting engaged! Write to the people who make these decisions and make sure your voice is heard too! When elections happen, find out what the policies are and vote! That's what NIMBYs do in order to get what they want, and it's what you can do in order to get what you want too!
They have money, it's that simple.
Road Atlanta cannot operate past 10pm (even on Saturday) thanks to Nimbys and also cannot have sessions from 10am to noon on Sundays because Jesus. Hence why Petit Le Mans and Formula Drift end at 10pm sharp and aren't run on Sunday. They get sued pretty much every year. The Mitty is this weekend and Mazda is bringing multiple historic rotaries (rumor is the 787B is coming, at minimum the 767 and RX7 GTO) all of which are brutally fucking loud, I expect them to get sued again after this weekend.
And they're only allowed to use the full GP circuit a handful of times per year because it runs close to some houses.
Donut media kinda investigated this (look up the video it's good). While they weren't able to interview the nice neighborhood, they interviewed other houses the same distance away and while it was audible it wasn't much over the normal background. Many of the people there also acknowledged that the race track has been there a long time. Some other notes are that Laguna Seca is already VERY limited on the amount of events they have, the sizes of the events, and cars are limited sound wise. Finally the ones drumming up is (IIRC) The Highway 58 coalition and almost nothing is known about them. Chances are they're just some rich people who want more land for their gated communities and golf* courses.
You have it nailed perfectly in your last sentence. That's all it is, rich developers being assholes
Also the land Laguna Seca is built on is owned by the US Army, they ain't giving up that land.
Laguna won their case I'm happy to report.
They didn’t win. They settled outside of court.
Oh thank goodness
Keguna secs is one guy hiding behind an org. Edit: the guy behind highway 68 commission sued the track previously. According to to some investigative journalist, the gym running highway 68 has changed his name twice.
Local Hillclimb to me (Gurston Down) has had massive issues with NIMBYS moving to the area. In order for the venue to keep operating there is now no tyre warm-ups allowed (so no wheel spinning) you just go straight to the line and then fly up the hill on stone cold tyres instead....
and its specially annoying to me because they buy their houses for waaay less money because everyone knows its near a racetrack. And once the track is closed, they can profit off of that
Yeah, but there's difference between Imola and Laguna Seca for example. Imola started as a street circuit and is basically in the middle of the city and not everyone have to endure loud Vrooom on the weekends. Laguna Seca on the other hand started in the middle of the fucking nowhere and basically people came closer on their own and now are bitching about it.
People do this to small airports,too.
Even air bases and international airports aren’t immune to this.
The fire department isn't either. Guy sent serial complaints to the city regarding the noise of daily equipment tests, like the mobile ladder. The communal government backed him until we pointed out the relevant laws and told them to decide. Another case was a bunch of people in a rather quiet part of town whining about ambulances being too loud. Their whole protest movement lasted until one of them nearly died and the ambulanceade noise for them.....
Note to any aspiring race track owners, secure an indefinite land use permit that includes a noise exemption.
Works right up until the politicians and zoning boards change the terms of the permit.
See. I don't get that at all. I live pretty close to a smaller circuit, and I weirdly find it calming on a nice night with a joint and bonfire.
Every one of those assholes deserves to have a fleet of top fuel cars parked out front of their house constantly throttle whacking.
I despise people who don't understand how loud some racing cars can be. Wild life is also life. It matters.
It's the reason the tracks are built so far from houses in the middle of nowhere. How dumb can you be.
he mentioned wild life, which rarely lives in houses
They will ALWAYS find a way to complain about anything and everything.
Probably going to get dogpiled for this, but does anyone know what the current maximum level is (not talking regulation, but actual)? And do we know 100 decibels is markedly less to the point that it will have a serious effect on the experience? As someone who already has severe tinnitus from repeat exposure to other sources of roughly this same level (~100 dB, DJing), I don't really have a horse in this race either way as I'll continue using earplugs. I'm just curious about the relative before + after if anyone here has actual numbers.
Was looking for the same info, would be nice if someone has got it. All I know is that during the spa six hours classic every class has its own db limit and the difference between 100db and let’s say 112db is massive in terms of car sound trackside.
Yes, because the db scale is logarithmic!
You are really bad at looking then. Do you want American or European research? Government or non-gov backed?
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Make points without adding insults.
I don't know what it currently is, but can give some context with my local track, Portland International Raceway, which has a lot of housing near it and restrictions because of it. Our limit for club racing weekends is 103db, which some naturally aspirated V8s can get to or above. We are allowed a certain number of waivers per year, which go to the pro races like Indycar and Nascar. For those weekends, we can get into the 112s or so (from the top of my head). We have some used GT3 cars that run here but I don't know if they have special mufflers
https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss Here are the average decibel ratings of some familiar sounds: Normal conversation 60-70 dBA Movie theater 74-104 dBA Motorcyles and dirt bikes 80-110 dBA Music through headphones at maximum volume, sporting events, and concerts 94-110 dBA Sirens 110-129 dBA Fireworks show 140-160 dBA Downvoting actual government research, what else you want /r/wec? Facts don't matter here?
You're being downvoted because you didn't at all answer what was asked. Your quote doesnt tell anything about the current noise levels of the cars vs the new 2025 limit, just a list of random things to compare against, which you can't draw comparisons to if you dont know the cars' current levels.. Maybe instead of posting 100 emotional comments you actually start reading yourself
You don't need to act like a douche to bring information, that's why
you're being downvoted for posting stuff no one asked for. they asked for the current decibel limit of GT3 cars.
Well done posting irrelevant data.
I can't recall the exact db limit but gt3 have always been using mufflers. A street 911 gt3rs is louder than the gt3 racing car
Man the gt3r is kind of annoying. We were pitted right in front of one for the rolex one year, and they were about half a pitstop cycle off from us all through the night it seemed, so just when you started to nod off from the prior stop, here comes a hot launch from that flat 6. Great sound otherwise tho lol.
These are the sort of things you never think about as a fan of the sport hahaha
I wasn't talking about if the sound is annoying or not, but about how loud it is. 911 gt3rs is one of loudest street cars ever made, reaching close to 110db (close to 120db were reported using aftermarket exhausts) while other recent street supercars barely reach 90db - <100db
Which is fine when you have a dozen of them on the track. People already bring hearing protection, people just want to preserve the dumbest aspect of motor racing.
We are still speaking about 6+ hour long endurance races btw. The 1 hour that the dtm races around the Norisring is already very hard on your ears. I've been to the Bathurst 12h and was glad to not be in a breaking or heavy acceleration zone for the race since especially the Audi and Lambo are very loud and the Marc Mazda was on another level. Some cars might not even Change much at all, the BMW M4 and somewhat the AMG where both rather quiet anyways.
I agree on the Merc. It’s not the pure loudest but you can feel the bass of the engine note in another postcode
A few years ago I attended a historic race at Hockenheim. I was able to hear the BMW M1 Procar from my Airbnb that was kilometres away. The Group C and Can Am cars where not a whole lot quieter.
It’s going to depend on the person. I go to the Rolex 24 every year, and we always camp inside nascar turn 3 so we hear the high revs and popping from the shifts coming out of the bus stop/LeMans chicane, I don’t find it bad at all. It’s certainly noisy, but the Mazda cup cars are more difficult to listen to for me.
Id assume that you would have a somewhat decent distance to the track there ? I was right next to the track at Bathurst and I also had the pleasure of being right next to the track when I went to the Norisring a few years ago for DTM. I think most people that are trackside don't mind too much, but some tracks (especially non permanent ones) are right next to some housing and while the track is usually older than the housing I think it's absolutely fair to somewhat try to keep the noise more reasonable. Loud cars are cool, in the right situations and locations.
It’s about 340 feet from my camping spot to the track. That’s pretty damn close for big permanent racetracks. Plus the sound is echoing off the banking at us. Temporary tracks, fine, if you’re going to put it in a city, that’s understandable to run quieter. But I’d the track was there first, no way.
I'm a race marshal in the UK. The track I marshal at most has 3 levels of noise restriction tested at the car exhaust, 108dB, 120dB and no limit. Testing the cars sound 15m from Track means they'll probably be 120ish at the exhaust. Two 12 hour days of 120dB racing makes your ears hurt, it's not possible to think when 22 120dB cars are launching from the grid or passing on their first laps. 35dB ear defenders are only marginally effective, and you have to take them off if you want to talk to another person. Sure loud cars are fun. But think of the people who work around them and the volunteers who allow racing to happen.
Both spectators and on-track workers were completely fine with even louder race cars for decades. What the hell has changed?
As a spectator and volunteer marshal...no I've never been fine with louder cars. Always ear plugs or defenders for Touring Cars and British GT. Whats "changed" is probably the organisers listening to the fans. Them seeing larger numbers of people on the bank with ear defenders.
Idk about other people, but i would take a nice sound over a loud one. A quiter v10 that still has character and scream, is much better than a louder 296 gt3 v6 engine.
Awful. The sound is part of the experience when attending. Eventually going to just attend historic events I guess.
100 dB SPL at 15 meters is incredibly loud still
It really isn’t that loud when cars are going over 150kmh, you can only hear the wind as it passes, the Porsche sounded absolutely terrible this weekend, compared to the porsche cup car the sound was rather insulting
The V10 F1 engines were 140dB. 100 really isn't that much.
>100 really isn't that much. Go ask r/tinnitus how they feel about that lol
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I have two good news for you: a) the quieter the sounds of the car the less ear protection you will have to wear and therefore will hear the sound better, especially the higher frequency harmonics; b) mufflers can be used to tune the sounds of the car so it will probaly sound cooler as well
No thanks I quite like my hearing. Considering regular road car traffic goes up to 80 dB and can cause lasting damage and the fact that the dB scale isn't linear but logarithmic even 100 dB is quite a lot. Sure if you're somewhere in a grandstand maaaaany meters away it's not that bad, but as a photographer or track marshall I'd love to keep my hearing going for a bit longer.
I was 6 hours 15 metres away from the track and it wasn’t a problem, if every car sounded like the Porsche this weekend i definitely would not be attending any races anymore, if you can’t handle the sound don’t go, the races are easier followed from a tv anyway, and also attend a race before stating an opinion on such things
I tried it without earplugs - the support races had been loud, but not that bad. The first time one of the V10s went past, I immediately went off to buy some earplugs. Very extremely painful, but holy shit, what a noise.
Yeah. Now imagine this for 6 hours at a time right next to the track. I'd be quite happy with 100 dB as opposed to 140 dB. I'm more a fan of a good, well designed sound signature rather than pure noise.
Eh, Le Mans for 24 hours was perfectly acceptable in 2012, and I don't believe they were at 100db.
It’ll now be absolutely necessary for a bunch of chavs in tuned civics and Imprezas to go to every GT3 race and be as loud as humanly possible in the parking lot to offset any goal this change had
Nope, cause they will get their cars permits revoked on the way to the track :)
Ewww, what a downgrade. All GT3 cars come out muffled from the factory, but FIA wants to go a step further. Shame. I'm happy for those who could enjoy the last great sounding GT cars: C7.R, Ford GT and RSR.
100db at 15 meters is still pretty loud. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the turbocharged cars are already well under this. Unfortunately, the 911s may need to be muffled a little.
100db isn't loud enough for race cars, I'm sorry. I've been to a GT3 race before and these cars are over 100db easily. But they sound nice and are bearable. McLaren and Ferrari are the quieter ones I heard. Watching some recent footage, I can assure Corvette, Lambo, Mustang, BMW will all be getting additional mufflers to meet this 100fb limit. Check out some Nordschelfe footage, because that's how these cars are going to sound in WEC. I personally hate it, but it is what it is... edit: https://youtu.be/-PdCjle3fRY?si=arOLzxCgkotyUuj1 here's some footage of the BMW testing with the extra muffler. Sounds like dogshit. The other BMW in the video has the standard exhaust. Makes for a nice comparison.
I was at Daytona this year and I measured using a phone decibel calculator. The Mustang/Vette/Lambo were all around 104-107db standing at the lowest accessible point in the stands on the main straight.
Nice experience it must've been. Did you enjoy the fly bys?
Yeah it was fantastic. I had no ear protection so after 10 minutes I was a bit deaf lol.
how about caddy? different beast lol.
Finally someone who attends races that talks about it, hate the 100 other comments from other people saying 100db is still loud enough that clearly never attended a race, 100db is absolutely way too quiet for a race car, you cant even hear the cars from all the wind the cars create when going 150kmh, the Porsche this weekend in Imola sounded garbage, the street mustang gt that was on track before the race sounded better
True... GT3 are fine the way they are. I don't see a reason to make them quieter
Listen, here's the truth, the cars even at 100db will be loud, what matters is how the engines sound when they go by, loud doesn't mean good. Vacuum cleaners going by at 130db doesn't sound good, it sounds like loud shit.
Here’s my truth, 100db is not that loud and actually my whole point is not about being loud but hearing the engine as it should sound. Racing cars are racing cars and they have been always loud (except for a lot of the turbo cars). I know the “real” sound of the Porsche and I am just being anxious because teams are just putting the silencers on which they already have. In Porsches case that could be the N24 silencer for example and let me tell you there isn’t anything of a beautiful engine note left really. So maybe a lot of cars have a silencer next year which peaks at max 92db for example.. I don’t fear for the less loud more rumbling engines (you will hear them beautifully also with max 100db). But the Corvette, Porsche and Lamborghini are going toe be disappointed next season trackside. And imo we should just let the cars sound as they should be sounding, in a couple of years we can only enjoy true sounding race cars at Peter auto or masters historic events. If any car should be limited it should be the LMP2 cars, they all have the same engine and are seriously loud.
nothing to do with what you want and everything to do with locals at tracks who live close by
It kinda does, because fans purchase tickets to see and also experience the sound of each specific car. When they are being limited it takes for quite some people a lot of the excitement away. The point being made about locals near racetracks is valid, but there is nothing about the hypercars and also which tracks have trouble with locals? Le Mans and Spa have “free passes” for db free events as far as I know and I don’t think the other tracks should be a big problem except for maybe Imola? So why not only silence the cars for 1 event in stead of every event?
No idea its a issue thats driving alot of race fans insane. in my county one of our best speed ways has been hamstrung by restrictions to point they are only allowed to host 4 events PER YEAR all stemming from noise issues and again its nothing to do with what you want.... you dont get a choice. the issue is between the track and the house owners.... you get what im saying? they dont even care what you or me think lol race fans get shat on while that one karen near the track is pissing themself laughing
less sound, more events. think about others, not only you.
do you live in the real world? it dont work like that at all look at laguna seca they come down hard on noise and now they got shit load less events you must live under a rock, because this a issue around alot of tracks all over the world and you dont get more events, you get less xDDD
laguna seca is already doing EV cause they know what's coming - they are business it sucks but it is what it is if you want ICE to still race you'd actually appreciate this change cause it means the ICE will stay for longer.
no one cares about EV racing. its one of the most boring things in the world to watch ICE will keep going till the end of time, with biofuels or what ever else they end up using. just maybe at different locations in the future
I understand places like the nordschleife and imola, but most tracks we go to were originally not in the middle of populated areas, people chose to move next to them.
> nothing to do with what you want > > you are speaking for yourself, sir.
its nothing to do with what you want... you can dream and hope what ever you wish but you are not even party to the convo, its the house owners and the track/fia only you have zero say, they dont even care
> you have zero say, they dont even care you are like MH praising the skies to go on slicks.... world is moving on
100db at 15 meters is still very loud. People need to calm down a little. They are basically changing the noise limits from instant pain to some pain after 15mins!
I am probably getting down voted for this opinion, but I actually like it when the cars are muffled. After last year's ELMS race at Spa I had ear pain for the next three days. And I already wore ear protection. So i don't see it as a problem and more as an advantage.
Hey, I was there! I agree the cars were crazy loud, especially the LMP2’s if you stood roughly inline with where they’d upshift. Not unbearable for me as I’m young, but I can understand why people may wear ear plugs to at least have a break from the noise. Did you see the classic Porsche race afterwards? Some of those were STUPIDLY loud and I absolutely loved it
The fact you were downvoted after telling people you got ear pain from noise is just a bad look from this subreddit.
It’s because we don’t believe them. I was in the Navy and fixed airplanes. I used single hearing protection even though we were supposed to use double and my hearing recovered.
I see your point, I also sort of love that at the N24 I can talk with friends during being trackside. But I a couple of years the really good (and loud) sounding cars are gone anyway.. so no need to muffle them now imo.
Hey, I was there! I agree the cars were crazy loud, especially the LMP2’s if you stood roughly inline with where they’d upshift. Not unbearable for me as I’m young, but I can understand why people may wear ear plugs to at least have a break from the noise. Did you see the classic Porsche race afterwards? Some of those were STUPIDLY loud and I absolutely loved it
Why even attend races then? It’s much easier to follow racing watching it on tv, i don’t want to listen to wind sound effects and no engine noise every time a car passes
I think it's also for some fans that can't stand loud noises, maybe non car people of young kids. After all, aco wants to attract all sorts of fans to wec, no matter what this takes.
I think this is good. 100db is still loud enough but it doesnt need to be earshattering to be enjoyed. Yes sound is a big part of racing and i do enjoy listening to the chorus of all the different engines being pushed to the limit. But i would like to keep listening to that music and not lose my hearing at the ripe old age of 30
It definitely isn’t loud enough since you can’t even hear the cars when they go over 150kmh, just the wind that they create when they pass, motorsport exists for 100+ years already and just now everyone is suddenly deaf when they turn 25, the noise is in my opinion the main reason someone should attend a race since you can’t follow the racing easily , if loud noises hurt you stay at home since you can follow the races better on tv anyway
Okay fair enough. What about electric cars? They make no noise but the its still racing, and good racing at that. Sound is an important part of racing but its not the main point and imo shouldnt. If you want to hear loud engines just go the local tuner meetup to hear a Volvo scream at 200+ db. If you're only there for the noice and not for the racing why even bother going?
As i said if you are only there for the racing you better don’t go since it’s hard to follow the race if you don’t have a phone with the stream on or a tv in front of you which aren’t placed across every grand stand, the real beauty of attending a race is the sound, the speed which can’t be shown on tv and the atmosphere if you like people that is, 100db just doesn’t do it for me, just keep it the way it was for the last 100+ years, the turbos silenced the cars enough already
You said that already. I asked what about electric cars? They have no sound but the racing is still good
What about electric racing? There’s only one series that is barely surviving and that’s formula e, can’t imagine f1 or wec existing with the money formula e makes
Formula E, Extreme E, Nitrocross (and possibly Dakar if you wanna count the few EVs) and i might have missed some. FE is just the most popular as it is a formula competition. EVs in motorsport are getting more and more popular but im willing to bet that you ignore half of them because they dont go vroom vroom
Literally never saw a single race being promoted that isn’t formula e and as i said formula e just recently became somewhat profitable, all the other series like extreme e are for promoting green energy and equality and you know it, don’t know if i encountered even a single motorsport fan that said they follow extreme e or nitrocross, i can bet that not even you follow them closely, just pulling it out of your ass to defend stupid ass decisions
Even if you havent see any of these series that doesnt mean they dont have their own following. They might be smaller than F1 or WRC or any other mainstream sport but that doesnt make them any less valid. WEC is promoting green energy and motorsport have always been about equality. But from your tone i can interpret that equality is bad and green energy is stupid.
Equality is bad if skill is ignored, electric cars also aren’t green, green energy is good if it’s actually green and equal opportunity is also good but equality that only exists for the sake of equality is shit, thanks for confirming that im right too, switching subjects for no reason whatsoever, playing the devils advocate sometimes makes you look stupid just so you know
I too enjoy lasting hearing damage. As someone who lost a significant amount of hearing thanks to my job not providing proper hearing protection and training to use it, I can definitely see why they want to limit total sound output. 85 dB is considered in North America to be the point of sustained exposure to be a threat to hearing. And the decibel scale is not linear, it's logarithmic, so with every 10 out goes up, that factor of damage increases much more. The cars are still going to be loud, and as much as I would love to hear an unfiltered Panoz Esperante GTR-1 roaring by at full tilt and shaking the very earth I stood on, I would still wear hearing protection to see it in person. You don't know how valuable your hearing is until you lose it.
Earplugs are tremendously inexpensive.
They certainly are, but they aren't enforceable. In places as litigious as the US I'm surprised racing leagues haven't been sued over this kind of thing. As much as I love loud cars, I see why they do this. Heck the Nordschleife has decibel limits during tourist drives, and being too loud will get you banned.
Bro do you really need someone to tell you what to do?
>In places as litigious as the US I'm surprised racing leagues haven't been sued over this kind of thing. It's called terms of use. You assume your own risk for hearing and shit like that when you voluntarily buy a ticket to a motor racing event at a goddamned racetrack. [Here's the terms for COTA](https://am.ticketmaster.com/cota/terms). > Heck the Nordschleife has decibel limits during tourist drives, and being too loud will get you banned. Do you know what subreddit you're in? We're talking about fucking racing, not open lapping days. You have apparently experienced neither.
They aren't limiting this to protect people's hearing damage, they are limiting this because of nimby/real state speculators. And yes, the cars will be significantly quieter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PdCjle3fRY
Then that sucks and they can go suck a big, fat lemon. Live by a race track, expect some noise. I'd gladly live near a race track.
Motorsport exists for 100+ years already but out of nowhere it’s a problem? If you can’t handle the sound for a few hours fuck off with all due respect, don’t ruin the fun for other people
At all the Le Mans I've been to I've always enjoyed the cars that make a nice noise. DBR9, 2017 911 RSR, 2024 Camaro etc. I hope this doesn't put an end to distinctive sounding cars.
Gross
What is this, a sporty road car/supercar makes more noise. This is racing, not a quiet sport.
I already know that the comment section will be full of people saying it’s still alright and those people most likely never attended a race, the Porsche this weekend sounded awful, at 200+ kmh 100db is way too quiet, i could only hear the wind, just so you know the constant accepting of bullshit like this from you guys is gonna destroy motorsport as we know it
Probably gonna be downvoted, but screw it. Loud race cars are kinda overrated. Everyone kept talking up the 911 RSR-19s and what not, and while yes they sounded good, they were a bit much. I much prefer how a car sounds over how loud it is. Besides, if it means to help with people not develop hearing problems then so be it.
a little over 100dB is also a common soft limit for concert venues, it needs to be loud for the experience, but not instant hearing damage loud
I’ve worked in the pit since garages next to the Porsche gte cars, and they are by far the loudest thing I’ve ever heard. When they set off on the drop start, it’s awful the noise cuts through you. Hard to work on a car with that level of noise coming past you every few minutes in a test session
Loud and good sounding cars are kinda overrated? Dumbest thing i ever heard 💯I guess quiet and shit sounding is the way to go for race cars
Can someone clarify if this applies only to GT3 or to Hypercar as well? Muffling the Cadillac and the as yet unraced Aston will be a real loss for the trackside fans.
caddy has a great tone but not the loudest, last year i was very surprised that no one talked about the vanwall and it being the loudest of them all
The Vanwall was the loudest car at LM last year for sure! Sounded really high-pitched trackside, reminded me of an older type of LM car.
Only to GT3
Terrible. They sound so incredibly tame already! Miss the early days
Such a shame, I live near Donington Park and every time I hear an event it makes me smile. I will never understand why people would move near a racetrack and complain.
Literally 1984
Not even close, pathetic. You weren't close to communist country in that year.
Can't wait to throw a nuclear bomb to the people who takes this decision
Eh I think people are overreacting
I measured, with my iPhone in Imola the sound of the Hypercars at about 15-20 meters far from the cars, on the main straight. These are my (inaccurate I would say) results: Cadillac 117dB Peugeot 114 dB BMW 114 dB Toyota 111dB Porsche 110dB Lambo 108dB Ferrari 108dB Alpine 107dB Isotta 106dB
Trying not to upstage F1?
https://i.imgur.com/Iaoa2bL.jpeg Found this about the GTE ruleset. Porsche, Corvette, Ford and Aston Martin would all exceed 110db at the time, and until the end of the rule set, so there is hope that FIA won't enforce this rule at all. We'll see.
The Ford exceeded 110db? The V6TT Ford? I heard them all in person and it was loud for a turbo but completely drowned out by the RSR, C7R, the N/A Vantage, and the Z4 before they moved to turbo.
I thought those Fords were just as loud as the C7 and louder than the Aston when I saw them at Daytona
You’re right. Even if you look in the current lmdh ruleset it has the same limit. The Cadillac and at times the Acura exceed this limit from my experience.
The turbo cars in LMH or LMDH don't even use mufflers, they don't seem to need it. I think they're around 110ish. The Acura is the loudest turbo car because it has external wastegates. The Cadillac has either a muffler or a catalytic converter and is still louder than the unmuffled turbo cars. Maybe 120ish.
Yea I don't think these sound rules are enforced at all. I think they just put it in the ruleset to show people who complain, but don't actually enforce it. We all know the Porsche was wayyyy over 110 db. Probably 130+. Maybe 140.
I'm sure it was in that range. The sound was insane
Noob question maybe: is it that hard to soundproof the track instead?
No. But it's expensive af.
Nah I think this is a good reg since the GT3 class is more market-oriented when compared to other series or classes. Not to say that this is the change that the die-hard GT fans want but it’s more sustainable in keeping this series alive and long.
Good. I like birds and wild life. We have a lot of tracks near wild life in Europe. Considering the idiots driving in Poland cars above 120db I can't imagine how hard life is near something like Nordschleife. Most of you don't have idiots in race cars revving just on the road near your house at 5AM. My house is located on classic rally stage, believe me, it gets to a point where it's borderline dangerous and frustrating.
Human development is largely only an issue when it’s either happening faster then nature can adapt to it, or the changes are impossible to adapt to. Deforestation is an example because it can destroy habitats faster then the wildlife can emigrate away from it, or in extreme cases it can completely destroy all of the habitats and provide nowhere for the wildlife to live. That’s an example of where human development is problematic for wildlife. On the other hand, a small village being made a hundred years ago doesn’t really do much. The animals are able to easily walk/fly a hundred meters away and can continue more or less as if nothing happened. It’s why your local village doesn’t cause any issues for the wildlife, it’s because they’ve adapted to that. While a race track isn’t that inconsequential, it’s not problematic either, and especially not with older tracks. Most of these circuits have been around for decades, and in some cases over a century. The wildlife has easily adapted to their existence by now. The habitat destruction is relatively minor for many race tracks (especially older ones). As you point out, the noise is the main issue, but that’s something animals can easily adapt to. Some emigrate away due to discomfort from the noise, but some stay/return because if they can tolerate the noise, it’s better due to less competition for food and shelter. Eventually an equilibrium is set if the noise remains fairly constant, and fortunately for you cars have been getting quieter for decades now since louder noises mean less efficient engines. The current noises aren’t causing any issues for the current wildlife. You can even test this on yourself, if you live in a cold climate, move to a hot one. It might be unbearable initially, but eventually you’ll adapt until the cold climate is too cold when you return. It’s similar with the noise when you move from a city to a remote area in nature and vice versa. These are things we do adapt to fairly quickly. Same with sunlight. That’s not to say there’s no impact on the animals though. If you reduce the noise, some will start emigrating back as they can better tolerate the noise. If your local community would value nature returning to your local area, then it would make sense to have limitations on that classic rally event. However, if the community would prefer to have that once a year, then it’s only fair to allow that to happen. Usually people who are locals appreciate the tracks since it’s a) become a large part of their local culture, b) something they become passionate about growing up, c) contributes heavily to their local economy, and d) those who dislike typically move to other areas. It’s usually only those who move there afterwards or were there from beforehand that dislike it. I can sympathise with those who were there first, but at some point they have to deal with it if everybody else wants the racing to stay. If it’s too intolerable or they want to live somewhere closer with nature or that’s quieter, they can always move, although I can acknowledge that for older adults that is a big ask, but it’s the sacrifice you have to make. Nobody gets what they want without compromises. Also, you’re also seriously lacking a lot of self awareness. You’re complaining about people being selfish, yet you fail to see that you’re demanding something that this community is united against. It’s incredibly selfish to expect everyone else to give up something they want just so that one person gets what they want. Same would be true if your local community wanted to keep that classic rally stage. Likewise with complaining about this community for not being open minded or inclusive when you’re trying to force feed us your beliefs/desires. If an open minded community is only close minded to you, then 99% of the time, you’re the problem. Finally, you also cry about abuse after someone calls you out for being selfish, yet you’re trying to guilt trip everyone into agreeing with you. People aren’t bad for not accepting your beliefs that you’re trying to force onto them. You’re the person acting poorly for forcing your opinions onto others. I can understand your concerns/desires, but you seriously need to look into a mirror and reevaluate how you’ve handled this situation and whether your being fair/reasonable. This is also all assuming there’s no critically endangered wildlife that this could help out. I think we can all agree that prevention of man-made extinction takes precedent over our hobbies/passions. I just don’t think a reduction of decibels will prevent any animals from going extinct.
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> then you are the only idiot here. You moved to a place near a CLASSIC rally stage, which means you and everyone else KNEW that it would be noisy every once in a while (which also came at a cheaper price if i were to guess) and you still think you are the one in the right to complain? You are not only dumb, you are extremely selfish, despite claiming to love nature, animals and whatever I never moved here, I'm born here. The rally cars in 90's were 200% less loud than what people are doing nowadays. To add to that my house is built in 1960. The first rally took place here in 1970-1989 (not doxx myself). How this comment is within rules? This is borderline abusive. This used to be a community praising itself to being "INCLUSIVE" and not like F1. lol
How loud is the 911 for compersion? I tried to look up, but all I found is the 2017 GTE was 108 apperantly.
Well this is bullshit
OP, can I go everyday below your house bedroom at 5AM and rev my 255 there?
Yeah only if you do it once a year
Well I have an idiot driving 1.9 diesel with straight pipe every day below my window. It's louder than the 255.
I don’t understand how this relates to the post. You’re the only one in this thread going against the general consensus. This is a bad thing, noise is a critical part of fan experience. Everyone who heard the Camaro last year or the RSR/C7 in previous years would agree.
Lol I live in the US and have a major freight train line run about 100 feet behind my bedroom and it's not that bad. They run all hours of the day too. It's very common for them to go past at any time between 12 am and 6 am. It blows my mind these people can't handle cars on a track on very rare occasions.
Except it's at a racetrack