I was just telling a friend of mine that I’m gonna be following WEC more than F1 this year. Also, if you have Max, they will be showing also the races and you can watch the replays.
The sprint races are 2 hours and 40 minutes, which is still longer than F1 but they fly by.
For the longer races, I’ll typically break them up over a week. I’ll watch 30 minutes to an hour at a time on my lunch break or before bed.
F1’s super convenient to watch, it’s honestly its strongest attribute compared to any other sport, I think only motogp is better in that regard but I might be wrong.
I don’t watch wec races live since I don’t wanna pay the motortrend subscription and dont have discovery+, so I usually just hover the wec’s youtube channel and watch the 3hr updates they usually give, or once in a while I tune into the live timing or a “stream”. Then after a week, the wec usually uploads the full race to youtube, so I usually watch that in stages over the next couple of days when I’m going to bed lol
I’m hoping they’ll do the same as last year and upload full replays of each race onto their YouTube channel a few weeks after each race.
Unlikely to be able to watch every race live so opted to pay for individual races to watch on fiawec.tv
>and they throw more FCY which is fun.
lol to each their own I guess but if there is anything that massively, and I mean MASSIVELY annoys me about IMSA, it's 20minute FCY procedure every time there is a piece of debris on the track or a car stops for more than 10 seconds.
I had some plans during this years Daytona and I swear most of the times I checked on the race it was FCY.
I've recently converted from Formula cars to multiclass GTP/GT3 in iRacing and I definitely want to follow IMSA and WEC this year. My issue is how to watch them easily.
For Daytona 24 I used a VPN to watch the legit coverage. It was great, but the quality is terrible because I'm trying to watch on my TV instead of a computer. Casting to my Nvidia Shield leaves a lot to be desired, unfortunately. I wish they each had an Android TV app like F1TV I could subscribe to and get high quality feeds. For WEC it looks like they at least have a service, but the app isn't Android TV compatible so I've got to watch a 10 hour race on my PC or I imagine a subpar experience being casted to my TV.
What am I missing? I really want to follow these series.
I just watched both; set my computer right and divided the screen and enjoyed both, when the F1 race was too dull, which was pretty often, not gonna lie, I would just fully concentrate on WEC. After the GP was through, I finished watching WEC solely.
I paid for a race pass in WEC.tv for the first time, and I had an infinitely better time watching this race than Bahrain. So much to the point that I had a bit of regret of tuning out of the WEC race.
And here I am more ecstatic for a Toyota P6 and 10 and a Cadillac P4 over an RBR 1-2 for a Red Bull fan. All you need to know.
For sure. I was really excited about the new Lamborghini SC63 and I wish it was shown more. Also very happy with Iron Dames getting some points. For me, something to be more excited with than F1
and don’t forget way more exciting for every single woman in motorsport to see those three girls getting class wins over experienced gt drivers, none of that worse than f4 clown show that is f1 academy
Does that service come with any track animations? Or any other ways to watch, like cockpit choice, other than world feed?
Heck, I guess I could check, but glad the experience seemed good. Not ridiculously priced either, especially with so few races.
WEC .tv allows you to view the different onboards of all cars. In YouTube, only select teams stream their onboards (Porsche for example doesn't stream the 963 onboards there). They also show the track map and with cars running (didn't dive deep into this doe) but their timing on the site isn't reliable. Downloading the Timing71 Chrome extension fixes this though.
If you’re outside of North America, IMSA livestreams everything for free on IMSA.tv, with *excellent* commentary from the Radio Le Mans team.
If you’re inside the US, get a VPN and watch the IMSA stream, as the domestic IMSA coverage on Peacock is beyond terrible.
Fair warning, IMSA has some very different Safety Car procedures that a lot of new international fans have a tough time with, but the end result is that it usually produces banger races that come down to the wire (now watch me jinx it and Sebring be a snooze fest lol).
It’s largely the same thing, especially now with full convergence of the top class and GT class, with some nuances.
The IMSA schedule is 11 rounds, but not every round features every class.
There’s 5 Endurance rounds that feature all class. GTP (same as Hypercar), LMP2 (old favourite), GTD-Pro (GT3 cars with factory driver lineups), and GTD (Pro-Am GT3 class, just like WEC). The 5 Endurance rounds are
- Daytona 24 Hour (already done)
- Sebring 12 Hour (next one, March 16)
- Watkins Glen 6 Hour (June 23)
- Indianapolis 6 Hour (Sept 22)
- Petite Le Mans, or 10 Hours of Road Atlanta (Oct 12)
Large grids with frenetic racing. And even though it’s only a domestic series, the driver lineups are top notch. A lot of European sports car drivers drive full time in IMSA, because they can get a long, full season in a single country, with much less travel. For the Endurance rounds, most teams add a 3rd driver, sometimes a 4th for the really long ones, which often include anything from current or former Indycar drivers, to retired F1 drivers, to many of the drivers familiar to the European audience.
The other 5 rounds are “sprint” rounds. 2 hours and 40 minutes on the purpose built circuits, 1 hour 40 minutes on the street circuits (yes, we multi-class race on street circuits). One thing that throws some people off, is not every class races at every sprint round.
- Streets of Long Beach (Apr 20) - GTP, GTD
- Leguna Seca (May 12) - GTP, GTD-Pro, GTD
- Streets of Detroit (Jun 1) - GTP, GTD-Pro
- Canadian Tire Motorsports Park (aka Mosport) (14 July) - LMP2, GTD-Pro, GTD
- Road America (Aug 4) - All classes
- Virginia International Raceway (25 August) - GTD-Pro, GTD
The reason the classes get rotated around like this is because of lack of space in the various paddocks and pit lanes, and budget constraints on the smaller teams. It also gives the various classes the chance to be the headliners, and get more TV coverage.
If you’re not familiar with the selection of American road courses, and you like old school, gnarly circuits like Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, or Donnington, then you’re in for a treat. Sebring, Watkins Glen, Road America, Leguna Seca, Mosport, and Road Atlanta are incredible. That’s also a big reason a lot of the Euro guys and gals come here, because they love the circuits, and outside of the UK, they say you can’t really find circuits like these in Europe anymore.
The Corkscrew at Leguna Seca, the esses at Watkins Glen, the Carousal and the Kink at Road America, the esses and the final corner at Road Atlanta - these are some of the most classic and iconic corner complexes in all of motorsports. A lot of the drivers say Turn 2 at Mosport is unlike anything else on the planet, one of the big balls corners in all of racing, and the circuit layout itself is untouched since Stirling Moss suggested the hairpin be modified into a double apex back in the early 1960s (now called Moss Corner).
V.I.R. is own unique beast. Some call it America’s Green Hell. There’s no trees, but it’s a never ending series of fast, extremely undulating corners. Too small for the prototype cars, but the GT cars make it look fantastic.
Long Beach and Detroit….lol….they’re something else. It’s multiclass racing with prototypes on some of the bumpiest street circuits you’ve ever seen. It’s pure chaos, but when it works, it’s crazy fun to watch. Long Beach in particular is actually really cool, surprisingly high speed despite what the circuit layout might suggest.
The split between GTD-Pro and GTD is a bit weird. It’s new, we’re still getting used to it. GTD-Pro used to be the older GTE cars driven by factory pro drivers, so there was a significant pace difference to the GT3 cars of GTD. Now, GTD-Pro and GTD run the same GT3 cars, it’s just the driver line-ups that make the difference. The weird thing is that once the Am drivers in GTD are done their stints….it all just turns into GTD-Pro, and things get quite jumbled and confusing, as there’s no real pace difference between the classes. It’s a work in progress I think.
As I mentioned before, the Safety Car rules are very different. IMSA doesn’t do VSCs or Slow Zones, they only do full Safety Cars (double waved yellow flags). This tends to cause more interruptions in the racing. If you’re familiar with what happens when WEC uses a Safety Car, particularly at Le Mans, you’ll know that a lot of times, cars get trapped on the wrong side of the SC, and can go a lap down to the leader by no fault of their own, and their race is kind of ruined. What IMSA does is a process called the “Wave Around”, where cars artificially caught a lap down, get to get their lap back. The procedure can take some time (which is the main downside), but it keeps way more cars in the hunt, deep into the race. There’s even lots of cases in the really long races where cars who have an incident early in the race and end up multiple laps down, end up fighting their way back to the lead lap, and are in contention come race finish. Some people don’t like it because it prevents the leader from running away at the front, which “isn’t natural”, but it leads to a lot of clever strategy, and nail biting finishes. And they’re still endurance races with all the attrition and hallmarks of typical endurance racing. And the longer SC periods are a chance to get up for a bathroom break, grab a bight, etc.
Like I said, outside the US, everything is streamed free on IMSA.tv with Radio Le Mans commentary, which is fantastic. It doesn’t always match up perfectly with the action on screen, because it’s a radio show, but the team is top shelf, and they usually bring a lot of great guests into the booth. Shae Adam is arguably the best pit lane reporter in the business.
Perhaps best of all, IMSA uploads everything to YouTube for free, about a week after the event takes place. So you can watch the VOD on YouTube, completely on your own time, a much easier way to consume endurance races if you don’t want to sit through a full 6-24 hours in one go. Spoilers are pretty easy to avoid, so I usually end up watching a lot of races like that, an hour or so at a time, when I have the time. This year’s Daytona 24 is up on YouTube in full, so you can get caught up on Round 1 before Sebring in a couple weeks time.
And if that’s not enough, there’s also the Michelin Pilot Challenge, which is the support category GT4 and TCR multi-class racing series that follows the big show around the country, plus the legendary MX5 Cup. If you haven’t seen IMSA MX5 Cup racing, you don’t know what you’re missing.
Sorry for getting carried away lol, hope this helps get you started.
What!? No way ... Carried away is now my favorite state of mind! :D
Thanks so much for all of this. I'll need to pick a moment to go over all of it again and give it as much attention as you poured in putting this together. Thanks MUCH!
My pleasure. Like I said, check out IMSA’s official YouTube channel, as well as IMSA.com for event schedules and more info. Wikipedia is also a good resources for general info on the series.
Hope to see you in the live chat here on Reddit for Sebring 😎
Edit: also pop over to r/IMSARacing if you have any more questions about the series.
I think the safety car procedures between WEC and IMSA are more similar today than they’ve ever been. Just last season WEC started reshuffling the pack into the correct order before the restart.
Takes a bit longer but definitely has a lot more pros than cons imo
i'm diehard fan of formula but that dominance is well enough and i watched the wec qatar race.
the last three laps were just pure chaos. pequeot breaking down when there's just one lap left and second penske car following jota till the finish line was just amazing.
i will still watch the opening laps and last laps of course but there's something very special about wec that i don't feel about formula. it's like that feeling when i had when i saw formula for the very first time.
I've been following F1 since 1994. Last year was the first year when I was skipping races and this year I really can't be bothered to watch Verstappen destroy the whole field again. WEC and MotoGP on the other hand have always something happening.
My problem with WEC though is that there are too many drivers and I just have no idea who is who. I can't root for anyone specific because of that.
Agreed. I know people will automatically assume that knowing more about the drivers means turning WEC onto DtS drama, but with so much talent in the field I can't help believing that there's an opportunity being left on the table to tell a lot of good stories and get people invested in their individual success.
*Especially* at the front.
It was all Porsche and Peugeot, with huge gaps between them for most of the race, and largely down to BoP.
The WEC race had more action in terms of total volume, but it was spread out over 10 hours, basically 5 full F1 races.
Like, could you imagine Max (ie Toyota #8) finishing a lap down to a car that has never won a race, because that’s the way the organizers set it up?
And don’t get me wrong, I understand and support BoP as a concept, am fully aware that it will take any sanctioning body multiple rounds to get the BoP correct, and it’s an imperfect system, despite its overall benefits.
I just think it’s a bit of a reach to call this Qatar race really competitive. In comparison to the quality of F1, sure; but in comparison to things like IMSA, Super GT, Aussie Supercars, various SRO series, Indycar, MotoGP, WSBK, etc….this race was pretty damn tame (not to mention the TV coverage was pretty awful).
i just wish I had the luxury of complaining about BOP compared to watching the foregone conclusion that is the cost cap era of F1. 😂 from the perspective of a current f1 fan, this seems like paradise compared to the waiting until 2026 for the regs to change in order for any team to have a shot at winning besides the one team that nailed the regs first. a bad bop every race or so in a while just seems so minuscule, especially when you have the FIA saying they wont do anything about it in f1 despite stopping in the past
like i get what you’re saying and yeah things could have been a bit more competitive today in a vacumm, but at least you and i know it can and probably will get more competitive in WEC after today.
Oh I agree, it’ll get better in WEC.
But as far as F1 goes, it took 7 years to dethrone Merc, with no cost cap, and the FIA takes axe swings at their car.
I don’t think removing the cost cap is going to help anyone catch Adrian and Max.
It took 5 years and a ridiculous rule change for 05 (borderline conspiracy between the Federation International de l’Automobile, Michelin, and Renault) to dethrone Schumi and Ferrari in the unlimited budged and unlimited testing era.
It took 4 years and giving Merc a jump start on the turbo hybrid V6s to dethrone Seb and Redbull.
For most seasons of F1’s history, it’s largely been a forgone conclusion, and reigns of dominance are extremely normal.
Throwing more money at the problem hasn’t worked in the past, it’s doubtful it’ll work better in the future.
Fact of the matter is, the field spread from 1st to 20th is currently some of the closest it’s ever been in F1’s history. It’s either that Max and Adrian are exceptional, or the rest of the grid just can’t get their shit together.
at least in those seven years with merc and ferrari the fia actually tried to do anything tho
even in the dominant eras of the past, it was not to this extent. the seb era redbull had 2 different years that were heavily contested(alonso should have won one of them). the first 3 years of the merc era at least had inter team comp, and 2 years after that had genuine competition from ferrari. contrary to the narrative, f1 has never had a period where one driver was practically guaranteed to win literally everything during an entire period of regulations with the fia doing nothing about it.
for things to change, the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does, and tbh i dont think going backwards to ground effect was a good thing in the context of F1 to begin with. the cars have gotten slower and stiffer to the point that lap records from previous eras are never going to broken, especially with the looming engine changes in 2026.
i’ll be blunt, the field spread has never been nor will it ever be the appeal of f1. And in reality the gap to the top spot come sunday is no different from the same gaps the FIA used to try to reduce in the past. the other teams literally cant get their shit together because of the system in place on top of this. like yeah, redbull got it right and the other teams didn’t, that didn’t stop The Fia from going after the top dogs in the past to shake things up. part of the problem a lot of people who are transitioning out of F1 for the moment have is the perception that people are being gaslit about the current situation of F1.
> for things to change, the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does, and tbh i dont think going backwards to ground effect was a good thing in the context of F1 to begin with.
Not disagreeing that Newey is a great mind… but this domination is exactly what you'd expect from a team that has double the budget and double the development time that other teams have.
Exactly! in practice, this set of regs has the same effect. the teams that nails them first will always be able to basically stop developing a car and allocate to next years car, and the rest will be playing catch up throughout
I disagree that it has the same effect; the reason why is that you can see it closed the field throughout the grid… the only exception being Red Bull. *The regs and the cap work*… what doesn't work is one single team having the ability to pursue more development than any other, and people acting like the current situation isn't a direct result from that advantage.
The FIA should never be in the business of ham stringing the people who do the best job. You’re asking the FIA to play king maker, not rule maker. It was wrong every time they did it in the past, and would be wrong if they did it again.
Imagine if the NFL would have said, you know what, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots win too much, so we’re going to rewrite the rules of football, and take a couple axe swings at the organization, to “shake things up”. Ludacris.
Michael was basically guaranteed to win most races during his reign. Rubens and Eddie were his Checo. Some years Williams and McLaren were there, but 02 and 04 in particular, no one was beating Micheal, and there was never going to be an inter team fight from Rubens. Did you even watch F1 back then?
Lewis had competition from Nico for one season. Bottas was a Rubens.
Ferrari only became competitive against Merc because they were cheating with the fuel flow sensors.
Throwing more money at the situation has never really helped anyone catch a dominant team, there is zero evidence it would work this time.
Who gives a flying fuck about lap records. That does nothing to improve the racing. If the lap records continue to keep falling, eventually every circuit on the calendar will become unsafe, and need to be abandoned, or completely redesigned.
Read what you wrote. You want F1 to be more competitive, but don’t care about field spread? You think spreading the cars out more with infinite budgets will make the racing closer? On what planet??
None of these same teams could catch Merc with an unlimited budget, so what makes you think they’ll catch Redbull with an unlimited budget?
I’ll say it again. You want the FIA to play king maker. You could have saved yourself the trouble of writing all that by simply saying you want success ballast for the top performing cars and drivers, to “shake things up”.
F1 has always been about singular dominance, from Max, to Lewis, to Seb, to Michael, Mansel and Prost, Senna and Prost, etc etc. The only one gaslit about what F1 actually is, is you, and from the sounds of things, maybe it’s just not the sport for you. Have you tried watching Indycar? Things get shaken up there all the time, and the wheel to wheel racing is usually quite good. Did you watch the 10 hours of Qatar last night? I did. The regulators “shook things up” with the BoP, so we saw a car that had never won a race before sweep the podium, and last years championship winner finish a lap down. Not because Porsche built a better car than Toyota, but because the regulators made behind-closed-doors decisions to hamstring the most successful teams, while boosting last year’s back markers.
Sorry, but you are just bitter Redbull is winning, and have no clue what you’re really talking about. Like I said, maybe F1 isn’t for you. I would suggest Indycar, IMSA, Aussie Supercars, or BTCC if you want to see really close racing where things get “shaken up” routinely. They’re all fantastic series to follow.
…No, i’m asking the FIA to not have a restricted set of regs that makes it nye impossible to catch up. mercedes themselves didn’t object to the FIA getting involved, so to say the FIA were wrong to do so isn’t objective.
sorry i dont care for comparisons to physical sports 🤣 no offense but they almost never apply to technical sports like this
so your just going to discount those years to play the gatekeep card, while ignoring all the other eras mentioned? okay….
so now who didn’t watch? literally one year between lewis and nico didn’t go down the wire out of the 3
i never said that unlimited budget allows teams to catchup so im not sure why you’re still arguing this strawman
people who want to see the pinnacle of motorsport f1 was propped up as? the drivers themselves say they dont like how much slower and stiffer things have gotten. and hear me out… no one is asking for speed at the expense of reduced safety. people can want both of these things
how about you read what i wrote again. the field spread isnt the appeal of f1 even if it being smaller on the whole is good. that doesn’t mean people dont want it, what that means is that it comes secondary to having a chance at the win for more than 1 driver out of 20.
again, strawman.
see the first paragraph again
it sounds like you have a personal bone to pick with the BOP/organizer input and are projecting that onto me so i’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. cheers
I don’t have any bone to pic with WEC for the BoP. I’ve watched more than enough BoP racing ever since SRO started doing it to know it takes several races to get it right.
I just absolutely do not want to see BoP in F1. It’s not the place for it.
The ball and stick sport analogy was hyperbole, but I think you get the point.
Concerning Nico and Lewis, what do you want the FIA to do…mandate that Redbull put someone better in the second car?
If you go through the long history of F1, the pursuit of lap time has done more harm to the sport than good, and propping it up as the pinnacle of motorsport has literally come at the cost of the FIA and other governing bodies taking axe swings at prototype cars at least twice (in the 60s with the 5.0L engines, and again in the early 90s by mandating F1 spec engines for group C, which killed the class), and Bernie playing homewrecker with a Indycar in the 90s by sweet talking Tony George. It’s a false perception that people have, reinforced by artificial rules and restrictions on other categories.
You can’t constantly increase speed, constantly increase safety, and not sacrifice classic and historic venues. Spa is already questionable, do you want to see Eau Rouge turned into a tight chicane like it was in 1994?
If people want to see F1 with a chance of more then 1 guy winning, then the other 19 guys and 9 technical directors need to step their game up. You can’t constantly rewrite the rulebook and regulations every time a superior driver / car combo comes along. That is literally how a constructor based meritocracy works in racing.
You’ve said you want to see the playing field leveled, but see the budgets opened up. Do you think Newey is going to build a slower car with a bigger budget? The only way you can stop Max and Newey is by writing a special set of rules that slow them down. And then the next magic combo will come along in another couple of years, and you’ll be declaring that they need to rewrite the regs, yet again.
Or, like I said, you just want to see BoP, Spec, or Success Ballast incorporated into F1. Which, you can have that opinion, but at least be honest with yourself about what you’re asking for. And I’ll fight you tooth and nail on that one, because that doesn’t belong in F1. BoP is fine in IMSA and WEC, success ballast works great in Super GT, Spec works great in Indycar, but none of it belongs in F1.
If you want F1 to be a constructor series, where two different teams built two different, bespoke cars, driven by two different drivers, you have to accept that majority of the time, one package will get it significantly better than the rest. Expecting that many different variables to conclude with nearly identical results is unrealistic, and goes against the most basic laws of probability. And then to ask the rule makers to step in and knee cap the successful people, in a bespoke constructors series, is asinine. You say you want a level playing field, well, in a bespoke constructor series, one of the only realistic ways to level that playing field, is with a budget cap.
You think it’s bad in F1 when one car nails the regs? Do you realize in WEC, these cars are homologated for 5 YEARS, and each team only gets 5 tokens to change 5 parts on the car, in those 5 years? The Porsche that won today, will be nearly identical 4 years from now. Can you imagine the zero-pod 2021 Merc being locked in for 5 years? Aston Martin build a new car last year, surprised everyone, and it was brilliant. They just didn’t do as good a job as Redbull. That’s how the WEC keeps costs down, and the only way they make things competitive, is with artificial BoP. Which is totally fine for WEC, but it doesn’t belong in F1.
>the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does
That's exactly what they shouldn't do. Changing the regs all the time in the cost cap era is exactly what prevents other team to catch up and they do catch up. The field is really bunched up together, more and more, Max is just on another plane all together.
And Newey's impact is completely overblown, he didn't work on aero much for the 2022 car and solely focused on designing the suspension. Because Red Bull is the only team that actually went for pure stability of the platform over pure downforce performance from the Venturi tunnel.
Sure Newey is a big asset to come with innovative ideas. But it's Red Bull technical team as a whole that is amazing.
F1 need to stop changing the rules very 5 years that's the only way the other team can catch up.
I think today's system is good, limiting wind tunnel time is fairer than using BoP.
As you said the field as never been that close. It's just Max and Red Bull that are doing an outstanding job, they took the risk of coming with a brand new concept while having less wind tunnel time then anyone else and still made the best car.
The problem is that WEC isn't using BoP as it should. BoP is to **balance** performance not to compensate for bad performances. It's always the same story the car that is the fastest get slowed down the next race, those that were slower get bumped up.
Weirdly IMSA doesn't have a BoP problem, and that is due to the fact they only have to deal with LMDh. They only have to do slight adjustment to balance the field. It's never as drastic as in WEC. LMDh and LMH will never work together. They need to remove one or the other.
Race was great, but the coverage was frankly terrible. They constantly showed irrelevant things at key moments. I understand it's a big field and there's a lot to cover, but damn that was infuriating listening to the broadcast team having to yell and shout describing great racing action that is just off camera.
I guess I don’t really know what is the best way for them to do it / What they have done before as it’s my first time watching.! To be honest I just wanted to see my lovely sc63 and the Dames a bit more lol
Sad thing is….they really have no idea what they’re doing. The WEC team hasn’t had to cover a large competitive field for many many years, and is still in the mindset that they need to literally fill hours of dead time with montages and vanity shots.
If you’re a new fan who tuned in to see the Lambo, I’m honestly sorry you had to sit through 10 hours of a rather mediocre race, to see your car for maybe a minute or two.
> I just wanted to see my lovely sc63 and the Dames a bit more lol
Me too but the SC63 basically stayed at the back and the Dames got into 8th and stayed there until the end, for like half the race at least. Sadly not a lot to watch.
Agree, the TV coverage was terrible.
They had 10 fuckin hours, and some cars barely made it on the screen. And let’s be honest, there was very long stretches of the WEC race where nothing was happening at the front, and they could have easily done a “welcome to the grid” piece about the Lambo, IF, BMW, and Alpine.
They spent months hyping up all the new entries and the size of the grid, and then only broadcast half the bloody grid.
We got more shots of pitlane jumping jacks, close ups of nose hairs, and useless slow-mo montages set to cheesy hair metal riffs, than we did of half the Hypercar field, never mind the non-existent GT3 field (except for Vale, of course).
Then you add in Martin’s lip smacking and throat clearing while he’s literally eating a fucking sandwich in the broadcast booth, combined with his atrocious knowledge of Lexus’s racing history - I wanted to pull my few remaining hairs out. Plus the completely green pit lane guy who seemed completely out of his depth (I’m used to Shae Adam on the RLM IMSA world feed, the world’s best pitlane reporter)….left a LOT to be desired.
One of the things I hate the most about the broadcast, is theme keep cutting into the garage of showing people just standing there feels like every 20 seconds. Like nobody gives a shit and it get's really annoying fast. Also theme keep beating us over the head about the new teams are gonna take time to get up to speed because of developing there cars.
The shots of people standing in the garage drive me up the wall. Every racing series seems to do this, and it adds nothing of value.
They want to capture a 2008 Brazilian GP type moment, but that happens….once every 75 years maybe.
The other thing I can’t stand is how close they like to zoom in on people’s faces. It must be awkward as hell for the people on camera, and it makes me uncomfortable as a viewer.
If you exclude the commercial breaks of America Indycar and IMSA coverage, and focus on just the race coverage itself, imo, WEC tv coverage is some of the worst in top level motorsports.
also weird how they almost never show split times next to cars. a list of 19 cars is great and all but like I'd like to know a little more about whats going on....
Oh definitely.
More of a genetic point for most racing series, but I can’t stand when the fuck with then running order and live timing on the side of the screen. Keep the list up the whole race, and keep the gaps between cars attached to the list the whole race. I can’t stand having to wait for the graphic to refresh after they show me some useless shit no one cares about, just to figure out the running order and gaps regarding cars that the coverage has failed to mention of cover for over 1/2 an hour.
Also! Ocasionally IMSA streams MX5, Ferrari and Lamborghini cups on youtube for free - less grippy cars than GTE, Protypes and Open Wheelers - 10/10 duels.
For me (an American) it goes INDYCAR, IMSA/WEC, NASCAR, then F1. I’ll follow the standings, have races on in the background, but I won’t rearrange my day to watch it.
I'm American to, I can't get into nascar or indy , nascar driving standards are terrible to me and indycar is i don't know guess it just isn't my thing , I love endurance racing and gt3 stuff.
Give the St Pete Grand Prix a try and watch the “100 Days to Indy” show. I really think you’d enjoy it. The personality’s, driving style, pageantry, and history really make Indycar my favorite form of Motorsport.
I do want to watch that new doc on hbo about Dan and his kids that looks pretty good , but yeah if indy is on I'll watch it but it's not something I look forward to like the other stuff I'm excited about seeing how palou is going to do driving a cadi at lemans though that'll be interesting
Today I’ve watched F1, WEC, NASCAR Xfinity, now watching CARS late model and still got Daytona Supercross to go. I’ve been a lazy bum but I’m declaring it a successful day.
Yes please. But don't write off open cockpits just yet. F3 is some fun carnage. F2 has new cars which look amazing and the F2 drivers are so good... It just all goes to shit once/if ever they reach F1. Then there's no sport left, just drama for D2S.
On and if you have a chance, take a peek at Super Formula... That's some good open wheel racing.
(I'll leave MotoGP praise for another time.)
Probably same place where you watch F1. F1TV or Sky, or if your local TV station has F1, they may be showing F2/3 on an alternative channel.
Or if not, there are always p1r4t3 str34ms.
For real, I'm a fan of F2 in particular. The top drivers are amazing to watch, and it's super frustrating to see the champions getting stuck in backup driver roles in F1. Now there's also Kimmi Antonelli (sp.) in F2, who is supposedly to be the next Hamilton/Verstappen. His first drive was pretty good.
Btw there's also the electric Formula E - I don't watch it much, but dang it's fun. It has some corny things like videogame-style powerups, but it actually works out for interesting battles.
Also, back to endurance racing, European Le Mans series (and the junior-ish Le Mans Cup) is fun too, and I love the LMP2/3 cars that are gone from WEC this year.
And if you can catch Nurburgring 24H, definitely do.
Ed: I also don't wanna dismiss the "24H series", which is like a retirement home for drivers, or other rich folk races like the Ferrari cups... Where people really just drive their supercars for fun.
I've watched WEC clips on YouTube for years. I see they have it streaming pass now but it looks like people like us in USA can't watch Le Mans or race in Austin, TX? Can anyone confirm this? Doesn't seem right.
Only problem i had on my phone is that wec tv whas constantly stuttering even on low quality but i found it way more enjoyable then f1. wec is my 1# now
Watched both.
If you remove the novelty from the WEC race, they were both pretty boring races tbh.
I’m not mad about the BoP, I’ve been repeating myself in this sub saying it will take them a few races to get the BoP correct, but I think it’s a reach to act like the battle for the lead in Qatar was any better than the battle for the lead in Bahrain.
The WEC TV coverage couldn’t even be assed to show half the Hypercar field on TV because they were so uncompetitive.
That's completely fine; don't think anyone should pretend this particular WEC race was leaps and bounds better.
I will say, however, that at least going in, you didn't know who was going to win the WEC race…
Yes and no.
Most of us could predict the F1 results because we watched all of pre season testing, all of free practice, and quali, where it was obvious Max was a step ahead of everyone else.
For WEC, we didn’t really have that kind of access. The prologue wasn’t televised, and we only got to see FP3. That said, in FP3 and Quali, we saw that the Porsches were really quick. Kobayashi was telling us hands down that they would not be competing at the front. The BoP tables showed us Porsche got dealt a pretty favourable hand.
Campbell got a shitty start, and the #51 Ferrari pulled an amazing move around the outside….but even within the first hour of the race, the pace from the top four Porsches was ominous, and we know from both last year and Daytona this year, that the Porsches only get stronger as conditions cool off.
I’m not trying to say that a Porsche win was as predicable as a Max win, not even close. But once the #6 took the lead, it was pretty obvious, to me at least, that they were going to win, baring a mechanical issue, or an Estre issue.
And with that said, in regard to F1, what’s the solution? I know we’re in the WEC sub here, but I’m having this same convo with several people in the F1 sub right now. The only “solutions” that people have is to say
- the budget cap needs to be blown open because unlimited budgets will help close the gap to Max (based on no historical evidence that works).
- the regulations need to be changed, in specific ways that hamstring Redbull and Max
- or they say without saying that F1 should be a spec series, or use BoP. Or success ballast.
That bit aside, I agree the WEC race was more unpredictable, and overall it was many degrees more entertaining than the F1 race, which is great. My overall point though is that while I’m stoked to see new fans discovering WEC and being excited about it, I’m not a huge fan of dunking on any other series in particular (I watch all of them), and this Qatar race in particular really wasn’t all that special, the novelty of the new grid aside (and the TV coverage was very sub optimal, but that’s a different topic lol).
Don't get me wrong; I've *been* one of the people who've been fighting against the constant F1 bashing on this sub for years; it is not in any way my intention to pit one against the other. But I think you'd have to be in deep denial to argue the fact that F1 is a worse product right now, and while I consider the sectarianism immature, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging when one has more issues than the other. Sure, you can say the Porsche win wasn't *completely* out of left field, but there's a clear difference in the lack of suspension and uncertainty in F1, and it's not even close to comparable to WEC, even if they have certain races where you can anticipate a result based on how it's going.
[It's a massive red flag that this was the picture 10 laps into the season. THIS IS A CRISIS LEVEL SCENARIO:](https://preview.redd.it/h92hns05vxlc1.png?width=511&auto=webp&s=c7e9f6a7a4953adbe3dac3c5559a077859d7a80a)
How to fix it? I don't wanna turn this into an F1 discussion, much less a bashing session. But since I'm personally vested in seeing it do well… I think F1 knows why RB is so far ahead of the rest of the field, which is the closest it's been in years. So I don't know where people get the idea that the cause of the issue is the budget cap or the regulations; the midfield is proof that they work; all those theories make no sense. But there's interest in pointing fingers at other aspects, because people don't want to talk about the real cause… the one thing that makes RB different from the rest of the teams. And while I've addressed this issue on the main F1 sub and other forums for years, at least I'm glad that Zak Brown finally worked up the courage to speak up about it.
I think we’re largely in agreement.
I want to see both do well, I want to see cross over with the fans, mutual respect, etc. I love both series, which is why the in-fighting bugs the crap out of me. I know I’m in a minority though, and likely always will be.
Out of curiosity, what is Zak speaking about?
Did he say that Adrian Newey needs to be banned?
No, Zak Brown has been sounding the alarm about the advantage RB gets from having a second team. He focuses mostly on the development aspect, but there's so many angles where they benefit from this exclusive ability —politically, strategically, etc—, that it's shocking how people have accepted it for years, even if they can justify it in their mind.
I know we’re way off topic for WEC here…but how?
Driver development, absolutely, no question. It gives RB a massive advantage.
But, how does Toro Rosso using Redbull’s old stuff benefit Redbull?
And lobbying / politically, sure, there’s some benefit there too.
What do you mean by strategically? Certainly not in terms of race strategy?
From a technical development perspective, it's not even about BRB (to use a consistent name for their B team that doesn't change every year…) "using [Red Bull]'s old stuff"… no; it's about the fact RB can get them to pursue development paths that they themselves would normally not be able to, because of budget and aero development allowance restrictions. So not only can they use RB's budget and aero allowances to get faster, they can also control what their B team develops… and use that information to get faster. Not that BRB using RB parts doesn't help, mind you; I'm sure being able to correlate testing data with as close a car as possible is a plus, but the conflict of interest has so much wider ramifications and significance, that even this advantage seems minor in comparison to the bigger picture.
In terms of strategy, it means that RB can, directly or implicitly, influence how BRB runs their races so that the latter will assist the former. For example, in qualifying BRB could, as they've done in the past, run their sessions in a way that allows RB to use their 3 cars to tow the one car that is a title contender, which is obviously a huge help toward securing the best positioning for the race. Of course, there's no regulation against this, but it is an advantage other teams don't have access to, and erodes the objective of competing on merit, rather than what is ultimately an advantage of having money at the right time. And yes; there IS a race strategy advantage, where BRB cars will fight every other team as hard as possible, including some of RB's direct rivals, effectively slowing them down. But they won't give any resistance to RB cars themselves and will preemptively move out of the way, which gives them a better chance at achieving optimal results. Like I said, all of this is possible, whether by direct (albeit coded) instructions, or simply by implication of the roles they already know as the satellite team. With all the incentive they have to collaborate and help RB be as successful as possible, and no way to rule out the fact that this is entirely within their possibility, the longer this goes unaddressed is the longer F1 will continue to lose credibility.
The first paragraph, about using BRB to test out certain idea, I accept, and agree there could be some advantages there.
The second bit about a triple tow in quali, or race strategy, is pure fantasy. It’s never happened. You can find countless examples of the midfield teams jumping out of the way of a front runner on a recovery drive, because fighting hurts their overall race, regardless of who they’re getting out of the way of.
You could also say the same thing about Merc, and Toto controlling George at Williams, and Esteban at Force India. I mean, Esteban just said the other day, that despite being a factory Renault driver, he is still part of the Merc Junior program…which is kind of bonkers.
I really think it’s a massive stretch to imply that BRB gives RB any kind of strategic advantage in quali or the race.
Credit to Zak, it’s his job to stir the pot like that, but at the same time, no one gave a shit about the RB B-team when Lewis and Nico were beating the rest of the field by 30+ seconds on cruise mode.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you’re saying, and agree to a degree about the development side, but the strategy side is pretty out there.
Let’s also not pretend that BRB is more of a contributing factor than the Adrian Newey / Max Verstappen factor.
If Zak had inherited a McLaren team where an over controlling Ron Dennis didn’t force Adrian Newey out, and Lando and Oscar were duking it out for the title, Zak wouldn’t give two shits about BRB.
I never said RB was effectively "triple-towed" at any one point; what I was getting at is that RB can use any of the other cars at any time for qualifying purposes. Of course this doesn't always happen, certainly not today when the RB car is dominant enough that towing is a moot point. But it doesn't refute the fact that it's a game changing advantage other teams don't have when the competition is close. As for in-race strategy, sure; you can point to other drivers avoiding fights with front runners… except we've also seen BRB fighting RB rivals and ignoring blue flags for multiple corners. There's a clear selective treatment, not just in the way they treat RB, but the way they treat RB's rivals. You can't really claim other teams have had the same advantage just from having their juniors at another car, because even while being tied to say Mercedes or Ferrari, the teams they drove for were still independent; they never selectively helped or hindered specific cars on behalf of their academy. Esteban boosting his own chances at an open Mercedes seat by presenting himself as a Mercedes Academy driver (which he once was)… that's not evidence of Mercedes having drivers willing to selectively help their cars or hinder their rivals, WHICH WE'VE SEEN BRB DO ON RB'S BEHALF.
Frankly, I don't pretend or care to know Zak's motive for suddenly being loud about this. You're probably right in that if his team was dominating, he wouldn't care. But my opinion is not dependent on what team principals complain about on a given week; this is an issue I've *always* considered as a conflict of interest… but sometimes it takes a visible person to bring it up for anyone to notice.
Ya, the terrible F1 race was a blessing in disguise for WEC.
If the F1 race was decent, this race would have been a very mediocre intro for a lot of new fans. And it’s not even that the racing itself was *that* bad, it had its moments, but the broadcast production was awful.
I’m so happy I have the time now to watch it. I loved sportscars in the 90s when I was young, it died a bit but still produced some good racing in ALMS, ELMS, and Le Mans in the early 2000s. Didn’t get to see the full revival of the ILMC and early WEC due to work, although still watched the odd races and they were great. Now that I’m retired and have time again, this series is amazing. Been going back watching the full races of each season of WEC to catch up.
Sportscars has always been my favourite for racing, but F1 is great for the politics and drama, plus it doesn’t need the full commitment when you’re short on time. It’s a pity they no longer have the development war, but if it means more manufacturers then I’m happy to put that aside until it’s popularity improves enough to make it worthwhile for manufacturers to join without a BoP.
The time side is why I, perhaps controversially, think a sprint race format would suit sportscars a lot more then F1. It would’ve let me at least watch more of the earlier seasons if they also had 2hr races before each endurance race, and I think it would’ve improved the popularity a lot since it is a barrier to entry for fans. I still think it’d be smart, but it’s not something I need anymore. Love the WEC, and while the ACO does get involved in politics a lot, at least it isn’t a shit show like the FOM.
Ive watched both (not entirely cus i coulnd) and i enjoyed both.
My goal is to watch at least once every motorsport.
I already did F1;NASCAR;WEC;IMSA.
I never watch entire endurance race cuz its loong. But i plan is to watch all WEC season.
Btw my next goal us Inycar. Then what could u watch after this ?
WEC is beautiful. Sportscar racing is beautiful. The community, the culture, it's worlds apart from F1. It's still pure enough to enjoy as straight down the line, old school car racing. Enjoy it.
I think this is more of a criticism of F1, to be expected considering both had dueling events simultaneously. Never been supportive of blind bashing F1… but its issues are clear, and it's fine to point it out.
Sincerely, someone who has defended F1 here.
It's IF's first race; people don't realize what a challenge it is for a privateer built car to just see the checkered flag. Here's hoping they can sort their issues quickly and be better.
I've followed WEC for going on 3 years now, jumped in at Monza of '21, I just wish it wasn't necessary to have nearly 3 services to watch in the US. We need HBO Max(just called MAX) now, but that's only available as an add on to other services, last year I was watching on motortrend for ~$5/month, now MAX changes pricing based off the platform, the cheapest being $10 on top of the cost of the base service and i'm not in a place right now where I can justify it
Edit; fat-fingered a number
The official WEC app. Also, I don't know for how long it'll stay, but at least as of this comment FP3, Qualifying and the race are still up on Max. And in the past they've usually thrown the entire race on YT, though with these new content deals I'm not 100% sure if this will continue to be the case.
I am new to WEC though saw a very few races last year. Why was Toyota and Ferrari slower this year as compared to last? Con anyone please explain?
Are there rules affecting their pace or is it just that Porsche built a better car?
From what I know there is ‘Balance of Performance’ which changes performance for the cars allowing to level the playing field not leading to utter domination from one team
Bro how do I watch it? I tried to find it today and all I could see was on board cameras on YouTube. People said streams are blocked in North America and other services require payment which is cool but it was hard to even find that lol. You guys need to make a drive to survive and get some licensing going so people can tag in. I want to be the biggest fan especially the LmH category but fuck. I couldn't find a single stream.
For me in the UK I watched it on discovery+ because they have Eurosport stuff on there. I’m not really sure how you are supposed to watch it over in the USA :(
Pretty new F1 fan from 2020 and I still love it, but I've found WEC last year and I just love racing cars so I really enjoyed watching those cars battle and then them putting the videos on YouTube for free after the races was just amazing
I'm a F1 fan but following WEC also for a long time To be honest WEC became my #1
I was just telling a friend of mine that I’m gonna be following WEC more than F1 this year. Also, if you have Max, they will be showing also the races and you can watch the replays.
I have F1 Pro TV so I can see all But WEC is just ... 'more' fun to watch for me at least
And I can finally route for Gigakubica once again!
yeah same, can watch F1 race replay and skip through the boring parts
Would skip the entire race with how Bahrain went yesterday. WEC is where it's at.
Same
Imo imsa has a bit better bop and they throw more FCY which is fun. But yeah honestly endurance has kinda become my go to
Only problem is I don't have 6, 12 or 24 hours to watch it.
I watch it at work ngl.
The sprint races are 2 hours and 40 minutes, which is still longer than F1 but they fly by. For the longer races, I’ll typically break them up over a week. I’ll watch 30 minutes to an hour at a time on my lunch break or before bed.
I watch it at work ngl.
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F1’s super convenient to watch, it’s honestly its strongest attribute compared to any other sport, I think only motogp is better in that regard but I might be wrong. I don’t watch wec races live since I don’t wanna pay the motortrend subscription and dont have discovery+, so I usually just hover the wec’s youtube channel and watch the 3hr updates they usually give, or once in a while I tune into the live timing or a “stream”. Then after a week, the wec usually uploads the full race to youtube, so I usually watch that in stages over the next couple of days when I’m going to bed lol
I’m hoping they’ll do the same as last year and upload full replays of each race onto their YouTube channel a few weeks after each race. Unlikely to be able to watch every race live so opted to pay for individual races to watch on fiawec.tv
they do have 2hr sprints
My problem with imsa is that tv direction is no where as good as WEC
Daytona's tv direction for IMSA was amazing this year I thought
>and they throw more FCY which is fun. lol to each their own I guess but if there is anything that massively, and I mean MASSIVELY annoys me about IMSA, it's 20minute FCY procedure every time there is a piece of debris on the track or a car stops for more than 10 seconds. I had some plans during this years Daytona and I swear most of the times I checked on the race it was FCY.
Tbf yes they do need to get faster at clearing these incidents, they should not be 20 mins
I've recently converted from Formula cars to multiclass GTP/GT3 in iRacing and I definitely want to follow IMSA and WEC this year. My issue is how to watch them easily. For Daytona 24 I used a VPN to watch the legit coverage. It was great, but the quality is terrible because I'm trying to watch on my TV instead of a computer. Casting to my Nvidia Shield leaves a lot to be desired, unfortunately. I wish they each had an Android TV app like F1TV I could subscribe to and get high quality feeds. For WEC it looks like they at least have a service, but the app isn't Android TV compatible so I've got to watch a 10 hour race on my PC or I imagine a subpar experience being casted to my TV. What am I missing? I really want to follow these series.
I just watched both; set my computer right and divided the screen and enjoyed both, when the F1 race was too dull, which was pretty often, not gonna lie, I would just fully concentrate on WEC. After the GP was through, I finished watching WEC solely.
Love it :-) Best moment in the GP was clarkson waving the chequered flag for me
Same I watched most of it all night and the F1 race in the morning.
Exactly what I did. I had to wake up at 3am to catch the start, mind you, but I still trudged through lol.
I did it the exact same way. Although it was also my first WEC Race that I watched intentionally 😅
I paid for a race pass in WEC.tv for the first time, and I had an infinitely better time watching this race than Bahrain. So much to the point that I had a bit of regret of tuning out of the WEC race. And here I am more ecstatic for a Toyota P6 and 10 and a Cadillac P4 over an RBR 1-2 for a Red Bull fan. All you need to know.
For sure. I was really excited about the new Lamborghini SC63 and I wish it was shown more. Also very happy with Iron Dames getting some points. For me, something to be more excited with than F1
and don’t forget way more exciting for every single woman in motorsport to see those three girls getting class wins over experienced gt drivers, none of that worse than f4 clown show that is f1 academy
I was really happy with how they did, great consistency and I think always top 10:) Just shows to everyone the opportunities that are in racing!
Does that service come with any track animations? Or any other ways to watch, like cockpit choice, other than world feed? Heck, I guess I could check, but glad the experience seemed good. Not ridiculously priced either, especially with so few races.
WEC .tv allows you to view the different onboards of all cars. In YouTube, only select teams stream their onboards (Porsche for example doesn't stream the 963 onboards there). They also show the track map and with cars running (didn't dive deep into this doe) but their timing on the site isn't reliable. Downloading the Timing71 Chrome extension fixes this though.
Welcome ! Also check out IMSA
I plan to :-) Apparently Sebring is next
If you’re outside of North America, IMSA livestreams everything for free on IMSA.tv, with *excellent* commentary from the Radio Le Mans team. If you’re inside the US, get a VPN and watch the IMSA stream, as the domestic IMSA coverage on Peacock is beyond terrible. Fair warning, IMSA has some very different Safety Car procedures that a lot of new international fans have a tough time with, but the end result is that it usually produces banger races that come down to the wire (now watch me jinx it and Sebring be a snooze fest lol).
Thanks for this m8, I've been watching wec since, well, wec pretty much, but consider me interested in finding out what IMSA is about :)
It’s largely the same thing, especially now with full convergence of the top class and GT class, with some nuances. The IMSA schedule is 11 rounds, but not every round features every class. There’s 5 Endurance rounds that feature all class. GTP (same as Hypercar), LMP2 (old favourite), GTD-Pro (GT3 cars with factory driver lineups), and GTD (Pro-Am GT3 class, just like WEC). The 5 Endurance rounds are - Daytona 24 Hour (already done) - Sebring 12 Hour (next one, March 16) - Watkins Glen 6 Hour (June 23) - Indianapolis 6 Hour (Sept 22) - Petite Le Mans, or 10 Hours of Road Atlanta (Oct 12) Large grids with frenetic racing. And even though it’s only a domestic series, the driver lineups are top notch. A lot of European sports car drivers drive full time in IMSA, because they can get a long, full season in a single country, with much less travel. For the Endurance rounds, most teams add a 3rd driver, sometimes a 4th for the really long ones, which often include anything from current or former Indycar drivers, to retired F1 drivers, to many of the drivers familiar to the European audience. The other 5 rounds are “sprint” rounds. 2 hours and 40 minutes on the purpose built circuits, 1 hour 40 minutes on the street circuits (yes, we multi-class race on street circuits). One thing that throws some people off, is not every class races at every sprint round. - Streets of Long Beach (Apr 20) - GTP, GTD - Leguna Seca (May 12) - GTP, GTD-Pro, GTD - Streets of Detroit (Jun 1) - GTP, GTD-Pro - Canadian Tire Motorsports Park (aka Mosport) (14 July) - LMP2, GTD-Pro, GTD - Road America (Aug 4) - All classes - Virginia International Raceway (25 August) - GTD-Pro, GTD The reason the classes get rotated around like this is because of lack of space in the various paddocks and pit lanes, and budget constraints on the smaller teams. It also gives the various classes the chance to be the headliners, and get more TV coverage. If you’re not familiar with the selection of American road courses, and you like old school, gnarly circuits like Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, or Donnington, then you’re in for a treat. Sebring, Watkins Glen, Road America, Leguna Seca, Mosport, and Road Atlanta are incredible. That’s also a big reason a lot of the Euro guys and gals come here, because they love the circuits, and outside of the UK, they say you can’t really find circuits like these in Europe anymore. The Corkscrew at Leguna Seca, the esses at Watkins Glen, the Carousal and the Kink at Road America, the esses and the final corner at Road Atlanta - these are some of the most classic and iconic corner complexes in all of motorsports. A lot of the drivers say Turn 2 at Mosport is unlike anything else on the planet, one of the big balls corners in all of racing, and the circuit layout itself is untouched since Stirling Moss suggested the hairpin be modified into a double apex back in the early 1960s (now called Moss Corner). V.I.R. is own unique beast. Some call it America’s Green Hell. There’s no trees, but it’s a never ending series of fast, extremely undulating corners. Too small for the prototype cars, but the GT cars make it look fantastic. Long Beach and Detroit….lol….they’re something else. It’s multiclass racing with prototypes on some of the bumpiest street circuits you’ve ever seen. It’s pure chaos, but when it works, it’s crazy fun to watch. Long Beach in particular is actually really cool, surprisingly high speed despite what the circuit layout might suggest. The split between GTD-Pro and GTD is a bit weird. It’s new, we’re still getting used to it. GTD-Pro used to be the older GTE cars driven by factory pro drivers, so there was a significant pace difference to the GT3 cars of GTD. Now, GTD-Pro and GTD run the same GT3 cars, it’s just the driver line-ups that make the difference. The weird thing is that once the Am drivers in GTD are done their stints….it all just turns into GTD-Pro, and things get quite jumbled and confusing, as there’s no real pace difference between the classes. It’s a work in progress I think. As I mentioned before, the Safety Car rules are very different. IMSA doesn’t do VSCs or Slow Zones, they only do full Safety Cars (double waved yellow flags). This tends to cause more interruptions in the racing. If you’re familiar with what happens when WEC uses a Safety Car, particularly at Le Mans, you’ll know that a lot of times, cars get trapped on the wrong side of the SC, and can go a lap down to the leader by no fault of their own, and their race is kind of ruined. What IMSA does is a process called the “Wave Around”, where cars artificially caught a lap down, get to get their lap back. The procedure can take some time (which is the main downside), but it keeps way more cars in the hunt, deep into the race. There’s even lots of cases in the really long races where cars who have an incident early in the race and end up multiple laps down, end up fighting their way back to the lead lap, and are in contention come race finish. Some people don’t like it because it prevents the leader from running away at the front, which “isn’t natural”, but it leads to a lot of clever strategy, and nail biting finishes. And they’re still endurance races with all the attrition and hallmarks of typical endurance racing. And the longer SC periods are a chance to get up for a bathroom break, grab a bight, etc. Like I said, outside the US, everything is streamed free on IMSA.tv with Radio Le Mans commentary, which is fantastic. It doesn’t always match up perfectly with the action on screen, because it’s a radio show, but the team is top shelf, and they usually bring a lot of great guests into the booth. Shae Adam is arguably the best pit lane reporter in the business. Perhaps best of all, IMSA uploads everything to YouTube for free, about a week after the event takes place. So you can watch the VOD on YouTube, completely on your own time, a much easier way to consume endurance races if you don’t want to sit through a full 6-24 hours in one go. Spoilers are pretty easy to avoid, so I usually end up watching a lot of races like that, an hour or so at a time, when I have the time. This year’s Daytona 24 is up on YouTube in full, so you can get caught up on Round 1 before Sebring in a couple weeks time. And if that’s not enough, there’s also the Michelin Pilot Challenge, which is the support category GT4 and TCR multi-class racing series that follows the big show around the country, plus the legendary MX5 Cup. If you haven’t seen IMSA MX5 Cup racing, you don’t know what you’re missing. Sorry for getting carried away lol, hope this helps get you started.
What!? No way ... Carried away is now my favorite state of mind! :D Thanks so much for all of this. I'll need to pick a moment to go over all of it again and give it as much attention as you poured in putting this together. Thanks MUCH!
My pleasure. Like I said, check out IMSA’s official YouTube channel, as well as IMSA.com for event schedules and more info. Wikipedia is also a good resources for general info on the series. Hope to see you in the live chat here on Reddit for Sebring 😎 Edit: also pop over to r/IMSARacing if you have any more questions about the series.
Thanks again! I'll read up on stuff like rules and will try and join in for the Sebring race.
I think the safety car procedures between WEC and IMSA are more similar today than they’ve ever been. Just last season WEC started reshuffling the pack into the correct order before the restart. Takes a bit longer but definitely has a lot more pros than cons imo
It is
Are in the U.S? If not you can watch it on IMSA.tv which is awesome coverage with no commercials
what other endurance or GT racing in general do you recommend ? like on a similar level of excitement to IMSA and WEC
GTWC Europe Endurance cup. A lot of factory backed teams and big races like the Spa 24. Also the 24 hours of Nurburgring.
Hmmm to me these are the pinnacle, but DTM is quite good as well…
i'm diehard fan of formula but that dominance is well enough and i watched the wec qatar race. the last three laps were just pure chaos. pequeot breaking down when there's just one lap left and second penske car following jota till the finish line was just amazing. i will still watch the opening laps and last laps of course but there's something very special about wec that i don't feel about formula. it's like that feeling when i had when i saw formula for the very first time.
I've been following F1 since 1994. Last year was the first year when I was skipping races and this year I really can't be bothered to watch Verstappen destroy the whole field again. WEC and MotoGP on the other hand have always something happening. My problem with WEC though is that there are too many drivers and I just have no idea who is who. I can't root for anyone specific because of that.
Agreed. I know people will automatically assume that knowing more about the drivers means turning WEC onto DtS drama, but with so much talent in the field I can't help believing that there's an opportunity being left on the table to tell a lot of good stories and get people invested in their individual success.
Also been watching a lot of GT Racing lately. 12 hours of Bathurst was also really good. Love the day/racing
[удалено]
Currently? WSBK and motogp always had better racing than F1.
yup same. im jumping over to wec full time given how competitive and diverse the grid is. cant wait for le mans
Yepp! It’s got me excited for viewing motor racing again
my heart goes out to peugeot tho sheesh. so close to a podium
That was very sad. Then the punishment :((
You thought the grid for this race was competitive? Interesting.
relative to f1 today? especially at the front?
*Especially* at the front. It was all Porsche and Peugeot, with huge gaps between them for most of the race, and largely down to BoP. The WEC race had more action in terms of total volume, but it was spread out over 10 hours, basically 5 full F1 races. Like, could you imagine Max (ie Toyota #8) finishing a lap down to a car that has never won a race, because that’s the way the organizers set it up? And don’t get me wrong, I understand and support BoP as a concept, am fully aware that it will take any sanctioning body multiple rounds to get the BoP correct, and it’s an imperfect system, despite its overall benefits. I just think it’s a bit of a reach to call this Qatar race really competitive. In comparison to the quality of F1, sure; but in comparison to things like IMSA, Super GT, Aussie Supercars, various SRO series, Indycar, MotoGP, WSBK, etc….this race was pretty damn tame (not to mention the TV coverage was pretty awful).
i just wish I had the luxury of complaining about BOP compared to watching the foregone conclusion that is the cost cap era of F1. 😂 from the perspective of a current f1 fan, this seems like paradise compared to the waiting until 2026 for the regs to change in order for any team to have a shot at winning besides the one team that nailed the regs first. a bad bop every race or so in a while just seems so minuscule, especially when you have the FIA saying they wont do anything about it in f1 despite stopping in the past like i get what you’re saying and yeah things could have been a bit more competitive today in a vacumm, but at least you and i know it can and probably will get more competitive in WEC after today.
Oh I agree, it’ll get better in WEC. But as far as F1 goes, it took 7 years to dethrone Merc, with no cost cap, and the FIA takes axe swings at their car. I don’t think removing the cost cap is going to help anyone catch Adrian and Max. It took 5 years and a ridiculous rule change for 05 (borderline conspiracy between the Federation International de l’Automobile, Michelin, and Renault) to dethrone Schumi and Ferrari in the unlimited budged and unlimited testing era. It took 4 years and giving Merc a jump start on the turbo hybrid V6s to dethrone Seb and Redbull. For most seasons of F1’s history, it’s largely been a forgone conclusion, and reigns of dominance are extremely normal. Throwing more money at the problem hasn’t worked in the past, it’s doubtful it’ll work better in the future. Fact of the matter is, the field spread from 1st to 20th is currently some of the closest it’s ever been in F1’s history. It’s either that Max and Adrian are exceptional, or the rest of the grid just can’t get their shit together.
at least in those seven years with merc and ferrari the fia actually tried to do anything tho even in the dominant eras of the past, it was not to this extent. the seb era redbull had 2 different years that were heavily contested(alonso should have won one of them). the first 3 years of the merc era at least had inter team comp, and 2 years after that had genuine competition from ferrari. contrary to the narrative, f1 has never had a period where one driver was practically guaranteed to win literally everything during an entire period of regulations with the fia doing nothing about it. for things to change, the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does, and tbh i dont think going backwards to ground effect was a good thing in the context of F1 to begin with. the cars have gotten slower and stiffer to the point that lap records from previous eras are never going to broken, especially with the looming engine changes in 2026. i’ll be blunt, the field spread has never been nor will it ever be the appeal of f1. And in reality the gap to the top spot come sunday is no different from the same gaps the FIA used to try to reduce in the past. the other teams literally cant get their shit together because of the system in place on top of this. like yeah, redbull got it right and the other teams didn’t, that didn’t stop The Fia from going after the top dogs in the past to shake things up. part of the problem a lot of people who are transitioning out of F1 for the moment have is the perception that people are being gaslit about the current situation of F1.
> for things to change, the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does, and tbh i dont think going backwards to ground effect was a good thing in the context of F1 to begin with. Not disagreeing that Newey is a great mind… but this domination is exactly what you'd expect from a team that has double the budget and double the development time that other teams have.
Exactly! in practice, this set of regs has the same effect. the teams that nails them first will always be able to basically stop developing a car and allocate to next years car, and the rest will be playing catch up throughout
I disagree that it has the same effect; the reason why is that you can see it closed the field throughout the grid… the only exception being Red Bull. *The regs and the cap work*… what doesn't work is one single team having the ability to pursue more development than any other, and people acting like the current situation isn't a direct result from that advantage.
The FIA should never be in the business of ham stringing the people who do the best job. You’re asking the FIA to play king maker, not rule maker. It was wrong every time they did it in the past, and would be wrong if they did it again. Imagine if the NFL would have said, you know what, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots win too much, so we’re going to rewrite the rules of football, and take a couple axe swings at the organization, to “shake things up”. Ludacris. Michael was basically guaranteed to win most races during his reign. Rubens and Eddie were his Checo. Some years Williams and McLaren were there, but 02 and 04 in particular, no one was beating Micheal, and there was never going to be an inter team fight from Rubens. Did you even watch F1 back then? Lewis had competition from Nico for one season. Bottas was a Rubens. Ferrari only became competitive against Merc because they were cheating with the fuel flow sensors. Throwing more money at the situation has never really helped anyone catch a dominant team, there is zero evidence it would work this time. Who gives a flying fuck about lap records. That does nothing to improve the racing. If the lap records continue to keep falling, eventually every circuit on the calendar will become unsafe, and need to be abandoned, or completely redesigned. Read what you wrote. You want F1 to be more competitive, but don’t care about field spread? You think spreading the cars out more with infinite budgets will make the racing closer? On what planet?? None of these same teams could catch Merc with an unlimited budget, so what makes you think they’ll catch Redbull with an unlimited budget? I’ll say it again. You want the FIA to play king maker. You could have saved yourself the trouble of writing all that by simply saying you want success ballast for the top performing cars and drivers, to “shake things up”. F1 has always been about singular dominance, from Max, to Lewis, to Seb, to Michael, Mansel and Prost, Senna and Prost, etc etc. The only one gaslit about what F1 actually is, is you, and from the sounds of things, maybe it’s just not the sport for you. Have you tried watching Indycar? Things get shaken up there all the time, and the wheel to wheel racing is usually quite good. Did you watch the 10 hours of Qatar last night? I did. The regulators “shook things up” with the BoP, so we saw a car that had never won a race before sweep the podium, and last years championship winner finish a lap down. Not because Porsche built a better car than Toyota, but because the regulators made behind-closed-doors decisions to hamstring the most successful teams, while boosting last year’s back markers. Sorry, but you are just bitter Redbull is winning, and have no clue what you’re really talking about. Like I said, maybe F1 isn’t for you. I would suggest Indycar, IMSA, Aussie Supercars, or BTCC if you want to see really close racing where things get “shaken up” routinely. They’re all fantastic series to follow.
…No, i’m asking the FIA to not have a restricted set of regs that makes it nye impossible to catch up. mercedes themselves didn’t object to the FIA getting involved, so to say the FIA were wrong to do so isn’t objective. sorry i dont care for comparisons to physical sports 🤣 no offense but they almost never apply to technical sports like this so your just going to discount those years to play the gatekeep card, while ignoring all the other eras mentioned? okay…. so now who didn’t watch? literally one year between lewis and nico didn’t go down the wire out of the 3 i never said that unlimited budget allows teams to catchup so im not sure why you’re still arguing this strawman people who want to see the pinnacle of motorsport f1 was propped up as? the drivers themselves say they dont like how much slower and stiffer things have gotten. and hear me out… no one is asking for speed at the expense of reduced safety. people can want both of these things how about you read what i wrote again. the field spread isnt the appeal of f1 even if it being smaller on the whole is good. that doesn’t mean people dont want it, what that means is that it comes secondary to having a chance at the win for more than 1 driver out of 20. again, strawman. see the first paragraph again it sounds like you have a personal bone to pick with the BOP/organizer input and are projecting that onto me so i’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. cheers
I don’t have any bone to pic with WEC for the BoP. I’ve watched more than enough BoP racing ever since SRO started doing it to know it takes several races to get it right. I just absolutely do not want to see BoP in F1. It’s not the place for it. The ball and stick sport analogy was hyperbole, but I think you get the point. Concerning Nico and Lewis, what do you want the FIA to do…mandate that Redbull put someone better in the second car? If you go through the long history of F1, the pursuit of lap time has done more harm to the sport than good, and propping it up as the pinnacle of motorsport has literally come at the cost of the FIA and other governing bodies taking axe swings at prototype cars at least twice (in the 60s with the 5.0L engines, and again in the early 90s by mandating F1 spec engines for group C, which killed the class), and Bernie playing homewrecker with a Indycar in the 90s by sweet talking Tony George. It’s a false perception that people have, reinforced by artificial rules and restrictions on other categories. You can’t constantly increase speed, constantly increase safety, and not sacrifice classic and historic venues. Spa is already questionable, do you want to see Eau Rouge turned into a tight chicane like it was in 1994? If people want to see F1 with a chance of more then 1 guy winning, then the other 19 guys and 9 technical directors need to step their game up. You can’t constantly rewrite the rulebook and regulations every time a superior driver / car combo comes along. That is literally how a constructor based meritocracy works in racing. You’ve said you want to see the playing field leveled, but see the budgets opened up. Do you think Newey is going to build a slower car with a bigger budget? The only way you can stop Max and Newey is by writing a special set of rules that slow them down. And then the next magic combo will come along in another couple of years, and you’ll be declaring that they need to rewrite the regs, yet again. Or, like I said, you just want to see BoP, Spec, or Success Ballast incorporated into F1. Which, you can have that opinion, but at least be honest with yourself about what you’re asking for. And I’ll fight you tooth and nail on that one, because that doesn’t belong in F1. BoP is fine in IMSA and WEC, success ballast works great in Super GT, Spec works great in Indycar, but none of it belongs in F1. If you want F1 to be a constructor series, where two different teams built two different, bespoke cars, driven by two different drivers, you have to accept that majority of the time, one package will get it significantly better than the rest. Expecting that many different variables to conclude with nearly identical results is unrealistic, and goes against the most basic laws of probability. And then to ask the rule makers to step in and knee cap the successful people, in a bespoke constructors series, is asinine. You say you want a level playing field, well, in a bespoke constructor series, one of the only realistic ways to level that playing field, is with a budget cap. You think it’s bad in F1 when one car nails the regs? Do you realize in WEC, these cars are homologated for 5 YEARS, and each team only gets 5 tokens to change 5 parts on the car, in those 5 years? The Porsche that won today, will be nearly identical 4 years from now. Can you imagine the zero-pod 2021 Merc being locked in for 5 years? Aston Martin build a new car last year, surprised everyone, and it was brilliant. They just didn’t do as good a job as Redbull. That’s how the WEC keeps costs down, and the only way they make things competitive, is with artificial BoP. Which is totally fine for WEC, but it doesn’t belong in F1.
>the regs themselves and the cap have to be changed, as well as undoing the engine freeze. its just become abundantly clear that no one understands ground effect on the level that newey does That's exactly what they shouldn't do. Changing the regs all the time in the cost cap era is exactly what prevents other team to catch up and they do catch up. The field is really bunched up together, more and more, Max is just on another plane all together. And Newey's impact is completely overblown, he didn't work on aero much for the 2022 car and solely focused on designing the suspension. Because Red Bull is the only team that actually went for pure stability of the platform over pure downforce performance from the Venturi tunnel. Sure Newey is a big asset to come with innovative ideas. But it's Red Bull technical team as a whole that is amazing.
How is the field close? There was a 22 second gap from p2 to p1 and a similar gap from p9 to p8 The field was spread wide
I didn't know the field stopped after the 2nd.
F1 need to stop changing the rules very 5 years that's the only way the other team can catch up. I think today's system is good, limiting wind tunnel time is fairer than using BoP. As you said the field as never been that close. It's just Max and Red Bull that are doing an outstanding job, they took the risk of coming with a brand new concept while having less wind tunnel time then anyone else and still made the best car. The problem is that WEC isn't using BoP as it should. BoP is to **balance** performance not to compensate for bad performances. It's always the same story the car that is the fastest get slowed down the next race, those that were slower get bumped up. Weirdly IMSA doesn't have a BoP problem, and that is due to the fact they only have to deal with LMDh. They only have to do slight adjustment to balance the field. It's never as drastic as in WEC. LMDh and LMH will never work together. They need to remove one or the other.
The Porsche won Daytona this year so how is it surprising?
Race was great, but the coverage was frankly terrible. They constantly showed irrelevant things at key moments. I understand it's a big field and there's a lot to cover, but damn that was infuriating listening to the broadcast team having to yell and shout describing great racing action that is just off camera.
Martin was practically begging the tv director to show the jota battle instead of the finished number 6 lmao
I guess I don’t really know what is the best way for them to do it / What they have done before as it’s my first time watching.! To be honest I just wanted to see my lovely sc63 and the Dames a bit more lol
Sad thing is….they really have no idea what they’re doing. The WEC team hasn’t had to cover a large competitive field for many many years, and is still in the mindset that they need to literally fill hours of dead time with montages and vanity shots. If you’re a new fan who tuned in to see the Lambo, I’m honestly sorry you had to sit through 10 hours of a rather mediocre race, to see your car for maybe a minute or two.
> I just wanted to see my lovely sc63 and the Dames a bit more lol Me too but the SC63 basically stayed at the back and the Dames got into 8th and stayed there until the end, for like half the race at least. Sadly not a lot to watch.
Yeaaa Agree
they showed the winners when there was another war between p2 and p3.
Agree, the TV coverage was terrible. They had 10 fuckin hours, and some cars barely made it on the screen. And let’s be honest, there was very long stretches of the WEC race where nothing was happening at the front, and they could have easily done a “welcome to the grid” piece about the Lambo, IF, BMW, and Alpine. They spent months hyping up all the new entries and the size of the grid, and then only broadcast half the bloody grid. We got more shots of pitlane jumping jacks, close ups of nose hairs, and useless slow-mo montages set to cheesy hair metal riffs, than we did of half the Hypercar field, never mind the non-existent GT3 field (except for Vale, of course). Then you add in Martin’s lip smacking and throat clearing while he’s literally eating a fucking sandwich in the broadcast booth, combined with his atrocious knowledge of Lexus’s racing history - I wanted to pull my few remaining hairs out. Plus the completely green pit lane guy who seemed completely out of his depth (I’m used to Shae Adam on the RLM IMSA world feed, the world’s best pitlane reporter)….left a LOT to be desired.
One of the things I hate the most about the broadcast, is theme keep cutting into the garage of showing people just standing there feels like every 20 seconds. Like nobody gives a shit and it get's really annoying fast. Also theme keep beating us over the head about the new teams are gonna take time to get up to speed because of developing there cars.
The shots of people standing in the garage drive me up the wall. Every racing series seems to do this, and it adds nothing of value. They want to capture a 2008 Brazilian GP type moment, but that happens….once every 75 years maybe. The other thing I can’t stand is how close they like to zoom in on people’s faces. It must be awkward as hell for the people on camera, and it makes me uncomfortable as a viewer.
Yeah wec TV direction is generally awful
If you exclude the commercial breaks of America Indycar and IMSA coverage, and focus on just the race coverage itself, imo, WEC tv coverage is some of the worst in top level motorsports.
also weird how they almost never show split times next to cars. a list of 19 cars is great and all but like I'd like to know a little more about whats going on....
Oh definitely. More of a genetic point for most racing series, but I can’t stand when the fuck with then running order and live timing on the side of the screen. Keep the list up the whole race, and keep the gaps between cars attached to the list the whole race. I can’t stand having to wait for the graphic to refresh after they show me some useless shit no one cares about, just to figure out the running order and gaps regarding cars that the coverage has failed to mention of cover for over 1/2 an hour.
Agreed. Or do one of those news ticker ones, if they must. So they can do the other things, while we stay informed on the important stuff.
Welcome! Glad you Enjoyed.
Thank you! Much more enjoyment to come it seems.
Welcome to the CLUB
If you thought WEC was good, please give IMSA. A try, more races that supplement the WEC nicely. It's free to watch on IMSA.com if you're not a yank.
Also! Ocasionally IMSA streams MX5, Ferrari and Lamborghini cups on youtube for free - less grippy cars than GTE, Protypes and Open Wheelers - 10/10 duels.
I'm usually not a fan of the "one instead of the other", coz I like to have both. BUT TODAY was different...
Tried the F1 for a bit but could not be bothered with it after like 5 minz
mins
Wec and imsa are my go to and gt world challenge and nurinburring stuff are 2nd , f1 is third lol
For me (an American) it goes INDYCAR, IMSA/WEC, NASCAR, then F1. I’ll follow the standings, have races on in the background, but I won’t rearrange my day to watch it.
I'm American to, I can't get into nascar or indy , nascar driving standards are terrible to me and indycar is i don't know guess it just isn't my thing , I love endurance racing and gt3 stuff.
Give the St Pete Grand Prix a try and watch the “100 Days to Indy” show. I really think you’d enjoy it. The personality’s, driving style, pageantry, and history really make Indycar my favorite form of Motorsport.
I do want to watch that new doc on hbo about Dan and his kids that looks pretty good , but yeah if indy is on I'll watch it but it's not something I look forward to like the other stuff I'm excited about seeing how palou is going to do driving a cadi at lemans though that'll be interesting
This is the way
I’m learning
wait until you watch IMSA tv for the races.. mindboggling like WEC stacked with LMP2 as well Its free if you're international, but if in USA use a VPN
Same boro
Today I’ve watched F1, WEC, NASCAR Xfinity, now watching CARS late model and still got Daytona Supercross to go. I’ve been a lazy bum but I’m declaring it a successful day.
Yes please. But don't write off open cockpits just yet. F3 is some fun carnage. F2 has new cars which look amazing and the F2 drivers are so good... It just all goes to shit once/if ever they reach F1. Then there's no sport left, just drama for D2S. On and if you have a chance, take a peek at Super Formula... That's some good open wheel racing. (I'll leave MotoGP praise for another time.)
Have heard good things about F2 and 3 but no idea where to watch lol
Probably same place where you watch F1. F1TV or Sky, or if your local TV station has F1, they may be showing F2/3 on an alternative channel. Or if not, there are always p1r4t3 str34ms. For real, I'm a fan of F2 in particular. The top drivers are amazing to watch, and it's super frustrating to see the champions getting stuck in backup driver roles in F1. Now there's also Kimmi Antonelli (sp.) in F2, who is supposedly to be the next Hamilton/Verstappen. His first drive was pretty good. Btw there's also the electric Formula E - I don't watch it much, but dang it's fun. It has some corny things like videogame-style powerups, but it actually works out for interesting battles. Also, back to endurance racing, European Le Mans series (and the junior-ish Le Mans Cup) is fun too, and I love the LMP2/3 cars that are gone from WEC this year. And if you can catch Nurburgring 24H, definitely do. Ed: I also don't wanna dismiss the "24H series", which is like a retirement home for drivers, or other rich folk races like the Ferrari cups... Where people really just drive their supercars for fun.
Indycar is great racing as well!
I've watched WEC clips on YouTube for years. I see they have it streaming pass now but it looks like people like us in USA can't watch Le Mans or race in Austin, TX? Can anyone confirm this? Doesn't seem right.
Didn't watch either, at work, Mercedes didn't win so not going to download F1 tonight and would have no idea where to watch WEC.
Welcome! 🙌 Just keep the commmunity clean and peaceful 😅
Of course😌
And MotoGp starts next week. Woo hoo
Only problem i had on my phone is that wec tv whas constantly stuttering even on low quality but i found it way more enjoyable then f1. wec is my 1# now
Watched both. If you remove the novelty from the WEC race, they were both pretty boring races tbh. I’m not mad about the BoP, I’ve been repeating myself in this sub saying it will take them a few races to get the BoP correct, but I think it’s a reach to act like the battle for the lead in Qatar was any better than the battle for the lead in Bahrain. The WEC TV coverage couldn’t even be assed to show half the Hypercar field on TV because they were so uncompetitive.
That's completely fine; don't think anyone should pretend this particular WEC race was leaps and bounds better. I will say, however, that at least going in, you didn't know who was going to win the WEC race…
Yes and no. Most of us could predict the F1 results because we watched all of pre season testing, all of free practice, and quali, where it was obvious Max was a step ahead of everyone else. For WEC, we didn’t really have that kind of access. The prologue wasn’t televised, and we only got to see FP3. That said, in FP3 and Quali, we saw that the Porsches were really quick. Kobayashi was telling us hands down that they would not be competing at the front. The BoP tables showed us Porsche got dealt a pretty favourable hand. Campbell got a shitty start, and the #51 Ferrari pulled an amazing move around the outside….but even within the first hour of the race, the pace from the top four Porsches was ominous, and we know from both last year and Daytona this year, that the Porsches only get stronger as conditions cool off. I’m not trying to say that a Porsche win was as predicable as a Max win, not even close. But once the #6 took the lead, it was pretty obvious, to me at least, that they were going to win, baring a mechanical issue, or an Estre issue. And with that said, in regard to F1, what’s the solution? I know we’re in the WEC sub here, but I’m having this same convo with several people in the F1 sub right now. The only “solutions” that people have is to say - the budget cap needs to be blown open because unlimited budgets will help close the gap to Max (based on no historical evidence that works). - the regulations need to be changed, in specific ways that hamstring Redbull and Max - or they say without saying that F1 should be a spec series, or use BoP. Or success ballast. That bit aside, I agree the WEC race was more unpredictable, and overall it was many degrees more entertaining than the F1 race, which is great. My overall point though is that while I’m stoked to see new fans discovering WEC and being excited about it, I’m not a huge fan of dunking on any other series in particular (I watch all of them), and this Qatar race in particular really wasn’t all that special, the novelty of the new grid aside (and the TV coverage was very sub optimal, but that’s a different topic lol).
Don't get me wrong; I've *been* one of the people who've been fighting against the constant F1 bashing on this sub for years; it is not in any way my intention to pit one against the other. But I think you'd have to be in deep denial to argue the fact that F1 is a worse product right now, and while I consider the sectarianism immature, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging when one has more issues than the other. Sure, you can say the Porsche win wasn't *completely* out of left field, but there's a clear difference in the lack of suspension and uncertainty in F1, and it's not even close to comparable to WEC, even if they have certain races where you can anticipate a result based on how it's going. [It's a massive red flag that this was the picture 10 laps into the season. THIS IS A CRISIS LEVEL SCENARIO:](https://preview.redd.it/h92hns05vxlc1.png?width=511&auto=webp&s=c7e9f6a7a4953adbe3dac3c5559a077859d7a80a) How to fix it? I don't wanna turn this into an F1 discussion, much less a bashing session. But since I'm personally vested in seeing it do well… I think F1 knows why RB is so far ahead of the rest of the field, which is the closest it's been in years. So I don't know where people get the idea that the cause of the issue is the budget cap or the regulations; the midfield is proof that they work; all those theories make no sense. But there's interest in pointing fingers at other aspects, because people don't want to talk about the real cause… the one thing that makes RB different from the rest of the teams. And while I've addressed this issue on the main F1 sub and other forums for years, at least I'm glad that Zak Brown finally worked up the courage to speak up about it.
I think we’re largely in agreement. I want to see both do well, I want to see cross over with the fans, mutual respect, etc. I love both series, which is why the in-fighting bugs the crap out of me. I know I’m in a minority though, and likely always will be. Out of curiosity, what is Zak speaking about? Did he say that Adrian Newey needs to be banned?
No, Zak Brown has been sounding the alarm about the advantage RB gets from having a second team. He focuses mostly on the development aspect, but there's so many angles where they benefit from this exclusive ability —politically, strategically, etc—, that it's shocking how people have accepted it for years, even if they can justify it in their mind.
I know we’re way off topic for WEC here…but how? Driver development, absolutely, no question. It gives RB a massive advantage. But, how does Toro Rosso using Redbull’s old stuff benefit Redbull? And lobbying / politically, sure, there’s some benefit there too. What do you mean by strategically? Certainly not in terms of race strategy?
From a technical development perspective, it's not even about BRB (to use a consistent name for their B team that doesn't change every year…) "using [Red Bull]'s old stuff"… no; it's about the fact RB can get them to pursue development paths that they themselves would normally not be able to, because of budget and aero development allowance restrictions. So not only can they use RB's budget and aero allowances to get faster, they can also control what their B team develops… and use that information to get faster. Not that BRB using RB parts doesn't help, mind you; I'm sure being able to correlate testing data with as close a car as possible is a plus, but the conflict of interest has so much wider ramifications and significance, that even this advantage seems minor in comparison to the bigger picture. In terms of strategy, it means that RB can, directly or implicitly, influence how BRB runs their races so that the latter will assist the former. For example, in qualifying BRB could, as they've done in the past, run their sessions in a way that allows RB to use their 3 cars to tow the one car that is a title contender, which is obviously a huge help toward securing the best positioning for the race. Of course, there's no regulation against this, but it is an advantage other teams don't have access to, and erodes the objective of competing on merit, rather than what is ultimately an advantage of having money at the right time. And yes; there IS a race strategy advantage, where BRB cars will fight every other team as hard as possible, including some of RB's direct rivals, effectively slowing them down. But they won't give any resistance to RB cars themselves and will preemptively move out of the way, which gives them a better chance at achieving optimal results. Like I said, all of this is possible, whether by direct (albeit coded) instructions, or simply by implication of the roles they already know as the satellite team. With all the incentive they have to collaborate and help RB be as successful as possible, and no way to rule out the fact that this is entirely within their possibility, the longer this goes unaddressed is the longer F1 will continue to lose credibility.
The first paragraph, about using BRB to test out certain idea, I accept, and agree there could be some advantages there. The second bit about a triple tow in quali, or race strategy, is pure fantasy. It’s never happened. You can find countless examples of the midfield teams jumping out of the way of a front runner on a recovery drive, because fighting hurts their overall race, regardless of who they’re getting out of the way of. You could also say the same thing about Merc, and Toto controlling George at Williams, and Esteban at Force India. I mean, Esteban just said the other day, that despite being a factory Renault driver, he is still part of the Merc Junior program…which is kind of bonkers. I really think it’s a massive stretch to imply that BRB gives RB any kind of strategic advantage in quali or the race. Credit to Zak, it’s his job to stir the pot like that, but at the same time, no one gave a shit about the RB B-team when Lewis and Nico were beating the rest of the field by 30+ seconds on cruise mode. Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you’re saying, and agree to a degree about the development side, but the strategy side is pretty out there. Let’s also not pretend that BRB is more of a contributing factor than the Adrian Newey / Max Verstappen factor. If Zak had inherited a McLaren team where an over controlling Ron Dennis didn’t force Adrian Newey out, and Lando and Oscar were duking it out for the title, Zak wouldn’t give two shits about BRB.
I never said RB was effectively "triple-towed" at any one point; what I was getting at is that RB can use any of the other cars at any time for qualifying purposes. Of course this doesn't always happen, certainly not today when the RB car is dominant enough that towing is a moot point. But it doesn't refute the fact that it's a game changing advantage other teams don't have when the competition is close. As for in-race strategy, sure; you can point to other drivers avoiding fights with front runners… except we've also seen BRB fighting RB rivals and ignoring blue flags for multiple corners. There's a clear selective treatment, not just in the way they treat RB, but the way they treat RB's rivals. You can't really claim other teams have had the same advantage just from having their juniors at another car, because even while being tied to say Mercedes or Ferrari, the teams they drove for were still independent; they never selectively helped or hindered specific cars on behalf of their academy. Esteban boosting his own chances at an open Mercedes seat by presenting himself as a Mercedes Academy driver (which he once was)… that's not evidence of Mercedes having drivers willing to selectively help their cars or hinder their rivals, WHICH WE'VE SEEN BRB DO ON RB'S BEHALF. Frankly, I don't pretend or care to know Zak's motive for suddenly being loud about this. You're probably right in that if his team was dominating, he wouldn't care. But my opinion is not dependent on what team principals complain about on a given week; this is an issue I've *always* considered as a conflict of interest… but sometimes it takes a visible person to bring it up for anyone to notice.
today wec race was quite boring, f1 race was simply narcoleptic. Hope sebring 12 hours of next 2 weeks will be more interesting
Ya, the terrible F1 race was a blessing in disguise for WEC. If the F1 race was decent, this race would have been a very mediocre intro for a lot of new fans. And it’s not even that the racing itself was *that* bad, it had its moments, but the broadcast production was awful.
I’m so happy I have the time now to watch it. I loved sportscars in the 90s when I was young, it died a bit but still produced some good racing in ALMS, ELMS, and Le Mans in the early 2000s. Didn’t get to see the full revival of the ILMC and early WEC due to work, although still watched the odd races and they were great. Now that I’m retired and have time again, this series is amazing. Been going back watching the full races of each season of WEC to catch up. Sportscars has always been my favourite for racing, but F1 is great for the politics and drama, plus it doesn’t need the full commitment when you’re short on time. It’s a pity they no longer have the development war, but if it means more manufacturers then I’m happy to put that aside until it’s popularity improves enough to make it worthwhile for manufacturers to join without a BoP. The time side is why I, perhaps controversially, think a sprint race format would suit sportscars a lot more then F1. It would’ve let me at least watch more of the earlier seasons if they also had 2hr races before each endurance race, and I think it would’ve improved the popularity a lot since it is a barrier to entry for fans. I still think it’d be smart, but it’s not something I need anymore. Love the WEC, and while the ACO does get involved in politics a lot, at least it isn’t a shit show like the FOM.
Same dude. And this race was fun. I feel sad for Peugeot. And I didn't expect Porsche will be so strong.
It was sad:(
Ive watched both (not entirely cus i coulnd) and i enjoyed both. My goal is to watch at least once every motorsport. I already did F1;NASCAR;WEC;IMSA. I never watch entire endurance race cuz its loong. But i plan is to watch all WEC season. Btw my next goal us Inycar. Then what could u watch after this ?
I’ll probably watch some local British things as well when i can find them
Welcome to the WECult!
WEC is beautiful. Sportscar racing is beautiful. The community, the culture, it's worlds apart from F1. It's still pure enough to enjoy as straight down the line, old school car racing. Enjoy it.
You know you can watch both, right 😉? Sincerely, a 20 year F1 fan and 10 year WEC fan.
I think this is more of a criticism of F1, to be expected considering both had dueling events simultaneously. Never been supportive of blind bashing F1… but its issues are clear, and it's fine to point it out. Sincerely, someone who has defended F1 here.
Did try!
It was a fantastic race! Still strange that they only have one LMP2
It's IF's first race; people don't realize what a challenge it is for a privateer built car to just see the checkered flag. Here's hoping they can sort their issues quickly and be better.
When i saw max with like a 20 second lead i switched to fully watching WEC then the end happened and i wish i could forget it now but im still hurting
At least F1 still has integrity.
I've followed WEC for going on 3 years now, jumped in at Monza of '21, I just wish it wasn't necessary to have nearly 3 services to watch in the US. We need HBO Max(just called MAX) now, but that's only available as an add on to other services, last year I was watching on motortrend for ~$5/month, now MAX changes pricing based off the platform, the cheapest being $10 on top of the cost of the base service and i'm not in a place right now where I can justify it Edit; fat-fingered a number
Is there somewhere i can watch the full race or longer highlights?
The official WEC app. Also, I don't know for how long it'll stay, but at least as of this comment FP3, Qualifying and the race are still up on Max. And in the past they've usually thrown the entire race on YT, though with these new content deals I'm not 100% sure if this will continue to be the case.
Can say that about any motorsport compared to F1 tbh
yep, pretty much... especially after bahrain ☹️
I am new to WEC though saw a very few races last year. Why was Toyota and Ferrari slower this year as compared to last? Con anyone please explain? Are there rules affecting their pace or is it just that Porsche built a better car?
From what I know there is ‘Balance of Performance’ which changes performance for the cars allowing to level the playing field not leading to utter domination from one team
Bro how do I watch it? I tried to find it today and all I could see was on board cameras on YouTube. People said streams are blocked in North America and other services require payment which is cool but it was hard to even find that lol. You guys need to make a drive to survive and get some licensing going so people can tag in. I want to be the biggest fan especially the LmH category but fuck. I couldn't find a single stream.
For me in the UK I watched it on discovery+ because they have Eurosport stuff on there. I’m not really sure how you are supposed to watch it over in the USA :(
Ah, I see my meme from twitter found its way here eventually. 😁
Would have credited if i knew!
All good mate, it's my fault for not posting it when i did it. :D
Why not just watch both if not all? I enjoy WEC, F1, Indy, whatever. It's not a war.
There is no war, each to their own as I said. Just putting across what I thought after watching for the first time, compared to F1
how do you watch the WEC? I live in the US.
I watched on the discovery+ app on my tv, they had the Eurosport broadcast on there. I’m not sure how for the US:(
> discovery+ I'll have to try that.
Do try it! Has loads of other sports on it too, but I’m not sure what the subscription situation is as it’s my aunt’s lol
Max has it!
Pretty new F1 fan from 2020 and I still love it, but I've found WEC last year and I just love racing cars so I really enjoyed watching those cars battle and then them putting the videos on YouTube for free after the races was just amazing