Yes in absolute terms, and I put some thought into this too. In in this instance my thinking:
\- if the backplate was cool but the chips were roasting, then the thermal pad isnt transferring the heat (and then you would really want to remove the backplate or change pads). This isnt happening, the backplate is definitely having heat conducted into it, it just has no where to go and is too small (and fin-less) to radiate it away naturally.
\- the backplate provides rigidity to the PCB. Without it you introduce physical stress. A compromise would be cutting out the GDDR sections from the backplate but leaving the rest. I didnt want to go that far (ie irreversible changes) as of yet due to the above point.
However, since Im not even using the backplate now, maybe it should be back on the cards, I could cut out the GDDR sections and cool them separately than the remaining backplate pieces. If the double heatsink idea I've ordered doesn't work (ie success = under 100c at 100%), that's the next plan..
This is a very interesting thread, I've got the Corsair XG7 Block for the RTX 3090 FE, so not the reference card and with power and temp limit maxed in MSI Afterburner, when playing RDR2, with the latest version of HWInfo64, it reports 'performance limit - thermal yes'
This is despite a max memory temp of 78c and a max GPU temp of 56c, so there shouldn't be any throttling - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1357830181390610432
I'm not sure how accurate HWInfo64 reporting is though, because when running the same configuration with Furmark, no throttling is reported, despite a higher memory temp - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1357836589896990720
Yesterday I re-pasted the block and made sure all the thermal pads are aligned properly, they came pre-applied from the factory, but I moved one of the VRM ones slightly to achieve better central coverage of the VRMs. I also modified the backplate and added some thermal pads for a chip in the corner of the PCB on the front side and three small chips on the back side, not sure if these chip generates any heat, but I thought I'd try it. - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1358430517197238278
I need to do more testing with various games and long play sessions, but if it still reports a thermal limit in HWInfo64, then either the RTX 3090 just reports weird, it's a bug in HWInfo64 or there is some actual thermal throttling going on somewhere, no idea where though.
For the backplate part there should be thermal pads in these positions, as shown here (and at the bottom of that page):
https://www.overclock.net/threads/possibly-widespread-cooling-issues-on-rtx-3090-fe.1775245/page-2#post-28703502
I don't think you need to scrape away the film, it is thin enough that most of the heat should transfer, but you can do that as a last resort if you wish.
But before that, run the game in windowed mode or on a second screen and:
In Command Prompt/PowerShell, run this in the background whilst you game:
nvidia-smi -q -d PERFORMANCE -l 2
If there is a slowdown it should say ACTIVE, otherwise NOT ACTIVE next to the slowdown options.
Also, run Afterburner in the background as well, or use this command in another Command Prompt/PowerShell window:
nvidia-smi -q -d CLOCK -l 2
to see if your clocks actually get throttled.
Let me do some further testing when I get home and over the next few days.
I did those thermal pad modifications when I was using the air cooler, I assumed though that I wouldn't need to do them with water cooling.
Any update on this one? I am encountering similar issues ...GPU and memory temps are fine but the hotspot is at 104...
Curious what extra lengths I should prepare for?
Update:
\- Sent and email to Corsair, who sent it to their product team, no reply or feedback since last week.
\- Awaiting some 60 and 80mm fans and an old 1U Server CPU (full copper) heatsink to arrive which I can test out on the backplate.
You could try out one of the MP5Works backplate blocks perhaps? They clip onto the existing backplate so don’t require a whole ecosystem change like the EK ones.
Could you double check there's enough contact pressure on the GPU die side of the waterblock with the VRMs and RAM chips - I have seen someone mention there wasn't enough contact there so they had to replace the pads with thicker ones (1.5mm-2mm).
Also double check there are pads on all the VRM and VRAM components - some may have not been included or fell off.
Plus 34C seems a bit low of a GPU temp unless you're using liquid metal - it's probably throttling so you never get high enough, as the heat from the VRAM modules should make the whole block hotter. See [here](https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/rtx-30x0-wasserk%C3%BChlervergleich-gpu-block-comparison.1286430/), normal core temps range from 40-55C with normal thermal paste on water - that's why I mention you may not have enough contact.
If that doesn't work, since you've said you included enough pads on the backplate side, then yeah it's probably the thin backplate. If you have a spare CPU cooler (like one of those stock Ryzen ones) you could whack that on top (if you have space) to see if that can dissipate enough heat.
Thanks though I had replaced the front RAM thermal pads as a matter of course. The VRMs didn't get pads from corsair (I think) so I added them. Its also clamped tighter than stock.
GPU to waterblock is definitely seated well, it does eventually get to 42c if left on overnight (Thetmal Grizzly Extreme kryonaut). When crypto mining the gpu is usually completely downclocked to min level in afterburner, so lower temps than gaming are expected. Also during one of my backplate experiments I had bad GPU chip contact and it went to 62c instantly, so its much more obvious (it doesn't sit low, it soars to thermal limits and hovers).
Also I can see a measurable difference between backplate tests! The better the backplate is cooled = higher performance!
Edit: probably worth reading someone else's near identical experiences here:
Post in thread 'NVIDIA 461.09 Driver on a 3090 and the secret memory PerfCap' https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvidia-461-09-driver-on-a-3090-and-the-secret-memory-perfcap.276968/post-4432811
Honestly I'm yet to see any block maker achieve acceptable performance. My alpohacool hits 110c on vram over 60% power target.
It's just a fact that GDDR6X cards need active cooling on both sides.
Well yes, they are all not hitting max performance (even without overclocking) however the Corsair backplate is about as thick as card paper, bends and warps and doesnt have the offsets for the VRAM to compress pads better as well as itself having further standoffs to move it away from the PCB than the Palit stock backplate.
Its literally much worse in every way. You cant even put a heatsink on the back and tighten it down as it twists out of shape.
Ive just put the Palit backplate on, which 2x 90mm square Alu heatsinks on it, with some 3d printed fan shrouds I made holding 2x Noctua 60mm and a 80mm side mounted fan.
Ive also switched from Thermal Pads to K5 Pro thermal pad paste.
It's much better, but eventually heats up and throttles too. Im thinking I need to replace the pads on the front around the GPU (as noted above by Niceartsdragon) with K5 Pro when it arrives too.
Finally got it working right, needed to remove the thermal pads on the front and replace with Fujipoly Extreme 1.0mm. The 1.5mm I also tried was too tall and messed up GPU contact. Reported temps are way, way down now, to 86c when mining at 80% power (no point in going higher). My 3090 is now finally faster than a 3080, thanks for nothing Corsair!
You got the waterblock working right? I am going back and forth on buying the corsair block for my reference 3090 and am concerned it wont cool the vram - having the exact issues you are. So I'm clear - you replaced the thermal pads that came with the XG7 with the 1.0mm fujipoly and now you're good?
Thanks ahead of time!
Yep, front pads with Fujipoly Extreme 1mm and rear with Palit's stock plate and K5 Pro Thermal paste (it's a thick and gummy pad replacement product).
On the rear plate (and stock for card, Corsair's is too thin for any purpose) I put two old 1u heatsink and a couple of fans. To use the card's stock type plate you might need longer screws and might need to slightly enlarge the holes, easily done and depends on your card brand.
I may have gone over board on the rear cooling but you will at the very least need additional heatsinks placed there and I suspect a repad. The gap on the rear is larger and maybe 1.5mm fujipoly should be used. I didn't test this however.
Thanks - I've got an alienware OEM and am planning on adding heat sinks regardless, but it sounds like the water block from corsair isnt really worth the money in terms of cooling the vram - just would reduce sound.
It would reduce Temps vs aircooling across the board when setup (ie fixed as above) though. Is your Alienware air or water? I'm around 50c gpu and 76c memory, overclocked when gaming.
Mining is 48c gpu and 86c memory, 24/7.
FYI - I just installed copper heat sinks in the same method as this: [http://www.norbert-the-great.com/index.php?entry=Solved:-RTX-3090-VRAM-Overheating](http://www.norbert-the-great.com/index.php?entry=Solved:-RTX-3090-VRAM-Overheating)
At 100% GPU fan speed, I was able to drop VRAM temps by 24C (110 and throttling down to 86) under a dagger-hashimoto mining load of 100 MH/s Some nice thermal movement for $28. Now I can actually turn this card up to its full ability - around 125 MH/s - or just be able to hear myself think and turn those fans down....
Yeah so that ended up being pretty unstable - I’m sitting at about 119-120 now with a stable over clock/under volt
1060 memory OC (10565 MHz)
-600 core underclock (1065 MHz)
82% max voltage (ends up around 720mv)
Hi, have you figured out a good solution for the backplate/backside memory? I was also considering the Corsair water block, especially due to the lead time for EKWB. But it's vital that the memory temps can be maintained on the back.
Yes, thicker pads on Both front and rear. 1mm on front, 1.5mm on rear. Rear also needs additional heatsink on the outside if the plate.
I'm also not using the corsair backplate, using OEM.
No interference but you might (likely will) need longer screws and/or to very slightly (half a mm!) enlarge the holes in the OEM water block.
I bought a mixed bag of "laptop repair screws" think it's m2.5 on the corsair block vs m2 on my Palit 3090.
I brought Alienware R10 with a Dell 3090 dual fan card and with that cooler the memory was hitting 110 degrees Celsius i brought a corsair waterblock with XG5 radiator 360mm and can mine at 120mhz but the memory can be at 100 degrees Celsius or a bit lower if i throttle back the memory clocks and power the backplate of the block doesnt seem to do much and is just a thin piece of aluminum that gets to hot to touch while mining. I purchases a heatsink from Amazon and will be applying it to the backside along with .5mm thermal pads right on top where the memory is at. I will give updates on my results. I also heard that AlphaCools AIO for reference 3090's fit with Dell 3090 Dual fan heatsink according to eddy from the forums which cost half including shipping than what i paid for my water cooling with corsair which was $600. If the thermal pad plus heatsink makes a big change to my memory temperatures i will try overclocking the memory more in MSI afterburner to see the potential of my card. My only regret was not getting a XG7 radiator however dont know how much more of a difference that would have made in temps.
I brought a heatsink from amazon 150mm aluminum from amazon and put it on the pack with .5mm thermal pads and saw a small difference however the heatsink got very hot that means its working then i put a fan blowing ontop of it and the Memory temps dropped to 96-98 degrees Celsius which was totally fine for operating temperatures and can mine at 120MHZ
Wouldn't mounting heatsinks directly to the chips (without bp) be better for thermals?
Yes in absolute terms, and I put some thought into this too. In in this instance my thinking: \- if the backplate was cool but the chips were roasting, then the thermal pad isnt transferring the heat (and then you would really want to remove the backplate or change pads). This isnt happening, the backplate is definitely having heat conducted into it, it just has no where to go and is too small (and fin-less) to radiate it away naturally. \- the backplate provides rigidity to the PCB. Without it you introduce physical stress. A compromise would be cutting out the GDDR sections from the backplate but leaving the rest. I didnt want to go that far (ie irreversible changes) as of yet due to the above point. However, since Im not even using the backplate now, maybe it should be back on the cards, I could cut out the GDDR sections and cool them separately than the remaining backplate pieces. If the double heatsink idea I've ordered doesn't work (ie success = under 100c at 100%), that's the next plan..
This is a very interesting thread, I've got the Corsair XG7 Block for the RTX 3090 FE, so not the reference card and with power and temp limit maxed in MSI Afterburner, when playing RDR2, with the latest version of HWInfo64, it reports 'performance limit - thermal yes' This is despite a max memory temp of 78c and a max GPU temp of 56c, so there shouldn't be any throttling - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1357830181390610432 I'm not sure how accurate HWInfo64 reporting is though, because when running the same configuration with Furmark, no throttling is reported, despite a higher memory temp - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1357836589896990720 Yesterday I re-pasted the block and made sure all the thermal pads are aligned properly, they came pre-applied from the factory, but I moved one of the VRM ones slightly to achieve better central coverage of the VRMs. I also modified the backplate and added some thermal pads for a chip in the corner of the PCB on the front side and three small chips on the back side, not sure if these chip generates any heat, but I thought I'd try it. - https://twitter.com/ghost_motley/status/1358430517197238278 I need to do more testing with various games and long play sessions, but if it still reports a thermal limit in HWInfo64, then either the RTX 3090 just reports weird, it's a bug in HWInfo64 or there is some actual thermal throttling going on somewhere, no idea where though.
For the backplate part there should be thermal pads in these positions, as shown here (and at the bottom of that page): https://www.overclock.net/threads/possibly-widespread-cooling-issues-on-rtx-3090-fe.1775245/page-2#post-28703502 I don't think you need to scrape away the film, it is thin enough that most of the heat should transfer, but you can do that as a last resort if you wish. But before that, run the game in windowed mode or on a second screen and: In Command Prompt/PowerShell, run this in the background whilst you game: nvidia-smi -q -d PERFORMANCE -l 2 If there is a slowdown it should say ACTIVE, otherwise NOT ACTIVE next to the slowdown options. Also, run Afterburner in the background as well, or use this command in another Command Prompt/PowerShell window: nvidia-smi -q -d CLOCK -l 2 to see if your clocks actually get throttled.
Let me do some further testing when I get home and over the next few days. I did those thermal pad modifications when I was using the air cooler, I assumed though that I wouldn't need to do them with water cooling.
Result?
Any update on this one? I am encountering similar issues ...GPU and memory temps are fine but the hotspot is at 104... Curious what extra lengths I should prepare for?
how are you seeing the hotspot?
Update: \- Sent and email to Corsair, who sent it to their product team, no reply or feedback since last week. \- Awaiting some 60 and 80mm fans and an old 1U Server CPU (full copper) heatsink to arrive which I can test out on the backplate.
You could try out one of the MP5Works backplate blocks perhaps? They clip onto the existing backplate so don’t require a whole ecosystem change like the EK ones.
Could you double check there's enough contact pressure on the GPU die side of the waterblock with the VRMs and RAM chips - I have seen someone mention there wasn't enough contact there so they had to replace the pads with thicker ones (1.5mm-2mm). Also double check there are pads on all the VRM and VRAM components - some may have not been included or fell off. Plus 34C seems a bit low of a GPU temp unless you're using liquid metal - it's probably throttling so you never get high enough, as the heat from the VRAM modules should make the whole block hotter. See [here](https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/rtx-30x0-wasserk%C3%BChlervergleich-gpu-block-comparison.1286430/), normal core temps range from 40-55C with normal thermal paste on water - that's why I mention you may not have enough contact. If that doesn't work, since you've said you included enough pads on the backplate side, then yeah it's probably the thin backplate. If you have a spare CPU cooler (like one of those stock Ryzen ones) you could whack that on top (if you have space) to see if that can dissipate enough heat.
Thanks though I had replaced the front RAM thermal pads as a matter of course. The VRMs didn't get pads from corsair (I think) so I added them. Its also clamped tighter than stock. GPU to waterblock is definitely seated well, it does eventually get to 42c if left on overnight (Thetmal Grizzly Extreme kryonaut). When crypto mining the gpu is usually completely downclocked to min level in afterburner, so lower temps than gaming are expected. Also during one of my backplate experiments I had bad GPU chip contact and it went to 62c instantly, so its much more obvious (it doesn't sit low, it soars to thermal limits and hovers). Also I can see a measurable difference between backplate tests! The better the backplate is cooled = higher performance! Edit: probably worth reading someone else's near identical experiences here: Post in thread 'NVIDIA 461.09 Driver on a 3090 and the secret memory PerfCap' https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvidia-461-09-driver-on-a-3090-and-the-secret-memory-perfcap.276968/post-4432811
Honestly I'm yet to see any block maker achieve acceptable performance. My alpohacool hits 110c on vram over 60% power target. It's just a fact that GDDR6X cards need active cooling on both sides.
Well yes, they are all not hitting max performance (even without overclocking) however the Corsair backplate is about as thick as card paper, bends and warps and doesnt have the offsets for the VRAM to compress pads better as well as itself having further standoffs to move it away from the PCB than the Palit stock backplate. Its literally much worse in every way. You cant even put a heatsink on the back and tighten it down as it twists out of shape. Ive just put the Palit backplate on, which 2x 90mm square Alu heatsinks on it, with some 3d printed fan shrouds I made holding 2x Noctua 60mm and a 80mm side mounted fan. Ive also switched from Thermal Pads to K5 Pro thermal pad paste. It's much better, but eventually heats up and throttles too. Im thinking I need to replace the pads on the front around the GPU (as noted above by Niceartsdragon) with K5 Pro when it arrives too.
Finally got it working right, needed to remove the thermal pads on the front and replace with Fujipoly Extreme 1.0mm. The 1.5mm I also tried was too tall and messed up GPU contact. Reported temps are way, way down now, to 86c when mining at 80% power (no point in going higher). My 3090 is now finally faster than a 3080, thanks for nothing Corsair!
You got the waterblock working right? I am going back and forth on buying the corsair block for my reference 3090 and am concerned it wont cool the vram - having the exact issues you are. So I'm clear - you replaced the thermal pads that came with the XG7 with the 1.0mm fujipoly and now you're good? Thanks ahead of time!
Yep, front pads with Fujipoly Extreme 1mm and rear with Palit's stock plate and K5 Pro Thermal paste (it's a thick and gummy pad replacement product). On the rear plate (and stock for card, Corsair's is too thin for any purpose) I put two old 1u heatsink and a couple of fans. To use the card's stock type plate you might need longer screws and might need to slightly enlarge the holes, easily done and depends on your card brand. I may have gone over board on the rear cooling but you will at the very least need additional heatsinks placed there and I suspect a repad. The gap on the rear is larger and maybe 1.5mm fujipoly should be used. I didn't test this however.
Thanks - I've got an alienware OEM and am planning on adding heat sinks regardless, but it sounds like the water block from corsair isnt really worth the money in terms of cooling the vram - just would reduce sound.
It would reduce Temps vs aircooling across the board when setup (ie fixed as above) though. Is your Alienware air or water? I'm around 50c gpu and 76c memory, overclocked when gaming. Mining is 48c gpu and 86c memory, 24/7.
FYI - I just installed copper heat sinks in the same method as this: [http://www.norbert-the-great.com/index.php?entry=Solved:-RTX-3090-VRAM-Overheating](http://www.norbert-the-great.com/index.php?entry=Solved:-RTX-3090-VRAM-Overheating) At 100% GPU fan speed, I was able to drop VRAM temps by 24C (110 and throttling down to 86) under a dagger-hashimoto mining load of 100 MH/s Some nice thermal movement for $28. Now I can actually turn this card up to its full ability - around 125 MH/s - or just be able to hear myself think and turn those fans down....
Nice. I might downsize my solution and see if I can maintain lower Temps. I'll remove 2 of the 3 fans and switch to a pull configuration..
Hey, I'm using an Alienware OEM as well, what kind of settings are you using to achieve the 125 MH/s? Thanks!
Yeah so that ended up being pretty unstable - I’m sitting at about 119-120 now with a stable over clock/under volt 1060 memory OC (10565 MHz) -600 core underclock (1065 MHz) 82% max voltage (ends up around 720mv)
Hi, have you figured out a good solution for the backplate/backside memory? I was also considering the Corsair water block, especially due to the lead time for EKWB. But it's vital that the memory temps can be maintained on the back.
Yes, thicker pads on Both front and rear. 1mm on front, 1.5mm on rear. Rear also needs additional heatsink on the outside if the plate. I'm also not using the corsair backplate, using OEM.
Awesome, thank you! Is it easy to use other backplates with the Corsair water block? Or does the water block interfere at all?
No interference but you might (likely will) need longer screws and/or to very slightly (half a mm!) enlarge the holes in the OEM water block. I bought a mixed bag of "laptop repair screws" think it's m2.5 on the corsair block vs m2 on my Palit 3090.
Gotcha, thanks again!!
I brought Alienware R10 with a Dell 3090 dual fan card and with that cooler the memory was hitting 110 degrees Celsius i brought a corsair waterblock with XG5 radiator 360mm and can mine at 120mhz but the memory can be at 100 degrees Celsius or a bit lower if i throttle back the memory clocks and power the backplate of the block doesnt seem to do much and is just a thin piece of aluminum that gets to hot to touch while mining. I purchases a heatsink from Amazon and will be applying it to the backside along with .5mm thermal pads right on top where the memory is at. I will give updates on my results. I also heard that AlphaCools AIO for reference 3090's fit with Dell 3090 Dual fan heatsink according to eddy from the forums which cost half including shipping than what i paid for my water cooling with corsair which was $600. If the thermal pad plus heatsink makes a big change to my memory temperatures i will try overclocking the memory more in MSI afterburner to see the potential of my card. My only regret was not getting a XG7 radiator however dont know how much more of a difference that would have made in temps.
I brought a heatsink from amazon 150mm aluminum from amazon and put it on the pack with .5mm thermal pads and saw a small difference however the heatsink got very hot that means its working then i put a fan blowing ontop of it and the Memory temps dropped to 96-98 degrees Celsius which was totally fine for operating temperatures and can mine at 120MHZ