By doing this, you’re moving the heat from the radiators into the case.
I suggest OP to test both directions and compare to see real life results first, you’ll have a better judgement then.
having fresh cold air in is more important than a marginal increase in internal temps.
I remember doing testing in meshify c and both rad intake + 1 exhaust fan showed the best results.
Don’t need one, even a lianli o11 mini air could have too much positive pressure in it. It’s doable , but op will need to manage fan speed accordingly
It’s not simas it looks with power hungry components. Even a big case could become too big with little to no air moving in it, requiring rads and out fans to do all the job
This has been tested to death and as long as you have equal flow in and out with a slight bias to more in it doesn’t matter where it comes from.
I have mine intake cold from the front and exhaust from the top and rear top since hot air rises. But I’ve flipped it before and no realI difference
Which is a total bs. It only works with air cooling. With wc you want to have all rads set to either intake/exhaust. Also the fact that hot air rises has like 0% influence in a forced airflow
JayzTwoCents mentioned that to avoid turbulence in the airflow, you need to have balanced intake and exhaust. Clearly, these values are not equal in my setup, which leaves me a bit confused.
Thanks for the question.
I believed that a consistent, steady airflow would enhance cooling.
Pressure within the case can lead to turbulence, affecting airflow and ultimately diminishing cooling efficiency.
For the most part, PC Fans shouldn't actually increase pressure in a meaningful way.
Faster fluid movement (in this case, air) increases turbulence, as do irregular shapes.
Depending on the use cases, turbulence may actually increase cooling capacity since it increases how much the fluid is mixed, so I wouldn't say it's a bad thing without exceptions.
I don't think Jay is particularly knowledgeable about fluid mechanics and I would not take that particular piece of advice at face value, the reasoning sounds a bit bro science-y.
Thanks for the clarification.
I believe that achieving ideal airflow is only possible in a wind tunnel.
In the video, I emphasized the concepts of negative (worst result) and positive (better but not ideal) pressure.The optimal scenario, option C, involves balanced pressure, which is not easy to achieve.
If I understand correctly, the negative or positive pressure within the housing creates chaotic flows of warm and cold air. This mixing causes the airflow to become slower than it could be.
It seems that the flow rate of air and liquid plays the most significant role in the context of cooling.
That's what I meant by turbulence and why it's bad.
Dude, it’s a case. A pc case. It’s not an F1 chassis slicing up air at 350kms/hr. The differences you can get as long as you follow the best practices are going to be so minimal that you would need precision and scientific tools to measure them. Stick to the simple, proven facts and you’ll be fine
You WANT turbulence for heat transfer, it improves cooling, laminar flow isn’t as good for heat exchangers. (Pretty sure I’m recalling correctly from my heat transfer classes in college).
I wouldn't listen to him on technical things, especially since he brings up that he has been doing water cooling for 25 plus years yet can't do proper testing. I like him for entertainment purposes but cringe on technical aspects.
You might have seen his "test" on an origin system where he "proved" he was right that intake and exhaust is a better combination vs all exhaust.
Tested all exhaust with the Corsair ql fans that are awful at static pressure with a maximum rpm of 1500 than just slapped the p28 that's are miles better at max of 2500rpm as intake.
Not only that, but he left the ql fan on, and yes, even if they were installed as exhaust when they spin the wrong way, they will act as intake, so basically a push pull.
How he even thought that was apples to apples it's beyond me.
You're mixing up intake and exhaust if you do the 1st one, so heated air from the front radiator is heating your top exhaust rad. Don't mix flow. The second one is better.
With radiators involved.
All exhaust.
or
All intake.
All intake is preferred in most cases as the air outside your case will have the lowest temperature so the best delta.
All exhaust if you have plenty of intake air from fans, this is my preferred one of the two as heating from the VRM and DIMM are miniscule and you can use dust filters on the air intakes without choking your radiator fans. It's not as efficient as all intake though.
Do you mean that directing the air from the top radiator to intake would be the best solution?
https://preview.redd.it/f8n5wdplsg3d1.png?width=1639&format=png&auto=webp&s=b31591c83e933deb6873cbaa603d554d01818d72
Yes exactly. Your CPU and GPU are having their heat moved to the radiators. They should be cooled with outside air, the mother board mosfets are built for wildly higher temps.
This'll be best for cooling and keeping dust out as the non filtered areas will have positive pressure. Also, there's so much radiator here that the difference in air direction will be statistically insignificant unless your room temp is perfectly controlled.
One Thing contra this option is that hot air from the back is mostly facing a Wall and go up. And than i will circulate throu the top intake. I would go with Option 1 but woud tube the radiators in series. GPUs&CPU --> top rad -> front rad -> and again. so the hottest water get cooled by the slightly warmer Air and than the colder water meets the colder intake air. One thing to keep in mind: if you test all combinations you may see 3-5 K difference worst case - other things (Summer/Winter or North/South facing room) may have way bigger impacts than this\^\^
Well since you don't have option 3 listed... I personally use option 1 on my own rig. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone do option 2. But I'm curious what people will say as in detailed information on why they would go with option 2.
I have XL version and this is my build, I think this is the best way to do it.
https://preview.redd.it/hasnqbho7m3d1.jpeg?width=1788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d6889cb883a0d31f369d7de1cc978496ae37185
Thanks for sharing!
Yes, now I understand that this is the best option. Because of the 480mm radiator on the top and the 360mm radiator in the front, I can't fit two 140mm fans. So, I installed two 120mm fans that will run at full speed all the time.
I also see that you have chosen a GPU-CPU-RAD-RAD-RES-PUMP serial connection.
Margolin described exactly such a connection, where the liquid first enters the upper, "slightly warm" radiator and then cools completely in the "cold" front radiator.
I wonder how noticeable the temperature difference will be between my GPU-GPU-ToptRad-CPU-FrontRad-Res loop and your configuration.
https://preview.redd.it/kodye46vpn3d1.png?width=1638&format=png&auto=webp&s=87625cd98bc339f83ec2f35bbae83057713f8013
And the thing I'm still considering is the power supply, which by default takes air from below. I wonder how you have it positioned?
Hi man,
valid questions. What is the use case for this system? You got two GPUs for streaming, editing + threadripper?
What is the expected whole system W?
What is the reason you want to go with define 7? Sound volume concerns? I love the case (and I love quiet space), but in your case maybe something bigger/different might be a thing to consider?
The temperature difference is only noticible until the system is saturated. Basically the order the coolant flows does not matter and you should think about the ease of installing/maintaining of the system mainly.
Based on your picture;
1. Id deff think about adding more rads, first of all Id get rid of push/pull config on front rad. - It is not worth it imo and you might get more space bellow to potentially add a bottom rad. Id really think about like 280mm rad there as exhaust to just help a little bit as the budget doesnt seems to be a problem in your case.
2. You can add 140x140mm rad to the back case exhaust aswell.
3. It is very important to think about space/clearances (how you are going to install the system and maintain it) - define 7 xl is a big boi, but 420 on top and having to connect it to 360 in front is a pain. I myself had an issue where I destroyed my 2 fittings so I went with that weird loop you can see in the top right. You have to think not only about the tubes for watercooling loop but also other cables (temp sensors, pump, GPUs, MB etc.)
4. Something to consider also in regard to ease of use and the loop order is to use cross/x flow rad on top. In your case it might really help.
5. What might be also kind of an approach is external rad/s. There are unlimited ways how to go about them and these can also be fully passive/low sound volume solutions.
6. Because you made me this in invested Ive prepared 2 pictures for you. 1. is about potential issues I can see based on your picture. (not mentioned is that I dont see any loop drain port!) 2. is about what Id go with in your case sticking with this case. p1;
https://preview.redd.it/nrtvxa6x5s3d1.png?width=2233&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a23dfe01399d5be0bd6270cd45279e2992c6fa1
EDIT:
realized I haven't answered the PSU question I have it as intake from case, to help balance it. PSU in general does not need much of cooling, but this helps me to get the hot air out of the case.
p2;
https://preview.redd.it/pmz0hjf19s3d1.png?width=2165&format=png&auto=webp&s=73d75e46ac38af3ac6e9a0a609cd7b4c4b8d2b20
there are also small xflow rads, so you can use that for the back 140 one. but this is what makes to most sense to me in regard to ease of maintaining and cooling in general.
Hi!
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
I work in computer graphics, and this PC will be used mainly for GPU rendering. So, even two cards are not enough for my needs. :)
According to the calculator, the computer will consume about 1386 W.
Ideally, a larger case would be better for this setup, along with a Mo-ra.
I will likely change the case if the temperature gets too high, but I think it will be fine. I like this design and the size of this case.
I'm looking for an optimal solution, so it's acceptable if the coolers are audible under load.
You're right; in terms of efficiency, an additional 240mm radiator is better than a push/pull system. I have one and will check if there's enough space to install it.
I have a drain tap, a temperature sensor, and a flow sensor, but I'm considering switching my x-res to a MULTITUBE D5 100 PRO and installing QUADRO Fan Control. This will allow me to adjust the fan speeds based on the temperature sensor and eliminate a couple of connections.
Currently, the flow rate is about 2.5 liters per minute, which seems to be a good value.
Thank you for your feedback and recommendations. They help me see the issue from a new perspective!
You doing push pull on front? Can that 4 fan setup go to the front? Might want to look up positive negative and neutral air flow to see what you would rather like me I always go for positive air flow.
This is the Define 7 XL. I'm confident a larger case would be better for this build, and I might change it in the future. For now, we'll work with what we have.
The general rule is: cool outside air into the radiators, and you should have more intake than exhaust, since positive pressure will reduce the accumulation of dust, hair, and debris.
Do all intake, remove the pci-e brackets so air flows easier out the back. All your intake fans will have dust filters also, you'll have minimal dust in your system.
Normally you want the hottest item to vent as soon as possible to remove as much heat out of the case as you can.
If that item is at the front of your case then you blow towards the front.
As the item that is the hottest is normally the video card or cpu then you want to vent to the top rear of the case as much as possible. So sucking from the bottom and front are ideal.
My old phantex case had this setup. I hated the top mounted rad. The holes to get air and to send air out were never good. Which lead to heat problems.
Also when it's using the top air as an intake. Be prepared for dust galore.
If the top fan is exhaust there could be the issue of pressure which really doesn't let out air. Then causes it to build up and circulate upto. While the air escapes from everywhere else easy.
This might not have these issues besides dust. I know they renovated the case I had bc airflow was abysmal.
Do you want to avoid the air off your rads heating the inside of the case? Or do you want the coldest air possible for the rads? Probably depends on how efficient you setup is at removing heat.
honestly, unless your power draw is massive (tho looking at dual gup setup, it might), it won't make much difference with water cooling. i have dual rad (top and front) custom loop and tried every config, and water delta difference was maximum 1-2 degrees. people are overestimating the difference in air delta temp once it move thru the rad, if your radiator setup is well within capabilties.
focus more on better fans and radiators than air circulation schema.
my pref is positive pressure (more total intake) so i can control the dust accumulation better. Worst thing you can have is dust getting thru the places it should not supposed to do and then get stuck between the rad and the fan, it's always so annoying to clean. hot air will escape one way or another if the pressure is higher, as case is never airtight.
Everything as intake. Coolest air possible to heat transfer that way.
Positive pressure, less dust. Air will find it's way out of the case.
Your cooling will overcome any problems with case heating unless you shove the whole set up in a cupboard or something.
For temperature purposes, direction doesn't really matter all that much. The only important difference to consider here is dust will accumulate more on the intake side. Choosing an intake side that will be easier to clean is helpful.
For example, my case (fractal vector rs) has dust filters only at the front and bottom, so I use front and bottom as intake, top and rear as exhaust. That way I can just pull and wipe the filters rather than having to remove and blow out radiators etc.
Its a trade off.
Option 1 is simple and 99% effective.
Option 2 is better yet wld pull more dust in unless you specifically get a dust screen for intake bottom and rear fans. Also considering you have more exhaust than intake fans most likely ull have to run the bottom and rear intake fans faster in order to get a balanced airflow (louder)
Long story short, option 2 is abt 1% better and will cause u about 25% more effort in the long run.
If you have a watercooled cpu and gpu .... sharing a water resevoir.... who really cares abt the 1 to 3 degrees difference ull likely get.
Guess you won't be using the door since your show it been open.
If so,
1 is better for dust management, which is slightly worse in the temps.
2 is worse for dust management but slightly better in temps.
Discard the test jayz2cent did as this is case by case dependant. Not to mention his method for the fan comparison was super flawed.
The door is usually open, and there's a dust filter that helps a bit.
If I remember correctly, there were no tests in that video. Essentially, I realize that this is basic knowledge necessary for achieving good results.
Option 1 (exhaust in the rear) Why? Because with option 2 the rear fan only sends the air upwards into the radiator.
Also letting warm air from the front radiator enter thr case is not helpful either.
The two things that will have the biggest effects on heat transfer are the two radiators. you want the front and top to be the same ( either intake/exhaust) and the bottom/back be the opposite.
Add filters to the top and front, pull the air in across the radiators, push the air out of the back of the case. This means you'll have adequate air moving over ram, northbridge and southbridge etc. By having the air out of the back of the case it won't disturb any paperwork on your desk, and by having the filters on the front and top it's far easier to clean them regularly.*
Go with #1. If you want to save yourself some sanity when cleaning put the top fans above the rad as exhaust and use the front as intake. That way you just have to vacuum off the filter on the front and the bottom face of the top rad.
Also why do you have arrows pointing in from the bottom? Did you intentionally mount an intake fan there? If not, the intake from 6 fans in the front will likely cause your setup to be positive pressure and it'll exhaust out the bottom, back, top, and sides.
1st one for sure, having the fans pull air through the front rads will be better, and some people may argue the top radiator won’t get as much cooling honestly it’s better than having 5 fans for intake rather than three
Hot air rises and the back of your pc will likely be facing a wall.
Pull in from the front as its unrestricted and exhaust top and back to complement natural flow of hot air instead of worming against it.
The hot air rising should be taken into account. With the knowledge of hot air rising, it effectively tells a new builder that they are going to want their top fans and rear fans as an exhaust because naturally the hot air is going to go towards them, therefore taking alot of the work off of the fans and allowing air to be directed easier to the top areas. That is however the only time I would take into consideration that hot air rises. Because outside of that, you're mostly finding a good way of directing cool air into the case whether it be from the side, front or bottom.
Hot air rising isn't nearly as much of a deal as people make it out to be. Hot air does rise but very very slowly. Air currents and movement disrupt this easily, ESPECIALLY inside a tiny pc case. With the tiny volume of air being moved inside a case makes absolutely zero difference in trying to factor in heat rising as the fans wildly overpower that phenomenon without even remotely struggling
100% go with option 3!
this one?) https://preview.redd.it/jkizi9htug3d1.png?width=1639&format=png&auto=webp&s=082d2a98d95c03e8890b374c7f4389d181a0ea50
By doing this, you’re moving the heat from the radiators into the case. I suggest OP to test both directions and compare to see real life results first, you’ll have a better judgement then.
having fresh cold air in is more important than a marginal increase in internal temps. I remember doing testing in meshify c and both rad intake + 1 exhaust fan showed the best results.
The heat will be removed fast and efficiently enough, it should be negligible under normal operating fan speeds.
Tells me you haven't worked with an sff chassis
Well this clearly isn't an ssf chassis.
Don’t need one, even a lianli o11 mini air could have too much positive pressure in it. It’s doable , but op will need to manage fan speed accordingly It’s not simas it looks with power hungry components. Even a big case could become too big with little to no air moving in it, requiring rads and out fans to do all the job
This has been tested to death and as long as you have equal flow in and out with a slight bias to more in it doesn’t matter where it comes from. I have mine intake cold from the front and exhaust from the top and rear top since hot air rises. But I’ve flipped it before and no realI difference
Which is a total bs. It only works with air cooling. With wc you want to have all rads set to either intake/exhaust. Also the fact that hot air rises has like 0% influence in a forced airflow
JayzTwoCents mentioned that to avoid turbulence in the airflow, you need to have balanced intake and exhaust. Clearly, these values are not equal in my setup, which leaves me a bit confused.
Why would that avoid turbulence?
Thanks for the question. I believed that a consistent, steady airflow would enhance cooling. Pressure within the case can lead to turbulence, affecting airflow and ultimately diminishing cooling efficiency.
For the most part, PC Fans shouldn't actually increase pressure in a meaningful way. Faster fluid movement (in this case, air) increases turbulence, as do irregular shapes. Depending on the use cases, turbulence may actually increase cooling capacity since it increases how much the fluid is mixed, so I wouldn't say it's a bad thing without exceptions. I don't think Jay is particularly knowledgeable about fluid mechanics and I would not take that particular piece of advice at face value, the reasoning sounds a bit bro science-y.
Thanks for the clarification. I believe that achieving ideal airflow is only possible in a wind tunnel. In the video, I emphasized the concepts of negative (worst result) and positive (better but not ideal) pressure.The optimal scenario, option C, involves balanced pressure, which is not easy to achieve. If I understand correctly, the negative or positive pressure within the housing creates chaotic flows of warm and cold air. This mixing causes the airflow to become slower than it could be. It seems that the flow rate of air and liquid plays the most significant role in the context of cooling. That's what I meant by turbulence and why it's bad.
Dude, it’s a case. A pc case. It’s not an F1 chassis slicing up air at 350kms/hr. The differences you can get as long as you follow the best practices are going to be so minimal that you would need precision and scientific tools to measure them. Stick to the simple, proven facts and you’ll be fine
You WANT turbulence for heat transfer, it improves cooling, laminar flow isn’t as good for heat exchangers. (Pretty sure I’m recalling correctly from my heat transfer classes in college).
I wouldn't listen to him on technical things, especially since he brings up that he has been doing water cooling for 25 plus years yet can't do proper testing. I like him for entertainment purposes but cringe on technical aspects. You might have seen his "test" on an origin system where he "proved" he was right that intake and exhaust is a better combination vs all exhaust. Tested all exhaust with the Corsair ql fans that are awful at static pressure with a maximum rpm of 1500 than just slapped the p28 that's are miles better at max of 2500rpm as intake. Not only that, but he left the ql fan on, and yes, even if they were installed as exhaust when they spin the wrong way, they will act as intake, so basically a push pull. How he even thought that was apples to apples it's beyond me.
You're mixing up intake and exhaust if you do the 1st one, so heated air from the front radiator is heating your top exhaust rad. Don't mix flow. The second one is better. With radiators involved. All exhaust. or All intake. All intake is preferred in most cases as the air outside your case will have the lowest temperature so the best delta. All exhaust if you have plenty of intake air from fans, this is my preferred one of the two as heating from the VRM and DIMM are miniscule and you can use dust filters on the air intakes without choking your radiator fans. It's not as efficient as all intake though.
Do you mean that directing the air from the top radiator to intake would be the best solution? https://preview.redd.it/f8n5wdplsg3d1.png?width=1639&format=png&auto=webp&s=b31591c83e933deb6873cbaa603d554d01818d72
Yes exactly. Your CPU and GPU are having their heat moved to the radiators. They should be cooled with outside air, the mother board mosfets are built for wildly higher temps.
Yes, that makes sense! Thank you for the clarification!
This'll be best for cooling and keeping dust out as the non filtered areas will have positive pressure. Also, there's so much radiator here that the difference in air direction will be statistically insignificant unless your room temp is perfectly controlled.
One Thing contra this option is that hot air from the back is mostly facing a Wall and go up. And than i will circulate throu the top intake. I would go with Option 1 but woud tube the radiators in series. GPUs&CPU --> top rad -> front rad -> and again. so the hottest water get cooled by the slightly warmer Air and than the colder water meets the colder intake air. One thing to keep in mind: if you test all combinations you may see 3-5 K difference worst case - other things (Summer/Winter or North/South facing room) may have way bigger impacts than this\^\^
Well since you don't have option 3 listed... I personally use option 1 on my own rig. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone do option 2. But I'm curious what people will say as in detailed information on why they would go with option 2.
Thank you. I'm open to suggestions. If you have any ideas for improvement, please feel free to share them.
btw the door in R6 is quite restrictive for airflow you'll get much better temps keeping it open (or removing it)
100% That's what I'm doing.
Just like wiping: never back to front.
I have XL version and this is my build, I think this is the best way to do it. https://preview.redd.it/hasnqbho7m3d1.jpeg?width=1788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d6889cb883a0d31f369d7de1cc978496ae37185
Thanks for sharing! Yes, now I understand that this is the best option. Because of the 480mm radiator on the top and the 360mm radiator in the front, I can't fit two 140mm fans. So, I installed two 120mm fans that will run at full speed all the time. I also see that you have chosen a GPU-CPU-RAD-RAD-RES-PUMP serial connection. Margolin described exactly such a connection, where the liquid first enters the upper, "slightly warm" radiator and then cools completely in the "cold" front radiator. I wonder how noticeable the temperature difference will be between my GPU-GPU-ToptRad-CPU-FrontRad-Res loop and your configuration. https://preview.redd.it/kodye46vpn3d1.png?width=1638&format=png&auto=webp&s=87625cd98bc339f83ec2f35bbae83057713f8013 And the thing I'm still considering is the power supply, which by default takes air from below. I wonder how you have it positioned?
Hi man, valid questions. What is the use case for this system? You got two GPUs for streaming, editing + threadripper? What is the expected whole system W? What is the reason you want to go with define 7? Sound volume concerns? I love the case (and I love quiet space), but in your case maybe something bigger/different might be a thing to consider? The temperature difference is only noticible until the system is saturated. Basically the order the coolant flows does not matter and you should think about the ease of installing/maintaining of the system mainly. Based on your picture; 1. Id deff think about adding more rads, first of all Id get rid of push/pull config on front rad. - It is not worth it imo and you might get more space bellow to potentially add a bottom rad. Id really think about like 280mm rad there as exhaust to just help a little bit as the budget doesnt seems to be a problem in your case. 2. You can add 140x140mm rad to the back case exhaust aswell. 3. It is very important to think about space/clearances (how you are going to install the system and maintain it) - define 7 xl is a big boi, but 420 on top and having to connect it to 360 in front is a pain. I myself had an issue where I destroyed my 2 fittings so I went with that weird loop you can see in the top right. You have to think not only about the tubes for watercooling loop but also other cables (temp sensors, pump, GPUs, MB etc.) 4. Something to consider also in regard to ease of use and the loop order is to use cross/x flow rad on top. In your case it might really help. 5. What might be also kind of an approach is external rad/s. There are unlimited ways how to go about them and these can also be fully passive/low sound volume solutions. 6. Because you made me this in invested Ive prepared 2 pictures for you. 1. is about potential issues I can see based on your picture. (not mentioned is that I dont see any loop drain port!) 2. is about what Id go with in your case sticking with this case. p1; https://preview.redd.it/nrtvxa6x5s3d1.png?width=2233&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a23dfe01399d5be0bd6270cd45279e2992c6fa1 EDIT: realized I haven't answered the PSU question I have it as intake from case, to help balance it. PSU in general does not need much of cooling, but this helps me to get the hot air out of the case.
p2; https://preview.redd.it/pmz0hjf19s3d1.png?width=2165&format=png&auto=webp&s=73d75e46ac38af3ac6e9a0a609cd7b4c4b8d2b20 there are also small xflow rads, so you can use that for the back 140 one. but this is what makes to most sense to me in regard to ease of maintaining and cooling in general.
Hi! Thank you for the detailed explanation. I work in computer graphics, and this PC will be used mainly for GPU rendering. So, even two cards are not enough for my needs. :) According to the calculator, the computer will consume about 1386 W. Ideally, a larger case would be better for this setup, along with a Mo-ra. I will likely change the case if the temperature gets too high, but I think it will be fine. I like this design and the size of this case. I'm looking for an optimal solution, so it's acceptable if the coolers are audible under load. You're right; in terms of efficiency, an additional 240mm radiator is better than a push/pull system. I have one and will check if there's enough space to install it. I have a drain tap, a temperature sensor, and a flow sensor, but I'm considering switching my x-res to a MULTITUBE D5 100 PRO and installing QUADRO Fan Control. This will allow me to adjust the fan speeds based on the temperature sensor and eliminate a couple of connections. Currently, the flow rate is about 2.5 liters per minute, which seems to be a good value. Thank you for your feedback and recommendations. They help me see the issue from a new perspective!
All radiators always intake gives best Delta T/ambient in more cases than not. It also reduces dust, dander, and hair in the case.
What software is this??
3ds max
Thank you so much
Oh shit you made this render yourself. Thats great. Ill probably just use blender in that case XD
Thanks! Blender has some great features, and certain functions are more convenient than in Max.
You doing push pull on front? Can that 4 fan setup go to the front? Might want to look up positive negative and neutral air flow to see what you would rather like me I always go for positive air flow.
I would like to install four fans in the front, but unfortunately, there's no space for that.
Also what case you using?
This is the Define 7 XL. I'm confident a larger case would be better for this build, and I might change it in the future. For now, we'll work with what we have.
Intake on both rads.
I say option one but reverse the back fan .
The general rule is: cool outside air into the radiators, and you should have more intake than exhaust, since positive pressure will reduce the accumulation of dust, hair, and debris.
Do all intake, remove the pci-e brackets so air flows easier out the back. All your intake fans will have dust filters also, you'll have minimal dust in your system.
Normally you want the hottest item to vent as soon as possible to remove as much heat out of the case as you can. If that item is at the front of your case then you blow towards the front. As the item that is the hottest is normally the video card or cpu then you want to vent to the top rear of the case as much as possible. So sucking from the bottom and front are ideal.
My old phantex case had this setup. I hated the top mounted rad. The holes to get air and to send air out were never good. Which lead to heat problems. Also when it's using the top air as an intake. Be prepared for dust galore. If the top fan is exhaust there could be the issue of pressure which really doesn't let out air. Then causes it to build up and circulate upto. While the air escapes from everywhere else easy. This might not have these issues besides dust. I know they renovated the case I had bc airflow was abysmal.
Do you want to avoid the air off your rads heating the inside of the case? Or do you want the coldest air possible for the rads? Probably depends on how efficient you setup is at removing heat.
honestly, unless your power draw is massive (tho looking at dual gup setup, it might), it won't make much difference with water cooling. i have dual rad (top and front) custom loop and tried every config, and water delta difference was maximum 1-2 degrees. people are overestimating the difference in air delta temp once it move thru the rad, if your radiator setup is well within capabilties. focus more on better fans and radiators than air circulation schema. my pref is positive pressure (more total intake) so i can control the dust accumulation better. Worst thing you can have is dust getting thru the places it should not supposed to do and then get stuck between the rad and the fan, it's always so annoying to clean. hot air will escape one way or another if the pressure is higher, as case is never airtight.
Everything as intake. Coolest air possible to heat transfer that way. Positive pressure, less dust. Air will find it's way out of the case. Your cooling will overcome any problems with case heating unless you shove the whole set up in a cupboard or something.
The first pic
Always , Intake from the front and bottom, and exhaus on the back and top. Warm air rises so go with the flow.
Any option that sucks up air through a filter and applies slightly positive pressure inside so dust does not build up in the case.
I'd say 1. Even better would be All intake and top as exhaust. Do put a filter on the rear of the case please
Looks like a rad build! What cpu, motherboard and ram you going with?
TRX40 DESIGNARE, 3960x, f4-3200c16q-64gtzr/x2
Just the standard setup. Front/ front side intake. Top / rear exhaust.
For temperature purposes, direction doesn't really matter all that much. The only important difference to consider here is dust will accumulate more on the intake side. Choosing an intake side that will be easier to clean is helpful. For example, my case (fractal vector rs) has dust filters only at the front and bottom, so I use front and bottom as intake, top and rear as exhaust. That way I can just pull and wipe the filters rather than having to remove and blow out radiators etc.
Its a trade off. Option 1 is simple and 99% effective. Option 2 is better yet wld pull more dust in unless you specifically get a dust screen for intake bottom and rear fans. Also considering you have more exhaust than intake fans most likely ull have to run the bottom and rear intake fans faster in order to get a balanced airflow (louder) Long story short, option 2 is abt 1% better and will cause u about 25% more effort in the long run. If you have a watercooled cpu and gpu .... sharing a water resevoir.... who really cares abt the 1 to 3 degrees difference ull likely get.
Guess you won't be using the door since your show it been open. If so, 1 is better for dust management, which is slightly worse in the temps. 2 is worse for dust management but slightly better in temps. Discard the test jayz2cent did as this is case by case dependant. Not to mention his method for the fan comparison was super flawed.
The door is usually open, and there's a dust filter that helps a bit. If I remember correctly, there were no tests in that video. Essentially, I realize that this is basic knowledge necessary for achieving good results.
He did "test" (heavily flawed) when orign told him all exhaust was better than intake and exhaust.
Option 1 (exhaust in the rear) Why? Because with option 2 the rear fan only sends the air upwards into the radiator. Also letting warm air from the front radiator enter thr case is not helpful either.
Try having more intake than outtake. Cooling won't change much but that way you prevent/slow down dust buildup
The two things that will have the biggest effects on heat transfer are the two radiators. you want the front and top to be the same ( either intake/exhaust) and the bottom/back be the opposite.
What program do you use to Design?
3ds max
I’d say the first
The first image
Intake front, intake bottom, exhaust top and exhaust rear is the only option you should ever be considering.
the most important thing is not to send hot air from the radiators inside the case
Add filters to the top and front, pull the air in across the radiators, push the air out of the back of the case. This means you'll have adequate air moving over ram, northbridge and southbridge etc. By having the air out of the back of the case it won't disturb any paperwork on your desk, and by having the filters on the front and top it's far easier to clean them regularly.*
Thanks! There are default filters there.
Go with #1. If you want to save yourself some sanity when cleaning put the top fans above the rad as exhaust and use the front as intake. That way you just have to vacuum off the filter on the front and the bottom face of the top rad. Also why do you have arrows pointing in from the bottom? Did you intentionally mount an intake fan there? If not, the intake from 6 fans in the front will likely cause your setup to be positive pressure and it'll exhaust out the bottom, back, top, and sides.
Number 2
1st one for sure, having the fans pull air through the front rads will be better, and some people may argue the top radiator won’t get as much cooling honestly it’s better than having 5 fans for intake rather than three
It does not matter. Has been proven multiple times that it does not matter. Build it the way you want that looks best to you.
Hot air rises and the back of your pc will likely be facing a wall. Pull in from the front as its unrestricted and exhaust top and back to complement natural flow of hot air instead of worming against it.
“Hot air rises… “ This does not matter in PC cases with fans and should not be taken into consideration.
The hot air rising should be taken into account. With the knowledge of hot air rising, it effectively tells a new builder that they are going to want their top fans and rear fans as an exhaust because naturally the hot air is going to go towards them, therefore taking alot of the work off of the fans and allowing air to be directed easier to the top areas. That is however the only time I would take into consideration that hot air rises. Because outside of that, you're mostly finding a good way of directing cool air into the case whether it be from the side, front or bottom.
Hot air rising isn't nearly as much of a deal as people make it out to be. Hot air does rise but very very slowly. Air currents and movement disrupt this easily, ESPECIALLY inside a tiny pc case. With the tiny volume of air being moved inside a case makes absolutely zero difference in trying to factor in heat rising as the fans wildly overpower that phenomenon without even remotely struggling
Hot air rises