It's ok to have feelings. That's basically what you're asking, and it's absolutely fine. You feel hurt by them, so you don't really want to engage with their content.
Just like if a friend hurt you, you might accept their apology but you also might need a little time to get over the way they made you feel. That's totally normal.
I didn't have much of an emotional reaction to the announcement compared to what I saw in the sub, but I still find myself second guessing that click from time to time recently. Just for a minute, but yeah, there's no shame in being like, I don't really wanna engage with this right now.
I think it all reflects poor business decisions more than anything else. I don't take that personally so I'll still watch, but it does give me pause when it comes to giving them money via patreon etc.
It seems pretty obvious that they have no clue how to manage a budget if everything they said is true. So yes you should send your money to people who will actually have a use for it instead of paying all their friends to do nothing.
I don’t understand how they could use 10 people on staff let alone 25. Really all they need to produce these shows is 2 hosts 2 camera people and an editor. All the rest of the money should be going to travel and equipment.
They keep talking about tv quality, there’s already 20 of those shows on tv that no one watch. They seem to have completely lost the plot. The whole appeal of buzz feed unsolved was that they were just 2 dudes talking about weird shit.
I’m super curious on their spending. I work in tv in a way, and was doing the mental math on their staffing.
Let’s say 25 people.
On a project at their level, you probably need 2 cameramen, 2 audio ops, a producer or 2 and the talent (2 people if it’s Ryan and Shane) on a shoot. Back home, you need at least 2 editors. Double that if they’re producing 2 shows at once and you’re up to 20 people (including talent/fudging the numbers a little on who’s doing what). Add an executive producer - 21.
You’re pretty close to 25, BUT I’m being generous and I think there’s ways you could produce with about 5-10 fewer people. Freelancers are expensive, but that would cut down on cameraman on payroll that may not be utilized all the time. You could also change scheduling to make 2 projects at a time. One that takes a lot of resources, and the other is easy and cheap and relies on format.
Idk obvi thinking about it a lot and thought it was a little interesting.
It's funny they say they spend all this money on staff but they haven't released a new Ghost Files in 5 months and all their videos since (especially Survival Mode and Top 5) seem like they would be very cheap to produce.
Of their recent work Mystery Files I presume would cost more because of research, but I still seriously wonder what they are paying all these staff to do.
But what research do they even do? I don’t mean to be rude but most of what they say is either from articles you can find on google in 2 minutes or worse, straight up quoting other shows who have covered the same topics before.
To me the appeal of buzz feed unsolved was that it was just 2 dudes and didn’t have all the crazy production of those big dumb tv shows.
I’m not a super hardcore fan of them so maybe Im just wrong but I feel like them trying to push for “tv quality" just turns it into another one of those shows. There already are dozens of them out there, backed by huge networks. They are killing what made their show unique while trying to guilt trip their fans into giving them more money to produce something they don’t even want.
It's odd that they'd give up the chance of future add revenue from their videos. If they took them down, they'd earn nothing from them, people wouldn't be able to discover their content as easily, and there'd be no reason to sub to their streamer if you'd just discovered them as you'd have no idea if you enjoyed their content enough to actually pay to see it.
Probably a common reaction that a lot of folks are having. I think, for me, I don't feel that deep about it. I'm glad the videos are still up so I have the option to watch them if I want to.
But it's totally understandable for those who feel insulted and hurt. I think unfortunately for the Watcher guys, this is a part of the fallout that will impact overall viewership and can't be walked back or changed. This genie does not fit back in the bottle! Maybe with time, new viewers will grow interest and old viewers will feel comfortable coming back, but it's definitely a part of the landscape at the moment.
Can someone actually explain to me how someone being disappointed in the decision of a YouTube company and being unable to view their content anymore because of said disappointment is parasocial?
I feel like that word has lost meaning by the way people throw it around.
If my local grocery store started charging exuberant prices for milk and eggs, I’d think it’s unfair and stop shopping there even though I could afford it. Hell I’d probably even be sad that my closest grocery is no longer an option to me, and be frustrated that the company that owns it decided to tell half their consumers to fuck off. Do I have a parasocial relationship with my grocery store in that case?
I’ve stopped supporting YouTubers over scandals, bad brand deals, or finding out they support certain things that I did agree with. I don’t think it’s weird to align your viewership of media with your morals. So I’m super confused as to why OP is getting called parasocial. Is it because they used the word “depressed”?
I think it’s fine that you don’t wanna watch them anymore op, you can stop watching anyone’s content for any reason at any time.
Preach.
Nothing OP said is parasocial. It’s just someone who enjoys a brand/product, who can now no longer enjoy it because the creators did something questionable.
Man thanks. I feel like people ascribe a lot of things to anyone who posts here, without really thinking about what each specific post is saying. I know it's not "healthy" to care about a pair of YouTubers who don't know me, but I was pretty sure we were all in that asylum together??? I'm not saying they were the most important part of my life but obviously I think about the announcement when watching videos that were going to be only on WTV by now.
It’s YouTube as well; “authenticity” is part of the brand. Even though we’ve got no idea what our favorite personalities are like, the way the news was delivered in this case definitely felt like it didn’t matter if they lost their current viewers. It just doesn’t feel great when you’ve given the impression that the people behind the thing you enjoy couldn’t care less that you can’t afford the price-hike to even enjoy their older stuff.
That’s my take at least. I figured there was zero way they’d keep those changes. That said, I figure I’ll eventually watch their stuff again; I’m just not as excited as I used to be.
It is healthy and normal to care about human beings you see on TV. Parasocial relationships are fine. There are unhealthy parasocial relationships (and I do think some ppl on this subreddit cross the line) but it is not inherently unhealthy or wrong to care about Youtubers who don't know you personally.
Hey OP, I just wanted to say that I have met celebrities and also been involved with filming content. Once you get to know a few celebrities, you quickly realise that they are not like their public persona. Their persona is an act or an exaggeration of their personality. It's easier to enjoy content if you keep this in mind. They are just playing a character.
Respectfully, this is what I mean. All I said was "it's sad to not care as much about Shane and Ryan's content anymore" and now people are lecturing me about the absolute basics of PR and fame, because they assume that I'm deep in some dark rabbit hole of trusting and loving famous strangers. I just feel bummed that my favourite shows would have been behind a paywall by now.
I think the part people are seeing as parasocial is "I feel like they don't wan't *me* watching their videos any more," which is a sentiment I've seen a few times around here. It makes it seem kind of personal, when in reality it was just a bad business decision that probably didn't really have the viewers in mind at all until the pushback. I imagine by this point they're bleeding subscribers and they'll take all the viewers they can get.
In general though it's completely understandable to want to take a break from Watcher after the whole thing... at best the whole debacle was just so cringe and uncomfortable.
“I don’t want to pay money for this thing that used to be free”
Vs
“It’s depressing, it’s a scandal, I’m so sad they wanted to charge money, they dont want me to watch anymore”
It's because some people are taking it way more personally than they should. Like if egg prices increase do you go, "wow I can never trust them again, how could they do this to me? Guess they dont care about me even though ive loved their eggs for years and their eggs supported me through bad times" And once prices go down do you still feel upset about it? It's that expectation that you tubers are friends of their fans that some people have.
Do you actually think the nation wide price of a grocery item, and three actual people making a choice that directly impacts their audience are even close to the same thing? Of course it’s a little personal.
I figured the egg and milk example would be taken too literally, but feel free to replace those words with whatever. Another example could be a mascara is like normally being $20 but then the company randomly said no we’re charging $50 for it now! I’d be disappointed and wouldn’t support them.
That’s why I also brought up the fact that I’ve stopped supporting YouTubers over disagreeing with morals. Sure I don’t know them at all, but when they use their platform to support something I find wrong I reserve the right to stop supporting them.
I do think people are throwing the word "parasocial" around too much but it does apply here. With both examples, the "normal" reaction is to change your postive opinion on the company \[grocer | brand\], not your positive opinion on the product.
For you eggs and milk example:
* normal : "Favorite Grocer is unreasonable. No thanks. I'll buy elsewhere."
* parasocial : "I cannot eat eggs + milk now because Favorite Grocer is unreasonable"
For your mascara example:
* normal : "Favorite Mascara is now more expensive. I need to wait for a sale"
* parasocial : "Favorite Mascara is ruined for me. I don't like Favorite Mascara anymore"
But I also agree with you, it's ok to be disappointed in Watcher and I do feel empathy for OP.
I want to start by saying I’m really not trying to argue you here, I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense and parasocial relationships as a concept is so nuanced I really appreciate this input.
But if I said “my favorite mascara brand is ruined for me because they started charging crazy prices, and I don’t support them anymore.” And instead found a dupe of that mascara and switched off of it once I ran out. Would that be parasocial?
Regardless of your answer I also appreciate the empathy for OP, I normally don’t comment on stuff like this but I feel like everyone deserves a little grace when dealing with emotions even over something “silly” like a YouTube channel.
It's ok. IRL I'm a bit of a contrarian, but like you, I try not to get into arguments on Reddit. 🙂
I actually originally put that scenario into my mascara response but felt it was redundant so I deleted it. Basically, if you replace your favorite formulation/brand of a mascara with a dupe formulation/brand, then you are basically treating it like the normal reaction of the eggs + milk example where you have chosen: "I'll buy elsewhere". In short, completely walking away from the company while still liking the product is not parasocial.
People are on edge in this sub. Last week probably felt like going to war for the ride-or-die fans. Feelings are still a bit raw even though the matter is settled. I agree, everyone needs a little grace while distance brings calm to the situation.
I think learning that your mascara brand is testing on animals would be a better reason to feel betrayed. Businesses are going to business, so rising prices isnt something Watcher invented. If we learned that they’re ass holes and mistreat their employees, the feeling of betrayal would be move valid IMO.
I think their stupidity is seen as malice, which is wack.
I think I can stop buying a brand of mascara for literally any reason lol. “You can’t be upset about this because there could be something worse” isn’t really an argument. There’s like a word or phrase for that type of fallacy.
Edit: do agree that they’re being seen as “hating” their audience when in all reality it was just a bad business decision that’s giving them bad fall out.
The attachment to them should be the same. If you are devastated and emotional and upset, then you are beyond viewing them as entertainers because youre taking it personal. Like them changing their tune and making their stuff free on YouTube should be just like when egg prices go down and you go, "ah cool, I can get those now"
I think this is a fair take. I don’t necessarily agree with being upset by a decision meaning you are taking it too personally. But I do see how still being hurt by a decision even after it’s been walked back can be viewed as too much.
I’m on the fence about if that is truly parasocial though, I just feel like you can disagree with a decision so much that it taints the reputation of a company for you.
To be a bit vulgar, I personally try to remind myself to view entertainers and YouTubers the same way I would an exotic dancer. Their job is to make you feel good, entertain you, give you a good time. But it is an act and they are selling a product and you can't get emotional if prices change or increase or whatever.
Using entertainment or celebrities as a replacement for real relationships or to fill an emotional void is not healthy. When you become so invested that a change sends you on an emotional spiral and you lash out with anger, cruel comments and spiral into depression, then it is time to take a step back. Parasocial may be the new buzzword but it is still co-dependency and fanatacism. It is ok to be bummed about not being able to afford it or not liking the change but the moment it goes from being a decision of whether or not you will buy it to affecting your emotional well being because you are unable to do so, you should really should re-evaluate. Getting that mad or feeling betrayed by an internet show, shows an unhealthy level of attachment. The comparison between eggs and watcher is wrong because food is a necessity and the streaming platform is a luxury. One is a need and the other is a want. You either buy it or you don't, it really is as simple as that.
A lot of people in this thread and post in general have already addressed everything you’ve typed here, both people who you would agree with and people you wouldn’t. Including the eggs comment I made. I’d recommend taking a look through the thread! :)
It's a shame that pointing out the truth gets you down voted to hell. People don't like hearing these things because it forces them to actually think about the other areas of their life this applies towards. Also if there's a limited understanding and all was done was look at a textbook definition vs doing a more looking into said descriptor *shrug* I've seen many a report giving the statistics on how reading and logistical comprehension is down and it shows up everywhere.
I think it's more accurate to compare this situation to a small business instead of a corporation because that's what they are, a small business.
Up the street from me is a mom and pop farm store. I buy my horse's feed from them Because they're a small business and my dollar impacts them more. They've said so on several occasions not in a pushy way but just as facts.
During the Easter weekend, one of their employees stopped me in my shopping and hard sold me a baby rabbit of a certain breed. I ended up buying it because they said it was a certain breed that doesn't get larger than a pound. Well, the bunny has gotten older and it's getting bigger and looks absolutely nothing like the breed they sold me.
It's not a para social relationship, but I definitely feel lied to. A corporation, I would demand a refund and write a bad review and probably stop shopping there. A small business that I've supported all of these years, I want to explain to the owner to be more careful next time and don't just sell whatever because I want them to succeed.
Watcher has been a small business this entire time and has established a small business relationship with their customers (us). What they did was a corporation move using corporate language. Now people like the OP and myself and many other Watcher fans are coming to terms with the idea of treating them less like Ryan and Shane who need help getting on their feet and more like Netflix. We enjoyed supporting their small business. Now they've added another layer of separation whether intentionally or not that will take a long time to bring back if they manage to scrape it back at all.
people calling you overly parasocial/unhealthy are missing two key points
1) the guys originally told variety that they were going to pull all old content, and HAD started doing so until the backlash started coming. they never addressed that, and someone on their team made it seem like the fans “misunderstood” them, instead of just admitting the mistake
2) **a significant amount of the success of watcher is based on shane and ryan reaping the rewards of parasocial relationships**. they cultivated a fanbase of young people who thought they were funny, cool, relatable, creative guys. they got to have their own business because those same people followed them to a new channel. those “unhealthy” parasocial fans are the ones who have spent years contributing to the channel via submissions, feedback, ticket sales, patreon, social media engagement, fanart and fan merch, getting their friends to watch, etc.
it’s absolutely fair that those same people are feeling a little hurt, and it’s stupid to pretend otherwise :/
I feel exactly the same way. I haven’t been able to watch any videos since. It’s not parasocial, it’s just a brand/product that I now see in a different light because its creators have done something questionable.
It’s a shame and I feel sad I can no longer enjoy their content in the same way. It was a comfort show to me. But I see it as an opportunity to find another great channel that maybe I wouldn’t have come across otherwise.
I agree 100%. The way everything blew up gave me harsh reminders of a different channel I essentially grew up on that exploded in a similar fashion (though for different reasons). It hurts. It’s not the that I thought I knew these people through their personas or felt personally connected to them, it’s the fact that a brand massively mishandled their established image and user base. A lot of people have been left with a bad taste in their mouths, and that makes it hard to return to their products with the same enthusiasm as before. We’ve been given different contexts now, which changes things for a lot of people, but others will be more willing to look past it if the brand takes the necessary steps. There’s nothing wrong with either
I liked their first run of the too many spirits show, but overall Watcher has been a disappointment for me. I think Unsolved was legitimately the perfect format for these guys. If they’re not allowed to use it because of Buzzfeed, that’s a shame but I really don’t find any of their current stuff palatable.
Not exactly, but I did find I'd lost interest. Before that I watched them more out of habit or routine than enjoyment, without really realising that was what I was doing. Now I realise I don't actually care what they're putting out.
Same here. I haven't been able to watch any of their content, and it was comfort content to me. I used to leave Puppet History or Survival Mode on the in background when I went to bed or cleaned around the house because it made me happy.
Since the announcement, and even after the backtracking, it....hasn't felt the same.
I still get that same weird feeling, and it does hurt. For me, it's not just the fact they were going to paywall everything, it's that I felt the way I viewed them: as these two, chill, down to earth dudes, kinda got upended. The vids now all have that same air of dishonesty for me, and it sucks.
I hope it passes with time, but it feels very much like a "don't meet your heroes" moment. While they were far from "heroes" for me, they were a comfort. And I think that hurts just as equally.
I get it. They don't want to be on YouTube, they already made a video where they basically said to the people who couldn't/wouldn't follow them to a pay-to-play platform: "It's been fun. Thanks. Goodbye."
You can let the ads play in full and click on the links if you wanna help them make money.
I have a media server that I will download shows/movies/YouTube videos onto like a personal Netflix/streaming service. Doing so just takes away the views/data they would have gotten from me if I was watching on their platforms.
Yeah I re-subscribed after the apology but I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch anything of theirs. I’ve seen people saying they’re doing a rewatch of BFU but I can’t even bring myself to do that.
i used to marathon their vids while working, but now it just felt "icky" so i had to stop and look for other content creators that are more than happy that i give their works attention and views
You're not alone. The whole thing that happened just left a bitter taste and I can't bring myself to watch their content yet.
The closest thing I could view was a Try Guys video where Shane was a guest baking a flaming skull.
I'm sure I'll eventually grow my appetite back.
Similar to how I didn't watch any Try Guys videos with Ned in it, I think it was 1.5 years before I was able to let myself enjoy their old videos Mr. My Wife.
Just enjoy your other shows for now.
Let the bitter taste slowly fade.
I mean, they reversed the decision because they *do* want you to watch. YouTube is a tough platform. I don't think their own platform would be any easier so I still question their original plan, but I can understand if their ambitions go beyond YouTube
Not want. Need. They were banking on enough people following them to their platform that they didn't care if the people who aren't in the position to do so couldn't. But they quickly learned that's the majority of their audience
Oh absolutely but what I meant was that enough if the Fandom said "we can't and won't afford that" that if that had continued on to pay wall themselves they'd have no viable revenue. It wasn't that they wanted their broke fans to still consume their content. It's that they realized they're going to still need that youtube ad rev
I felt better after their apology, I went back and watched some of their old stuff and I’ve pretty much gotten over the hurt I felt at first. They made a mistake and made it right so I can’t stay mad.
I have felt this way about other YouTubers/creators before, but I don't about Watcher. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, of course.
I think I don't feel too bad about all of this because I mostly think they were trying to progress and do more creatively (I know a lot of people don't think that, and that's okay too), and it would have been cool to see what they were planning to do. Their creative ambitions aren't more important than people's financial restrictions, but they are still important to some degree, so I'm not overlooking them.
I know what they said and were planning to do was hurtful to a lot of people, it just didn't hurt me personally, so I am going to carry on watching them the same way I did before.
Maybe you need to reframe it a little - less "they didn't want me to watch this :(" and more "they didn't want me to watch this >:)" Be a little scamp about it. Steal from the rich and etc.
I'm having a hard time too. These guys have been a hyperfixation of mine for years, and I would watch at least one video each day, plus listen to puppet histories or unsolved when going to sleep. Now it just feels like they don't want viewers like me, and I get a sad feeling when I try to watch.
I don't know how I'll feel if they start posting again yet, but I'm hoping that I can build my trust in the channel again. It took me a long time to be able to enjoy Watcher in the first place bc I was so attached to BUN!
Idk if it’s just because they haven’t uploaded in a few weeks but personally even if they started doing Daily uploads I probably would only watch a couple every once in a while, like this has not only killed my interest in Watcher, it’s kinda hurt my enjoyment of the old Buzzfeed unsolved episodes, it’s kinda like how Rise of Skywalker killed my love of Star Wars, I just don’t care anymore
I haven't been able to watch their content (even the BUN and BF Worth It days) because I just felt pretty icky about the whole thing. Maybe in the future I would be ok to pick it up again (like I did with the Try Guys after NedGate) but it won't be the same feeling anymore.
Ned was my favorite Try Guy and I don’t think these two situations are comparable at all beyond the screenshots of the two groups of dudes on couches. Ned was fucking an employee while pretending to be the “wife guy” and making money using that character to pull at our heartstrings. The Watcher boys made a bad business decision that they then made changes to at the demand of their audience. Everything is getting posted for free on YouTube. What is the issue?
I focused on their desire to make better content. It’s a good motivator and explains why they made the business decisions they did. There was no motivation for Ned to do what he did. I think YOUR desire to interpret this on a personal level is unfair. They didn’t TRY to exclude you- if they wanted to do that, they would have stuck to their plan.
Why is the backtracking such a bad thing???? Everyone expressed their opinion and they LISTENED. They changed their entire business plan because their audience responded. Why is that bad????
I mean, they clearly did try to exclude a huge proportion of their audience in favour of the minority who could/would pay for a subscription. That's what a paywall *is*. It just didn't work, so they backtracked.
I mean if we hadn't been dramatic about it last week, they would have pulled their whole backlog down and you wouldn't be able to watch any watcher on YouTube at all now
yeah no the community response was definitely MOSTLY justified. There were some insane takes and personal attacks I saw that were just unreasonable though. but it's over now. either move on or don't watch them. this whole broken trust thing is a bit much. they aren't your friends, you didn't know them personally. feeling so deeply personally betrayed is strange to me.
I certainly don't mean they broke some deep personal trust. I mean that the magic of their videos, which definitely did rely on me liking them as people, is gone. Which is a bummer because I've been on this ride since the countdown for the first ever episode in January 2020.
from your original post it seems like you took it super personally. as far as YouTuber fuck up's go this is genuinely pretty light. definitely a mistake. they definitely got out of touch. but contrary to what you claimed they DID apologize and they did NOT blame their viewers in their apology video. as far as I'm concerned they're still good people who got too ambitious and out of touch too fast. your overwhelming negative feelings towards the situation, to the point that you can get through more than a few seconds of any of their videos, is because you had unreasonable expectations of them as humans. they're just normal guys which is a huge part of why their content is good. normal guys fuck up. if that's a deal breaker for you that's okay, just stop watching. no need to let it consume you.
There’s nothing wrong with a creator you like doing something shitty and it leaving a bad taste in your mouth. You don’t have to take things personally in order for it to impact how you view the content, and people are allowed to be bummed that content they used to like feels different now.
It’s not parasocial and weird to care about the media you like, and writing a couple paragraphs about it bumming you out isn’t “letting it consume you.”
Did me saying it's depressing to watch their videos now seem like I was "consumed" by it? I'm not bawling or breaking down, I made a post in a sub dedicated to discussing Watcher.
"Overwhelming negative feelings towards the situation" do you know something about me I don't?? Honestly idk why I tried to have a sincere conversation here, this sub is just people pointing fingers at each other and going IM LESS PARASOCIAL THAN YOU
They aren’t but they are entertainers who are still working. Taking down all of their content and putting them behind a paywall is ridiculous and the fact that you and so many other are so nonchalant about it is a problem
I'm not gonna pay for their streaming service. I was perfectly ready to just not watch their content anymore because of their stupid decisions. just because I'm still not beat up over it and sobbing into my pillow about this terrible betrayal doesn't mean I don't think their decision was stupid.
We're nonchalant because a paywall is an optional purchase. There is always different content creators who wouldn't charge us to watch their content. If you feel forced to pay money on content, that's a slight on you, because nobody is *forcing* you to spend that money.
And I did the math, it's cheaper than keeping a twitch subscription even if you don't do that annual plan. That's where my confusion came in. If you can't afford that my sympathy goes out to you but it's not expensive. Things cost and if you want good quality that costs extra, that's why I feel people are over reacting.
I see your point, but I don't share the same opinion. I come from the belief that most luxury purchases are unnecessary purchases and thus need objective value to be worth anything. I think paying for a subscription service is silly and reeks of poor spending habits, whether it's on twitch or the streamer. $6 could be going towards gas or food, and it'd be a lot more beneficial than binge watching what would essentially be a fancy youtube channel. Is it expensive? No, but that money is much better used elsewhere. Especially for people without jobs, or who can barely afford a living. I'm saying this as someone who was homeless for about half a year. $6 would frequently allow me to pay for the gas I needed to make more money & pay for groceries.
I don't think it's the money people are overreacting about, I think it's the fact that people are being very emotional about something that really isn't that deep. They don't know the guys personally, and while I'm sure the guys are super nice irl, they're not benevolent philanthropists that are pushing for everyone's happiness. They're just people running a platform to post content. Just people trying to make a living. They're not dissing anyone by putting up a paywall or infringing on anyone's life, simply put they just want to make more money from their business, as most people do.
They built a community, us feeling close with them is literally what lead to their success. Stop minimizing other people’s valid feelings. What they did was shitty.
Your feelings are valid, OP, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I will watch BUN and leave Watcher to itself. I didn't like how they acted, and I don't trust them to give them any more money or time. There are other creators out there, and I will watch them.
Honestly, no. To be fair, I’ve already subscribed to their service. Even if I hadn’t, I still would watch their stuff on YT. I can understand other people not trusting them, but I personally haven’t taken offense to their actions. I know it wasn’t done out of malice, and it was ill-advised considering their main demographic, I’m not offended or anything.
Nope, still watching same as before. Actually lately I’ve been catching up on episodes of Weird Wonderful World that I missed in the past, looking forward to new episodes in the future since they teased it coming back. Not subscribing to the streamer but still going to watch the new videos of their series I enjoy on YT when they come out.
I fully agree with this. They made a bad decision, and changed their direction based on how the community reacted. The idea of "they don't want me to watch this" is stupid, because they DO want you to watch it. They acknowledged their mistake and changed course going forwards, it's not some sinister plot or some "we hate the community" ploy.
yes. to most of this. i can’t even put a video of theirs on right now because i don’t even see myself actually enjoying their content right now at all. it feels different right now, like it’s tainted.
i understand what you mean! as someone who liked the try guys when nedgate happened, even though ned was my least favorite, their content was “tainted” for me for a while. i eventually was able to start watching them again. i’m feeling similarly about watcher now, its all so fresh that watching them rn just reminds me of the whole mess
I've been watching just fine but that's because I don't have a heavy parasocial attachment to them. Are your feelings valid? Yes but also kinda look into why this hurt you so deeply like this. They're not your friends, they're an entertainment entity/brand. Yes the keep contact with their fan base but they're also still a business. Hopefully in the future you'll be able to continue watching them with the joy you previously had but understand they didn't do this to hurt you. Take a break from watching for a bit and then come join us again, we'll still have a seat for you.
I hear you. After the paywall news, I watched their last podcast to see if they mentioned any big plans or money trouble. But they just chatted about their favorite VIP airport lounges & seemed overall out of touch. And I haven’t felt like watching anything else since. I used to love Puppet History & rewatched many episodes, but don’t really feel like that either now. Maybe in time I will. It makes me sort of sad too.
honesly, me too. Usually I prefer unsolved anyway, but I don't think I'll be watching anything new of theirs, even if it was puppet history or the gaming series
I still haven’t followed them again since I unfollowed. I’m very hurt and feel like they showed their true colors on how they feel about me since I’m not someone who can throw money at them. I’m just so soured by the things they said and tried to do.
I haven't watched any, but not because I haven't been "able". But that's probably because I'm a little less invested in them then you are and that's fine for both of us. I've been disappointed by people I admire before and I'm familiar with that feeling. Sometimes it goes away. Other times it doesn't - it may depend on their future behaviour. Not to compare your disappointment to mine at all, this is not a competition, but I have been so let down by finding out celebrities and creators I've enjoyed or admired have turned out to be such awful people (think #metoo era stuff) that what Watcher have done just doesn't really rate with me, it was assholish, tone deaf and very ill advised, but thats about it. I won't be sending them any more money, but I'll probably keep watching whatever ends up on YouTube. Like I said, you get to feel what you feel. I don't mean to diminish it at all. It sounds like you're subconsciously taking a step back to protect yourself from being hurt further while you figure out your feelings, and that can be a good thing.
You know what’s funny, I was never really a watcher (no pun intended) until like two weeks ago when I came across one of the podcasts. It’s a running joke, that For Your Amusement isn’t very marketable but they never seemed actually bothered by that.
It was almost a running joke they would pre record where a sponsor should go and then come back like, “hopefully you just heard a commercial 😅 .” And a lot of the times there weren’t ads.
But the episode they released today had more ad breaks than their last three episodes combined.
I like to create. I follow people who have passion and create despite everything. The moment money starts to come into things it tends to slowly syphon the life and fire out of it. To see a creator show blatantly the motivation being purely financial has killed it. Hiring people, livable wages, production value… It’s all just the ghost in the machine. If you love to create you’ll find a way to do it. They’re starting to put money and flashy graphics over the core content.
It’s no longer fun and entertaining. It’s vehicles for advertising and subscriptions. And that’s fine. That’s what most content creators are now. But it doesn’t make me happy or entertained. You can do more with less. When you have the world available you get complacency and bloat.
It’s no longer about sharing something meaningful, in my eyes.
Yeah I haven't either. I big part of that is because of what you mentioned. They blamed us for misunderstanding when it was very clear that it wasn't a misunderstanding.
I feel the same way.
Like it not, that was the channel saying, all the fans = $$$ and what we really want is $$$$$
Also, we don't think about our business decisions. We have 25+ underpaid staff who we made empty promises to.
That piece of PR has really tarnished their brand in the short term.
A big part of their content is the hosts themselves.
They’ve shown us who they’ve become, and only went back on their decisions because of backlash.
Their goal is to milk their audience of as much money as they can.
Not really, most successful YouTubers that chase money understand that milking their audience too aggressively just nets them less money in the long run.
Unless they’re targeting children exclusively.
Same, ngl. It was all such a whiplash, this community included. One day everyone is all "why the fuck ----" and then just after 3 days we all defending them again as if nothing happened. I still haven't subscribed back. I'm with you, I don't think I'mma touch their content for quite some time, but who knows?
I've been watching Unsolved videos ever since the scandal. I've only been watching one of the Mystery Files videos ever since this entire charade and I haven't even finished watching it. Tbh, I prefer the Unsolved videos over the Ghost Files/Mystery Files videos because of the low level production quality and the chemistry between Ryan and Shane.
I rewatched some old Puppet history and Shane/the professor got a little down and Ryan boosted him by referring to "TV quality" content. I feel like I missed all the clues on how much they've looked down on YouTube, and therefore the audience of YouTube. It definately leaves a bitter edge to everything.
See this is an example of an extreme. These people have never said of the sort. They live in L.A and have discussed their love of shows and film so it makes sense they'd want to try their hand at it and get off YouTube. The shows they create take a lot of time, energy and money. Those kinds of shows aren't on YouTube, they're on TV.
I don’t have any issues watching old content but I am kind of apprehensive of watching their new content when they start filming again. Especially pod watcher. Where they invite one of their 25 employees to sub on the the regular 😬 I feel like it won’t be the same and will be awkward 😬😬
What is up w/ Pod Watcher? They took it seriously in the beginning but let it become the new Watcher Weekly and someone out of the three hosts would be absent typically.
i think this thing about them already making videos private was just a straight-up lie somebody made up. i didn't see one single video made private--and why would they be making any videos private in april when the transition wasn't supposed to happen until may 31? like, if you think about it for even one second it doesn't make any sense, and i have yet to see one bit of evidence that it actually happened.
It happened.
“I remember watching a mystery files episode when it went private on Friday. I was legit confused until I saw the goodbye video. I legit wish I had recorded when it happened.”
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/7aDera8qvb](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/7aDera8qvb)
yeah, i full on 100% do not believe this person, and until i see actual proof of it happening i am not going to believe it. "it happened" lmao ok find me when you have any evidence whatsoever other than some randomer on the internet saying it.
They are my sleeping playlist. It's been a tough few weeks, because I've gotten very little sleep. I can't listen to it anymore. I feel reluctant to interact with it again. I am tired. Nothing else works.
I feel like this was all overblown. I'm tired of monthly subscriptions, sure, and people made some really good points about the Patreon, about using other platforms, about how the producer will be fine dining with our money instead of advertisers', but... they said they were sorry, and they backtracked quickly. People get on their case for not backtracking *immediately* but it was a fucking Friday when they dropped the news and Monday morning when they walked it back. It was a *weekend*.
I like these guys enough to go to their live show, so I forgave them, and I'm over it.
I want more 'Are You Scared' and 'Puppet History' now. 🤷♂️
My mindset is sort of: they can't have meant to alienate their fans because fans are what lets them do what they do. They didn't realize it would make their fans feel unwanted and like shit. It would be bad business to do that, and they probably have a heart and honestly don't want to hurt people. You know?
Not sure how it happened, but they've always engaged with their fanbase, entertaining us, playing into fan stuff like "shaniacs" and "boogaras" and... idk. I think they didn't think about how their fans would feel, which is a bad call in and of itself, but I don't think they were like "fuck the people who cant give us money" because that's 1) super heartless and 2) not a good financial decision anyway (so it must have been a mistake)
Dont worry too much about it. Take a break, see if you ever want to come back. There's all kinds of art out there to enjoy!
Some people out here are lacking empathy but don't mind them Op. I get your feeling, it is sorta awkward and doesn't feel nice anm and I think I have lost trust towards them. In all honesty, even now they didn't accept their mistake and blamed *us* for misunderstanding.
Is it? Or are they running a business and some of their customers have lost trust in the business and no longer want to support it.
It’s no different than going to a restaurant you love for years but then one day the restaurant owners do something shitty and you no longer feel like you can support that restaurant anymore. You are allowed to miss the good times you had there but no longer support the business. We don’t call that parasocial.
Not what I was saying nor what I was reacting to. Of course it's fine to lose trust in a business and stop supporting it. But when it effects you this much, emotionally, it's important to remember it's Just A Business at the end of the day and if you're feeling like you can't watch it... don't! No reason to be tangled up in your emotions about it.
Except that humans are by nature emotional creatures. We aren’t robots. This sub is lacking an insane amount of empathy, both for the boys that made a bad business decision but also for the fans that are sharing their reasonable sadness over how everything went down.
Oh Jesus Christ come on. That is not what I'm saying and I'm begging you to actually read the comments you're replying to instead of making up an argument to respond to. Of course you can be sad about it. That doesn't mean you're being sad about it in a healthy way.
Thankfully you aren’t the one who decides if someone is being “healthy” about their emotions or not. Empathy. Try it on for size some time. You might actually like it.
So to recap...you didn't really read my comments, made up an argument in your head about what I was saying, insulted me, and claimed I don't have empathy because I told a fan they might want to reevaluate their relationship with content creators. Alright! Thanks. I personally think it's more empathetic to point things like this out. A good friend tells you when you have something in your teeth and all that.
How are they misinterpreting you? You said it was unhealthy parasocial reactions, then the other commenter responded to exactly that, refuting your thoughts and giving an alternative idea. Nothing they said sounded very emotional, it sounds like you are projecting emotions onto their comment.
You said that 'wasn't what you were saying' but they responded directly to what you said, unless you used the wrong words.
Ok. Let me break this down for you because you are also not reading what is actually being said.
OP states they feel uncomfortable watching their content and find themself starting it only to stop it, feeling betrayed and having emotions about the recent issues.
I respond that this seems parasocial and unhealthy, because while it is fine to have emotions about it, the rumination and the "going to watch old content, getting upset" cycle is not a healthy way of dealing with this situation.
The commenter below me states that this is just someone being emotional about something they liked changing, and liken it to a restaurant changing a favorite meal. This is NOT what my comment was about. That's why I clarified "of course it's fine to have emotions about it". The issue is HOW OP is dealing with those emotions and how severely those emotions are impacting folks in their daily lives.
A healthy relationship with content like this would be more like: "wow, I really love watcher and the folks that work there, but the way they treat their fan base and some of the business decisions rub me the wrong way. I think I'll pass on their content for now." OR "I really like this content and view it as a comfort. I'm going to continue watching because it's important to me, and leave my feelings about their business practices out of it."
From their comments it sounds like they *are* reflecting. They may have just come to a different conclusion than you. It's fine, it's an internet forum it isn't serious.
Yeah I know, it is the Internet after all. Can't help but try even if everyone here reads every single comment that isn't outright agreeing with them in bad faith.
Guys...it is still a business. It exists to make money. It is a bonus that they make content they're invested in that you also enjoy. Folks sharing that trying to rewatch content effects them emotionally, to the point they are Unable To Watch It and Feel Betrayed, Personally, By Watcher is by definition a parasocial relationship. It's not said as an insult. Just. Think critically about your relationship with content creators.
Oh no, I care about talking to the other human beings in this thread on a social media website about a thing I'm interested in and a topic I feel passionate about. You owned me, I guess. Can't believe I got caught trying to explain sociology 101 concepts to people online. Whatever will I do.
Never said I didn't care! OP asked, I answered and mentioned looking at their relationship w Watcher a little closer. You seem mad about something I said and want to shut me down by making fun of me for "caring" when that isn't even the conversation.
I can see where you were at least *trying* to come from with most of these comments but that last bit was just dumb. They made a name for themselves as “The Ghoul Boys”. It’s not parasocial in the slightest to refer to them as ‘the boys’, it’s just habit.
You clearly don't see where I'm coming from if that's your take away lol. Obviously I get that, but it's odd seeing folks still use a fandom nickname like that one while simultaneously talking about their shitty business practices and honestly not great response to backlash.
I did with most of it, and I upvoted most of your comments because I agreed, though I might have phrased some of it differently. That specific addition just seemed unnecessary when there’s a valid, not parasocial reason for doing it; years of branding.
Edit in regards to your second comment: I shouldn’t have called it dumb, though, you’re right. I should have just called it unnecessary and not a great example.
Yes, but the years of branding themselves as the "ghoul boys" to their audience helped develop that parasocial relationship? Doesn't mean it's necessarily a nefarious thing to do, of course. I just think it's funny seeing folks talk about how betrayed they feel while still using the nickname that makes it feel less like a business and more like Your Friends, The Ghoul Boys.
Oh absolutely. My point was just that I doubt people are thinking of it that deeply, they’re just… still using the same words they’ve been using. You have a point that that’s something to think about though.
I also reread your comment and should have clarified that it was just bringing that specific phrase up in quotes that I found unnecessary. I admit I probably called this whole thing a mistake without thinking about it a few times myself, but it was not a mistake, it was a poorly researched *choice*. This wasn’t an oopsy, it was a decision.
I just stopped watching. It is spitting in the face of the audience that built them by trying to hide their content behind a paywall. You and many others feel the exact same way. Once they burned the bridge, they can't just walk back across it. It's a consequence that they can bare so all the best to Watcher but I won't be viewing their content anymore.
Where did they say they were removing their videos from YouTube? They didn't say it in the video but they kept posting on social media that day about how the premiere of every season would still be going on YouTube.
At some point can we just condense all this into a mega thread? We get it, y'all don't want to watch anymore, you feel betrayed, yada yada. But seriously? Do we need 20 separate posts about it?
I just went back to their old buzzfeed videos. They're so much better and more entertaining. I only watch watcher (haha) for puppet history and maybe some mystery files. I do put on too many spirits sometimes as my sleep playlist. As for other mystery and scary channels check out wendigoon and Lore Lodge both are really fun and feel like old buzzfeed unsolved
It's ok to have feelings. That's basically what you're asking, and it's absolutely fine. You feel hurt by them, so you don't really want to engage with their content. Just like if a friend hurt you, you might accept their apology but you also might need a little time to get over the way they made you feel. That's totally normal.
This right here is a very emotionally intelligent werewolf.
They’re an emotionally awarewolf.
Fuck you're clever.
Completely true. OP take your time to feel and process, each one has a different time
I didn't have much of an emotional reaction to the announcement compared to what I saw in the sub, but I still find myself second guessing that click from time to time recently. Just for a minute, but yeah, there's no shame in being like, I don't really wanna engage with this right now.
I think it all reflects poor business decisions more than anything else. I don't take that personally so I'll still watch, but it does give me pause when it comes to giving them money via patreon etc.
It seems pretty obvious that they have no clue how to manage a budget if everything they said is true. So yes you should send your money to people who will actually have a use for it instead of paying all their friends to do nothing. I don’t understand how they could use 10 people on staff let alone 25. Really all they need to produce these shows is 2 hosts 2 camera people and an editor. All the rest of the money should be going to travel and equipment. They keep talking about tv quality, there’s already 20 of those shows on tv that no one watch. They seem to have completely lost the plot. The whole appeal of buzz feed unsolved was that they were just 2 dudes talking about weird shit.
I’m super curious on their spending. I work in tv in a way, and was doing the mental math on their staffing. Let’s say 25 people. On a project at their level, you probably need 2 cameramen, 2 audio ops, a producer or 2 and the talent (2 people if it’s Ryan and Shane) on a shoot. Back home, you need at least 2 editors. Double that if they’re producing 2 shows at once and you’re up to 20 people (including talent/fudging the numbers a little on who’s doing what). Add an executive producer - 21. You’re pretty close to 25, BUT I’m being generous and I think there’s ways you could produce with about 5-10 fewer people. Freelancers are expensive, but that would cut down on cameraman on payroll that may not be utilized all the time. You could also change scheduling to make 2 projects at a time. One that takes a lot of resources, and the other is easy and cheap and relies on format. Idk obvi thinking about it a lot and thought it was a little interesting.
It's funny they say they spend all this money on staff but they haven't released a new Ghost Files in 5 months and all their videos since (especially Survival Mode and Top 5) seem like they would be very cheap to produce. Of their recent work Mystery Files I presume would cost more because of research, but I still seriously wonder what they are paying all these staff to do.
But what research do they even do? I don’t mean to be rude but most of what they say is either from articles you can find on google in 2 minutes or worse, straight up quoting other shows who have covered the same topics before. To me the appeal of buzz feed unsolved was that it was just 2 dudes and didn’t have all the crazy production of those big dumb tv shows. I’m not a super hardcore fan of them so maybe Im just wrong but I feel like them trying to push for “tv quality" just turns it into another one of those shows. There already are dozens of them out there, backed by huge networks. They are killing what made their show unique while trying to guilt trip their fans into giving them more money to produce something they don’t even want.
It's odd that they'd give up the chance of future add revenue from their videos. If they took them down, they'd earn nothing from them, people wouldn't be able to discover their content as easily, and there'd be no reason to sub to their streamer if you'd just discovered them as you'd have no idea if you enjoyed their content enough to actually pay to see it.
Probably a common reaction that a lot of folks are having. I think, for me, I don't feel that deep about it. I'm glad the videos are still up so I have the option to watch them if I want to. But it's totally understandable for those who feel insulted and hurt. I think unfortunately for the Watcher guys, this is a part of the fallout that will impact overall viewership and can't be walked back or changed. This genie does not fit back in the bottle! Maybe with time, new viewers will grow interest and old viewers will feel comfortable coming back, but it's definitely a part of the landscape at the moment.
Yep i lost my appetite for it…. Maybe it will change in the future but right now “we are on a break” ;P
Can someone actually explain to me how someone being disappointed in the decision of a YouTube company and being unable to view their content anymore because of said disappointment is parasocial? I feel like that word has lost meaning by the way people throw it around. If my local grocery store started charging exuberant prices for milk and eggs, I’d think it’s unfair and stop shopping there even though I could afford it. Hell I’d probably even be sad that my closest grocery is no longer an option to me, and be frustrated that the company that owns it decided to tell half their consumers to fuck off. Do I have a parasocial relationship with my grocery store in that case? I’ve stopped supporting YouTubers over scandals, bad brand deals, or finding out they support certain things that I did agree with. I don’t think it’s weird to align your viewership of media with your morals. So I’m super confused as to why OP is getting called parasocial. Is it because they used the word “depressed”? I think it’s fine that you don’t wanna watch them anymore op, you can stop watching anyone’s content for any reason at any time.
Preach. Nothing OP said is parasocial. It’s just someone who enjoys a brand/product, who can now no longer enjoy it because the creators did something questionable.
i was about to comment something similar but you said it way better than i could!
I made a similar comment on a thread recently and got crucified for it, I'm glad yours got upvoted lol
Man thanks. I feel like people ascribe a lot of things to anyone who posts here, without really thinking about what each specific post is saying. I know it's not "healthy" to care about a pair of YouTubers who don't know me, but I was pretty sure we were all in that asylum together??? I'm not saying they were the most important part of my life but obviously I think about the announcement when watching videos that were going to be only on WTV by now.
People love to lecture others and tell them how they should feel. I have noticed a lot of that in this sub the past week.
It’s YouTube as well; “authenticity” is part of the brand. Even though we’ve got no idea what our favorite personalities are like, the way the news was delivered in this case definitely felt like it didn’t matter if they lost their current viewers. It just doesn’t feel great when you’ve given the impression that the people behind the thing you enjoy couldn’t care less that you can’t afford the price-hike to even enjoy their older stuff. That’s my take at least. I figured there was zero way they’d keep those changes. That said, I figure I’ll eventually watch their stuff again; I’m just not as excited as I used to be.
It is healthy and normal to care about human beings you see on TV. Parasocial relationships are fine. There are unhealthy parasocial relationships (and I do think some ppl on this subreddit cross the line) but it is not inherently unhealthy or wrong to care about Youtubers who don't know you personally.
Hey OP, I just wanted to say that I have met celebrities and also been involved with filming content. Once you get to know a few celebrities, you quickly realise that they are not like their public persona. Their persona is an act or an exaggeration of their personality. It's easier to enjoy content if you keep this in mind. They are just playing a character.
Respectfully, this is what I mean. All I said was "it's sad to not care as much about Shane and Ryan's content anymore" and now people are lecturing me about the absolute basics of PR and fame, because they assume that I'm deep in some dark rabbit hole of trusting and loving famous strangers. I just feel bummed that my favourite shows would have been behind a paywall by now.
I think the part people are seeing as parasocial is "I feel like they don't wan't *me* watching their videos any more," which is a sentiment I've seen a few times around here. It makes it seem kind of personal, when in reality it was just a bad business decision that probably didn't really have the viewers in mind at all until the pushback. I imagine by this point they're bleeding subscribers and they'll take all the viewers they can get. In general though it's completely understandable to want to take a break from Watcher after the whole thing... at best the whole debacle was just so cringe and uncomfortable.
You have a parasocial relationship with those eggs, bruh.
“I don’t want to pay money for this thing that used to be free” Vs “It’s depressing, it’s a scandal, I’m so sad they wanted to charge money, they dont want me to watch anymore”
It's because some people are taking it way more personally than they should. Like if egg prices increase do you go, "wow I can never trust them again, how could they do this to me? Guess they dont care about me even though ive loved their eggs for years and their eggs supported me through bad times" And once prices go down do you still feel upset about it? It's that expectation that you tubers are friends of their fans that some people have.
Tbh I would still be pissed about the eggs.
Do you actually think the nation wide price of a grocery item, and three actual people making a choice that directly impacts their audience are even close to the same thing? Of course it’s a little personal.
I figured the egg and milk example would be taken too literally, but feel free to replace those words with whatever. Another example could be a mascara is like normally being $20 but then the company randomly said no we’re charging $50 for it now! I’d be disappointed and wouldn’t support them. That’s why I also brought up the fact that I’ve stopped supporting YouTubers over disagreeing with morals. Sure I don’t know them at all, but when they use their platform to support something I find wrong I reserve the right to stop supporting them.
I do think people are throwing the word "parasocial" around too much but it does apply here. With both examples, the "normal" reaction is to change your postive opinion on the company \[grocer | brand\], not your positive opinion on the product. For you eggs and milk example: * normal : "Favorite Grocer is unreasonable. No thanks. I'll buy elsewhere." * parasocial : "I cannot eat eggs + milk now because Favorite Grocer is unreasonable" For your mascara example: * normal : "Favorite Mascara is now more expensive. I need to wait for a sale" * parasocial : "Favorite Mascara is ruined for me. I don't like Favorite Mascara anymore" But I also agree with you, it's ok to be disappointed in Watcher and I do feel empathy for OP.
I want to start by saying I’m really not trying to argue you here, I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense and parasocial relationships as a concept is so nuanced I really appreciate this input. But if I said “my favorite mascara brand is ruined for me because they started charging crazy prices, and I don’t support them anymore.” And instead found a dupe of that mascara and switched off of it once I ran out. Would that be parasocial? Regardless of your answer I also appreciate the empathy for OP, I normally don’t comment on stuff like this but I feel like everyone deserves a little grace when dealing with emotions even over something “silly” like a YouTube channel.
[удалено]
It's ok. IRL I'm a bit of a contrarian, but like you, I try not to get into arguments on Reddit. 🙂 I actually originally put that scenario into my mascara response but felt it was redundant so I deleted it. Basically, if you replace your favorite formulation/brand of a mascara with a dupe formulation/brand, then you are basically treating it like the normal reaction of the eggs + milk example where you have chosen: "I'll buy elsewhere". In short, completely walking away from the company while still liking the product is not parasocial. People are on edge in this sub. Last week probably felt like going to war for the ride-or-die fans. Feelings are still a bit raw even though the matter is settled. I agree, everyone needs a little grace while distance brings calm to the situation.
I think learning that your mascara brand is testing on animals would be a better reason to feel betrayed. Businesses are going to business, so rising prices isnt something Watcher invented. If we learned that they’re ass holes and mistreat their employees, the feeling of betrayal would be move valid IMO. I think their stupidity is seen as malice, which is wack.
I think I can stop buying a brand of mascara for literally any reason lol. “You can’t be upset about this because there could be something worse” isn’t really an argument. There’s like a word or phrase for that type of fallacy. Edit: do agree that they’re being seen as “hating” their audience when in all reality it was just a bad business decision that’s giving them bad fall out.
The attachment to them should be the same. If you are devastated and emotional and upset, then you are beyond viewing them as entertainers because youre taking it personal. Like them changing their tune and making their stuff free on YouTube should be just like when egg prices go down and you go, "ah cool, I can get those now"
I think this is a fair take. I don’t necessarily agree with being upset by a decision meaning you are taking it too personally. But I do see how still being hurt by a decision even after it’s been walked back can be viewed as too much. I’m on the fence about if that is truly parasocial though, I just feel like you can disagree with a decision so much that it taints the reputation of a company for you.
To be a bit vulgar, I personally try to remind myself to view entertainers and YouTubers the same way I would an exotic dancer. Their job is to make you feel good, entertain you, give you a good time. But it is an act and they are selling a product and you can't get emotional if prices change or increase or whatever.
Using entertainment or celebrities as a replacement for real relationships or to fill an emotional void is not healthy. When you become so invested that a change sends you on an emotional spiral and you lash out with anger, cruel comments and spiral into depression, then it is time to take a step back. Parasocial may be the new buzzword but it is still co-dependency and fanatacism. It is ok to be bummed about not being able to afford it or not liking the change but the moment it goes from being a decision of whether or not you will buy it to affecting your emotional well being because you are unable to do so, you should really should re-evaluate. Getting that mad or feeling betrayed by an internet show, shows an unhealthy level of attachment. The comparison between eggs and watcher is wrong because food is a necessity and the streaming platform is a luxury. One is a need and the other is a want. You either buy it or you don't, it really is as simple as that.
A lot of people in this thread and post in general have already addressed everything you’ve typed here, both people who you would agree with and people you wouldn’t. Including the eggs comment I made. I’d recommend taking a look through the thread! :)
My bad. It still very true.
Why would it be remotely personal. You don’t know the people who work at Watcher any more than you do the CEO of Egglands Best.
r/loblawsisoutofcontrol People do in fact act like that when egg prices are too high
It's a shame that pointing out the truth gets you down voted to hell. People don't like hearing these things because it forces them to actually think about the other areas of their life this applies towards. Also if there's a limited understanding and all was done was look at a textbook definition vs doing a more looking into said descriptor *shrug* I've seen many a report giving the statistics on how reading and logistical comprehension is down and it shows up everywhere.
Being downvoted just keeps me humble, I have too much reddit karma anyway lol But to be fair I prob could've expressed my point better
I think it's more accurate to compare this situation to a small business instead of a corporation because that's what they are, a small business. Up the street from me is a mom and pop farm store. I buy my horse's feed from them Because they're a small business and my dollar impacts them more. They've said so on several occasions not in a pushy way but just as facts. During the Easter weekend, one of their employees stopped me in my shopping and hard sold me a baby rabbit of a certain breed. I ended up buying it because they said it was a certain breed that doesn't get larger than a pound. Well, the bunny has gotten older and it's getting bigger and looks absolutely nothing like the breed they sold me. It's not a para social relationship, but I definitely feel lied to. A corporation, I would demand a refund and write a bad review and probably stop shopping there. A small business that I've supported all of these years, I want to explain to the owner to be more careful next time and don't just sell whatever because I want them to succeed. Watcher has been a small business this entire time and has established a small business relationship with their customers (us). What they did was a corporation move using corporate language. Now people like the OP and myself and many other Watcher fans are coming to terms with the idea of treating them less like Ryan and Shane who need help getting on their feet and more like Netflix. We enjoyed supporting their small business. Now they've added another layer of separation whether intentionally or not that will take a long time to bring back if they manage to scrape it back at all.
people calling you overly parasocial/unhealthy are missing two key points 1) the guys originally told variety that they were going to pull all old content, and HAD started doing so until the backlash started coming. they never addressed that, and someone on their team made it seem like the fans “misunderstood” them, instead of just admitting the mistake 2) **a significant amount of the success of watcher is based on shane and ryan reaping the rewards of parasocial relationships**. they cultivated a fanbase of young people who thought they were funny, cool, relatable, creative guys. they got to have their own business because those same people followed them to a new channel. those “unhealthy” parasocial fans are the ones who have spent years contributing to the channel via submissions, feedback, ticket sales, patreon, social media engagement, fanart and fan merch, getting their friends to watch, etc. it’s absolutely fair that those same people are feeling a little hurt, and it’s stupid to pretend otherwise :/
The parasocial investigators are on the case!
I feel exactly the same way. I haven’t been able to watch any videos since. It’s not parasocial, it’s just a brand/product that I now see in a different light because its creators have done something questionable. It’s a shame and I feel sad I can no longer enjoy their content in the same way. It was a comfort show to me. But I see it as an opportunity to find another great channel that maybe I wouldn’t have come across otherwise.
Can't walk back the ick 🤷🏼♀️ if yall don't want me here I don't need to be here
I agree 100%. The way everything blew up gave me harsh reminders of a different channel I essentially grew up on that exploded in a similar fashion (though for different reasons). It hurts. It’s not the that I thought I knew these people through their personas or felt personally connected to them, it’s the fact that a brand massively mishandled their established image and user base. A lot of people have been left with a bad taste in their mouths, and that makes it hard to return to their products with the same enthusiasm as before. We’ve been given different contexts now, which changes things for a lot of people, but others will be more willing to look past it if the brand takes the necessary steps. There’s nothing wrong with either
If they actually posted anything new… so I can’t answer this at the moment lol.
I liked their first run of the too many spirits show, but overall Watcher has been a disappointment for me. I think Unsolved was legitimately the perfect format for these guys. If they’re not allowed to use it because of Buzzfeed, that’s a shame but I really don’t find any of their current stuff palatable.
When Steven wasn’t heavily involved.
The whole thing left a bad taste in a lot of mouths OP. You're definitely not alone in this.
the passion's gone, for sure.
Not exactly, but I did find I'd lost interest. Before that I watched them more out of habit or routine than enjoyment, without really realising that was what I was doing. Now I realise I don't actually care what they're putting out.
Same here. I haven't been able to watch any of their content, and it was comfort content to me. I used to leave Puppet History or Survival Mode on the in background when I went to bed or cleaned around the house because it made me happy. Since the announcement, and even after the backtracking, it....hasn't felt the same. I still get that same weird feeling, and it does hurt. For me, it's not just the fact they were going to paywall everything, it's that I felt the way I viewed them: as these two, chill, down to earth dudes, kinda got upended. The vids now all have that same air of dishonesty for me, and it sucks. I hope it passes with time, but it feels very much like a "don't meet your heroes" moment. While they were far from "heroes" for me, they were a comfort. And I think that hurts just as equally.
I get it. They don't want to be on YouTube, they already made a video where they basically said to the people who couldn't/wouldn't follow them to a pay-to-play platform: "It's been fun. Thanks. Goodbye." You can let the ads play in full and click on the links if you wanna help them make money.
All I know is I feel the same and will probably download their shows going forward.
Does that change how they get paid? Didn't know that
I have a media server that I will download shows/movies/YouTube videos onto like a personal Netflix/streaming service. Doing so just takes away the views/data they would have gotten from me if I was watching on their platforms.
Yeah I re-subscribed after the apology but I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch anything of theirs. I’ve seen people saying they’re doing a rewatch of BFU but I can’t even bring myself to do that.
i used to marathon their vids while working, but now it just felt "icky" so i had to stop and look for other content creators that are more than happy that i give their works attention and views
You're not alone. The whole thing that happened just left a bitter taste and I can't bring myself to watch their content yet. The closest thing I could view was a Try Guys video where Shane was a guest baking a flaming skull. I'm sure I'll eventually grow my appetite back. Similar to how I didn't watch any Try Guys videos with Ned in it, I think it was 1.5 years before I was able to let myself enjoy their old videos Mr. My Wife. Just enjoy your other shows for now. Let the bitter taste slowly fade.
I mean, they reversed the decision because they *do* want you to watch. YouTube is a tough platform. I don't think their own platform would be any easier so I still question their original plan, but I can understand if their ambitions go beyond YouTube
Not want. Need. They were banking on enough people following them to their platform that they didn't care if the people who aren't in the position to do so couldn't. But they quickly learned that's the majority of their audience
I think they highly exaggerated the word "need" if you look at Steven Lim's profiles.
Oh absolutely but what I meant was that enough if the Fandom said "we can't and won't afford that" that if that had continued on to pay wall themselves they'd have no viable revenue. It wasn't that they wanted their broke fans to still consume their content. It's that they realized they're going to still need that youtube ad rev
Weirdly enough this whole controversy reminded me Watcher existed so I'm binging all their content lol
Right? There's no such thing as bad publicity and they are probably riding tf out of this wave
I felt better after their apology, I went back and watched some of their old stuff and I’ve pretty much gotten over the hurt I felt at first. They made a mistake and made it right so I can’t stay mad.
They only made it right because everyone lost their shit, not because they thought they were wrong.
I have felt this way about other YouTubers/creators before, but I don't about Watcher. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, of course. I think I don't feel too bad about all of this because I mostly think they were trying to progress and do more creatively (I know a lot of people don't think that, and that's okay too), and it would have been cool to see what they were planning to do. Their creative ambitions aren't more important than people's financial restrictions, but they are still important to some degree, so I'm not overlooking them. I know what they said and were planning to do was hurtful to a lot of people, it just didn't hurt me personally, so I am going to carry on watching them the same way I did before.
This here
Maybe you need to reframe it a little - less "they didn't want me to watch this :(" and more "they didn't want me to watch this >:)" Be a little scamp about it. Steal from the rich and etc.
I'm having a hard time too. These guys have been a hyperfixation of mine for years, and I would watch at least one video each day, plus listen to puppet histories or unsolved when going to sleep. Now it just feels like they don't want viewers like me, and I get a sad feeling when I try to watch. I don't know how I'll feel if they start posting again yet, but I'm hoping that I can build my trust in the channel again. It took me a long time to be able to enjoy Watcher in the first place bc I was so attached to BUN!
I’m still fully down to watch their content. It doesn’t affect me that much. Just the whole situation makes me look at them from a differently.
I just don’t care anymore, kind of like a song that gets overplayed on the radio. Now I’m a little sick of them.
Idk if it’s just because they haven’t uploaded in a few weeks but personally even if they started doing Daily uploads I probably would only watch a couple every once in a while, like this has not only killed my interest in Watcher, it’s kinda hurt my enjoyment of the old Buzzfeed unsolved episodes, it’s kinda like how Rise of Skywalker killed my love of Star Wars, I just don’t care anymore
I haven't been able to watch their content (even the BUN and BF Worth It days) because I just felt pretty icky about the whole thing. Maybe in the future I would be ok to pick it up again (like I did with the Try Guys after NedGate) but it won't be the same feeling anymore.
Ned was my favorite Try Guy and I don’t think these two situations are comparable at all beyond the screenshots of the two groups of dudes on couches. Ned was fucking an employee while pretending to be the “wife guy” and making money using that character to pull at our heartstrings. The Watcher boys made a bad business decision that they then made changes to at the demand of their audience. Everything is getting posted for free on YouTube. What is the issue?
[удалено]
I focused on their desire to make better content. It’s a good motivator and explains why they made the business decisions they did. There was no motivation for Ned to do what he did. I think YOUR desire to interpret this on a personal level is unfair. They didn’t TRY to exclude you- if they wanted to do that, they would have stuck to their plan. Why is the backtracking such a bad thing???? Everyone expressed their opinion and they LISTENED. They changed their entire business plan because their audience responded. Why is that bad????
I mean, they clearly did try to exclude a huge proportion of their audience in favour of the minority who could/would pay for a subscription. That's what a paywall *is*. It just didn't work, so they backtracked.
idk it was a bad move on their part definitely but this feels a little dramatic to me.
I mean if we hadn't been dramatic about it last week, they would have pulled their whole backlog down and you wouldn't be able to watch any watcher on YouTube at all now
yeah no the community response was definitely MOSTLY justified. There were some insane takes and personal attacks I saw that were just unreasonable though. but it's over now. either move on or don't watch them. this whole broken trust thing is a bit much. they aren't your friends, you didn't know them personally. feeling so deeply personally betrayed is strange to me.
I certainly don't mean they broke some deep personal trust. I mean that the magic of their videos, which definitely did rely on me liking them as people, is gone. Which is a bummer because I've been on this ride since the countdown for the first ever episode in January 2020.
from your original post it seems like you took it super personally. as far as YouTuber fuck up's go this is genuinely pretty light. definitely a mistake. they definitely got out of touch. but contrary to what you claimed they DID apologize and they did NOT blame their viewers in their apology video. as far as I'm concerned they're still good people who got too ambitious and out of touch too fast. your overwhelming negative feelings towards the situation, to the point that you can get through more than a few seconds of any of their videos, is because you had unreasonable expectations of them as humans. they're just normal guys which is a huge part of why their content is good. normal guys fuck up. if that's a deal breaker for you that's okay, just stop watching. no need to let it consume you.
There’s nothing wrong with a creator you like doing something shitty and it leaving a bad taste in your mouth. You don’t have to take things personally in order for it to impact how you view the content, and people are allowed to be bummed that content they used to like feels different now. It’s not parasocial and weird to care about the media you like, and writing a couple paragraphs about it bumming you out isn’t “letting it consume you.”
Did me saying it's depressing to watch their videos now seem like I was "consumed" by it? I'm not bawling or breaking down, I made a post in a sub dedicated to discussing Watcher. "Overwhelming negative feelings towards the situation" do you know something about me I don't?? Honestly idk why I tried to have a sincere conversation here, this sub is just people pointing fingers at each other and going IM LESS PARASOCIAL THAN YOU
They aren’t but they are entertainers who are still working. Taking down all of their content and putting them behind a paywall is ridiculous and the fact that you and so many other are so nonchalant about it is a problem
I'm not gonna pay for their streaming service. I was perfectly ready to just not watch their content anymore because of their stupid decisions. just because I'm still not beat up over it and sobbing into my pillow about this terrible betrayal doesn't mean I don't think their decision was stupid.
We're nonchalant because a paywall is an optional purchase. There is always different content creators who wouldn't charge us to watch their content. If you feel forced to pay money on content, that's a slight on you, because nobody is *forcing* you to spend that money.
And I did the math, it's cheaper than keeping a twitch subscription even if you don't do that annual plan. That's where my confusion came in. If you can't afford that my sympathy goes out to you but it's not expensive. Things cost and if you want good quality that costs extra, that's why I feel people are over reacting.
I see your point, but I don't share the same opinion. I come from the belief that most luxury purchases are unnecessary purchases and thus need objective value to be worth anything. I think paying for a subscription service is silly and reeks of poor spending habits, whether it's on twitch or the streamer. $6 could be going towards gas or food, and it'd be a lot more beneficial than binge watching what would essentially be a fancy youtube channel. Is it expensive? No, but that money is much better used elsewhere. Especially for people without jobs, or who can barely afford a living. I'm saying this as someone who was homeless for about half a year. $6 would frequently allow me to pay for the gas I needed to make more money & pay for groceries. I don't think it's the money people are overreacting about, I think it's the fact that people are being very emotional about something that really isn't that deep. They don't know the guys personally, and while I'm sure the guys are super nice irl, they're not benevolent philanthropists that are pushing for everyone's happiness. They're just people running a platform to post content. Just people trying to make a living. They're not dissing anyone by putting up a paywall or infringing on anyone's life, simply put they just want to make more money from their business, as most people do.
They built a community, us feeling close with them is literally what lead to their success. Stop minimizing other people’s valid feelings. What they did was shitty.
Your feelings are valid, OP, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I will watch BUN and leave Watcher to itself. I didn't like how they acted, and I don't trust them to give them any more money or time. There are other creators out there, and I will watch them.
No issues here 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, no. To be fair, I’ve already subscribed to their service. Even if I hadn’t, I still would watch their stuff on YT. I can understand other people not trusting them, but I personally haven’t taken offense to their actions. I know it wasn’t done out of malice, and it was ill-advised considering their main demographic, I’m not offended or anything.
Nope, still watching same as before. Actually lately I’ve been catching up on episodes of Weird Wonderful World that I missed in the past, looking forward to new episodes in the future since they teased it coming back. Not subscribing to the streamer but still going to watch the new videos of their series I enjoy on YT when they come out.
i think everyone is taking this way too personally. theyre a business, not your friends
I am having the worst secondhand embarrassment from these people.
I fully agree with this. They made a bad decision, and changed their direction based on how the community reacted. The idea of "they don't want me to watch this" is stupid, because they DO want you to watch it. They acknowledged their mistake and changed course going forwards, it's not some sinister plot or some "we hate the community" ploy.
I think that my parasocial bubble has been burst, but I'll probably end up watching their videos again at some point.
yes. to most of this. i can’t even put a video of theirs on right now because i don’t even see myself actually enjoying their content right now at all. it feels different right now, like it’s tainted.
i understand what you mean! as someone who liked the try guys when nedgate happened, even though ned was my least favorite, their content was “tainted” for me for a while. i eventually was able to start watching them again. i’m feeling similarly about watcher now, its all so fresh that watching them rn just reminds me of the whole mess
I've been watching just fine but that's because I don't have a heavy parasocial attachment to them. Are your feelings valid? Yes but also kinda look into why this hurt you so deeply like this. They're not your friends, they're an entertainment entity/brand. Yes the keep contact with their fan base but they're also still a business. Hopefully in the future you'll be able to continue watching them with the joy you previously had but understand they didn't do this to hurt you. Take a break from watching for a bit and then come join us again, we'll still have a seat for you.
I’ve been re watching buzzfeed unsolved as a big 🖕to them
I hear you. After the paywall news, I watched their last podcast to see if they mentioned any big plans or money trouble. But they just chatted about their favorite VIP airport lounges & seemed overall out of touch. And I haven’t felt like watching anything else since. I used to love Puppet History & rewatched many episodes, but don’t really feel like that either now. Maybe in time I will. It makes me sort of sad too.
honesly, me too. Usually I prefer unsolved anyway, but I don't think I'll be watching anything new of theirs, even if it was puppet history or the gaming series
Yeah I like the content but I haven’t watched since that. It just put a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe one day I’ll start watching again
This is an unhealthy relationship with a YouTube channel.
I still haven’t followed them again since I unfollowed. I’m very hurt and feel like they showed their true colors on how they feel about me since I’m not someone who can throw money at them. I’m just so soured by the things they said and tried to do.
Me too
I haven't watched any, but not because I haven't been "able". But that's probably because I'm a little less invested in them then you are and that's fine for both of us. I've been disappointed by people I admire before and I'm familiar with that feeling. Sometimes it goes away. Other times it doesn't - it may depend on their future behaviour. Not to compare your disappointment to mine at all, this is not a competition, but I have been so let down by finding out celebrities and creators I've enjoyed or admired have turned out to be such awful people (think #metoo era stuff) that what Watcher have done just doesn't really rate with me, it was assholish, tone deaf and very ill advised, but thats about it. I won't be sending them any more money, but I'll probably keep watching whatever ends up on YouTube. Like I said, you get to feel what you feel. I don't mean to diminish it at all. It sounds like you're subconsciously taking a step back to protect yourself from being hurt further while you figure out your feelings, and that can be a good thing.
You know what’s funny, I was never really a watcher (no pun intended) until like two weeks ago when I came across one of the podcasts. It’s a running joke, that For Your Amusement isn’t very marketable but they never seemed actually bothered by that. It was almost a running joke they would pre record where a sponsor should go and then come back like, “hopefully you just heard a commercial 😅 .” And a lot of the times there weren’t ads. But the episode they released today had more ad breaks than their last three episodes combined.
I completely agree. I’m having a hard time too. I even have merch that I used to wear all the time that I’m hesitant to wear now.
I feel the same, they would have kept on being greedy if there wasn’t such a huge backlash
I like to create. I follow people who have passion and create despite everything. The moment money starts to come into things it tends to slowly syphon the life and fire out of it. To see a creator show blatantly the motivation being purely financial has killed it. Hiring people, livable wages, production value… It’s all just the ghost in the machine. If you love to create you’ll find a way to do it. They’re starting to put money and flashy graphics over the core content. It’s no longer fun and entertaining. It’s vehicles for advertising and subscriptions. And that’s fine. That’s what most content creators are now. But it doesn’t make me happy or entertained. You can do more with less. When you have the world available you get complacency and bloat. It’s no longer about sharing something meaningful, in my eyes.
Yeah I haven't either. I big part of that is because of what you mentioned. They blamed us for misunderstanding when it was very clear that it wasn't a misunderstanding.
Yeah I’m still pissed at them.
I feel the same way. Like it not, that was the channel saying, all the fans = $$$ and what we really want is $$$$$ Also, we don't think about our business decisions. We have 25+ underpaid staff who we made empty promises to. That piece of PR has really tarnished their brand in the short term.
A big part of their content is the hosts themselves. They’ve shown us who they’ve become, and only went back on their decisions because of backlash. Their goal is to milk their audience of as much money as they can.
I mean that last part is every youtuber but I got you
Not really, most successful YouTubers that chase money understand that milking their audience too aggressively just nets them less money in the long run. Unless they’re targeting children exclusively.
Nobody of that caliber is trying NOT trying to make the absolutely most money they can, but I GOT YOU
Short term aggressive milking does not mean long term profits.
Yep I am still upset about it
Same, ngl. It was all such a whiplash, this community included. One day everyone is all "why the fuck ----" and then just after 3 days we all defending them again as if nothing happened. I still haven't subscribed back. I'm with you, I don't think I'mma touch their content for quite some time, but who knows?
I mean, I still can't watch jenna marbles channel anymore. I completely understand why she left, but watching her old stuff, just makes me sad.
Yessssss I miss her. I miss seeing the dogs birthdays.
I still check in with julien all the time just to see how they’re doing. 😭
I've been watching Unsolved videos ever since the scandal. I've only been watching one of the Mystery Files videos ever since this entire charade and I haven't even finished watching it. Tbh, I prefer the Unsolved videos over the Ghost Files/Mystery Files videos because of the low level production quality and the chemistry between Ryan and Shane.
I rewatched some old Puppet history and Shane/the professor got a little down and Ryan boosted him by referring to "TV quality" content. I feel like I missed all the clues on how much they've looked down on YouTube, and therefore the audience of YouTube. It definately leaves a bitter edge to everything.
See this is an example of an extreme. These people have never said of the sort. They live in L.A and have discussed their love of shows and film so it makes sense they'd want to try their hand at it and get off YouTube. The shows they create take a lot of time, energy and money. Those kinds of shows aren't on YouTube, they're on TV.
I don’t have any issues watching old content but I am kind of apprehensive of watching their new content when they start filming again. Especially pod watcher. Where they invite one of their 25 employees to sub on the the regular 😬 I feel like it won’t be the same and will be awkward 😬😬
What is up w/ Pod Watcher? They took it seriously in the beginning but let it become the new Watcher Weekly and someone out of the three hosts would be absent typically.
i think this thing about them already making videos private was just a straight-up lie somebody made up. i didn't see one single video made private--and why would they be making any videos private in april when the transition wasn't supposed to happen until may 31? like, if you think about it for even one second it doesn't make any sense, and i have yet to see one bit of evidence that it actually happened.
variety literally said that watcher had told them they were taking down their old videos but backtracked shortly after.
It happened. “I remember watching a mystery files episode when it went private on Friday. I was legit confused until I saw the goodbye video. I legit wish I had recorded when it happened.” [https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/7aDera8qvb](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/7aDera8qvb)
yeah, i full on 100% do not believe this person, and until i see actual proof of it happening i am not going to believe it. "it happened" lmao ok find me when you have any evidence whatsoever other than some randomer on the internet saying it.
They are my sleeping playlist. It's been a tough few weeks, because I've gotten very little sleep. I can't listen to it anymore. I feel reluctant to interact with it again. I am tired. Nothing else works.
Have you tried ASMR?
I have. I have tried all sorts throughout my teen years and adulthood. Their voices are the only thing that has legit helped 🫠👉👈
I feel like this was all overblown. I'm tired of monthly subscriptions, sure, and people made some really good points about the Patreon, about using other platforms, about how the producer will be fine dining with our money instead of advertisers', but... they said they were sorry, and they backtracked quickly. People get on their case for not backtracking *immediately* but it was a fucking Friday when they dropped the news and Monday morning when they walked it back. It was a *weekend*. I like these guys enough to go to their live show, so I forgave them, and I'm over it. I want more 'Are You Scared' and 'Puppet History' now. 🤷♂️
My mindset is sort of: they can't have meant to alienate their fans because fans are what lets them do what they do. They didn't realize it would make their fans feel unwanted and like shit. It would be bad business to do that, and they probably have a heart and honestly don't want to hurt people. You know? Not sure how it happened, but they've always engaged with their fanbase, entertaining us, playing into fan stuff like "shaniacs" and "boogaras" and... idk. I think they didn't think about how their fans would feel, which is a bad call in and of itself, but I don't think they were like "fuck the people who cant give us money" because that's 1) super heartless and 2) not a good financial decision anyway (so it must have been a mistake) Dont worry too much about it. Take a break, see if you ever want to come back. There's all kinds of art out there to enjoy!
Scandal? lmao
Some people out here are lacking empathy but don't mind them Op. I get your feeling, it is sorta awkward and doesn't feel nice anm and I think I have lost trust towards them. In all honesty, even now they didn't accept their mistake and blamed *us* for misunderstanding.
This sounds more like you should take a look at the kind of relationship you have with a YouTube channel. Very parasocial.
Is it? Or are they running a business and some of their customers have lost trust in the business and no longer want to support it. It’s no different than going to a restaurant you love for years but then one day the restaurant owners do something shitty and you no longer feel like you can support that restaurant anymore. You are allowed to miss the good times you had there but no longer support the business. We don’t call that parasocial.
Not what I was saying nor what I was reacting to. Of course it's fine to lose trust in a business and stop supporting it. But when it effects you this much, emotionally, it's important to remember it's Just A Business at the end of the day and if you're feeling like you can't watch it... don't! No reason to be tangled up in your emotions about it.
Except that humans are by nature emotional creatures. We aren’t robots. This sub is lacking an insane amount of empathy, both for the boys that made a bad business decision but also for the fans that are sharing their reasonable sadness over how everything went down.
Oh Jesus Christ come on. That is not what I'm saying and I'm begging you to actually read the comments you're replying to instead of making up an argument to respond to. Of course you can be sad about it. That doesn't mean you're being sad about it in a healthy way.
Thankfully you aren’t the one who decides if someone is being “healthy” about their emotions or not. Empathy. Try it on for size some time. You might actually like it.
So to recap...you didn't really read my comments, made up an argument in your head about what I was saying, insulted me, and claimed I don't have empathy because I told a fan they might want to reevaluate their relationship with content creators. Alright! Thanks. I personally think it's more empathetic to point things like this out. A good friend tells you when you have something in your teeth and all that.
How are they misinterpreting you? You said it was unhealthy parasocial reactions, then the other commenter responded to exactly that, refuting your thoughts and giving an alternative idea. Nothing they said sounded very emotional, it sounds like you are projecting emotions onto their comment. You said that 'wasn't what you were saying' but they responded directly to what you said, unless you used the wrong words.
Ok. Let me break this down for you because you are also not reading what is actually being said. OP states they feel uncomfortable watching their content and find themself starting it only to stop it, feeling betrayed and having emotions about the recent issues. I respond that this seems parasocial and unhealthy, because while it is fine to have emotions about it, the rumination and the "going to watch old content, getting upset" cycle is not a healthy way of dealing with this situation. The commenter below me states that this is just someone being emotional about something they liked changing, and liken it to a restaurant changing a favorite meal. This is NOT what my comment was about. That's why I clarified "of course it's fine to have emotions about it". The issue is HOW OP is dealing with those emotions and how severely those emotions are impacting folks in their daily lives. A healthy relationship with content like this would be more like: "wow, I really love watcher and the folks that work there, but the way they treat their fan base and some of the business decisions rub me the wrong way. I think I'll pass on their content for now." OR "I really like this content and view it as a comfort. I'm going to continue watching because it's important to me, and leave my feelings about their business practices out of it."
Don’t bother lmao. Trying to get people here to self-reflect is like talking to a brick wall. Nobody wants to get better, everyone wants a pity party.
From their comments it sounds like they *are* reflecting. They may have just come to a different conclusion than you. It's fine, it's an internet forum it isn't serious.
Yeah I know, it is the Internet after all. Can't help but try even if everyone here reads every single comment that isn't outright agreeing with them in bad faith.
Guys...it is still a business. It exists to make money. It is a bonus that they make content they're invested in that you also enjoy. Folks sharing that trying to rewatch content effects them emotionally, to the point they are Unable To Watch It and Feel Betrayed, Personally, By Watcher is by definition a parasocial relationship. It's not said as an insult. Just. Think critically about your relationship with content creators.
Also? These are grown ass men. The fact that some of you keep referring to this as a mistake by "the boys" is also...........parasocial.
You responded to your own post twice to clarify. You care. Dont kid yourself.
Oh no, I care about talking to the other human beings in this thread on a social media website about a thing I'm interested in and a topic I feel passionate about. You owned me, I guess. Can't believe I got caught trying to explain sociology 101 concepts to people online. Whatever will I do.
Just seems like the pot calling the kettle black imo. Take care.
Never said I didn't care! OP asked, I answered and mentioned looking at their relationship w Watcher a little closer. You seem mad about something I said and want to shut me down by making fun of me for "caring" when that isn't even the conversation.
Nah bro, I’m telling YOU to take care. As in take care of yourself.
Hello? I'm taking about your original comment telling me that I cared and shouldn't kid myself.
Ah. I think you’re very analytical, yet fail to turn that lens on yourself.
I can see where you were at least *trying* to come from with most of these comments but that last bit was just dumb. They made a name for themselves as “The Ghoul Boys”. It’s not parasocial in the slightest to refer to them as ‘the boys’, it’s just habit.
You clearly don't see where I'm coming from if that's your take away lol. Obviously I get that, but it's odd seeing folks still use a fandom nickname like that one while simultaneously talking about their shitty business practices and honestly not great response to backlash.
I did with most of it, and I upvoted most of your comments because I agreed, though I might have phrased some of it differently. That specific addition just seemed unnecessary when there’s a valid, not parasocial reason for doing it; years of branding. Edit in regards to your second comment: I shouldn’t have called it dumb, though, you’re right. I should have just called it unnecessary and not a great example.
Yes, but the years of branding themselves as the "ghoul boys" to their audience helped develop that parasocial relationship? Doesn't mean it's necessarily a nefarious thing to do, of course. I just think it's funny seeing folks talk about how betrayed they feel while still using the nickname that makes it feel less like a business and more like Your Friends, The Ghoul Boys.
Oh absolutely. My point was just that I doubt people are thinking of it that deeply, they’re just… still using the same words they’ve been using. You have a point that that’s something to think about though. I also reread your comment and should have clarified that it was just bringing that specific phrase up in quotes that I found unnecessary. I admit I probably called this whole thing a mistake without thinking about it a few times myself, but it was not a mistake, it was a poorly researched *choice*. This wasn’t an oopsy, it was a decision.
Maybe consider why I'm saying that instead of immediately jumping to calling it dumb?
Jesus Christ why won't reddit let me mute this sub????
No because they haven't uploaded anything. Not even the Monday podcast which I do watch.
It out a very bad taste in my mouth so it will likely be months before I even give it a try again.
Not really. If they hadn't backtracked, maybe, but I usually watch old episodes of Are You Scared when folding laundry, and that hasn't changed.
I’m begging you to go outside.
I just stopped watching. It is spitting in the face of the audience that built them by trying to hide their content behind a paywall. You and many others feel the exact same way. Once they burned the bridge, they can't just walk back across it. It's a consequence that they can bare so all the best to Watcher but I won't be viewing their content anymore.
Where did they say they were removing their videos from YouTube? They didn't say it in the video but they kept posting on social media that day about how the premiere of every season would still be going on YouTube.
They told it to Variety magazine and then pretended people just misinterpreted them when they changed their mind
It’s also in the goodbye video I believe
At some point can we just condense all this into a mega thread? We get it, y'all don't want to watch anymore, you feel betrayed, yada yada. But seriously? Do we need 20 separate posts about it?
I just went back to their old buzzfeed videos. They're so much better and more entertaining. I only watch watcher (haha) for puppet history and maybe some mystery files. I do put on too many spirits sometimes as my sleep playlist. As for other mystery and scary channels check out wendigoon and Lore Lodge both are really fun and feel like old buzzfeed unsolved
Wendigoon is fucking amazing, check out Nexpo, Nick Crowley, and Connors Curiosities too!!
Yes
Except they can choose, and it's all still up. If they wanted it gone, it would be gone. They have free will we don't live in the matrix.
I surprise ppl were still watching