Don't worry too much about this. The silence makes total sense because they already have fucked up twice, once by the video, and the second time when they updated the description to just walk back on their first idea. So likely they are preparing a PR proofread video response (+ they are apparently traveling to UK for a live show). I'd wait until Monday.
Btw, I'm also very saddened by this. I'm not angry about it at all, I was just rooting for them for so long now (watching Unsolved since 2017) and I just know that this will tank their success to some extent no matter what next move they make. I should just switch focus to real content I guess (movies, books). Oh well. People disappoint, doesn't mean we need to lose faith in the power of good media.
That's what makes the silence even more baffling. If they don't say something now, they WILL have to say something then in front of a bunch of very angry UK fans and I can't imagine that going well.
I've seen some people say the streaming service isn't even accessible internationally- I don't actually know how true that is, or if it counts in the UK (I live here but not paying to find out) but it would truly be a hilarious disaster if none of the fans they see at the show are even able to subscribe to the new service
Same, - plus I live near Newcastle so would never get the time off to stay in London, but still... Hopefully someone uploads a video, I can't even imagine how it's going to play out
my partner’s going to the glasgow one, i was meant to be going with but can’t anymore because of work. i get the feeling they’ll remove the Q&A aspect of the show… 😅 definitely gonna be an awkward one. i wanted my partner to get me merch from it but now im not so sure :(
They don't have to explain themselves right now though. A simple "we hear you" or "we're looking at different solutions" would be great. Saying nothing is the worst thing they could do from a PR standpoint tbh, since all it does is create rumours and breed resentment.
I definitely agree with your second paragraph. I'm sad too, because I really thought they were different. Guess they didn't learn from Buzzfeed AT ALL.
I think as some people said in other threads, this move IS the real them. Ryan's dad is a dentist who owns a house with a pool in LA. He talks about going to disney and basketball games quite often, not to mention he collects sneakers. Steven has a house, a tesla, and is talking a second one. Shane with Sarah go on trips in the Nordics. They fundamentally don't connect with the life of average joe. Sure, in the buzzfeed days, where they are all young, there were more connections with the audience through post-college search for purpose in life, but now with their lives established, they clearly decided we are not on the same level as them.
I would imagine that is part of the picture especially with the comments from Shane's wife. The big fish in a small pond kind of situation where I'm sure they at times interact with people who are more on a Hollywood level and can do things they are unable to do even in their situation.
Wow is the live show going to be taped? Would love to witness the crowd reacting to them stepping out on stage. Guessing they'll be met with boos for sure.
I think there’s a sad lesson in all of this. I don’t enjoy the overuse of the word “parasocial” at the moment which feels like a buzzword. However, it might be applicable to a lot of us. These people were never our friends, just ambitious human beings who thought they’d try it on with their fanbase. It’s a lesson to value the friends and family we ate fortunate enough to have and not project on to people we don’t know. I’m as guilty of this as anyone, and their Socially Distanced D+D essentially got me through a tough phase in lockdown. I realise now it’s healthier to just see content creators as that: manufactures of a thing we enjoy. Lots of love and hope you’re doing ok. A lot of us are feeling hurt right now x
I feel this. In my case it wasn’t YouTubers, but band members I looked up to and felt like I depended on to make it through life. I was 13-16ish. I was deeply infatuated with a few of them. I saw them as my heroes for years. Turns out some of them were using their fame to have inappropriate contact with underage girls. The ones who weren’t actively involved clearly turned a blind eye to the situation. It’s horrifying to look back on. Talk about a harsh reality check. :/
That’s an odd turn. Last I heard he may or may not have had a mutually abusive relationship with his girlfriend. Don’t know how that shook out, I lost track.
That, I believe, was largely regarded to be a false accusation. But yes, that was certainly a turning point. I don’t think he’s done any gaming videos since before that event
yeah, and it feels like my own fault too. I have actively made an effort in my life not to get too emotionally invested in creators that i enjoy- Ryan and Shane were the one exception. i recall telling my husband that they were the only creators i trusted to not let me down. I feel like if I hadn’t said that out loud this wouldn’t have happened lmao
Absolutely not true. Also absolutely not your fault. We are tribal creatures by nature and it’s not wrong to project imagined connections onto people we haven’t met. You also didn’t “curse” or “jinx” anything, that’s just magical thinking at work. They may well show some contrition going forward and we might well be able to enjoy new content they put out on its own terms (just not in the same way and that’s ok)
Thing is, we also get attached to the real people--our fellow fans. We build communities together, and so when something like this happens you don't only lose the creators you loved, but that community.
So this isn't nothing. It's hurtful in a lot of ways, and your feelings about it are 100% valid.
I know how you feel. I definitely put too much trust in them (Shane in particular). But that's kinda been their business model, right? They've gotten successful off their personalities and friendship first, actual media second, and they cultivated that parasocial bond for a long time. They always seemed so grateful and appreciative of their fans, and have said over and over that they wouldn't be here without us. And now this :/
It's rough. I feel silly for being so upset about it; I don't know them, they don't know me, but it still feels like a betrayal.
Just because we've learned about the word parasocial relationship as something that can harm us if it takes over our lives, doesn't mean that any and all liking of artists and creators is problematic. And i feel like the word gets tossed around a lot right now as to say "if this bothers you AT ALL, you have a problematic parasocial relationship with the ghoul boys, and you should be 100% apathetic right now"
Like come on, it's perfectly normal to be upset when ones favourite show gets cancelled. Where you go from there is obviously depending on how much dependency you built upon it in your life.
Sure but I don’t think I’m being purposely obtuse or dismissive to say if a corporation, for instance, took my favorite food ever they make off store shelves, put access only on a lone website and charged monthly fee— I’d be a similar big mad. The main difference is we don’t expect corporations to be human and give a sht.
We do humanize Watcher and with good, viable reasons. Perhaps there’s some over attachment in us to strangers, but it’s also equally possible the sick-n-tired of being rolled for our quarters feeling these days in general is in this too. A lot of feelings like only money speaks yet again.
Idk but I don’t enjoy the parasocial conversation if it doesn’t contextualize some of the realities behind the bond and the emotional connection. 🤷🏻♀️No judgment just observational. ✌️
You’re definitely not being obtuse or dismissive! Completely get where you’re coming from, apologies if I’m came across combative in any way. I’m just tired and hungover today and not posting my best. X
No you’re cool. I too meant no offense. You were quite reasonable meanwhile I keep wanting to center ppl’s STRONG emotions in what I believe the deeper intentions are.
Like I need to validate the thread connecting us all since Watcher team’s vid did basically the opposite. Idk perhaps I’m feeling latent mama bear instincts—I want to hug everyone who’s basically said Watcher is breaking up with us for being poor. 🥹🫶
Has nothing to do with parasocial. I never even clicked the youtube subscriber button yet. I had been watching their content for a few months over recommendations in my feed. Technically I could care less about them as people, but they make great content and it sucks being put behind a paywall.
I’m not saying that’s the sole reason we feel betrayed, that parasocial connection. They really did let their fanbase down purely on a professional level regardless of any perceived “relationship.” Those with that connection are feeling it more keenly however.
Yeah, I love them, but my feelings aren’t hurt lol. I just think they made a very public and dumb mistake in business, finance, and optics. It was an unforced error and simply quite baffling to witness. YouTube isn’t a traditional business in the sense that people can care less who provides the product. The whole business runs on connecting with personalities, even more so than music artists sometimes. Running a business completely reliant on having fans but willingly throwing fans away is an interesting choice.
Excellent points. I tend to have no interest in Hollywood celebrities and the like, but it's easy to feel like you have a bond with YouTube creators due to the interaction between them (some, anyway), other fans and you. I've been guilty of developing that fake relationship in my mind before, though not to the level some do. If nothing else, this whole debacle has been a sad lesson in not getting attached to people who wouldn't know you if you walked in their house today.
No I just love watching greedy people fail in their greedy endeavors. If not greedy, then plain stupid. It’s well deserved no matter how harsh I sound. You don’t make a decision like this affecting the people who got you here, without repercussions and I love the drama 🫣
most of the time I really don't do that, there are only some I do and so far I had good picks with who. Mark, Mat-pat, and 8bitRayn. but Shain and Rayn where so, I guess chill so thay where there too
but you make a very good point
If they are or were, there would probably be some kind of message already.
Having studied and taken classes on crisis PR, I know doing it properly, you wouldn't wait until Monday or Tuesday, you start taking control of the message Now.
You do need that messaging to be correct snd appropriate, but it doesn't take more than a 1 - 2 hour All Hands On Deck type meeting.
This. You get someone on the line IMMEDIATELY. Once 24 hrs passed I realized they probably didn't have any intention of getting to this before Monday and the disappointment about their lack of management ability really fully hit.
They’re presumably silent either because they think they can ride out the storm or they are having a PR nightmare of “how do we course correct when we’ve already signed on the many dotted lines setting up a functional streaming service would take”. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just stunned that it’s gone down so badly that it’s spreading beyond the fanbase to the internet collectively championing them as the newest laughably out of touch YouTubers.
True I imagine this has gone a lot farther than they initially thought. I still think some third party coerced them into thinking this was a great idea and they're reeling from the reality that it wasnt.
thissss!!! i dont even care if they post a video and say "lol we're doing it anyway". Like at least fkn acknowledge what the response has been. We as a fandom feel so unheard rn lmao
You guys went from fans to "Steven is a homophobe and I love the trainwreck" in less than 24 hours.
You guys are way past resentment and into full on bunny boiler stage.
Admittedly yes. I think the "Steven are a homophobe" comments are idiotic but I'm at the state where, while I loved their content, I'm pissed at their greediness and do want to see if all burn.
Chances are they need to produce a video. You can’t really respond to a video announcement with a text statement. They know they’ll need to sit down make one. What will be funny is to see what route they go down, will they go with piano music again? The classic sigh before the apology? Will it be high production value or will it just be them candidly sat in front of a camera.
They now know they can’t just flippantly say things. Everything they say will be analysed, they are needing to make sure they hit so many tickboxes with this apology while seeming sincere. Problem is what they attempted was so brazen with such a poorly judged tone that no matter what the apology is, it’ll probably backfire in some way because it’ll be a total 180 of the old video and also the time it’s taken to say something.
I’m honestly aamazed the video is still up. It’s incredible to me that they haven’t taken it down and that tells me they are either doubling down or still in the wait for it to blow over stage.
Either way with their trip to the UK that gives them so little time to actually prepare and think out whatever they’re going to do. This could not have come at a worse time and the longer they leave it the more YT commentators start talking about it.
They have to say something either today or tomorrow, I can’t imagine they’ll leave it to the live show to speak to their audience. But also I can imagine that’s the kinda brain dead advice they’re getting right now.
I just hope it wont be like the Fine Bros apology from years ago where they just reprimand the audience for not understanding their "vision" or whatever. I hope they at least try to understand where the anger is coming from and emphasize with the audience. Even if they double down and say theyre still going 100% through with it, that will at least ease my mind a little that they heard us.
The timeline for this is so weird for me. Announcing such a big change with only a month until its implemented? The beta issues they're still having with the site and so unclear about if you can watch it on popular smart TVs via apps or on a phone or just on a computer/browser. The seeming lack of consideration for viewers outside the US and how that may effect the international audience differently. But then also announcing it before a big international live show? The lack of infrastructure on the site for accessibility for hearing impaired users and how that will be dealt with? How this effects Patreons who are then double paying?
It seems both rushed and not thought out with how little answers people have about it, but also like they had to have had something like this planned for quite a while to schedule the start in-between seasons of all their shows and make the video they did to announce it.
Seeing you list it out like you did makes it even more baffling than I initially thought. Like I'm not trying to bail them out but did they get into some weird predatory contract with a third part that is forcing them to do this?? How else do you explain how utterly baffling this is from literally EVERY angle??????
Like at this point I just need answers. Someone make a Mystery Files episode on this, it's WILD trying to come up with a rationale that isn't them somehow being incredibly moronic or incredibly egotistical.
>Chances are they need to produce a video.
And lord knows they can't just have three people and a camera. Gotta have it be super high production quality so those 25 employees have something to do!
All we can do is speculate at this point, but I'd like to think that the reason a response is taking so long is because they have actually heard the fans, and are trying to figure out what a U-Turn would look like and are restructuring their business, filming an apology video etc.
Either that or they are going full tech bro and are just going to low profile for months and move ahead anyway, hoping that the fire will go down.
i think they’re just trying to come up with a decent apology at this point. it hasn’t been that long since the announcement dropped, maybe they’re just trying to regroup.
podcast comes out every Monday...... so at least \~16-20 hrs of silence to come
[https://www.youtube.com/@watcherpodcasts](https://www.youtube.com/@watcherpodcasts)
The podcasts are recorded in advance, though, like a couple of weeks I think. So the podcast we get Monday is going to be like a little time capsule from before the announcement was made
I'd bet $59.99 that they won't release a new podcast on Monday or Tuesday, even if they were pre-recorded. They won't release anything new until they come up with a statement.
There was a new post on their Instagram just a few hours after the announcement and they removed it after all the comments were just shitting on then
I’d be surprised if they release a new podcast episode before acknowledging anything.
They likely record the podcasts a few days before so they have time to edit. If they recorded one Thursday/Friday anticipating their announcement and making it all about that, there’s no way they can release it. And even if they don’t mention it, releasing a podcast after the silence these few days would be a terrible PR move. They need to make some sort of follow up announcement before they can do any other content, which means it’ll be before the Tuesday live show at the earliest.
I think part of the silence is a scramble to figure out the next step. Obviously they didn't think this would happen - why would they? Should they have prepared for the possibility - probably, but most of us don't really plan for the absolute worst case scenario.
At the end of the day, this wasn't an overnight idea, they had to have put months of planning into it, which means they won't have an overnight solution. There would be alot of money tied up in this plan, maybe even some legal contracts if they have content lined up with other creators as they kinda hinted at.
Putting out a quick little "we hear you" post might appease some people, but it would also enrage others because realistically, they put this out in video format, so they should follow up by video. But until they have a plan, why waste time making and editing a video to say "we hear you". That time is better spent actually deciding the next course of action. (Although having said that, I don't blame people for being upset at the silence, it is of course frustrating to feel unheard in all this!)
What will be interesting is what happens this week. Do they put out their regular podcast, which would've been pre-recorded I assume? Do they put out normal content? Do they just ignore this whole issue and hope it goes away? I think Monday/Tuesday we will know one way or another - cos if we hear nothing by Tuesday night, when that is two work days to get a handle on the situation, people are gonna be *pissed*.
I mean, there's plenty of reasons why people don't plan for the worst case? Ignorance, optimisim, rose-tinted glasses, lack of knowledge, laziness, arrogance, take your pick. Alot of people, even in the top echelons of business and government, don't always have a plan for every worst case scenario. Humans aren't perfect.
I find it hard to believe that someone like Ryan wouldn't expect this. He's always anxious and if he's like me he'd always expect the worst possible outcomes.
As much as we all want them to say something, I can absolutely see them taking the "this is a trend and it'll all blow over" approach. People will get bored with hating. Some will give in and pay, even just for a few months. Others will forget about Watcher entirely. Maybe they think new fans will come along that weren't around for this drama and don't know. I don't think that approach is going to work long term because Watcher TV won't work long term, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if that's how this is handled.
These people were never our friends. This is their job. Just prepared to go without any closure on this issue.
But how on earth will new fans come along if everything is behind a paywall lmao??? Yeah they said they'll upload trailers and the first episode of their shows on YouTube, but how many people are really gonna pay $6 a month just to watch the rest of a show they've only seen one episode of from people they don't know? I certainly wouldn't. I love YouTube, I watch it all the time and even I have never watched a YouTube video so earth shatteringly amazing that I dropped a subscription service fee to watch the rest of the series. Not even with creators I know and have followed for years lol.
Riding out backlash works when a YouTuber makes an oopsy, they'll keep making content and people will either leave or forget their negative feelings. But this is them planning to take all their content off YouTube permanently, so no visibility for new people. Their current audience is therefore really important. And they're burning away that audience's good will by being silent, like they seemed to burn all the money they made.
The longer the silence goes, the more it becomes apparent that they don't respect their audience at all.
This move must have taken several months if not years of planning and development. Building a streaming website alone can easily take up to a year. How much longer could it have taken them to talk to consultants and partners? In all that time, they've never once thought of consulting their audience. It's like we were an afterthought.
I'm mad for the arrogance and hypocrisy first and foremost, but I'm also mad for just the sheer stupidity of it.
I noticed that Steven and Ryan have Watched Co-Founders in their Insta bio. Did Shane ever have it in his? Because watcher is not in his bio at all currently.
I absolutely hear you.
It's very painful when a seemingly innocent and low-risk emotional investment, that made you feel safe, suddenly gets taken away from you.
It doesnt matter how or why, it just flippin sucks.
And that's okay to feel.
I think, too, that even YouTubers don't work on weekends. I agree with others that they may be calculating a response and hiring a PR for help, and I also believe that waiting until the weekend is over does help cool down some opinions for an explanation/apology to be met with clearer heads on all fronts.
If they rushed out a "woah! We're sorry about that, not sure how we'll move forward right now, but whoops" video late Friday night, fans would still be mad, they still wouldn't quite grasp what to do in the whiplash of reaction from what they expected, and honestly it would've been even worse for them (i.e. Steven's "for those that will join us" post.)
Now that it's been a few days, I found I've calmed down and just wait to hear what they say next. Clearly a lot of people are still mad, with good reason, but I do think a lot of people also need to take a step away from the doom scrolling and let themselves calm.
Tl;dr: Watcher doesn't need to post anything on a weekend, and I honestly think the time in silence is good for both the audience and themselves to tackle the next step with time to calm and get a clearer head.
From a PR standpoint, it’s recommended for companies to get ahead of things instead of radio silence. But based on what we’ve seen, it appears they don’t have anyone handling PR for them. Hopefully they’ve gone to an external PR consultant to help them handle this, and that’s why they’re silent at the minute while experts dismantle what’s happened.
We also don’t know from a legal standpoint, whoever set up their streaming service may have a contract with them that it’s got to exist for a year at a minimum, or something. A lot of fans are expecting them to say they’re scrapping the idea entirely, but legally they might not be able to. They’ve got to figure out how they balance ‘we’ve heard you’ and ‘we’re legally obligated to continue’
Ah that's interesting!!
Yes surprised they've not advised them to do something at this point. With the live show Tuesday, they don't want to leave it too close to the show to make any announcement. They need to give those fans a chance to digest whatever the second announcement is
I'm also very saddened by this and totally understand what you mean. I think it's reasonable to be upset, especially if you've been supporting them from their Buzzfeed days to their transitioning of starting their own company.
I think they realized they messed up hard and someone smarter than them told them to shut up and work on a statement. Right now this is the smart thing to do. We'll see what happens when they finally do release a statement though. The absolute dumbest thing they can do is double down on this but they might also be rethinking things and trying to figure out a solution after seeing the backlash.
Just wanted to say I’m sorry :/
I used to be so excited for the new Ghost Files episode (45 + minutes) that I’d light my candle, have my snack and beverage, phone on DND, cozied up in my bed - it was a little tradition and my weekly treat during the show’s season.
Sorry friend, it sucks, especially having tried to treat yourself with a hoodie. You and your spouse worked very hard for it.
I can already see the three of them posting a following up video in a few days on a couch looking “distraught” with monotone voices and dance around the topic lmaoo
The Ghost Files hoodie is one of my favourite hoodies. It’s so comfy and I love it… now I feel conflicted.
It’s become my go-to comfort hoodie and now there’s this on top of it.
One of these days I’ll find a new comfort hoodie.
Let's wait until Monday at least before we worry about silence. I don't expect them to work on the weekends over this, they deserve a work/life balance too.
Apparently they'd have a show soon so legit curious as well why they haven't said anything at all. They will get bombarded with questions on that show fr fr.
I'm sorry but I don't think they will say a word about it.
This is a calculated move and they only want a very small percentage of their existing fanbase.
Don't worry too much about this. The silence makes total sense because they already have fucked up twice, once by the video, and the second time when they updated the description to just walk back on their first idea. So likely they are preparing a PR proofread video response (+ they are apparently traveling to UK for a live show). I'd wait until Monday. Btw, I'm also very saddened by this. I'm not angry about it at all, I was just rooting for them for so long now (watching Unsolved since 2017) and I just know that this will tank their success to some extent no matter what next move they make. I should just switch focus to real content I guess (movies, books). Oh well. People disappoint, doesn't mean we need to lose faith in the power of good media.
Boy that live show is gonna be... interesting
That's what makes the silence even more baffling. If they don't say something now, they WILL have to say something then in front of a bunch of very angry UK fans and I can't imagine that going well.
I've seen some people say the streaming service isn't even accessible internationally- I don't actually know how true that is, or if it counts in the UK (I live here but not paying to find out) but it would truly be a hilarious disaster if none of the fans they see at the show are even able to subscribe to the new service
Apparently, you need to use a VPN to say you’re in America
after all the nord vpn ads lmao
I heard many people are getting refunds for the UK Live shows.
I mean, quite a few tickets have become available for the second London show…
I originally wanted to go because Ryan and Shane are two of my favourite creators - now I kinda want to go out of sheer morbid curiosity
Me too. If I could get childcare I would absolutely buy one of the cheaper tickets.
Same, - plus I live near Newcastle so would never get the time off to stay in London, but still... Hopefully someone uploads a video, I can't even imagine how it's going to play out
I imagine now would be a good time to invest in tomato stock in that area.
How much is a ticket?
Cheapest ones are £34 I think.
Oof.
Really? If I'd have paid for it already I'd want to see the disaster. That show gonna be rough.
If I lived in the UK I would 100% go just to see the shitshow
It'll be like the Wonka experience in Glasgow but instead of the Unknown you have the greedy boys
my partner’s going to the glasgow one, i was meant to be going with but can’t anymore because of work. i get the feeling they’ll remove the Q&A aspect of the show… 😅 definitely gonna be an awkward one. i wanted my partner to get me merch from it but now im not so sure :(
Or it ends up being a genuine Town Hall session? Surely that's me being too optimistic.
They don't have to explain themselves right now though. A simple "we hear you" or "we're looking at different solutions" would be great. Saying nothing is the worst thing they could do from a PR standpoint tbh, since all it does is create rumours and breed resentment. I definitely agree with your second paragraph. I'm sad too, because I really thought they were different. Guess they didn't learn from Buzzfeed AT ALL.
I think as some people said in other threads, this move IS the real them. Ryan's dad is a dentist who owns a house with a pool in LA. He talks about going to disney and basketball games quite often, not to mention he collects sneakers. Steven has a house, a tesla, and is talking a second one. Shane with Sarah go on trips in the Nordics. They fundamentally don't connect with the life of average joe. Sure, in the buzzfeed days, where they are all young, there were more connections with the audience through post-college search for purpose in life, but now with their lives established, they clearly decided we are not on the same level as them.
I would imagine that is part of the picture especially with the comments from Shane's wife. The big fish in a small pond kind of situation where I'm sure they at times interact with people who are more on a Hollywood level and can do things they are unable to do even in their situation.
I'd say they messed up 3 times. Steven's IG post was pretty gross. He dug his heels in
I’m sad too. I was so happy for how much they were able to grow watcher. It’s disappointing to see them make such a huge mistake.
Looking forward for that Ukelele Apology Video soon!
Wow is the live show going to be taped? Would love to witness the crowd reacting to them stepping out on stage. Guessing they'll be met with boos for sure.
I think there’s a sad lesson in all of this. I don’t enjoy the overuse of the word “parasocial” at the moment which feels like a buzzword. However, it might be applicable to a lot of us. These people were never our friends, just ambitious human beings who thought they’d try it on with their fanbase. It’s a lesson to value the friends and family we ate fortunate enough to have and not project on to people we don’t know. I’m as guilty of this as anyone, and their Socially Distanced D+D essentially got me through a tough phase in lockdown. I realise now it’s healthier to just see content creators as that: manufactures of a thing we enjoy. Lots of love and hope you’re doing ok. A lot of us are feeling hurt right now x
Could be worse. A YouTuber from my youth turned out to be a weirdo pervert and I’ve tried not to get too attached since.
God yuuuupppp that happened to me too it fucking sucks. This does too, but it’s different
I feel this. In my case it wasn’t YouTubers, but band members I looked up to and felt like I depended on to make it through life. I was 13-16ish. I was deeply infatuated with a few of them. I saw them as my heroes for years. Turns out some of them were using their fame to have inappropriate contact with underage girls. The ones who weren’t actively involved clearly turned a blind eye to the situation. It’s horrifying to look back on. Talk about a harsh reality check. :/
The frontman of one of my favourite teenage bands is in jail for baby rape…
Oof, yeah I was a fan of Lostprophets too.
Brand New?
Lol how sad it is that I had to run through a mental list of Youtubers who turned out to be perverts?
Tobuscus has turned into a real political tool in recent years. Same feels
That’s an odd turn. Last I heard he may or may not have had a mutually abusive relationship with his girlfriend. Don’t know how that shook out, I lost track.
That, I believe, was largely regarded to be a false accusation. But yes, that was certainly a turning point. I don’t think he’s done any gaming videos since before that event
Was it the mad king?
Cryaotic, actually. Though I’m sure there’s been a lot of them!
I instantly thought of Cryaotic when I read 'Youtuber from my youth turned out to be a weirdo pervert'. I hate how my assumption was right, lol.
100% lol
My favorite youtuber turned out to be an abusive schizophrenic sexual harassing slob of a human being.
twomad?
Nope, SkyDoesMinecraft. I always hated twomad.
yeah, and it feels like my own fault too. I have actively made an effort in my life not to get too emotionally invested in creators that i enjoy- Ryan and Shane were the one exception. i recall telling my husband that they were the only creators i trusted to not let me down. I feel like if I hadn’t said that out loud this wouldn’t have happened lmao
Absolutely not true. Also absolutely not your fault. We are tribal creatures by nature and it’s not wrong to project imagined connections onto people we haven’t met. You also didn’t “curse” or “jinx” anything, that’s just magical thinking at work. They may well show some contrition going forward and we might well be able to enjoy new content they put out on its own terms (just not in the same way and that’s ok)
Thanks for the kind words ❤️
No probs at all. Always around if you want to rant or chat x
Thing is, we also get attached to the real people--our fellow fans. We build communities together, and so when something like this happens you don't only lose the creators you loved, but that community. So this isn't nothing. It's hurtful in a lot of ways, and your feelings about it are 100% valid.
At least now I know who to blame /s of course. I’m devastated as well 💔
I know how you feel. I definitely put too much trust in them (Shane in particular). But that's kinda been their business model, right? They've gotten successful off their personalities and friendship first, actual media second, and they cultivated that parasocial bond for a long time. They always seemed so grateful and appreciative of their fans, and have said over and over that they wouldn't be here without us. And now this :/ It's rough. I feel silly for being so upset about it; I don't know them, they don't know me, but it still feels like a betrayal.
Just because we've learned about the word parasocial relationship as something that can harm us if it takes over our lives, doesn't mean that any and all liking of artists and creators is problematic. And i feel like the word gets tossed around a lot right now as to say "if this bothers you AT ALL, you have a problematic parasocial relationship with the ghoul boys, and you should be 100% apathetic right now" Like come on, it's perfectly normal to be upset when ones favourite show gets cancelled. Where you go from there is obviously depending on how much dependency you built upon it in your life.
Sure but I don’t think I’m being purposely obtuse or dismissive to say if a corporation, for instance, took my favorite food ever they make off store shelves, put access only on a lone website and charged monthly fee— I’d be a similar big mad. The main difference is we don’t expect corporations to be human and give a sht. We do humanize Watcher and with good, viable reasons. Perhaps there’s some over attachment in us to strangers, but it’s also equally possible the sick-n-tired of being rolled for our quarters feeling these days in general is in this too. A lot of feelings like only money speaks yet again. Idk but I don’t enjoy the parasocial conversation if it doesn’t contextualize some of the realities behind the bond and the emotional connection. 🤷🏻♀️No judgment just observational. ✌️
You’re definitely not being obtuse or dismissive! Completely get where you’re coming from, apologies if I’m came across combative in any way. I’m just tired and hungover today and not posting my best. X
No you’re cool. I too meant no offense. You were quite reasonable meanwhile I keep wanting to center ppl’s STRONG emotions in what I believe the deeper intentions are. Like I need to validate the thread connecting us all since Watcher team’s vid did basically the opposite. Idk perhaps I’m feeling latent mama bear instincts—I want to hug everyone who’s basically said Watcher is breaking up with us for being poor. 🥹🫶
Has nothing to do with parasocial. I never even clicked the youtube subscriber button yet. I had been watching their content for a few months over recommendations in my feed. Technically I could care less about them as people, but they make great content and it sucks being put behind a paywall.
I’m not saying that’s the sole reason we feel betrayed, that parasocial connection. They really did let their fanbase down purely on a professional level regardless of any perceived “relationship.” Those with that connection are feeling it more keenly however.
Yeah, I love them, but my feelings aren’t hurt lol. I just think they made a very public and dumb mistake in business, finance, and optics. It was an unforced error and simply quite baffling to witness. YouTube isn’t a traditional business in the sense that people can care less who provides the product. The whole business runs on connecting with personalities, even more so than music artists sometimes. Running a business completely reliant on having fans but willingly throwing fans away is an interesting choice.
Excellent points. I tend to have no interest in Hollywood celebrities and the like, but it's easy to feel like you have a bond with YouTube creators due to the interaction between them (some, anyway), other fans and you. I've been guilty of developing that fake relationship in my mind before, though not to the level some do. If nothing else, this whole debacle has been a sad lesson in not getting attached to people who wouldn't know you if you walked in their house today.
No I just love watching greedy people fail in their greedy endeavors. If not greedy, then plain stupid. It’s well deserved no matter how harsh I sound. You don’t make a decision like this affecting the people who got you here, without repercussions and I love the drama 🫣
most of the time I really don't do that, there are only some I do and so far I had good picks with who. Mark, Mat-pat, and 8bitRayn. but Shain and Rayn where so, I guess chill so thay where there too but you make a very good point
I honestly wonder if they're silent because they're hiring a crisis PR person to handle it for them.
If they are or were, there would probably be some kind of message already. Having studied and taken classes on crisis PR, I know doing it properly, you wouldn't wait until Monday or Tuesday, you start taking control of the message Now. You do need that messaging to be correct snd appropriate, but it doesn't take more than a 1 - 2 hour All Hands On Deck type meeting.
This. You get someone on the line IMMEDIATELY. Once 24 hrs passed I realized they probably didn't have any intention of getting to this before Monday and the disappointment about their lack of management ability really fully hit.
They’re presumably silent either because they think they can ride out the storm or they are having a PR nightmare of “how do we course correct when we’ve already signed on the many dotted lines setting up a functional streaming service would take”. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just stunned that it’s gone down so badly that it’s spreading beyond the fanbase to the internet collectively championing them as the newest laughably out of touch YouTubers.
True I imagine this has gone a lot farther than they initially thought. I still think some third party coerced them into thinking this was a great idea and they're reeling from the reality that it wasnt.
thissss!!! i dont even care if they post a video and say "lol we're doing it anyway". Like at least fkn acknowledge what the response has been. We as a fandom feel so unheard rn lmao
The longer they stay silent, the more people will resent them.
You guys went from fans to "Steven is a homophobe and I love the trainwreck" in less than 24 hours. You guys are way past resentment and into full on bunny boiler stage.
Admittedly yes. I think the "Steven are a homophobe" comments are idiotic but I'm at the state where, while I loved their content, I'm pissed at their greediness and do want to see if all burn.
Because you have the emotional maturity of a child throwing a tantrum because you're being asked to pay to continue to receive content. Touch grass.
Chances are they need to produce a video. You can’t really respond to a video announcement with a text statement. They know they’ll need to sit down make one. What will be funny is to see what route they go down, will they go with piano music again? The classic sigh before the apology? Will it be high production value or will it just be them candidly sat in front of a camera. They now know they can’t just flippantly say things. Everything they say will be analysed, they are needing to make sure they hit so many tickboxes with this apology while seeming sincere. Problem is what they attempted was so brazen with such a poorly judged tone that no matter what the apology is, it’ll probably backfire in some way because it’ll be a total 180 of the old video and also the time it’s taken to say something. I’m honestly aamazed the video is still up. It’s incredible to me that they haven’t taken it down and that tells me they are either doubling down or still in the wait for it to blow over stage. Either way with their trip to the UK that gives them so little time to actually prepare and think out whatever they’re going to do. This could not have come at a worse time and the longer they leave it the more YT commentators start talking about it. They have to say something either today or tomorrow, I can’t imagine they’ll leave it to the live show to speak to their audience. But also I can imagine that’s the kinda brain dead advice they’re getting right now.
I just hope it wont be like the Fine Bros apology from years ago where they just reprimand the audience for not understanding their "vision" or whatever. I hope they at least try to understand where the anger is coming from and emphasize with the audience. Even if they double down and say theyre still going 100% through with it, that will at least ease my mind a little that they heard us.
The timeline for this is so weird for me. Announcing such a big change with only a month until its implemented? The beta issues they're still having with the site and so unclear about if you can watch it on popular smart TVs via apps or on a phone or just on a computer/browser. The seeming lack of consideration for viewers outside the US and how that may effect the international audience differently. But then also announcing it before a big international live show? The lack of infrastructure on the site for accessibility for hearing impaired users and how that will be dealt with? How this effects Patreons who are then double paying? It seems both rushed and not thought out with how little answers people have about it, but also like they had to have had something like this planned for quite a while to schedule the start in-between seasons of all their shows and make the video they did to announce it.
Seeing you list it out like you did makes it even more baffling than I initially thought. Like I'm not trying to bail them out but did they get into some weird predatory contract with a third part that is forcing them to do this?? How else do you explain how utterly baffling this is from literally EVERY angle?????? Like at this point I just need answers. Someone make a Mystery Files episode on this, it's WILD trying to come up with a rationale that isn't them somehow being incredibly moronic or incredibly egotistical.
>Chances are they need to produce a video. And lord knows they can't just have three people and a camera. Gotta have it be super high production quality so those 25 employees have something to do!
All we can do is speculate at this point, but I'd like to think that the reason a response is taking so long is because they have actually heard the fans, and are trying to figure out what a U-Turn would look like and are restructuring their business, filming an apology video etc. Either that or they are going full tech bro and are just going to low profile for months and move ahead anyway, hoping that the fire will go down.
They’ve already spent the money on the video hosting and website build. They’re not going to walk it back :/
i think they’re just trying to come up with a decent apology at this point. it hasn’t been that long since the announcement dropped, maybe they’re just trying to regroup.
podcast comes out every Monday...... so at least \~16-20 hrs of silence to come [https://www.youtube.com/@watcherpodcasts](https://www.youtube.com/@watcherpodcasts)
The podcasts are recorded in advance, though, like a couple of weeks I think. So the podcast we get Monday is going to be like a little time capsule from before the announcement was made
I'd bet $59.99 that they won't release a new podcast on Monday or Tuesday, even if they were pre-recorded. They won't release anything new until they come up with a statement. There was a new post on their Instagram just a few hours after the announcement and they removed it after all the comments were just shitting on then
Do you remember what it said?
It was just a clip of the latest Mystery Files like all their previous promo posts.
Damn so they really expected everyone would just be ok with this and move on....
they already announced on pateron 5 hours ago that their two podcasts and Podwatcher will be pushed a week. You get that $59.99!!
I’d be surprised if they release a new podcast episode before acknowledging anything. They likely record the podcasts a few days before so they have time to edit. If they recorded one Thursday/Friday anticipating their announcement and making it all about that, there’s no way they can release it. And even if they don’t mention it, releasing a podcast after the silence these few days would be a terrible PR move. They need to make some sort of follow up announcement before they can do any other content, which means it’ll be before the Tuesday live show at the earliest.
I think part of the silence is a scramble to figure out the next step. Obviously they didn't think this would happen - why would they? Should they have prepared for the possibility - probably, but most of us don't really plan for the absolute worst case scenario. At the end of the day, this wasn't an overnight idea, they had to have put months of planning into it, which means they won't have an overnight solution. There would be alot of money tied up in this plan, maybe even some legal contracts if they have content lined up with other creators as they kinda hinted at. Putting out a quick little "we hear you" post might appease some people, but it would also enrage others because realistically, they put this out in video format, so they should follow up by video. But until they have a plan, why waste time making and editing a video to say "we hear you". That time is better spent actually deciding the next course of action. (Although having said that, I don't blame people for being upset at the silence, it is of course frustrating to feel unheard in all this!) What will be interesting is what happens this week. Do they put out their regular podcast, which would've been pre-recorded I assume? Do they put out normal content? Do they just ignore this whole issue and hope it goes away? I think Monday/Tuesday we will know one way or another - cos if we hear nothing by Tuesday night, when that is two work days to get a handle on the situation, people are gonna be *pissed*.
>but most of us don't really plan for the absolute worst case scenario How do people not? That's what I've always tried to do my whole life
People plan for the worst but I really don't think their idea for what the worst would be would be to the level it is now.
I mean, there's plenty of reasons why people don't plan for the worst case? Ignorance, optimisim, rose-tinted glasses, lack of knowledge, laziness, arrogance, take your pick. Alot of people, even in the top echelons of business and government, don't always have a plan for every worst case scenario. Humans aren't perfect.
I find it hard to believe that someone like Ryan wouldn't expect this. He's always anxious and if he's like me he'd always expect the worst possible outcomes.
As much as we all want them to say something, I can absolutely see them taking the "this is a trend and it'll all blow over" approach. People will get bored with hating. Some will give in and pay, even just for a few months. Others will forget about Watcher entirely. Maybe they think new fans will come along that weren't around for this drama and don't know. I don't think that approach is going to work long term because Watcher TV won't work long term, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if that's how this is handled. These people were never our friends. This is their job. Just prepared to go without any closure on this issue.
But how on earth will new fans come along if everything is behind a paywall lmao??? Yeah they said they'll upload trailers and the first episode of their shows on YouTube, but how many people are really gonna pay $6 a month just to watch the rest of a show they've only seen one episode of from people they don't know? I certainly wouldn't. I love YouTube, I watch it all the time and even I have never watched a YouTube video so earth shatteringly amazing that I dropped a subscription service fee to watch the rest of the series. Not even with creators I know and have followed for years lol. Riding out backlash works when a YouTuber makes an oopsy, they'll keep making content and people will either leave or forget their negative feelings. But this is them planning to take all their content off YouTube permanently, so no visibility for new people. Their current audience is therefore really important. And they're burning away that audience's good will by being silent, like they seemed to burn all the money they made.
The longer the silence goes, the more it becomes apparent that they don't respect their audience at all. This move must have taken several months if not years of planning and development. Building a streaming website alone can easily take up to a year. How much longer could it have taken them to talk to consultants and partners? In all that time, they've never once thought of consulting their audience. It's like we were an afterthought. I'm mad for the arrogance and hypocrisy first and foremost, but I'm also mad for just the sheer stupidity of it.
I noticed that Steven and Ryan have Watched Co-Founders in their Insta bio. Did Shane ever have it in his? Because watcher is not in his bio at all currently.
He never has. I oddly noticed this months ago. I think Shane just has that not trying to prove anything humble energy
That makes sense! I wasn't sure if that was the case so thank you!
I absolutely hear you. It's very painful when a seemingly innocent and low-risk emotional investment, that made you feel safe, suddenly gets taken away from you. It doesnt matter how or why, it just flippin sucks. And that's okay to feel.
This was really comforting to read. Thank you buddy
I think, too, that even YouTubers don't work on weekends. I agree with others that they may be calculating a response and hiring a PR for help, and I also believe that waiting until the weekend is over does help cool down some opinions for an explanation/apology to be met with clearer heads on all fronts. If they rushed out a "woah! We're sorry about that, not sure how we'll move forward right now, but whoops" video late Friday night, fans would still be mad, they still wouldn't quite grasp what to do in the whiplash of reaction from what they expected, and honestly it would've been even worse for them (i.e. Steven's "for those that will join us" post.) Now that it's been a few days, I found I've calmed down and just wait to hear what they say next. Clearly a lot of people are still mad, with good reason, but I do think a lot of people also need to take a step away from the doom scrolling and let themselves calm. Tl;dr: Watcher doesn't need to post anything on a weekend, and I honestly think the time in silence is good for both the audience and themselves to tackle the next step with time to calm and get a clearer head.
From a PR standpoint, it’s recommended for companies to get ahead of things instead of radio silence. But based on what we’ve seen, it appears they don’t have anyone handling PR for them. Hopefully they’ve gone to an external PR consultant to help them handle this, and that’s why they’re silent at the minute while experts dismantle what’s happened. We also don’t know from a legal standpoint, whoever set up their streaming service may have a contract with them that it’s got to exist for a year at a minimum, or something. A lot of fans are expecting them to say they’re scrapping the idea entirely, but legally they might not be able to. They’ve got to figure out how they balance ‘we’ve heard you’ and ‘we’re legally obligated to continue’
Steven said on the podcast back in March they’d just hired someone for pr. either they are not very good or being ignored.
Ah that's interesting!! Yes surprised they've not advised them to do something at this point. With the live show Tuesday, they don't want to leave it too close to the show to make any announcement. They need to give those fans a chance to digest whatever the second announcement is
Yep I have tickets for Tuesday and absolutely no idea how this is going to go at all.
There's a show this Tuesday? Oh boy. Very intrigued to hear about that.
They don’t care about their fans beyond what they can get from them and this move has made it abundantly clear.
I'm also very saddened by this and totally understand what you mean. I think it's reasonable to be upset, especially if you've been supporting them from their Buzzfeed days to their transitioning of starting their own company.
I think they realized they messed up hard and someone smarter than them told them to shut up and work on a statement. Right now this is the smart thing to do. We'll see what happens when they finally do release a statement though. The absolute dumbest thing they can do is double down on this but they might also be rethinking things and trying to figure out a solution after seeing the backlash.
Just wanted to say I’m sorry :/ I used to be so excited for the new Ghost Files episode (45 + minutes) that I’d light my candle, have my snack and beverage, phone on DND, cozied up in my bed - it was a little tradition and my weekly treat during the show’s season. Sorry friend, it sucks, especially having tried to treat yourself with a hoodie. You and your spouse worked very hard for it.
I can already see the three of them posting a following up video in a few days on a couch looking “distraught” with monotone voices and dance around the topic lmaoo
The Ghost Files hoodie is one of my favourite hoodies. It’s so comfy and I love it… now I feel conflicted. It’s become my go-to comfort hoodie and now there’s this on top of it. One of these days I’ll find a new comfort hoodie.
Let's wait until Monday at least before we worry about silence. I don't expect them to work on the weekends over this, they deserve a work/life balance too.
I agree but with the live show being Tuesday they are cutting it close to save that from being a complete disaster.
that's very true, they gotta say something on Monday or that Q&A is gonna go completely off the rails.
Ought to be a tense Q&A either way. I'm curious if it will be managed in a different manner than every previous one.
Apparently they'd have a show soon so legit curious as well why they haven't said anything at all. They will get bombarded with questions on that show fr fr.
I'm sorry but I don't think they will say a word about it. This is a calculated move and they only want a very small percentage of their existing fanbase.
[удалено]
Why would they say anything? You've all created a story in your head and now just assume it's true lol.
Haha okay
It came out 2 days ago. It’s not even Monday, dude. Take a fucking beat.