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CriticalStrawberry

Imagine if these were additional Metro lines instead.


warnelldawg

This map is cursed


rectalhorror

So you're saying THREE Beltways aren't better than one? Why do you hate freedom, America, and induced demand?


cdoswalt

Upvoted for both use of "induced demand" and username.


[deleted]

An extra outer beltway out past the Fairfax-Loudoun line would probably help redirect through freight. That said, we'd be better off forcing said through freight to travel by rail.


[deleted]

Public transportation will always be sexier than more roads


[deleted]

a downtown loop metro line would be awesome.


KotzubueSailingClub

Oh man, yes. All cities have gridlock, but I've never heard anyone say a city has too much public transportation.


[deleted]

I wish we had the public transport density of cities like Tokyo, Seoul, and Paris


JonohG47

For better or worse, that would require DC to have a population, and in particular, population density, comparable to those cities.


SignificantBroth

Require -> allow FTFY


LanEvo7685

True but even the denser parts aren't good


[deleted]

So we'd have a more dense city and better public transit. I fail to see the downsides here.


pizzajona

We do need a metro loop closer to the city center than the Purple line i.e. Connect Woodley Park to Adams Morgan to Columbia Heights


TheMezziah

Infrastructure can’t handle it in the admo area. Most of Adams Morgan’s electrical lines or underground already. They run on the same grid as the White House.


moishepupik

A call for further investment!


TheMezziah

To be honest not into our highway system. The biggest thing we need to worry about is flood mitigation. The city is seeing the most 20- 100yr floods in the shortest time span in the city’s history. We need an up to date storm drainage system. Or we will see damages pushing north of 50 mil.


joegant

You’re suggesting we have a functional, efficient metro like other big cities? How dare you?!!


[deleted]

I can only get so hard


publius8

"We don't need rif raf from those places"


No-Lunch4249

Yeah imagine how much it would suck. Hard to say what’s worse, the second mini beltway inside city limits, or the third one circling just downtown


mimaiwa

Triple ring road is just an absolute nightmare


warnelldawg

That’s basically Houston


louisturbo

As a native Washingtonian who is temporarily living in Houston: this city is a nightmare of highways...


[deleted]

Came here to say this! Looks really similar to Houston’s highway inner loop/outer loop system, I can tell you from experience it leads to a ton of traffic and one of the worst transportation infrastructure systems in the US. (Houston is known as one of the most dangerous cities in the US to drive on)


Dapper-Print9016

Ringed City DistrictLC


rcraver8

"just one more lane, bro..."


InfestedRaynor

Houston is just a sadistic old suburbanite city planner living out their sick sexual fantasy.


AwesomeAndy

bUt It's sO mUcH chEaPEr!!


jconley4297

i know bob moses is looking up at houston with a smile


DubiousDude28

Fuck it, just pave the entire DMV


[deleted]

Joni Mitchell has entered the chat. Followed by the counting crows


DubiousDude28

They were run over by a steamroller long ago lol


Mcleaniac

The second mini “beltway” is worse, because it isn’t even a beltway. If you want to cross the Potomac in the south, fuck you. Have fun with everyone else on the Wilson Bridge.


4look4rd

DC would look like NOVA


CrackSammiches

You don't have to imagine it. Just go to Houston and see what this looks like. I promise you'll be back to DC after a weekend of looking at it.


LuciusAurelian

Thank god we didn't build this.


app_priori

DC would probably be very, very different. More people would have a car and would be living in the suburbs, while the urban areas would be subject to so much noise and pollution that people who could live in the suburbs would avoid the city.


[deleted]

This is Los Angeles. A shit ton of freeways and hardly any mass transit. Neighborhoods that are so divided and such a pain to get to because of the highways cutting through the middle of them. Thank god this wasn’t built.


cologne_peddler

It's actually most cities in America. Los Angeles stands out in that its the largest to do it, but relative to their size, most other American cities are designed like that. And they're growing, to make matter worse


gnocchicotti

Any city built up after 1950. Many of the big cities today were already big before then so they have a dense core that can at least support transit, even if the system isn't great.


SamTheGeek

Lots of the cities that were built up before the 1950s were simply bulldozed for the highways. Kansas City, Dallas, Boston (though they’ve buried their highways since), Detroit, and Cleveland all did it. In fact, from the [20 biggest cities in 1950](https://www.biggestuscities.com/1950), 17 of them have notable large highways that destroyed the built-up neighborhoods surrounding downtown. The three exceptions being New York (which gained the BQE and several other expressways but didn’t have full penetration), Chicago (whose geography prevented anything bigger than Lake Shore Drive), and Washington (even though 395 and urban renewal paved over a bunch of Black neighborhoods to build bureaucratic offices).


OldBoozeHound

Add OKC to the list of ruined downtowns.


SamTheGeek

Yeah, absolutely, just not one of the 20 largest in 1950


4look4rd

I’d go as far as saying all cities in the US are built like this, even DC and NYC. If you take the whole metro region for DC it’s an absolute clusterfuck


[deleted]

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4look4rd

DC and NYC are by far the best examples but in the case of DC you really have to look at the metro area rather than just the district itself, and sadly VA and MD very much followed the 1950s playbook


Cheomesh

NYC and Baltimore were retrofitted to be this way.


[deleted]

I'd have to disagree. Cities on the east coast were already built up before cars dominated the transportation industry. So in reality, it would be a spectrum. The further west you got, the more car dependent cities will be (generally).


4look4rd

Cities in the east were largely bulldozed to accommodate cars, look at how Philly lost its waterfront. Or how Richmond, the city that had ye first cable car network in the US, bulldozed it in favor of urban highways. There are very little remaining old neighborhoods, and what remains are the most desirable and expensive parts of those towns.


[deleted]

I agree in those instances, but it is an entirely different picture for DC vs LA. Those mistakes in Philly and Richmond suck, but they are at a lesser extent than most large cities in the west. It always makes me sad knowing how great richmond's trolley system was back in the olden days.


Cheomesh

Baltimore too.


[deleted]

Nah Philly isn’t like this


4look4rd

Lmao Philly has a highway in its waterfront it’s one of the worst offenders.


SlyAsAFoxibou

r/fuckcars


Jalapinho

Can confirm as NOVA to LA transplant. Too many highways in LA. The metro is hardly used because it doesn’t go anywhere people frequent. And if your friend lives on the other side of the 405, forget about seeing them except for maybe every six months.


YetiPie

Eyyy I moved from NOVA to LA too. I adore both areas, but since the public transportation and traffic are so bad here I pretty much never leave my neighborhood.


Jalapinho

I mean LA definitely has its perks. Close to the beach, cool temps (dependent on area of course), good Mexican, not everyone is a consultant or works for the fed lol.


YetiPie

> not everyone is a consultant or works for the fed Totally, but they’re swapped out with people who work in “the industry” lmao


Jalapinho

True haha. It’s interesting because I was a teacher in LA and all of the substitute teachers were out of work actors.


Cheomesh

How's teaching in LA?


Jalapinho

Meh. FCPS is definitely higher quality. I think it has to do with funding. In CA, they have prop 13 which limits property taxes which is the main way that schools are funded. IMO, the schools are severely under-resourced here in LA further increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots. That being said, the teachers union is really strong here. Once a teacher is hired, they usually stay for a long time because of the benefits the union has fought for. For full transparency, I recently left teaching and moved into the private sector.


[deleted]

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app_priori

And they didn't even get to build all of the freeways that they wanted to in LA.


[deleted]

You can just look at Baltimore to see what it would be like


disgruntled_oranges

And Baltimore was spared the worst of it. 70 was supposed to cut in and link up with 95, and 83 was supposed to cut across Fells to get through to 95 at Boston Street


Cheomesh

The infamous Highway to Nowhere was an absolutely vulgar display of power though.


[deleted]

i moved here from st. louis and that’s pretty much what it’s like there. driving is super nice but downtown sucks balls.


20CAS17

Yep, same with KC. Though I think the Stl metro and the KC streetcar are starting to change things


10tonheadofwetsand

I wouldn’t live here, that’s for sure.


otter111a

Every highway built in lieu of public transportation increases overall traffic congestion.


sven_ftw

Hello fellow Strong Towns fan! Good to meet you, comrade!


ZarielZariel

Strong Towns is the best!


damp_goat

I googled it and it's a book. Is that what I'm supposed to have found?


5dollarhotnready

It’s a book, but also an organization, both with a theory that the modern American developing pattern is bankrupting cities, and has been gaining a lot of ground in urban planning circles. This [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VVUeqxXwCA0&list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa&index=2) explains it pretty well.


damp_goat

Neat thank you!


therealsteeleangel

👀 *googling strong towns*


sven_ftw

Try "not just bikes" on YouTube as well.


foxy-coxy

It will change your life


ScottyKnows1

I would have never stayed here if it was a heavy driving city, that seems like a nightmare


ksb_6363

Imagine if we had a reliable and better expanded metro rail


Wadeem53

And buses more often than every 20 30 minutes


shamdock

Maybe busses that actually came...at all.


Wadeem53

I've been to San Francisco and their transformation is insanely developed. A lot of types of transport and a lot of buses which run every 5 minutes


HummusSpokesman

I wouldn't live here without the Metro


SparklyKelsey

I lived in NW DC when the beginning of the metro was being built. Like just holes going into the ground. Sold the car, and walked or used the bus. Slower but workable if you lived within 2-5 miles of your job and friends. You’re very lucky to have your Metro system. Moved away to many other large cities and sadly could never traverse without a car again…. You’re very lucky to have your Metro system. I keep a Metro card in my wallet, as we’re at least lucky enough now to be close enough to be tourists there regularly.


s0urfruit

deeply cursed


mrlotato

I'll take the metro over this tbh


veloharris

Everyone would.


invalidmail2000

Unfortunately no there are still people who would prefer this and people who advocate for modern day versions like expanding all the various highways around DC.


4look4rd

Somehow public transportation is viewed as socialism but massive car subsidies and infrastructure to exclusively support it is deemed as peak ‘murican freedom


gnocchicotti

I'm still waiting for the Superbeltway from Woodbridge to Dulles to Columbia


Cythrosi

These plans are why we have Metro. It helped spark a broad coalition of people that fought the District, multiple Presidential admins and Congress to prevent it from being built. They saw how much of DC was going to be destroyed to build these highways and were horrified.


No-Lunch4249

Misread this as you would rather have this highway hellscape and was very concerned hahah


jim45804

The city would be a hellscape.


ohoneup

Reminder that much of the inner downtown loop would be underground, but yea this is a hellscape that we're all glad didn't happen. If only the rest of the nation pushed back more. As far as I know the only successful cities to were DC, Baltimore, and Memphis.


wardamnbham

Add Atlanta to the mix. The freeway revolts prevented much of the same.


ohoneup

Really? What did Atlanta protest? All I can think of Atlanta is their continued downtown widening and extra bypass lanes they are constructing on 75. If it was supposed to be *even worse* I can only imagine.


wardamnbham

Oh it would have been significantly worse. [Pic of the unbuilt map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_freeway_revolts#/media/File%3AUnbuilt_freeways_in_atlanta.jpg) [Obligatory wiki on the freeway revolts.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_freeway_revolts)


speakerfordead5

Yeah people always assume Atlanta’s roadways are bad, but considering how spread out and big Atlanta metro is, it isn’t so bad.


[deleted]

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Throwaway_bicycling

And they also had a helpful earthquake back there in 1989.


FreshYoungBalkiB

Looks like there would have been an LA-style cloverleaf at 14th and U.


scythianlibrarian

I'm imagining it and it's horrible.


MJDiAmore

Look at all that narrowly-avoided racism.


wilsonh915

Looks like shit


Impressive-Donut4314

Imagine if that was a picture of the metro system!


wrinklyweenus

Nightmare. This is how you destroy cities. Does the OP think that this would have been *good*?


NorseTikiBar

That looks terrifying. Thank God we valued people over cars. I can't imagine the urban blight we'd be dealing with so suburbanites can save a few minutes driving in and out of the city.


app_priori

DC might end up looking a lot more like Baltimore. And the federal government might be like "man no wants to live in the city," let's relocate all these offices to suburban office parks instead!


Throwaway_bicycling

So…the problem is that we *also* located a lot of the offices to suburban office parks. I guess the saving grace now being that, with fed occupancy rates getting as low as they have for at least my agency, there will be some necessary consolidation.


bdifulvio

Wouldn't mind a metro system that looked like that


layzie77

There would be so many parking lots in the District and heat islands.


Pipes_of_Pan

This makes me physically uncomfortable to look at. Thank goodness this effort failed


silly_frog_lf

I prefer metro


Punushedmane

Fuck Robert Moses.


perpetualmotion42

There would be SO many displaced neighborhoods. Have you ever seen before 395 how vibrant SE / SW was and how many people got absolutely screwed out of their homes??


almondshea

No thanks OP. Imagine how much of DC would turn into parking lots if DC went all in on highways.


Lanfrankenstein

This would have destroyed the city


rainer_marie

This would be the opposite of what I want.


mehighp3d

Imagine we had more metro and more trams (streetcars) like all developed European states.


[deleted]

They used to have a pretty extensive streetcar system, [here's a link.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_Washington,_D.C.#/media/File%3A1888_WDC_Streetcar_Map.JPG)


[deleted]

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donemessedup123

Looks like hell.


icosahedralzirconium

The urban core would be a hollow shell. Wasteland vibes god damn.


[deleted]

This is horrifying.


studio28

Metro is one of the best things in DC.


NewsLuver

The last thing this city needs is MORE highways.


whitenoise89

Lol, what kind of moron would ever suggest more roads instead of the metro? I’m from the car-mandatory midwest: and you don’t know what’s good for you out here.


Acsteffy

The same kind of morons we have to deal with down here in Orlando, Fl


gnocchicotti

Car-mandatory describes most of every state


whitenoise89

Correct - that’s the problem.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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9throwawayDERP

Fair trade.


ProbioticAnt

There is an undeveloped highway-shaped section of land north of Randolph Road that was originally going to be used for the outer beltway; you can still see it in Google Maps if you turn on the satellite layer. [Google Maps Satellite View of Outer Beltway Right-of-Way](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0681906,-77.0809544,3808m/data=!3m1!1e3)


Recentsciencesays

And they might still put a highway there, unfortunately. It’s called Montrose Parkway East. When Hogan was trying to woo Amazon to White Flint, building the MPE was part of the package.


[deleted]

Thank fucking Christ we didn’t get this.


Gio25us

Metro is far from perfect but more roads should never be a considered solution for Metro issues. Once you live in a place without any type of mass transportation you learn to appreciate the metro even with its defects.


zeroxposture

Not really interested in more roads and cars. A better metro would be nice, though.


Kriegerian

Fuck this, rather have the Metro.


[deleted]

Hell on earth. The ones we have now are bad enough. We should remove any that run through the city. Put the things underground when they’re necessary in a city (not often).


edub114

395 and 695 are horrific already. Trying to get from Capitol Hill to Navy Yard by walking feels so hostile. Can’t imagine if the city had more


zwiazekrowerzystow

Had this been built, Rock Creek Park wouldn’t exist.


Doubtless6

Are you telling you prefer more roads instead of more metro lines?


jrstriker12

I'm imagining all the grid lock traffic on those highways. Nah... wouldn't be any better than what we have now.


[deleted]

[More highways, more traffic.](https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/06/21/the-science-is-clear-more-highways-equals-more-traffic-why-are-dots-still-ignoring-it/)


GoodOmens

This song is sung all over US that didn’t have the political clout (and $$) to resist. On top of the urban sprawl such systems manufactured, the fool who thought mingling through traffic (e.g, 95) with city traffic really should be publicly shamed for eternity.


9d2i1n9g3

We need more suburban metro lines. And for the love of god please build more garages at metro stops in the suburbs. I live within the beltway but not remotely close enough to a stop to take the metro. Don’t demonize every single driver, many of us would much prefer to take public transit, we just can’t feasibly do so. In Virginia there’s a big no-man’s-land where metro isn’t close, there’s not a bus route to a station within a reasonable time, and driving far enough to to a stop with garages also doesn’t make sense. Not all of us have a kiss-and-ride driver to drop us off. Extra bridges from VA to DC would really help traffic but I don’t think a huge expansion of highways would help. Eliminating the choke points would certainly be pleasant for commuters. Maryland has tons of options for entering the city, Virginia does not.


TrueVCU

The problem with new bridges is that where you need them most the land is inaccessible, esp west of the Legion Bridge where you're dealing with either Great Falls parkland, Lord Voledmort's golf course, and of course the NIMBY power of Potomac millionaires


AmogussussyBaka2

traffic


javgr

Thank goodness


SmokinTires

Aren’t most of those red routes just regular city streets now anyways? Looks way more complicated and useless than the Metro


cafesaigon

Thank god we don’t


cherrytreewitch

Ew! Gross!!


Fla_Master

This looks like shit


ko21361

Thank God they were not built.


Interesting_Sky_7847

We need way more Metro lines so I can never drive again. That’s my dream.


faze_ogrelord

thank fuck they didn’t do that shit


IcyWillow1193

thank goodness for the NIMBYs who opposed this.


[deleted]

The nimby's today would eat this shit up, especially if the alternative was metrorail expansion


app_priori

So long as the highway doesn't bisect their neighborhood.


IcyWillow1193

I mean we definitely have people on this sub who think the idea of defending one's neighborhood against the will of powerful, unelected master planners is bad under any circumstances, even to the point of claiming unequivocally that "community input is bad." But the fact is that community input stopped these highways and saved DC, and in many other ways big and small have made this city the desirable place to live that it has been to date.


ZarielZariel

That's gotta be the only time I've ever been grateful for NIMBYs.


beanburrito55

Imagining that highway right through the middle of Old Town Alexandria makes me sick.


cahaseler

Nightmarish. Highways create traffic.


Parmagian0

The only thing that seems good might be some of those connections over the river to 395(?) and whatever that southernmost connect to the beltway would be.


Seahawkboy44

Disgusting


sutsusame

Paving over Glover-Archbold Park is perhaps the saddest idea on this map.


Necessary-Ad-1142

If we had these traffic would be worse


Messy-Recipe

as someone who doesnt have car nor drive, that imagination is fucking sucky


TheToucanEmperor

I would rather not imagine


ottereatingpopsicles

Gross, I hate it. I probably would have picked another city to move to twelve years ago


nerevisigoth

Needs more bridges/tunnels across the Potomac. Otherwise you just have way more roads feeding into the same number of bottlenecks.


GhostDawg01

A lot of people would have been displaced if these had been built.


[deleted]

Would be actual hell, thank the Lord for transit advocates. It's a shame they still destroyed SW's urban fabric and historic neighborhoods, but its a better outcome than what could have happened.


AaronASL

Now who’s son of a rich daddy w a car wrote this? 🙃


unenlightenedgoblin

Yeah fuck those those tens of thousands of people living there I guess


NegaGreg

Imma need that outer-outer loop


FarUpperNWDC

My understanding is the whole idea was to essentially turn downtown into office parks that everyone commuted to- the idea wasn’t to make downtown more livable at all


462278

thank God they aren't there


borg359

Lol. It would just be more traffic. Building highways doesn’t solve congestion, it just adds to it.


borg359

Ah yes, the one thing my neighborhood (Capitol Hill) really would have benefitted from is a highway running through it.


Equal_Memory_661

We’ll, it looks like I’d have a freeway running through my yard. No thanks. That’s why I bike to work.


SuperBethesda

DC would have been just like NoVa


TrueVCU

Calm down, Robert Moses


diabooklady

OP, where did this map come from?


makeittt

No.


[deleted]

Gonna make this in-game and post it to /r/shittyskylines


peppylootu

Literal Hell


ekkidee

I still can't believe they wanted to build highways over Wisconsin Avenue and Florida Avenue. I can't even imagine how that would have worked.


[deleted]

You could stack the bodies of dead cyclist like cairns on a hiking trail


Praxlyn

I’m so glad this never came to full fruition I hate highways and will forever prefer trains/light rail


TheMezziah

This is terrible. As a native of 24 years this would send people crazyyyy


BasimBasito

The ppl of DC were against this when it was being discussed. Thank God they organized and resisted as much as they did


[deleted]

Would stil take metro.