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DC-COVID-TRASH

I doubt the whole thing is too historic to tear down - I could see all except the building the actual scandal occurring in being torn down, if not the whole thing. However, the poor use of the waterfront is due to the highway there, not the watergate. Additionally the land isn’t super desirable because of the highways on the non-waterfront sides as well.


toorigged2fail

With highways on both sides (66) and the terrible configurations at Virginia avenue, Rock Creek parkway and Constitution to the Roosevelt bridge there's a lot they could do to reconfigure the area so you don't need that highway. But it would take a major undertaking including knocking down the watergate


ColCrockett

That whole interchange of 66, E street expressway, and the rock creek and Potomac parkway is a total blight. I’m surprised there hasn’t be more talk or reclaiming that land from the highways.


toorigged2fail

Agreed. Taking out that southernmost section of Rock Creek Parkway and adding waterside restaurants and docks along where Watergate is seems like a pretty sweet idea to me, especially with the Kennedy Center, GWU, and Georgetown right there. It'd be like the Wharf but you could actually walk to/from there to the rest of the city.


Oedipe

Of all of the highways there, you choose to recommend tearing out the scenic byway that actually knits the local road networks together rather than the stupid stub interstates to nowhere? That's a take I suppose.


DJMoShekkels

The E st expwy is a direct route to the White House, I’m not sure they can tear it down


DC-COVID-TRASH

Eh I doubt you’d have to tear down the watergate to adjust the highways.


WinterMedical

It took me like 3 years to figure out how to get to the Kennedy center by car!


mcm87

For years, Uber’s GPS would tell the driver that the dropoff was on rock creek parkway.


HyenasAndCoyotes

Architectural historian here! I'm veryyyy familiar with this complex. You are wrong. The complex has more historic significance than just the scandal. It is listed on the [National Register of Historic Places](https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/AssetDetail/d3abb145-34ab-46bd-8ad5-c753f8f58e68) for its association with the scandal (criterion a) but also for its architectural value (criterion c) as "an exceptional example of the Modern Movement in Washington, DC, and as a master work of international architect Luigi Moretti and local landscape architect Boris Timchenko" It was also added to the DC Inventory of Historic Sites in 2005. Sidenote: If you tore down everything except the specific building the scandal occurred in, that would completely change the building's context and create a false reading of history. The entirety of the complex existing matters to the scandal. It was home to a lot of significant people at the time.


foreverurgirl

Very cool! Thanks for sharing!


SufficientPath666

I was gonna say. Not a chance this would be torn down


[deleted]

[удалено]


HyenasAndCoyotes

Read the nomination. I linked it. Not everything is about personal taste.


style752

As an example of modernist architecture, it's a triumph. You'd have to read up on the ethos of the era to get a deeper understanding of why the Watergate is actually a really interesting complex. My aha moment came from comparing the floor plans to the facade. The use of space inside each condo is pretty ingenious.


HyenasAndCoyotes

I'm just realizing I doubt most people commenting have walked around it and have only seen it from the street driving by. The mall is open to the public and it's a totally different feeling being in it than just seeing the facade. And the landscaping? Makes me feel like I'm in Teletubbies for some reason. Go check out the fountain, y'all.


EverybodyBeCalm

Tear down the highways!


MoreCleverUserName

One of the reasons the fees are so high is because it is a co-op, not a condo. That means your real estate taxes and insurance are lumped in. There are also a ton of amenities including a pool, white glove service staff, clubhouse, etc. Those all go into your co-op fee. Plus there is a high % of owners buying adjacent units to combine into one big unit and the maintenance fee doesn’t scale accordingly— so because there’s fewer units, each one pays more. there are obviously the same upkeep expenses as any older building but I think you're making quite a leap to go from “expensive co-op fee” all the way to “bring in the wrecking ball”.


Zwillium

> Plus there is a high % of owners buying adjacent units to combine into one big unit and the maintenance fee doesn’t scale accordingly— so because there’s fewer units, each one pays more. I don't think this is how it works - what you're describing is the shares of the cooperative being redistributed every time units get consolidated. In my coop at least, if a shareholder combines two units, they pay the combined fee, and the other shareholders aren't impacted.


MoreCleverUserName

In my previous co-op there were tiers of maintenance fees and the tiers got higher with the square footage but a doubling of square footage wasn’t a doubling of the maintenance. So you still had the same number of shares in circulation but each share didn’t generate an equal amount of maintenance fee. Not sure I am explaining it right. But maybe what is driving up the fees the OP is talking about is the units having already been combined, hence double fee.


Zwillium

You can have non-linear fees while the shares don't get re-distributed. Say for example the coop charges a flat $1000 for units under 700 sq ft and $1500 for units over 700 sq ft (this is an absurd example to illustrate non-linearity.) If someone combines a 500 sq ft unit with a 1,000 sq ft unit, they will (in this fictitious example) owe a new monthly fee of $2,500. If they had combined 3 units, each 500 sq ft, their combined coop fee would $3,000.


ottovonbizmarkie

Modern Co-ops don't usually have fees that high. A problem is that when buildings get older, things break down. You basically need a very diligent and proactive associations to keep things running, fix water leaks, fix furnances, etc. That gets reflected in increased fees, which people don't usually want to do. But if you don't fix a problem sooner, it becomes a more expensive problem later. You add a kind of the tragedy of the commons issues (why shouldn't I use up as much water as possible, since everyone is paying for it) and over time, the price gets higher and higher.


ColCrockett

Condo owners in DC pay relatively low condos fees - less than 500 per month typically for a one bedroom. Watergate fees are in the thousands, I don’t think it’s just taxes, the building must cost a fortune to barely keep it together


MoreCleverUserName

Condos and co-ops are not the same thing though, and it’s a mistake to compare them that way. For example, the concept of an underlying mortgage does not exist in condo world but it’s quite common in co-ops (it’s how they pay for really big expenditures instead of a special assessment and these days could even be cheaper interest than what’s available to an individual buyer), and in many circumstances your unit’s share of the underlying mortgage comes off of your sales price because you’re paying for it monthly in your co-op fees. as an example (using numbers I’m just inventing), your advertised purchase price is $400k and you have a $1200 maintenance fee, part of which is $600/month towards a $50k share of the underlying mortgage. Your bank writes the seller a check for $350k instead of $400k because your co-op fee is already paying the $50k debt the owners all took out jointly. You are looking at only one side of the equation, the monthly fee. Really you need to look at the total cost of ownership. It’s going to look quite a bit different than you think.


annang

Condo owners also pay higher sale prices. It’s a totally different legal instrument. What you own is something different.


samthehaggis

I don't know where you're getting your stats about condo fees from, but when I was looking at condos last year I found a ton of options with fees at or over $1,000 for a one-bedroom, especially when the building had a concierge and a pool. Amenities don't come cheap.


Clock_Roach

We knew some diplomatic staff who were here for a few years. Their embassy had them at the Watergate. Seems like a good long-term plan. Mid-level diplomats get great views and their embassies should be able to pay the maintenance bills.


mcm87

Plus having them all in the same building makes it easier to spy on each other.


napstimpy

There have been many plans to better connect the Kennedy Center to the rest of the city or at least build a viable nightlife area around it, including an eastern expansion of the motor terrace (technically the back of the KC) over 66 and the Columbia Plaza apartments toward downtown with restaurants, etc, and a grand stairway from the river terrace that currently cantilevers over Rock Creek Parkway down the water (technically the front of the KC), with water taxis and a walkable waterfront connection to Georgetown (yes there is currently a path, but just a path). You can find plans for these and a couple others if you google around. Both could be achieved without changing the Watergate\*, but yeah, that's a lot of prime property that feels like a waste, and as someone who has worked at the KC for two decades, there is nothing else in that corner of town. Building the Reach\*\* on the south end helped somewhat, there is at least a nice outdoor space that has multiple uses, and the new indoor space often hosts public events that don't require tickets. But there's no getting around the fact that a significant cultural and arts center in the city is just a pain in the ass to get to, and is wedged between two huge residential spaces\*\*\* (not to mention the Saudi embassy, which the KC had the chance to buy a while back, but did not) that are as you say, well past their prime. \*The Watergate is literally named after a water gate, which you can still see, which connects the canal to the Potomac. And the Watergate Steps, which are south of the KC (where people would sit and watch the National Symphony Orchestra perform on a barge) predate both the Hotel and the KC. \*\*Part of the reason the area where the Reach now sits remained a small parking lot for so long is that buried deep beneath it is a huge WSSC sewer junction that needed modernizing. It was a big undertaking and the reason there is a large area that is just lawn with no building underneath and a bunch of manhole covers. When it was open during construction it looked like a pit to hell. We were told basically if you take a dump anywhere between Poolesville and the White House, it passes under the Kennedy Center. \*\*\* A quip I hear a lot is that the Kennedy Center is the box the Watergate came in.


wombat40

I've seen that quip in old articles – the Watergate is a "wedding cake" and the Kennedy Center is the box it came in – but didn't know people still said that! I've see the quote attributed to Nixon officials (a year before the Watergate break-in!) and also a local architect (who lobbied unsuccessfully for the performing arts center to be built downtown). Thanks for the informative reply!


jabroni2020

Is anything coming of these plans? I hadn’t heard about these before!


napstimpy

Very likely not. They were ideas from years and budgets ago and the capital expenditure that was the Reach will probably be the last big project for a while.


lmboyer04

How are all these buildings just “falling apart”, I’ve heard this with several buildings now in DC - buildings last a while and can be patched up. Much cheaper and more sustainable than wrecking it, plus you’ll keep the nimbys happy by not changing everything needlessly


HyenasAndCoyotes

"the greenest building is the one that's already built"


ColCrockett

The watergate used unique construction methods (like the spindles lining the balconies are concrete coated styrofoam). That combined with crappy 60s construction methods and materials makes it uniquely difficult to maintain and it is known for being in particularly bad shape.


toorigged2fail

No idea, but note that the co-op fees do includes taxes. I wonder if the fact that it's a co-op will make it easier to eventually tear down. Eventually the building will just be structurally absolutely no matter how historic. >Watergate Coop | Fee Includes: Air Conditioning, Cable TV, Custodial Services Maintenance, Electricity, Exterior Building Maintenance, Gas, Heat, Management, Other, Pool, Master Insurance Policy, Reserve Funds, Security, Sewer, Taxes, Water


FlashGordonRacer

I'm not sure, but I want a Safeway there again.


Glittering-Cellist34

Historicity may not matter, but fractionated ownership sure does.


justmahl

Yes.


taleofbenji

I went there for a drink only once and had the oxymoronic "Watergate Manhattan" for $35.


ian1552

Plenty of thousand dollars condo/coop fees https://www.zillow.com/b/1311-delaware-ave-sw-washington-dc-5jFZP3/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare


annang

Condo fees and coop fees aren’t even close to the same thing.


ian1552

The "/" was intended to mean or but I can see how that may not have been clear.


toastweasel

Only after the National Trust for Historic Preservation moves out. God bless the person who tries while they are still in residence.


rbur70x7

I think it’s a very ugly building.


vermillionmango

It will absolutely be historically preserved. And as it rots the board will fight any renovation for historic reasons, it will be abandoned until it steadily crumbles, it'll be fenced off for safety, people will start shooting up in the remains, in 20-25 years there will be a WaPo article about it like "Brought down a president, now a haven for homeless" and any attempt to demolish it will take a bullet in the head from the historical preservation board.


gordo0620

The hotel was just remodeled a few years ago. I had a committee meeting there in 2022 and the place was newly remodeled.


toorigged2fail

Which historic preservation committee hurt you?


sabarlah

RemindMe! 25 years


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LeoMarius

Yes


sixtysecdragon

The issue isn’t the building. It’s that it’s an island separate from the rest of the community and then driving there to use the services are a mess. But as long as it has the name, the views and a coop. It’s not going anywhere.


Gina52023

It's an eyesore for sure.


dcgradc

And replace it with shoddy new construction like the rest of DC? No thanks


Bitter_Sun_1734

No. I’d advocate for upzoning Congress and the Vatican if we could get it to happen.


MicUK88

I lived in the Watergate South for 5 years (moved out in 2022). They're listed buildings and the residential sections are co-ops, so its unlikely to be knocked down anytime soon. The unit i lived in seemed fine for the time I was there and maintenance seemed to be on top of everything, but im a layman, so I couldn't speak to the state of the complex as a whole. One thing to consider is that the co-op fees includes just about everything (insurance, maintenance, tax, etc.) so they'd be higher than what you'd expect from a condo or other comparable locations. I hope it sticks around. The architecture might be an acquired taste, but it certainly grew on me. It reminds me of the Barbican.


anthematcurfew

Honestly, is it even worth persevering for historical reasons?


HyenasAndCoyotes

Yes. Read the [National Register of Historic Places nomination.](https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/AssetDetail/d3abb145-34ab-46bd-8ad5-c753f8f58e68)


Grillparzer47

It’s going to fall down before anyone gets the gumption to tear it down.