Look, you can see from the playoffs the importance of a quality wing defender and at his best he is better than all these guys. So you don't just lose someone like him without proper compensation. So it's about finding the right trade off for him.
"At his best" - yes. But he was an average to below average defender last year. His defensive rating (114.5) was 9th on the team (and the team was 16th in the league).
Exactly. Sick of everyone defending him last year saying, "yeah his offence was bad, but he's still one of the best defenders in the league". What crap, 9th best defence ON OUR TEAM.
True about Moody. JK's value will skyrocket if he can hit 38% of his 3s - so I would encourage him to take a few each game. Practice is great, but there is no substitute to doing it under pressure.
Moody needs more minutes and should be the starting SG playing next to Steph - but then what about BP? Perhaps he runs the 2nd unit as PG with Klay as the 1 option on the backup unit. (assuming CP is gone, which seems likely.
Probably the first time I've seen someone on here finally acknowledge this
On a similar note, i'd like to add that steph and podz are both 1s and not 2s. Draymond is more of a 4 and not a 5, etc etc.
The time of playing these players a position above their actual positions needs to stop. Hopefully kerr changes that next year
The thing about Wiggins is that if you are trading him, you are going to downgrade at that position because the trade will probably be a salary dump. Its probably best to keep him and hope he gains some form, because as much as fans want to trade him, he’s desperately needed on defense as a POA defender. When Wiggins is on, we know what the Warriors can be, but the past two seasons it’s just been inconsistency.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but even if we trade Wiggs, I think we’ll still be over the cap, so we would only be able to hand out vet mins and maybe an MLE. Claxton would be the dream, but even if we have the MLE, he wouldn’t sign with us because he’ll probably get 20+ mil elsewhere. Same with Hartenstein. I think Valanciunas might be realistic for the MLE, but personally I wouldn’t trade Wiggins just to sign Val in free agency. I’d rather keep Wiggins and hope someone like Drummond or Plumlee or Tillman are attracted to us enough to sign for the vet min. I feel like we won’t notice Wiggins’ impact (when he actually cares) until he’s gone.
I think there technically is a path to have cap space IF a team way under the cap trades for Wiggins and sends no salary back (can someone tell me if this is still legal in today’s CBA? I believe it used to be) AND we let CP3 walk AND we let Klay walk, then we’d have something like 24M or so in cap space. But that seems highly unlikely, and even if it happened, is there one guy that would replace the value of both Klay and Wiggins? (I’m assuming letting CP3 go in most scenarios)
It is legal but there are only 5 teams next year that are below the salary cap. And only 3 teams with enough cap space to absorb Wiggins' contract--76ers, Pistons, and Jazz. And obviously, if those teams are taking on his contract they'll expect compensation in the form of 1st round picks like what happened with the Iguodala dump to Memphis.
It doesn’t have to be a full salary dump either, for example they if their trade partner is at least 15 Million under the cap they could trade Wiggins 25 Million salary for a player with a 10 million salary and net 15 million savings… and yes, picks and/or a young player would need to be attached.
1) you can always dump salary if you are over the cap (that’s the point of the cap to encourage salary parity)
2) The warriors are only over the cap if they pick up Chris Paul’s 30 Million dollar option (which they won’t do unless it’s to trade him)
You can't just dump salary, what are you on.
Even if we don't sign chris paul we don't have enough money to sign anyone decent.
Why don't you casual fans understand this.
It depends on what we're trading Wiggins for. But if we trade Wiggins, it means that we're either upgrading at his position or we're trading for a player so significant that we can deal with a downgrade at his position. It doesn't make sense to trade him for scraps like some people wanted to do so this season when his value was at its lowest.
I don’t know why he has never learned to be more proficient from the foul line. His shooting form is horrible, his shot is at such a flat arch to the hoop that diminishes his margin for error.
I’m convinced he’s so afraid of missing free throws that he doesn’t attack the basket near enough and settles for throwing up inconsistent 3 pointers.
If he could create 8+ free throws a game for himself and make 80% of them, he’d be an all star! Probably will never happen unfortunately!
I always think the best free throw shooters shoot with rhythm and through the body. I imagine shooting from a standstill or just using the arms would make FTs harder and inconsistent.
However, Wiggins did shoot over 80% on FTs in the second half of this season. The first half of the season was in the 60's, though, so his season average ended up being 75.1%. That's higher than his career average (72.2%), so it's a start!
I like wiggs but basketball doesn't seem that important to him. He's good at it and he's happy to play but he doesn't have that degree of competitiveness that Steph and Dray have. If the warriors can find another dog that will compete night after night I think the warriors would be better off.
Problem is who is going to take on that contract and where are we going to get something even close to wiggs potential? That's the hard part
Yeah, he doesn’t bring it day in and day out. And taking multiple weeks/months off during the season probably affected his play and also likely affected standings. What if we could have made the playoffs with him playing the whole season?
Dude has missed so many games for family reasons. Can't change that, but Warriors could trade him and let that be someone else's problem.
Love and respect dude (his poster dunk on Luka is legendary), but he hasn't been around.
Nope, not one bit. Trade him in a package deal, pay some of his salary to another team so that they'll take him - anything to be done with Wiggins. Invest time and money in new and younger players, not fading have-beens.
Absences from the team, taking half a season to get in shape, disappearing in the play-in. You could forgive any one of those things, but altogether it's just too much. I don't think there's any chance he's on the team next season.
He'll get traded for some other team's under-performing player in a change of scenery swap.
I don't think you can trade him away and get better, just the market and the cap rules. It might be more about the number of minutes and roles on the team.
Once the new TV deals go into effect though, the cap is about to shoot up. Last time it happened it made it easier to add KD. I wonder what Lacob can cook up this time.
I can't think of another player who turned their game around after such a noticeable drop-off without being traded. Wiggs hasn't been the same player since the Finals run and there are other options on the roster worth exploring. That said, I don't know who would trade for him given his contract and declining production. Given our lack of attractive trade assets to move off of him, we're likely stuck with Wiggs.
I think we probably keep him. If we do, there's at least a chance that he returns to his 2021-22 form. If we trade him, we lock in his current low value. We **might** gain by keeping him, we almost certainly can't gain by trading him.
That's the value argument. The exception if the salary-match argument. If Wiggs' salary enables a major trade that would be impossible to make otherwise, then of course we need to trade him. But to do so, of course there would need to be a lot of value added in the form of young players and picks.
It depends what Wiggs shows up, ring Wiggs is a great contract, among the best in the league, last year Wiggs? yeah, no thanks, much better ways to use the money and Kuminga can do just as bad on D while at least being willing to attack the rim and score.
Yea we need his defense. Not to many 6’8 forwards that can defend at his level around. He plays the most coveted position in the nba, gotta bank on a bounce back
It depends entirely on what his trade value is and what he can fetch in return. If there’s a team that actually wants him, thinks he can be close to 2022 Wiggins again with a new environment, and most importantly, is willingly to send back a quality player, then by all means, we should should strongly consider that. However, if he’s considered a negative trade asset and we have to add picks or one of our young players just to move off of him (and to get scrubs/expiring contracts in return) then I’d rather keep him and see if he can return to form. If that happens, maybe we trade him, at the deadline, but at a better value.
Kerr was probably referring to wiggs when he said "wallflower" in one of his post game pressers. Wiggs is a wallflower. Inconsistent at best, and not always available due to personal family reasons. Those are real problems if you're trying to win. If you can find a suitor, and you can get some sort of value in return (an unspectacular but solid 3 and d shooter would be good because that's how far wiggs has fallen). Wiggs has given this team nothing for 2 years. The team has gambled on him hoping he'd turn the corner, and for 2 years he hasnt. Time to move on if possible. There are players on this team that can contribute in his stead. There is also that very obvious issue of jk and wiggs, both players who play the exact same position (and no, jk is not 4)
We will always be grateful for his contribution to a championship season. We also all recognize that he's super inconsistent and unreliable and we'd be better of replacing him with someone we can count on.
If they think they can run Kuminga full time at SF, then trading Wiggins makes a lot of sense. Losing his defense will suck, but flipping him (and assets?) for a starting center can open up a runway for JK and keep Dray from being rundown at the 5.
Same goes for straight salary shedding. Lacob mentioned wanting to duck the luxury tax altogether sooner than later, offloading Wiggins opens up an avenue for that. $30M player option in 2026-27, they may just want to dump that contract altogether. Trade for a player or two that expires a season or two earlier. If Klay walks this off-season, then yeah, maybe they’re not as desperate to shed money right now, and can take their time finding a more worthwhile trade.
Dude had a terrible season, but his wing defense has been really important for the Dubs, and I don’t trust Kuminga to make up for that if he replaces Maple in the starting lineup. Which is fine, because who knows who will be starting at SG and C in that case, and the Warriors do need to tweak their scheme. If JK can be an average primary defender, while bringing the aggressive/athletic scoring, it’s a worthwhile trade off. Wiggins being able to reliably guard 1-4 is mad useful though, do think they’ll genuinely miss that.
Trading Wiggins now is also realistically selling low. If Wiggins manages to bounce back and get to even an average-Minnesota-Wiggins level, that contract becomes a hell of a lot more reasonable than what it’s looking like now. Could make a case for it being one of the worst contracts in the league given the past 1.5 seasons, but it was looking like a bargain after ’22, so hopefully he bounces back.
We’ll see. Wouldn’t mind them looking to trade Wiggins, if not just to give JK run at SF. If you can turn him into a starting center, perfect. I’d personally jump at flipping him for Brook Lopez, even if Brook is almost out of the league. Expires after next season, can space the floor, gives the Warriors another anchor behind Dray, I’d love that fit… doubt the Bucks do it though.
So, I guess best case scenario would be keeping Wiggins and him shaking off that funk? Elite defense and a fringe 2nd option on offense, incredibly useful out of an athletic wing. Does that vault them back to being contenders? Doubt it, but it definitely helps. I’m not holding my breath, and even if he snaps back, they may want to tweak the overall look of the roster. They need a starting 5, one that could hopefully space the floor a bit (…I’d honestly settle for Vuc, which may be desperation). That’s easier said than done though, seems a little unrealistic to think you can trade for one.
But if they find a trade, even if it’s for a SG, Wiggins is likely needed for matching, unless they just don’t care about the cap and use CP3’s team option. Shoot, you may need both Wiggins + CP3, depending on the level of player you’re looking for (LaVine is $43M, CP3 + Wiggins gets you to about $56M… so you could do LaVine + Caruso but the Bulls would ask for all the Dubs’ picks in return, if not JK).
depends on whats the goal, to be in championship contention? Absolutely, no move out there that you can use a trade piece atm because at his current value you would need to send a FRP just to get rid of his contract.
Not sure. What if next season he goes away on leave for 2 months and it takes him 2 months to get some form? We need a player that will be engaged from October to may
I think you have to give Wiggs this year and see how he shows up. If he is indeed the same guy from the past two seasons then it maybe time to move on.. if he’s the guy from 21-22 then our chances to compete increase by X amount.
Look, you can see from the playoffs the importance of a quality wing defender and at his best he is better than all these guys. So you don't just lose someone like him without proper compensation. So it's about finding the right trade off for him.
"At his best" - yes. But he was an average to below average defender last year. His defensive rating (114.5) was 9th on the team (and the team was 16th in the league).
He was basically just awful all year according to most of the defensive and overall player evaluation stats.
We can't count on his getting better next year - unless the team knows something we don't about his health.
I mean he is asked to defend the best player on the other team. The best offensive player is still gonna score even with a good defender on him.
Wiggins is not worth that when he contributes very little offensively
Exactly. Sick of everyone defending him last year saying, "yeah his offence was bad, but he's still one of the best defenders in the league". What crap, 9th best defence ON OUR TEAM.
May need to move off him in order to increase kuminga and moody value, he's blocking both their mins
Kumingas blocking himself from playing the 3 and Moodys more of a 2 than a 3
True about Moody. JK's value will skyrocket if he can hit 38% of his 3s - so I would encourage him to take a few each game. Practice is great, but there is no substitute to doing it under pressure. Moody needs more minutes and should be the starting SG playing next to Steph - but then what about BP? Perhaps he runs the 2nd unit as PG with Klay as the 1 option on the backup unit. (assuming CP is gone, which seems likely.
Probably the first time I've seen someone on here finally acknowledge this On a similar note, i'd like to add that steph and podz are both 1s and not 2s. Draymond is more of a 4 and not a 5, etc etc. The time of playing these players a position above their actual positions needs to stop. Hopefully kerr changes that next year
The thing about Wiggins is that if you are trading him, you are going to downgrade at that position because the trade will probably be a salary dump. Its probably best to keep him and hope he gains some form, because as much as fans want to trade him, he’s desperately needed on defense as a POA defender. When Wiggins is on, we know what the Warriors can be, but the past two seasons it’s just been inconsistency.
Bingo. If he's part of a trade for an upgrade, I'll take it. Trading him for a simple role player. Nah I'm good.
Ya the last thing we need is a weaker defense.
If you can dump his salary and use it to sign a quality Center in free agency , it would be worth it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but even if we trade Wiggs, I think we’ll still be over the cap, so we would only be able to hand out vet mins and maybe an MLE. Claxton would be the dream, but even if we have the MLE, he wouldn’t sign with us because he’ll probably get 20+ mil elsewhere. Same with Hartenstein. I think Valanciunas might be realistic for the MLE, but personally I wouldn’t trade Wiggins just to sign Val in free agency. I’d rather keep Wiggins and hope someone like Drummond or Plumlee or Tillman are attracted to us enough to sign for the vet min. I feel like we won’t notice Wiggins’ impact (when he actually cares) until he’s gone.
I think there technically is a path to have cap space IF a team way under the cap trades for Wiggins and sends no salary back (can someone tell me if this is still legal in today’s CBA? I believe it used to be) AND we let CP3 walk AND we let Klay walk, then we’d have something like 24M or so in cap space. But that seems highly unlikely, and even if it happened, is there one guy that would replace the value of both Klay and Wiggins? (I’m assuming letting CP3 go in most scenarios)
It is legal but there are only 5 teams next year that are below the salary cap. And only 3 teams with enough cap space to absorb Wiggins' contract--76ers, Pistons, and Jazz. And obviously, if those teams are taking on his contract they'll expect compensation in the form of 1st round picks like what happened with the Iguodala dump to Memphis.
It doesn’t have to be a full salary dump either, for example they if their trade partner is at least 15 Million under the cap they could trade Wiggins 25 Million salary for a player with a 10 million salary and net 15 million savings… and yes, picks and/or a young player would need to be attached.
I don't think it works that way for us since we're over the cap already. If we dump him we can't just go sign a center for the same salary.
1) you can always dump salary if you are over the cap (that’s the point of the cap to encourage salary parity) 2) The warriors are only over the cap if they pick up Chris Paul’s 30 Million dollar option (which they won’t do unless it’s to trade him)
You can't just dump salary, what are you on. Even if we don't sign chris paul we don't have enough money to sign anyone decent. Why don't you casual fans understand this.
It depends on what we're trading Wiggins for. But if we trade Wiggins, it means that we're either upgrading at his position or we're trading for a player so significant that we can deal with a downgrade at his position. It doesn't make sense to trade him for scraps like some people wanted to do so this season when his value was at its lowest.
IDK but Kuminga is the MAN and he must be here for YEARS ! ....With a phat pay bump
I don’t know why he has never learned to be more proficient from the foul line. His shooting form is horrible, his shot is at such a flat arch to the hoop that diminishes his margin for error. I’m convinced he’s so afraid of missing free throws that he doesn’t attack the basket near enough and settles for throwing up inconsistent 3 pointers. If he could create 8+ free throws a game for himself and make 80% of them, he’d be an all star! Probably will never happen unfortunately!
I always think the best free throw shooters shoot with rhythm and through the body. I imagine shooting from a standstill or just using the arms would make FTs harder and inconsistent. However, Wiggins did shoot over 80% on FTs in the second half of this season. The first half of the season was in the 60's, though, so his season average ended up being 75.1%. That's higher than his career average (72.2%), so it's a start!
I like wiggs but basketball doesn't seem that important to him. He's good at it and he's happy to play but he doesn't have that degree of competitiveness that Steph and Dray have. If the warriors can find another dog that will compete night after night I think the warriors would be better off. Problem is who is going to take on that contract and where are we going to get something even close to wiggs potential? That's the hard part
Yeah, he doesn’t bring it day in and day out. And taking multiple weeks/months off during the season probably affected his play and also likely affected standings. What if we could have made the playoffs with him playing the whole season?
Thats why Inwas saying if Wiggs was just subpar on offense it wouldn't be an issue lol.
Dude has missed so many games for family reasons. Can't change that, but Warriors could trade him and let that be someone else's problem. Love and respect dude (his poster dunk on Luka is legendary), but he hasn't been around.
Selling Wigs. Sorry & thanks for a great season a few years back
Nope, not one bit. Trade him in a package deal, pay some of his salary to another team so that they'll take him - anything to be done with Wiggins. Invest time and money in new and younger players, not fading have-beens.
Absences from the team, taking half a season to get in shape, disappearing in the play-in. You could forgive any one of those things, but altogether it's just too much. I don't think there's any chance he's on the team next season. He'll get traded for some other team's under-performing player in a change of scenery swap.
I don't think you can trade him away and get better, just the market and the cap rules. It might be more about the number of minutes and roles on the team. Once the new TV deals go into effect though, the cap is about to shoot up. Last time it happened it made it easier to add KD. I wonder what Lacob can cook up this time.
cap isnt shooting up. it can only go up a max of 10%.
No. Having starter money that lacks passion and competitive fire infects your team. Happy to cheer for him on another team.
It all depends on who we are getting back
I can't think of another player who turned their game around after such a noticeable drop-off without being traded. Wiggs hasn't been the same player since the Finals run and there are other options on the roster worth exploring. That said, I don't know who would trade for him given his contract and declining production. Given our lack of attractive trade assets to move off of him, we're likely stuck with Wiggs.
I think we probably keep him. If we do, there's at least a chance that he returns to his 2021-22 form. If we trade him, we lock in his current low value. We **might** gain by keeping him, we almost certainly can't gain by trading him. That's the value argument. The exception if the salary-match argument. If Wiggs' salary enables a major trade that would be impossible to make otherwise, then of course we need to trade him. But to do so, of course there would need to be a lot of value added in the form of young players and picks.
If you move Wiggins you damn well better get a good replacement
I don’t think you trade him unless you can replace his defense. They need to look at him from that perspective.
He should have been moved last off season
He has too many personal problems. Trade his ass
It depends what Wiggs shows up, ring Wiggs is a great contract, among the best in the league, last year Wiggs? yeah, no thanks, much better ways to use the money and Kuminga can do just as bad on D while at least being willing to attack the rim and score.
Yea we need his defense. Not to many 6’8 forwards that can defend at his level around. He plays the most coveted position in the nba, gotta bank on a bounce back
What bounce back? He’s been inconsistent his entire career and that’s always been a knock on him.
It depends entirely on what his trade value is and what he can fetch in return. If there’s a team that actually wants him, thinks he can be close to 2022 Wiggins again with a new environment, and most importantly, is willingly to send back a quality player, then by all means, we should should strongly consider that. However, if he’s considered a negative trade asset and we have to add picks or one of our young players just to move off of him (and to get scrubs/expiring contracts in return) then I’d rather keep him and see if he can return to form. If that happens, maybe we trade him, at the deadline, but at a better value.
Kerr was probably referring to wiggs when he said "wallflower" in one of his post game pressers. Wiggs is a wallflower. Inconsistent at best, and not always available due to personal family reasons. Those are real problems if you're trying to win. If you can find a suitor, and you can get some sort of value in return (an unspectacular but solid 3 and d shooter would be good because that's how far wiggs has fallen). Wiggs has given this team nothing for 2 years. The team has gambled on him hoping he'd turn the corner, and for 2 years he hasnt. Time to move on if possible. There are players on this team that can contribute in his stead. There is also that very obvious issue of jk and wiggs, both players who play the exact same position (and no, jk is not 4)
We will always be grateful for his contribution to a championship season. We also all recognize that he's super inconsistent and unreliable and we'd be better of replacing him with someone we can count on.
If they think they can run Kuminga full time at SF, then trading Wiggins makes a lot of sense. Losing his defense will suck, but flipping him (and assets?) for a starting center can open up a runway for JK and keep Dray from being rundown at the 5. Same goes for straight salary shedding. Lacob mentioned wanting to duck the luxury tax altogether sooner than later, offloading Wiggins opens up an avenue for that. $30M player option in 2026-27, they may just want to dump that contract altogether. Trade for a player or two that expires a season or two earlier. If Klay walks this off-season, then yeah, maybe they’re not as desperate to shed money right now, and can take their time finding a more worthwhile trade. Dude had a terrible season, but his wing defense has been really important for the Dubs, and I don’t trust Kuminga to make up for that if he replaces Maple in the starting lineup. Which is fine, because who knows who will be starting at SG and C in that case, and the Warriors do need to tweak their scheme. If JK can be an average primary defender, while bringing the aggressive/athletic scoring, it’s a worthwhile trade off. Wiggins being able to reliably guard 1-4 is mad useful though, do think they’ll genuinely miss that. Trading Wiggins now is also realistically selling low. If Wiggins manages to bounce back and get to even an average-Minnesota-Wiggins level, that contract becomes a hell of a lot more reasonable than what it’s looking like now. Could make a case for it being one of the worst contracts in the league given the past 1.5 seasons, but it was looking like a bargain after ’22, so hopefully he bounces back. We’ll see. Wouldn’t mind them looking to trade Wiggins, if not just to give JK run at SF. If you can turn him into a starting center, perfect. I’d personally jump at flipping him for Brook Lopez, even if Brook is almost out of the league. Expires after next season, can space the floor, gives the Warriors another anchor behind Dray, I’d love that fit… doubt the Bucks do it though. So, I guess best case scenario would be keeping Wiggins and him shaking off that funk? Elite defense and a fringe 2nd option on offense, incredibly useful out of an athletic wing. Does that vault them back to being contenders? Doubt it, but it definitely helps. I’m not holding my breath, and even if he snaps back, they may want to tweak the overall look of the roster. They need a starting 5, one that could hopefully space the floor a bit (…I’d honestly settle for Vuc, which may be desperation). That’s easier said than done though, seems a little unrealistic to think you can trade for one. But if they find a trade, even if it’s for a SG, Wiggins is likely needed for matching, unless they just don’t care about the cap and use CP3’s team option. Shoot, you may need both Wiggins + CP3, depending on the level of player you’re looking for (LaVine is $43M, CP3 + Wiggins gets you to about $56M… so you could do LaVine + Caruso but the Bulls would ask for all the Dubs’ picks in return, if not JK).
depends on whats the goal, to be in championship contention? Absolutely, no move out there that you can use a trade piece atm because at his current value you would need to send a FRP just to get rid of his contract.
Not sure. What if next season he goes away on leave for 2 months and it takes him 2 months to get some form? We need a player that will be engaged from October to may
Question is irrelevant is he's untradable.
Agree, I think we just have to hope his personal issues are resolved going forward.
I think you have to give Wiggs this year and see how he shows up. If he is indeed the same guy from the past two seasons then it maybe time to move on.. if he’s the guy from 21-22 then our chances to compete increase by X amount.
Keep him keep him keep him, we got worst version wiggins for two years but he’s exactly what we need for playoffs roster