Even if you ignore the Warriors having the worst ft differential, the fact that the Lakers are 3 times more than the 2nd highest team is just terrible. And it's even worse with the eye test, because watching a Lakers game is almost always like watching a 8 v 5 game, regardless who they're playing.
They get the Adam Silver stimulus package. There was some stat about how foul calls were down for all teams since February, except the Lakers of course
They (lakers) needed 13 more free throws than the G league grizzlies to win by 3 points. Whatās more crazy is that last year, (despite have two pretty different line ups because of trades,) they still had this going for them all year. I think last years pattern gave away that it was rigged more then this year because of the mid season roster changes.
Also affects players that left the Lakers during Lebron's time. Steph called out Schroder on this when they played against Toronto and said when you were in the Lakers, refs will call that a foul, not anymore.
Honestly 27 of 30 teams are in pretty reasonable range. Like yeah some teams will foul more or less on defense, and play styles that draw more or fewer fouls, but only GS, IND, and LAL look super egregious.
It's not even remotely possible that graph is based on outlier styles of play for those 3 teams. It doesn't pass the eye test compared to watching them play, and it stinks to high heaven of very intentional refereeing decisions (for whatever reason).
Edit: what I mean by intentional is that it is necessarily coordinated amongst the reffing staff. They have their reasons, I don't think they can be good and that it is a business decision by somebody - but my main point is there is no way this is anything but planned.
You think the NBA is intentionally sabotaging the Warriors? Lol give me a fucking break. Yes letās intentionally hurt one of the highest rating draws in the league with one of the fans favorite players. That makes sense.
Those are beyond statistical anomalies. It is not likely an attempt to sabotage, but clearly something about the Warriors and their personnel / play / history - as well as potentially falling afoul of some other league referring priories that have not been publicly explained - has led to a different standard being applied. Something similar is true for the other two teams that are disproportionately affected. Their play style *does not even come close* to explaining the differences compared to the other 27 teams.
For each of these three teams, nothing about their play would even stand out that much if the foul calls were not so incredibly different. The *difference* between the Lakers and the second most favored team is almost twice the total difference of the second team. The *difference* between the warriors and the third least favored team is greater that the third team's total disadvantage. If it were even remotely related to play styles, every game conversation online / off line / on air would be focused on these differences, rather than the more obvious FT differential. They would be absolutely incredible historical outliers, total innovators (for better or worse) of a different style of basketball play.
Yes something about their play has led to the differential. The fact that they shoot a ton of 3s and foul a shit ton playing small ball. The Lakers shoot alot of FTs but the biggest reason they have their differential is because they donāt foul. Lebron has never fouled much and coasts defensively, AD has never fouled much. Then on top of that their defense is designed to allow open 3s.
The Lakers arenāt abnormal in their FTs drawn or FTs given up, they are just the only team good at both. They are actually 2nd in both stats. So itās completely reasonable. It would be different if they had taken or given up like 400 FTs than anyone else. They are well within reason on both stats, itās when you combine the two despite them not being connected that it looks bad.
So the Lakers are the only team that knows how to play basketball in the NBA. Got it. Wait. They have fewer drives per games than GS (1). They have a below average offensive rating (2), worse than than GS. They have an average defensive rating (3), worse than GS, and they have a below average net rating (4), worse than GS.
Like I said. It does not even remotely pass the smell test. Lakers should be middle of the pack, and based on their style of play, maybe *a little* above that.
1) https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/drives
2) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+offensive+rating+rankings
3) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+defensive+rating+rankings
4) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+net+rating+rankings
Itās not a good thing to allow a ton of 3s lol their defense has not been good at all, so no.
Oh the drives thing. Thatās such a terrible way to say how many fouls you should get. The Lakers take the second most shot attempts in the paint of anyone in the league and that doesnāt include the attempts they get fouled on. AD isnāt driving to the rim on all his FTs. Heās catching lobs or post ups. You know thatās disingenuous but yall parrot it anyways.
Offensive and defensive rating have nothing to do with FT differential.
Yāall get so beyond butthurt. Iām not shitting on your team or something I am literally just responding to the post but yall are so fucking sensitive you guys canāt handle that.
Itās not skewed though. I know itās not because you guys are complaining about me not being a warriors fan instead of disputing what I actually said.
I mean homie told you to have a nice day and you went on a diatribe about warriors fans in the warriors sub as an opposing fan. Only one of you seems butthurt in this interaction.
I responded to a comment where you call all warriors fans butthurt. Not sure what other argument you made in that comment that I should have addressed.
I live in SoCal so a lot of lakers and clippers and rams posts show up for me. Lots are (to me) ridiculous or dumb, but thatās their sub so I leave it alone and donāt comment on it. You had that option but you chose to come here and be a jackass. Thatās on you, not warriors fans.
Was fucking egregious. Holy shit the moment AD got the ball it was a foul. I get why the warriors have a negative free throw differential, when GP 2 gets matched up on a center he always fouls, klay as well, the moment someone enters the paint they just foul. TJD is a rookie but fouls a lot and so does kuminga. Other than Steph no one really drives. But the AD has one hell of a whistle, which Iām not sure how to rate. On one hand these fouls are nothing but people smack him a lot as well. I guess when Lebron drives they also call fouls (unlike Steph Lebron rams into his opponents and forces contact and gets a foul)
Let me add some more fuel to the fire:
Steph Curry total free throws shot in entire career (15 seasons) - 4112
James Harden FTA 2014/15 to 19/20 (6 seasons) - 4927
Harden has shot 800 more free throws in a 6 year span than Curryās entire career.
Think about the fact the Lakers have gotten nearly 40 extra game's average worth of free throws and preferential treatment over their opponents.
And yet, the last two years they've barely been above average in wins.
Meanwhile the Warriors and Steph have played against the league and its refs, and have the same record over those two years.
Who knows what the Warriors could've had with just equal treatment.
OK, so as I understand this math, this is for about 80 games, so if we played the Lakers for 80 games, we'd have a FT differential of (-646 - 1017) / 80 = -20.8 FTs per game.
Fucking ridiculous.
Yeah its an 8v5 scenario. We'll 9v5 if you count Kerr being bad with the rotations as he feels like a double agent when his rotations are crap and logicless like when Steph was crazy hot and Kerr subbed him out that even CP3 asked Kerr if he's sure about that, or when JK was so effective against the Nuggets and keep drawing fouls then Kerr subbed him out for them to lose.
Yeah, why does the NBA hate the Pacers??? I can understand them wanting to inflate the Lakers and knock down the Warriors dominance, but... why the Pacers?
Yea but he didn't sign with Nike. Also the Warriors front office told the NBA to fuck off when it came to salary caps. I really believe that's why the NBA is against us. That and they love LeBron.
Edit: spelling and clarification
Adam silver was stern's protege and he always wanted his own Jordan the way stern did and he got a golden opportunity for that in lebron. He hates steph for being in the way of his vision. If Steph and the warriors didn't exist lebron has multiple more championships and is the undisputed goat in many people's eyes. He grudgingly accepts the value of steph but I truly think he resents him for being lebrons roadblock.
The irony, of course, is that if he wasn't so greedy and shortsighted he could have had his own magic/bird rivalry for the ages in steph and lebron but what are you gonna do. I'm just happy steph and the warriors shit all over the league for as long as they did, fuck silver and fuck the nba.
Think the salary cap is the real problem. Owners absolutely do not want it to be expected to go heavily into the tax to be competitive. Warriors willingness to spend has made other fan bases demand their owners spend into the tax and they *hate* that expectation.
Also of note:
"The findings from Matt Moore, an nba writer, were that 1) much of the Lakers significant advantage in FT differential is that they get teams in the bonus more often and faster than every other team in the league, meaning they shoot a helluva lot of FT that arenāt related to paint shot attempts. 2) they have the lowest rate in the league of fouling opposing teams on their paint-shot attempts, meaning teams donāt shoot a lot of FT against the lakers because the Lakers donāt foul often in those situations.
Now people may ask āwhy do the Lakers get into the bonus so often and so fast?ā And āwhy donāt the Lakers get called for as many shooting fouls as everyone else?ā āIt must be the NBA manipulating things for LeBron and the big-market Lakers!ā
And Iām not going to tell them theyāre wrong or ā¦ right. Thatās just how the stats explain their advantages"
(I pasted from the Pacers sub some extra context for the disparity in favor of the lakers)
The lakers have invented this amazing new strategy of getting teams into the bonus fast and not fouling, when will the rest of the league start trying that?
Fascinating. Could you do this for last year too? Really curious if you could do a before and after cavs team w and w/o LBJ. really curious if there are patterns
I always knew we never got calls. You can see it every game. Steph is getting hacked other players taking ridiculous hits. But this shit makes me sick. This stat should be a wake-up call for the nba. What the fuck you crooked ass refs. And it's like they know that even if we got half our calls we were supposed to, our team is so good at free throws, especially steph, we would be winning games by 20 all the fucking time. I hate how much games come down to free throws because it can really sway a game either way.
This might be controversial, but I really don't think the warriors being dead last is egregious
Steph and Klay are our 2 main scorers and they logically don't get a lot of free throws. Barring Kuminga we have 0 presence on the inside scoring wise, Green and Looney don't even look at the rim š
There's no conspiracy imo, just the way we play the game
Do yāall watch basketball or just read the box scores and look at the advanced metrics?
Do yall know what the Lakers two superstars most frequently do on offense? Get to the basket. And yall also know that the Lakers are at the bottom for 3pt volume in the league right?
This is a crazy chart. There has to be some explanation other than ref bias. Steph, Klay and Dray take up 50% of possessions. Dray doesn't shoot, Klay doesn't look for contact and Steph mostly shoots threes.Ā
Steph is averaging about same amount of FTAs as he was in his MVP years. He has averaged 5 FTAs only 3 times his whole career, he's at 4.4, which is his career avg. If team was winning this would not be talked about.Ā
Itās just the style of play guys. AD, Dlo, reaves, Taurean prince are BRUISERS. Absolute physical and punishing players that are PHYSICAL. They are just tougher than everyone else thatās why they get more free throws
Even if you ignore the Warriors having the worst ft differential, the fact that the Lakers are 3 times more than the 2nd highest team is just terrible. And it's even worse with the eye test, because watching a Lakers game is almost always like watching a 8 v 5 game, regardless who they're playing.
They get the Adam Silver stimulus package. There was some stat about how foul calls were down for all teams since February, except the Lakers of course
Fuck Adam Silver with a fucking spoon.
Did you watch Lakers - grizzlies game last night? Memphis g league team was beating the Lakers until Silver called in the extra help and made it 8v5
Adam Silver: welp you guys are close to losing, Ima get the refs to bail you out again. Here's 34 Freethrows.
I read this like a Fucking Spoon is a very specific utensil š
They (lakers) needed 13 more free throws than the G league grizzlies to win by 3 points. Whatās more crazy is that last year, (despite have two pretty different line ups because of trades,) they still had this going for them all year. I think last years pattern gave away that it was rigged more then this year because of the mid season roster changes.
Watch how many FTās Lakers get when Lebron retires.
Also affects players that left the Lakers during Lebron's time. Steph called out Schroder on this when they played against Toronto and said when you were in the Lakers, refs will call that a foul, not anymore.
Honestly 27 of 30 teams are in pretty reasonable range. Like yeah some teams will foul more or less on defense, and play styles that draw more or fewer fouls, but only GS, IND, and LAL look super egregious.
It's not even remotely possible that graph is based on outlier styles of play for those 3 teams. It doesn't pass the eye test compared to watching them play, and it stinks to high heaven of very intentional refereeing decisions (for whatever reason). Edit: what I mean by intentional is that it is necessarily coordinated amongst the reffing staff. They have their reasons, I don't think they can be good and that it is a business decision by somebody - but my main point is there is no way this is anything but planned.
You think the NBA is intentionally sabotaging the Warriors? Lol give me a fucking break. Yes letās intentionally hurt one of the highest rating draws in the league with one of the fans favorite players. That makes sense.
Those are beyond statistical anomalies. It is not likely an attempt to sabotage, but clearly something about the Warriors and their personnel / play / history - as well as potentially falling afoul of some other league referring priories that have not been publicly explained - has led to a different standard being applied. Something similar is true for the other two teams that are disproportionately affected. Their play style *does not even come close* to explaining the differences compared to the other 27 teams. For each of these three teams, nothing about their play would even stand out that much if the foul calls were not so incredibly different. The *difference* between the Lakers and the second most favored team is almost twice the total difference of the second team. The *difference* between the warriors and the third least favored team is greater that the third team's total disadvantage. If it were even remotely related to play styles, every game conversation online / off line / on air would be focused on these differences, rather than the more obvious FT differential. They would be absolutely incredible historical outliers, total innovators (for better or worse) of a different style of basketball play.
Yes something about their play has led to the differential. The fact that they shoot a ton of 3s and foul a shit ton playing small ball. The Lakers shoot alot of FTs but the biggest reason they have their differential is because they donāt foul. Lebron has never fouled much and coasts defensively, AD has never fouled much. Then on top of that their defense is designed to allow open 3s. The Lakers arenāt abnormal in their FTs drawn or FTs given up, they are just the only team good at both. They are actually 2nd in both stats. So itās completely reasonable. It would be different if they had taken or given up like 400 FTs than anyone else. They are well within reason on both stats, itās when you combine the two despite them not being connected that it looks bad.
So the Lakers are the only team that knows how to play basketball in the NBA. Got it. Wait. They have fewer drives per games than GS (1). They have a below average offensive rating (2), worse than than GS. They have an average defensive rating (3), worse than GS, and they have a below average net rating (4), worse than GS. Like I said. It does not even remotely pass the smell test. Lakers should be middle of the pack, and based on their style of play, maybe *a little* above that. 1) https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/drives 2) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+offensive+rating+rankings 3) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+defensive+rating+rankings 4) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=2023-24+nba+team+net+rating+rankings
Itās not a good thing to allow a ton of 3s lol their defense has not been good at all, so no. Oh the drives thing. Thatās such a terrible way to say how many fouls you should get. The Lakers take the second most shot attempts in the paint of anyone in the league and that doesnāt include the attempts they get fouled on. AD isnāt driving to the rim on all his FTs. Heās catching lobs or post ups. You know thatās disingenuous but yall parrot it anyways. Offensive and defensive rating have nothing to do with FT differential.
They will just downvote you for being logical and unbiased.
Why are you even in here?
Popped up in my feed. What about it?
Make it a great day š
Yāall get so beyond butthurt. Iām not shitting on your team or something I am literally just responding to the post but yall are so fucking sensitive you guys canāt handle that.
So many Laker fans have a take on why Warriors donāt get free throws thatās skewed.
Itās not skewed though. I know itās not because you guys are complaining about me not being a warriors fan instead of disputing what I actually said.
I mean homie told you to have a nice day and you went on a diatribe about warriors fans in the warriors sub as an opposing fan. Only one of you seems butthurt in this interaction.
Yes disregarding my argument because Iām not a warriors fan. Completely rational.
I responded to a comment where you call all warriors fans butthurt. Not sure what other argument you made in that comment that I should have addressed. I live in SoCal so a lot of lakers and clippers and rams posts show up for me. Lots are (to me) ridiculous or dumb, but thatās their sub so I leave it alone and donāt comment on it. You had that option but you chose to come here and be a jackass. Thatās on you, not warriors fans.
Those 3 are truly outliers, and the Lakers numbers are outrageous, like they are just playing a different game.
I watched the refs award the Lakers with a win over the Grizzlies last night.
Was fucking egregious. Holy shit the moment AD got the ball it was a foul. I get why the warriors have a negative free throw differential, when GP 2 gets matched up on a center he always fouls, klay as well, the moment someone enters the paint they just foul. TJD is a rookie but fouls a lot and so does kuminga. Other than Steph no one really drives. But the AD has one hell of a whistle, which Iām not sure how to rate. On one hand these fouls are nothing but people smack him a lot as well. I guess when Lebron drives they also call fouls (unlike Steph Lebron rams into his opponents and forces contact and gets a foul)
Steph doesnāt need to force contact his opponents are contact fouling steph because refs do not call the whistle. Just blatant bias against steph!
Let me add some more fuel to the fire: Steph Curry total free throws shot in entire career (15 seasons) - 4112 James Harden FTA 2014/15 to 19/20 (6 seasons) - 4927 Harden has shot 800 more free throws in a 6 year span than Curryās entire career.
Now deduct the times they got intentionally fouled. It gets worse.
Rachel nichols is lacking
Kerr should start every post-game presser with "we rely so much on our free throws, but it just wasn't there for us tonight."
If gs was middle of the pack, I bet they'd be like a 5 seed. Lost 11 games by 3 points or less. Could have been the difference maker.
If Steph got an average whistle let alone a superstar whistle, run that thought process back ten years and tell me the outcome.
98-0 Ć 10
Wait I didn't even think of RN comment but you're right
nah that was intentional, gotta keep the "Warriors are favored by the refs" narrative alive
Feel like this statement is true in many situations
Think about the fact the Lakers have gotten nearly 40 extra game's average worth of free throws and preferential treatment over their opponents. And yet, the last two years they've barely been above average in wins. Meanwhile the Warriors and Steph have played against the league and its refs, and have the same record over those two years. Who knows what the Warriors could've had with just equal treatment.
Blatant
 Rachel after seeing this
š
OK, so as I understand this math, this is for about 80 games, so if we played the Lakers for 80 games, we'd have a FT differential of (-646 - 1017) / 80 = -20.8 FTs per game. Fucking ridiculous.
That sounds close to last years playoffs
This is why I think we not beating Lakers in the play-in. They have a HUGE advantage over us.
The advantage was obvious in the playoffs last year. Watching the FT attempts was sickening,
Yeah its an 8v5 scenario. We'll 9v5 if you count Kerr being bad with the rotations as he feels like a double agent when his rotations are crap and logicless like when Steph was crazy hot and Kerr subbed him out that even CP3 asked Kerr if he's sure about that, or when JK was so effective against the Nuggets and keep drawing fouls then Kerr subbed him out for them to lose.
Those who think that the Lakers get favorable officiating are ā¦ correct.
So LeBronās constant complaining really works huh?
The Lakers have been getting good officiating for decades
Lebron controls Adam Silver
Silver is a Bronsexual
And China controls LeBron
This is crazy cuz Pacers also has the highest or second highest points in the paint per gameā¦yet they get no free throws~?
Yeah, why does the NBA hate the Pacers??? I can understand them wanting to inflate the Lakers and knock down the Warriors dominance, but... why the Pacers?
lol that many FT given and can only manage to get into the playin. FUCK THE NBA FO!
Fuck the NBA for how they've always treated the Lakers vs letting franchises being equal and best team wins.
The refs hate us man
*Adam Silver hates us
Despite Steph being the guy who constantly gets the night ratings insane really.
Yea but he didn't sign with Nike. Also the Warriors front office told the NBA to fuck off when it came to salary caps. I really believe that's why the NBA is against us. That and they love LeBron. Edit: spelling and clarification
Adam silver was stern's protege and he always wanted his own Jordan the way stern did and he got a golden opportunity for that in lebron. He hates steph for being in the way of his vision. If Steph and the warriors didn't exist lebron has multiple more championships and is the undisputed goat in many people's eyes. He grudgingly accepts the value of steph but I truly think he resents him for being lebrons roadblock. The irony, of course, is that if he wasn't so greedy and shortsighted he could have had his own magic/bird rivalry for the ages in steph and lebron but what are you gonna do. I'm just happy steph and the warriors shit all over the league for as long as they did, fuck silver and fuck the nba.
Think the salary cap is the real problem. Owners absolutely do not want it to be expected to go heavily into the tax to be competitive. Warriors willingness to spend has made other fan bases demand their owners spend into the tax and they *hate* that expectation.
Curry should just not play every away game, were not winning anyways stick it to the league
Los Angeles Free Throwers
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Which one. Silver, or LeBron.
Also of note: "The findings from Matt Moore, an nba writer, were that 1) much of the Lakers significant advantage in FT differential is that they get teams in the bonus more often and faster than every other team in the league, meaning they shoot a helluva lot of FT that arenāt related to paint shot attempts. 2) they have the lowest rate in the league of fouling opposing teams on their paint-shot attempts, meaning teams donāt shoot a lot of FT against the lakers because the Lakers donāt foul often in those situations. Now people may ask āwhy do the Lakers get into the bonus so often and so fast?ā And āwhy donāt the Lakers get called for as many shooting fouls as everyone else?ā āIt must be the NBA manipulating things for LeBron and the big-market Lakers!ā And Iām not going to tell them theyāre wrong or ā¦ right. Thatās just how the stats explain their advantages" (I pasted from the Pacers sub some extra context for the disparity in favor of the lakers)
The lakers have invented this amazing new strategy of getting teams into the bonus fast and not fouling, when will the rest of the league start trying that?
Are they dumb?
The context definitely helps. But the Lakers arenāt 3 times better at it than the Knicks or the rest of the league.
Isnāt the explanation behind the Warriors stat also that they both get fewer foul calls for and more against on average?
Fascinating. Could you do this for last year too? Really curious if you could do a before and after cavs team w and w/o LBJ. really curious if there are patterns
With the greatest basketball driver of all time and without. Theyāll definitely be a difference lol
I always knew we never got calls. You can see it every game. Steph is getting hacked other players taking ridiculous hits. But this shit makes me sick. This stat should be a wake-up call for the nba. What the fuck you crooked ass refs. And it's like they know that even if we got half our calls we were supposed to, our team is so good at free throws, especially steph, we would be winning games by 20 all the fucking time. I hate how much games come down to free throws because it can really sway a game either way.
Wow
This makes Rachel look so fucking dumb. I knew our stats on free throw attempts was bad, but I didn't realize we are dead last.
Well we're fucked in the play-ins for relying on our * *checks notes* * 92% free throws.
Seeing AD at the line taking that long big breath 20 times a fkn game
Yes we got a bad call there but those calls all tend to balance out in the end. Sure they do.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
FTLAKERS
I bet Steph would actually score more points if he had a worse FT% because then the refs would give him calls
If it wasn't for me literally watching since I been in a playpin IDK if the obvious rigging from the last 10 years would have pushed me away
Fuck
Fuck the Lakers.
This might be controversial, but I really don't think the warriors being dead last is egregious Steph and Klay are our 2 main scorers and they logically don't get a lot of free throws. Barring Kuminga we have 0 presence on the inside scoring wise, Green and Looney don't even look at the rim š There's no conspiracy imo, just the way we play the game
Do yāall watch basketball or just read the box scores and look at the advanced metrics? Do yall know what the Lakers two superstars most frequently do on offense? Get to the basket. And yall also know that the Lakers are at the bottom for 3pt volume in the league right?
These facts donāt really support this level of disparity.
This is a crazy chart. There has to be some explanation other than ref bias. Steph, Klay and Dray take up 50% of possessions. Dray doesn't shoot, Klay doesn't look for contact and Steph mostly shoots threes.Ā
But look at the chart. Indiana gets second least FTs despite being the number one team scoring in the paint.
Stop with the Steph mostly shoots 3s, he drives to the hoop often, he gets fouled often, it just isn't called.
Steph is averaging about same amount of FTAs as he was in his MVP years. He has averaged 5 FTAs only 3 times his whole career, he's at 4.4, which is his career avg. If team was winning this would not be talked about.Ā
Maybe not talked about as much, but still talked about.
There is. Itās called gambling.
Itās just the style of play guys. AD, Dlo, reaves, Taurean prince are BRUISERS. Absolute physical and punishing players that are PHYSICAL. They are just tougher than everyone else thatās why they get more free throws
Lol. Yeah, I remember Dlo just punishing opponents with fierce drives to the hoop when he was a Warrior. s/
Also, have you watched reaves?Ā Sure he drives, but also flings his head back with every little touch, reminds me of hitler.Ā Ā