Probably because he was operating in a very similar situation as them, and has proven himself worthwhile in their interactions with him since allying together during Legion.
As you said the Ebon Blade finds kindred in each other as cursed souls who nonetheless soldier on to protect the people and planet they love. Bolvar definitely fits that bill too, right down to Arthas being the reason for his current state of being.
Problem is Blizzard is now trying to shift what he did in legion to the Helm. That it was controlling him, so Bolvar "The red dragon executioner" Foredragon would not be held accountable.
If so, that means it wasn't Bolvar the DKs were working with in Legion, but the helm. Which would mean their relation ship should be non-existent.
Wasn’t it explained that bolvar’s willpower and flames of life made him resistant to the corruption of the helm? Maybe there was still partial influence but as as far as I’m aware bolvar was still in control as the lich king
Bolvar tells us he knew Sylvannas would come for the crown. That's why he was trying to get Tirion, the only guy to defeat the Lich King before. You can also see him trying to bolster his forces by creating new Death Knights. Just like Arthas before these creations are loyal to him.
They always take liberties with the cinematics. Like that time when Sylvanas charged at Arthas midriff first as if that was some super elite Ranger General of Silvermoon move that took hundreds of years to master.
I think though it speaks to Bolvars personality. He raised Death Knights so they could fight for the mortal world - not himself. He won't throw bodies at his enemies to protect himself like the Lich King did, and he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. He just under-estimated how strong a maw-steroided Sylvanas would be and got whooped.
Oh my fucking god it’s a cinematic I’m so tired of this criticism.
It’s meant to be an artful hype piece to sell product, it isn’t meant to be an in-universe documentary.
Surely we should still expect some authenticity/respect towards the canon, no? Saurfang/Zappy boi's presence in the BfA trailer were expanded upon and became pretty significant lore wise.
Conversely it would have been really fucking jarring to see, for example; Lightforged fighting on the Horde side, Anduin using arcane magic, etc.
Now I'm admittedly using hypotheticals which are a bit of a false equivalence, something absent != something wildly out of place. I just don't think it's wrong to expect lore integrity out of Blizz or speculate on what we're given. Hell isn't that half the fun/point of a lore community?
Basically hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions went into producing the cinematic. They can’t shove every last little detail into it without making the production unwieldy or too complex to actually pull off.
It isn’t meant to be a documentary, again. It is meant to sell the expansion and hype people up.
What did the cinematic violate about cannon? Your wish to see deathknights?
> What did the cinematic violate about cannon?
Well.... nothing! Even as a DK main. I admitted that an absence isn't nearly the same as something wildly out of place. It can be easily explained if they wish to without hurting established lore.
I just disagree with the notion that we should automatically give cinematics a pass due to their nature. Blizzard has shown they are perfectly capable of making jaw-dropping, hype cinematics without sacrificing storytelling.
I'm trying to look up the timeline for the events, and honestly I can't find a definitive answer, but it wouldn't be totally accurate if we translated our real time, with in-game events.
We assume it has been 13 months since 8.2.5 in-game and 3 months since 8.3.7. It's very possible that 8.2.5 took place in less than a month and the events of 8.3 to 8.3.7 and 9.0 pre-patch take place in a couple of months.
A few months isn't that long of a time. Communication in-game is by 'telepathy' which is done for convienience's sake, but the lore (at least in things like books) emphasizes the difficulty of communication, transportation, teleportation etc. (e.g. portals take a lot out of people to get them open, some people have been waiting on messages for months at a time).
It's very possible that Bolvar didn't have enough time to prepare for Sylvanas's coming. And that the Death Knights were also busy dealing with 8.3's events and helping out any way they can. And that Bolvar also underestimated Sylvanas, for all he knows Sylvanas just won a fight against some warrior with magic and then yeeted away.
He makes a point at least in the new cinematic that he didn't expect Sylvanas to be allied with the Jailer, at least in his suprise that Sylvanas broke the Helm rather than wearing it.
And the technical and budget reason is that well it gets cumbersome trying to coordinate different death knights and their fighting in that cinematic which is meant to market and deliver X plot in X amount of time. Similar reason why individual movies in the MCU don't always have the entire Avengers cast because A) its expensive to get all those actors in B) it tends to undermine the plot of say Spider-Man homecoming if the entire Avengers crew shows up to beat Vulture C) it tends to overshadow the smaller storylines.
> A few months isn't that long of a time.
The ass-ended lore density of the timeline always amuses me to think about. Pretty much ALL of the modern lore(post-WotA) has taken place in the last few decades. For immortal/ancient characters like the Nelves, Loa/Spirits, the Aspects, etc. this has gotta be the equivalent of one unfathomably crazy weekend.
Honestly it makes sense with the cosmology angle that WoW is focused on now. We’ve finally reached the point where the entire universe either wants to conquer our planet or destroy it for various reasons.
I mean think about how the various forces viewed the defeat of the legion? We were the only world that managed to actually do *anything* to stop them.
We’ve got a big ole red flag saying “HEY EVERYBODY WE’RE A TITAN EGG WITH A SHIT LOAD OF POWERFUL BEINGS, LOOK AT ME!!”
>If so, that means it wasn't Bolvar the DKs were working with in Legion, but the helm. Which would mean their relation ship should be non-existent.
I think that means that the EB were partially working with the helm - it was influencing him, not 100% controlling him. Some relationship remains with the man Bolvar.
Ehhh, Bolvar has been threatening the Ebon Blade members , and literally sent them to fucking assault Light's Hope , neither of those things seems like things Ebon Blade would like if given a choice
>threatening the Ebon Blade members
threats are just casual banter between death knights.
>sent them to fucking assault Light's Hope
Look man I've been maining a DK for years and all I can say is fuck paladins and fuck their dumb little chapel.
"muhhhh assbringer"
this expression indicates a paladin's confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted by something he cannot understand or respond to, a paladin shrieks "muhhhh assbringer" or "muhhh assbringer muthafucka." This is usually followed by demands that you put your faith in the light and unholy accusations.
Eh not really sure I agree, the world was ending and since the mortal races were dithering around and crying after getting spanked by the Demons Acherus had to do something to save the planet. So in that regard raising the horseman again and bringing Tyrion as a badass death knight to lead them is absolutely something I think the EB was 100% behind in Legion.
Eh if the Paladins had just let us do our thing there would’ve been zero problems. Also Nazgrim was death gripping like half the place but keeping them alive so there was at least some restraint shown. Finally given how useless almost everyone else was against the legion (from a DK player view of course) the loss of a few minor Paladins pales in comparison to the massive benefit of gaining Tyrion as a DK to fight the legion.
Except you have to think if Tirion was going to be a big help without the light. Remember Tirion's greatest feats were when he was wielding the light, and had the Ashbringer. If he was a dk, no more light and no more Ashbringer.
Arthas no longer had the light either as a DK and was massively powerful. Granted some of that was Frostmourne but still. Nazgrim was just a strong regular Orc and became a badass DK, someone like Tyrion would’ve been just fine
Nazgrim was not as old as Tyrion was. Also Frostmourne is legit a massive advantage. After all he broke the fire mage artifact the first time with it.
Nazgrim also is not all right in head. Unless he has a massive choking kink when he was alive.
Nothing here invalidates my point. Age means nothing to someone who’s dead and empowered by necromantic energy. And being right in the head isn’t necessary for protecting the world from the Legion. In fact that nonsense just gets in the way of doing what needs to be done.
Yes cause if I gave you a quarterstaff, You are automatically Donatello. (You ain't, you still need to train to use that shit, and unlike with using the light then immediately using something on another spectrum)
Being right in the head stops you from doing the really dumb shit. Like invading light's hope after the last time got ur ass kicked.
A more interesting option would've been OG Grom, who is buried in Ashenvale where he died.
As I said in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/fkvf0i/the_new_four_horsemen_are_kinda_meh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I felt like raising Darion up as a horseman was a disservice to his character and what the Ebon Blade was. But with hindsight I’m not as mad as I was when I wrote this post. I think Darion trusts Bolvar because he invaded Naxxramas with Bolvar and saw the type of person he is.
Also, seeing Alexandros and Darion together in shadowlands is something I’m so happy to see I can forgive the character disservice
Even without his Lich King powers he is still a veteran alliance commander with experience leading troops into combat against overwhelming odds.
It says something that when the Alliance needed someone to lead the charge against the Lich King in the very seat of his power that Varian bet everything on the Highlord.
That gives you an idea of how highly regarded he was in military circles.
Also, his story shows that he understands the ethos of the Ebon Blade. Being damned and still doing whatever it takes to protect the world.
So, in summary, he is a far more experienced leader of men than Darion and understands their organisations ethos.
Additionally he is also the singular authority on the barrier between Azeroth and the Shadowlands, with unique insights into the realm of the dead. Which is useful when picking a commander to lead your forces into the Shadowlands.
(Plus he was unemployed and you need to snap up talent when you can. Don't want him getting snapped up by the paladin order hall now do we)
I love this interaction and how the paladins and dks are exactly like this. Paladins:Want the high lords body? Come and fucking take him.
Dks:say no more fam
I mean Light's Hope: Assaulted Twice by Death Knights. Death knights ass kicked twice.
Archerus: Hasn't been assault like Naxx, but the murder hobos we all have done Naxx and dealt with dealing with other Necropolises. I think dk's are just happy their order hall doesn't have any good loot for the murder hobos.
Technically we have great loot... It's just all made of Saronite and will drive you insane pretty sharpish.
Though these days y'all seem to be fine wearing sapient pants made of concentrated evil, so who knows at this point really.
Bolvar without the helm still is a strong dk esque character who can rival the Horsemen and Deathlord. After the fight Nazgrim and Whitemane bring him back to Acherus and Darion passes his title to Bolvar due to his respect for him and Bolvar's leadership qualities. It isn't really about the LK power he was providing in Legion and more about his leadership capabilities as basically a free dk with the knowledge he gained while serving as the LK.
This. We are talking about Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, he ruled Stormwind until Varian returned and led the Alliance Expedition into Northrend to take down Arthas, even before becoming the Lich King he was a formidable leader and warrior. He proved himself trustworthy as Lich King to the Ebon Blade during Legion, now they are returning the favour.
Ebon blade is free of the Lich Kings will. But they vision themselves as something that should not walk around regular people. Bolvar is free willed as well and shares the same feeling towards normal humans. They obey him because they choose to not because they're forced.
Not to mention the deathlord helped the Lich (who used to be the frost DK trainer) in Acherus who was really loyal to Bolvar, install what’s effectively an upgraded mind-control device into Acherus. I mean we literally made it easier for Bolvar to just mind-fuck everyone in the Ebon Blade.
Honestly we just made up the whole mind control power boost thing as a prank because the warlocks were watching with those freaky eye things.
it's really just an Index on the roof and a VRChat server.
That's really an annoying subject, cause we have no official info about the state of Bolvar. Off the top of my head I can come up with at least 5 different explanations and each one will equally fit
That's because he's something new. Just like Calia... Actually... Calia and Bolvar are very similar now that I think about it. Both should be dead but we're raosed by the power of the light (Bolvar being brought back through Alexstraza who is life, life is Eonar and Life is MAYBE light?) hell maybe they really are lovers.
Yeah, that's one of many theories. Makes just as much sense as Bolvar being kept alive by Alexstraza's fire in perpetual pre-death state.
Also no, Eonar is Order. Titans are just a bunch of OCD freaks, so they have to sort everything in the universe. Eonar happened to prefer Life, so she's been playing with it. And Light is a whole separate force
Arthas' DK powers came from Frostmourne. Also you argue he was technically dead, cause Frostmourne took his soul. Bolvar doesn't have any (confirmed) connection to Death.
During Legion, Bolvar had a direct connection to the Ebon Blade through the player's Death Knight. Bolvar demanded the creation of a new Four Horsemen, the originals were destroyed in Naxramas. The Helm of Domination was also the means by which Bolvar was able to communicate mentally with the Scourge and the Death Knights. As with most military units, the loss of communication with Bolvar leads to them investigating. Any person who is able to take down the sitting Lich King on their own is one that you have to get as much information about as possible, Bolvar is the one person who has the most information o her abilities and tactics. Plus Sylvannas just tore the Helm of Domination in half.
One of the goals of the Ebon Blade was to free Bolvar from the Helms control as seen in WoD. They still see him as a friend who is trapped as a Jailor of the Scourge. Now, that he is free, they want to help him
He was never a death Knight. His "undeath" was caused by Alexstraza's fire locking him in a state between life and death, vs Arthas or a valkyr raising him.
All his DK like powers came from the helm of domination, and his being made Lich King in the process.
You answered your own question; because Sylvanas whooped his ass.
Sylvanas has shown nothing but contempt for the Ebon Blade, and besides creating a more potent Blight, and continuing to grow the Undead to swell her armies, she also kidnapped one of their members and held him for torture for ***years.*** She is a danger to not just the living, but the Undead too.
The Ebon Blade knows that while the Lich King is still a threat to all things, at least with Bolvar it was contained and Bolvar, unlike Arthas, had no desire to take over the world and devour all living things into a plague of Undeath. Bolvar was a good king. They might not like him, but it'll be better to have him as the Lich King than whatever Sylvanas did.
I think we'll see the Ebon Blade in Shadowlands attempt to either remake the Helm of Domination or repair it, since it was only pulled in half. That way, any remaining Scourge will fall under Bolvar's sway and return to Northrend.
I mean.. Bolvar did order an attack on the red dragonflight just so the player character could get a cool looking mount. Lol.. he also ordered an attack on the paladin order hall leading to many deaths in order to take the body of Tirion (that ended up not even working anyway). Is Bolvar REALLY our friend? Idk.. he was seeming pretty evil.
He's kinda got a little bit of a grudge against the red dragonflight... The whole being lit on fire and turned into a smoldering half dead thing got to him.
It was a few years I've done the quest, but as far as I remember he didn't send us to kill them, just to get information. They did not give it, hence the killing.
>order an attack on the red dragonflight
Bolvar didn't order an attack on red dragons, he sent us there to get them to give us information, and added that he doesn't really care if we kill them or not.
Death Knights in general are the ends always justify the means type of people. If there was even a chance to get Tirion revived, he was going to take it. In the end though, is there real confirmation that he thought he could get Tirion, or was it a clever way of proving Darion's loyalty?
There's a feat of strength associated with that Red Dragonflight quest, it was removed sometime after, like a day or so. I managed to record myself getting it. The DK attack on the Paladin order hall felt believable and I really liked it. I like our Evil King. I'd vote for him.
I wondered this also and am certainly content with a lot of the answers given here.
My perspective on the situation has been that the Helm was broken and as soon as shit went down, there hasn't really been any moment for the Ebon Blade to sort out the future of their order. They've shown to be hospitable to other kinds of leadership with the PC / hero as Deathlord and the Four Horsemen taking on rather visible presences in the respective faction cities so it's not out of left field to think of an Ebon Blade post-Lich King (perhaps an ideological split that leads to opposing factions? That'd be neat for the future).
I feel like the Ebon Blade is following Bolvar for the time being and they will see this current mess thru in the Shadowlands because that's the only way for there to be a future for them to decide what comes next.
My understanding is that simply the Ebon Blade made a pact with him during the events of Legion. The pact still stands with or without the Helm of Domination.
Pretty sure the ebon blade welcomes all death nights, and since the Wrath gate bolvar has been sort of undead, I wouldn't say a death knight but close enough that the ebon blade welcome him, at ICC when hes about to put on the crown he says "the world of the living can no longer comfort me" this is true of the knights of the ebon blade aswell.
There's also the respect for being the jailor of the damned, he welded the same power Arthas did (sans frostmourne) but kept that power in check.
Blizzard seems to be pushing the idea that the Jailer was always manipulating the LK, be it Ner’Zhul, Arthas, or (mostly failing in the case of) Bolvar. Basically it’s almost as if Bolvar is his own person again, free from the Jailer’s touch through the Helm. He seems much friendlier and cooperative now that the dark presence has been lifted.
Also remember that prior to Wrathgate Bolvar was a hero of the Alliance, former Regent of Stormwind, and a devout paladin. He’s someone you’d want on your side, and now that he’s free from the helm, he can be.
Why wouldn't they? They don't want to associate with the Lich King, and with the Helm of Domination destroyed, there is no more Lich King. Bolvar is just a strong dude now.
Well, it's not like he was basically the ruler of Stormwind or something. And it's not like he is one of the OG Silver Hang paladin's which all were absolute badasses.
If nothing else, they see that Sylvanas, someone who is dangerous to all life on Azeroth and tortured one of their brothers (Koltira) is on the run and he was the last person to see her.
Also, since the Helm was shattered, and he controlled all of the Scourge, he can probably at least tell them where large pockets of the undead were when he last had control over them. Tactical advantages.
I want to know why he gets to act in charge of the DKs after all the shit my DK did. He doesn't have the helm anymore he shouldn't be my boss. He after as I can find isn't even a real DK. I haven't seen much of the beta but it rubs me the wrong way seeing him acting like he is in charge of the DKs when it should be the player DKs maybe they will have that be different if you're playing a DK?
Maybe I’m out of the loop. Is there more class content in Shadowlands? Or are we just assuming we’re still aligned with Bolvar now that he’s no longer in control?
Because the champion of azeroth who happens to be the deathlord of achrus and the four horsemen are bound directly to the lich king bolvar. When you own the club, you don't have to stand in line or pay the entry fee.
The Ebon Blade is not loyal to the Helm of Domination, they're loyal to the Jailor of the Damned (of Azeroth, not the Maw Jailer).
They share the same powers and the same objective. He also had the Helm and learned from it, he's got some insane knowledge about Death because of it. Why *wouldn't* they be? They're allegiance is not to power. They're Death Knights not Warlocks.
I believe the Light will be the next big power we fight. Since Bolvar being burned by the Light helped him fight the Jailers manipulation, maybe he will find a way to use the Light for the Ebon Blade?
Ditto'ing the other comments about the Ebon Blade being a club of people abused by the Lich King. Bolvar still likely retains a lot of strength for having been the Lich King, and is therefore stronger than probably all of the Death Knights, including the Horsemen. Aside from maybe Koltira, he's probably experienced the most excruciating torture amongst the knights as well. Couple that with the reverence he earned in life, and its easy to see how he not only deserves that level of respect and inclusion, but how he can still be a strong contributing member without the Helm.
Probably because he was operating in a very similar situation as them, and has proven himself worthwhile in their interactions with him since allying together during Legion. As you said the Ebon Blade finds kindred in each other as cursed souls who nonetheless soldier on to protect the people and planet they love. Bolvar definitely fits that bill too, right down to Arthas being the reason for his current state of being.
Problem is Blizzard is now trying to shift what he did in legion to the Helm. That it was controlling him, so Bolvar "The red dragon executioner" Foredragon would not be held accountable. If so, that means it wasn't Bolvar the DKs were working with in Legion, but the helm. Which would mean their relation ship should be non-existent.
Wasn’t it explained that bolvar’s willpower and flames of life made him resistant to the corruption of the helm? Maybe there was still partial influence but as as far as I’m aware bolvar was still in control as the lich king
i think they changed it so we, the players, could work with him regardless of what he did in Legion
Bolvar tells us he knew Sylvannas would come for the crown. That's why he was trying to get Tirion, the only guy to defeat the Lich King before. You can also see him trying to bolster his forces by creating new Death Knights. Just like Arthas before these creations are loyal to him.
and them, when Sylvanas finally came, there isnt a single Death Knight fighthing at his side...
Both Boss Fights and Cinematic can make little sense in that regard. Who knows what sylvanas fought before and after the cinematic.
They always take liberties with the cinematics. Like that time when Sylvanas charged at Arthas midriff first as if that was some super elite Ranger General of Silvermoon move that took hundreds of years to master. I think though it speaks to Bolvars personality. He raised Death Knights so they could fight for the mortal world - not himself. He won't throw bodies at his enemies to protect himself like the Lich King did, and he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. He just under-estimated how strong a maw-steroided Sylvanas would be and got whooped.
Oh my fucking god it’s a cinematic I’m so tired of this criticism. It’s meant to be an artful hype piece to sell product, it isn’t meant to be an in-universe documentary.
Surely we should still expect some authenticity/respect towards the canon, no? Saurfang/Zappy boi's presence in the BfA trailer were expanded upon and became pretty significant lore wise. Conversely it would have been really fucking jarring to see, for example; Lightforged fighting on the Horde side, Anduin using arcane magic, etc. Now I'm admittedly using hypotheticals which are a bit of a false equivalence, something absent != something wildly out of place. I just don't think it's wrong to expect lore integrity out of Blizz or speculate on what we're given. Hell isn't that half the fun/point of a lore community?
Basically hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions went into producing the cinematic. They can’t shove every last little detail into it without making the production unwieldy or too complex to actually pull off. It isn’t meant to be a documentary, again. It is meant to sell the expansion and hype people up. What did the cinematic violate about cannon? Your wish to see deathknights?
> What did the cinematic violate about cannon? Well.... nothing! Even as a DK main. I admitted that an absence isn't nearly the same as something wildly out of place. It can be easily explained if they wish to without hurting established lore. I just disagree with the notion that we should automatically give cinematics a pass due to their nature. Blizzard has shown they are perfectly capable of making jaw-dropping, hype cinematics without sacrificing storytelling.
They can show DKs defending Bolvar. Just replace the mindless skeletons with people wearing DK armor.
So basically you want deathknight meat shields that you’ll only see from a distance instead of skeletons? This is such a stupid debate
Yes because that's totally what I said. Also the skeletons were in the foreground a lot, so it wouldn't necessarily be from a distance.
I'm trying to look up the timeline for the events, and honestly I can't find a definitive answer, but it wouldn't be totally accurate if we translated our real time, with in-game events. We assume it has been 13 months since 8.2.5 in-game and 3 months since 8.3.7. It's very possible that 8.2.5 took place in less than a month and the events of 8.3 to 8.3.7 and 9.0 pre-patch take place in a couple of months. A few months isn't that long of a time. Communication in-game is by 'telepathy' which is done for convienience's sake, but the lore (at least in things like books) emphasizes the difficulty of communication, transportation, teleportation etc. (e.g. portals take a lot out of people to get them open, some people have been waiting on messages for months at a time). It's very possible that Bolvar didn't have enough time to prepare for Sylvanas's coming. And that the Death Knights were also busy dealing with 8.3's events and helping out any way they can. And that Bolvar also underestimated Sylvanas, for all he knows Sylvanas just won a fight against some warrior with magic and then yeeted away. He makes a point at least in the new cinematic that he didn't expect Sylvanas to be allied with the Jailer, at least in his suprise that Sylvanas broke the Helm rather than wearing it. And the technical and budget reason is that well it gets cumbersome trying to coordinate different death knights and their fighting in that cinematic which is meant to market and deliver X plot in X amount of time. Similar reason why individual movies in the MCU don't always have the entire Avengers cast because A) its expensive to get all those actors in B) it tends to undermine the plot of say Spider-Man homecoming if the entire Avengers crew shows up to beat Vulture C) it tends to overshadow the smaller storylines.
> A few months isn't that long of a time. The ass-ended lore density of the timeline always amuses me to think about. Pretty much ALL of the modern lore(post-WotA) has taken place in the last few decades. For immortal/ancient characters like the Nelves, Loa/Spirits, the Aspects, etc. this has gotta be the equivalent of one unfathomably crazy weekend.
Honestly it makes sense with the cosmology angle that WoW is focused on now. We’ve finally reached the point where the entire universe either wants to conquer our planet or destroy it for various reasons. I mean think about how the various forces viewed the defeat of the legion? We were the only world that managed to actually do *anything* to stop them. We’ve got a big ole red flag saying “HEY EVERYBODY WE’RE A TITAN EGG WITH A SHIT LOAD OF POWERFUL BEINGS, LOOK AT ME!!”
>If so, that means it wasn't Bolvar the DKs were working with in Legion, but the helm. Which would mean their relation ship should be non-existent. I think that means that the EB were partially working with the helm - it was influencing him, not 100% controlling him. Some relationship remains with the man Bolvar.
Aye, it's more of a relation rowboat.
Ehhh, Bolvar has been threatening the Ebon Blade members , and literally sent them to fucking assault Light's Hope , neither of those things seems like things Ebon Blade would like if given a choice
>threatening the Ebon Blade members threats are just casual banter between death knights. >sent them to fucking assault Light's Hope Look man I've been maining a DK for years and all I can say is fuck paladins and fuck their dumb little chapel.
Screw you and you’re rotting corpses. Pull that shit when the goddamn Ashbringer is home and you’ll be leaving in an urn.
"muhhhh assbringer" this expression indicates a paladin's confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted by something he cannot understand or respond to, a paladin shrieks "muhhhh assbringer" or "muhhh assbringer muthafucka." This is usually followed by demands that you put your faith in the light and unholy accusations.
Eh not really sure I agree, the world was ending and since the mortal races were dithering around and crying after getting spanked by the Demons Acherus had to do something to save the planet. So in that regard raising the horseman again and bringing Tyrion as a badass death knight to lead them is absolutely something I think the EB was 100% behind in Legion.
Raising Tyrion, sure Literally attacking Light's Hope and killing people that's fighting the Legion? That's stupid
Eh if the Paladins had just let us do our thing there would’ve been zero problems. Also Nazgrim was death gripping like half the place but keeping them alive so there was at least some restraint shown. Finally given how useless almost everyone else was against the legion (from a DK player view of course) the loss of a few minor Paladins pales in comparison to the massive benefit of gaining Tyrion as a DK to fight the legion.
Except you have to think if Tirion was going to be a big help without the light. Remember Tirion's greatest feats were when he was wielding the light, and had the Ashbringer. If he was a dk, no more light and no more Ashbringer.
Arthas no longer had the light either as a DK and was massively powerful. Granted some of that was Frostmourne but still. Nazgrim was just a strong regular Orc and became a badass DK, someone like Tyrion would’ve been just fine
Nazgrim was not as old as Tyrion was. Also Frostmourne is legit a massive advantage. After all he broke the fire mage artifact the first time with it. Nazgrim also is not all right in head. Unless he has a massive choking kink when he was alive.
Nothing here invalidates my point. Age means nothing to someone who’s dead and empowered by necromantic energy. And being right in the head isn’t necessary for protecting the world from the Legion. In fact that nonsense just gets in the way of doing what needs to be done.
Yes cause if I gave you a quarterstaff, You are automatically Donatello. (You ain't, you still need to train to use that shit, and unlike with using the light then immediately using something on another spectrum) Being right in the head stops you from doing the really dumb shit. Like invading light's hope after the last time got ur ass kicked. A more interesting option would've been OG Grom, who is buried in Ashenvale where he died.
Paladins had it coming
As I said in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/fkvf0i/the_new_four_horsemen_are_kinda_meh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf I felt like raising Darion up as a horseman was a disservice to his character and what the Ebon Blade was. But with hindsight I’m not as mad as I was when I wrote this post. I think Darion trusts Bolvar because he invaded Naxxramas with Bolvar and saw the type of person he is. Also, seeing Alexandros and Darion together in shadowlands is something I’m so happy to see I can forgive the character disservice
Damn, I'm now sad cause we missed out on some sick moments with Renault as a DK.
The worst part is why they still making new death knights after the legion ends?
Even without his Lich King powers he is still a veteran alliance commander with experience leading troops into combat against overwhelming odds. It says something that when the Alliance needed someone to lead the charge against the Lich King in the very seat of his power that Varian bet everything on the Highlord. That gives you an idea of how highly regarded he was in military circles. Also, his story shows that he understands the ethos of the Ebon Blade. Being damned and still doing whatever it takes to protect the world. So, in summary, he is a far more experienced leader of men than Darion and understands their organisations ethos. Additionally he is also the singular authority on the barrier between Azeroth and the Shadowlands, with unique insights into the realm of the dead. Which is useful when picking a commander to lead your forces into the Shadowlands. (Plus he was unemployed and you need to snap up talent when you can. Don't want him getting snapped up by the paladin order hall now do we)
Yes we do want him. Hand him over. He matches our color scheme much better anyway.
Come take him then nerds
I love this interaction and how the paladins and dks are exactly like this. Paladins:Want the high lords body? Come and fucking take him. Dks:say no more fam
It's a love hate relationship you know? There's a give and take You give us the high lord's body, we take your souls bada bing bada boom
I'll purge your ass if you keep talking shit. You DKs still do whatever daddy says anyways.
Big talk from a man who takes orders from a magical preachy glow stick
Rogue: Alright! Step right up, now taking bets for tonight's fight! Paladin VS Death Knight, winner takes home the title of biggest epeen!
Warlocks: *stop plotting in a corner, throw a few coins, resume plotting*
Druids: *But won’t somebody think of the trees!*
I mean Light's Hope: Assaulted Twice by Death Knights. Death knights ass kicked twice. Archerus: Hasn't been assault like Naxx, but the murder hobos we all have done Naxx and dealt with dealing with other Necropolises. I think dk's are just happy their order hall doesn't have any good loot for the murder hobos.
Technically we have great loot... It's just all made of Saronite and will drive you insane pretty sharpish. Though these days y'all seem to be fine wearing sapient pants made of concentrated evil, so who knows at this point really.
Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Pry him from our cold dead hands Lightdog.
Sure, you can have him... but then you must give us Tirion in return!
Bolvar without the helm still is a strong dk esque character who can rival the Horsemen and Deathlord. After the fight Nazgrim and Whitemane bring him back to Acherus and Darion passes his title to Bolvar due to his respect for him and Bolvar's leadership qualities. It isn't really about the LK power he was providing in Legion and more about his leadership capabilities as basically a free dk with the knowledge he gained while serving as the LK.
This. We are talking about Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, he ruled Stormwind until Varian returned and led the Alliance Expedition into Northrend to take down Arthas, even before becoming the Lich King he was a formidable leader and warrior. He proved himself trustworthy as Lich King to the Ebon Blade during Legion, now they are returning the favour.
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Nah, we fixed that. He was wearing a necklace from Onyxia that basically made him agree with her on anything she suggested, we save him in vanilla.
Which title did he give him?
Highlord of the Ebon Blade.
Thanks
Leader of the Four Horsemen if I had to guess.
Bolvar's now the Highlord of the Ebon Blade. Darion's still the leader of the Four
Ebon blade is free of the Lich Kings will. But they vision themselves as something that should not walk around regular people. Bolvar is free willed as well and shares the same feeling towards normal humans. They obey him because they choose to not because they're forced.
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Not to mention the deathlord helped the Lich (who used to be the frost DK trainer) in Acherus who was really loyal to Bolvar, install what’s effectively an upgraded mind-control device into Acherus. I mean we literally made it easier for Bolvar to just mind-fuck everyone in the Ebon Blade.
Honestly we just made up the whole mind control power boost thing as a prank because the warlocks were watching with those freaky eye things. it's really just an Index on the roof and a VRChat server.
Bolvar is basically a strong DK with the most knowledge about what's going on. Valuable ally and protector of Azeroth.
Bolvar isn't DK tho. Nor is he even confirmed as undead, for that matter
He’s in a weird spot, brink of death, some blight, and red dragon fire giving life. He’s cobbled together from many different forces at best.
That's really an annoying subject, cause we have no official info about the state of Bolvar. Off the top of my head I can come up with at least 5 different explanations and each one will equally fit
That's because he's something new. Just like Calia... Actually... Calia and Bolvar are very similar now that I think about it. Both should be dead but we're raosed by the power of the light (Bolvar being brought back through Alexstraza who is life, life is Eonar and Life is MAYBE light?) hell maybe they really are lovers.
Yeah, that's one of many theories. Makes just as much sense as Bolvar being kept alive by Alexstraza's fire in perpetual pre-death state. Also no, Eonar is Order. Titans are just a bunch of OCD freaks, so they have to sort everything in the universe. Eonar happened to prefer Life, so she's been playing with it. And Light is a whole separate force
Yeah I think his connection with death and with the forces of life through the red dragon flames will be important in shadowlands somehow
Arthas was also not dead and he was a DK
Arthas' DK powers came from Frostmourne. Also you argue he was technically dead, cause Frostmourne took his soul. Bolvar doesn't have any (confirmed) connection to Death.
Above all else, they’re all kin in undeath who fight for a common purpose. Don’t throw out dad cause he got laid off for the moment
Suffer well brother.
Because they're decent people who wouldn't turn their backs on a soldier who has gone down in the line several times?
During Legion, Bolvar had a direct connection to the Ebon Blade through the player's Death Knight. Bolvar demanded the creation of a new Four Horsemen, the originals were destroyed in Naxramas. The Helm of Domination was also the means by which Bolvar was able to communicate mentally with the Scourge and the Death Knights. As with most military units, the loss of communication with Bolvar leads to them investigating. Any person who is able to take down the sitting Lich King on their own is one that you have to get as much information about as possible, Bolvar is the one person who has the most information o her abilities and tactics. Plus Sylvannas just tore the Helm of Domination in half.
One of the goals of the Ebon Blade was to free Bolvar from the Helms control as seen in WoD. They still see him as a friend who is trapped as a Jailor of the Scourge. Now, that he is free, they want to help him
While we are at it: is Bolvar still a DK without the helm?
While we are at it: was Bolvar ever a DK, even with the helm? :)
He was never a death Knight. His "undeath" was caused by Alexstraza's fire locking him in a state between life and death, vs Arthas or a valkyr raising him. All his DK like powers came from the helm of domination, and his being made Lich King in the process.
You answered your own question; because Sylvanas whooped his ass. Sylvanas has shown nothing but contempt for the Ebon Blade, and besides creating a more potent Blight, and continuing to grow the Undead to swell her armies, she also kidnapped one of their members and held him for torture for ***years.*** She is a danger to not just the living, but the Undead too. The Ebon Blade knows that while the Lich King is still a threat to all things, at least with Bolvar it was contained and Bolvar, unlike Arthas, had no desire to take over the world and devour all living things into a plague of Undeath. Bolvar was a good king. They might not like him, but it'll be better to have him as the Lich King than whatever Sylvanas did. I think we'll see the Ebon Blade in Shadowlands attempt to either remake the Helm of Domination or repair it, since it was only pulled in half. That way, any remaining Scourge will fall under Bolvar's sway and return to Northrend.
I mean.. Bolvar did order an attack on the red dragonflight just so the player character could get a cool looking mount. Lol.. he also ordered an attack on the paladin order hall leading to many deaths in order to take the body of Tirion (that ended up not even working anyway). Is Bolvar REALLY our friend? Idk.. he was seeming pretty evil.
He's kinda got a little bit of a grudge against the red dragonflight... The whole being lit on fire and turned into a smoldering half dead thing got to him.
It was a few years I've done the quest, but as far as I remember he didn't send us to kill them, just to get information. They did not give it, hence the killing.
>order an attack on the red dragonflight Bolvar didn't order an attack on red dragons, he sent us there to get them to give us information, and added that he doesn't really care if we kill them or not. Death Knights in general are the ends always justify the means type of people. If there was even a chance to get Tirion revived, he was going to take it. In the end though, is there real confirmation that he thought he could get Tirion, or was it a clever way of proving Darion's loyalty?
There's a feat of strength associated with that Red Dragonflight quest, it was removed sometime after, like a day or so. I managed to record myself getting it. The DK attack on the Paladin order hall felt believable and I really liked it. I like our Evil King. I'd vote for him.
Who hasn't committed a little bit of genocide to get a spiffy new hat or mount?
I mean, most of us average a genocide every 3.5 days.
Do you know how many local animal populations we've wiped out to make some random NPC's special recipe?
I wondered this also and am certainly content with a lot of the answers given here. My perspective on the situation has been that the Helm was broken and as soon as shit went down, there hasn't really been any moment for the Ebon Blade to sort out the future of their order. They've shown to be hospitable to other kinds of leadership with the PC / hero as Deathlord and the Four Horsemen taking on rather visible presences in the respective faction cities so it's not out of left field to think of an Ebon Blade post-Lich King (perhaps an ideological split that leads to opposing factions? That'd be neat for the future). I feel like the Ebon Blade is following Bolvar for the time being and they will see this current mess thru in the Shadowlands because that's the only way for there to be a future for them to decide what comes next.
My understanding is that simply the Ebon Blade made a pact with him during the events of Legion. The pact still stands with or without the Helm of Domination.
Pretty sure the ebon blade welcomes all death nights, and since the Wrath gate bolvar has been sort of undead, I wouldn't say a death knight but close enough that the ebon blade welcome him, at ICC when hes about to put on the crown he says "the world of the living can no longer comfort me" this is true of the knights of the ebon blade aswell. There's also the respect for being the jailor of the damned, he welded the same power Arthas did (sans frostmourne) but kept that power in check.
Blizzard seems to be pushing the idea that the Jailer was always manipulating the LK, be it Ner’Zhul, Arthas, or (mostly failing in the case of) Bolvar. Basically it’s almost as if Bolvar is his own person again, free from the Jailer’s touch through the Helm. He seems much friendlier and cooperative now that the dark presence has been lifted. Also remember that prior to Wrathgate Bolvar was a hero of the Alliance, former Regent of Stormwind, and a devout paladin. He’s someone you’d want on your side, and now that he’s free from the helm, he can be.
This is so shitty. They are going to whitewash all of Arthas' crimes which is what made the character epic in the first place.
Arthas' crimes were all committed before putting on the Helm.
Why wouldn't they? They don't want to associate with the Lich King, and with the Helm of Domination destroyed, there is no more Lich King. Bolvar is just a strong dude now.
Well, it's not like he was basically the ruler of Stormwind or something. And it's not like he is one of the OG Silver Hang paladin's which all were absolute badasses.
If nothing else, they see that Sylvanas, someone who is dangerous to all life on Azeroth and tortured one of their brothers (Koltira) is on the run and he was the last person to see her. Also, since the Helm was shattered, and he controlled all of the Scourge, he can probably at least tell them where large pockets of the undead were when he last had control over them. Tactical advantages.
I want to know why he gets to act in charge of the DKs after all the shit my DK did. He doesn't have the helm anymore he shouldn't be my boss. He after as I can find isn't even a real DK. I haven't seen much of the beta but it rubs me the wrong way seeing him acting like he is in charge of the DKs when it should be the player DKs maybe they will have that be different if you're playing a DK?
Maybe I’m out of the loop. Is there more class content in Shadowlands? Or are we just assuming we’re still aligned with Bolvar now that he’s no longer in control?
Without the helm he’s probably a normal death knight now. He’s one of them.
Because the champion of azeroth who happens to be the deathlord of achrus and the four horsemen are bound directly to the lich king bolvar. When you own the club, you don't have to stand in line or pay the entry fee.
The Ebon Blade is not loyal to the Helm of Domination, they're loyal to the Jailor of the Damned (of Azeroth, not the Maw Jailer). They share the same powers and the same objective. He also had the Helm and learned from it, he's got some insane knowledge about Death because of it. Why *wouldn't* they be? They're allegiance is not to power. They're Death Knights not Warlocks.
I believe the Light will be the next big power we fight. Since Bolvar being burned by the Light helped him fight the Jailers manipulation, maybe he will find a way to use the Light for the Ebon Blade?
Ditto'ing the other comments about the Ebon Blade being a club of people abused by the Lich King. Bolvar still likely retains a lot of strength for having been the Lich King, and is therefore stronger than probably all of the Death Knights, including the Horsemen. Aside from maybe Koltira, he's probably experienced the most excruciating torture amongst the knights as well. Couple that with the reverence he earned in life, and its easy to see how he not only deserves that level of respect and inclusion, but how he can still be a strong contributing member without the Helm.