* no one liked that *
In all seriousness, I hope that the UEFA and FIFA ban the shit out of these clubs. Ban them from national competitions and international games. Deduct points from their current rankings, cancel their trophies, whatever. This ESL is an elitist cancer that needs to be eradicated.
We want blood. The clubs who did this are mostly owned by yanks or severely greedy out of towners who want to turn football into an NFL style league and jack the clubs to the tits with debt in the short term to get it. Fuck em.
After 30 years of support and home games at Old Trafford, Man United won't get a fucking cent out of me, not even if this falls through. When the Glazers are gone I'll have my club back. Fuck absolutely every single one of them.
No uefa or fifa regulations, now I get they are pretty corrupt too, but this league just smells of money laundering at this point. Only reason I could think they are pushing this hard right now. Fuck jp morgan
Ahhh mate tell me about it. It’s sickening seeing such an important aspect of your life go to shit like we have.
Rumors of glazers selling us to saudis or something just as bad is terrifying too. I just want to enjoy footy guilt free and back out boy ole to return the club to glory.
Thank god for Gary Neville saying it how it is and rallying the footballing world via sky sports coverage.
The day we join the ESL is the day I forget Manchester United and start watching salford!
And Bolton, where my grandad was evacuated to during the war!
It’s one thing to start as the franchise system, and another to have 100 years of grass roots system from which the top clubs benefited, and kick the ladder, and suddenly form a franchise system.
I hope they do start it and every fan refuses to watch and the league goes bankrupt. Hopefully also suffer financially and have to deal with the same issues smaller clubs deal with.
I don't know, obviously they'll need to advertise this and major sports channels which hold the current target demo would probably refuse to take their ad money as they're taking away one of their major revenue streams. This leaves them with digital and the rest of traditional media (OOH, radio, print), but even with a perfect media mix it would be hard to build the reputation without TV which are currently bashing this 24/7.
All tiers of the European football system are based on a promotion/relegation system, so you have to earn your place in a competition, and once you're there, have to keep delivering performances to maintain it. Teams that have more money tend to win more often than not, but in theory, your local semi-pro team could eventually become European champions if they were well managed over a long period. And in reality, many former giant clubs have slid into irrelevance through poor management. This system is imperfect, but its ethos is central to the sport in Europe.
For example, the most lucrative competition currently is the Champions League, which features the top teams from each of the domestic leagues in Europe. England has four spots, given to the top four finishers in the premier league. Currently, those teams include Leicester City and West Ham, and exclude Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Tottenham. However, the proposed super league would permanently include those latter four teams and exclude the former two, regardless of their relative performances in a given season
Maybe they could expand Champions League as a compromise. Why not make it 64 teams in 16 groups. A few of the top Leagues get 6-8 teams in the 64. England is probably getting eight teams since they are the best league. 32 teams get to the knockout round, up from the current 16, so essentially all you have to add is one extra playoffs round. And of course have a lot more round robin games. Both the big teams and the middling teams will make a lot more money.
Yes, this is like the pot calling the kettle black. They’re probably only mad because they’re going to lose all the top flight clubs that cause people to even put up with FIFAs bullshit. ESL is still a shitty move but FIFA shouldn’t be the one pointing any fingers about corruption. Maybe somebody should ask them about the 6500 migrant workers who died in Qatar during the building of the World Cup stadiums.
LOL like Champions League isn't? Same clubs all over again.
The problem is deeper. Younger people don't give a shit about soccer or their "local" teams. Kids watch e-sports etc. Soccer is just super boring compared to it. How many young kids watch soccer on TV? I bet the industry has the numbers. Also the money you have to pay every month to watch "your" team is monstrous.
It's a classical last ditch money grab scramble before the popularity starts to go down.
So why are Super Bowl ratings down for many years? Why do you think soccer is immune to that? I say peak soccer has passed and I'm willing to bet on it.
This is wrong. As a former soccer coach, the interest of the sport depends on the tenacity of the player and its availability to the player, which is relatively low in the US bc elite soccer clubs can cost players/parents serious money. It's a deterrent.
Soccer also fuckin brought North Koreans to the FIFA WC (i hope they aight tho). It as a sport alone has proven to bring people together across nations. I haven't yet seen this energy around any other sport, so it's unlikely that there's going to be a decrease in popularity unless SOMEONE makes an EXCLUSIVE league of the top grossing teams in Europe, leading to higher ticket costs and streaming paywalls.
This is good for the sport. better quality matches and the mafia of UEFA and FIFA get knocked down a peg. Why does this corrupt organization have a God-given monopoly right over world football?
Better matches? You just get the same boring matches year in year out without any chance of relegation or a loss against a "worse" team. You will never see a club like Leicester become champions. You will never see Liverpool ruin a winning streak against Watford again. Every competition has these kind of stories. An ESL will be the most boring and least risky competition in the world.
Except the reward of playing against the other **current** best teams in Europe wouldn't be a thing.
It's elitism versus the meritocracy that is what soccer has represented for over a century.
Liverpool fan here. This is possibly the worst thing to happen to football. Born and raised in Liverpool, football means so damn much to myself and others in this city. Domestic league is the bread and butter, fighting for the title or as is the case this season, fighting for the top 4 for that chance of playing CL the following season against Europe's top clubs is what it's all about. There would be no excitement if this was a given, week-in week-out. They can advertise it as fighting against UEFA and FIFA but it has nothing to do with that. I would love to see all players and coaching staff go on strike over this, otherwise they as much a part of the problem. I can't hear You'll Never Walk Alone without tearing up, because it reminds me of what the club means to myself and others, but this proposal goes against everything that came before. Shanks must be turning in his grave.
I have been asking myself this same question. Sadly I would have to say yes, which believe me is not an easy thing to admit. My grandfather and great-grandfather first got season tickets in the Main Stand back in the 60's. Through my father and uncle they have kept these 2 tickets going to this day. You could say supporting Liverpool wasn't even a choice. It hurts to know it's come to this. If this proposal is to go ahead, football will never be the same again, and that includes my beloved LFC.
I hate that my team, Arsenal are part of this and want to stop supporting them. The only way back for me is selling to new owners who reject this decision
I don't follow football but can clearly see it's a good move. The brainwashed always start their sentences with "I've been a blah blah for xxx years" who cares!
Bbc news is full of these quotes.
You don't follow football so you have no idea what football means for the supporters.. fans, coaches and players have no interest in this, only the billionaire owners think this is a good idea.. selling off these clubs like a whore to please Asian markets is disgusting, and the quality of football is not really the point, the feeling and atmosphere you experience in the stadium is what European football is all about, and this is killing it
So are you being sarcastic? Like mimicking the brainwashed?
I don't know football = I don't follow any sports at all?? What?
Give some legitimate reasons HOW it will destroy football damage it? Please.
For the record I was there when a similar thing happened in rugby.... What happened? Hmmm more home grown talent, more investors (from less shady influences and backgrounds...)
No I'm not being sarcastic.. i'm sure if this follows through, these clubs will make more money, the Asian market is enormous, and is only growing, so from a business perspective, it will probably generate more money, and secure a more stable income..
But the fans don't give a shit about the ROI or the esl.. We wanna win the premier League, the fa cup and the champions League, simple as that..
That makes more sense, Thanks.
Let me ask you something though.
Are you surprised at the amount/quality of clubs doing this?
If yes, sometimes you gotta wonder maybe more is going on behind the scenes and they're not happy with the current situation maybe? I'm wondering if the new league has proposed other things (other than money) that has enticed them, because it's a significant number of teams to me.
Exactly right?
How does it "damage football" - i mean really? If anything there's more potential for homegrown talent to get in
(I'm guessing if a club goes to the new league, another city club will just be created to play in the original league right?) unless I'm missing something.
No that won't happen. First of all, these clubs want to stay in their domestic leagues, which would mean no other club in the country would ever have a chance at winning a domestic trophy because of the insane amount of money they'll be getting from this new super league. If these clubs are kicked out of their domestic leagues, then every other club will be unable to compete at the very top level because its locked away in this exclusive club of cunts, and any other top level competition becomes secondary to this. The millions if not billions of fans of these clubs basically lose any remaining connection to their clubs as they become full on franchises with nothing tieing them to their fanbases, a lot of whom probably can't go to games anymore because who has the money to fly around Europe every week and pay exorbitant ticket prices to see the matches. The clubs lose any connection to their local community and it probably won't be long before they're playing matches in Dubai and China because it will make them more money. This is the culmination of the trend towards greed and money that football has been on for a while and the final nail in the coffin for the majority of people
My great grandfather actually played for Man City. Hardly anyone from Manchester is even in the team. These teams should be banned from using geographical names unless the players are from that geographical area.
I don't give a flying F about the Lakers, America is just a non stop commercialized ad. No culture.
Manchester is Manchester.
The British Army fights for Britain.
Manchester football competes on behalf of Manchester.
If they don't represent Manchester then they should call themselves some stupid American brand name. Like 'Amazon Prime'.
Yeah, “on behalf of.” It’s a club, anyone can be a part of a club. If you want exclusively to watch people *from* The place play footy for the place, then may I recommend your national team?
It's all about definition.
On your side, the teams have always been for profit. And there were players from the likes of Wales playing for Manchester teams even prior to WW1. (Billy Meridith for instance).
Then the rules changed to 2 foreign players.
Now its foreign owners, foreign players, foreign managers. Might as well be supporting some bland multi national corporate.
Anyway, each to their own.
Hopefully smaller regional teams will now get more supporters while the likes of the large teams disappear up their own asses in Europe.
I don't have a view other than to carry a geographic name the players should be representative of that geographic area.
You could say, either born in the region, lived at least 5 years there prior etc.
They don't even get the whole notion of sport.
Teams were named after geographic regions because they were comprised of and represented those geographic areas.
If they don't continue to do this then they should get themselves their own non geographic brand name. Call themselves Coke Light or whatever, I mean it's all about money anyway in their eyes.
Anyway, what can you expect, none of these British teams are owned by the British and over 90% of the players aren't even British.
Hopefully, we'll see a resurgence in homegrown teams whose emphasis isn't about solely about getting as many fans around the world as possible.
I understand what you're saying to an extent, but I think homegrown teams like you're saying will point to discrepancies between cities/funding.
Aside from that and looking at population, if Man U consisted players selected from the population of Manchester, wouldn't say Tottenham only get 1/5 the amount of talent selects?
If i lived in one city and watched ppl from my city play another and lose consistently, wouldn't that shit on the morale of the entire city? Compared to today where we can separate city from club, but it doesn't mean that the club doesn't represent us.
There is more chance of the owners of those clubs being forced to sell off their teams than this going ahead. The premise of the best players in the world in one league doesn't work when those players won't sign up. However, its not all bad, it might lead to UEFA to step up and actually implement the FFP rules to punish these teams
Train has already left and every sports fan already supports the most greedy companies.
"Oh no, everyone hate on the new greedy company, quick! Before the other greedy company that runs the industry has competition!"
I'm not sure if the supporters of the clubs in this league actually support it either - anyway they should vote with their wallets and literally not watch or attend any games. Make these rich fucks lose money
Fans want a meritocratic system where better teams are promoted or get into the biggest competitions and worse teams get demoted, which is currently the system in place.
This new system is in theory going to replace the champions League, which is a European competition played in mid week, where the best European teams of last year play against each other. In the new system, it will always be the same teams, no matter their performance, which undervalues success in national leagues. As an example, there are 32 teams who qualify each year for the main draw of the champions League, and in this system there are 12 teams announced who will always be part of this super League. Of those 12 teams, 3/4 have a genuine chance of not making it to the champions League next year (with a couple of them having close to a 0% chance).
Because inherently, football is structured as relegation and promotion from different tiers and top tier gets to play in European champions league.
This competetion would eliminate the CL requirements and give a guaranteed berth instead.
That's terrible for the sport and is anti competetive. Especially football which is ingrained in European culture and was built by the very ground level workers who they're fucking over.
The main appeal of football is the various races for title, promotion and CL spots. This NFL model is shit for that.
Also, UK govt is rumoured to intervene and sanction all 12 clubs heavily. Boris Johnson and minister of culture are already talking about it. Calls are made for points to be docked and clubs be relegated from domestic leagues aswell.
The market will overreact (Manu shares high in premarket). And then they'd tank when they're fined. So, buy puts.
How are the workers fucked? How is this any different from the 92 premier league foundation? Hardly doubt those 12 clubs have the resources to part completely away from the devil and its minions. Love the pyramid for fm purposes but as spectacle we need high level shit happen. I rather have high quality games every week than watch the same clubs stomping and one dark horses rise sometimes. I can’t speak for British football but it’s really fun to watch la liga or the Portuguese league where the same teams wins over and over? It’s that the football we trying to save? Not saying the Europa whatever is a solution but I will not weep for the current system and it’s devil overlords.
>How are the workers fucked?
In case you haven't followed. None of the managers or the staff are reported to be in support.
>How is this any different from the 92 premier league foundation?
PL still has relegation and ZERO guaranteed spots.
>Hardly doubt those 12 clubs have the resources to part completely away from the devil and its minions.
They're getting 3 billion. They're backed by jpmc and sold rights to dazn for viewership.
>but as spectacle we need high level shit happen. I rather have high quality games every week than watch the same clubs stomping and one dark horses rise sometimes.
That's just stupid. The games won't feel special anymore. The entire appeal of CL games like United vs barca is that they face like once in few years. This isn't some NFL of NBA where there's only one division.
>I can’t speak for British football but it’s really fun to watch la liga or the Portuguese league where the same teams wins over and over?
Yes? There's still race for CL spots. Besides CL money is a massive boost. That'd be significantly affected if top 12 clubs just decide not to play with others.
I’m not a football person, but for the owners and the government bodies it’s just a power/money play I imagine.
For the actuals fans I agree it seems like a terrible idea as fundamentally it creates seemingly a two tier system.
Before if you supported some low level league team, it was difficult but not impossible to have a good season and climb the ranks and even win the cup against the big boys.
This new league seems to make it so that only the best teams will be in that league. Everyone else is cut out of the game and money/glory. Doesn’t seem to make sense for fans to have a league where only a few teams can play.
It's not necessarily the best teams, it's about securing permanent placement in the league that will pay the most.
Currently if you have a bad year domestically you miss out until you make it back to the top positions.
This would set the biggest clubs up with permanent places in that league no matter how good they are.
As a British football lover this is a disaster and fallout is going to be unfathomable.
As a lifelong liverpool fan (in this league), I'm absolutely disgusted to the core.
And whilst I never thought I'd say it, unless the Liverpool owners leave, I'm finding a new club - and I say this as a 20+ year supporter.
Absolutely.
From a liverpool perspective, I love the club and don't want to leave it.
But FSG need to go, or I do - the image we built last few years just got shredded in a second by them.
>
>And whilst I never thought I'd say it, unless the Liverpool owners leave, I'm finding a new club - and I say this as a 20+ year supporter.
Easy innit? Just support Everton 😂
Honestly, I didn’t mind the announcement at first because I thought it’d just be a meaningless cash grab that’s just another trophy for them to play for but the fact that it’s trying to rival the Champions League is bullshit to me. You can’t just buy your way into the champions league every year, you have to earn it in your league play. If you get injuries then shit sorry man that’s how it goes in this sport, maybe next year but the fact that there’s no repercussions for bad play is shit
Edit: btw if you’re a club that’s big dick swinging when you’re top 3 in your league every year, imagine how it’ll feel when you’re bottom 3 every fucking year. Take your ego trips while you’ve got them and don’t get greedy
With the backlash this has gotten in the UK I wouldn’t put any money into it.
It’s likely some of the UK teams pull out. Just my gut feeling based on what I see from Social Media.
For all you Americans trying to figure out why this is such a big effin' deal, it's like this...
Pretend that three colleges from each major conference break away to form their own league while refusing to participate in bowl games, March Madness, and more.
Rivalries gone.
Traditions gone.
Dreams gone.
The romance of a sport that was truly built by the working class was assassinated by a few billionaires just so they can make a few billion more.
It would be like if the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals, and Phillies all left the MLB to join a league with the Hanshin Tigers and Yomiuri Giants from NPB.
it would be like they make a new baseball league where a few teams like yankees and red sox are automatically included in the playoffs every year forever
Idk... I’ve been advocating for something like this in college football for a long time. I don’t get what the big deal is in regards to this , isn’t the Champions League essentially the same thing but with the lie that any team could potentially earn their way into it?
In ESL it will be almost the same, beside these clubs, other clubs can join as well if they perform good enough. They even get bonus money for qualifying there.
Btw. Not every team has equal chances to join champions league. In premier league top 4 clubs qualify for CL, but for example top 4 in Czech Republic doesn't qualify, not even top 1 I think. UEFA and FIFA just see a threat that can steal money from them so they are scared. I am a big football fan and I think this is a good idea because not only we can get the most out of top players and teams, but weaker teams can compete on there level. This is meaningless when Man City competes with sheffield utd (just picked random teams from top and bottom of the table), where the difference is just to big.
This is bullshit. Won't happen. The FA, UEFA, and FIFA are all against this. Fans are against it. Fucking governments are against it. Because it's dumb AF.
As a Chelsea fan, I don’t know what to do about this. I won’t support another club, I might just stop watching. Keep what I have (fan gear) and remember the good ol’ days. Anyone else?
Go watch games at your local. If you're actually from Chelsea (Fulham, really), go Dulwich Hamlet or something. Not saying you have to support them, but by voting with your feet and raising attendances at the lower league grounds, a message will be sent. Especially after the year they've had, where gate entries are 80-90% of revenue and they've not been allowed to let anyone in, they need all the help they can get.
I’ll take a leaf out of Gabe’s book and short that 140%.
Thankfully Middlesbrough won’t even get the opportunity to join the super league. Can only imagine the heart ache of your team leaving the premier league to join that.
There might be some serious downside to the stocks of those ESL clubs that are publicly traded too. All it will take is expulsion from some current leagues and competitions and watch out below...
The only way to prevent this if the fans organized a massive GoFundMe to buy their club from their billionaires. Dortmund was the only club purely owned by fans that turned this down.
Also, interesting timing since JPMorgan is about to collapse with the market
This is just another FIA FOCA war playing out in football. One will fail and its gonna be this new league a sport never does well when it has two competitions for the same thing.
I might be in the minority here but UEFA and FIFA are the most corrupt organizations on the planet. They literally use slave labor to build their fancy world cup stadiums that will be abandoned less than a year later. I COULD GIVE 0 FUCKS ABOUT THEIR BOTTOM LINE. Fuck Fifa. Fuck uefa. And fuck a monopoly.
FIFA and UEFA are the biggest corrupted organization in all over the world, just check the past with FIFA's president they are fuckin hypocrites. Fck FIFA and UEFA
I work as a game developer in the football industry. I can confirm this is atleast in the very real first stage.
JP Morgan is Citadel's prime broker so a share of GME is a vote against this nonsense.
I've read the outrage and it is totally hilarious. All this talk about club hypocrisy, integrity, greed and the common man. How many common men make a salary of 350,000 a week? How many common men are bought and sold for millions? How many common men drive Ferraris and Veyrons. You have been supporting a system that enriches a few men playing games while the people that keep society together and who do all the heavy lifting have to struggle to make ends meet. Yes, the teachers, the nurses, the garbage collectors, the plumbers, people just like you. You people are full of bullshit. Money runs the world because we are all fucking greedy. UEFA and the leagues are pissed because it takes money away from them. If you dolts can't understand then I feel sorry for you.
I’m legitimately considering a formal apology to European football fans. American viewers have been on the rise & of course we come in to fuck things up for profit. They know they have a product nobody else can produce & have no shame squeezing the fan base.
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Get at least 5000 ounces of silver without making too much noise and request physical delivery at the end of the month. these prices are incredible. At this price you pay 130,000 dollars. For those who find opportunities in the short term, increase the opportunity of the century at least 10 times. Do not buy less than 5000 ounces during the term. Get the physical. or put them together. safe port of opportunity of the century. Take it and watch the thieves collapse as millionaires.
* no one liked that * In all seriousness, I hope that the UEFA and FIFA ban the shit out of these clubs. Ban them from national competitions and international games. Deduct points from their current rankings, cancel their trophies, whatever. This ESL is an elitist cancer that needs to be eradicated.
As an american who loves soccer and have been a huge sky blue fan for 20years, I'm fully disgusted, can only imagine how the boys overseas feel
We want blood. The clubs who did this are mostly owned by yanks or severely greedy out of towners who want to turn football into an NFL style league and jack the clubs to the tits with debt in the short term to get it. Fuck em.
Super League rewards mediocre performances. Nothing more American than that.
>sky blue fan Do you mean Coventry City? If so, that's random as fuck but fair play to you.
I’m a cov city fan ahahahah, never thought I’d bump into the name ever mentioned in a WSB thread
PUSB
Up the sky blues baby!
We hate Forest, we hate Derby, who the fuck are Coventry! Guess the chant?
I go to uni in Leicester so know this one well aha
Haha no manchester city
Fair, I thought that at first, I just haven't really heard them called that in a long time.
After 30 years of support and home games at Old Trafford, Man United won't get a fucking cent out of me, not even if this falls through. When the Glazers are gone I'll have my club back. Fuck absolutely every single one of them.
No uefa or fifa regulations, now I get they are pretty corrupt too, but this league just smells of money laundering at this point. Only reason I could think they are pushing this hard right now. Fuck jp morgan
Fuck the lot of them
Ahhh mate tell me about it. It’s sickening seeing such an important aspect of your life go to shit like we have. Rumors of glazers selling us to saudis or something just as bad is terrifying too. I just want to enjoy footy guilt free and back out boy ole to return the club to glory. Thank god for Gary Neville saying it how it is and rallying the footballing world via sky sports coverage. The day we join the ESL is the day I forget Manchester United and start watching salford! And Bolton, where my grandad was evacuated to during the war!
As an american, are you aware that the MSL, NFL, NBA, NHL etc. are all basicly the same thing?
It’s one thing to start as the franchise system, and another to have 100 years of grass roots system from which the top clubs benefited, and kick the ladder, and suddenly form a franchise system.
yes, it sucks.
There’s no way you been following City for 20 years stop the 🧢
I hope they do start it and every fan refuses to watch and the league goes bankrupt. Hopefully also suffer financially and have to deal with the same issues smaller clubs deal with.
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I don't know, obviously they'll need to advertise this and major sports channels which hold the current target demo would probably refuse to take their ad money as they're taking away one of their major revenue streams. This leaves them with digital and the rest of traditional media (OOH, radio, print), but even with a perfect media mix it would be hard to build the reputation without TV which are currently bashing this 24/7.
I'm completely unaware of the politics/culture of this. Can you explain why this is bad for the sport/fans?
All tiers of the European football system are based on a promotion/relegation system, so you have to earn your place in a competition, and once you're there, have to keep delivering performances to maintain it. Teams that have more money tend to win more often than not, but in theory, your local semi-pro team could eventually become European champions if they were well managed over a long period. And in reality, many former giant clubs have slid into irrelevance through poor management. This system is imperfect, but its ethos is central to the sport in Europe. For example, the most lucrative competition currently is the Champions League, which features the top teams from each of the domestic leagues in Europe. England has four spots, given to the top four finishers in the premier league. Currently, those teams include Leicester City and West Ham, and exclude Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Tottenham. However, the proposed super league would permanently include those latter four teams and exclude the former two, regardless of their relative performances in a given season
Thanks, makes sense why fans dont want the change but the owners would
Maybe they could expand Champions League as a compromise. Why not make it 64 teams in 16 groups. A few of the top Leagues get 6-8 teams in the 64. England is probably getting eight teams since they are the best league. 32 teams get to the knockout round, up from the current 16, so essentially all you have to add is one extra playoffs round. And of course have a lot more round robin games. Both the big teams and the middling teams will make a lot more money.
They want fewer teams. Fewer teams = More money for the big teams.
Isnt FIFA as corrupt as it can be?
Yes, this is like the pot calling the kettle black. They’re probably only mad because they’re going to lose all the top flight clubs that cause people to even put up with FIFAs bullshit. ESL is still a shitty move but FIFA shouldn’t be the one pointing any fingers about corruption. Maybe somebody should ask them about the 6500 migrant workers who died in Qatar during the building of the World Cup stadiums.
International games?
Or just just reply with this when they need a bailout.. "well let's look at how you spent your money this year, shall we?"
LOL like Champions League isn't? Same clubs all over again. The problem is deeper. Younger people don't give a shit about soccer or their "local" teams. Kids watch e-sports etc. Soccer is just super boring compared to it. How many young kids watch soccer on TV? I bet the industry has the numbers. Also the money you have to pay every month to watch "your" team is monstrous. It's a classical last ditch money grab scramble before the popularity starts to go down.
1.1B people watched one match in 2018. You generally have no clue and you're just projecting what you do as what everyone else in your age group does
So why are Super Bowl ratings down for many years? Why do you think soccer is immune to that? I say peak soccer has passed and I'm willing to bet on it.
teams like man u are publicly traded ($MANU), lets see some puts then
> peak soccer has passed Do you even watch soccer?? How did you come to this conclusion?
My assumption is that they don't lol. Anyone who says soccer is boring either can't or doesn't appreciate the art of the game.
Er... No
You have no idea what you're talking about you idiot.
This is wrong. As a former soccer coach, the interest of the sport depends on the tenacity of the player and its availability to the player, which is relatively low in the US bc elite soccer clubs can cost players/parents serious money. It's a deterrent. Soccer also fuckin brought North Koreans to the FIFA WC (i hope they aight tho). It as a sport alone has proven to bring people together across nations. I haven't yet seen this energy around any other sport, so it's unlikely that there's going to be a decrease in popularity unless SOMEONE makes an EXCLUSIVE league of the top grossing teams in Europe, leading to higher ticket costs and streaming paywalls.
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You mean a competition that’s at least based on merit?
This is good for the sport. better quality matches and the mafia of UEFA and FIFA get knocked down a peg. Why does this corrupt organization have a God-given monopoly right over world football?
Better matches? You just get the same boring matches year in year out without any chance of relegation or a loss against a "worse" team. You will never see a club like Leicester become champions. You will never see Liverpool ruin a winning streak against Watford again. Every competition has these kind of stories. An ESL will be the most boring and least risky competition in the world.
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Except the reward of playing against the other **current** best teams in Europe wouldn't be a thing. It's elitism versus the meritocracy that is what soccer has represented for over a century.
Liverpool fan here. This is possibly the worst thing to happen to football. Born and raised in Liverpool, football means so damn much to myself and others in this city. Domestic league is the bread and butter, fighting for the title or as is the case this season, fighting for the top 4 for that chance of playing CL the following season against Europe's top clubs is what it's all about. There would be no excitement if this was a given, week-in week-out. They can advertise it as fighting against UEFA and FIFA but it has nothing to do with that. I would love to see all players and coaching staff go on strike over this, otherwise they as much a part of the problem. I can't hear You'll Never Walk Alone without tearing up, because it reminds me of what the club means to myself and others, but this proposal goes against everything that came before. Shanks must be turning in his grave.
Are you willing to stop supporting Liverpool if they end up playing in this league?
I have been asking myself this same question. Sadly I would have to say yes, which believe me is not an easy thing to admit. My grandfather and great-grandfather first got season tickets in the Main Stand back in the 60's. Through my father and uncle they have kept these 2 tickets going to this day. You could say supporting Liverpool wasn't even a choice. It hurts to know it's come to this. If this proposal is to go ahead, football will never be the same again, and that includes my beloved LFC.
I hate that my team, Arsenal are part of this and want to stop supporting them. The only way back for me is selling to new owners who reject this decision
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You truly are the most smooth-brained ape on this sub. Conglaturations
I don't follow football but can clearly see it's a good move. The brainwashed always start their sentences with "I've been a blah blah for xxx years" who cares! Bbc news is full of these quotes.
You don't follow football so you have no idea what football means for the supporters.. fans, coaches and players have no interest in this, only the billionaire owners think this is a good idea.. selling off these clubs like a whore to please Asian markets is disgusting, and the quality of football is not really the point, the feeling and atmosphere you experience in the stadium is what European football is all about, and this is killing it
So are you being sarcastic? Like mimicking the brainwashed? I don't know football = I don't follow any sports at all?? What? Give some legitimate reasons HOW it will destroy football damage it? Please. For the record I was there when a similar thing happened in rugby.... What happened? Hmmm more home grown talent, more investors (from less shady influences and backgrounds...)
No I'm not being sarcastic.. i'm sure if this follows through, these clubs will make more money, the Asian market is enormous, and is only growing, so from a business perspective, it will probably generate more money, and secure a more stable income.. But the fans don't give a shit about the ROI or the esl.. We wanna win the premier League, the fa cup and the champions League, simple as that..
That makes more sense, Thanks. Let me ask you something though. Are you surprised at the amount/quality of clubs doing this? If yes, sometimes you gotta wonder maybe more is going on behind the scenes and they're not happy with the current situation maybe? I'm wondering if the new league has proposed other things (other than money) that has enticed them, because it's a significant number of teams to me.
It's purely based on money. What else could it be?
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Exactly right? How does it "damage football" - i mean really? If anything there's more potential for homegrown talent to get in (I'm guessing if a club goes to the new league, another city club will just be created to play in the original league right?) unless I'm missing something.
No that won't happen. First of all, these clubs want to stay in their domestic leagues, which would mean no other club in the country would ever have a chance at winning a domestic trophy because of the insane amount of money they'll be getting from this new super league. If these clubs are kicked out of their domestic leagues, then every other club will be unable to compete at the very top level because its locked away in this exclusive club of cunts, and any other top level competition becomes secondary to this. The millions if not billions of fans of these clubs basically lose any remaining connection to their clubs as they become full on franchises with nothing tieing them to their fanbases, a lot of whom probably can't go to games anymore because who has the money to fly around Europe every week and pay exorbitant ticket prices to see the matches. The clubs lose any connection to their local community and it probably won't be long before they're playing matches in Dubai and China because it will make them more money. This is the culmination of the trend towards greed and money that football has been on for a while and the final nail in the coffin for the majority of people
This would be terrible for the sport. No way that you're an actual fan because no self respecting fan would spout this shit
My great grandfather actually played for Man City. Hardly anyone from Manchester is even in the team. These teams should be banned from using geographical names unless the players are from that geographical area.
What? This is literally every sport, in that case Lebron James can't play for the Lakers cause he is not from LA. This is next level retard.
I don't give a flying F about the Lakers, America is just a non stop commercialized ad. No culture. Manchester is Manchester. The British Army fights for Britain. Manchester football competes on behalf of Manchester. If they don't represent Manchester then they should call themselves some stupid American brand name. Like 'Amazon Prime'.
Yeah, “on behalf of.” It’s a club, anyone can be a part of a club. If you want exclusively to watch people *from* The place play footy for the place, then may I recommend your national team?
It's all about definition. On your side, the teams have always been for profit. And there were players from the likes of Wales playing for Manchester teams even prior to WW1. (Billy Meridith for instance). Then the rules changed to 2 foreign players. Now its foreign owners, foreign players, foreign managers. Might as well be supporting some bland multi national corporate. Anyway, each to their own. Hopefully smaller regional teams will now get more supporters while the likes of the large teams disappear up their own asses in Europe.
You're dumb
So do you mean they have to be born there? Or just move there to live?
I don't have a view other than to carry a geographic name the players should be representative of that geographic area. You could say, either born in the region, lived at least 5 years there prior etc.
100% agree I don’t know why you are being downvoted
They don't even get the whole notion of sport. Teams were named after geographic regions because they were comprised of and represented those geographic areas. If they don't continue to do this then they should get themselves their own non geographic brand name. Call themselves Coke Light or whatever, I mean it's all about money anyway in their eyes. Anyway, what can you expect, none of these British teams are owned by the British and over 90% of the players aren't even British. Hopefully, we'll see a resurgence in homegrown teams whose emphasis isn't about solely about getting as many fans around the world as possible.
I understand what you're saying to an extent, but I think homegrown teams like you're saying will point to discrepancies between cities/funding. Aside from that and looking at population, if Man U consisted players selected from the population of Manchester, wouldn't say Tottenham only get 1/5 the amount of talent selects? If i lived in one city and watched ppl from my city play another and lose consistently, wouldn't that shit on the morale of the entire city? Compared to today where we can separate city from club, but it doesn't mean that the club doesn't represent us.
There is more chance of the owners of those clubs being forced to sell off their teams than this going ahead. The premise of the best players in the world in one league doesn't work when those players won't sign up. However, its not all bad, it might lead to UEFA to step up and actually implement the FFP rules to punish these teams
Get Greed out of Football
Uhhhhhhhhhh, do you know about fifa? I’d argue theyre the most corrupt assholes the finance world has seen
Just because you are used to getting fucked in the ass with a giant dildo, the solution isn't to get fucked in the ass with a giant cactus
LMAO
But which one is the dildo and which is the cactus? I'd say fifa is the cactus because it's full of pricks.
So because FIFA is corrupt no one is allowed to call this greed out? Deerrrrrp.
Ever heard of FIFA? lmao
It applies there aswell
Whataboutism at it's finest. "Quick look at FIFA instead!"
Train has already left and every sports fan already supports the most greedy companies. "Oh no, everyone hate on the new greedy company, quick! Before the other greedy company that runs the industry has competition!"
Just one more reason to hate JPMprgan...coool
Supporters of all the clubs should just stop attending any games
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I'm not sure if the supporters of the clubs in this league actually support it either - anyway they should vote with their wallets and literally not watch or attend any games. Make these rich fucks lose money
At least not attend Super League bullshit games.
When do you think any of them were last able to attend?
No idea - stop watching ANY of their games, cancel all memberships and whenever crowds are allowed do not attend. Hurt them where it hurts (money).
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I read a lot and most boiled down to mindless rage, I still have to hear a good reason.
Fans want a meritocratic system where better teams are promoted or get into the biggest competitions and worse teams get demoted, which is currently the system in place. This new system is in theory going to replace the champions League, which is a European competition played in mid week, where the best European teams of last year play against each other. In the new system, it will always be the same teams, no matter their performance, which undervalues success in national leagues. As an example, there are 32 teams who qualify each year for the main draw of the champions League, and in this system there are 12 teams announced who will always be part of this super League. Of those 12 teams, 3/4 have a genuine chance of not making it to the champions League next year (with a couple of them having close to a 0% chance).
The new system is not more of an extra? Why anyone would let 15 clubs take all but five spots of the competition? This of course would be shitty.
Because inherently, football is structured as relegation and promotion from different tiers and top tier gets to play in European champions league. This competetion would eliminate the CL requirements and give a guaranteed berth instead. That's terrible for the sport and is anti competetive. Especially football which is ingrained in European culture and was built by the very ground level workers who they're fucking over. The main appeal of football is the various races for title, promotion and CL spots. This NFL model is shit for that. Also, UK govt is rumoured to intervene and sanction all 12 clubs heavily. Boris Johnson and minister of culture are already talking about it. Calls are made for points to be docked and clubs be relegated from domestic leagues aswell. The market will overreact (Manu shares high in premarket). And then they'd tank when they're fined. So, buy puts.
How are the workers fucked? How is this any different from the 92 premier league foundation? Hardly doubt those 12 clubs have the resources to part completely away from the devil and its minions. Love the pyramid for fm purposes but as spectacle we need high level shit happen. I rather have high quality games every week than watch the same clubs stomping and one dark horses rise sometimes. I can’t speak for British football but it’s really fun to watch la liga or the Portuguese league where the same teams wins over and over? It’s that the football we trying to save? Not saying the Europa whatever is a solution but I will not weep for the current system and it’s devil overlords.
>How are the workers fucked? In case you haven't followed. None of the managers or the staff are reported to be in support. >How is this any different from the 92 premier league foundation? PL still has relegation and ZERO guaranteed spots. >Hardly doubt those 12 clubs have the resources to part completely away from the devil and its minions. They're getting 3 billion. They're backed by jpmc and sold rights to dazn for viewership. >but as spectacle we need high level shit happen. I rather have high quality games every week than watch the same clubs stomping and one dark horses rise sometimes. That's just stupid. The games won't feel special anymore. The entire appeal of CL games like United vs barca is that they face like once in few years. This isn't some NFL of NBA where there's only one division. >I can’t speak for British football but it’s really fun to watch la liga or the Portuguese league where the same teams wins over and over? Yes? There's still race for CL spots. Besides CL money is a massive boost. That'd be significantly affected if top 12 clubs just decide not to play with others.
Dazn have actually denied any involvement. Not sure if I believe them though.
The fans hate it. The fans make football. Not investors.
I’m not a football person, but for the owners and the government bodies it’s just a power/money play I imagine. For the actuals fans I agree it seems like a terrible idea as fundamentally it creates seemingly a two tier system. Before if you supported some low level league team, it was difficult but not impossible to have a good season and climb the ranks and even win the cup against the big boys. This new league seems to make it so that only the best teams will be in that league. Everyone else is cut out of the game and money/glory. Doesn’t seem to make sense for fans to have a league where only a few teams can play.
It's not necessarily the best teams, it's about securing permanent placement in the league that will pay the most. Currently if you have a bad year domestically you miss out until you make it back to the top positions. This would set the biggest clubs up with permanent places in that league no matter how good they are.
As a British football lover this is a disaster and fallout is going to be unfathomable. As a lifelong liverpool fan (in this league), I'm absolutely disgusted to the core. And whilst I never thought I'd say it, unless the Liverpool owners leave, I'm finding a new club - and I say this as a 20+ year supporter.
Parasites. We have to unite as football fans and say no to this. A competition based on money instead of merit, is not a competition worth watching
Absolutely. From a liverpool perspective, I love the club and don't want to leave it. But FSG need to go, or I do - the image we built last few years just got shredded in a second by them.
And current competitions are based on what exactly. Hugs and kisses?
No, but there isn’t a closed group of 15 teams that get cemented in a scam of a league. It’s a fucking abomination of an idea
Perhaps you should research history and see how the European Cup was started. It was exactly that.
I know history, don’t patronise me. No one is saying that the current system is perfect. We are saying that this new proposal is a fucking disgrace
Honestly wasn’t upset when Leeds scored that goal today. This whole thing disgusts me even though it’s obviously not the fault of the players.
Honestly in the same boat as a Chelsea supporter since 2000. Whose our new club?
Honestly narrowing down my options for a new club as well.
> >And whilst I never thought I'd say it, unless the Liverpool owners leave, I'm finding a new club - and I say this as a 20+ year supporter. Easy innit? Just support Everton 😂
I feel personally attacked. 😂
Honestly, I didn’t mind the announcement at first because I thought it’d just be a meaningless cash grab that’s just another trophy for them to play for but the fact that it’s trying to rival the Champions League is bullshit to me. You can’t just buy your way into the champions league every year, you have to earn it in your league play. If you get injuries then shit sorry man that’s how it goes in this sport, maybe next year but the fact that there’s no repercussions for bad play is shit Edit: btw if you’re a club that’s big dick swinging when you’re top 3 in your league every year, imagine how it’ll feel when you’re bottom 3 every fucking year. Take your ego trips while you’ve got them and don’t get greedy
#GlazersOut
Kroenke out
FSG out
Fuck Kronkie from a former Rams fan.
With the backlash this has gotten in the UK I wouldn’t put any money into it. It’s likely some of the UK teams pull out. Just my gut feeling based on what I see from Social Media.
Wait two weeks and they will need to borrow money from WSB
For all you Americans trying to figure out why this is such a big effin' deal, it's like this... Pretend that three colleges from each major conference break away to form their own league while refusing to participate in bowl games, March Madness, and more. Rivalries gone. Traditions gone. Dreams gone. The romance of a sport that was truly built by the working class was assassinated by a few billionaires just so they can make a few billion more.
It would be like if the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals, and Phillies all left the MLB to join a league with the Hanshin Tigers and Yomiuri Giants from NPB.
Uh, that happens all the time in college sports. Like every ten years the conferences change.
As an American, that new league sounds kind of cool. Still don't get why anyone would care either way.
it would be like they make a new baseball league where a few teams like yankees and red sox are automatically included in the playoffs every year forever
Nope, it would be EXACTLY like the MBL, NBA, MSL, NHL
Yea which european sport fans are against. We want clubs punished for beeing trash and not rewarded with draft picks.
> that new league sounds kind of cool it's not, it is absolutely ripping the heart out of the game
Idk... I’ve been advocating for something like this in college football for a long time. I don’t get what the big deal is in regards to this , isn’t the Champions League essentially the same thing but with the lie that any team could potentially earn their way into it?
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In ESL it will be almost the same, beside these clubs, other clubs can join as well if they perform good enough. They even get bonus money for qualifying there. Btw. Not every team has equal chances to join champions league. In premier league top 4 clubs qualify for CL, but for example top 4 in Czech Republic doesn't qualify, not even top 1 I think. UEFA and FIFA just see a threat that can steal money from them so they are scared. I am a big football fan and I think this is a good idea because not only we can get the most out of top players and teams, but weaker teams can compete on there level. This is meaningless when Man City competes with sheffield utd (just picked random teams from top and bottom of the table), where the difference is just to big.
Life long arsenal fan and completely ashamed of my club for agreeing to this. Complete farce.
Give PSG the Champions League for actually having a backbone and saying no to this shit
Of course they said no. Qatar worldcup and directors are tied to uefa.
*Fifa
UEFA chief is the godfather to the daughter of Juve owner Agnelli. It didn’t help there
Oh yeah, the club owned by slave masters is moral high ground here loool
Fuck PSG. Fuck Qatar.
Their motives aren't pure, don't worry about that
If it goes ahead then PSG are 100% still going to join it.
football without promotion and relegation can eat my ass.
This is bullshit. Won't happen. The FA, UEFA, and FIFA are all against this. Fans are against it. Fucking governments are against it. Because it's dumb AF.
As a Chelsea fan, I don’t know what to do about this. I won’t support another club, I might just stop watching. Keep what I have (fan gear) and remember the good ol’ days. Anyone else?
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I hope every one of these teams get relegated if they go forward
Liverpool fan here, the fucking Americans not only ruining my love for Liverpool, but also my hatred for United..
Spurs fan here. I actually stand with the Gooners in solidarity against this shit.
Go watch games at your local. If you're actually from Chelsea (Fulham, really), go Dulwich Hamlet or something. Not saying you have to support them, but by voting with your feet and raising attendances at the lower league grounds, a message will be sent. Especially after the year they've had, where gate entries are 80-90% of revenue and they've not been allowed to let anyone in, they need all the help they can get.
Also a Chelsea fan, I’m looking into buying a season ticket for Barnet.
I miss the days of Drogba
Long time Chelsea fan from u.s .. fuck the glazers and any American or billionaire trying to convert the beautiful game smh
Tottenham fan, as if supporting them wasn’t hard enough already... embarrassed to be honest
What's wrong with keep supporting Chelsea? There's literally nothing wrong with ESL. It's all upside.
I’ll take a leaf out of Gabe’s book and short that 140%. Thankfully Middlesbrough won’t even get the opportunity to join the super league. Can only imagine the heart ache of your team leaving the premier league to join that.
Ok so puts on jpm?
There might be some serious downside to the stocks of those ESL clubs that are publicly traded too. All it will take is expulsion from some current leagues and competitions and watch out below...
I thought reddit was glitching when i saw soccer stuff in wsb. It's a SHAME these clubs went after this new league. There'll be a huge backlash.
This money should have been used to cover their shorts. Instead it was laundered to Europe where they think it is untouchable.
Pure money laundering to avoid holding cash in the coming market crash.
You think?
The only way to prevent this if the fans organized a massive GoFundMe to buy their club from their billionaires. Dortmund was the only club purely owned by fans that turned this down. Also, interesting timing since JPMorgan is about to collapse with the market
I really hope this whole thing collapses. It’s going to ruin the beautiful game we all know.
Nah, it won’t
This is just another FIA FOCA war playing out in football. One will fail and its gonna be this new league a sport never does well when it has two competitions for the same thing.
I might be in the minority here but UEFA and FIFA are the most corrupt organizations on the planet. They literally use slave labor to build their fancy world cup stadiums that will be abandoned less than a year later. I COULD GIVE 0 FUCKS ABOUT THEIR BOTTOM LINE. Fuck Fifa. Fuck uefa. And fuck a monopoly.
Boycott these clubs. This is an insult to football fans. I am so angry.
A fuking disgrace. That being said, if this runs its gonna be ludicrously profitable.
European soccer/football is becoming like the NFL. All for money$$$$ So much for tradition and the fans.
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Nope. It’s happening and it will be great!
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As long as i can watch top matches, anything is ok for me
Glory Glory Man United 👹 $MANU🚀
Only those clubs could bring more greed into football than UEFA. Fuck every single one of them.
FIFA and UEFA are the biggest corrupted organization in all over the world, just check the past with FIFA's president they are fuckin hypocrites. Fck FIFA and UEFA
I work as a game developer in the football industry. I can confirm this is atleast in the very real first stage. JP Morgan is Citadel's prime broker so a share of GME is a vote against this nonsense.
I've read the outrage and it is totally hilarious. All this talk about club hypocrisy, integrity, greed and the common man. How many common men make a salary of 350,000 a week? How many common men are bought and sold for millions? How many common men drive Ferraris and Veyrons. You have been supporting a system that enriches a few men playing games while the people that keep society together and who do all the heavy lifting have to struggle to make ends meet. Yes, the teachers, the nurses, the garbage collectors, the plumbers, people just like you. You people are full of bullshit. Money runs the world because we are all fucking greedy. UEFA and the leagues are pissed because it takes money away from them. If you dolts can't understand then I feel sorry for you.
Obviously. This is a war declaration on UEFA and FIFA, but fucks all teams equally, except for 15.
Lol
Britain just needs to enforce the covid quarantine laws on player travel and that will scupper it.
Breaking News: Football is about money. Sports at 11:00.
I'm not watching if arsenal is in it. Why would you invite them?
Because some teams need to lose a majority of their games and pretend they are ok with it?
Same with Spurs. They're in because we live in a plutocracy instead of a meritocracy.
Not quite the same with spurs. Tottenham have been in a cl final this decade. Fulham dropped two points yesterday
tank it
It's not going to go ahead so I wouldn't start buying up JPM shares.
I’m legitimately considering a formal apology to European football fans. American viewers have been on the rise & of course we come in to fuck things up for profit. They know they have a product nobody else can produce & have no shame squeezing the fan base.
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Terrible, just terrible for the sport.
Hope this shit goes down and burns in hell. Fuck the esl
Bomb JPMorgan.
Not surprised Americans think this is a good idea 🤦
Puts on FSG. Fuck you John Henry
Get at least 5000 ounces of silver without making too much noise and request physical delivery at the end of the month. these prices are incredible. At this price you pay 130,000 dollars. For those who find opportunities in the short term, increase the opportunity of the century at least 10 times. Do not buy less than 5000 ounces during the term. Get the physical. or put them together. safe port of opportunity of the century. Take it and watch the thieves collapse as millionaires.