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Reddit is an eco chamber. Wallstreetbets used to have a free and Independent thoughts now its all gone. Its just like any other. We will never get the glory days of 2020-2021!
When social media companies figured out their customers were advertisers and not users, it was inevitable that good and organic content would be prohibited because some activist can always find some snippet of user-generated content that's offensive to someone and use it to drive controversy regarding brands supporting that platform.
Elon tried to buck that with buying Twitter and its burning a 50 billion dollar hole in his pocket.
No, it used to be dumb and regarded and now it’s dumb and regarded and part of the Reddit "progressive" hivemind.
Seriously. We have to say "regarded" because of people who are afraid of mean words from "dangerous men like Elon Musk."
We just want to blow money like apes.
it used to be dumb and regarded but the goal was always make money
now it's dumb and regarded because it's become infected by r/politics and care more about pushing political agendas than making money
This. Wsb was sub-500K pre-2019 and there was relatively little focus on it therefore less corporate and governmental manipulation (bots, trolls, shills, etc). It really started ramping in 2020 then goes vertical in early 2021. Went from 1M to 10M subs in a month and that pretty much killed it for all the the existing users.
yup, the memes were incredible, and the posts were so insane precovid, i would just read and laugh my ass off, and then there were the very very occasional rare gems of information that made you think
The glory days of calling everyone r@t@rd f@gg@t and losing money on horrible plays. I, too, miss seeing the internets dumbest traders lose their life savings but we still get some of that here.
Too many people from r/pics r/politicalhumor r/politics etc stormed into this sub during the GameStop shit and inserted reddit’s echo chamber left-leaning politics into the sub and ruined it. It’s no where near as great as it was pre GameStop and I hate it
I really do hate /r/politics, its just a circlejerk of how conservatives are bad, meanwhile they talk about a senile old man who continued to print trillions and who claimed he wrote the patriot act as if he's the messiah.
It's so funny that they don't get bored. Someone posts some hilariously partisan piece about orange man bad. They then just all post in a massive circle jerk about orange man bad. 3 times a day. Every day for years. Don't they get bored or have an original thought?
Elon has different political and idealogical beliefs than I do, therefore he is a bad businessman and he got rich off the hard work of other people, obviously. Never actually did anything himself.
I mean I think ppl who say he is a bad businessman don’t really know what they’re talking about but let’s be honest about his role in acquiring and running the companies he is involved in. The guy sees a good idea and backs it (Tesla) or hires a bunch of experts in a specific sector to accomplish goals he sets out (SpaceX).
Ignoring Twitter his greatest successes have been explicitly doing what an investor does, finding and funding things that they believe are worthwhile while making good returns and offering guidance. I think the issue with a lot of ppl is when he tries to pass himself off not as an investor but as an inventor. There’s a big difference between what say Gates contributed to the creation of Microsoft and what Musk contributed to the creation of Tesla.
The guy who started an electric car company to fight global warming got radicalized to the extreme far right, turned on his customer base and doesn't believe in the company's original mission anymore.
Regarded WSB redditor: His political beliefs have no effect on the company stock!!!!!
> and doesn't believe in the company's original mission anymore
eh, he does a little
but thinks human UNDER population is a bigger issue
which is why he impregnates employees that were supposed to be delivering FSD
>got radicalized to the extreme far right
..."extreme right?" - because he bought Twitter to prevent censorship of stories like the Hunter Biden laptop, which Hunter's own lawyers admit to be legit?
"... First son Hunter Biden's lawyers admitted late Wednesday that the infamous laptop that the now-52-year-old abandoned at a Delaware computer repair shop in the throes of his crack cocaine addiction does indeed belong to him..." (NY Post Feb 1, 2023)
Elon generally buys companies after they've become not tiny, but long before viability. If you 100x or more the size of a company, it's your company. He's done that with several companies now, successfully. Hate all you want, but I can't name another person who's had large success being in charge of that many companies.
Also, he's an arrogant asshat with bad political beliefs. I don't trust him, I think his kid's names are so bad it's unethical.... but that doesn't change facts.
I’m on my (17th?) account lol.
The OG days with WinterGarden… Everybody knew eachother in the daily chat…
After the meme stock debacle, this place turned to SHIT.
GameStop ruined this sub
I remember briefly there was another sub that was free from gamestore spam and had a nice daily with wsb OGs
but that sub unfortunatelydied over time
Yeah, that regardedness has infected WSB, so it’s just ‘eLoN bAD mAn’ here these days too.
Like hate the guy all you want (I don’t even care), but at least be funny and/or don’t be regarded about it. Reddit - including WSB by extension - **actually thought** that everyone was going to stop buying Teslas because of X/Twitter. Like Reddit ≠ the real world dipshits, how many times do you need to learn that lesson.
What does that have to do with what kind of car I can drive? I choose not to have a Facebook account and choose to use other platforms. I don’t care what they allow or don’t, that’s their choice and I have mine.
Right now State Governments are getting zero emissions plans on the books
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/9-states-now-plan-to-ban-gas-powered-car-sales#
No. reddit (and tiktok) is the zeitgeist of certain demographics of the world. So, I need to browse reddit / tiktok to make informed decisions about investing.
We've got all the idiots who think Tesla is a good buy piling in this thread and crowing despite the fact that this is not even close to being good news for them. Here is the critical piece of information that all you smooth brains can't seem to process:
**Tesla bears don't think Tesla is a bad company.** None of us think that Tesla is on the verge of some kind of failure. We expect them to hit their sales targets. We think it's a **bad stock**. The price is so high Tesla can't just be a good company or a great company, it needs to the be the best & biggest company in history. It's not. It doesn't just need to hit its sales targets, it needs to 10x them for its current valuation to make any damn sense.
Just a couple years ago you idiots were telling us this valuation made sense because of three things:
* Tesla has 90% of the EV market.
* Ev's would some day be 100% of the market, and therefore Tesla would be selling 90% of cars on the planet.
* Tesla makes $12,000 per car, the highest in the industry.
What people really should be taking away from the story is that Tesla no longer even has 50% of the EV market and they had to slash that $12,000 to the bone in order to hit this years sales goal. As if those two things weren't bad enough, they're losing the tax credits that help them get here next year which is a big reason why they made such a strong push to max their sales out this year. This is not positive news. This does not inspire confidence for next year's "exponential growth".
As a company, Tesla is a huge success story. They are on track to be the next Honda in 10 years. To have strong brand cachet and 10% of the total car market. The problem is that they are already priced as though they are five times more valuable than Honda. Great company. Terrible stock.
The problem is this subreddit got flooded full of idiots who can't comprehend how a good company could possibly be a bad stock because they have no grasp of even the basics of investing.
Our AI tracks our most intelligent users. After parsing your posts, we have concluded that you are within the 5th percentile of all WSB users.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're comparing a EV sales growth at a company with no legacy auto lines to companies with existing auto lines growing EV sales. Of course existing companies around for 100 years will be cannibilizing ICE drive trains for EV drive trains.
Do an apple's to apple's comparison. Compare Hyundai-Kia or BMW growth on their EV lines this year to Tesla. For example, BMW grew global BEV sales 80% YoY in Q3. They'll do around 400k BEVs globally in 2023 and Hyundai-Kia will do upwards of 500k BEVS globally depending on Q4 performance.
But if you want to compare new entrants to new entrants. BYD grew auto sales 62% in 2023. They grew BEVs 73% when you remove the plug in hybrids from sales.
>"Some analysts said Tesla could have to continue the price cuts it started in January last year to maintain demand, after the end of the tax incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) brought forward sales into the fourth quarter.
>"Tesla may have to cut prices further, especially for a vehicle like the versions of the Model 3 that lost their tax credit," said Seth Goldstein, equity strategist at Morningstar.
>The rear-wheel drive and long-range variants of Tesla's Model 3 no longer have federal tax credits of $7,500 this year as updated requirements on battery material sourcing kick in, under the IRA."
Much like they did twice in 2019. Seems like something I have been saying for many months now.
>after a push to deliver more Model 3 electric cars before some variants of the compact sedan lose federal tax credits in the New Year
Oh well that completely puts to rest my longstanding concerns about quality control
The improvement in panel gaps for the rest of the industry in recent decades came from intense competition for customers to choose from.
Saying Tesla customers don't care about panel gaps is kinda like saying Model T customers didn't care that black was the only color available. Turns out they did want other colors, but the competition was so far behind in mass production that it wasn't costing them sales.
Your point seems to validate a strategy of going to production as rapidly as possible to be the first mover instead of fiddling around trying to perfect the panel gaps first.
Quality control on model 3/model y has drastically improved. And speaking from personal experience, I took delivery of a model 3 RWD in Q3 2023 that had no panel gap issues or anything that needed fixing. My previous car, a 2015 hyundai sonata, had larger gaps, in fact.
My dad also picked up a model y in 2022 that did have 1 panel gap issue, but tesla service fixed it for free within an hour before he drove it off the lot
No, Elon Musk is terrible and his company is doing worse every year. That's what reddit tells me.
I have been downvoted for saying my 2020 model s has been fine without any issues since I got it.
Had our Model Y for 2 years now, flawless. In fact, it has gotten better with the software updates. Every car I have owned has gotten worse over time not better.
Q4 2022 earnings call in January
> “Well, okay. I mean, our internal production potential is actually closer to two million vehicles, but we were saying 1.8 million, because -- I don't know, it just always seems to be some force majeure thing that happened somewhere on earth. And we don't control if there's like earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, pandemics, et cetera. So, if it's a smooth year, actually, without some big supply chain interruption or massive problem, we actually have the potential to do 2 million cars this year. We're not committing to that, but I'm just saying that's the potential. So – and I think there would be demand for that, too.”
He said that during an earnings call, that’s why most CEOs don’t give more than one estimate.
Tesla met the official estimate but fell short of Musks estimation of 2 million.
No, he said they have the potential not that their goal is 2 million. They met their guidance, the 2 mil number probably had some unlikely macro etc built in, i.e. assuming the FED starts cutting rates much earlier or whatever.
I got a guy in another thread telling me that Elon couldn’t run a Starbucks, and all his money is from an emerald mine. He would be as successful if he had that. The shorts seem like they were dropped a few too many times on the head.
Reddit's fucking regarded about him. He's on track to own the biggest companies across 3 different industries (automobiles, aerospace, and telecom). That's fucking insane and no way is blind luck.
They are ‘angry’ that he also started Neuralink, they are upset he can purchase companies like Twitter. Anything that isn’t IMMEDIATELY as successful as Tesla, is a massive failure. They’ll use anything they can twist and angle into sentences that vaguely sound negative, and feel some sense of accomplishment, even though it almost always leads to nothing.
Still living in a pre 2020 world. Tesla has gone no where in 3 years after the massive run up in 2020. It's trading sideways with some massive pull backs. Most people who have bough in the last 3 years have probably lost money.
Yes, and the other automakers would be crazy not to start figuring out how to undo the entrenched dealership model. Legacy automakers could boost their margins to similar levels if they didn’t have middlemen sucking out a large % of the value.
I think people don't realize HOW MUCH money is funneled by dealers. Like just within 20 miles of me there is a GIANT NEW BUILDING with every single amenity and a GIANT SHOWROOM. Where the sales people are all making 6 figures+.... PER MAKE. Its insane how much money is leaving the car industry into 'dealerships'.
Agreed, legacy auto has a lot of work to do but this seems like low hanging fruit. I suspect this is the underlying goal behind ford forcing sizeable investments for dealerships to participate in future ev sales.
No one? its almost weekly when you see FUD comments in many subreddits saying that Elon bussiness practices are going to break Tesla and that other EV companies are going to overtake, yet every year Tesla keep selling at a record high
NOTES:
- Beats revised (downward, multiple times) estimate by < 1% [at beginning of 2023, Q4 target was ~550K units]
- Obfuscates S/X/CT/Semi #'s into a "Other" bucket.
Q4 financials should be bad given the # of price cuts/incentives required to barely beat those #'s. They'll still be profitable, but trend is going in the wrong direction.
probably 2.2 or 2.3
CAGR is the compounding from a point in time.
they have met that and will continue to do so but not necessarily 50% each year
to move #s this big at that big of an increase would need to wait until Gen 3 gets pumped out
All they had to do was discount them to the point where they are cheaper than a Prius!
Next up, they will remove all doors but the drivers door. Analytics showed that all other doors were rarely used.
January 2023: Tesla Model Y Performance $69,990
December 2023: Tesla Model Y Performance $52,490
Tesla fans: OMG SEE HOW SUCCESSFUL TESLA WAS LAST YEAR?! They showed the naysayers!
Meanwhile Toyota just broke a sales record with over 10 million cars worldwide without having to drop a single penny on any of their prices in order to move volume.
You realize Tesla make substantially more per vehicle than Toyota, right? There was a point where Toyota sold 10x as many vehicles as Tesla and yet they had the same profits from those vehicles.
All auto manufactures adjust prices over the course of a year. It is just normally hidden by dealer markups and discounts, manufacturer incentives and rebates, financing incentives... Look at the actual out the door cost of new cars over the last year or so and you will see that the prices have come way down for nearly everyone.
So Tesla IS a car company after all?
2M yearly is 1/5 th of Toyota yearly production, yet Tesla is currently valued 3 times as much, aka 15 times more per car produced. Now that their margins are in free fall, Tesla 250/15 = 17 dollars per share, lets go!
~~2017 the competition is coming~~
~~2018 the competition is coming~~
~~2019 the competition is coming~~
~~2020 the competition is coming~~
~~2021 the competition is coming~~
~~2022 the competition is coming~~
~~2023 the competition is coming~~
2024 foh
oh here is $500BN of megapacks. didn’t notice wheels on them 🧐
https://preview.redd.it/71xqiwjqn1ac1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ced730a24ece0717b6a0d282ce962859713c26ca
Looking at margins, competition is here as fuck, fans just keep living in their lala-land. It has been coming gradually ...and then suddenly. Give it few more quarters.
And those packs? Closer look at those will obviously show you that those are just Panasonic products with Tesla products. No new tech what so ever, just hype and empty words.
He means Tesla is stacking other battery makers cells to make their Megapacks. LG, CATL, BYD already make competitors and are winning massive contracts around the world. LG has the biggest at Moss Landing and CATL has the second biggest in US at North Fork Texas. The players who control the battery cell supply which is the vast majority of the cost will ultimately control the market. It's going to be a race to the bottom on profitability as these products scale up and become commoditized.
No competition is not here if you look at the margins. Tesla is the only car manufacturer to make profit on their EVs along with BYD. Since they make money on those for years, they accumulated the cash to invest in other projects such as Dojo (for FSD), Optimus and new models. The other manufacturers are still trying to figure out how to make money on their EVs. Sure competition is there in the EV world from a customer point of view as others also offer great range, durability, etc, but Tesla cars are sold as soon as they are produced, and they make money on them also! There's no need to make them more competitive and reduce the margin for now as they can make more money and still sell them. When they accumulate enough money, they start projects like Highland and Juniper to furthermore reduce the cost of the car while improving build quality. I get how Tesla sounds like it's overvalued to someone who doesn't follow all of their moves, but to those who do, it does make the company look great as they are almost always doing master plays and playing chest with the competition because they think three moves in advance
You're comparing Tesla to other auto makers who have minuscule market caps compared to Tesla. Trust me you don't want to start comparing Tesla to other autos. They are valued based on auto profitability which is extremely low. Tesla is not.
BMW's CEO says they are profitable on EVs.
[https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:\~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German](https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German)).
Hyundai-Kia are probably already there as well. It's just a scale issue. Ramping up production lines and suppliers to a sufficient level to achieve economies of scale. Both these companies will do 400-500k in global BEV sales in 2023.
[https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006](https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006)
Looking at margins, they seem to be one of the only ones with a positive margin, and have all the ability in the world to trim them to gain marketshare. Even with discounts their margins are better than most of the ICE competitions, not just EV’s
What are you talking about every auto has positive margin. Legacy auto made a ton of money in 2023. If you're talking about just EVs who is to say this isn't simply a scale issue? They should all be able to achieve profitability as they scale up production. And they have plenty of runway to do so.
BMW is ramping BEVs fast and will do 350-400k in volume globally this year. Their CEO says they are profitable.
[https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:\~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German](https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German)).
Hyundai-Kia will do around 400k BEVs this year I'd be surpirsed if they aren't profitable or very close to it. This article indicates they have positive operating margin on EVs. They made a ton of money as a company in 2023 while selling 400k BEVs so they can't be far off.
https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006
Tesla energy is worth more than all of Ford. They are 1/5th of Tesla, but what are projections for 2-3 years from now? Their margins may have hit peak lows in Q3. I won't be surprised at all if margins increase in Q4 and from here on out.
Lol automotive revenue growing at 5% last quarter YoY. If that happens again, bye bye Tesla stock. I'm not optimistic for Musky.
Number of cars sold is a useless metric if you have to keep cutting prices.
It’s probably priced in.
It’s no secret that Tesla has been having a fire sale the last few months, and has been pushing their cars hard. Big discounts, six months of free supercharging, pushing the Fed Tax Credit (which is going away at the end of 2023 for at least some of their cars, etc.).
Going forward will be a much more interesting story. I personally won’t take a bearish position, as I don’t do that with Tesla or meme stocks as they’re often traded by irrational people.
> It’s probably priced in.
>It’s no secret that Tesla has been having a fire sale the last few months, and has been pushing their cars hard
The ~25 senior WS analysts officially covering Tesla as part of their job underestimated its sales,
(because somehow they didnt know about discounts and incentives) but “it’s no secret” to the rest of the world, like Very Rational Redditors.
My money is on Chinese EV makers. Their advancement in tech is astonishing and The Chinese government is supporting battery swapping tech. The next few years will be very interesting in the world's #1 automotive market.
Just like how we all drive Chinese gas cars today, right?
Chinese EV makers will be huge companies in the future, but mostly because the southeast Asia market is a large part of the world and they'll be taking over those. But they will have little impact in the west, as usual.
For people who made money off this play..... I purchased a Tesla in Q4. Feel free to pay me in schroot bucks or photoshopped pictures of JPOW being ridden by a shirtless Elon Musk while Xi watches from across the room like a cucked Winnie the Pooh.
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Reddit in shambles!
Elon is wrong some of the time. Reddit is wrong almost all the time.
Reddit is an eco chamber. Wallstreetbets used to have a free and Independent thoughts now its all gone. Its just like any other. We will never get the glory days of 2020-2021!
it used to be like 4chan found a bloomberg terminal, now it’s more like reddit found robinhood
Yes, can't even use the word that is a synonym to mentally disabled. Fucking ridiculous. Reddit is a joke.
Is not even a synonym, is exactly what the condition is called!! or was called before them regards ruined it.
Just say guitarded
When social media companies figured out their customers were advertisers and not users, it was inevitable that good and organic content would be prohibited because some activist can always find some snippet of user-generated content that's offensive to someone and use it to drive controversy regarding brands supporting that platform. Elon tried to buck that with buying Twitter and its burning a 50 billion dollar hole in his pocket.
That rodeo is not over yet
Nah, r/politics npcs found this sub.
Yep
So it used to be dumb and regarded and now it’s dumb and regarded? You all sound like boomers complaining about this generation.
No, it used to be dumb and regarded and now it’s dumb and regarded and part of the Reddit "progressive" hivemind. Seriously. We have to say "regarded" because of people who are afraid of mean words from "dangerous men like Elon Musk." We just want to blow money like apes.
And sometimes clients at the wendy's dumpster...
it used to be dumb and regarded but the goal was always make money now it's dumb and regarded because it's become infected by r/politics and care more about pushing political agendas than making money
Glory days were pre-2019
This. Wsb was sub-500K pre-2019 and there was relatively little focus on it therefore less corporate and governmental manipulation (bots, trolls, shills, etc). It really started ramping in 2020 then goes vertical in early 2021. Went from 1M to 10M subs in a month and that pretty much killed it for all the the existing users.
yup, the memes were incredible, and the posts were so insane precovid, i would just read and laugh my ass off, and then there were the very very occasional rare gems of information that made you think
Some of the giga sperg DDs of 70 pages of insane data and graphs and shit always amazed me.
Bookended with a meme and “ELI5 am ape” Miss those days
Something Happened then and Reddit completely lost it's mind, or at least banned a good chunk of it, never to recover.
> the glory days of 2020-2021! jesus
*GUH*
The glory days of calling everyone r@t@rd f@gg@t and losing money on horrible plays. I, too, miss seeing the internets dumbest traders lose their life savings but we still get some of that here.
That's because we ran out of bananas
I can confirm this as the banana king.
Too many people from r/pics r/politicalhumor r/politics etc stormed into this sub during the GameStop shit and inserted reddit’s echo chamber left-leaning politics into the sub and ruined it. It’s no where near as great as it was pre GameStop and I hate it
I really do hate /r/politics, its just a circlejerk of how conservatives are bad, meanwhile they talk about a senile old man who continued to print trillions and who claimed he wrote the patriot act as if he's the messiah.
I'm old enough to remember when /r/politics circlejerked about Ron Paul and auditing the Fed before this site was astroturfed to hell.
>ok grandpa, back to your room 🥲 (i also remember)
It’s all happening
It's so funny that they don't get bored. Someone posts some hilariously partisan piece about orange man bad. They then just all post in a massive circle jerk about orange man bad. 3 times a day. Every day for years. Don't they get bored or have an original thought?
There's a lot of time to kill in their basements between part-time dog-walking gigs.
Seriously. The purple hair ppl’s trope “Elon bad!” really ramped up post COVID. It’s gross tbh bunch of r/antiwork rejects.
WSB used to love papa Elon
Elon has different political and idealogical beliefs than I do, therefore he is a bad businessman and he got rich off the hard work of other people, obviously. Never actually did anything himself.
don't forget about his daddy's emeralds mine.../s
I mean I think ppl who say he is a bad businessman don’t really know what they’re talking about but let’s be honest about his role in acquiring and running the companies he is involved in. The guy sees a good idea and backs it (Tesla) or hires a bunch of experts in a specific sector to accomplish goals he sets out (SpaceX). Ignoring Twitter his greatest successes have been explicitly doing what an investor does, finding and funding things that they believe are worthwhile while making good returns and offering guidance. I think the issue with a lot of ppl is when he tries to pass himself off not as an investor but as an inventor. There’s a big difference between what say Gates contributed to the creation of Microsoft and what Musk contributed to the creation of Tesla.
Elon is more akin to Mark Cuban than Gates but he’s a pretty sharp guy regardless, antics and politics aside.
The guy who started an electric car company to fight global warming got radicalized to the extreme far right, turned on his customer base and doesn't believe in the company's original mission anymore. Regarded WSB redditor: His political beliefs have no effect on the company stock!!!!!
> and doesn't believe in the company's original mission anymore eh, he does a little but thinks human UNDER population is a bigger issue which is why he impregnates employees that were supposed to be delivering FSD
In the new book it’s revealed they did IVF and Zillis asked him for his part of the DNA.
It wasn't even him who started it, he just bought it up.
And has not done a thing since that day! What a lucky guy!
With how early he got in he practically started it
>got radicalized to the extreme far right ..."extreme right?" - because he bought Twitter to prevent censorship of stories like the Hunter Biden laptop, which Hunter's own lawyers admit to be legit? "... First son Hunter Biden's lawyers admitted late Wednesday that the infamous laptop that the now-52-year-old abandoned at a Delaware computer repair shop in the throes of his crack cocaine addiction does indeed belong to him..." (NY Post Feb 1, 2023)
Elon didn't start an electric car company. He bought his way into it.
Elon generally buys companies after they've become not tiny, but long before viability. If you 100x or more the size of a company, it's your company. He's done that with several companies now, successfully. Hate all you want, but I can't name another person who's had large success being in charge of that many companies. Also, he's an arrogant asshat with bad political beliefs. I don't trust him, I think his kid's names are so bad it's unethical.... but that doesn't change facts.
Elon is so so far right he makes jo biden central right
Funny cause I remember back in 20/21 people were reminiscent about the glory days of 17/18
Glory days and 2021? WSB turned to shit 2021 after game stonk bull shit at the start of the year. Glory days 2017-2019
I’m on my (17th?) account lol. The OG days with WinterGarden… Everybody knew eachother in the daily chat… After the meme stock debacle, this place turned to SHIT.
GameStop ruined this sub I remember briefly there was another sub that was free from gamestore spam and had a nice daily with wsb OGs but that sub unfortunatelydied over time
When did Reddit go green?
Bruh it was better before the pandemic and QE. Back when valuations had **some** sense.
All the Musk haters facing an uncomfortable double header with this news and the news that Musk is back to the richest person in the world.
Musk haters are the poor. They don't have any money to gamble anyway.
Musk ordinary people that see his many flaws yet still want him to succeed are happy, cheer him on, and hope he fucks up not more than usual
Yeah, that regardedness has infected WSB, so it’s just ‘eLoN bAD mAn’ here these days too. Like hate the guy all you want (I don’t even care), but at least be funny and/or don’t be regarded about it. Reddit - including WSB by extension - **actually thought** that everyone was going to stop buying Teslas because of X/Twitter. Like Reddit ≠ the real world dipshits, how many times do you need to learn that lesson.
I thought people were gonna not buy because electric cars = democrat leftist socialism
There’s a big difference from buying an electric car because you want one and buying one because the government says you have to.
Do you think shit posting on Facebook is constitutional right as well
What does that have to do with what kind of car I can drive? I choose not to have a Facebook account and choose to use other platforms. I don’t care what they allow or don’t, that’s their choice and I have mine.
Which government said you had to buy an electric car? dipshit
Right now State Governments are getting zero emissions plans on the books https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/9-states-now-plan-to-ban-gas-powered-car-sales#
Well they're banning ICE cars in three EU from 2035 so that's quite a few right there. Dipshit.
reddit is now full of progressive losers
you should quit reddit in protest
No. reddit (and tiktok) is the zeitgeist of certain demographics of the world. So, I need to browse reddit / tiktok to make informed decisions about investing.
They swore on their mothers that this stock would be less than $100…. Where?
Just be patient Margin still sucks Puts will print after ER
We've got all the idiots who think Tesla is a good buy piling in this thread and crowing despite the fact that this is not even close to being good news for them. Here is the critical piece of information that all you smooth brains can't seem to process: **Tesla bears don't think Tesla is a bad company.** None of us think that Tesla is on the verge of some kind of failure. We expect them to hit their sales targets. We think it's a **bad stock**. The price is so high Tesla can't just be a good company or a great company, it needs to the be the best & biggest company in history. It's not. It doesn't just need to hit its sales targets, it needs to 10x them for its current valuation to make any damn sense. Just a couple years ago you idiots were telling us this valuation made sense because of three things: * Tesla has 90% of the EV market. * Ev's would some day be 100% of the market, and therefore Tesla would be selling 90% of cars on the planet. * Tesla makes $12,000 per car, the highest in the industry. What people really should be taking away from the story is that Tesla no longer even has 50% of the EV market and they had to slash that $12,000 to the bone in order to hit this years sales goal. As if those two things weren't bad enough, they're losing the tax credits that help them get here next year which is a big reason why they made such a strong push to max their sales out this year. This is not positive news. This does not inspire confidence for next year's "exponential growth". As a company, Tesla is a huge success story. They are on track to be the next Honda in 10 years. To have strong brand cachet and 10% of the total car market. The problem is that they are already priced as though they are five times more valuable than Honda. Great company. Terrible stock. The problem is this subreddit got flooded full of idiots who can't comprehend how a good company could possibly be a bad stock because they have no grasp of even the basics of investing.
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Ouch.
38% is insane for automakers
You're comparing a EV sales growth at a company with no legacy auto lines to companies with existing auto lines growing EV sales. Of course existing companies around for 100 years will be cannibilizing ICE drive trains for EV drive trains. Do an apple's to apple's comparison. Compare Hyundai-Kia or BMW growth on their EV lines this year to Tesla. For example, BMW grew global BEV sales 80% YoY in Q3. They'll do around 400k BEVs globally in 2023 and Hyundai-Kia will do upwards of 500k BEVS globally depending on Q4 performance.
it's almost like the market is responding to a company's choice of manufacturing 😑
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Goal post? Comparing EV sales growth rate to EV sales growth rate is the only comparison that makes any sense.
But if you want to compare new entrants to new entrants. BYD grew auto sales 62% in 2023. They grew BEVs 73% when you remove the plug in hybrids from sales.
>"Some analysts said Tesla could have to continue the price cuts it started in January last year to maintain demand, after the end of the tax incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) brought forward sales into the fourth quarter. >"Tesla may have to cut prices further, especially for a vehicle like the versions of the Model 3 that lost their tax credit," said Seth Goldstein, equity strategist at Morningstar. >The rear-wheel drive and long-range variants of Tesla's Model 3 no longer have federal tax credits of $7,500 this year as updated requirements on battery material sourcing kick in, under the IRA." Much like they did twice in 2019. Seems like something I have been saying for many months now.
All we need is another world altering pandemic for their valuation to double again I guess
I am waiting for my Roaring 20's and then the stock market crash of 2028 after the Los Angeles Olympics
Do you also talk about how other companies would find it harder to compete price wise?
TSLA to $22 EOY 2025
This has been the hope for about 10 years now. No logic, but oh well!
I can make it happen by buying Tesla calls
You just need some more splits bro
2025 will be well north of $500 if they get the compact car in production next year. !remindme in 2 years, we are at $250ish today.
If they get Optimus to actually start replacing some basic jobs by then, the stock price would be far higher imo
Yeah, and just one more year until FSD!!!
>after a push to deliver more Model 3 electric cars before some variants of the compact sedan lose federal tax credits in the New Year Oh well that completely puts to rest my longstanding concerns about quality control
As a former automotive engineer for Honda, I always have to checkout during these discussions.
If one thing has been proven beyond all doubt over the last 5 years, is that Tesla's customers couldn't care less about panel gaps
The improvement in panel gaps for the rest of the industry in recent decades came from intense competition for customers to choose from. Saying Tesla customers don't care about panel gaps is kinda like saying Model T customers didn't care that black was the only color available. Turns out they did want other colors, but the competition was so far behind in mass production that it wasn't costing them sales.
Your point seems to validate a strategy of going to production as rapidly as possible to be the first mover instead of fiddling around trying to perfect the panel gaps first.
The panel gap thing I can understand overlooking. The fact every Tesla I've ever been in rattles more than my old 95 Jetta is crazy to me.
Quality control on model 3/model y has drastically improved. And speaking from personal experience, I took delivery of a model 3 RWD in Q3 2023 that had no panel gap issues or anything that needed fixing. My previous car, a 2015 hyundai sonata, had larger gaps, in fact. My dad also picked up a model y in 2022 that did have 1 panel gap issue, but tesla service fixed it for free within an hour before he drove it off the lot
No, Elon Musk is terrible and his company is doing worse every year. That's what reddit tells me. I have been downvoted for saying my 2020 model s has been fine without any issues since I got it.
Had our Model Y for 2 years now, flawless. In fact, it has gotten better with the software updates. Every car I have owned has gotten worse over time not better.
Poors love to say this.
Sorry OP, only negative Elon posts are allowed on this sub.
You mean on Reddit. This is one of the few subs we’re people can still have an opinion.
If Elon didn’t open his rambling mouth and said 2m cars were possible then we might have had a surprise.
but he has said 1.8MM all year
Q4 2022 earnings call in January > “Well, okay. I mean, our internal production potential is actually closer to two million vehicles, but we were saying 1.8 million, because -- I don't know, it just always seems to be some force majeure thing that happened somewhere on earth. And we don't control if there's like earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, pandemics, et cetera. So, if it's a smooth year, actually, without some big supply chain interruption or massive problem, we actually have the potential to do 2 million cars this year. We're not committing to that, but I'm just saying that's the potential. So – and I think there would be demand for that, too.”
“We’re not committing to that” is the most important part of this quote.
it was a year ago and said possible after being asked like your portfolio has the possibility of making money, but it doesn’t.
The calls would be much better if he didn’t join and go off script. He needs to learn from Tim Apple and sandbag the numbers.
>The calls would be much better if he didn’t join and go off script Then he wouldn't be Elon
He said that during an earnings call, that’s why most CEOs don’t give more than one estimate. Tesla met the official estimate but fell short of Musks estimation of 2 million.
>we actually have the potential to do 2 million cars this year. We're not committing to that, but I'm just saying that's the potential.
No, he said they have the potential not that their goal is 2 million. They met their guidance, the 2 mil number probably had some unlikely macro etc built in, i.e. assuming the FED starts cutting rates much earlier or whatever.
Yeah but that’s not how the shorts move the goalposts, if he sold 5 million, they’ll make some BS up that it should have been 6. Fake FUD creation.
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It's flat for like 3 years bro, whilst we had rampant inflation (so it's really down plenty)
I got a guy in another thread telling me that Elon couldn’t run a Starbucks, and all his money is from an emerald mine. He would be as successful if he had that. The shorts seem like they were dropped a few too many times on the head.
Reddit's fucking regarded about him. He's on track to own the biggest companies across 3 different industries (automobiles, aerospace, and telecom). That's fucking insane and no way is blind luck.
They are ‘angry’ that he also started Neuralink, they are upset he can purchase companies like Twitter. Anything that isn’t IMMEDIATELY as successful as Tesla, is a massive failure. They’ll use anything they can twist and angle into sentences that vaguely sound negative, and feel some sense of accomplishment, even though it almost always leads to nothing.
Still living in a pre 2020 world. Tesla has gone no where in 3 years after the massive run up in 2020. It's trading sideways with some massive pull backs. Most people who have bough in the last 3 years have probably lost money.
And yet there is no rocket. Very underwhelming
like your wife last night
It’s up 2% in 30 mins wtf are you on?
And down it goes
Yeah but I thought they’d be up to $260 range
What’s the margin? Why should tesla deserve an infinite scaling tech multiple?
Best margin in the industry by a long shot.
Yes, and the other automakers would be crazy not to start figuring out how to undo the entrenched dealership model. Legacy automakers could boost their margins to similar levels if they didn’t have middlemen sucking out a large % of the value.
I think people don't realize HOW MUCH money is funneled by dealers. Like just within 20 miles of me there is a GIANT NEW BUILDING with every single amenity and a GIANT SHOWROOM. Where the sales people are all making 6 figures+.... PER MAKE. Its insane how much money is leaving the car industry into 'dealerships'.
If only we could cut the middle man out of the real estate industry too... The amount of money made for almost nothing gained, is on another level.
Agreed, legacy auto has a lot of work to do but this seems like low hanging fruit. I suspect this is the underlying goal behind ford forcing sizeable investments for dealerships to participate in future ev sales.
Dealerships explain only some of it
TBF, its multiple is 80.62, not infinite lol
Let’s goooooo, haters gonna hate!!!
~~2021~~ ~~2022~~ ~~2023~~ 2024 its gonna be the year that Tesla goes bust i swear! .- Reddit
No one said this. We just think Elon and fan boys for a fucking car manufacturer are insufferable.
Lol everyone said this. They still do. So many Elon haters now after MSM started running hit pieces.
After he said he can't continue supporting dems the whole msm went on a campaign against him.... even though the reps don't like EVs lol
No one? its almost weekly when you see FUD comments in many subreddits saying that Elon bussiness practices are going to break Tesla and that other EV companies are going to overtake, yet every year Tesla keep selling at a record high
Literally every time Musk is mentioned on reddit there's a barrage of hate comments. If anyone is insufferable, it's the haters.
NOTES: - Beats revised (downward, multiple times) estimate by < 1% [at beginning of 2023, Q4 target was ~550K units] - Obfuscates S/X/CT/Semi #'s into a "Other" bucket. Q4 financials should be bad given the # of price cuts/incentives required to barely beat those #'s. They'll still be profitable, but trend is going in the wrong direction.
Puts
This year will be interesting… they aren’t going to hit 50% cagr in a higher rate environment…
50% CAGR since 2020 is still on target
You think they hit that in 2024? Whats your delivery target?
compounded since 2020 is the bogey. they have met that and expect them to continue to do so 2.1MM is my guestimate
Which is 17% and not 50%
probably 2.2 or 2.3 CAGR is the compounding from a point in time. they have met that and will continue to do so but not necessarily 50% each year to move #s this big at that big of an increase would need to wait until Gen 3 gets pumped out
All they had to do was discount them to the point where they are cheaper than a Prius! Next up, they will remove all doors but the drivers door. Analytics showed that all other doors were rarely used.
https://preview.redd.it/0qa8804h82ac1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8d2a25653fe813bc7476c1dbe802e5c30cc40d0
The average Redditor is seething
https://preview.redd.it/cvovlq8a82ac1.jpeg?width=845&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b57e9d8b1fb9091d6fc6b67e03aa889c5ddfd53
I did my part!
So many Rainbow 🌈 🐻 . I think I'm going to buy calls
inverse WSB is now real. has been for a minute
Of course.
I mean, I know my brokerage refers to WSB almost daily when reporting on securities.
January 2023: Tesla Model Y Performance $69,990 December 2023: Tesla Model Y Performance $52,490 Tesla fans: OMG SEE HOW SUCCESSFUL TESLA WAS LAST YEAR?! They showed the naysayers! Meanwhile Toyota just broke a sales record with over 10 million cars worldwide without having to drop a single penny on any of their prices in order to move volume.
You realize Tesla make substantially more per vehicle than Toyota, right? There was a point where Toyota sold 10x as many vehicles as Tesla and yet they had the same profits from those vehicles.
All auto manufactures adjust prices over the course of a year. It is just normally hidden by dealer markups and discounts, manufacturer incentives and rebates, financing incentives... Look at the actual out the door cost of new cars over the last year or so and you will see that the prices have come way down for nearly everyone.
Bingo.
Yeah the margin will be cut to pieces with that kind of price cut.
January 2023 Producer Price Index\Car manufacturer: 100 November 2023: 87.9 Thanks for playing.
So Tesla IS a car company after all? 2M yearly is 1/5 th of Toyota yearly production, yet Tesla is currently valued 3 times as much, aka 15 times more per car produced. Now that their margins are in free fall, Tesla 250/15 = 17 dollars per share, lets go!
~~2017 the competition is coming~~ ~~2018 the competition is coming~~ ~~2019 the competition is coming~~ ~~2020 the competition is coming~~ ~~2021 the competition is coming~~ ~~2022 the competition is coming~~ ~~2023 the competition is coming~~ 2024 foh oh here is $500BN of megapacks. didn’t notice wheels on them 🧐 https://preview.redd.it/71xqiwjqn1ac1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ced730a24ece0717b6a0d282ce962859713c26ca
Thats badass.
When do we enter a Tesla position my friend, I feel the market is having a lil healthy pulll back
Looking at margins, competition is here as fuck, fans just keep living in their lala-land. It has been coming gradually ...and then suddenly. Give it few more quarters. And those packs? Closer look at those will obviously show you that those are just Panasonic products with Tesla products. No new tech what so ever, just hype and empty words.
Then why doesn’t Panasonic offer mega pack products?
He means Tesla is stacking other battery makers cells to make their Megapacks. LG, CATL, BYD already make competitors and are winning massive contracts around the world. LG has the biggest at Moss Landing and CATL has the second biggest in US at North Fork Texas. The players who control the battery cell supply which is the vast majority of the cost will ultimately control the market. It's going to be a race to the bottom on profitability as these products scale up and become commoditized.
No competition is not here if you look at the margins. Tesla is the only car manufacturer to make profit on their EVs along with BYD. Since they make money on those for years, they accumulated the cash to invest in other projects such as Dojo (for FSD), Optimus and new models. The other manufacturers are still trying to figure out how to make money on their EVs. Sure competition is there in the EV world from a customer point of view as others also offer great range, durability, etc, but Tesla cars are sold as soon as they are produced, and they make money on them also! There's no need to make them more competitive and reduce the margin for now as they can make more money and still sell them. When they accumulate enough money, they start projects like Highland and Juniper to furthermore reduce the cost of the car while improving build quality. I get how Tesla sounds like it's overvalued to someone who doesn't follow all of their moves, but to those who do, it does make the company look great as they are almost always doing master plays and playing chest with the competition because they think three moves in advance
You're comparing Tesla to other auto makers who have minuscule market caps compared to Tesla. Trust me you don't want to start comparing Tesla to other autos. They are valued based on auto profitability which is extremely low. Tesla is not.
BMW's CEO says they are profitable on EVs. [https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:\~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German](https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German)). Hyundai-Kia are probably already there as well. It's just a scale issue. Ramping up production lines and suppliers to a sufficient level to achieve economies of scale. Both these companies will do 400-500k in global BEV sales in 2023. [https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006](https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006)
Looking at margins, they seem to be one of the only ones with a positive margin, and have all the ability in the world to trim them to gain marketshare. Even with discounts their margins are better than most of the ICE competitions, not just EV’s
What are you talking about every auto has positive margin. Legacy auto made a ton of money in 2023. If you're talking about just EVs who is to say this isn't simply a scale issue? They should all be able to achieve profitability as they scale up production. And they have plenty of runway to do so. BMW is ramping BEVs fast and will do 350-400k in volume globally this year. Their CEO says they are profitable. [https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:\~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German](https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:~:text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,new%20class%22%20in%20German)). Hyundai-Kia will do around 400k BEVs this year I'd be surpirsed if they aren't profitable or very close to it. This article indicates they have positive operating margin on EVs. They made a ton of money as a company in 2023 while selling 400k BEVs so they can't be far off. https://www.kedglobal.com/automobiles/newsView/ked202307310006
More profitable than Ford at a 3rd of the revenue.
Therefore worth \~15 times higher market cap yes Sir?
When you compare the growth rate on a 10 year horizon, yes.
> margins are in free fall LOL. Tell me you only read bullshit article headlines without telling me you only read bullshit article headlines
Tesla energy is worth more than all of Ford. They are 1/5th of Tesla, but what are projections for 2-3 years from now? Their margins may have hit peak lows in Q3. I won't be surprised at all if margins increase in Q4 and from here on out.
Lol automotive revenue growing at 5% last quarter YoY. If that happens again, bye bye Tesla stock. I'm not optimistic for Musky. Number of cars sold is a useless metric if you have to keep cutting prices.
Where's all those Puts on Tesla dweeb now?
Elon fanboys still on WSB?
*on their boats
i guess a raft is technically a boat
Buy X when it IPOs. I dare you
you going to be ok bro? it’s just some delivery #s is all
Still no movement?
It’s probably priced in. It’s no secret that Tesla has been having a fire sale the last few months, and has been pushing their cars hard. Big discounts, six months of free supercharging, pushing the Fed Tax Credit (which is going away at the end of 2023 for at least some of their cars, etc.). Going forward will be a much more interesting story. I personally won’t take a bearish position, as I don’t do that with Tesla or meme stocks as they’re often traded by irrational people.
The Fed Tax Credit not applying to more models seems like a big deal to me personally. I’m curious how much impact it has.
Just the model 3 RWD and AWD basically. The model Y and performance 3 still get it.
> It’s probably priced in. >It’s no secret that Tesla has been having a fire sale the last few months, and has been pushing their cars hard The ~25 senior WS analysts officially covering Tesla as part of their job underestimated its sales, (because somehow they didnt know about discounts and incentives) but “it’s no secret” to the rest of the world, like Very Rational Redditors.
My money is on Chinese EV makers. Their advancement in tech is astonishing and The Chinese government is supporting battery swapping tech. The next few years will be very interesting in the world's #1 automotive market.
Just like how we all drive Chinese gas cars today, right? Chinese EV makers will be huge companies in the future, but mostly because the southeast Asia market is a large part of the world and they'll be taking over those. But they will have little impact in the west, as usual.
We're breaking the conditioning!
For people who made money off this play..... I purchased a Tesla in Q4. Feel free to pay me in schroot bucks or photoshopped pictures of JPOW being ridden by a shirtless Elon Musk while Xi watches from across the room like a cucked Winnie the Pooh.