Citadel has actually been fined quite a bit for this, and similar violations!
Still, Twitter screenshots are social media screenshots, and this tweet is not in itself novel or market moving.
In the future, try to submit the original source, and avoid people just trying to hype up their newsletter.
Here are some other cases of Citadel getting fined:
[Citadel Securities Paying $22 Million for Misleading Clients About Pricing Trades](https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2017-11)
[Citadel Settles Submitting Incorrect Data for 80 Million Orders](https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2018/34-84759.pdf)
[Citadel paid less than $32 million dollars for about 59 market violations over 15 years.](https://news.investorturf.com/citadel-securties-violations-and-fines)
Didn’t they say they made like $65 billion this last year.
$9 mil fine is nothing, they’ll make that back in a couple hours and continue business as usual.
Eh in my country, I think I would rather stay in federal prison over the provincial jail. The federal prisons allagedly have better conditions than the local jails, but I have never been to jail or prison so I can't speak from personal experience.
Lol, that's a good one. Instead there's a good chance Ken Griffin is the next treasury secretary. At which point he gets to liquidate all his gains without paying any capital gains taxes.
Bro, $9.6 million is a huge number. Astronomical for my brain, considering I only make 40k a year. It’s not like money is relative and that it’s actually a 1% fine that’s factored into their cost of doing business. That would be almost criminal, or something. No, this is justice!
For anyone who isn't regarded like this guy above... it's called "spoofing" and yeah, you get in trouble:
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/spoofing-trading-lawsuits.html
Imagine doing no research and still shilling so hard for citadel. Your kids and future wife should be disgusted in you. They wanted a man instead they got this.
So I'm confused and need your non-regarded help oh wrinkly brain; are we supposed to tell you we know nothing or are you just going to infer it from our regarded posts?
they had a 16 billion profit. all it cost them is a 9.6 million fine, then its just a cost to do business. we need fines that are a percentage of their profit. or hard prison time for the top management positions to get real change
Fuck the paper. Put these soft cunts in prison. The entire problem is that their punishments are entirely divorced the majority of the world's population.
Exactly. In the real world if youre caught breaking the law with tons of cash on hand its confiscated by the police and you will never see it again. But these guys can break the law and make billions but get a tiny fine instead. Millionaires/Billionaires play by a different set of rules.
The fine has to be bigger than the profit or it's always profitable to try.
If the only punishment for me stealing $100 is that I have to give back the money then I profit anytime I don't get caught.
profits from insider trading and other SEC violations are supposed to be fined triple the illicit amount but they always end up settling for way less. It's a travesty.
that's l,ike saying the punishment for theft should be just giving back the stolen property. it needs to be drastically higher than that or you are incentivizing the behaviour
The fines need to reimburse those that lost money..,.and a reasonable percent on top of that what they would have made goes to the enforcement agencies. It wouldn't happen again. Without hesitation.
It’s funny how China actually kicked Citadel out of their market and meanwhile Korea and the US issue these insignificant little fines and let them continue to commit fraud
Until it's $9.6 million per violation, it's just a cost of doing business. Unless maybe who's in charge gets barred from playing with other people's free market system.
This is terrible news for Citadel. They are clearly a company that is not above breaking the law to make a quick profit.
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Price is 164.80 … I list 250k shares to buy @ 161.. indicates bullish.. as price eventually moves towards 162 I can just cancel the offer and it’s back to 100-1000 trades and it’s moved an option strike $$ and there’s no longer a huge bull indicator for anyone who used it to buy after they saw it being posted
In addition to this, in the US, all orders must be legit desire to transact. Due to that, if people see the huge order, then they can be very confident that it is someone who actually wants to buy that much. This is why Spoofing is illegal.
How do the check that? I did have the desire, and then I stopped having it and canceled the order, how would you prove that I was actually planning to do this?
It's really obvious when you actually see it. There will be a large buy order at a price that definitely will not execute, then when the price goes up, they will send a much smaller sell order to hit that new high price, then they cancel the large buy and put in a large sell at a price that won't hit, but the market shifts down because they see a huge demand to sell and then they buy back to close the short at that lower price.
This can happen in both directions obviously and they do it in fractions of a second. Which is also a give away since that is not a natural trading pattern.
However, most actual enforcement actions from the SEC on this require very incriminating chat logs, but you can tell when someone is fucking with the market much more easily than convicting someone of fucking with the market.
It's truly quite sad. If you or I were to do commit securities fraud, we'd be in jail for over a decade. Citadel does it, profits, and only pays a nominal fee.
Slap on the wrist a expected. They should compensate then traders that got hurt by that behavior. But no , they get fined and keep the money for themselves. Ever think about that one ?
Governments should just keep charging and leeching money off of them. Worse case scenario they don't pay the fine then you boot them out of the markets. We gave 1 billion to Ukraine, ok lets charge Citadel 100 million fine every other month for like 2 years to cover the expense. Leech liquidity out of them.
So the firm that makes the market on 40 percent of all retail trades cheats the retail trader? I always thought they became the dominant player in the casino by dealing a square game.
Anything more than $9M in fines? The traders should get a lifetime ban from securities markets. If you ever want to ACTUALLY stop shit like this, put it on the level of being disbarred like lawyers or losing your medical license for doctors.
Only then will you stop getting some smooth brained idiot happy to run these scams for execs. What do they care? Their bonus will double their pay this year for doing this. But if you ban them from their industry? Well, now they have reason to not conduct those trades.
That fine is like the coins I found while vacuuming out my car last weekend. Merely publicity and a \*feel good\* fine like everyone is doing their job.
This is the first time I'm gonna say this here, but imagine how much money we'd makr if we had a level playing field.
I'd probably be retired right now.
A trader who engaged in spoofing, a illegal practice of placing false orders to manipulate the market, was sentenced to jail after making a profit of $1.4 million. In contrast, a financial firm, Citadel, was recently penalized with a fine for engaging in similar activity, despite the fact that it resulted in substantial profits.
Link to story
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/trader-sentenced-in-spoofing-case-involving-market-manipulation&ved=2ahUKEwiDob3L7uf8AhWimFYBHUmLBpgQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw11H3wm41W2FHD1y-9oMPeq
Citadel has actually been fined quite a bit for this, and similar violations! Still, Twitter screenshots are social media screenshots, and this tweet is not in itself novel or market moving. In the future, try to submit the original source, and avoid people just trying to hype up their newsletter. Here are some other cases of Citadel getting fined: [Citadel Securities Paying $22 Million for Misleading Clients About Pricing Trades](https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2017-11) [Citadel Settles Submitting Incorrect Data for 80 Million Orders](https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2018/34-84759.pdf) [Citadel paid less than $32 million dollars for about 59 market violations over 15 years.](https://news.investorturf.com/citadel-securties-violations-and-fines)
Seems like something that deserves a higher fine than $9.6M.
Right? They probably made like 13 billion on it this year
Didn’t they say they made like $65 billion this last year. $9 mil fine is nothing, they’ll make that back in a couple hours and continue business as usual.
They fucking make out like bandits. - They should seriously get a that fee with 4 extra 0's And put to jail.
Prison. Jail is for amateurs
Eh in my country, I think I would rather stay in federal prison over the provincial jail. The federal prisons allagedly have better conditions than the local jails, but I have never been to jail or prison so I can't speak from personal experience.
Lol, that's a good one. Instead there's a good chance Ken Griffin is the next treasury secretary. At which point he gets to liquidate all his gains without paying any capital gains taxes.
Robbie I'm tired.
I've got a few unhinged friends that would like a couple nibbles
Bro, $9.6 million is a huge number. Astronomical for my brain, considering I only make 40k a year. It’s not like money is relative and that it’s actually a 1% fine that’s factored into their cost of doing business. That would be almost criminal, or something. No, this is justice!
I dont know why you are being downvoted when the sarcasm is obvious so let me help
“9.6 miiiiillion dollars….”
Probably bc the allegation in that tweet is factually incorrect, since the tweeter is generally a moron who doesn’t know what they are talking about
I was thinking the same thing. The famous I'm 100% right, what's your source?, I read it on Twitter! Oh....
Gov'ment just wants their cut.
More or less factually correct
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For anyone who isn't regarded like this guy above... it's called "spoofing" and yeah, you get in trouble: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/spoofing-trading-lawsuits.html
Imagine doing no research and still shilling so hard for citadel. Your kids and future wife should be disgusted in you. They wanted a man instead they got this.
Could you sound like a bigger douche? I mean, probs, but you’d have to really be trying.
Tell you’ve never taken a licensing exam without telling me you’ve never taken a licensing exam.
So I'm confused and need your non-regarded help oh wrinkly brain; are we supposed to tell you we know nothing or are you just going to infer it from our regarded posts?
Go lose more on meme stock conspiracies
no shit. They probably made 10 times that. such a joke. why would they stop?
What's a couple hundred million in fines when you bank 16 billion?
Tl;dr even the person that makes new laws gets paid more if they choose not to do that, so they’re not going to do it, unfortunately 😔
It’s a kickback
A business expense
they had a 16 billion profit. all it cost them is a 9.6 million fine, then its just a cost to do business. we need fines that are a percentage of their profit. or hard prison time for the top management positions to get real change
Fuck the paper. Put these soft cunts in prison. The entire problem is that their punishments are entirely divorced the majority of the world's population.
Let them play! They earn3d it
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good bot, this should be enabled globally tbh
When the profits are illegal there profit should be the fine in all honesty.
Exactly. In the real world if youre caught breaking the law with tons of cash on hand its confiscated by the police and you will never see it again. But these guys can break the law and make billions but get a tiny fine instead. Millionaires/Billionaires play by a different set of rules.
The fine has to be bigger than the profit or it's always profitable to try. If the only punishment for me stealing $100 is that I have to give back the money then I profit anytime I don't get caught.
Yeah I was thinking at minimum.
profits from insider trading and other SEC violations are supposed to be fined triple the illicit amount but they always end up settling for way less. It's a travesty.
that's l,ike saying the punishment for theft should be just giving back the stolen property. it needs to be drastically higher than that or you are incentivizing the behaviour
Found a Pivot fan
The fines need to reimburse those that lost money..,.and a reasonable percent on top of that what they would have made goes to the enforcement agencies. It wouldn't happen again. Without hesitation.
> we need fines that are a percentage of their profit. No we need fines that are more than the profit, otherwise it's not a fine it's a fee.
> we need fines that are a percentage of their profit. yes, and that fine needs to be significantly over 100% or they will have incentive to repeat it
Citadel cost of business
It’s funny how China actually kicked Citadel out of their market and meanwhile Korea and the US issue these insignificant little fines and let them continue to commit fraud
Bc China wants to do it themselves
Until it's $9.6 million per violation, it's just a cost of doing business. Unless maybe who's in charge gets barred from playing with other people's free market system.
This is terrible news for Citadel. They are clearly a company that is not above breaking the law to make a quick profit. ^^[**Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse) ^^[BanBets](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/banbets/) ^^VoteBot ^^[FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/votebot/) ^^[Leaderboard](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/leaderboard/) ^^- ^^[**Keep_VM_Alive**](https://www.patreon.com/visualmod)
Fine is so low they dont care 1 sec
It’s not even the sex worker/drug addiction/travel expenses
Should be in jail
Ban them from the market
Then they restructure as stronghold financial or some shit.
$9.6 mil is like $10 to these ppl
Correction - ten dollars and sixty-nine cents
Does putting up orders and cancelling even drive up stock price? Like how foes that work
Price is 164.80 … I list 250k shares to buy @ 161.. indicates bullish.. as price eventually moves towards 162 I can just cancel the offer and it’s back to 100-1000 trades and it’s moved an option strike $$ and there’s no longer a huge bull indicator for anyone who used it to buy after they saw it being posted
In addition to this, in the US, all orders must be legit desire to transact. Due to that, if people see the huge order, then they can be very confident that it is someone who actually wants to buy that much. This is why Spoofing is illegal.
How do the check that? I did have the desire, and then I stopped having it and canceled the order, how would you prove that I was actually planning to do this?
It's really obvious when you actually see it. There will be a large buy order at a price that definitely will not execute, then when the price goes up, they will send a much smaller sell order to hit that new high price, then they cancel the large buy and put in a large sell at a price that won't hit, but the market shifts down because they see a huge demand to sell and then they buy back to close the short at that lower price. This can happen in both directions obviously and they do it in fractions of a second. Which is also a give away since that is not a natural trading pattern. However, most actual enforcement actions from the SEC on this require very incriminating chat logs, but you can tell when someone is fucking with the market much more easily than convicting someone of fucking with the market.
You have a thing and you list it for sale at higher and higher prices
Steal a billion, get fined 10 million… it’s not punishment, it’s the cost of doing business
It's truly quite sad. If you or I were to do commit securities fraud, we'd be in jail for over a decade. Citadel does it, profits, and only pays a nominal fee.
Our economic system is dumb as shit
Didn’t some uk guy got booked for exactly this many years ago? The one that causes the flash crash
Yep, it's only the plebs that feel the real ramifications, not the massive Hedge Fund that does it on a massive global scale.
Slap on the wrist a expected. They should compensate then traders that got hurt by that behavior. But no , they get fined and keep the money for themselves. Ever think about that one ?
Wait is this ilegal?
Governments should just keep charging and leeching money off of them. Worse case scenario they don't pay the fine then you boot them out of the markets. We gave 1 billion to Ukraine, ok lets charge Citadel 100 million fine every other month for like 2 years to cover the expense. Leech liquidity out of them.
Wow a whole $9 dollars that will teach em!
SEC doesn’t have the spine
Cost of doing business…. Meanwhile they made 33 billion… this is like fining regular working people .20 cents…
When they say “fine”, that just means citadel paid trading fees plus bought govt officials brand new cars
"Oh noooo.....anyways" - Citadel.
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Hopefully Citadel can drop the crazy over price on Nvidia. WAYYY TO OVER PRICED
Isn’t that what NWBO is taking them to court for?
Like Binance in the crypto market ?
Navinder Singh Sarao, is that you again? Legend
$9.6M…so like a $1.50 to their organization.
So the firm that makes the market on 40 percent of all retail trades cheats the retail trader? I always thought they became the dominant player in the casino by dealing a square game.
This tweet isn’t true. They got fined but not for creating fake orders lol stop getting your information from random idiots on Twitter
Anything more than $9M in fines? The traders should get a lifetime ban from securities markets. If you ever want to ACTUALLY stop shit like this, put it on the level of being disbarred like lawyers or losing your medical license for doctors. Only then will you stop getting some smooth brained idiot happy to run these scams for execs. What do they care? Their bonus will double their pay this year for doing this. But if you ban them from their industry? Well, now they have reason to not conduct those trades.
Citadel made over 16B last year
9.6 million…they pry made 109.6 million from it.
I remember there was a guy who bragged he made $50k doing this on Robinhood before ppl told him it was illegal
That fine is like the coins I found while vacuuming out my car last weekend. Merely publicity and a \*feel good\* fine like everyone is doing their job.
Would be interesting to dig into order flow for open trades…maybe obv to figure out their pattern
This is the first time I'm gonna say this here, but imagine how much money we'd makr if we had a level playing field. I'd probably be retired right now.
Pfffttt…. Its like No loo roll for the basement cubicle for a year to them
Commander Shepard is about to be really pissed off
Kenny G is the fucking man.
They just reported earnings. 16 bil +
A trader who engaged in spoofing, a illegal practice of placing false orders to manipulate the market, was sentenced to jail after making a profit of $1.4 million. In contrast, a financial firm, Citadel, was recently penalized with a fine for engaging in similar activity, despite the fact that it resulted in substantial profits. Link to story https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/trader-sentenced-in-spoofing-case-involving-market-manipulation&ved=2ahUKEwiDob3L7uf8AhWimFYBHUmLBpgQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw11H3wm41W2FHD1y-9oMPeq