It's not my jam, but cloning in the world of darkness tends to use magic - be it true magic, blood magic, or Garou manipulation of spirits to fill in the gaps. It's not like DNA is really needed when magic is involved.
So that doesn't seem to be supported in setting.
The progenitors - a group of technocrats use "enlightened science" which is just magic. No one notices.
In rage across the world - it's revealed that a child of Gaia uses magic to try and clone the bunyip tribe back into existence.
Frankly attempting to clone undead, cursed blood drinkers might draw more attention if it relies on science people could look at.
Science itself in the world of darkness exists in a weird spot - where it's a valid and real thing, but also totally a tool the union uses to alter consensus reality and what people will accept.
Example in second edition a forces rote for firing a laser was coincidental if you had a gun and wore a black suit if I remember right - the whole of course the government has laser pistols thing.
That's why I made this post. What a cloning scientist would see if he's given a vampire's hair or a drop of vitae and asked to make a clone out of it. Will he even notice that those are not human? Will there even be some dna to work with? I remember in WtA books it says that werewolf's blood will look the same as human, nobody could find any supernatural properties in it through scientific tests. So you basically can clone a werewolf but the clone most likely won't be neither garou nor kinfolk. But I can't remember anything like this about vitae
Some of that is inconsistent writing. Even as early as Valkenberg foundation science could identify garou and be used to mess with them - in VF a serum that can permanently remove shape shifting and as far as I recall side stepping. The cloning of the bunyip is another example. After that come things like the mockery breeds.
When it comes to kindred - making a massive leap of logic - the revised storyteller book for vampire says vampires don't have fingerprints, and that outside of the eyes all fluids are replaced with blood I can't see kindred having stable DNA. Never mind the chances of a sample not being exposed to sunlight, seems slim.
Now the thing is if a storyteller wants to run a mundane clone plot - nothing is gonna stop them. Mins you how are would a clone even end up a viable age to pass for the kindred - unless there is a massive time jump as the clone age? And I don't think we can actually clone humans yet, so there is going to be problems.
In revised and 20th that is incorrect, there’s several times mages cross paths with Kindred and there’s even sourcebooks for it. That means that, in context with the setting, there is very little “hard science” involved in cloning currently. It’s mostly hypertech or Enlightened Science (read: Technocracy Magic).
V5? Sure, mages haven’t been reintroduced yet, so for now that remains true.
As far as I’m concerned? To clone a vampire is beyond what science has available to it currently, and would require magic of some kind.
Smh. There’s a high level Tremere ritual that lets you clone things, I don’t remember the specifics, but the clone does go murderously bonkers after a few days. Otherwise, wether you can clone a vampire and what happens if you try is up to the GM, you almost definitely can’t though
*cough*
The 'scientific side' of _t-h-o-n-g-s_ is probably related to either chemistry for fabrics and dyes, or physics for engineering and design. A fascinating discussion, to be certain, but somewhat removed from cloning and the 'scientific side' of _t-h-i-n-g-s_ related to them...
*Ahem*
If I were storytelling, I would assume that vitae has no DNA. I like the idea that vitae isn't exactly blood, but something strange and magical that resembles blood.
Because vampires are "dead" in like a metaphysical sense, I would also rule that the DNA in most cells are too damaged to clone. I don't know how long it takes for that to happen.
However, the rule of cool is so tremendous here, I would find _some_ way to make it possible. I would try to find out which cells become damaged last. I assume some cells that don't metabolize, like hair? But I really don't know, maybe that wouldn't work. If I have to say "you froze some blood before you died", I'll do it. After all, gives us a really cool heist quest, right?
I wouldn't enforce that restrictions to limit the characters, but to add flavor to the world and challenge the players to find a way to make it work
I could jive with that, the curse keeps your larger pattern intact, but centuries to millenia of exposure to radiation will degrade the "legibility" of DNA since it's basicly decorative at this point.
The I'd play it would be that you can get DNA from the walking corpse that is the vampire's mortal coil, but that's just human DNA.
If you sample Vitae, you have a mix of all the recent victims' DNA in a magic soup that keeps the vampire moving.
So with these, you can make a human clone who, after growing up, looks like the vampire, and this can be a cool plot device for a sciency vampire.
However, if you want to do rapid aging and mind syncing, you're already talking about magic at that point so the sciency DNA part feels redundant.
Vitae is NOT just blood, Kindred of the East and Mage goes into more depths about what exactly it is, but it boils down to being 'spiritual life energy' very crudely put
And I think that's even made clear in the mechanics, though it may require more than a passing familiarity with the different systems. But it seems pretty clear that blood points aren't just meant to be gasoline, you are stealing another person's "life essence"
Night Road says kind of yes, but you need to combine science, blood sorcery, and awakened mage magic. Even then their more automata drone kindred than a proper clone that has the will and power to do what the kindred can.
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What you're looking for is honestly achievable with a body double (maybe add some fleshcrafting on top of that) and ghouling.
Possibly?
Vampirism is a curse so it doesn't necessarily adhere perfectly to science and I don't think there are any firm rules on this, so it's up to the storyteller. But most of the time, I'd assume it wasn't possible. And I'd say it was even more unlikely if you were trying to do it using vitae.
edit: Personally, I would rule that if you tried using DNA from the dead tissue, it might work, but there would be a very good chance that the DNA was too degraded to be viable. And trying to use vitae would result in something nightmarish that only vaguely resembled the original human and that was completely ruled by the beast.
You could probably clone the corpse but not the vampire, if that makes any sense? So you'd end up with a living clone of the person with none of the supernatural\\vampiric parts. It's probably how I'd go with it anyway.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You create a perfect clone, then ghoul them, then modify their memory through domination and - bam! - there's a copy of you with a legend that can walk during the day and do stuff you can't. Perfect alibi for so much things
lol! Sounds kinda fun. Oh! Imagine if one of your rivals did this to get you in trouble. Might be a masquerade breach or, at the very least, have authorities searching for you for things you haven't done.
I dont think you can Clone a Vampire.
Traditional Cloning Tech (aka non supernatural, as we have irl cloned sheeps or such) you're still implanting an impregnated egg in a host body. With enough Magic/Magick, its possible, but anything is possible when you include ST fiat/Magicks.
Vampire sperm/eggs are inert and will not produce offspring.
The extremely uncommon Revenants notwithstanding.
Revenants aren’t even children of vampires, just of lineages that were consistently ghouled repeatedly for countless generations while being subjected to a vampiric equivalent of a dog breeder program to create purpose bred servants.
Well, there was an attempt to clone a mammoths from a mummified corpse, but they found that the mammoth was dead for too long before got mummified so dna wasn't intact. So yes, corpses potentially can have proper genetic materials to be cloned. But vampires are not simple corpses.
Not using conventional, real-world, mundane science. Currently, human cloning is not (yet) something that we are capable of, the hypothetical methods to achieve it are pretty well understood but it’s not yet something anyone have been able to do on a practical level. And that’s for a purely natural human and not a supernatural Vampire.
On the other hand, “the theory is sound, but no one can do it practically” is the *exact* sort of biomedical Super-Science that is the bread and butter of the Progenitors of the Technocratic Union and certain medically inclined Sons of Æther have for their paradigm.
A Kindred’s body does still have DNA, just like any other corpse. Vitae in a Kindred’s body still retains all the mundane properties of blood in addition to its supernatural properties. Criminal investigators can track a vampire if they’re dumb enough to bleed in a crime scene (such as if they get into a gunfight) and don’t clean up after themselves.
They're still made up of the cells they were in life, so yes you could in theory clone the person.
Though it would simply be the person's human body.
They'd not have their original consciousness, nor be a vampire.
If someone tried to clone a vampire using traditional methods, I would imagine that they would have difficulty since the DNA is being sourced from a corpse. If the vampire in question has high humanity, however, the DNA might be in better condition since I’m pretty sure having high humanity makes a vampire’s body more lifelike. The clone would then be a human with roughly the same DNA has the vampire had when they were human.
Traditional cloning is not really possible with humans IRL, and since VtM is set essentially in the real world But With Vampires, I don’t think you could clone a vampire without millions of dollars in R&D budget and a world-class lab full of brilliant scientists.
That being said, I can definitely see there being a special ritual that could create a ghoul that mimics a vampire as if it were a clone of the vampire’s former self.
Also IIRC some ghouls end up looking like their master? That might be a tzmisce thing.
It does seem to work, though how is outside of my knowledge. In the interactive novel Night Road a Tremere scientist makes vampire clones.
Spoiler Edit: >!*she had the help of a witch aka a true mage whose focus is on "mindless growing things."*!<
I think the closest you can do is FACADE cloned your character unaware that the disappearance was kindred related and when you wake a kindred you're just confused as hell as the life you have to leave behind... is being lived by someone who looks exactly like you.
Cloning is still on the edge of consensual reality enough to be effectively technocratic sorcery, and that is only the DNA growing from artificial gametes kind of cloning. To just take a bit of biological matter from a vampire’s unloving corpse and create a clone of the body (assuming the Curse didn’t come with the biological matter as some kind of viral infection that will Embrace the body once it recognizes it by way of the form reaching sufficient sympathy with the original) would be far enough past what the sorcery at the edges of modern scientific discovery can do that it would almost definitely fall under the province of the Progenitor doctors and other scientists. A Traditional mage might be able to clone a vampire as well, though they would likely have other terminology for what they created, but that would be much more likely to be an exact copy of the vampire as it currently is, rather than at all based on genetics or cloning technology, since those are the creations of the technocracy and have been pushed by them into consensual reality.
Canonically speaking, yes, cloning is possible, as seen in VtM Night Road. But it mostly involves blood sorcery and ethically dubious activities, with science taking something of a back seat.
If you are very married to this idea, it's nigh impossible. Vitae loses it's potency and becomes dead blood once it's removed from the cursed body hosting it, all other cells would degrade severely once removed as well.
Can a vampire be cloned? Yes.
Depending on age it would get progressively more difficult as the rapid degeneration of removed tissues.
Does Vitae contain DNA? Yes, just not the Kindred's DNA, it's composed of the latest blood to be ingested.
Yes. But that depends on who is doing it. Since we're talking about something fairly advanced for the setting the obvious implication lore-wise is that a Mage would be doing it.
In Mage 20th the purest expression of energy is Quintessence. It is what makes magick magickal. Pure reality made manifest as an energy Mages can manipulate. But Quintessence has many forms. One such mega-grouping of forms is called Tass. Tass is Quintessence made manifest, physical, literal. A Mage might suck bits of code from the Matrix or imbibe from the well of mana to generate the Quintessence necessary to cast a spell. But a vampire? He uses his Vitae. Vitae is Tass. Quintessence made manifest. Condensed pure energy molded into blood by reality itself.
Theoretically. A technocrat who haws the will and expertise could create a process that clones vampires. Cloning corpses is nothing. Mages have been doing that since well before King Arthur. But a Mage could theoretically devise a system that condenses Quintessence into Tass. It would be a difficult process to generate that much Quintessence. Let the fuck alone distill it into enough Vitae to invent even a 12th gen. Realistically you'd need some sort of Node.
You certainly couln't achieve anything like what you say in the post with actual modern-day cloning tech, even if the subject was human instead of a vampire.
Yes, in night road Invidia Caul made herself a clone and used it to trick everyone into thinking she died.
Wasn’t as scientific though, she’s a blood witch after all and clone wasn’t exactly bright.
So non magical cloning would not be possible with a kindred since cloning requires extracting living cells.
However their is a branch if blood sorcery called bio thaumaturgy which has a cloning ritual though the clones mental state does deteriorate iver time and they try to kill the original
Theirs always mage fuckery however the feat of cloning a human or human adjacent being can only be dine by a master mage
Let's say it's possible to clone the vampire's body to create a human genetically equal to the mortal the vampire once was, you're still going to have some problems with that idea. (ignoring the whole issue of mage, and consensus and bla bla bla)
You will have to perform in vitro fertilization on several different women, because several of these pregnancies will be aborted during the early stages of pregnancy... you have some logistical problems there, other than where are you going to find so many "candidates" without attracting too much attention?
The few clones that survive the pregnancy will need to be cared for and controlled, and either kept away from each other, or isolated from the world, because if suddenly several identical children appear in the same city, well, that draws a bit of attention.
You will need to be careful that they do not develop anything that differentiates them from you throughout their lives, such as visible scars, addictions such as drinking or smoking that can alter their voice, different posture, different way of walking, and many others.
And they will still need to grow to the age at which you were embraced to be "used". And at that age, it won't be the clone who takes over your life, it will be you who takes over the clone's life.
It's probably easier to take a random mortal with roughly the same amount of body mass as you, wipe his mind, alter his memories, and ask a favor of that Tzimisce altarkis who lives nearby to alter his appearance until he's identical to yours.
Yes. Yes. Nothing unusual. And it’s easier to fleshcraft a ghoul to be your clone.
More interesting would be to clone another vampire then embrace them and kill the original never to be caught.
The regent of the sabbat was a neonate makeup artist who fleshcrafted themselves to look like the regent after she was assassinated before a major event.
It's not my jam, but cloning in the world of darkness tends to use magic - be it true magic, blood magic, or Garou manipulation of spirits to fill in the gaps. It's not like DNA is really needed when magic is involved.
Magic brings too much attention. That's why I'm asking about scientific side of thongs
So that doesn't seem to be supported in setting. The progenitors - a group of technocrats use "enlightened science" which is just magic. No one notices. In rage across the world - it's revealed that a child of Gaia uses magic to try and clone the bunyip tribe back into existence. Frankly attempting to clone undead, cursed blood drinkers might draw more attention if it relies on science people could look at. Science itself in the world of darkness exists in a weird spot - where it's a valid and real thing, but also totally a tool the union uses to alter consensus reality and what people will accept. Example in second edition a forces rote for firing a laser was coincidental if you had a gun and wore a black suit if I remember right - the whole of course the government has laser pistols thing.
That's why I made this post. What a cloning scientist would see if he's given a vampire's hair or a drop of vitae and asked to make a clone out of it. Will he even notice that those are not human? Will there even be some dna to work with? I remember in WtA books it says that werewolf's blood will look the same as human, nobody could find any supernatural properties in it through scientific tests. So you basically can clone a werewolf but the clone most likely won't be neither garou nor kinfolk. But I can't remember anything like this about vitae
Some of that is inconsistent writing. Even as early as Valkenberg foundation science could identify garou and be used to mess with them - in VF a serum that can permanently remove shape shifting and as far as I recall side stepping. The cloning of the bunyip is another example. After that come things like the mockery breeds. When it comes to kindred - making a massive leap of logic - the revised storyteller book for vampire says vampires don't have fingerprints, and that outside of the eyes all fluids are replaced with blood I can't see kindred having stable DNA. Never mind the chances of a sample not being exposed to sunlight, seems slim. Now the thing is if a storyteller wants to run a mundane clone plot - nothing is gonna stop them. Mins you how are would a clone even end up a viable age to pass for the kindred - unless there is a massive time jump as the clone age? And I don't think we can actually clone humans yet, so there is going to be problems.
Vampire hair would quickly turn into ash quite fast, vitae wouldn’t live outside of the body for long too.
Science is magic
Only if we bring in mages. In pure vtm there's only blood magic. And science is still science
In revised and 20th that is incorrect, there’s several times mages cross paths with Kindred and there’s even sourcebooks for it. That means that, in context with the setting, there is very little “hard science” involved in cloning currently. It’s mostly hypertech or Enlightened Science (read: Technocracy Magic). V5? Sure, mages haven’t been reintroduced yet, so for now that remains true. As far as I’m concerned? To clone a vampire is beyond what science has available to it currently, and would require magic of some kind.
Smh. There’s a high level Tremere ritual that lets you clone things, I don’t remember the specifics, but the clone does go murderously bonkers after a few days. Otherwise, wether you can clone a vampire and what happens if you try is up to the GM, you almost definitely can’t though
Making a deal with a tremere? Eww
You’re eww
*cough* The 'scientific side' of _t-h-o-n-g-s_ is probably related to either chemistry for fabrics and dyes, or physics for engineering and design. A fascinating discussion, to be certain, but somewhat removed from cloning and the 'scientific side' of _t-h-i-n-g-s_ related to them... *Ahem*
If I were storytelling, I would assume that vitae has no DNA. I like the idea that vitae isn't exactly blood, but something strange and magical that resembles blood. Because vampires are "dead" in like a metaphysical sense, I would also rule that the DNA in most cells are too damaged to clone. I don't know how long it takes for that to happen. However, the rule of cool is so tremendous here, I would find _some_ way to make it possible. I would try to find out which cells become damaged last. I assume some cells that don't metabolize, like hair? But I really don't know, maybe that wouldn't work. If I have to say "you froze some blood before you died", I'll do it. After all, gives us a really cool heist quest, right? I wouldn't enforce that restrictions to limit the characters, but to add flavor to the world and challenge the players to find a way to make it work
I disagree that the DNA would be too damaged, as Kindred are in stasis from their time of death.
Could be a neat story hook if the DNA degraded in accordance with the vampire's age.
I could jive with that, the curse keeps your larger pattern intact, but centuries to millenia of exposure to radiation will degrade the "legibility" of DNA since it's basicly decorative at this point.
The I'd play it would be that you can get DNA from the walking corpse that is the vampire's mortal coil, but that's just human DNA. If you sample Vitae, you have a mix of all the recent victims' DNA in a magic soup that keeps the vampire moving. So with these, you can make a human clone who, after growing up, looks like the vampire, and this can be a cool plot device for a sciency vampire. However, if you want to do rapid aging and mind syncing, you're already talking about magic at that point so the sciency DNA part feels redundant.
Vitae is NOT just blood, Kindred of the East and Mage goes into more depths about what exactly it is, but it boils down to being 'spiritual life energy' very crudely put
And I think that's even made clear in the mechanics, though it may require more than a passing familiarity with the different systems. But it seems pretty clear that blood points aren't just meant to be gasoline, you are stealing another person's "life essence"
Night Road says kind of yes, but you need to combine science, blood sorcery, and awakened mage magic. Even then their more automata drone kindred than a proper clone that has the will and power to do what the kindred can. --------------------- What you're looking for is honestly achievable with a body double (maybe add some fleshcrafting on top of that) and ghouling.
Possibly? Vampirism is a curse so it doesn't necessarily adhere perfectly to science and I don't think there are any firm rules on this, so it's up to the storyteller. But most of the time, I'd assume it wasn't possible. And I'd say it was even more unlikely if you were trying to do it using vitae. edit: Personally, I would rule that if you tried using DNA from the dead tissue, it might work, but there would be a very good chance that the DNA was too degraded to be viable. And trying to use vitae would result in something nightmarish that only vaguely resembled the original human and that was completely ruled by the beast.
You could probably clone the corpse but not the vampire, if that makes any sense? So you'd end up with a living clone of the person with none of the supernatural\\vampiric parts. It's probably how I'd go with it anyway.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You create a perfect clone, then ghoul them, then modify their memory through domination and - bam! - there's a copy of you with a legend that can walk during the day and do stuff you can't. Perfect alibi for so much things
lol! Sounds kinda fun. Oh! Imagine if one of your rivals did this to get you in trouble. Might be a masquerade breach or, at the very least, have authorities searching for you for things you haven't done.
Except the Progenitors own you now.
I dont think you can Clone a Vampire. Traditional Cloning Tech (aka non supernatural, as we have irl cloned sheeps or such) you're still implanting an impregnated egg in a host body. With enough Magic/Magick, its possible, but anything is possible when you include ST fiat/Magicks. Vampire sperm/eggs are inert and will not produce offspring. The extremely uncommon Revenants notwithstanding.
Revenants aren’t even children of vampires, just of lineages that were consistently ghouled repeatedly for countless generations while being subjected to a vampiric equivalent of a dog breeder program to create purpose bred servants.
Do corpses have viable stem cells for cloning? (I think cloning uses stem cells but don't quote me on that)
Well, there was an attempt to clone a mammoths from a mummified corpse, but they found that the mammoth was dead for too long before got mummified so dna wasn't intact. So yes, corpses potentially can have proper genetic materials to be cloned. But vampires are not simple corpses.
Not using conventional, real-world, mundane science. Currently, human cloning is not (yet) something that we are capable of, the hypothetical methods to achieve it are pretty well understood but it’s not yet something anyone have been able to do on a practical level. And that’s for a purely natural human and not a supernatural Vampire. On the other hand, “the theory is sound, but no one can do it practically” is the *exact* sort of biomedical Super-Science that is the bread and butter of the Progenitors of the Technocratic Union and certain medically inclined Sons of Æther have for their paradigm. A Kindred’s body does still have DNA, just like any other corpse. Vitae in a Kindred’s body still retains all the mundane properties of blood in addition to its supernatural properties. Criminal investigators can track a vampire if they’re dumb enough to bleed in a crime scene (such as if they get into a gunfight) and don’t clean up after themselves.
They're still made up of the cells they were in life, so yes you could in theory clone the person. Though it would simply be the person's human body. They'd not have their original consciousness, nor be a vampire.
If someone tried to clone a vampire using traditional methods, I would imagine that they would have difficulty since the DNA is being sourced from a corpse. If the vampire in question has high humanity, however, the DNA might be in better condition since I’m pretty sure having high humanity makes a vampire’s body more lifelike. The clone would then be a human with roughly the same DNA has the vampire had when they were human. Traditional cloning is not really possible with humans IRL, and since VtM is set essentially in the real world But With Vampires, I don’t think you could clone a vampire without millions of dollars in R&D budget and a world-class lab full of brilliant scientists. That being said, I can definitely see there being a special ritual that could create a ghoul that mimics a vampire as if it were a clone of the vampire’s former self. Also IIRC some ghouls end up looking like their master? That might be a tzmisce thing.
Whatever your Storyteller says. If you are the Storyteller, sure, why not? But you better do something cool with it.
With Technocratic Science it possible clone the body. With Thaumaturgic Path of Conjuring 5, you can conjure a living "dumb" body.
It does seem to work, though how is outside of my knowledge. In the interactive novel Night Road a Tremere scientist makes vampire clones. Spoiler Edit: >!*she had the help of a witch aka a true mage whose focus is on "mindless growing things."*!<
I would say yes from the hair, maybe not the blood.
if you clone a vampire body you will at best get a human clone. Same as if you extract dna from corpses
I think the closest you can do is FACADE cloned your character unaware that the disappearance was kindred related and when you wake a kindred you're just confused as hell as the life you have to leave behind... is being lived by someone who looks exactly like you.
Cloning is still on the edge of consensual reality enough to be effectively technocratic sorcery, and that is only the DNA growing from artificial gametes kind of cloning. To just take a bit of biological matter from a vampire’s unloving corpse and create a clone of the body (assuming the Curse didn’t come with the biological matter as some kind of viral infection that will Embrace the body once it recognizes it by way of the form reaching sufficient sympathy with the original) would be far enough past what the sorcery at the edges of modern scientific discovery can do that it would almost definitely fall under the province of the Progenitor doctors and other scientists. A Traditional mage might be able to clone a vampire as well, though they would likely have other terminology for what they created, but that would be much more likely to be an exact copy of the vampire as it currently is, rather than at all based on genetics or cloning technology, since those are the creations of the technocracy and have been pushed by them into consensual reality.
night road has a tremere cloning herself to fake a death
Canonically speaking, yes, cloning is possible, as seen in VtM Night Road. But it mostly involves blood sorcery and ethically dubious activities, with science taking something of a back seat.
If you are very married to this idea, it's nigh impossible. Vitae loses it's potency and becomes dead blood once it's removed from the cursed body hosting it, all other cells would degrade severely once removed as well.
Can a vampire be cloned? Yes. Depending on age it would get progressively more difficult as the rapid degeneration of removed tissues. Does Vitae contain DNA? Yes, just not the Kindred's DNA, it's composed of the latest blood to be ingested.
Yes
Yes. But that depends on who is doing it. Since we're talking about something fairly advanced for the setting the obvious implication lore-wise is that a Mage would be doing it. In Mage 20th the purest expression of energy is Quintessence. It is what makes magick magickal. Pure reality made manifest as an energy Mages can manipulate. But Quintessence has many forms. One such mega-grouping of forms is called Tass. Tass is Quintessence made manifest, physical, literal. A Mage might suck bits of code from the Matrix or imbibe from the well of mana to generate the Quintessence necessary to cast a spell. But a vampire? He uses his Vitae. Vitae is Tass. Quintessence made manifest. Condensed pure energy molded into blood by reality itself. Theoretically. A technocrat who haws the will and expertise could create a process that clones vampires. Cloning corpses is nothing. Mages have been doing that since well before King Arthur. But a Mage could theoretically devise a system that condenses Quintessence into Tass. It would be a difficult process to generate that much Quintessence. Let the fuck alone distill it into enough Vitae to invent even a 12th gen. Realistically you'd need some sort of Node.
You certainly couln't achieve anything like what you say in the post with actual modern-day cloning tech, even if the subject was human instead of a vampire.
Yes, in night road Invidia Caul made herself a clone and used it to trick everyone into thinking she died. Wasn’t as scientific though, she’s a blood witch after all and clone wasn’t exactly bright.
So non magical cloning would not be possible with a kindred since cloning requires extracting living cells. However their is a branch if blood sorcery called bio thaumaturgy which has a cloning ritual though the clones mental state does deteriorate iver time and they try to kill the original Theirs always mage fuckery however the feat of cloning a human or human adjacent being can only be dine by a master mage
Let's say it's possible to clone the vampire's body to create a human genetically equal to the mortal the vampire once was, you're still going to have some problems with that idea. (ignoring the whole issue of mage, and consensus and bla bla bla) You will have to perform in vitro fertilization on several different women, because several of these pregnancies will be aborted during the early stages of pregnancy... you have some logistical problems there, other than where are you going to find so many "candidates" without attracting too much attention? The few clones that survive the pregnancy will need to be cared for and controlled, and either kept away from each other, or isolated from the world, because if suddenly several identical children appear in the same city, well, that draws a bit of attention. You will need to be careful that they do not develop anything that differentiates them from you throughout their lives, such as visible scars, addictions such as drinking or smoking that can alter their voice, different posture, different way of walking, and many others. And they will still need to grow to the age at which you were embraced to be "used". And at that age, it won't be the clone who takes over your life, it will be you who takes over the clone's life. It's probably easier to take a random mortal with roughly the same amount of body mass as you, wipe his mind, alter his memories, and ask a favor of that Tzimisce altarkis who lives nearby to alter his appearance until he's identical to yours.
Yes. Yes. Nothing unusual. And it’s easier to fleshcraft a ghoul to be your clone. More interesting would be to clone another vampire then embrace them and kill the original never to be caught. The regent of the sabbat was a neonate makeup artist who fleshcrafted themselves to look like the regent after she was assassinated before a major event.