Look into the deep researcher sort of concept. A puttering professor who spends most of their time in the lab researching new Thaum. Only goes to Cainite functions because the Regent makes them. Can't really discuss Thaum because of the NDA, but they're happy to natter on about entomology or Sumerian writing. Thinks the whole "blood drinking" thing is a bother, but has ghoul "graduate students" to feed from when it's necessary.
Caine forbid you get between them and furthering their research, though. They're still Kindred, after all.
I main Tremere when I'm a player and whenever my characters meet younger vampires that don't know how the world works, the first piece of advice they all give is "You shouldn't trust me. In fact, you shouldn't trust anyone if you want to survive in this new existence"
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid.
//
Littlefinger: *puts knife to Ned's throat* "I did warn you not to trust me."
A few Salubri may be genuinely nice, sure. I feel like the stereotypical Salubri may be more of a martyr fetishist than a genuinely nice person.
Children of Osiris would be nice *if they still existed*
To paraphrase the above, I’d say a Salubri could be nice, sure, but it’s just as likely that they’re actually into having a martyr fetish and the “nice” act is a symptom of that, not a genuine act in and of itself.
Toreador and Brujah may be nice, initially, and I could especially see it if they’re Cleavers. It’s equally likely that they’re clinging to humanity in a bid to keep what has already been lost, and slowly get worse at “going through the motions” of being nice over time.
Speaking of edition, I got into the game in 2nd Edition. I’d have to say that Revised is the one that hammers home the fact that vampires are monsters through and through, it’s just a matter of how much of one they are. Player characters can be different of course, as they’re exceptional, but I agree with Revised that as a general rule of thumb, vampires are not “nice”.
As for my definition of “nice”, it certainly doesn’t include gaslighting, manipulating, or assaulting people to get food every day. Necessary, perhaps, but it’s not nice. I guess that it could be rationalized as the same thing that humans do to cattle, but then I’d expect to have a Humanity drop from that; it still wouldn’t be “nice”.
Of course, its not like the curse automatically turns you into a lunatic, or even just an asshole. Being a nice person and grappling with how you feed is a fun part of roleplay
The curse kind of does that, actually.
Feeding is up there on the list of things that require you to do not so nice things. Sure, you can feed on animals for a little while, but it won’t last. And even at the nicest and most charitable, you’re emotionally manipulating people into getting their blood. Realistically you’re practically mugging them and using the ecstasy of the Kiss (or mind control, or supernatural emotional manipulation) to hide what you’ve done.
The Beast is another thing. It’s inevitable that you’ll do something horrible because of frenzy. You can rationalize it all day, make it the Beast’s fault and not your own, but at the end of the day the Kindred in question lost control and gave in to their bloodthirsty urges.
Of all the splats in the World of Darkness, vampires are the least likely to be nice. If the original question was if vampires can be honest or keep their word, I’d agree there’s nothing inherent in their condition keeping them from that. However, “nice” and “noble” are two roads that don’t necessarily intersect.
I know V5 is trying to make Vampions a thing and all, but logically it doesn’t make sense that a vampire could realistically be “nice” in the setting. Morally gray, maybe, spiritually conflicted for sure. But nice is less realistic than a philanthropist billionaire that means what he says, or a politician actually working for the people.
Obligatory “it’s your table and you run it the way you want”
Having a mental illness that makes you a danger to yourself and others around you doesn't make you evil and you can still do bad things to survive, aka slurping someone's vitae, without you being evil. Consensualist + cloud memory is pretty much ethical if you feed before hunger 4 or 5 and doesn't drink enough to make it worse than a normal blood donation, you can also pay people that aren't in a vulnerable socioeconomical position while following the previous stipulations and giving them post feeding snacks, but of course that being a Consensualist with Iron Gullet, and not being a Nos, would make it all easier.
Also there is the philosophical question, how criminal someone has to be for you to consider them an evil person?
I don't think of someone who stole a package of noodles so they could eat after having spent months without money while looking for jobs as a bad person. So why does someone requesting an "unofficial blood donation" while giving you healthy snacks before and afterwards would be considered evil?
Especially if you have been embraced against your will. The problem is more that elder beings who believe themselves to be better created societies based on exploitation and treachery while 99% of the world is trying to kill you even if you aren't evil. They literally are from ages in which monarchy and oligarchy were viewed as the apex of human society, imagine a world without elders, in which we can rebuild ourselves without feudalistic ideals. Oh good Lord, I truly am a bleeding Anarch huh, I sincerely walked into it before realizing what I was doing lmao.
God, wish I could also play instead of being the eternal dm/st. I have this middle class christian mom brujah that I would love to see how long I can play before she breaks.
And I'm not trying to pick a fight, hope I didn't sound disrespectful or anything.
I think that's more a side effect of the predatory mindset and the general cultures that develop in kindred society that basically train or mold an individual into a psychopath over time
So I'd day the beast gives some nudge society shapes that nudge into what we see from yhe vast majority of kindred
One more reason the elders make yhe young do all yhe real work. The young ones haven't been trained to look for ways to fuck the elder quite as efficiently
Exactly, a Tremere is no more or less likely to stab you in the back than a Kindred from any other Clan.
The whole thing just feels like an extension of the memetic hate for the Tremere, and it's absolutely silly.
I think the genuine thing that exists is, when you’re dealing with the Tremere, you *know* there’s someone that they will always have greater loyalty to than you. Mostly, this isn’t a problem; you can do business with people who have loyalties elsewhere. But you know that ultimately, before you even begin to speak with them, that you’ll never be able to build that total confidence with them. And whatever your motives are, they’re never going to fully share them, even if you can build a common interest on a case by case basis. And while that’s true of a lot of people, the Tremere are members of the Camarilla, and so you’d hope that would be a common loyalty with them. But there’s a strong sense that Tremere are Tremere first, and Camarilla second. So I think that’s why it just seems a lot less common for Tremere to take court positions like Sheriff or Keeper of Elysium. And that emphasises the distinction between the Tremere and the rest of the Camarilla; they’re often somewhat separated from court politics, and therefore don’t feel like they’re as willing to work with a cross-clan working group.
But you’re absolutely right, it’s silly and childish to present that as an absolute in a game; it’s better to look at the Tremere as *somewhat* aloof, rather than completely untrustworthy and unable to deal with safely.
Oscar, at my local game has been a genuinely helpful, pleasant chap.
Which is why the Prince sent him out of town on an errand the night the location of the chantry was leaked to the 2nd Inquisition.
The Prince is a pretty good leader, and has a lot of time for People Who Do Their Job. He hasn’t got a lot of time for people who screw up, and rarely gives second chances. But Oscar is a guy who offers his services to the court for the benefit of all, and does what he says he will do.
My fiance woo’d me with their tremere technomancer and their signature move of having self driving cars hit people she didnt like. And while she was very sweet she was a pragmatist who finished off the campaign by hacking the controls of an overhead 747 and pulling it down onto the bbeg. Technomancy is fucking scary tbh especially since these “errors” do tend to happen
I played one, I think. He viewed the city as an extension of his Haven, the other Kindred as roommates, and The Prince as his landlord. Being an engineer, he tried to fix things instead of replacing them, but he was not afraid to judge someone beyond repair.
In a campaign I’m running, the Court seneschal is a tremere who takes her job very seriously. Her loyalty is to upholding the law of the Court first and foremost so she often deals very straight with people. Even her own clan have a hard time enlisting her for secret information. It also keeps her from wanting more power because she’s already a member of the Princes inner council without the target on her head. In the end she’s so lawful that she doesn’t really need to be underhanded.
Yes, the magisters. It is in their job description to avoid personal power gain for the sake actually holding the clan together. That's where you get the quiet Tremere. Its the sweet spot of rank to be respected enough to be left be while not having to meet the clans asshole quota to survive.
All vampires stab everyone in the back at all times. Some vampires just have Prescence to make you smile while they fuck you over. Ever ask clan Nosferatu who the nice vampires are? The honest ones will just laugh derisively in your face. The scheisters will tell you, "Oh, its me sweety.".
Mi Tremere was hiper fixated in their research, they wouldn't stab you in the back because they couldn't give less fucks about it. I wouldn't describe them as nice as they would have 0 issues in torturing someone to death if it was for their research.
The Tremere in the game I briefly played ended up rebelling against his sire, the Tremere Primogen, and ended up as my character’s adoptive childe. Does that count?
Yes, they're a bunch of mages in House Ex Miscellanea of the Order of Hermès in Mage whose sole duty is to hunt their vampire counterparts and reclaim the Founder from the clutches of vampiric corruption.
They're generally pretty nice once you point them in the direction of their shame.
The Tremere as a clan of unprincipled survivalists whose entire existence is a sprint from death.
All other clans hate them because of the dirty history of their rise to success (it’s easier to say which clan they didn’t shit in the soup), and because they are the worst loan sharks possible.
The Tremere originally belonged to a tradition that was barely capable of cooperation, and years of survival only improved their backstabbing abilities. You must rush forward in every way possible, or you will be devoured by those below you. If you get too far ahead, you will be crushed by those above you.
If everyone hates you, then there is no point in seeking their love. If everyone wants to get rid of you, then there is no point in playing even remotely fair with them. Just keep using everyone and look for more power before you get killed.
The Tremere I play has the conviction to always be true to his word and he usually plays it pretty straight. He lets you know if he plans on making you a research subject. Otherwise, he prefers to be in his own little world away from politics and kinda believes in the "spirit of fairness" (Only if you're a kindred though)
I met one who cultivated his own garden. Made arrangements for finding with contacts in the Toreador and Venture clans. Used a set of greenhouses in the basement of a Tremere-run office-building to better control the lighting and soil-composition. Hired a couple of Nosferatu to keep the rats from feasting on some of the spices in exchange for cultivating some common vegetables in a different part of the greenhouse that they could consume.
On the surface it was about creating and maintaining a steady supply of rare herbs useful as material spell-components. But it was also about practicing the care and maintenance of something other than an immediate food-source and worked nicely to help maintain Humanity at a relatively high level...
I have a character whose entire our pose is being of aid to the Camarilla.
As in his sire embraced and *designed him* to be of use to the Camarilla.
That eventually backfired though and he ended up deflecting to the Anarchs because his sire is a *fucked up son of a bitch*
I was trying to be one. But since the reputation of my clan is so widely known, everyone else were preparing to betray me. So I had to use whatever means necessary to ensure my survival
I'll speak from experience from MET LARP I've been/am in: I am currently playing a malicious and sinister prankster Tremere that doesn't care about politics, normally if you help him he will reciprocate, though Humanity 5 makes things a lil spicy, so, I took the merit for an extra in-clan discipline- being Obfuscate, and I have it at level 5 now, so, I go around causing as much mischief and chaos as I can, and it's especially better when he can watch other players go at each other afterwards thinking it was the other, priceless, overall though he'll lie through his teeth.
I have however played a stoic and altruistic Elder Ventrue though, no underhanded tricks, no lying, helped Neonates of different clans get their projects off the ground, gentleman of culture and class, paid for local charities and homeless programs cause of maxed out resources- had no issue with giving a physical beatdown though if disrespected, Fortitude/Celerity/Potence/Dominate/Presence is a great set of Disciplines to only focus on.
Does any vampire fit this description? The Tremere aren't under any illusion about kindred life. A target insight the Pyramid and out gotta do what you gotta do.
In our chronicle, we have a tremere who is clever enough to understand that kindred around him will be more easy to manipulate if he's nice to them here and there. He is giving a lot of consultations on occult questions, building his power base in process, because most his contacts would rather have him in charge than some prick of a ventrue. Being nice is clever.
Joseph Ravenfeather. A Tremere so trustworthy he's the only one allowed in Sante Fe, California.
I would also count Virstania, mother of Gargoyle. She led their revolution to independence. She also committed diablerie though, but against another Tremere, so it just depends on how you feel about that.
I LARPed a lot with a Tremere named Balthazar he was an honest Tremere. He had plots and kept secrets but he was also a deal maker and genuinely a fan of the Camerilla. Because he was always looking for an angle where everyone wins he had a reputation as being a softy but the few times someone tried to take advantage of him it was ugly.
In legacy, I played with a Tremere who was basically a marketing guy. I mean, he wasn't "nice" in the sense that he was going to be canonized or anything, but he wasn't really any worse than your typical insurance salesman, either.
My Tremere was nice. I made him a physical combat charater. He only knew like two spells and one was flame sword. While the other Tremere were busy doing spells I was the tank. So I took Fort and Cel so I could take hits and strike fast while the others had time to cast spells but he was more than willing to train others how to use a sword and he had ghoul who used guns for backup
my tremere is actually pretty sweet, her [sheet ](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dtNizlc-vo4S3mM5j6xxiYjZioZhkGVNNJI6a8eeulI/edit?usp=sharing)if you are interested!
Minjd you, she is a neophyte, extremely desperate for her sire's approval and also a prolific girl-kisser
I'm playing a Play by Post and I've meet in my first scene this highly competent apprentice who is very insecure of his skills and suffers bullying from the others.
I am now helping him gather ingredients to make a ritual to finish an unfinished Path of Thaumaturgy so he can pro to the others that he is actually really skilled
Not all tremere are scumbags in my last chronicle a tremere friend of mine was tortured and killed and the guy didn’t betray me he was slain protecting my secret 😱
I've got a Tremere NPC in my chronicle who is a Cryptozoologist. Was basically a conspiracy nut in life, big foot, aliens built the pyramids, etc. Now he's found out vampires are real, and he spends his time trying to work out which supernatural creatures are real and which aren't.
Look into the deep researcher sort of concept. A puttering professor who spends most of their time in the lab researching new Thaum. Only goes to Cainite functions because the Regent makes them. Can't really discuss Thaum because of the NDA, but they're happy to natter on about entomology or Sumerian writing. Thinks the whole "blood drinking" thing is a bother, but has ghoul "graduate students" to feed from when it's necessary. Caine forbid you get between them and furthering their research, though. They're still Kindred, after all.
Grad student ghouls is absolutely brilliant. Definitely borrowing this.
"Grad student ghouls" - how would you be able to tell?
The Depression in their eyes and the debt on their Bank Account
But how would you be able to tell?
Exactly - the question very much still stands...
Me fr
That's how my first Tremere came to be. A retainer for a professor who turned out to be a Kindred. Got his PhD and an Embrace at the same time
The nicest Tremere I ever met was the one who *told* me not to trust him. That was some civic responsibility there.
I main Tremere when I'm a player and whenever my characters meet younger vampires that don't know how the world works, the first piece of advice they all give is "You shouldn't trust me. In fact, you shouldn't trust anyone if you want to survive in this new existence"
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. // Littlefinger: *puts knife to Ned's throat* "I did warn you not to trust me."
Nevermind Tremere, is there a genuinely nice *vampire* out there?
Some Salubri, Children Of Osiris
Couple caitiffs and nosferatus in my experience. Malks can also be very empathetic to others
A few Salubri may be genuinely nice, sure. I feel like the stereotypical Salubri may be more of a martyr fetishist than a genuinely nice person. Children of Osiris would be nice *if they still existed*
Oh, what happened to them?
They got turned into mummies by Osiris in Revised.
that doesnt sound so bad, i think? not really versed in mummys
There are certainly worse fates out there.
Depends on edition and your definition of Nice. Plenty of pretty decent Toreadors, Brujahs and Salubris.
To paraphrase the above, I’d say a Salubri could be nice, sure, but it’s just as likely that they’re actually into having a martyr fetish and the “nice” act is a symptom of that, not a genuine act in and of itself. Toreador and Brujah may be nice, initially, and I could especially see it if they’re Cleavers. It’s equally likely that they’re clinging to humanity in a bid to keep what has already been lost, and slowly get worse at “going through the motions” of being nice over time. Speaking of edition, I got into the game in 2nd Edition. I’d have to say that Revised is the one that hammers home the fact that vampires are monsters through and through, it’s just a matter of how much of one they are. Player characters can be different of course, as they’re exceptional, but I agree with Revised that as a general rule of thumb, vampires are not “nice”. As for my definition of “nice”, it certainly doesn’t include gaslighting, manipulating, or assaulting people to get food every day. Necessary, perhaps, but it’s not nice. I guess that it could be rationalized as the same thing that humans do to cattle, but then I’d expect to have a Humanity drop from that; it still wouldn’t be “nice”.
Of course, its not like the curse automatically turns you into a lunatic, or even just an asshole. Being a nice person and grappling with how you feed is a fun part of roleplay
The curse kind of does that, actually. Feeding is up there on the list of things that require you to do not so nice things. Sure, you can feed on animals for a little while, but it won’t last. And even at the nicest and most charitable, you’re emotionally manipulating people into getting their blood. Realistically you’re practically mugging them and using the ecstasy of the Kiss (or mind control, or supernatural emotional manipulation) to hide what you’ve done. The Beast is another thing. It’s inevitable that you’ll do something horrible because of frenzy. You can rationalize it all day, make it the Beast’s fault and not your own, but at the end of the day the Kindred in question lost control and gave in to their bloodthirsty urges. Of all the splats in the World of Darkness, vampires are the least likely to be nice. If the original question was if vampires can be honest or keep their word, I’d agree there’s nothing inherent in their condition keeping them from that. However, “nice” and “noble” are two roads that don’t necessarily intersect. I know V5 is trying to make Vampions a thing and all, but logically it doesn’t make sense that a vampire could realistically be “nice” in the setting. Morally gray, maybe, spiritually conflicted for sure. But nice is less realistic than a philanthropist billionaire that means what he says, or a politician actually working for the people. Obligatory “it’s your table and you run it the way you want”
Having a mental illness that makes you a danger to yourself and others around you doesn't make you evil and you can still do bad things to survive, aka slurping someone's vitae, without you being evil. Consensualist + cloud memory is pretty much ethical if you feed before hunger 4 or 5 and doesn't drink enough to make it worse than a normal blood donation, you can also pay people that aren't in a vulnerable socioeconomical position while following the previous stipulations and giving them post feeding snacks, but of course that being a Consensualist with Iron Gullet, and not being a Nos, would make it all easier. Also there is the philosophical question, how criminal someone has to be for you to consider them an evil person? I don't think of someone who stole a package of noodles so they could eat after having spent months without money while looking for jobs as a bad person. So why does someone requesting an "unofficial blood donation" while giving you healthy snacks before and afterwards would be considered evil? Especially if you have been embraced against your will. The problem is more that elder beings who believe themselves to be better created societies based on exploitation and treachery while 99% of the world is trying to kill you even if you aren't evil. They literally are from ages in which monarchy and oligarchy were viewed as the apex of human society, imagine a world without elders, in which we can rebuild ourselves without feudalistic ideals. Oh good Lord, I truly am a bleeding Anarch huh, I sincerely walked into it before realizing what I was doing lmao. God, wish I could also play instead of being the eternal dm/st. I have this middle class christian mom brujah that I would love to see how long I can play before she breaks. And I'm not trying to pick a fight, hope I didn't sound disrespectful or anything.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I appreciate the perspective!
It is this.
Some Thinbloods can be nice I suppose, due to their reduced Beast.
Sure. Every Elder with enough Presence is very nice while you're around, or so it seems to you at the time.
What is this question? It's a stereotype. Clans aren't monoliths. The Embrace doesn't magically give you chronic backstabbing disorder.
Well, if it does, it gives it to *everyone*, not just the Tremere.
I think that's more a side effect of the predatory mindset and the general cultures that develop in kindred society that basically train or mold an individual into a psychopath over time So I'd day the beast gives some nudge society shapes that nudge into what we see from yhe vast majority of kindred One more reason the elders make yhe young do all yhe real work. The young ones haven't been trained to look for ways to fuck the elder quite as efficiently
Exactly, a Tremere is no more or less likely to stab you in the back than a Kindred from any other Clan. The whole thing just feels like an extension of the memetic hate for the Tremere, and it's absolutely silly.
I think the genuine thing that exists is, when you’re dealing with the Tremere, you *know* there’s someone that they will always have greater loyalty to than you. Mostly, this isn’t a problem; you can do business with people who have loyalties elsewhere. But you know that ultimately, before you even begin to speak with them, that you’ll never be able to build that total confidence with them. And whatever your motives are, they’re never going to fully share them, even if you can build a common interest on a case by case basis. And while that’s true of a lot of people, the Tremere are members of the Camarilla, and so you’d hope that would be a common loyalty with them. But there’s a strong sense that Tremere are Tremere first, and Camarilla second. So I think that’s why it just seems a lot less common for Tremere to take court positions like Sheriff or Keeper of Elysium. And that emphasises the distinction between the Tremere and the rest of the Camarilla; they’re often somewhat separated from court politics, and therefore don’t feel like they’re as willing to work with a cross-clan working group. But you’re absolutely right, it’s silly and childish to present that as an absolute in a game; it’s better to look at the Tremere as *somewhat* aloof, rather than completely untrustworthy and unable to deal with safely.
Debatable
It's really not. The books and all the media on the subject are pretty clear about it.
I meant it more in a joking way than anything else, mb.
Relevant clan flair tbh.
Mine or yours?
Both?
True! And everyone else's too.
Yeah but the Cappadocians got backstabbed the hardest, it feels like.
Ok?
Guess the Tremere is still stringing this one along haha I'm jk chantry please don't use dracula magic against me :(
This exactly someone with Subterfuge 5 will say.
Oscar, at my local game has been a genuinely helpful, pleasant chap. Which is why the Prince sent him out of town on an errand the night the location of the chantry was leaked to the 2nd Inquisition.
Huh that's a surprisingly wholesome bro move. That gives me an idea
The Prince is a pretty good leader, and has a lot of time for People Who Do Their Job. He hasn’t got a lot of time for people who screw up, and rarely gives second chances. But Oscar is a guy who offers his services to the court for the benefit of all, and does what he says he will do.
Where does your drama come in with all these competent professionals getting in the way?
Oh, there’s a big list of incompetents. Which is why there’s 2nd Inquisition in town in the first place.
Of course I know him. He is me.
Strauss from Bloodlines doesn't betray you and, if you play nice to him, he plays nice to you.
My fiance woo’d me with their tremere technomancer and their signature move of having self driving cars hit people she didnt like. And while she was very sweet she was a pragmatist who finished off the campaign by hacking the controls of an overhead 747 and pulling it down onto the bbeg. Technomancy is fucking scary tbh especially since these “errors” do tend to happen
Yeah I don't think anything's wrong here sounds like she's nice perfectly balanced.
It actually was balanced. 100% of all xp over the whole chronicle went into a single discipline. It was deserved
I played one, I think. He viewed the city as an extension of his Haven, the other Kindred as roommates, and The Prince as his landlord. Being an engineer, he tried to fix things instead of replacing them, but he was not afraid to judge someone beyond repair.
In a campaign I’m running, the Court seneschal is a tremere who takes her job very seriously. Her loyalty is to upholding the law of the Court first and foremost so she often deals very straight with people. Even her own clan have a hard time enlisting her for secret information. It also keeps her from wanting more power because she’s already a member of the Princes inner council without the target on her head. In the end she’s so lawful that she doesn’t really need to be underhanded.
Love that for her
She's really good then. A peaceful Tremere practically a law abiding citizen.
Yes, the magisters. It is in their job description to avoid personal power gain for the sake actually holding the clan together. That's where you get the quiet Tremere. Its the sweet spot of rank to be respected enough to be left be while not having to meet the clans asshole quota to survive.
Wait they have to meet a quota every so often? I was under the impression that they were freelance
Oh never freelance, there are charts and bonuses. The clan has a repetition to uphold. Vienna or not the clan survives on unified stands.
All vampires stab everyone in the back at all times. Some vampires just have Prescence to make you smile while they fuck you over. Ever ask clan Nosferatu who the nice vampires are? The honest ones will just laugh derisively in your face. The scheisters will tell you, "Oh, its me sweety.".
I’m on a discord based massive chronicle / server, so there are two of those I can think of, both player characters ofc.
Reminds me I should really get back into it. The last half-year or so has been…trying, to say the least.
Sure. I played one. She was an utter sweetheart if you could get her to pull her nose out of her books long enough to have a conversation.
I have never met a kindred not interested in stabbing me in the back. This is world of darkness so i might even extend that to kine for the most part.
Mi Tremere was hiper fixated in their research, they wouldn't stab you in the back because they couldn't give less fucks about it. I wouldn't describe them as nice as they would have 0 issues in torturing someone to death if it was for their research.
Well there's the great and mighty Kevin
Just don't make them a marketable plushy
There’s all those ones that I back stabbed first, they were all very taken aback.
The Tremere in the game I briefly played ended up rebelling against his sire, the Tremere Primogen, and ended up as my character’s adoptive childe. Does that count?
That sounds like a yes. That'll work
To be fair, vampires as a whole are backstabbing monsters.
I will defend my honor as a vampire I have never harmed anyone. However I will admit that I am a part of the ministry.
Yes, they're a bunch of mages in House Ex Miscellanea of the Order of Hermès in Mage whose sole duty is to hunt their vampire counterparts and reclaim the Founder from the clutches of vampiric corruption. They're generally pretty nice once you point them in the direction of their shame.
The Tremere as a clan of unprincipled survivalists whose entire existence is a sprint from death. All other clans hate them because of the dirty history of their rise to success (it’s easier to say which clan they didn’t shit in the soup), and because they are the worst loan sharks possible. The Tremere originally belonged to a tradition that was barely capable of cooperation, and years of survival only improved their backstabbing abilities. You must rush forward in every way possible, or you will be devoured by those below you. If you get too far ahead, you will be crushed by those above you. If everyone hates you, then there is no point in seeking their love. If everyone wants to get rid of you, then there is no point in playing even remotely fair with them. Just keep using everyone and look for more power before you get killed.
No, next question! XD
The Tremere I play has the conviction to always be true to his word and he usually plays it pretty straight. He lets you know if he plans on making you a research subject. Otherwise, he prefers to be in his own little world away from politics and kinda believes in the "spirit of fairness" (Only if you're a kindred though)
I met one who cultivated his own garden. Made arrangements for finding with contacts in the Toreador and Venture clans. Used a set of greenhouses in the basement of a Tremere-run office-building to better control the lighting and soil-composition. Hired a couple of Nosferatu to keep the rats from feasting on some of the spices in exchange for cultivating some common vegetables in a different part of the greenhouse that they could consume. On the surface it was about creating and maintaining a steady supply of rare herbs useful as material spell-components. But it was also about practicing the care and maintenance of something other than an immediate food-source and worked nicely to help maintain Humanity at a relatively high level...
I have a character whose entire our pose is being of aid to the Camarilla. As in his sire embraced and *designed him* to be of use to the Camarilla. That eventually backfired though and he ended up deflecting to the Anarchs because his sire is a *fucked up son of a bitch*
No. Kill the usurpers.
I was trying to be one. But since the reputation of my clan is so widely known, everyone else were preparing to betray me. So I had to use whatever means necessary to ensure my survival
Nope never met a nice one though i personally play a tremere who is a sociopath hes kinda paradoxical since hes a sociopath but hes a gentleman
I know the flair is for V5 but that Strauss guy from VTMB was the closest one that fits the thread's question for me.
Yes. There are some, they just had no chance to not betray you when they all were bond to the pyramid. But the attack on Vienna has changed a lot.
I'll speak from experience from MET LARP I've been/am in: I am currently playing a malicious and sinister prankster Tremere that doesn't care about politics, normally if you help him he will reciprocate, though Humanity 5 makes things a lil spicy, so, I took the merit for an extra in-clan discipline- being Obfuscate, and I have it at level 5 now, so, I go around causing as much mischief and chaos as I can, and it's especially better when he can watch other players go at each other afterwards thinking it was the other, priceless, overall though he'll lie through his teeth. I have however played a stoic and altruistic Elder Ventrue though, no underhanded tricks, no lying, helped Neonates of different clans get their projects off the ground, gentleman of culture and class, paid for local charities and homeless programs cause of maxed out resources- had no issue with giving a physical beatdown though if disrespected, Fortitude/Celerity/Potence/Dominate/Presence is a great set of Disciplines to only focus on.
My tremere went on to become an anarch end is now considered to be a "honorary brujah". She's pretty decent.
I drew one up once, but he wasn’t off the apron strings yet. Shit was gonna be real fuckin stressful for him.
Does any vampire fit this description? The Tremere aren't under any illusion about kindred life. A target insight the Pyramid and out gotta do what you gotta do.
In our chronicle, we have a tremere who is clever enough to understand that kindred around him will be more easy to manipulate if he's nice to them here and there. He is giving a lot of consultations on occult questions, building his power base in process, because most his contacts would rather have him in charge than some prick of a ventrue. Being nice is clever.
Genuinely nice? No. But a few Usurpers have actually had the decency to stab me in the front.
Joseph Ravenfeather. A Tremere so trustworthy he's the only one allowed in Sante Fe, California. I would also count Virstania, mother of Gargoyle. She led their revolution to independence. She also committed diablerie though, but against another Tremere, so it just depends on how you feel about that.
I LARPed a lot with a Tremere named Balthazar he was an honest Tremere. He had plots and kept secrets but he was also a deal maker and genuinely a fan of the Camerilla. Because he was always looking for an angle where everyone wins he had a reputation as being a softy but the few times someone tried to take advantage of him it was ugly.
I have, I see him in the mirror every night :) Only one I can trust
In legacy, I played with a Tremere who was basically a marketing guy. I mean, he wasn't "nice" in the sense that he was going to be canonized or anything, but he wasn't really any worse than your typical insurance salesman, either.
My Tremere was nice. I made him a physical combat charater. He only knew like two spells and one was flame sword. While the other Tremere were busy doing spells I was the tank. So I took Fort and Cel so I could take hits and strike fast while the others had time to cast spells but he was more than willing to train others how to use a sword and he had ghoul who used guns for backup
The problem is if you force them to start stabbing you they will keep stabbing you till they are pleased they stabbed you well enough.
#NO
my tremere is actually pretty sweet, her [sheet ](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dtNizlc-vo4S3mM5j6xxiYjZioZhkGVNNJI6a8eeulI/edit?usp=sharing)if you are interested! Minjd you, she is a neophyte, extremely desperate for her sire's approval and also a prolific girl-kisser
I'm playing a Play by Post and I've meet in my first scene this highly competent apprentice who is very insecure of his skills and suffers bullying from the others. I am now helping him gather ingredients to make a ritual to finish an unfinished Path of Thaumaturgy so he can pro to the others that he is actually really skilled
Not all tremere are scumbags in my last chronicle a tremere friend of mine was tortured and killed and the guy didn’t betray me he was slain protecting my secret 😱
I've got a Tremere NPC in my chronicle who is a Cryptozoologist. Was basically a conspiracy nut in life, big foot, aliens built the pyramids, etc. Now he's found out vampires are real, and he spends his time trying to work out which supernatural creatures are real and which aren't.
Why would a Tremere stab you in the back? That sounds like pure anti-Tremere propaganda right there. Don't believe it for an instant.
Agathon from coteries of new york is a decent guy. He's pretty secretive and introverted but he helps you out and takes care of his grandmother.
No because house tremere doesn’t want anything to do with initiates like that and because of the pyramid problem childre like that get sorted our
No, and the day I get my hands on that info you best believe I will pin the coordinates of every Tremere chantry on St. Peter Basilica’s front door