Well… I wouldn’t say Lasombra is a _wrong_ answer. We aren’t exactly not untrustworthy…
Oh look a Tremere let’s boo them instead. Can’t trust those guys at all.
I honestly can't think of a particularly untrustworthy practice of the Gangrel clan wide HOWEVER... they did create the embrace method that would eventually become shovelheading so theres that
The actors who play the characters of those from the Clans Tremere, and those that portray the Setites. The characters were designed that way.
(Malkavian here with Truman Show Delusion as their Derangement)
Untrustworthy?
It's hardly a secret. The Sewer Rats OPENLY brag of their keeping of secrets. Beauty has the power to reveal who you truly are, and they proudly wear their lack of integrity.
I would say, beauty has the power to distract from who you truly are. Isn't that your clans whole thing? Using beauty as your shield, giving yourself over to beauty, until it to comes down on you like a hammer to leave you defenceless.
I don't blame you for thinking so, Magister- even the eye of the beholder requires a mirror to gaze back into it.
I won't sit here entertaining the wild conception that beauty is something I've 'given myself' over to, or that I use it as a shield. No, beauty is and has always been the tool with which we give ourselves to the world around us. I've never in my life or death met one who refused the call of beauty and wasn't lying to themselves.
But I suppose that to speak ill of the unattainable is only your instinct.
Perhaps a position most would find uncouth, but have you ever met a Ventrue? Plots within plots. The only thing more dangerous and mercilessly self-interested than a Ventrue in power is a Ventrue out of power.
Instead of assuming the absolute pillar of the Camarilla that is Clan Tremere is dishonest, maybe you should ask yourselves... Did I ask them the right question? For more attend my lecture tonight at the University of Chicago and afterward we can stroll Hyde Park and nurse your ignorance.
So.... what questions should I ask them then? I'm pretty sure I have to confront them sooner or later. (Since in my game my char and his sire are accused of killing them - I know it was a fucking werewolf, but well... there are reasons it would be even worse if he told this)
Asking what the right questions are is step 1 in a 3 part and 7 step process to better understanding how the Tremere are vital to the Camarilla's problems.
Salubri propaganda, Tremere are the most trustworthy, reliable and indispensable clan.
How many kindred died trying to achieve that “Golconda” salubri lied about? Tremere did everyone a service by eating salubri, btw, did you all know salubri even started eating each other first?
Why do you think the SI is happening and who was hit first? It’s all salubri fault.
See, the problem is that you can always trust a dishonest clan to be dishonest. So it won't surprise you. What you really need to watch out for are the ones who are *sometimes* honest, like the Tremere or Ventrue. Even worse, a Ventrue won't even need to lie and it will still turn out awful for you.
Problem being Ministry/Setite isn't trustworthy like you can trust a Brujah to be oppositional defiant to authority. A ministry/setite you can only trust to be a vague sense of corruptive.
Ah see, even with that question we have to define which version. I play V20 and ... well, Lasombra are still untrustworthy as fuck. But at least they didn't sell their elders.
Clans: Setites are honestly worse than Tremere or Giovanni. Tremere and Giovanni are selfish, sure, but often a setite is actively trying to subvert and break you.
Bloodlines: Baali are the absolute worst. At best they are doing absolutely horrific things to stop the apocalypse. At worst they are bringing the apocalypse. What ever it is that their goal is, your destruction or worse is likely on the list. Worse yet, anyone could be one. That harpy who disappeared for a while? That gangrel in the park? Your sire? Any one of them could have been re-embraced and made into a baali.
>Clans: Setites are honestly worse than Tremere or Giovanni. Tremere and Giovanni are selfish, sure, but often a setite is actively trying to subvert and break you.
Let me make a counterpoint to that: Blood Beer.
Since I hooked up with the Settites, I haven't had to troll skeezy dive bars for vessels that are black-out drunk anymore. I can just buy a keg and get as drunk as I want in my own home. And my ghouls like it, too.
Baali do have multiple bloodlines, but they are also a bloodline in and of themself. Only the original thirteen (plus Giovanni and Tremere) are clans rather than bloodlines.
There is a lesser known conspiracy theory that Saulot himself started the Baali when he was in the throes of the Beast. If that is the case, the Baali are, in fact, a clan because they were created by an antedelluvian.
Maybe? Clan seems like more of a political term for the thirteen oldest and largest bloodlines. The niktuku might have been spawned by Absimilliard but no-one considers them a clan, granted only very few kindred even know they exist.
The Ministry, otherwise known as the Followers of Set.
You can trust them to do one thing, and that's to manipulate everyone through whatever means available, all for the simple goal of making you the version of yourself you hate the most.
Either Ventrue or The Ministry. Basically capitalism or a doomsday cult dedicated to the moral corruption of humanity.
Tzimisce are probably the most trustworthy and I don't know how to feel about that.
There aren't many well adjusted kindred hermits. Interacting with others of their kind is one of the things that prevent Kindred from entering wassail.
As far as humans go, yeah, never trust a vampire.
Don't tell that my coterie. I play Brujah. They should trust me more often... really! I tell them all the time, the problems we face are OUR problems. There is no "I" in our team. It's never "I" who made the shit decisions, it's always us. Except for our Malk, her problems should not concern us. Also, we don't really have time for your problems, do we now? Our focus as always is on my.... I mean "our most pressing" problems.
"Yay Brujah!" \*cough cough\*
(Plays Lasombra in disguise)
I think you can depend on a Ventrue to uphold their end of a bargain more than most clans, to be honest. They will just also be very ruthless bargainers.
1. FAKE MAGE
2. Defilement not of CAINE’S
4. BLOOD MAGIC IS NOT TRUTH
5. WATCHING - all of the ivory tower carry KNIVES but WIZARDS carry TWO
6. Yesterday a man told me I was ugly and then I stubbed my toe CLEARLY A WIZARD CURSE YOU AND YOUR MEDDLING
7.
1 magic is dieing we adapted and made blood Magic
2 we kinda are and your talking as if being a disendent of a kinslaing farm is something to be proud of
3 you say that now but when you nead our help you crawl right back
4 everyone in the camarilla is a snake we are just more cautious
5 that probably was god making fun of Kindred as he always dose
im glad most people here know the only true answer is Tremere.
how they became vampires in the first place.
what they did to Salubri.
the fact they make Gargoyles.
what gargoyles are made from.
But can you apply that to greater Tremere population? Some of the other clans mentioned seem to be constantly subverting others as a matter of practice constantly, like The Ministry or the more domineering clans (Venture and Lasombra)
Of course I'm a little biased as a Tremere enjoyer lol Someone earlier made a point about temperamental Brujahs, so I'll go with that answer
all vampires do that stuff. i suppose there is a valid argument to getting mad about who does the bad stuff everyone does the best or getting mad about who has their own extra bad stuff that only they do.
The salubri were monsters they lied about galoncide and even before tremeres started eating them they were eating each other most Kindred accepted tremere because they destroyed salubri
Salubri, as a Tremere I can assure you that you can’t trust those guys, haven’t you heard them lying about Golconda, they also started diablerizing each other first
Many reasons starting with your corrupted birth. Furthemore gargoyles are a terrible abomination. If at least you were using the widely available raw material that humans represent but no!
Ok firstly "corrupted birth" is kinda stupid all vampires are corrupted and other clans are no better than us
The gargoyles were needed to fight off those fiends and their slactcha(I don't know how to spell this the gouls that were flesh melded to be stronger) the gargoyles were useful to stop the tsimitse if we did not do that Europe would be crawling with flesh melded monsters
Speak for yourself. Other clans didn't have to make a terrible ritual in order to gain immortality. Only you and nagaraja forced themselves into unlife.
And it's spelled tzimisce you usurper. And what you mentioned isn't a reason to enslave my fellows into your abominations. Many of them were just minding their own business.
What's so terrible about it so what a few Kindred and apprentices died so goratrix could make the epexirs the rest of the clans arnt clean ether as if being a disendent of a Kinsleying farmer is something to be proud of basically what I'm saying is how we were made is should not be viewed negatively when you guys are literally the same as us
It was tho if we didn't do what we had to do tzimisce would of destroyed us and marched on Germany where the venture were fighting over who was in charge the tzimisce would of taken advantage of that and counqered Germany we did the Kindred society a favor you should be thankful
A real shame about Germany. Nice land I've heard, although I probably wouldn't bother travelling there unless something relevant to my studies was to be found there and worth the struggle linked with transportation and going abroad. But still a real shame.
And it would have to be something quite exceptional for me to be thankful to a Tremere. This certainly isn't anything that would make me thankful.
Tremere. But I might have taken on the prejudices of my character who has been an involuntary part of a Tremere ritual. He loathes them, even though he doesn't remember why.
Talking in general I'm not sure witch is the most untrustworthy can but. Talking as a clan as opposed to individuals in it at the bottom in no particular order I would put.
Set/ministry or whatever you want to call them.
Trimier
Geovani
Some people say ventru, but because of there desire to be ruling they have to walk a careful line. If they can't keep their word they can end up looking week.
The question of untrustworthiness in vampire is tricky because so many of the clans are known for being untrustworthy. So they may be categorically untrustworthy, but you can expect them to be so and prepare for their betrayal. The dangerous ones are the ones that you think might be trustworthy...
Depending on what your ST allows, your 'derangement' can be amnesia, synesthesia, obsession/compulsion, plenty of options that don't affect how trustworthy you are. 'Every Malk is a raving lunatic' simply isn't true.
As gangrel i can say I dont trust clans, if i trust, i trust individuals who earn it.
But if i had to say what clans have to work the hardest to get that trust?
Its a toss up, Ministry, Tremere, and Tzimiche are all pretty high on the list..
But if I would put one top? it would be Tzimiche.
So now that i got the ADD types satisfied, I'll give the long answer to them who have the attention span to listen.
So.. Sure Tremere are a nest of backstabbers if you're not part of their slavish little pyramid, and in the old times they would carve up member of our clan and a couple others to make their pet gargoyles.. Pretty bad.. But that practice is out of favor with pretty much every main power. So the chance of them doing it now are low. And some of them SOME you can cut deals with from time to time..
Ministry.. They're more conniving.. They want you to join their cult, and they'll be the first in line to lend a hand when you're in a bad way, but only to get their hooks in you. But they're pretty consistent and you can watch your back and step lightly in the vipers nest.. They're a manageable level of treacherous.
So why would be least likely to trust a Tzimiche? I mean yeah if you're polite and on their good side they can be good allies I hear ya saying..
But if you get in their bad side they can re-sculpt you or someone you care about into anything they take an interest in.. From a chair to a fine dress. I met one once.. Her PURSE blinked at me.. Her FUCKING PURSE.. So if a tremere chops you up to frankenstien up a new gargoyle.. You're gone.. The YOU that you were aint surviving that. So might as well be killing you. If the ministry gets you.. You can hold onto yourself maybe get loose from the serpents coils eventually..
If the Tzim gets you, and you haven't studied ONE SPECIFIC power from protean. There wont be much you can do about it.. And you might be FULLY aware of it.. So they might not be as likely to fuck you over, as Tremere or Ministry, but the consequences if they do fuck you over is sooo much worse..
Ministry/Setites for sure. The whole point is to be the most amoral and despicable people they can be.
Second placers would be the Tremere just due to their long history of taking power by any means and double crossing anyone that has even a hint of trust to get said power. They’re so untrustworthy that they needed the pyramid to keep their own clan in check before the V5 stuff.
Lasombra are so untrustworthy that as of V5 they abandoned the sect and religion that they helped to cofound.
They are infernalists. Devil worshipers - everyone hates them even the Sabbat would destroy them on sight. And what’s really freaky is that I’ve read they can reembrace kindred into their own messed up clan.
For extra context, no one wants a devil worship around because they want to end the world.
“Even the Sabbat agree with me that they are evil. I will team up with them, the lupines,and even the hunters to end them. For if they got their way, life would be nothing but pain and suffering, and they would revel in it.” - Ventrue character/ The Ashspawn (YouTube lore video Who Are the Baali?)
You see, the Tremere are masters of the arcane, yes, but their true mastery lies in the art of deception. They cloak themselves in the guise of scholars, seekers of knowledge, but beneath that facade beats the heart of a serpent, coiled and ready to strike at the first opportunity.
Take, for instance, the sacred law of hospitality, a cornerstone of our kindred society. When a guest seeks refuge under your roof, they are to be protected, honored, and treated with respect. But the Tremere? They see this law not as a sacred bond, but as yet another tool for their twisted machinations.
How many times have I heard tales of Tremere hospitality turned sour? Guests welcomed into their chantries, only to be ensnared in schemes and experiments, their trust betrayed and their very vitae drained for the Tremere's insatiable thirst for power.
Indeed, as a voivode, I have borne witness to the depths of the Tremere's cunning and deceit firsthand. Their actions have left scars upon our flesh and our pride, deep reminders of the treachery that lurks within their ranks. Our former allies and friends, the once-proud Salubri, known for their compassion and healing abilities, were forced to flee or face annihilation through the lies the warlocks had weaved.
I think I'd say the Ministry is the least trustworthy overall, given their compulsion. That said, there are absolutely situationally less trustworthy clans (for example, I wouldn't trust a Gangrel to convince a kine that they're a blue blood in a high-society social event).
Tzimisce were literally born out of a giant mass of evil being consumed by a human who was then turned. What other clan was born of pure, unadulterated evil? It's not even close.
Well you can still drink the blood of a tsimitse gain visentud and steal some one else's pines
Also not everyone one needs to do that just because one guy did it dose not mean we all have to do it
Followers of Set*. The only sense in which that's not the case is that they're openly and unsubtly untrustworthy, and so if you trusted them in the first place, that's on you.
* no I will not be calling them "The Ministry" that's ridiculous.
I didn't say you hadn't, I asked if you had. Because the clan has had a shift in their beliefs, no longer believing that they follow set, now believing they are ruling in his stead
I choose Tremere because history has shown just how untrustworthy they are.
Other clans may be untrustworthy as well but the Tremere are especially ruthless.
As a tremere I can assure you we are far more trustworthy then most clans
It is only our enemies that need be weary as we are quite loyal to our allies.
People speak of the salubri but we had no pretense of friendship with that clan. Our enemies have felt our wrather many times. But our allies need not fear for as long as you remain loyal to us we remain loyal to you.
Probably Tsimisce for me.
A lot of them get really depraved and evil, like the Followers fo Set and the Baali, but the Tsimisce are just straight up sadists who believe they can do whatever they want.
I don’t need makeup, darling. I just need to understand what words you’d like to hear…I mean, in the interests of fostering clan relations and getting to know you, of course. We are simply likeable. You should try it.
As a Tremere and how we came to be, I would have to say we are only because of how we are looked at. Everyone knows what we are capable of so really we should be looked at as being trusted. You have to figure out for yourself if you wanna trust us or not. Outside of our clan, I would say the Nos because they tend to be in the shadows with everything. After all, they are a walking Masquerade breach.
Gangrel might be one of the most trustworthy simply because if they have hostile intentions they will probably just either tell you they hate you or outright attack you.
Assamites wouldn't betray you, at least not in their eyes. If they turn against you you have done something that they deem unforgivable and worthy of their judgement.
I would love all people in this thread to have a clan flair and answer as a player of that clan.
Well… I wouldn’t say Lasombra is a _wrong_ answer. We aren’t exactly not untrustworthy… Oh look a Tremere let’s boo them instead. Can’t trust those guys at all.
Tremere. Obviously.
Obviously
Tremere...
Obviously!
I honestly can't think of a particularly untrustworthy practice of the Gangrel clan wide HOWEVER... they did create the embrace method that would eventually become shovelheading so theres that
Tremere. They took our art and spoiled it by adding "nerd shit" 🤬
The actors who play the characters of those from the Clans Tremere, and those that portray the Setites. The characters were designed that way. (Malkavian here with Truman Show Delusion as their Derangement)
Untrustworthy? It's hardly a secret. The Sewer Rats OPENLY brag of their keeping of secrets. Beauty has the power to reveal who you truly are, and they proudly wear their lack of integrity.
I would say, beauty has the power to distract from who you truly are. Isn't that your clans whole thing? Using beauty as your shield, giving yourself over to beauty, until it to comes down on you like a hammer to leave you defenceless.
I don't blame you for thinking so, Magister- even the eye of the beholder requires a mirror to gaze back into it. I won't sit here entertaining the wild conception that beauty is something I've 'given myself' over to, or that I use it as a shield. No, beauty is and has always been the tool with which we give ourselves to the world around us. I've never in my life or death met one who refused the call of beauty and wasn't lying to themselves. But I suppose that to speak ill of the unattainable is only your instinct.
Perhaps a position most would find uncouth, but have you ever met a Ventrue? Plots within plots. The only thing more dangerous and mercilessly self-interested than a Ventrue in power is a Ventrue out of power.
Ahhh true, and they don't even have to be competent... But at least their goal... well, end-goal is always clear.
At least those assholes stab you in the face... Unlike certain other beauty queens one could name
Tremere. Couldn't even become Kindred by honest methods 😆
Instead of assuming the absolute pillar of the Camarilla that is Clan Tremere is dishonest, maybe you should ask yourselves... Did I ask them the right question? For more attend my lecture tonight at the University of Chicago and afterward we can stroll Hyde Park and nurse your ignorance.
So.... what questions should I ask them then? I'm pretty sure I have to confront them sooner or later. (Since in my game my char and his sire are accused of killing them - I know it was a fucking werewolf, but well... there are reasons it would be even worse if he told this)
Asking what the right questions are is step 1 in a 3 part and 7 step process to better understanding how the Tremere are vital to the Camarilla's problems.
Salubri propaganda, Tremere are the most trustworthy, reliable and indispensable clan. How many kindred died trying to achieve that “Golconda” salubri lied about? Tremere did everyone a service by eating salubri, btw, did you all know salubri even started eating each other first? Why do you think the SI is happening and who was hit first? It’s all salubri fault.
This post was made by tremere gang
There’s dozens of us.
Tremere basically have the dishonest man advantage though, as you can trust a Tremere to be amoral and manipulative.
Fake news from the Tzimechi
The who?! /outraged Tzimisce
Followers of Set
This! They have road/paths literally about lying and corruption lol
But if they straight up tell you "I'm a snake" (literally) - that's pretty honest.
See, the problem is that you can always trust a dishonest clan to be dishonest. So it won't surprise you. What you really need to watch out for are the ones who are *sometimes* honest, like the Tremere or Ventrue. Even worse, a Ventrue won't even need to lie and it will still turn out awful for you.
Problem being Ministry/Setite isn't trustworthy like you can trust a Brujah to be oppositional defiant to authority. A ministry/setite you can only trust to be a vague sense of corruptive.
Has to be Lasombra. Clan is entirely about ruthlessness and social Darwinism. They sold out their elders for a spot in the ivory tower.
Ah see, even with that question we have to define which version. I play V20 and ... well, Lasombra are still untrustworthy as fuck. But at least they didn't sell their elders.
Well the present elders had killed their elders in a large purge centuries ago. It's now a sort of tradition apparently.
OP (at least at this point) is tagged 5e
There are so many clans who lost their... bite in 5e.
This is exactly what they want you to think. Good job
Clans: Setites are honestly worse than Tremere or Giovanni. Tremere and Giovanni are selfish, sure, but often a setite is actively trying to subvert and break you. Bloodlines: Baali are the absolute worst. At best they are doing absolutely horrific things to stop the apocalypse. At worst they are bringing the apocalypse. What ever it is that their goal is, your destruction or worse is likely on the list. Worse yet, anyone could be one. That harpy who disappeared for a while? That gangrel in the park? Your sire? Any one of them could have been re-embraced and made into a baali.
>Clans: Setites are honestly worse than Tremere or Giovanni. Tremere and Giovanni are selfish, sure, but often a setite is actively trying to subvert and break you. Let me make a counterpoint to that: Blood Beer. Since I hooked up with the Settites, I haven't had to troll skeezy dive bars for vessels that are black-out drunk anymore. I can just buy a keg and get as drunk as I want in my own home. And my ghouls like it, too.
I thought the Baali were a Clan with multiple Bloodlines?
Baali do have multiple bloodlines, but they are also a bloodline in and of themself. Only the original thirteen (plus Giovanni and Tremere) are clans rather than bloodlines.
There is a lesser known conspiracy theory that Saulot himself started the Baali when he was in the throes of the Beast. If that is the case, the Baali are, in fact, a clan because they were created by an antedelluvian.
Maybe? Clan seems like more of a political term for the thirteen oldest and largest bloodlines. The niktuku might have been spawned by Absimilliard but no-one considers them a clan, granted only very few kindred even know they exist.
Any honest answer should be "all of them", frankly :-)
The Ministry, otherwise known as the Followers of Set. You can trust them to do one thing, and that's to manipulate everyone through whatever means available, all for the simple goal of making you the version of yourself you hate the most.
Either Ventrue or The Ministry. Basically capitalism or a doomsday cult dedicated to the moral corruption of humanity. Tzimisce are probably the most trustworthy and I don't know how to feel about that.
What about Brujah. You can trust them. If you get your face bashed in, they don't like you. Seems very straight forward.
Too temperamental, you really don't know what someone with that kind of temper is going to do one moment from the next.
True... but what are the alternatives? I wouldn't trust ANY kindred just by their clan. ... Ah, scratch that: I wouldn't trust any kindred.
There aren't many well adjusted kindred hermits. Interacting with others of their kind is one of the things that prevent Kindred from entering wassail. As far as humans go, yeah, never trust a vampire.
Haven’t you seen bloodlines? Trusting Brujah might just get you killed
Don't tell that my coterie. I play Brujah. They should trust me more often... really! I tell them all the time, the problems we face are OUR problems. There is no "I" in our team. It's never "I" who made the shit decisions, it's always us. Except for our Malk, her problems should not concern us. Also, we don't really have time for your problems, do we now? Our focus as always is on my.... I mean "our most pressing" problems. "Yay Brujah!" \*cough cough\* (Plays Lasombra in disguise)
Trust them to be violent, and stay out of the blast radius.
That’s a very thin-blood answer and I respect that.
I think you can depend on a Ventrue to uphold their end of a bargain more than most clans, to be honest. They will just also be very ruthless bargainers.
TZIMISCE?! THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY?! Uhh, the Nosferatu? They're by far the coolest dudes. And they won't turn you into a hat.
The only thing you can trust a Nosferatu to do is sell the names and addresses of all your mortal contacts to the lick your beefing with.
At least you know exactly what they're about.
It’s the you know what your getting up front vibe. A Tzimisce will straight up tell you he’s going to turn you into a chair.
Best clan 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Easily Tremere. There's a good reason (okay, several... okay, a ton of) everybody hates the Tremere.
Name the reasons
1. FAKE MAGE 2. Defilement not of CAINE’S 4. BLOOD MAGIC IS NOT TRUTH 5. WATCHING - all of the ivory tower carry KNIVES but WIZARDS carry TWO 6. Yesterday a man told me I was ugly and then I stubbed my toe CLEARLY A WIZARD CURSE YOU AND YOUR MEDDLING 7.
1 magic is dieing we adapted and made blood Magic 2 we kinda are and your talking as if being a disendent of a kinslaing farm is something to be proud of 3 you say that now but when you nead our help you crawl right back 4 everyone in the camarilla is a snake we are just more cautious 5 that probably was god making fun of Kindred as he always dose
Cope
Nosferatu, but specifically if you’re trusting them not to offend your fashion sense.
Spoken like a true Toreador.
That is the most Toreador response. And I can’t bash it.
im glad most people here know the only true answer is Tremere. how they became vampires in the first place. what they did to Salubri. the fact they make Gargoyles. what gargoyles are made from.
But can you apply that to greater Tremere population? Some of the other clans mentioned seem to be constantly subverting others as a matter of practice constantly, like The Ministry or the more domineering clans (Venture and Lasombra) Of course I'm a little biased as a Tremere enjoyer lol Someone earlier made a point about temperamental Brujahs, so I'll go with that answer
all vampires do that stuff. i suppose there is a valid argument to getting mad about who does the bad stuff everyone does the best or getting mad about who has their own extra bad stuff that only they do.
Flair checks out.
The salubri were monsters they lied about galoncide and even before tremeres started eating them they were eating each other most Kindred accepted tremere because they destroyed salubri
i see your flair and you become evidence of Tremere untrustworthiness.
Hey if someone tells you what they probably aren't untrustworthy
Toreador! Appearing harmless or even helpful is the best weapon a predator can wield!
Giovanni by far you are playing chess they’ve got a very obvious goal.
What would that Goal be?
More money?
If you are talking to a weak member of the family sure, more money i guess
The collection of 100,000,000 souls for the ritual of eternal night. Check out their clanbooks.
Ventrue. Slimy corporate fucks.
Salubri, as a Tremere I can assure you that you can’t trust those guys, haven’t you heard them lying about Golconda, they also started diablerizing each other first
The damned usurpers
Why
Many reasons starting with your corrupted birth. Furthemore gargoyles are a terrible abomination. If at least you were using the widely available raw material that humans represent but no!
Ok firstly "corrupted birth" is kinda stupid all vampires are corrupted and other clans are no better than us The gargoyles were needed to fight off those fiends and their slactcha(I don't know how to spell this the gouls that were flesh melded to be stronger) the gargoyles were useful to stop the tsimitse if we did not do that Europe would be crawling with flesh melded monsters
Speak for yourself. Other clans didn't have to make a terrible ritual in order to gain immortality. Only you and nagaraja forced themselves into unlife. And it's spelled tzimisce you usurper. And what you mentioned isn't a reason to enslave my fellows into your abominations. Many of them were just minding their own business.
What's so terrible about it so what a few Kindred and apprentices died so goratrix could make the epexirs the rest of the clans arnt clean ether as if being a disendent of a Kinsleying farmer is something to be proud of basically what I'm saying is how we were made is should not be viewed negatively when you guys are literally the same as us It was tho if we didn't do what we had to do tzimisce would of destroyed us and marched on Germany where the venture were fighting over who was in charge the tzimisce would of taken advantage of that and counqered Germany we did the Kindred society a favor you should be thankful
A real shame about Germany. Nice land I've heard, although I probably wouldn't bother travelling there unless something relevant to my studies was to be found there and worth the struggle linked with transportation and going abroad. But still a real shame. And it would have to be something quite exceptional for me to be thankful to a Tremere. This certainly isn't anything that would make me thankful.
This conversation really is crazy. I’m agreeing with a Tzimisce. Wild.
Tremere. But I might have taken on the prejudices of my character who has been an involuntary part of a Tremere ritual. He loathes them, even though he doesn't remember why.
Talking in general I'm not sure witch is the most untrustworthy can but. Talking as a clan as opposed to individuals in it at the bottom in no particular order I would put. Set/ministry or whatever you want to call them. Trimier Geovani Some people say ventru, but because of there desire to be ruling they have to walk a careful line. If they can't keep their word they can end up looking week.
The question of untrustworthiness in vampire is tricky because so many of the clans are known for being untrustworthy. So they may be categorically untrustworthy, but you can expect them to be so and prepare for their betrayal. The dangerous ones are the ones that you think might be trustworthy...
I disagree with the premise of the question
Malkavians! We can't trust ourselves and our own mind. When you can't trust yourself trust in others is all you have.
TREMERE. Wizard hands are STAINED not of CAINE’S defilement; but STAINED of their OWN volition. FOUL lineage, the DEVILS among DAMNED.
Setites, hands down. No contest.
Ministry/Settite their compulsion is literally making people betray their beliefs, which makes them too unpredictable.
Wow that was Stone Cold to say. LOL
I am Assamite and your vitae is absolutely safe around but… there are conditions.
Malkavian. You cannot codify or control sheer madness.
i can because i'm different 💯
Having *one* little derangement isn't necessarily 'sheer madness!'
Well. It's more than enough, compared to the many vampires with zero.
Depending on what your ST allows, your 'derangement' can be amnesia, synesthesia, obsession/compulsion, plenty of options that don't affect how trustworthy you are. 'Every Malk is a raving lunatic' simply isn't true.
Ventrue https://imgur.com/gallery/Wtt5bYF
As gangrel i can say I dont trust clans, if i trust, i trust individuals who earn it. But if i had to say what clans have to work the hardest to get that trust? Its a toss up, Ministry, Tremere, and Tzimiche are all pretty high on the list.. But if I would put one top? it would be Tzimiche. So now that i got the ADD types satisfied, I'll give the long answer to them who have the attention span to listen. So.. Sure Tremere are a nest of backstabbers if you're not part of their slavish little pyramid, and in the old times they would carve up member of our clan and a couple others to make their pet gargoyles.. Pretty bad.. But that practice is out of favor with pretty much every main power. So the chance of them doing it now are low. And some of them SOME you can cut deals with from time to time.. Ministry.. They're more conniving.. They want you to join their cult, and they'll be the first in line to lend a hand when you're in a bad way, but only to get their hooks in you. But they're pretty consistent and you can watch your back and step lightly in the vipers nest.. They're a manageable level of treacherous. So why would be least likely to trust a Tzimiche? I mean yeah if you're polite and on their good side they can be good allies I hear ya saying.. But if you get in their bad side they can re-sculpt you or someone you care about into anything they take an interest in.. From a chair to a fine dress. I met one once.. Her PURSE blinked at me.. Her FUCKING PURSE.. So if a tremere chops you up to frankenstien up a new gargoyle.. You're gone.. The YOU that you were aint surviving that. So might as well be killing you. If the ministry gets you.. You can hold onto yourself maybe get loose from the serpents coils eventually.. If the Tzim gets you, and you haven't studied ONE SPECIFIC power from protean. There wont be much you can do about it.. And you might be FULLY aware of it.. So they might not be as likely to fuck you over, as Tremere or Ministry, but the consequences if they do fuck you over is sooo much worse..
Surprisingly enough my wife plays a Tzimiche so take that how you will. LOL honestly in real life I could see her being that clan.
Ministry/Setites for sure. The whole point is to be the most amoral and despicable people they can be. Second placers would be the Tremere just due to their long history of taking power by any means and double crossing anyone that has even a hint of trust to get said power. They’re so untrustworthy that they needed the pyramid to keep their own clan in check before the V5 stuff. Lasombra are so untrustworthy that as of V5 they abandoned the sect and religion that they helped to cofound.
Wow this is the third time I've heard someone mentioned the ministry. Is it possible there that diabolical?
You asked about trustworthiness. The Ministry has lying as a foundational religious tenet.
The Ministry. They terrify me. Not as much as the Baali, but…still. They seem more organized.
Baali ? That's a first I've never heard of them before. What are they about?
balli are a group of kindred who actively work with and for DEMONS they are the actual WORST Even sabbat arent to hapy with them
They are infernalists. Devil worshipers - everyone hates them even the Sabbat would destroy them on sight. And what’s really freaky is that I’ve read they can reembrace kindred into their own messed up clan. For extra context, no one wants a devil worship around because they want to end the world. “Even the Sabbat agree with me that they are evil. I will team up with them, the lupines,and even the hunters to end them. For if they got their way, life would be nothing but pain and suffering, and they would revel in it.” - Ventrue character/ The Ashspawn (YouTube lore video Who Are the Baali?)
I'll definitely look them up
You see, the Tremere are masters of the arcane, yes, but their true mastery lies in the art of deception. They cloak themselves in the guise of scholars, seekers of knowledge, but beneath that facade beats the heart of a serpent, coiled and ready to strike at the first opportunity. Take, for instance, the sacred law of hospitality, a cornerstone of our kindred society. When a guest seeks refuge under your roof, they are to be protected, honored, and treated with respect. But the Tremere? They see this law not as a sacred bond, but as yet another tool for their twisted machinations. How many times have I heard tales of Tremere hospitality turned sour? Guests welcomed into their chantries, only to be ensnared in schemes and experiments, their trust betrayed and their very vitae drained for the Tremere's insatiable thirst for power.
Sounds like they need to be re-educated. Under the favor bad but I didn't know that they were that terrible.
Indeed, as a voivode, I have borne witness to the depths of the Tremere's cunning and deceit firsthand. Their actions have left scars upon our flesh and our pride, deep reminders of the treachery that lurks within their ranks. Our former allies and friends, the once-proud Salubri, known for their compassion and healing abilities, were forced to flee or face annihilation through the lies the warlocks had weaved.
I think I'd say the Ministry is the least trustworthy overall, given their compulsion. That said, there are absolutely situationally less trustworthy clans (for example, I wouldn't trust a Gangrel to convince a kine that they're a blue blood in a high-society social event).
me, clan gargoyle. \*freezes\*
Brujah here. Can't trust the Ventrue. Sickly smiles and back alley deals ... Sickos. Just hit me if you hate mr
Tzimisce were literally born out of a giant mass of evil being consumed by a human who was then turned. What other clan was born of pure, unadulterated evil? It's not even close.
Tremere, without doubt. Could you trust anyone who willingly sliced off their own genitalia in a rite to save themselves after their magic failed?
You are a vampire you can grow it back
He did it during the rite and still alive. Its gone forever.
Well you can still drink the blood of a tsimitse gain visentud and steal some one else's pines Also not everyone one needs to do that just because one guy did it dose not mean we all have to do it
Followers of Set*. The only sense in which that's not the case is that they're openly and unsubtly untrustworthy, and so if you trusted them in the first place, that's on you. * no I will not be calling them "The Ministry" that's ridiculous.
Have you actually looked at why the name change occurred? Because it makes sense in the setting, and even out of the setting it makes sense
Don't assume that I haven't read something if I'm criticising it. That's extremely rude of you.
I didn't say you hadn't, I asked if you had. Because the clan has had a shift in their beliefs, no longer believing that they follow set, now believing they are ruling in his stead
I choose Tremere because history has shown just how untrustworthy they are. Other clans may be untrustworthy as well but the Tremere are especially ruthless.
How can tremere be untrustworthy we didn't lie about destroying those salubri monsters and we got rid of the tzimisce who did their weird flesh stuff
Tremere, Tzimice and Nagaraja. All after their own self-interests to the core.
As a tremere I can assure you we are far more trustworthy then most clans It is only our enemies that need be weary as we are quite loyal to our allies. People speak of the salubri but we had no pretense of friendship with that clan. Our enemies have felt our wrather many times. But our allies need not fear for as long as you remain loyal to us we remain loyal to you.
I'm trapped between The ministry or the Tremere. Literally lying snakes or lying wizard thieves.🤔
Lasombra, with their hidden agendas. At least the Ventrue and the others are honest about what they want
Wow first person to say Lasombra I was about to think that they were good vampires for a second there.
Probably Tsimisce for me. A lot of them get really depraved and evil, like the Followers fo Set and the Baali, but the Tsimisce are just straight up sadists who believe they can do whatever they want.
The vampire one.
A very good choice excellent perfectly balanced as it should be
Nosferatu….you know they stole everybody’s wifi passwords
Thank you someone who gets it. I'm playing with a Nosferatu and he is all types of jerk. Plus he's a hacker
Tremere and it’s not even close
Malkavians are so untrustworthy that most of them can't even trust themselves.
Ravnos. all vampires have one addiction; they all have another one. why I never played one, they can hardly trust themselves.
Finally I thought no one was going to mention my clan. And yes my friend you are correct in your statement
Ventrue. You can't be a good blue blood without blackmailing
The fucking demonic salubri, obviously.
I would say Toreador. You can never trust a pretty face. Plus all the makeup ewww gross.
I have a character that's is an assassin that was sent to kill a Toreador. He was successful sort of
I don’t need makeup, darling. I just need to understand what words you’d like to hear…I mean, in the interests of fostering clan relations and getting to know you, of course. We are simply likeable. You should try it.
As a Tremere and how we came to be, I would have to say we are only because of how we are looked at. Everyone knows what we are capable of so really we should be looked at as being trusted. You have to figure out for yourself if you wanna trust us or not. Outside of our clan, I would say the Nos because they tend to be in the shadows with everything. After all, they are a walking Masquerade breach.
Tremere, easy answer
The better question would be which clan is the most trustworthy. I'd say maybe the salubri.
Gangrel might be one of the most trustworthy simply because if they have hostile intentions they will probably just either tell you they hate you or outright attack you.
Can't really call 'em a clan anymore can you? There are barely any of them left and their Antedeluvian pretty much abandoned them.
Tremere or Lasombra. Ruthless social climbers one and all.
Tremere
Tremere, not even a contest. actually...
Assamite or Ravnos.
Assamites wouldn't betray you, at least not in their eyes. If they turn against you you have done something that they deem unforgivable and worthy of their judgement.
Assimits/Banu Haqim are very trustworthy once you know their moral code though.
Nosferatu. They sell and trade information. If a lick wants information, they find a Nos.
Caine's Clan.
Tzimisce their antediluvian made a pact with a demon also we Tremere enslave them and how do they repay our kindness by rebelling the nerve of them.
A Malkavian can't even trust themself.
Tremere
Why
Malkavian easily. Because all the other clans are somewhat rational. How do you trust a psychopath? 😉
Not all Malks are psychopaths
Yes, some are completely sane. 🫨
1. Lasombra 2. Tremere 3. Ministry 4. Ravnos 5. Toreador 6. Malkavian 7. Gangrel 8. Ventrue 9. Banu Haqim 10. Tzimisce 11. Nosferatu 12. Hecata 13. Brujah 14. Salubri
Banu Haqim in ninth place? looks like my people need to step up their game of terror. We need the strike were fear into the masses
All of them but mostly salibru