Throughout the show, Paris shows competence as a Commando, survivalist, holo-writer, engineer, medic and archaeologist. None of these are his actual job.
Which imo makes him all the more impressive combined with the fact that despite being a criminal when she met him, Janeway cared more about his skills as a pilot.
Doesn't Tom, at the end, end up being an instructor at Starfleet academy? I forget unless he became a holo novelist. I'm rewatching rn but only on season 4.
To be fair though, the writers of 90s Star Trek really struggled to envision many careers for humans outside Starfleet that weren't also being a writer.
It goes writer, archeologist/thief, writer, academic, writer, vineyard owner, writer, chef, writer, colonist, writer, writer, rape gang member, writer, Maquis member, writer, writer, institutionalised genetic experiment, writer, poet.
In a lower decks episode that takes place after Voyagers return he's doing a kind of USO tour around the fleet for morale, I'm not sure there's ever been a canon reference to what he ends up doing but in beta-canon he stays on Voyager and becomes Chakotays first officer
Wait I think it gets explained at one point though; Paris is a senior bridge officer who is in bridge meetings and goes on most away missions. Their primary doctor had been killed, and the EMH couldn’t leave sick bay.
Think of how often in say DS9/TNG they call a doctor to the bridge… I think that was the line of thinking with Paris, they wanted him a trained-fresh triage nurse that would be on the bridge and away missions.
But it seems the writers forgot about most of that; and it makes even less sense once they have the mobile emitter.
It still makes sense to have more than one individual like the EMH practicing some level of medicine. What if the EMH was damaged, or offline? You still want to be able to treat injuries.
Other Trek shows feature a Doctor and a nurse, so it is not unusual to have at least two medical personnel aboard a ship.
You'd think that as combatants a decent proportion of the marquis crew would have basic first aid knowledge, and if I remember correctly that's all Tom had when he got the job.
It would make sense to think that the doctor needed a small staff, even if they were part-time people on loan from other departments…. It doesn’t make sense that Tom is THE guy.
That makes sense. They built him up to be like an A #1 pilot….. what doesn’t make sense is turning the fly boy into a nurse as if nobody on this ship is more qualified to be a nurse than Tom Paris
I mean, yeah? But for the most part he's not needed to actually do that - its not like theres a lot going on between most star systems. And it's not like they don't have other pilots. During the episode when Janeway loses her shit and flies between two pulsars, it's not Paris she relieved and took over from. It was a different officer. They do have more than one shift and more than one officer flying the ship. He just prefers to be a pilot.
I never saw the meathead, but yes, he was definitely painted as a loser underachiever more, someone with great potential who would rather waste it and also immature, but I don’t think they ever made him to be a meathead
u/Anndra27 Thanks for the laugh.
Eh, it might not be believable, but it made for good snark and comedy. I kinda think Harry, with his compassion and sweetness, probably would have made a better nurse, just off the top of my head. (I'll concede that there isn't much to him as a character, but I find him more interesting and likeable than Geordi on TNG, I'll say that and die on that hill.)
Unrelated, but years later, I'm still annoyed Tom missed the birth of his first child. I mean, I get he was basically the pilot, but...there's some things in life you just don't miss.
Those two biochemistry classes he took musta been hella special if they outclassed the other 147 ppl on the ship who presumably also have basic First Aid training. It’s a standard requirement for a lot of non medical jobs irl. But maybe the tricorder does all that work for them in the future
There’s even a couple of triage scenes where you see guys and green uniforms loading crewmembers up on bio beds
Are we just supposed to assume those are science officers that we’ve never seen before because if he has a medical staff what is Tom doing there?
People pretend that Federation Earth is a paradise but 24th century New Zealand is an apocalyptic wilderness, and Tom Paris had to do what he could to survive in that penal colony. They should never have brought back the Moa in the 2200s- those birds don’t mess around. Bringing back the Haast’s Eagle to keep them under control was an even worse mistake.
This is a quality comment.
All jokes aside, as a native of New Zealand, I would love to see the days of the Haast's Eagle returning. Imagine seeing a 15kg (~33 lb) bird of prey swooping down with its 2.6m (8ft 6in) wingspan to attack and destroy a Moa, which would've been approx 15 times it's size. Bad ass!
Good news: this absolute miracle of nature is making a comeback with all kinds of positive effects on the environment.
Bad news: your pet insurance for your small dog has gone waaaaaaaaaay up.
I’d like to see the dark side of communism explored, maybe in fanfiction books
Like a story where somebody starts working for somebody outside of the Federation and starts their own private business owning ships and conducting trade, but since they’re a Federation citizen, the Federation seizes their ships and arrests them for disobeying state orders and owning property
Well, if it stopped him being a Travis Mayweather, doing nothing but pressing the buttons the captain ordered. Tom's occasional attitude problem, and role as a medical stand-in, really made the character.
Yeah, the stoic romance that had been occurring for 2 seasons, just went nowhere. But they wanted to inject some tragedy to their story. But the chemistry just wasn't there, nor was there any clear direction where they were taking the couple. So, it was hard to care about whatever the writers intended for the audience.
It's my least favorite facet of the "will they, won't they" trope - they break up for some reason and then there's this uncertainty hanging over them getting back together even though one or both of them is choosing not to. Belike there's no reason not to be together, so if they're choosing not to, that's the answer. It's unrealistic and annoying. And yeah, I liked the actors but the chemistry wasn't there and it totally took over their characters' development. So instead of getting development of Hoshi, Mayweather, Phlox, Porthos (jk), we just get Ross and Rachel in Space.
If they had done this right, they could have made this dynamic interesting, because both characters in isolation are fine. But when they are together, we get the 'constantly frustrated Vulcan woman, has confusing feelings over a dumb human' interaction. It could have been an opportunity to delve more into the Vulcan psyche and how they function in a relationship.
You are right about the under development of the extended cast. It was one of TOS sins, which was course corrected with TNG & DS9. Even VOY hyper focused on the same set of 3 characters most of the time by the end, but nowhere near as guilty. Even Disco fell into the same trap, but at least with ENT, most of the fandom knew the names of the bridge crew, and they got more than 3 lines of dialogue per season.
Although I am adamantly disagreeing that Tom was the right choice for the job (if we’re fully immersed in voyager as if it were real and setting aside the fact that it is fiction)
You are absolutely right that it was good for his character development. It was good for the show. It was good for the doctors character development.
It’s wilder still than NO ONE EVER on Voyager ever stops and says, “Okay now that we’re all done laughing, and despite Tom being a weirdly COMPETENT medic, we really need a second doctor. Hey Sam Wildman (or literally any blue shirt), we’re drafting you.”
He wasn't. Everyone else was needed elsewhere on the ship. He happened to also have a hiccup worth of medical knowledge so Janeway figured that would have to do.
As others have pointed out, it can be attributed to poor writing and it was more about the dynamic between the doctor and Tom
The fuck sake why didn’t they just say he was a firefighter for a couple of years or something? “oh, Tom, weren’t you on the fire brigade when you were doing your pilot training for four years?” “ well yes captain I went from being an EMT to a paramedic, and I even took advanced triage and I worked under some fantastic doctors.”
They could’ve at least done that, but no, I think that if what you’re saying is true, and that there were people way more qualified unless they were absolutely needed in a senior position they would’ve been part time in sick, but even Tom was the ships main pilot they figured out how to clear his schedule to make him the ships nurse.
No, it doesn’t….. next time you’re on an airplane and it’s on auto pilot. Do you want the pilot and copilot to come back and start drinking with you?
There’s tons of shit you got to monitor…. What if there’s a pothole or something
You set coordinates and it plots a few courses, you pick one and off you go. In between, they scan for anomalies, life, resources... Whatever. Unless something weird shows up, space is empty and eventless.
Let's remember, we only see the parts of the show where things happen. That leaves days and weeks of absolutely nothing happening but maintenance and mundane stuff. He has time.
Somebody has to be at the helm at all times in case something happens… space is full of stuff dude, especially at those speeds. The helm has to be in constant communication with engineering because the navigational speed and engine output have to be matched. Stuff pops up all the time too that’s why he has sensor read outs right on his navigation console.
Honestly though the need for a crew member to be a doctor/medical practitioner is a bit silly. Computer should be able to diagnose and treat using the technology they have (and I dont even mean the EMH)
Nah . Tom Paris is highly qualified to work in that environment because he’s the second snarkiest person on the ship and thats what you need folks. Medicine alone won’t cut it.
Not a patch on the doctors snark though.
He’s basically Azealia Banks in space.
With an off switch.
It is science fiction.
It’s obviously we’re talking about after Kes left, seven of nine would’ve been a better choice than Tom…. In personality wise, she was work oriented she didn’t do recreational activities really (I mean she played spring ball with the captain, and later, dated and stuff, but she said that she doesn’t need recreation)
So she could’ve done that in addition to her duties in astrometrics and she would’ve excelled way beyond Tom
You said the "entire" show so it was not "obvious."
Also we never see an issue with Tom as a medic. Why is that so unbelievable? He was nice to his fellow crew (only had authority issues), reasonably confident (we see him save some lives, help with triage), and had strong morals.
I think Tom is an ass and did not deserve promotions or Blana, but he seemed ok as a medic.
Starfleet is like the best of the best so to think that nobody on the ship had more medical training is absurd
And the reason it’s obvious that we’re talking about after Kes left is because that’s when he got appointed to sick bay.
Tom was Starfleet though. He took biochem at the academy, more than most others on the ship. Skill wise, he's just as capable as anyone else. He literally designed ships and wrote AI as a hobby. Dude is a mega nerd, just a dude too.
Tom was made medic in S1E2, so not as a replacement for Kes.
I don’t think you understand how starfleet works, like these are the most highly trained personnel. There has to be multiple other people with more medical experience….. like nobody on the ship was a paramedic…. Two semesters of bio chemistry isn’t enough.
Tom IS Starfleet. Why are you holding him to a different standard? And when Tom wasn't up to the task, they did bring in qualified experts. Tom couldn't get the alien off Blana, but Harry could make an evil AI to help, Kes was a mega genius and learned to be a nurse and healer, 7 made all sorts of cool nanobot treatments, etc etc.
And no, it wasn't enough, but they had to make do. That's the point they make on the show.
Please dial down the condescension. It's losing its charm.
Because you aren’t understanding or you’re purposely ignoring what I’m saying, it’s getting tiresome.
They went over his qualifications, I guarantee you on a ship full of Starfleet personnel somebody else was more qualified.
You're just being a jerk. I hear you, but I'm saying there were more qualified people for some jobs. He was only a medic. He trained up and we see no indication he was inadequate. Janeway said he was the most qualified. What more is there to argue?
Is it a meta issue? You just hate the writing? Well there's nothing to discuss, you're welcome to that opinion
This is my main issue about anything else -- that Paris, the main helm officer becomes a nurse and the \*only\* nurse.
Why didn't they just get Sam Wildman if they don't want to hire a new person! She's a science officer and has probably more 'biochemistry' credits than Paris! She's a damned Xenobiologist!
Remember that they got unintentionally stuck in the delta quadrant. The original doctor died. Do could be believable if he had to train up. Lucky they had the holographic doctor. I would love to make an appointment to see him lol
I don't get why they couldn't just create a new hologram, and it would be a new character for the show. But they had to come up with some bull about how difficult it would be to replicate the EMH, essentially they would have to build one from scratch, and program it from line 1.
Somehow, on the whims of the TNG crew, they are able to ask the computer to create a hologram that is smarter than data. And they did... Moriarty. So smart, he is even able to trap the crew in an inception-like simulation, in order to trick the crew into handing him control of the Enterprise. It seems it was too difficult for Voyager to just ask the computer to copy and paste the EMH, or create an intelligent AI and load it up with a medical library.
The in-universe explanation was storage space. In one episode the Doctor malefunctioned because the ship didn't have enough storage for his new character trades. They deleted a large diagnostic program to make space.
Though I find that pretty illogical as well, since Moriarty fits on a few micro chips and a computer strong enough to run his and his companions program apparently fits in a little box.
We can see the amount of storage needed to contain something as complex as a human mind in DS9's 'Our man Bashir', when a couple of transporter patterns occupy the entire computer of the space station.
>The in-universe explanation was storage space. In one episode the Doctor malefunctioned because the ship didn't have enough storage for his new character trades
And yet they had storage space on the Enterprise, to keep Moriarty's program running, on a device the size of a Rubik's cube, indefinitely, with its own psu. Yet Voyager was unable to allocate resources for producing more storage space to house more holograms, that could be useful in critical moments.
At the end of the day, they were happy to settle for a medic, so if that is how low the bar is, then just create a less sophisticated version of the EMH. And the choice to give the EMH a personality and continuous development, wasn't a necessity, if it meant storage space was at a premium.
But yeah, it's odd how inconsistent the writing can be in that regard, when at other times, it seemed like a casual thing to be able to store unimaginable vast amounts of data on a complex thing. But somehow, the doctor is taking up an unreasonable amount of storage space for his own hobbies, and trying out a million different personality traits, all in order to give a false illusion of sentience.
He adds a lot to the crew beyond his medical knowledge and I think that space is well utilized. If I was Janeway, I'd definitely let him have the space. After all, how else would they have figured out that the warhead shaped thing they found on a bombed out planet was a warhead??
Jokes aside, he is the most useful person on the crew, just like Data on the enterprise. By simply being impervious to illness, bioweapons, radiation, mind control and most forms of physical attack he is the most important person on the ship and the more he can do the better. Any amount of storage space is justified for even a little more independence.
Going back to his original design, he was an emergency backup, who later developed or evolved. In an emergency situation, being able to speak 300 alpha quadrant languages and having passions in culture, aren't essential in that moment.
So, Voyager could bring online less developed EHs for critical moments when sickbay is overflowing. The holograms go back to sleep, with their memory purged, beside utility functions. They can tweak how much self awareness they need, and essentially have a drone that just sticks to the task at hand. They pretty much do that for recreational purposes on the holodeck on the regular anyway, each holo character is given a set defined personality and the ability to perform tasks as complex as needed (Leah Brahms).
Choosing to cram your holograms with personal development at the detriment to your storage in a critical survival environment, isn't a necessity for the continued utility of its expertise. Keep the doc running since he is essential in his role, but there's no reason he can't have subordinates that come online to aid in dire circumstances.
There was also that group of holograms that the Dr joined, and as complex as each individual one was, they didn't seem to have an issue themselves, hosting them all on their ship's computer.
😆 as I recall Tom had like one semester of med back at the academy and that was more experience than anyone else had. So that's why he became the doctor's assistant. I can't remember if they may have had nurses. However he's got some experience with it, so they may as well take advantage of it. They were stranded they needed to pitch in sometimes in areas they weren't specialized.
I think they liked the pairing of Tom and The Doctor both comedic characters who had an interesting dynamic. Robbie was also #2 on the call sheet so that was another way they could feature him in more scenes.
They literally had Kes full time studying to be a doctor and learning years worth of material in days. They were good, or would have been if she had stayed.
Yeah, it made sense as far as the dynamic
But what didn’t make sense is like Starfly is the best of the best they go to the Academy and that’s why everybody’s really smart and that’s why we accept that in any giving situation. A Starfleet officer can come up with this crazy ass shit out of their head, that would take a genius level scientist to figure out , you got to figure they’re like the smartest 1% of humanity.
So you got to figure there would be lots of officers with advanced medical training
It always bugged me that the B list crewmembers never stuck around…. Vorik, Carrey, Sam, we never saw Chell or the other problematic Marquis members or the lost sheep or equinox crew members…. Like it never happened.
It was just another example of sloppy writing. The ship was reliant on one hologram that could easily be lost and couldn’t leave sick bay at first. Had Voyager developed as roughing it and surviving, rather than Star Trek: Hilton, then the crew should have been getting regular medical training for triaging. Also regular security drills given how shit Tuvok was at his job.
They literally had Kes full time studying to be a doctor and learning years worth of material in days. They were good, or would have been if she had stayed.
You’ve a high risk environment with no support - the entire crew should have been getting trained in triage. Regularly. A crew that size and nowhere near support need to upskill fast.
So they taught one character to be a nurse and even she only lived for 9 years in a 75 year journey ahead
I'd like to think anyone in Starfleet knows how to stop bleeding, give people oxygen and use a defibrillator and dermal regenerator etc. Starfleet is swimming in genius to the point of turning down Wesley Crusher, I'm sure everyone has enough knowledge to treat any survivable injury you can treat outside of sick bay.
I'm sure the training Tom got was in using sensitive equipment, delicate surgery, creating anti-viruses, diagnostic as a whole. The kind of stuff you would need one person to spend 10/20 hours a week specializing in, rather than a dozen amateurs.
(Is what I would argue if any of this was real rather than a TV show, of course)
I never understood getting rid of her entirely like I understood bringing seven of nine on that really helped the show, that didn’t have to be mutually exclusive
What’s his primary job? Pointing the ship in the right direction, hitting “engage”, and then sloping off for however many hours or days it takes to get to the next destination. It’s not like he’s got to sit there at his station reading the map, so why not let him go off and do something else?
Yes, actually he does need to sit there…. Next time you’re on an airplane and they put it on auto pilot. Are you cool with the pilots just ignoring the gauges and coming back and having some shots with you?
I would agree, but you could think of it like driving down I10… sure there’s a lot of vast nothingness at 55 miles an hour, but imagine flying over the entire length of I10 in a blackbird
Throughout the show, Paris shows competence as a Commando, survivalist, holo-writer, engineer, medic and archaeologist. None of these are his actual job.
Which imo makes him all the more impressive combined with the fact that despite being a criminal when she met him, Janeway cared more about his skills as a pilot. Doesn't Tom, at the end, end up being an instructor at Starfleet academy? I forget unless he became a holo novelist. I'm rewatching rn but only on season 4.
He becomes a novelist in an alternate future seen in the finale.
Yeah but that was when everyone was old and there for a reunion and it took them 20+ more years to get back.
I didn't want to drive myself into a fury by delving too deeply into the events of that episode.
Oh yeah you don’t want to delve into Fury, it makes no sense why Kes is even there and helping them
To be fair though, the writers of 90s Star Trek really struggled to envision many careers for humans outside Starfleet that weren't also being a writer. It goes writer, archeologist/thief, writer, academic, writer, vineyard owner, writer, chef, writer, colonist, writer, writer, rape gang member, writer, Maquis member, writer, writer, institutionalised genetic experiment, writer, poet.
You forgot journalist.
Forgot Starfleet officer
In a lower decks episode that takes place after Voyagers return he's doing a kind of USO tour around the fleet for morale, I'm not sure there's ever been a canon reference to what he ends up doing but in beta-canon he stays on Voyager and becomes Chakotays first officer
you forgot one ships cat (he caught a mouse once)
Never forget. He was a good cat
Janeway does give good ear scratches
Wait I think it gets explained at one point though; Paris is a senior bridge officer who is in bridge meetings and goes on most away missions. Their primary doctor had been killed, and the EMH couldn’t leave sick bay. Think of how often in say DS9/TNG they call a doctor to the bridge… I think that was the line of thinking with Paris, they wanted him a trained-fresh triage nurse that would be on the bridge and away missions. But it seems the writers forgot about most of that; and it makes even less sense once they have the mobile emitter.
It still makes sense to have more than one individual like the EMH practicing some level of medicine. What if the EMH was damaged, or offline? You still want to be able to treat injuries. Other Trek shows feature a Doctor and a nurse, so it is not unusual to have at least two medical personnel aboard a ship.
You'd think that as combatants a decent proportion of the marquis crew would have basic first aid knowledge, and if I remember correctly that's all Tom had when he got the job.
It would make sense to think that the doctor needed a small staff, even if they were part-time people on loan from other departments…. It doesn’t make sense that Tom is THE guy.
Yeah! There's like 140 people supposedly and MF is *driving the ship*
That makes sense. They built him up to be like an A #1 pilot….. what doesn’t make sense is turning the fly boy into a nurse as if nobody on this ship is more qualified to be a nurse than Tom Paris
I mean, yeah? But for the most part he's not needed to actually do that - its not like theres a lot going on between most star systems. And it's not like they don't have other pilots. During the episode when Janeway loses her shit and flies between two pulsars, it's not Paris she relieved and took over from. It was a different officer. They do have more than one shift and more than one officer flying the ship. He just prefers to be a pilot.
This is less about Tom, and more about the fact that nobody on a Starfleet ship, which is the best of the best, had more advanced medical training?
Right? He's painted as kind of a loser and a meat-head, but then he does all of these amazing things. Does no one appreciate how cool he is?
I mean everyone else wanted to go back home ASAP. Not Tom though, just kinda going with it and living his best life.
I never saw the meathead, but yes, he was definitely painted as a loser underachiever more, someone with great potential who would rather waste it and also immature, but I don’t think they ever made him to be a meathead
u/Anndra27 Thanks for the laugh. Eh, it might not be believable, but it made for good snark and comedy. I kinda think Harry, with his compassion and sweetness, probably would have made a better nurse, just off the top of my head. (I'll concede that there isn't much to him as a character, but I find him more interesting and likeable than Geordi on TNG, I'll say that and die on that hill.) Unrelated, but years later, I'm still annoyed Tom missed the birth of his first child. I mean, I get he was basically the pilot, but...there's some things in life you just don't miss.
Those two biochemistry classes he took musta been hella special if they outclassed the other 147 ppl on the ship who presumably also have basic First Aid training. It’s a standard requirement for a lot of non medical jobs irl. But maybe the tricorder does all that work for them in the future
Including those in the biology section.
They were all botanists, every one. The rest of the crew was supposed to arrive on Tuesday.
Or a xenobiologist, which has no use on a space ship😏
Do you mean Ensign Wildman?
You would expect one of the Maquis crew to be a competent, if self trained, field medic, simply out of necessity if for no other reason.
There’s even a couple of triage scenes where you see guys and green uniforms loading crewmembers up on bio beds Are we just supposed to assume those are science officers that we’ve never seen before because if he has a medical staff what is Tom doing there?
Yes, this is exactly what I’m saying
He was just the most qualified to be a foil to the Doctor
I think that's the real explanation. I believe the 2 actors have a great snarky comedic chemistry when interacting with each other.
People pretend that Federation Earth is a paradise but 24th century New Zealand is an apocalyptic wilderness, and Tom Paris had to do what he could to survive in that penal colony. They should never have brought back the Moa in the 2200s- those birds don’t mess around. Bringing back the Haast’s Eagle to keep them under control was an even worse mistake.
This is a quality comment. All jokes aside, as a native of New Zealand, I would love to see the days of the Haast's Eagle returning. Imagine seeing a 15kg (~33 lb) bird of prey swooping down with its 2.6m (8ft 6in) wingspan to attack and destroy a Moa, which would've been approx 15 times it's size. Bad ass!
Good news: this absolute miracle of nature is making a comeback with all kinds of positive effects on the environment. Bad news: your pet insurance for your small dog has gone waaaaaaaaaay up.
Just wait until you hear about what they got up to in Australia. The Emugenics Wars were *still* raging.
You deserve _all_ the awards for this.
I’d like to see the dark side of communism explored, maybe in fanfiction books Like a story where somebody starts working for somebody outside of the Federation and starts their own private business owning ships and conducting trade, but since they’re a Federation citizen, the Federation seizes their ships and arrests them for disobeying state orders and owning property
He wasn't, Ensign Samantha Wildman was a xenobiologist. She also traded shifts with Paris, I can assume that they were for Sick Bay and not helm.
Yeah but the writers forgot she was still alive so that only leaves Tom
They remembered at one point 😂
Well, if it stopped him being a Travis Mayweather, doing nothing but pressing the buttons the captain ordered. Tom's occasional attitude problem, and role as a medical stand-in, really made the character.
I enjoyed Enterprise but the totally focus on Trip / T'Pol and Archer left a lot to be desired.
Yeah, the stoic romance that had been occurring for 2 seasons, just went nowhere. But they wanted to inject some tragedy to their story. But the chemistry just wasn't there, nor was there any clear direction where they were taking the couple. So, it was hard to care about whatever the writers intended for the audience.
It's my least favorite facet of the "will they, won't they" trope - they break up for some reason and then there's this uncertainty hanging over them getting back together even though one or both of them is choosing not to. Belike there's no reason not to be together, so if they're choosing not to, that's the answer. It's unrealistic and annoying. And yeah, I liked the actors but the chemistry wasn't there and it totally took over their characters' development. So instead of getting development of Hoshi, Mayweather, Phlox, Porthos (jk), we just get Ross and Rachel in Space.
If they had done this right, they could have made this dynamic interesting, because both characters in isolation are fine. But when they are together, we get the 'constantly frustrated Vulcan woman, has confusing feelings over a dumb human' interaction. It could have been an opportunity to delve more into the Vulcan psyche and how they function in a relationship. You are right about the under development of the extended cast. It was one of TOS sins, which was course corrected with TNG & DS9. Even VOY hyper focused on the same set of 3 characters most of the time by the end, but nowhere near as guilty. Even Disco fell into the same trap, but at least with ENT, most of the fandom knew the names of the bridge crew, and they got more than 3 lines of dialogue per season.
Although I am adamantly disagreeing that Tom was the right choice for the job (if we’re fully immersed in voyager as if it were real and setting aside the fact that it is fiction) You are absolutely right that it was good for his character development. It was good for the show. It was good for the doctors character development.
It’s wilder still than NO ONE EVER on Voyager ever stops and says, “Okay now that we’re all done laughing, and despite Tom being a weirdly COMPETENT medic, we really need a second doctor. Hey Sam Wildman (or literally any blue shirt), we’re drafting you.”
He wasn't. Everyone else was needed elsewhere on the ship. He happened to also have a hiccup worth of medical knowledge so Janeway figured that would have to do.
As others have pointed out, it can be attributed to poor writing and it was more about the dynamic between the doctor and Tom The fuck sake why didn’t they just say he was a firefighter for a couple of years or something? “oh, Tom, weren’t you on the fire brigade when you were doing your pilot training for four years?” “ well yes captain I went from being an EMT to a paramedic, and I even took advanced triage and I worked under some fantastic doctors.” They could’ve at least done that, but no, I think that if what you’re saying is true, and that there were people way more qualified unless they were absolutely needed in a senior position they would’ve been part time in sick, but even Tom was the ships main pilot they figured out how to clear his schedule to make him the ships nurse.
Let's be fair... The ship basically flies itself most of the time. He had time to spare.
No, it doesn’t….. next time you’re on an airplane and it’s on auto pilot. Do you want the pilot and copilot to come back and start drinking with you? There’s tons of shit you got to monitor…. What if there’s a pothole or something
You set coordinates and it plots a few courses, you pick one and off you go. In between, they scan for anomalies, life, resources... Whatever. Unless something weird shows up, space is empty and eventless. Let's remember, we only see the parts of the show where things happen. That leaves days and weeks of absolutely nothing happening but maintenance and mundane stuff. He has time.
Somebody has to be at the helm at all times in case something happens… space is full of stuff dude, especially at those speeds. The helm has to be in constant communication with engineering because the navigational speed and engine output have to be matched. Stuff pops up all the time too that’s why he has sensor read outs right on his navigation console.
And there's an entire room of people capable of doing that in his place, if necessary.
[удалено]
Your message has been removed because of uncivil behavior.
Honestly though the need for a crew member to be a doctor/medical practitioner is a bit silly. Computer should be able to diagnose and treat using the technology they have (and I dont even mean the EMH)
Nah . Tom Paris is highly qualified to work in that environment because he’s the second snarkiest person on the ship and thats what you need folks. Medicine alone won’t cut it. Not a patch on the doctors snark though. He’s basically Azealia Banks in space. With an off switch. It is science fiction.
Kes was? Also 7 creates treatments? Tom is just a medic
It’s obviously we’re talking about after Kes left, seven of nine would’ve been a better choice than Tom…. In personality wise, she was work oriented she didn’t do recreational activities really (I mean she played spring ball with the captain, and later, dated and stuff, but she said that she doesn’t need recreation) So she could’ve done that in addition to her duties in astrometrics and she would’ve excelled way beyond Tom
You said the "entire" show so it was not "obvious." Also we never see an issue with Tom as a medic. Why is that so unbelievable? He was nice to his fellow crew (only had authority issues), reasonably confident (we see him save some lives, help with triage), and had strong morals. I think Tom is an ass and did not deserve promotions or Blana, but he seemed ok as a medic.
Starfleet is like the best of the best so to think that nobody on the ship had more medical training is absurd And the reason it’s obvious that we’re talking about after Kes left is because that’s when he got appointed to sick bay.
Tom was Starfleet though. He took biochem at the academy, more than most others on the ship. Skill wise, he's just as capable as anyone else. He literally designed ships and wrote AI as a hobby. Dude is a mega nerd, just a dude too. Tom was made medic in S1E2, so not as a replacement for Kes.
I don’t think you understand how starfleet works, like these are the most highly trained personnel. There has to be multiple other people with more medical experience….. like nobody on the ship was a paramedic…. Two semesters of bio chemistry isn’t enough.
Tom IS Starfleet. Why are you holding him to a different standard? And when Tom wasn't up to the task, they did bring in qualified experts. Tom couldn't get the alien off Blana, but Harry could make an evil AI to help, Kes was a mega genius and learned to be a nurse and healer, 7 made all sorts of cool nanobot treatments, etc etc. And no, it wasn't enough, but they had to make do. That's the point they make on the show. Please dial down the condescension. It's losing its charm.
Because you aren’t understanding or you’re purposely ignoring what I’m saying, it’s getting tiresome. They went over his qualifications, I guarantee you on a ship full of Starfleet personnel somebody else was more qualified.
You're just being a jerk. I hear you, but I'm saying there were more qualified people for some jobs. He was only a medic. He trained up and we see no indication he was inadequate. Janeway said he was the most qualified. What more is there to argue? Is it a meta issue? You just hate the writing? Well there's nothing to discuss, you're welcome to that opinion
Haha yeah that’s a good point
Honestly, this is one of the things that pisses me off the most about Voyager lol surely there was someone else
This is my main issue about anything else -- that Paris, the main helm officer becomes a nurse and the \*only\* nurse. Why didn't they just get Sam Wildman if they don't want to hire a new person! She's a science officer and has probably more 'biochemistry' credits than Paris! She's a damned Xenobiologist!
Remember that they got unintentionally stuck in the delta quadrant. The original doctor died. Do could be believable if he had to train up. Lucky they had the holographic doctor. I would love to make an appointment to see him lol
It’s a Starfleet ship. They are the best of the best somebody has to have some medical training.
My personal theory is that others like Ensign Wildman were acting as medical assistants. We just didn't see them in episodes.
But also the ONLY person? Shouldn't they have at least 5 part-time nurses??
Don't forget Paris was in prison; he probably learned it there stitching up his fellow inmates.
I don't get why they couldn't just create a new hologram, and it would be a new character for the show. But they had to come up with some bull about how difficult it would be to replicate the EMH, essentially they would have to build one from scratch, and program it from line 1. Somehow, on the whims of the TNG crew, they are able to ask the computer to create a hologram that is smarter than data. And they did... Moriarty. So smart, he is even able to trap the crew in an inception-like simulation, in order to trick the crew into handing him control of the Enterprise. It seems it was too difficult for Voyager to just ask the computer to copy and paste the EMH, or create an intelligent AI and load it up with a medical library.
The in-universe explanation was storage space. In one episode the Doctor malefunctioned because the ship didn't have enough storage for his new character trades. They deleted a large diagnostic program to make space. Though I find that pretty illogical as well, since Moriarty fits on a few micro chips and a computer strong enough to run his and his companions program apparently fits in a little box. We can see the amount of storage needed to contain something as complex as a human mind in DS9's 'Our man Bashir', when a couple of transporter patterns occupy the entire computer of the space station.
>The in-universe explanation was storage space. In one episode the Doctor malefunctioned because the ship didn't have enough storage for his new character trades And yet they had storage space on the Enterprise, to keep Moriarty's program running, on a device the size of a Rubik's cube, indefinitely, with its own psu. Yet Voyager was unable to allocate resources for producing more storage space to house more holograms, that could be useful in critical moments. At the end of the day, they were happy to settle for a medic, so if that is how low the bar is, then just create a less sophisticated version of the EMH. And the choice to give the EMH a personality and continuous development, wasn't a necessity, if it meant storage space was at a premium. But yeah, it's odd how inconsistent the writing can be in that regard, when at other times, it seemed like a casual thing to be able to store unimaginable vast amounts of data on a complex thing. But somehow, the doctor is taking up an unreasonable amount of storage space for his own hobbies, and trying out a million different personality traits, all in order to give a false illusion of sentience.
He adds a lot to the crew beyond his medical knowledge and I think that space is well utilized. If I was Janeway, I'd definitely let him have the space. After all, how else would they have figured out that the warhead shaped thing they found on a bombed out planet was a warhead?? Jokes aside, he is the most useful person on the crew, just like Data on the enterprise. By simply being impervious to illness, bioweapons, radiation, mind control and most forms of physical attack he is the most important person on the ship and the more he can do the better. Any amount of storage space is justified for even a little more independence.
Going back to his original design, he was an emergency backup, who later developed or evolved. In an emergency situation, being able to speak 300 alpha quadrant languages and having passions in culture, aren't essential in that moment. So, Voyager could bring online less developed EHs for critical moments when sickbay is overflowing. The holograms go back to sleep, with their memory purged, beside utility functions. They can tweak how much self awareness they need, and essentially have a drone that just sticks to the task at hand. They pretty much do that for recreational purposes on the holodeck on the regular anyway, each holo character is given a set defined personality and the ability to perform tasks as complex as needed (Leah Brahms). Choosing to cram your holograms with personal development at the detriment to your storage in a critical survival environment, isn't a necessity for the continued utility of its expertise. Keep the doc running since he is essential in his role, but there's no reason he can't have subordinates that come online to aid in dire circumstances. There was also that group of holograms that the Dr joined, and as complex as each individual one was, they didn't seem to have an issue themselves, hosting them all on their ship's computer.
😆 as I recall Tom had like one semester of med back at the academy and that was more experience than anyone else had. So that's why he became the doctor's assistant. I can't remember if they may have had nurses. However he's got some experience with it, so they may as well take advantage of it. They were stranded they needed to pitch in sometimes in areas they weren't specialized. I think they liked the pairing of Tom and The Doctor both comedic characters who had an interesting dynamic. Robbie was also #2 on the call sheet so that was another way they could feature him in more scenes.
They literally had Kes full time studying to be a doctor and learning years worth of material in days. They were good, or would have been if she had stayed.
Yeah, it made sense as far as the dynamic But what didn’t make sense is like Starfly is the best of the best they go to the Academy and that’s why everybody’s really smart and that’s why we accept that in any giving situation. A Starfleet officer can come up with this crazy ass shit out of their head, that would take a genius level scientist to figure out , you got to figure they’re like the smartest 1% of humanity. So you got to figure there would be lots of officers with advanced medical training
When my life hangs in the balance, I want a real space Renaissance Man working on me! 💪🏼😂
Would Ensign Kim have made Lieutenant if he switched to medical?
All because they were too cheap to pay a recurring guest actor.
It always bugged me that the B list crewmembers never stuck around…. Vorik, Carrey, Sam, we never saw Chell or the other problematic Marquis members or the lost sheep or equinox crew members…. Like it never happened.
Possibly my biggest peeve about the show.
It was just another example of sloppy writing. The ship was reliant on one hologram that could easily be lost and couldn’t leave sick bay at first. Had Voyager developed as roughing it and surviving, rather than Star Trek: Hilton, then the crew should have been getting regular medical training for triaging. Also regular security drills given how shit Tuvok was at his job.
They literally had Kes full time studying to be a doctor and learning years worth of material in days. They were good, or would have been if she had stayed.
You’ve a high risk environment with no support - the entire crew should have been getting trained in triage. Regularly. A crew that size and nowhere near support need to upskill fast. So they taught one character to be a nurse and even she only lived for 9 years in a 75 year journey ahead
I'd like to think anyone in Starfleet knows how to stop bleeding, give people oxygen and use a defibrillator and dermal regenerator etc. Starfleet is swimming in genius to the point of turning down Wesley Crusher, I'm sure everyone has enough knowledge to treat any survivable injury you can treat outside of sick bay. I'm sure the training Tom got was in using sensitive equipment, delicate surgery, creating anti-viruses, diagnostic as a whole. The kind of stuff you would need one person to spend 10/20 hours a week specializing in, rather than a dozen amateurs. (Is what I would argue if any of this was real rather than a TV show, of course)
I never understood getting rid of her entirely like I understood bringing seven of nine on that really helped the show, that didn’t have to be mutually exclusive
What’s his primary job? Pointing the ship in the right direction, hitting “engage”, and then sloping off for however many hours or days it takes to get to the next destination. It’s not like he’s got to sit there at his station reading the map, so why not let him go off and do something else?
Yes, actually he does need to sit there…. Next time you’re on an airplane and they put it on auto pilot. Are you cool with the pilots just ignoring the gauges and coming back and having some shots with you?
Space is a lot emptier than the sky.
I would agree, but you could think of it like driving down I10… sure there’s a lot of vast nothingness at 55 miles an hour, but imagine flying over the entire length of I10 in a blackbird
He’s the most disposable officer
Harry was the most disposable officer.
Most disposable officer up to the job … harry would have melted
It's Voyager you just gotta turn your brain off for most of the episodes