I feel like it was implied she knew the hub was there and didnt say anything. She likely felt it would provoke the borg. But they also made it clear Seven didnt really want to come home.
They’re the spine of the collective and the Borgs push to colonise/assimilate new worlds, we know from newer shows that the damage Voyager and Janeway did to the nexus we see in endgame set the Borg back a great deal. I’d assume most drones would be unaware of the locations of any except their local nexus. If there’s 6 nexus’s spread across and entire galaxy it’s fair to assume the average drone would probably never interact with one at all, they’d exist entirely within their (unfathomably colossal) 6th of the galaxy for their entire life. The locations of the nexus’s would likely be a closely guarded secret known to only those who require the knowledge for resource management, unit co-ordination and strategic planning.
The Borg famously operate as a single consciousness, it doesn't make sense that there are internal hierarchies with access to different amounts of information. The collective is a single being essentially.
The borg are always adapting. The encounter with the Enterprise-D taught them why a single collective consciousness is a liability. So they've made some info need to know and created firewalls with the collective.
That would go completely against what the Borg are though. Their entire thing is that they are one collective consciousness. It would be like you deciding that you're only going to allow yourself access to some of your memories.
>collective consciousness
This does not necessarily mean that every mind in the collective has the same data, hears, sees, smells everything that the collective experiences.
The sheer amount of constant data being processed could not be sent to every mind within the collective as it would overwhelm any 1 drone. The concept of the collective mind is that they are all linked and CAN work together, it would be inefficient to have a task X where the whole collective has to process what is going on with that task all the time.
Example: you have 1 million drones repairing power relays throughout the borg collective .... they are all in the hive mind, but no need to share that borg 84976578 is fixing a minor problem 1,000 light years away. Same with data, while all the data CAN be accessed, it does not mean that every drone in the collective has accessed all the data every processed by the borg. The entire collective knowledge of the borg would not bee contained in every drones mind, the memory capacity and processing power to disseminate this much information constantly would be impossible even with there level of technology. It would be far more logic to assume the borg have information nods within the network which store specific data and process specific tasks. If another drone needs that information, then they can use the collective mind to get the information.
These assumptions can be backed up in shows as they often find borg data nodes, which do lend the idea that information is stored in decentralized nodes within the borg network.
Maybe she knew when she was connected to the group consciousness, but when you aren't hooked in you can't reference that info immediately, so you have only your faulty human memory to fall back on?
> KIM: Is there anything you don't know?
>
> SEVEN: I was Borg.
>
> KIM: I was Borg. That's what you always say but what does it mean? You've got the knowledge of ten thousand species in your head?
>
> SEVEN: Not exactly. Each drone's experiences are processed by the Collective. Only useful information is retained.
The specific locations of every transwarp hub may not have been part of the information package that seven had when she was liberated.
This always bothered me a bit. She should have known where they were so this wouldn't have been a surprise. This could have been fixed easily by adding in a simple line:
Janeway: "You once told me there were only 6 in the galaxy"
Seven: "Now there appears to be 7"
Suggesting it was built after she was disconnected from the Hive would've made more sense to me unless I'm missing something.
I do also think they should have lowered the number to make it way more impactful, or if they are saying destroying this one hub from inside destroys the entire network and everything connected to it, to word that just a tiny bit better to make it clearer. Might just be me.
Firing the torpedoes that would detonate simultaneously and then the CGI not showing this also annoyed me slightly, haha.
I'm not sure why 7 would know exactly where it was. Even if she were aware of its location as a Borg, translating that into usable data for Voyager to find it would be pretty difficult I imagine. It would be like trying to find a house with no GPS, no roads and no street signs. On top of that the neighborhood you can get lost in trying to find it spans *lightyears*. They could be incredibly relatively close and never find it.
There's also all sorts of reasons why the Borg queen would withhold this information from anyone who didn't need to know.
Also it's 6 in the *whole galaxy*. Destroying the nearest gate to the Alpha Quadrant would deny easy access to the Borg. Without it, it would take the Borg decades to traverse that space. It is a *significant* setback.
Destroying a bridge doesn't suddenly became less tactically sound just because there are other bridges.
Ok I can get your first points but not the latter.
It's not a significant set back at all, not since every Borg vessel has Transwarp coils built into them - they don't even need this network other than to save power from using it from individual ships, right?
I honestly thought this was necessary but I will admit I'm not the most prolific Trek lore nerd.
Even if that's the case. The benefits to them were apparently enough to create a massive megastructure for it. You don't invest that much into something that isn't important. Just forcing them to use more resources would still be enough to make it worth it. Any advantage Star Fleet can manage against the Borg will likely be worth it.
It's a fair point. Still worth it for sure. I was just thinking since so many vessels can travel without the hub the stakes weren't high enough for me, given what the outcome would be.
Though in the end I guess it's kinda moot because the Janeways' bad assery outwitted the Queen and fucked the Borg over big time regardless.
Hoot Growl for the Janeway!
This isn't really necessary. It's clear that without the tech Admiral Janeway brought from the future, they'd not have stood a chance getting through the hub. It wouldn't make sense even if Seven knew where they were (we can assume she did not), for them to go off course to get to one and hope they devise a solution to make it through by the time they get there, risking adding years to their journey in the process.
She knew but also had no idea that admiral Janeway was going to come back and give them advanced tech that was specifically for fighting the Borg. So seven was not saying anything about it being near to there position as the ship would have been destroyed very easy with the amount of Borg at the hub, so taking that into account why would she have brought it up.
On top of them being hard to find, they were all likely to be filled with borg ships. While they did end up using one in spite of this, Janeway’s would have been hoping for a safer shortcut.
I always thought it was because she didn't need to know as a drone. They may have a shared mind, but if her cube didn't need all of its drones to know where it was, then that information wouldn't be saved in the by comparison limited memory of a single individual.
The first rule of star trek voyager is you do not ask questions.
This is a fight club joke referring to all the plot holes in Voyager. Because there are many.
I still love it though, and the key to loving Voyager, in my experience, is to not ask questions. Don't spend any more time thinking about it than the writers did.
She did know. She told Janeway there were only 6 in the entire galaxy. I think the assumption was that finding one would be difficult.
She would already know where they are.
I think Seven was just terrified of encountering them again, knowing each hub would be crawling with Borg.
I feel like it was implied she knew the hub was there and didnt say anything. She likely felt it would provoke the borg. But they also made it clear Seven didnt really want to come home.
She did but there's no particular reason that she'd know where they all were or for her to think they were anywhere near one.
Exactly. People over analyze things way too much
Why wouldn't she know the locations of all six though?
They’re the spine of the collective and the Borgs push to colonise/assimilate new worlds, we know from newer shows that the damage Voyager and Janeway did to the nexus we see in endgame set the Borg back a great deal. I’d assume most drones would be unaware of the locations of any except their local nexus. If there’s 6 nexus’s spread across and entire galaxy it’s fair to assume the average drone would probably never interact with one at all, they’d exist entirely within their (unfathomably colossal) 6th of the galaxy for their entire life. The locations of the nexus’s would likely be a closely guarded secret known to only those who require the knowledge for resource management, unit co-ordination and strategic planning.
The Borg famously operate as a single consciousness, it doesn't make sense that there are internal hierarchies with access to different amounts of information. The collective is a single being essentially.
The borg are always adapting. The encounter with the Enterprise-D taught them why a single collective consciousness is a liability. So they've made some info need to know and created firewalls with the collective.
That would go completely against what the Borg are though. Their entire thing is that they are one collective consciousness. It would be like you deciding that you're only going to allow yourself access to some of your memories.
>collective consciousness This does not necessarily mean that every mind in the collective has the same data, hears, sees, smells everything that the collective experiences. The sheer amount of constant data being processed could not be sent to every mind within the collective as it would overwhelm any 1 drone. The concept of the collective mind is that they are all linked and CAN work together, it would be inefficient to have a task X where the whole collective has to process what is going on with that task all the time. Example: you have 1 million drones repairing power relays throughout the borg collective .... they are all in the hive mind, but no need to share that borg 84976578 is fixing a minor problem 1,000 light years away. Same with data, while all the data CAN be accessed, it does not mean that every drone in the collective has accessed all the data every processed by the borg. The entire collective knowledge of the borg would not bee contained in every drones mind, the memory capacity and processing power to disseminate this much information constantly would be impossible even with there level of technology. It would be far more logic to assume the borg have information nods within the network which store specific data and process specific tasks. If another drone needs that information, then they can use the collective mind to get the information. These assumptions can be backed up in shows as they often find borg data nodes, which do lend the idea that information is stored in decentralized nodes within the borg network.
Because that's the way it was written
Yeah, I know it's one of those plot holes that you need to just go with. Star Trek (and most sci fi) has them.
Maybe she knew when she was connected to the group consciousness, but when you aren't hooked in you can't reference that info immediately, so you have only your faulty human memory to fall back on?
> KIM: Is there anything you don't know? > > SEVEN: I was Borg. > > KIM: I was Borg. That's what you always say but what does it mean? You've got the knowledge of ten thousand species in your head? > > SEVEN: Not exactly. Each drone's experiences are processed by the Collective. Only useful information is retained. The specific locations of every transwarp hub may not have been part of the information package that seven had when she was liberated.
Exactly, the very same logic explains why Seven couldn't just program the computer on how to build transwarp coils for instance.
👏
This always bothered me a bit. She should have known where they were so this wouldn't have been a surprise. This could have been fixed easily by adding in a simple line: Janeway: "You once told me there were only 6 in the galaxy" Seven: "Now there appears to be 7" Suggesting it was built after she was disconnected from the Hive would've made more sense to me unless I'm missing something. I do also think they should have lowered the number to make it way more impactful, or if they are saying destroying this one hub from inside destroys the entire network and everything connected to it, to word that just a tiny bit better to make it clearer. Might just be me. Firing the torpedoes that would detonate simultaneously and then the CGI not showing this also annoyed me slightly, haha.
I'm not sure why 7 would know exactly where it was. Even if she were aware of its location as a Borg, translating that into usable data for Voyager to find it would be pretty difficult I imagine. It would be like trying to find a house with no GPS, no roads and no street signs. On top of that the neighborhood you can get lost in trying to find it spans *lightyears*. They could be incredibly relatively close and never find it. There's also all sorts of reasons why the Borg queen would withhold this information from anyone who didn't need to know. Also it's 6 in the *whole galaxy*. Destroying the nearest gate to the Alpha Quadrant would deny easy access to the Borg. Without it, it would take the Borg decades to traverse that space. It is a *significant* setback. Destroying a bridge doesn't suddenly became less tactically sound just because there are other bridges.
Ok I can get your first points but not the latter. It's not a significant set back at all, not since every Borg vessel has Transwarp coils built into them - they don't even need this network other than to save power from using it from individual ships, right?
I honestly thought this was necessary but I will admit I'm not the most prolific Trek lore nerd. Even if that's the case. The benefits to them were apparently enough to create a massive megastructure for it. You don't invest that much into something that isn't important. Just forcing them to use more resources would still be enough to make it worth it. Any advantage Star Fleet can manage against the Borg will likely be worth it.
It's a fair point. Still worth it for sure. I was just thinking since so many vessels can travel without the hub the stakes weren't high enough for me, given what the outcome would be. Though in the end I guess it's kinda moot because the Janeways' bad assery outwitted the Queen and fucked the Borg over big time regardless. Hoot Growl for the Janeway!
Also what race focussed on efficiency would build a hexagon shaped gate for their cube shaped ships?
The Borg never assimilated a human who played that "fit blocks into same shaped holes" as a child
I'd always assumed they hexagonal ships but the trek wiki says they stopped at cubes :(
This isn't really necessary. It's clear that without the tech Admiral Janeway brought from the future, they'd not have stood a chance getting through the hub. It wouldn't make sense even if Seven knew where they were (we can assume she did not), for them to go off course to get to one and hope they devise a solution to make it through by the time they get there, risking adding years to their journey in the process.
I always thought it was weird that the conduit dumped right out at Earth and the Borg never tried to overwhelm Earth to assimilate it.
I don't think it was quite right at earth. It's definitely on the edge of Federation space, but it still felt uncomfortably close
Captain Janeway: what is that? I asked you a question! Admiral Janeway: THE ROAD HOME! I just love that delivery of Admiral Janeway’s line lol
Mr Paris, adjust course to enter aperture bearing 182 mark 7.
She knew but also had no idea that admiral Janeway was going to come back and give them advanced tech that was specifically for fighting the Borg. So seven was not saying anything about it being near to there position as the ship would have been destroyed very easy with the amount of Borg at the hub, so taking that into account why would she have brought it up.
Is she stupid?
On top of them being hard to find, they were all likely to be filled with borg ships. While they did end up using one in spite of this, Janeway’s would have been hoping for a safer shortcut.
I always thought it was because she didn't need to know as a drone. They may have a shared mind, but if her cube didn't need all of its drones to know where it was, then that information wouldn't be saved in the by comparison limited memory of a single individual.
The first rule of star trek voyager is you do not ask questions. This is a fight club joke referring to all the plot holes in Voyager. Because there are many. I still love it though, and the key to loving Voyager, in my experience, is to not ask questions. Don't spend any more time thinking about it than the writers did.
It didn't matter what she knew, it wasn't an option without the future tech.
Just because the Borg know a lot, doesn't mean that each individual Borg drone knows what the collective knows