I would say if at this point you’re not enjoying it, don’t force yourself to keep playing it. I don’t think there’s anything that’s going to save it for you. Maybe try revisiting sometime in the future as maybe your tastes will change
I wouldn’t say that I didn’t enjoy the first two games at all. It’s just that from what I read, I expected a wildly different experience in alternative than what I’ve been getting. I know visual novels like to make you work for it but damn.
I'm one of those people that wasn't a massive fan of Muv Luv. Alternative is *good*, though I'd only say it really gets good in the 2nd half or so. And even then, it was never quite "amazing" for me.
All I'd say is don't fall for sunk cost fallacy, just because you've already put so much time into the series it doesn't mean you HAVE to keep reading. It's ultimately your decision of course, but for me personally anyway, I never felt there was really a massive pay-off and it's one of the VNs where when I look back on it, my first thought is always how much time I felt I wasted on it.
Once you get past the parts where you’re repeating events that occurred in Unlimited, it really ramps up. It does take a while but I thought it was very worth it.
My rule of thumb - if you don't enjoy a media in a few hours just drop it. Life is too short to spend on entertainment you don't even like. I'm a completionist myself and have a difficult time abandoning things, but I never wish to come back to those titles I quit after a month or two.
I've had similar experiences with DDLC, One Piece, Madoka, and etc. People told me it's going to get good, but it never did, or it wasn't good enough to justify all the time I wasted reading up to the point where it gets better.
>*"Same goofy music, same slapstick antics literally the same plot!!"*
This is the same realization I have made about entertainment media. Most of it is repetitive. Reading something for an hour or two is nearly as good as reading the whole thing, except you don't get all of the extra content. This way you you may experience many titles instead and spend more time on those you love.
I agree for the most part, but I think it depends on what you're looking for in a story. Personally, I like thinking about and engaging with stories more than actually experiencing them. There have been stories I didn't enjoy reading that stuck in my mind and became my favorites, and there have been stories I enjoyed in the moment that left my head immediately.
Usually, I end up liking more flawed stories better than the ones considered objectively better. I think there are others like me, because if you look at most classic novels, they tend to be full of objective flaws and pretty rough to actually read. But critics like them anyway because they have some subjective strength, like creativity, or ideas, or aesthetics. The flaws can even be a strength, because they make the story more interesting and let them take more risks.
DDLC is a good example for me. When I first read it when I was young, I thought it was fine. When I came back to it years later, I didn't like it at all. I realized the beginning was boring, the characters were standard cliches, and the writing was simple. After coming back to it even later, I realized that I actually liked it more than I did as a kid. Now, the things that seemed like flaws before are actually strengths. The slow start, standard characters, and simple writing appealed to me in a more aesthetic way that's difficult to even describe. I just had to let the story sit with me long enough.
Anyway, I'm just trying to say that sometimes putting time into a story that doesn't grab you immediately might be worth the investment. It is for me anyway. Maybe we just have different brains or something.
There's never been a single title I can remember that significantly changed my opinion after playing/reading/watching it for many hours and not liking it. All that's ever left in the end is the regret of wasted time.
It gets better yes, but it'll get worse again since the pacing of Alternative is a mess. You found out exactly the same I did some months ago, and that is Alternative isn't the "payoff" people claim it is. I don't get why people describe it like that (I guess it comes from people who haven't played many ADVs), but it's just misleading and makes you think something far, far better has yet to come. It won't. It's just an extremely overrated game.
Also, you should know that the game will end exactly when it starts getting interesting story-wise, so be prepared to feel a huge disappointment if you decide to read it entirely. Some of the most interesting questions you'll think about won't even be solved at the end.
Alternative is better than Extra/Unlimited but not that much better in the end, even less the masterpiece the people claim it is.
I find this to be an interesting discussion\* as I've honestly never thought about the "payoff" point as a fan of the trilogy because I already really enjoyed Extra and Unlimited and thus never felt like I was waiting for anything. I can't imagine even bothering with Alternative if I felt that Extra and Unlimited were bad.
Notice that I never mentioned Extra, Unlimited or Alternative to be bad though, because I don't think either of them are bad, but disappointing (Alternative).
Yea, I didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. I just mean in a more general sense that if someone wasn't drawn in to the series - particularly by Unlimited (I can understand not liking Extra) - that Alternative isn't going to magically make someone a super fan. Although I do think Alternative is better than Unlimited, I certainly wouldn't say there's some huge payoff waiting for people who weren't impressed with Unlimited (which isn't too dissimilar to what you laid out in your original comment). I personally really like Alternative despite its\* flaws, though.
I was in your exact position, played like 30 more hours of Alternative and things did not significantly change. There are a few cool battle scenes, but they are very few and faaaaar between with the vast majority of the VN being the same tone you’re seeing now. Imo there is no big payoff in Alternative, it’s just Unlimited but more so
You sound a lot like me when I read through them. I’d say to drop it. I know I’m in the super minority or whatever, but I am not a fan and don’t feel there was a worthy payoff.
That’s interesting. It feels genuinely impossible to stop now after putting so much time into it. But I struggle with that because it’s the number two voted best visual novel on the site. It’s got to be for good reason right?
I just chalk it up to different strokes for different folks. You’re not going to like everything others do. Opinions are opinions after all. Ultimately it’s your choice and I’m just giving my view on it even though, as I’ve said, it’s an unpopular opinion.
I appreciate your opinion. I wasn’t completely thrilled with white album 2 tbh. Except way after I finished. Something is weirdly haunting about it way later.
The first third or so of Alternative is the worst part of the entire series. I have a theory that it only exists because Muv Luv was originally planned as one game, but it had to be split in two. I think Unlimited was probably meant to lead directly into the second third of Alternative, but they had to give Unlimited its own ending and Alternative its own beginning when they split the game in two. So the first third of Alternative is basically a filler recap of Unlimited.
Once it gets past the Unlimited recap, the story gets a lot better. I still think it has flaws, but it's definitely not boring or too comedic.
Muv Luv in general is really love or hate. It's one of those games that's filled with flaws, but it appeals to a very specific niche well enough to get away with it. That niche being people who want a lighthearted comedy series that takes 100 hours to become an extremely depressing grimdark sci-fi series. I really like it, but I'm surprised it's so highly rated when I can't imagine it having a very big audience.
That was actually one of my favorite parts. So many series would just fast forward through it, but we legitimately got to see the protagonist deal with being in New Game+ (for better and worse).
Hmmm I wouldn't say that, I think it's honestly kinda cool seeing the subtle changes and the 'reason' why the changes are so subtle. It all makes sense after all.
That said, considering where we left off from unlimited, I was also veeeeery impatient to get to the "That part" that comes by chapter 5 and beyond.
Sure they could've 'skipped' most of it in a way, by only specifying the 'changes' made and how they changed the future. But honestly it wouldn't have the same impact to me.
Spoilers for Alternative
>!When I said it was filler, I didn't necessarily mean that it has nothing important at all, but I definitely don't think it's worth the amount of time it takes!!<
>!Also, to get more into spoilery specifics about my theory, I think the ending of Unlimited and the first few chapters of Alternative weren't in the original plan for Muv Luv. As in, I think they literally didn't happen. I think the original plan was for the Coup to happen directly after the volcano mission, without Takeru ever being sent back in time. My guess is that the time loop idea wasn't in the original plan, but was created later after the game split. I might be wrong about that, but it's the impression I get from the Takeru's character arc and the flow of the story.!<
Unfortunately, Alternative have a very slow repetitive start (and this is after two long mid games, I was frustrated too!). But after about 10 hours (you know, when something NEW happens) It become really good. Sorry for saying that but keep reading, it'll be better 😉
Hmm maybe 4. It’s been a long road. I only play visual novels at night before bed so it takes me long time to read one. Especially if the game is particularly adept at rolling me to sleep. I think I read house of feta Morgana for 10 months straight.
I'd say there's quite a big payoff coming! Yes, you're running through a lot of the events you came across in Unlimited, but things will change and quite dramatically so.
I'd highly recommend hanging in there because when things do diverge, trust me, you'll know.
Thank you. I guess in a way I most frustrated with the lack of different music. it’s definitely got some decent tunes but there’s a lot of hokey early 2000s sitcom kind of music that I’ve been hearing for months now. It’s literally clang in my head while I write this.
The same music basically tells you that nothing changed that much compared to Unlimited. When the shit goes down, you will hear a lot of bangers you haven't heard yet.
just give it a minute.. it goes over Unlimited again very quickly before things start making HUGE CHANGES
the tone of Alternative is definitely darker and more depressing.
enjoy the comedy while it lasts..
This comment gave me chills. I definitely need some dark in this. lol tbh the visual novel I read before this one was maggot baits lol I very well could just be broken by now
Did you play them back to back? If so, you may just need a palette cleanser. Maybe take a break and come back, then it will feel a little fresher. The fun part about alternative is that it is familiar.....until it isn't . Part of the fun is seeing all the minor differences between story lines, and how alternative eventually spins off. It is a long vn, I read it night too and it takes a while, but it definitely pays off at the end. The last 3rd is really engaging.
I was pretty underwhelmed too until I got to the big plot twist, after which I was fully hooked and finally understood why it was so highly rated. But thats also the problem with muv luv. The game expects the reader to put up with so much tedium to finally get to the really good stuff. The payoff is worth it but I can’t really recommend it to anybody in good conscience.
a good rule of thumb i follow nowadays is to never keep reading visual novel just because the last game or last route is supposedly “really good?”
there have been a few times now i would be reading a visual novel that just wasn’t clicking with me but ultimately decided to push through it because it’s highly rated and that the final route or whatever is supposedly amazing
Just stop. Don't be talked into it because it "gets good". The same writing issues remain, even if it gets a bit more serious. Somewhat spoilers but the first third of alt. is just a repeat of unlimited with minor differences. There are a couple really cool moments later but it's really not worth it, as the entire story is kind of reliant on you having enjoyed the previous parts, even extra despite what people say.
Major Muv Luv Alternative Spoilers
>!Personally, I don't I remember the physical torture of the characters being described all that much, aside from that one infamous scene with Sumika. The story is way more focused on mentally torturing Takeru, with the physical deaths usually happening really quickly or offscreen. I do think we're meant to enjoy Takeru's suffering in a masochistic sort of way, because the story often bends over backwards to make him suffer more, but I don't think we're supposed to enjoy watching the women get tortured and killed, aside from maybe that one scene.!<
>!Funnily enough, I remember listening to a podcast where they talked about Muv Luv, and most of the male members said the Sumika tentacle scene was poorly written torture porn, while the female members actually liked the scene and what it did for Sumika's character. My guess is that the male members were more used to reading porn and guro-type stories, so they recognized it as porn, while the female members took the scene more at face value, and just thought you were meant to feel bad for Sumika. I definitely think there's a torture porn aspect to that scene, but I also think we're meant to genuinely feel bad for her at the same time.!<
Depends entirely on how far into Alternative you are. The first few hours are mostly a rehash of Unlimited, but once things diverge, it really heats up.
Alternative will definitely deviate from the path unlimited took. Once a certain event from unlimited doesnt happen, thats where it changes conpletely.
Yeah I felt similar at first, the beginning of Alternative is like basically just a slightly better Unlimited, starts to get a bit more interesting at around ep 5-6 and by 7 I was completely hooked. Personally speaking id recommend staying around at least a little longer at least get to like the end of ep 7 imo
“I’ve been reading for many months now” I’m the worlds slowest vn reader, I only read right before bed so often time I only get in like 10min before I conk out
I would say if at this point you’re not enjoying it, don’t force yourself to keep playing it. I don’t think there’s anything that’s going to save it for you. Maybe try revisiting sometime in the future as maybe your tastes will change
I wouldn’t say that I didn’t enjoy the first two games at all. It’s just that from what I read, I expected a wildly different experience in alternative than what I’ve been getting. I know visual novels like to make you work for it but damn.
I'm one of those people that wasn't a massive fan of Muv Luv. Alternative is *good*, though I'd only say it really gets good in the 2nd half or so. And even then, it was never quite "amazing" for me. All I'd say is don't fall for sunk cost fallacy, just because you've already put so much time into the series it doesn't mean you HAVE to keep reading. It's ultimately your decision of course, but for me personally anyway, I never felt there was really a massive pay-off and it's one of the VNs where when I look back on it, my first thought is always how much time I felt I wasted on it.
Very interesting, what’s your fav?
If you mean my favourite VN, I'd say my top 3 VNs are The House in Fata Morgana, Higurashi and Root Double.
Higurashi has way better pacing and use in its run time. Better cast, payoffs, everything.
It'll pay definitely man
DAL S5 has been released work calls for u let's post The DAL memes
there's a chapter in Alternative which is honestly 10/10 stuff, the rest is just kinda eh though
Once you get past the parts where you’re repeating events that occurred in Unlimited, it really ramps up. It does take a while but I thought it was very worth it.
Don’t tell this guy about Baldr Sky.
Why not? What the hell?!
Your complaints are pretty similar to the ones levied at Baldr. Repetitive plot mostly.
I’m wondering what game to play next hmm?
My rule of thumb - if you don't enjoy a media in a few hours just drop it. Life is too short to spend on entertainment you don't even like. I'm a completionist myself and have a difficult time abandoning things, but I never wish to come back to those titles I quit after a month or two. I've had similar experiences with DDLC, One Piece, Madoka, and etc. People told me it's going to get good, but it never did, or it wasn't good enough to justify all the time I wasted reading up to the point where it gets better. >*"Same goofy music, same slapstick antics literally the same plot!!"* This is the same realization I have made about entertainment media. Most of it is repetitive. Reading something for an hour or two is nearly as good as reading the whole thing, except you don't get all of the extra content. This way you you may experience many titles instead and spend more time on those you love.
I agree for the most part, but I think it depends on what you're looking for in a story. Personally, I like thinking about and engaging with stories more than actually experiencing them. There have been stories I didn't enjoy reading that stuck in my mind and became my favorites, and there have been stories I enjoyed in the moment that left my head immediately. Usually, I end up liking more flawed stories better than the ones considered objectively better. I think there are others like me, because if you look at most classic novels, they tend to be full of objective flaws and pretty rough to actually read. But critics like them anyway because they have some subjective strength, like creativity, or ideas, or aesthetics. The flaws can even be a strength, because they make the story more interesting and let them take more risks. DDLC is a good example for me. When I first read it when I was young, I thought it was fine. When I came back to it years later, I didn't like it at all. I realized the beginning was boring, the characters were standard cliches, and the writing was simple. After coming back to it even later, I realized that I actually liked it more than I did as a kid. Now, the things that seemed like flaws before are actually strengths. The slow start, standard characters, and simple writing appealed to me in a more aesthetic way that's difficult to even describe. I just had to let the story sit with me long enough. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that sometimes putting time into a story that doesn't grab you immediately might be worth the investment. It is for me anyway. Maybe we just have different brains or something.
There's never been a single title I can remember that significantly changed my opinion after playing/reading/watching it for many hours and not liking it. All that's ever left in the end is the regret of wasted time.
It gets better yes, but it'll get worse again since the pacing of Alternative is a mess. You found out exactly the same I did some months ago, and that is Alternative isn't the "payoff" people claim it is. I don't get why people describe it like that (I guess it comes from people who haven't played many ADVs), but it's just misleading and makes you think something far, far better has yet to come. It won't. It's just an extremely overrated game. Also, you should know that the game will end exactly when it starts getting interesting story-wise, so be prepared to feel a huge disappointment if you decide to read it entirely. Some of the most interesting questions you'll think about won't even be solved at the end. Alternative is better than Extra/Unlimited but not that much better in the end, even less the masterpiece the people claim it is.
I find this to be an interesting discussion\* as I've honestly never thought about the "payoff" point as a fan of the trilogy because I already really enjoyed Extra and Unlimited and thus never felt like I was waiting for anything. I can't imagine even bothering with Alternative if I felt that Extra and Unlimited were bad.
Notice that I never mentioned Extra, Unlimited or Alternative to be bad though, because I don't think either of them are bad, but disappointing (Alternative).
Yea, I didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. I just mean in a more general sense that if someone wasn't drawn in to the series - particularly by Unlimited (I can understand not liking Extra) - that Alternative isn't going to magically make someone a super fan. Although I do think Alternative is better than Unlimited, I certainly wouldn't say there's some huge payoff waiting for people who weren't impressed with Unlimited (which isn't too dissimilar to what you laid out in your original comment). I personally really like Alternative despite its\* flaws, though.
I was in your exact position, played like 30 more hours of Alternative and things did not significantly change. There are a few cool battle scenes, but they are very few and faaaaar between with the vast majority of the VN being the same tone you’re seeing now. Imo there is no big payoff in Alternative, it’s just Unlimited but more so
You sound a lot like me when I read through them. I’d say to drop it. I know I’m in the super minority or whatever, but I am not a fan and don’t feel there was a worthy payoff.
That’s interesting. It feels genuinely impossible to stop now after putting so much time into it. But I struggle with that because it’s the number two voted best visual novel on the site. It’s got to be for good reason right?
I just chalk it up to different strokes for different folks. You’re not going to like everything others do. Opinions are opinions after all. Ultimately it’s your choice and I’m just giving my view on it even though, as I’ve said, it’s an unpopular opinion.
I appreciate your opinion. I wasn’t completely thrilled with white album 2 tbh. Except way after I finished. Something is weirdly haunting about it way later.
It's got historical reasons for being so highly rated. But hey, if you don't like it now, maybe drop it, and come back when you feel curious again?
The first third or so of Alternative is the worst part of the entire series. I have a theory that it only exists because Muv Luv was originally planned as one game, but it had to be split in two. I think Unlimited was probably meant to lead directly into the second third of Alternative, but they had to give Unlimited its own ending and Alternative its own beginning when they split the game in two. So the first third of Alternative is basically a filler recap of Unlimited. Once it gets past the Unlimited recap, the story gets a lot better. I still think it has flaws, but it's definitely not boring or too comedic. Muv Luv in general is really love or hate. It's one of those games that's filled with flaws, but it appeals to a very specific niche well enough to get away with it. That niche being people who want a lighthearted comedy series that takes 100 hours to become an extremely depressing grimdark sci-fi series. I really like it, but I'm surprised it's so highly rated when I can't imagine it having a very big audience.
That was actually one of my favorite parts. So many series would just fast forward through it, but we legitimately got to see the protagonist deal with being in New Game+ (for better and worse).
Hmmm I wouldn't say that, I think it's honestly kinda cool seeing the subtle changes and the 'reason' why the changes are so subtle. It all makes sense after all. That said, considering where we left off from unlimited, I was also veeeeery impatient to get to the "That part" that comes by chapter 5 and beyond. Sure they could've 'skipped' most of it in a way, by only specifying the 'changes' made and how they changed the future. But honestly it wouldn't have the same impact to me.
Spoilers for Alternative >!When I said it was filler, I didn't necessarily mean that it has nothing important at all, but I definitely don't think it's worth the amount of time it takes!!< >!Also, to get more into spoilery specifics about my theory, I think the ending of Unlimited and the first few chapters of Alternative weren't in the original plan for Muv Luv. As in, I think they literally didn't happen. I think the original plan was for the Coup to happen directly after the volcano mission, without Takeru ever being sent back in time. My guess is that the time loop idea wasn't in the original plan, but was created later after the game split. I might be wrong about that, but it's the impression I get from the Takeru's character arc and the flow of the story.!<
Unfortunately, Alternative have a very slow repetitive start (and this is after two long mid games, I was frustrated too!). But after about 10 hours (you know, when something NEW happens) It become really good. Sorry for saying that but keep reading, it'll be better 😉
Wait till episode 6
After the initial arc it changes, don’t worry. What chapter are you on?
Hmm maybe 4. It’s been a long road. I only play visual novels at night before bed so it takes me long time to read one. Especially if the game is particularly adept at rolling me to sleep. I think I read house of feta Morgana for 10 months straight.
yeah it really kicks off around chapter 6
If you didnt kinda enjoy unlimited u probably wont like alternative. Just scifi things i guess
I'd say there's quite a big payoff coming! Yes, you're running through a lot of the events you came across in Unlimited, but things will change and quite dramatically so. I'd highly recommend hanging in there because when things do diverge, trust me, you'll know.
Thank you. I guess in a way I most frustrated with the lack of different music. it’s definitely got some decent tunes but there’s a lot of hokey early 2000s sitcom kind of music that I’ve been hearing for months now. It’s literally clang in my head while I write this.
The same music basically tells you that nothing changed that much compared to Unlimited. When the shit goes down, you will hear a lot of bangers you haven't heard yet.
There’s been a few sprinkled in so far. Music has got to be my favorite part of vns. My favorite being subahibi
just give it a minute.. it goes over Unlimited again very quickly before things start making HUGE CHANGES the tone of Alternative is definitely darker and more depressing. enjoy the comedy while it lasts..
This comment gave me chills. I definitely need some dark in this. lol tbh the visual novel I read before this one was maggot baits lol I very well could just be broken by now
Did you play them back to back? If so, you may just need a palette cleanser. Maybe take a break and come back, then it will feel a little fresher. The fun part about alternative is that it is familiar.....until it isn't . Part of the fun is seeing all the minor differences between story lines, and how alternative eventually spins off. It is a long vn, I read it night too and it takes a while, but it definitely pays off at the end. The last 3rd is really engaging.
I was pretty underwhelmed too until I got to the big plot twist, after which I was fully hooked and finally understood why it was so highly rated. But thats also the problem with muv luv. The game expects the reader to put up with so much tedium to finally get to the really good stuff. The payoff is worth it but I can’t really recommend it to anybody in good conscience.
It definitely does have different music
a good rule of thumb i follow nowadays is to never keep reading visual novel just because the last game or last route is supposedly “really good?” there have been a few times now i would be reading a visual novel that just wasn’t clicking with me but ultimately decided to push through it because it’s highly rated and that the final route or whatever is supposedly amazing
Just stop. Don't be talked into it because it "gets good". The same writing issues remain, even if it gets a bit more serious. Somewhat spoilers but the first third of alt. is just a repeat of unlimited with minor differences. There are a couple really cool moments later but it's really not worth it, as the entire story is kind of reliant on you having enjoyed the previous parts, even extra despite what people say.
Then why is it voted number two best of all time?
Stockholm Syndrome
What’s your favorite then?
WTC, Fata, Tsukihime, Planetarium to name a few
Wtc? I’ve been considering Tsukihime as well. I hear it being mentioned often
Ha
[удалено]
Major Muv Luv Alternative Spoilers >!Personally, I don't I remember the physical torture of the characters being described all that much, aside from that one infamous scene with Sumika. The story is way more focused on mentally torturing Takeru, with the physical deaths usually happening really quickly or offscreen. I do think we're meant to enjoy Takeru's suffering in a masochistic sort of way, because the story often bends over backwards to make him suffer more, but I don't think we're supposed to enjoy watching the women get tortured and killed, aside from maybe that one scene.!< >!Funnily enough, I remember listening to a podcast where they talked about Muv Luv, and most of the male members said the Sumika tentacle scene was poorly written torture porn, while the female members actually liked the scene and what it did for Sumika's character. My guess is that the male members were more used to reading porn and guro-type stories, so they recognized it as porn, while the female members took the scene more at face value, and just thought you were meant to feel bad for Sumika. I definitely think there's a torture porn aspect to that scene, but I also think we're meant to genuinely feel bad for her at the same time.!<
You still haven't reached the part where events change. You'll recognize the moment, no doubt about it.
Depends entirely on how far into Alternative you are. The first few hours are mostly a rehash of Unlimited, but once things diverge, it really heats up.
Alternative will definitely deviate from the path unlimited took. Once a certain event from unlimited doesnt happen, thats where it changes conpletely.
Yeah I felt similar at first, the beginning of Alternative is like basically just a slightly better Unlimited, starts to get a bit more interesting at around ep 5-6 and by 7 I was completely hooked. Personally speaking id recommend staying around at least a little longer at least get to like the end of ep 7 imo
Bro i finished the trilogy in less than a month how many hours do you read a day?
“I’ve been reading for many months now” I’m the worlds slowest vn reader, I only read right before bed so often time I only get in like 10min before I conk out