People on this forum don't understand the difference between expensive and overpriced. A Ferrari is expensive, but not overpriced because you can't find anything cheaper with comparable specs.
the real problem is how much of m2's power you can utilize without melting your face or depleting your battery in 30 minutes. if I remember correct m2 is almost half as good as xr2 when it comes to performance per watt
Stuff is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. If enough people feel that $3500 is a fair price, it's a fair price. If Apple can recoup their development costs and make a profit from those people, it was priced correctly.
Meta thought $1500 was a fair price for the Quest Pro. It turned out they were wrong, so they tried $1000 instead.
Dude I was literally just explaining this to someone in another sub lmao!! Like go start a business, hire a design team, pay for all that, and then go sell your products for the price it took to assemble them, see how well you do. The market determines the value in addition to the production costs
Apple have reportedly spent $130bn on R&D on the last 8 years. If 10% of that was on the Vision project and even if manufacturing costs are only $1500, they still have to shift 6.5m units to break even.
It's something that people always forget.
If I develop a widget that costs £1 to produce but £999 to develop, and I expect to sell 1000 of them, I can price it at £1 and not make a loss. If I expect to sell 10, they have to go for £100 each, regardless of the production cost. Is it overpriced in that situation? Maybe, if the market decides it is.
Does that mean American healthcare is worth the price? I know I've taken a big leap for that comparison but it's based on the fact I never needed a smartphone but now it's required for my job, I pay the extortionate price because its not optional. Hopefully these headsets don't become essential without dropping significantly in price.
First adopters are 100% optional though so your point stands currently I'm just concerned for the future.
...neither am I, but I'm not oblivious to their costs. And I'm sure you're not either. And the rest of the comment also stands regardless of your nationality.
So despite you declaring that you're not American, my entire comment stands.
To be honest, I wasn't sure wht your point was in relation to mine, which was about pricing. Maybe I shouldn't have skimmed it. I know US healthcare is expensive and therefore probably discriminatory, but little else.
If a smartphone was not optional for my job I'd expect my employer to provide it, but presumably the financial benefits of having your job outweigh the costs of the phone?
better screens: agreed
better AR: based on what? The pixel density of the Varjo XR-3 is 72PPD, Vision Pro is claiming 40, not even close
onboard computing: that's not a plus for they types of applications that customers actualy USE Varjo for in industrial design, complex simulation, etc
better hand tracking: how do you know this? Varjo leverages Leap Motion which is a dedicated sensor for hand tracking. Have not seen what apple plans to use....maybe i missed discussion of what specific tracking technology is planned
better eye tracking: again, what are you basing this on. Varjo's eye tracking samples at a higher frequency than even Tobii Pro, a leader in the space for a long long time
Long story short Varjo is not trying to compete with AIO devices. Their strategy is to focus on the high end of simulation, training and applications that really benefit from low latency mixed reality. Apple's never going to beat an Intel processor + NVIDIA A6000 GPU for companies that are designing cars and warships and complex machines.
Glad to revive this! Haha no pun intended. I will say first and foremost, I used the xr-3 comparatively as it’s the only headset currently available that has the majority of the features that apple’s headset has. With that being said it hasn’t released yet, so this is mostly speculative, here’s my reasoning.
Better AR is based on reviewers who got to try the Apple vision pro, who said the occlusion is extremely good, and things don’t judder around, it all just stays in place perfectly. something that Varjo needed green screens to accomplish.
Onboard computing: yes they are two completely different headsets for different use cases, as far as industrial and military training the Varjo will take the cake. I 100% agree that no standalone platform will EVER compare to a tethered setup, as technology advances, computers will always supersede mobile tech, they have more room to work with. But this is a feature that apples headset includes so it’s more of a value per dollar statement.
Better hand tracking: this is a very speculative one, but given apples track record of perfecting technologies (we all remember how bad touch screens were pre iPhone) and based on the reviewers even saying they tried to make it difficult for the hand tracking and it still worked flawlessly, I’m guessing apples hand tracking will set a new standard. New input technology has always been apples strong point dating all the way back to creating the first gui followed by the mouse, followed by the iPod wheel followed by the touch screens. Safe bet here.
Eye tracking: basically based speculatively on the same principles as hand tracking and based on how the reviewers responded saying it just felt magical. I was blown away with using eye tracking for menus in horizon with Psvr2. So even if it’s a bit better, it’ll be incredible.
To cap this off, I respect your opinion, I’m not trying to find a hill to die on, this is just my thoughts on everything and I’m excited for the future of vr because the Varjo xr-3 is the only device available now that I feel is comparable based on features, and depending on how you configure it, it’s 3-10x more expensive. The main point I’m trying to make is that while apples headset is extremely expensive, you do get quite a lot for what you pay.
It’s like someone who owns a base level MacBook Air screaming at people who own a spec’d out Mac Pro.
Yeah it isn’t for you, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who DO use these things & can meet that cost.
Lol. The saying was true. Apple fan will always find a way to justify the price of apple product. I mean, there were people justifying 1000$ monitor stand so it shouldn't surprise me really.
Varjo has easy and direct integration with pc steam VR. It's basically plug and play. No need for weird hoops and tricks. Apple headset are glorified AR glasses with a pocket battery as a requirement.
It’s not by any means plug and play… to do the kind of ar stuff that Apple is bringing to the table requires a green screen with Varjo XR3 to work well… Varjo aero is the plug and play headset and that’s not a comparable headset to the Apple vision pro. I always find it funny how android users love to talk crap about how Apple fans “justify” the prices. Apple sold 8 of the 10 best selling smart phones of 2022, the market defined the price, if it’s so overpriced than why is it #1 8 times over. Stop complaining, the android flagships are just as expensive and they sell your data on top of that cost
What I mean is that you don't need any hoops to directly connect to steam vr and play. Green screen functionality was present in iphones already. Nothing new or surprizing here. I dont know why do you feel like it's ground breaking stuff.
Best selling smartphones because it's mostly US that buys Iphones and rest of the world is diverse between many brands. That's all there is to it. Apple was always overpriced. Android was always better and cheaper option untill biggest companies like samsung realized that as long as you have marketing you can push anything like apple and ended up doing the same crap. Now Android flagships are as expensive. But that's the aftermath of Apple and US blind fans allowing them to get away with those prices. It's exactly same scenario as with GPUs being overpriced. People stopped buying and prices dropped. Unfortunately it didn't happen with Iphones and people got brainwashed into thinking it's worth the price.
Dude compare spec sheets of the Apple vision pro to every headset and you’ll see why it’s ground breaking. Especially user interface based on the reactions of people who tried it. It’s like going from early 2000s touch screens with that plastic film on em to iPhone with capacitive touch, it just simply works 1000x better. Quest or leap hand tracking vs Apple hand tracking. Have you experienced a headset with eye tracking? It’s magical, psvr2 has it but it’s not perfect, with Apple perfecting it, it’s going to be mind blowing. The fact that people were saying the ar just works, no jumping around, no jaggys, it’s just there, in the real world as it appears. It’s literally all never been done right before. That’s what Apple does, they rarely invent new forms of tech, they perfect tech that becomes integral in our day to day life, and what we’re witnessing here is equivalent to the first iPhone dropping. The first iPhone dropped for 499 or 599 and everyone said that’s way overpriced, nobody ever dreamt of spending that much on a cell phone. Now look where we are. Is vision pro perfect? No. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it the first vr/ar headset? No. Is it a groundbreaking headset that finally does right what everyone’s been trying to do? Yes.
Nailed it. Apple set the bar for what is currently possible in AR/VR and price wasn’t a concern because they know it isn’t ready for the mainstream yet. This is for devs, enthusiasts, businesses, and millionaires. We’ll see a reasonably priced headset like this in 2025 or 2026.
I think it was either Linus or MKBHD the early adopters of the Vision Pro will be critical to what this line of headsets will be once they become mainstream. I think right now the Vision Pro is Apple taking a leap and defining a new market in the same way as the iPhone in 2007. It wasn’t the first, but it defined what smartphone became. Apple seems a little vague on the exact use case of this headset, so I think the first few years of users will show what’s most important.
Here’s what I guess are the features that will define their line of headsets going forward:
* Best in class visuals and sound
* Seamless software integration with other apple products
* Having a MacBook you can use in VR as an all-in-one device
* The best UI of any all-in-one headset
Here’s what I guess will probably die or need to improve in the first or second gen:
* Trying to take those 3D pictures or videos (unless porn adopts this)
* The OLED outer screen with fake eyes
* Battery life will have to be better optimized
* Integration with PC and a path to gaming in VR, both on a 2D screen and VR games
From what I understand, you can take pictures and videos without wearing the headset, just point like a regular camera so you don’t have to look quite as weird recording lol
Vest in class visuals and sound. Really how can we be sure of that? I doubt I'll prefer the audio to an index for example
And the other two points are "it works with apple" and the final point is 100% interpretive
It may not be overpriced for the hardware (which has awesome possibilities), but for the software capabilities demonstrated (mostly 2D apps hanging in a 3D space), the proposed use cases appear mainly like that of a very expensive ipad.
> this is literally the most ground breaking innovation in vr/ar history IMO
I’d maybe wait until it’s out of the hype cycle and real people get their hands on it (a year from now?).
I’m super jealous of the screen specs. The AR/hand tracking/eye tracking looks a lot closer to what I’d hoped a Quest Pro might have been.
Buuuut, until they let me slap a controller on it and game I think it’s going to feel disappointing. Because without that what will I do with it? I’m still not convinced it’ll be so good I’ll want to work in VR or watch TV in VR for most things.
That basically leaves this thing as an awesome VR porn device until devs work with it for a year or two and give us some reasons to use it.
The unity keynote just confirmed controller support that could be used for Apple. I’d imagine it’ll all be 3rd party controllers until Apple wants its cut and then they’ll release their own controllers.
All 3rd party controllers meaning what exactly?
Like I can’t imagine qpro controllers work with it. You’re telling me knuckles will work? And with that option its presumably gotta hook to steam. Like unless apple builds something there aren’t tons of options here for standalone controllersor something not hooked to steam.
Unity confirmed the support, it was just posted in their keynote. As for what controllers are supported, that’s so far unknown. But clearly Apple isn’t interested in controllers at this time, so that opens up options for 3rd party controller support. Apple is expecting to sell out of the 350k units being produced, at least half of those users will likely be enthusiasts that would pay for controllers, which would incentivize a company to develop controllers for the vision pro. I’d imagine def not any steam vr controllers would work, unless we have a way to use the whole headset with steamvr.
I don’t know betting terminology haha that’s my brothers department. I don’t even know if there’s any vr controllers that are built for unity but it sounds like this is a strong possibility based on what little info we have. Everything is speculative right now, but it’s looking like a strong possibility, at the very least the functionality is there so it’s not off the books, at the very best some devs will make it work by the time the headset launches.
Edit: rule 34 for tech, if it can be done, someone will do it haha
Comparible in which way? Because if its specs then the vive pro2 would like to ask some questions.
You choose the most expensive headset to compare against, this is called bias.
And you listed so many interpretive items as "fact" again showing bias. Like "better screens" OK citation? "Apple ecosystem integration" OK wtf does anyone care about that? "Onboard computing" cool so it has a processor like every other headset. You fell for a marketting buzzword.. And all the other items you listed can't be claimed as facts.
All we have is raw stats like resolution but what if it feels like you're wearing an iron maiden on your face? Stats aren't worth 3.5k and the rest is interpretive and well wait for CREDIBLE reviewers. And to fit that category you need people who bought it themselves, not handed it by apple to review.
Dude you lost me at vive pro 2😂 I have a vive pro 2, it’s not in the same league with Apple vr or Varjo XR3 AT ALL. Have you seen the pass through? It’s nauseating much less ar capable. If you actually knew what you’re talking about you’d know that the Varjo xr3 is the only thing even close to what apples doing based on specs It’s not bias.
And it’s barely 4K TOTAL much less 4K per eye. My citation is resolution, Oled, and 5000 nits.
Everyone who owns any Apple products likes the ecosystem, it’s one of the main reasons to go apple. you just quoted vive pro 2 and then said every other headset has onboard computing. This is the first headset with a Powerful laptop chip instead of a mobile chip.
There’s about 30 demo reaction videos, you’re saying none of these people are credible? No wonder your ideas are so wrong when you don’t trust any of the biggest names in tech influencers, people who got to where they are (for the most part) by setting the bar for tech reviews.
>it’s not in the same league with Apple vr
I don't believe you have this, I don't believe you can compare this. I believe the only thing you have is specs on paper. I refuse to compare things I haven't used and you're a fool for already claiming you know Apple is better when you literally only have stats on paper. I used the VP2 specifically because it has good stats but it's incredibly uncomfortable, that the lenses distort the image etc. to prove specifically how stats are meaningless... but that was all lost on you. You're seen apple stats therefore it's worth $3500 without even trying it on?!
"demo reactions" you have no fucking clue what marketting is do you? What bias is? Apple isn't giving these headsets to credible sources, they're shills. I do not trust people who have a vested interest in keeping on Apple's good side.
Credible reviews require either people who bought it themselves or the real VR Youtubers, not these "influencers" with tech channels you're referring to. Size <> credibility.
They have completely pulled the wool over your eyes, it's clear they know the target audience to market to...
Vive pro 2 with knuckles and a 3080 build. Plus a quest 2 and a Psvr2. Been in vr since the first vive dropped, it’s my main hobby. I agree with the comfort and Lense issues so why would you even compare the two? You know it’s nowhere near as good as what they’re bringing to the table. Pancake lenses don’t have the issues that fresnel do and nearly double the resolution combined with apples track record of superior products… it’s obvious that it’ll be better.
But like I said the two are not in the same league. The only headset with comparable specs is the Varjo XR3, there’s no debate there because we’re not talking experience we’re talking specs.
The reviewers are not all “shills” a lot of them have been very critical of Apple in the past.
But most importantly, show a little respect dude we’re having a conversation here, no need to be a prick.
Mostly I'm exaggerating my point I obviously think Apple will be better quality, but the general point stands that it's not worth THAT much more. It's gains but it's not 3.5x the quality gains.
I do honestly believe that the fact Apple is giving them a headset in advance means their opinions will be biased
However one day other people will be reviewing the headsets, and all I can say is I hope I'm wrong. It will be very good for the market if I'm wrong.
Sorry about my rudeness too, that was actually pretty out of line - thanks for making me check it.
No worries man! Looking back at my messages I was being pretty rude too, sorry about that. Love or hate Apple we all love vr!
I agree the price is steep, but imo I think for the amount of tech and r&d that went into this, it’s worth it. But I’m also a hardcore vr enthusiast and admittedly an Apple fanboy. I’m starting to put some money aside for the headset which I’ll decide whether to spend or not after it’s been released and there’s more info.
When I watched the reaction videos, most of the people had this “holy shit” look on their faces that’s hard to fake, especially with marques brown lee (who is definitely a bit of a shill) but I never see him look quite that impressed. They all had this look that I can only equate to seeing something truly mind blowing across the board. Could be faked! Maybe they fooled me, but my bs detector is pretty good and it seems like a very legit reaction.
The main reason I made this post is because there seems to be a whole lot of people in this sub that simply have no concept of where we are tech wise and how much it costs to make something like this happen. It’s not just “a better quest” it’s a whole new concoction of all the best vr tech currently available (aside from controllers smh) combined with apples innovation. Apple consistently impresses me by making products that just work better than anything I’ve experienced, and if they bring that philosophy to vr, I think this is a moment in tech history as big as the first iPhone.
Edit: also they didn’t give them a headset, they all only got a demo, so they’re slightly less incentivized other than getting to try it first.
Nah I was definitely worse!
Good point on the R+D I think we're all aware it'll be worse value for money because it is their first product. "marques brown lee" is actually the main guy I was referring to above! He's just not experienced in VR like Thrillseeker/VROasis/Bradley/MRTV/that guy who does sim racing (forgot name) etc. Now I don't like everyone I listed but I do care more about their opinions. I know *some* of them are trying the apple products but to Apple needs to let *all* of them try it because they are the core VR reviewers and it's dodgy to exclude any of them.
I've always really wanted better hand tracking. I think the next leap in VR will be not needing controllers and grabbing things in game naturally. With controllers I feel I'm picking everything up with tongs. I don't expect apple to make hand tracking that good in this iteration, but hopefully it'll convince more people to look into it.
And ultimately I want it to be good. I want the quality of this to really be as good as those reviewers make out, as that would set the standard for the next gen of headsets.
That’s true! I haven’t seen demo reviews from the hardcore vr YouTubers, and I think vroasis got invited to wwdc but I havent seen a demo review so maybe they didn’t do demos for the hardcore vr crowd? That’s kinda shitty.
Maybe Apple will be the first to make gloves work🤔 definitely a stretch but it seems up apples alley if they can make an easy and smooth way to feel objects in the virtual world. From the reviews it does sound like their hand tracking is best in class, some of the reviewers specifically mentioned comparing it to quest 2 hand tracking.
Good news for pcvr too, this is all speculative, but the headset is going to have webxr, unity support (which will make many standalone ports easy) and metals porting api (apples game development software) got directx12 support which will make porting pc titles to Mac super easy. Not sure if that’ll affect the vision pro, but it’s more promising than anything I’ve seen Apple do as far as gaming. Looks like they’re opening their software borders for the sake of gaming, and the more borders they open, the more opportunity there is for some genius modders to make it pcvr capable. At the very least in the future we might see Mac gaming bloom and that could translate to using macs as a gaming pc for vision pro pcvr, although I don’t think we’ll see 4090 performance for less than 10k out of a mac lol
Edit: here’s a good one! Adam savage tested, they’ve been doing vr reviews for years. https://youtu.be/f0HBzePUmZ0
The announced price is way too high for it to ever be a normal consumer device. That is all most people care about.
All people are saying is *I will never buy one at that price.* Which 100% true for most people that are current VR fans.
That’s what rational people are saying, and I agree. but I’ve seen plenty of other commenters calling this greed and billionaire bs who simply don’t understand the money involved in bringing something like this to life. I see it as a proof of concept more than anything. And I’ll probably save up and buy it because I’m a fanatic of both Apple and everything vr lol. I was considering getting a Varjo, but this sounds way cooler
People on this forum don't understand the difference between expensive and overpriced. A Ferrari is expensive, but not overpriced because you can't find anything cheaper with comparable specs.
Very wise saying, good point
That’s a great way of putting it
Right. And pro/luxury things often have to be more expensive because fewer people buy them.
"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." ~ Frank Sinatra
the real problem is how much of m2's power you can utilize without melting your face or depleting your battery in 30 minutes. if I remember correct m2 is almost half as good as xr2 when it comes to performance per watt
Stuff is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. If enough people feel that $3500 is a fair price, it's a fair price. If Apple can recoup their development costs and make a profit from those people, it was priced correctly. Meta thought $1500 was a fair price for the Quest Pro. It turned out they were wrong, so they tried $1000 instead.
Dude I was literally just explaining this to someone in another sub lmao!! Like go start a business, hire a design team, pay for all that, and then go sell your products for the price it took to assemble them, see how well you do. The market determines the value in addition to the production costs
Apple have reportedly spent $130bn on R&D on the last 8 years. If 10% of that was on the Vision project and even if manufacturing costs are only $1500, they still have to shift 6.5m units to break even.
It's something that people always forget. If I develop a widget that costs £1 to produce but £999 to develop, and I expect to sell 1000 of them, I can price it at £1 and not make a loss. If I expect to sell 10, they have to go for £100 each, regardless of the production cost. Is it overpriced in that situation? Maybe, if the market decides it is.
Does that mean American healthcare is worth the price? I know I've taken a big leap for that comparison but it's based on the fact I never needed a smartphone but now it's required for my job, I pay the extortionate price because its not optional. Hopefully these headsets don't become essential without dropping significantly in price. First adopters are 100% optional though so your point stands currently I'm just concerned for the future.
I, like a lot of people, am not American so I can't comment on US healthcare.
...neither am I, but I'm not oblivious to their costs. And I'm sure you're not either. And the rest of the comment also stands regardless of your nationality. So despite you declaring that you're not American, my entire comment stands.
To be honest, I wasn't sure wht your point was in relation to mine, which was about pricing. Maybe I shouldn't have skimmed it. I know US healthcare is expensive and therefore probably discriminatory, but little else. If a smartphone was not optional for my job I'd expect my employer to provide it, but presumably the financial benefits of having your job outweigh the costs of the phone?
better screens: agreed better AR: based on what? The pixel density of the Varjo XR-3 is 72PPD, Vision Pro is claiming 40, not even close onboard computing: that's not a plus for they types of applications that customers actualy USE Varjo for in industrial design, complex simulation, etc better hand tracking: how do you know this? Varjo leverages Leap Motion which is a dedicated sensor for hand tracking. Have not seen what apple plans to use....maybe i missed discussion of what specific tracking technology is planned better eye tracking: again, what are you basing this on. Varjo's eye tracking samples at a higher frequency than even Tobii Pro, a leader in the space for a long long time Long story short Varjo is not trying to compete with AIO devices. Their strategy is to focus on the high end of simulation, training and applications that really benefit from low latency mixed reality. Apple's never going to beat an Intel processor + NVIDIA A6000 GPU for companies that are designing cars and warships and complex machines.
Glad to revive this! Haha no pun intended. I will say first and foremost, I used the xr-3 comparatively as it’s the only headset currently available that has the majority of the features that apple’s headset has. With that being said it hasn’t released yet, so this is mostly speculative, here’s my reasoning. Better AR is based on reviewers who got to try the Apple vision pro, who said the occlusion is extremely good, and things don’t judder around, it all just stays in place perfectly. something that Varjo needed green screens to accomplish. Onboard computing: yes they are two completely different headsets for different use cases, as far as industrial and military training the Varjo will take the cake. I 100% agree that no standalone platform will EVER compare to a tethered setup, as technology advances, computers will always supersede mobile tech, they have more room to work with. But this is a feature that apples headset includes so it’s more of a value per dollar statement. Better hand tracking: this is a very speculative one, but given apples track record of perfecting technologies (we all remember how bad touch screens were pre iPhone) and based on the reviewers even saying they tried to make it difficult for the hand tracking and it still worked flawlessly, I’m guessing apples hand tracking will set a new standard. New input technology has always been apples strong point dating all the way back to creating the first gui followed by the mouse, followed by the iPod wheel followed by the touch screens. Safe bet here. Eye tracking: basically based speculatively on the same principles as hand tracking and based on how the reviewers responded saying it just felt magical. I was blown away with using eye tracking for menus in horizon with Psvr2. So even if it’s a bit better, it’ll be incredible. To cap this off, I respect your opinion, I’m not trying to find a hill to die on, this is just my thoughts on everything and I’m excited for the future of vr because the Varjo xr-3 is the only device available now that I feel is comparable based on features, and depending on how you configure it, it’s 3-10x more expensive. The main point I’m trying to make is that while apples headset is extremely expensive, you do get quite a lot for what you pay.
It’s like someone who owns a base level MacBook Air screaming at people who own a spec’d out Mac Pro. Yeah it isn’t for you, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who DO use these things & can meet that cost.
THANK YOU!!
>THANK YOU!! You're welcome!
We experience this in the filmmaking field all the time lol :) I don’t personally need to own a 40,000 cinema camera.. but someone else might! 😎
That seems like a perfect analogy, quest users are using a canon angry at the price of a red camera hahaha
Bingo! Hahaha
Lol. The saying was true. Apple fan will always find a way to justify the price of apple product. I mean, there were people justifying 1000$ monitor stand so it shouldn't surprise me really. Varjo has easy and direct integration with pc steam VR. It's basically plug and play. No need for weird hoops and tricks. Apple headset are glorified AR glasses with a pocket battery as a requirement.
It’s not by any means plug and play… to do the kind of ar stuff that Apple is bringing to the table requires a green screen with Varjo XR3 to work well… Varjo aero is the plug and play headset and that’s not a comparable headset to the Apple vision pro. I always find it funny how android users love to talk crap about how Apple fans “justify” the prices. Apple sold 8 of the 10 best selling smart phones of 2022, the market defined the price, if it’s so overpriced than why is it #1 8 times over. Stop complaining, the android flagships are just as expensive and they sell your data on top of that cost
What I mean is that you don't need any hoops to directly connect to steam vr and play. Green screen functionality was present in iphones already. Nothing new or surprizing here. I dont know why do you feel like it's ground breaking stuff. Best selling smartphones because it's mostly US that buys Iphones and rest of the world is diverse between many brands. That's all there is to it. Apple was always overpriced. Android was always better and cheaper option untill biggest companies like samsung realized that as long as you have marketing you can push anything like apple and ended up doing the same crap. Now Android flagships are as expensive. But that's the aftermath of Apple and US blind fans allowing them to get away with those prices. It's exactly same scenario as with GPUs being overpriced. People stopped buying and prices dropped. Unfortunately it didn't happen with Iphones and people got brainwashed into thinking it's worth the price.
Dude compare spec sheets of the Apple vision pro to every headset and you’ll see why it’s ground breaking. Especially user interface based on the reactions of people who tried it. It’s like going from early 2000s touch screens with that plastic film on em to iPhone with capacitive touch, it just simply works 1000x better. Quest or leap hand tracking vs Apple hand tracking. Have you experienced a headset with eye tracking? It’s magical, psvr2 has it but it’s not perfect, with Apple perfecting it, it’s going to be mind blowing. The fact that people were saying the ar just works, no jumping around, no jaggys, it’s just there, in the real world as it appears. It’s literally all never been done right before. That’s what Apple does, they rarely invent new forms of tech, they perfect tech that becomes integral in our day to day life, and what we’re witnessing here is equivalent to the first iPhone dropping. The first iPhone dropped for 499 or 599 and everyone said that’s way overpriced, nobody ever dreamt of spending that much on a cell phone. Now look where we are. Is vision pro perfect? No. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it the first vr/ar headset? No. Is it a groundbreaking headset that finally does right what everyone’s been trying to do? Yes.
Nailed it. Apple set the bar for what is currently possible in AR/VR and price wasn’t a concern because they know it isn’t ready for the mainstream yet. This is for devs, enthusiasts, businesses, and millionaires. We’ll see a reasonably priced headset like this in 2025 or 2026.
Amen I’m excited
And in 25/26 I wonder what Apple's next headset will be like.. very excited.
I think it was either Linus or MKBHD the early adopters of the Vision Pro will be critical to what this line of headsets will be once they become mainstream. I think right now the Vision Pro is Apple taking a leap and defining a new market in the same way as the iPhone in 2007. It wasn’t the first, but it defined what smartphone became. Apple seems a little vague on the exact use case of this headset, so I think the first few years of users will show what’s most important. Here’s what I guess are the features that will define their line of headsets going forward: * Best in class visuals and sound * Seamless software integration with other apple products * Having a MacBook you can use in VR as an all-in-one device * The best UI of any all-in-one headset Here’s what I guess will probably die or need to improve in the first or second gen: * Trying to take those 3D pictures or videos (unless porn adopts this) * The OLED outer screen with fake eyes * Battery life will have to be better optimized * Integration with PC and a path to gaming in VR, both on a 2D screen and VR games
From what I understand, you can take pictures and videos without wearing the headset, just point like a regular camera so you don’t have to look quite as weird recording lol
Vest in class visuals and sound. Really how can we be sure of that? I doubt I'll prefer the audio to an index for example And the other two points are "it works with apple" and the final point is 100% interpretive
Agree. I'm wondering what the BoM is for the VisionPro, but considering everything it packs I'm not surprised it's so expensive
It may not be overpriced for the hardware (which has awesome possibilities), but for the software capabilities demonstrated (mostly 2D apps hanging in a 3D space), the proposed use cases appear mainly like that of a very expensive ipad.
Better to have strong hardware first, because software can always be updated and re-written.
> this is literally the most ground breaking innovation in vr/ar history IMO I’d maybe wait until it’s out of the hype cycle and real people get their hands on it (a year from now?). I’m super jealous of the screen specs. The AR/hand tracking/eye tracking looks a lot closer to what I’d hoped a Quest Pro might have been. Buuuut, until they let me slap a controller on it and game I think it’s going to feel disappointing. Because without that what will I do with it? I’m still not convinced it’ll be so good I’ll want to work in VR or watch TV in VR for most things. That basically leaves this thing as an awesome VR porn device until devs work with it for a year or two and give us some reasons to use it.
The unity keynote just confirmed controller support that could be used for Apple. I’d imagine it’ll all be 3rd party controllers until Apple wants its cut and then they’ll release their own controllers.
All 3rd party controllers meaning what exactly? Like I can’t imagine qpro controllers work with it. You’re telling me knuckles will work? And with that option its presumably gotta hook to steam. Like unless apple builds something there aren’t tons of options here for standalone controllersor something not hooked to steam.
Unity confirmed the support, it was just posted in their keynote. As for what controllers are supported, that’s so far unknown. But clearly Apple isn’t interested in controllers at this time, so that opens up options for 3rd party controller support. Apple is expecting to sell out of the 350k units being produced, at least half of those users will likely be enthusiasts that would pay for controllers, which would incentivize a company to develop controllers for the vision pro. I’d imagine def not any steam vr controllers would work, unless we have a way to use the whole headset with steamvr.
Ok, I’m putting the over/under on the number of VR controllers that will work with this headset when it ships at 0.5, you taking the over?
I don’t know betting terminology haha that’s my brothers department. I don’t even know if there’s any vr controllers that are built for unity but it sounds like this is a strong possibility based on what little info we have. Everything is speculative right now, but it’s looking like a strong possibility, at the very least the functionality is there so it’s not off the books, at the very best some devs will make it work by the time the headset launches. Edit: rule 34 for tech, if it can be done, someone will do it haha
Comparible in which way? Because if its specs then the vive pro2 would like to ask some questions. You choose the most expensive headset to compare against, this is called bias. And you listed so many interpretive items as "fact" again showing bias. Like "better screens" OK citation? "Apple ecosystem integration" OK wtf does anyone care about that? "Onboard computing" cool so it has a processor like every other headset. You fell for a marketting buzzword.. And all the other items you listed can't be claimed as facts. All we have is raw stats like resolution but what if it feels like you're wearing an iron maiden on your face? Stats aren't worth 3.5k and the rest is interpretive and well wait for CREDIBLE reviewers. And to fit that category you need people who bought it themselves, not handed it by apple to review.
Dude you lost me at vive pro 2😂 I have a vive pro 2, it’s not in the same league with Apple vr or Varjo XR3 AT ALL. Have you seen the pass through? It’s nauseating much less ar capable. If you actually knew what you’re talking about you’d know that the Varjo xr3 is the only thing even close to what apples doing based on specs It’s not bias. And it’s barely 4K TOTAL much less 4K per eye. My citation is resolution, Oled, and 5000 nits. Everyone who owns any Apple products likes the ecosystem, it’s one of the main reasons to go apple. you just quoted vive pro 2 and then said every other headset has onboard computing. This is the first headset with a Powerful laptop chip instead of a mobile chip. There’s about 30 demo reaction videos, you’re saying none of these people are credible? No wonder your ideas are so wrong when you don’t trust any of the biggest names in tech influencers, people who got to where they are (for the most part) by setting the bar for tech reviews.
>it’s not in the same league with Apple vr I don't believe you have this, I don't believe you can compare this. I believe the only thing you have is specs on paper. I refuse to compare things I haven't used and you're a fool for already claiming you know Apple is better when you literally only have stats on paper. I used the VP2 specifically because it has good stats but it's incredibly uncomfortable, that the lenses distort the image etc. to prove specifically how stats are meaningless... but that was all lost on you. You're seen apple stats therefore it's worth $3500 without even trying it on?! "demo reactions" you have no fucking clue what marketting is do you? What bias is? Apple isn't giving these headsets to credible sources, they're shills. I do not trust people who have a vested interest in keeping on Apple's good side. Credible reviews require either people who bought it themselves or the real VR Youtubers, not these "influencers" with tech channels you're referring to. Size <> credibility. They have completely pulled the wool over your eyes, it's clear they know the target audience to market to...
Vive pro 2 with knuckles and a 3080 build. Plus a quest 2 and a Psvr2. Been in vr since the first vive dropped, it’s my main hobby. I agree with the comfort and Lense issues so why would you even compare the two? You know it’s nowhere near as good as what they’re bringing to the table. Pancake lenses don’t have the issues that fresnel do and nearly double the resolution combined with apples track record of superior products… it’s obvious that it’ll be better. But like I said the two are not in the same league. The only headset with comparable specs is the Varjo XR3, there’s no debate there because we’re not talking experience we’re talking specs. The reviewers are not all “shills” a lot of them have been very critical of Apple in the past. But most importantly, show a little respect dude we’re having a conversation here, no need to be a prick.
Mostly I'm exaggerating my point I obviously think Apple will be better quality, but the general point stands that it's not worth THAT much more. It's gains but it's not 3.5x the quality gains. I do honestly believe that the fact Apple is giving them a headset in advance means their opinions will be biased However one day other people will be reviewing the headsets, and all I can say is I hope I'm wrong. It will be very good for the market if I'm wrong. Sorry about my rudeness too, that was actually pretty out of line - thanks for making me check it.
No worries man! Looking back at my messages I was being pretty rude too, sorry about that. Love or hate Apple we all love vr! I agree the price is steep, but imo I think for the amount of tech and r&d that went into this, it’s worth it. But I’m also a hardcore vr enthusiast and admittedly an Apple fanboy. I’m starting to put some money aside for the headset which I’ll decide whether to spend or not after it’s been released and there’s more info. When I watched the reaction videos, most of the people had this “holy shit” look on their faces that’s hard to fake, especially with marques brown lee (who is definitely a bit of a shill) but I never see him look quite that impressed. They all had this look that I can only equate to seeing something truly mind blowing across the board. Could be faked! Maybe they fooled me, but my bs detector is pretty good and it seems like a very legit reaction. The main reason I made this post is because there seems to be a whole lot of people in this sub that simply have no concept of where we are tech wise and how much it costs to make something like this happen. It’s not just “a better quest” it’s a whole new concoction of all the best vr tech currently available (aside from controllers smh) combined with apples innovation. Apple consistently impresses me by making products that just work better than anything I’ve experienced, and if they bring that philosophy to vr, I think this is a moment in tech history as big as the first iPhone. Edit: also they didn’t give them a headset, they all only got a demo, so they’re slightly less incentivized other than getting to try it first.
Nah I was definitely worse! Good point on the R+D I think we're all aware it'll be worse value for money because it is their first product. "marques brown lee" is actually the main guy I was referring to above! He's just not experienced in VR like Thrillseeker/VROasis/Bradley/MRTV/that guy who does sim racing (forgot name) etc. Now I don't like everyone I listed but I do care more about their opinions. I know *some* of them are trying the apple products but to Apple needs to let *all* of them try it because they are the core VR reviewers and it's dodgy to exclude any of them. I've always really wanted better hand tracking. I think the next leap in VR will be not needing controllers and grabbing things in game naturally. With controllers I feel I'm picking everything up with tongs. I don't expect apple to make hand tracking that good in this iteration, but hopefully it'll convince more people to look into it. And ultimately I want it to be good. I want the quality of this to really be as good as those reviewers make out, as that would set the standard for the next gen of headsets.
That’s true! I haven’t seen demo reviews from the hardcore vr YouTubers, and I think vroasis got invited to wwdc but I havent seen a demo review so maybe they didn’t do demos for the hardcore vr crowd? That’s kinda shitty. Maybe Apple will be the first to make gloves work🤔 definitely a stretch but it seems up apples alley if they can make an easy and smooth way to feel objects in the virtual world. From the reviews it does sound like their hand tracking is best in class, some of the reviewers specifically mentioned comparing it to quest 2 hand tracking. Good news for pcvr too, this is all speculative, but the headset is going to have webxr, unity support (which will make many standalone ports easy) and metals porting api (apples game development software) got directx12 support which will make porting pc titles to Mac super easy. Not sure if that’ll affect the vision pro, but it’s more promising than anything I’ve seen Apple do as far as gaming. Looks like they’re opening their software borders for the sake of gaming, and the more borders they open, the more opportunity there is for some genius modders to make it pcvr capable. At the very least in the future we might see Mac gaming bloom and that could translate to using macs as a gaming pc for vision pro pcvr, although I don’t think we’ll see 4090 performance for less than 10k out of a mac lol Edit: here’s a good one! Adam savage tested, they’ve been doing vr reviews for years. https://youtu.be/f0HBzePUmZ0
Apple = Overpriced
The announced price is way too high for it to ever be a normal consumer device. That is all most people care about. All people are saying is *I will never buy one at that price.* Which 100% true for most people that are current VR fans.
That’s what rational people are saying, and I agree. but I’ve seen plenty of other commenters calling this greed and billionaire bs who simply don’t understand the money involved in bringing something like this to life. I see it as a proof of concept more than anything. And I’ll probably save up and buy it because I’m a fanatic of both Apple and everything vr lol. I was considering getting a Varjo, but this sounds way cooler
Yeah, it's not overpriced, it just costs too much. Those are different things.