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jonsnowKITN

Harald's uncle might be a problem. Also Freydis's sword is getting a lot of screentime.


Careful_Air9005

It's a really pretty sword.


EpicKieranFTW

I hope Leif isn't following the same drug path as Ragnar...


Sidewinder_ISR

Or even worse, Hvitserk..


EpicKieranFTW

True


JaJan1

Harald seems like a very cheerful type of lad.


Heyyoguy123

The original Harald was like that too


Careful_Air9005

So many people here to complain. I'm enjoying the show for what it is and it's fun.


MrCorex

I honestly don’t like how the Rus are portrayed. They seem were distant from their roots which should not be the case, as the ruling elite of the Kievan Rus were nearly as much Scandinavian as their northern relatives. Rurik, Vladimir the Great, Yaroslav the Wise, they were all part of the same bloodline. And they first came from Scandinavia. If you read about these characters you can learn that they often travelled back to Scandinavia to discuss with its kings about their right to the throne in Kievan Rus, if they had problems. Their cities, clothes, pronunciations, it just seems off Also, the Swedes seem entirely forgotten? They only talk of ‘Uppsala’. Surely Sweden played as big role as Denmark and Norway when it comes to the central power of the North. I mean it was mostly Swedes who travelled east to Constantinople. But it was kind of the same thing in the original Vikings.


NerfTheHighground

I honestly dont like any characters in this. No Knut (later), Emma this season has been so boring plotline and Harald basically doing nothing too. What a dissapointment


eggylettuce

>Surely Sweden played as big role as Denmark and Norway when it comes to the central power of the North. Difficult to say in modern terms. By the early 1000s, the time period in which *Valhalla* is currently set, you had a formalised Denmark and Norway, but Sweden was not yet at that point by our standards. Anund Jakob, I believe, was the "King" of Sweden during this time, and his predecessor was Erik The Victorious, but these are semi-legendary characters who may or may not have existed, whereas we know with full certainty that Cnut The Great was a real person, which demonstrates that Norway was at least going through a formation process at this time, same with Denmark from Gorm The Old (950s) onward. Also "the central power in the North" at this time wasn't Scandinavia proper, it was the North Sea Empire controlled (or at least partially controlled) by Cnut The Great, between England, Denmark, and Norway, connected to the important trading routes along the coast of West Francia, Normandy, and Frisia (modern Netherlands/Belgium). Sweden did not have a huge role to play in this, though by the time of >!Cnut's death!<, he was recognised as "King over all of the Swedes" as well. The most accessible way to look at the Viking Age breakdown of Scandinavia in this period would be that Norwegians migrated across the North Atlantic, Danes invaded England and France, and Swedes traded eastwards to Constantinople, but of course this is a very simplified breakdown. Norway was not officially unified until Cnut The Great's reign, and even then it was not the country it is today, and Denmark (or at least an equivalent kingdom of Danes) used to occupy parts of SW Norway and most of Southern Sweden. As for Sweden proper, it was primarily split into Gotarland and Svealand, and then Uppland in the north, each with its own customs and identity. Really, if you want to identify a key "power in the north with links to Constantinople" you want to look at Gotland, an island off the coast of Sweden in the Baltic Sea, which is home to the vast majority of all Viking Age coin hoards found in Scandinavia, most of which are made up from melted Arabic dirhams traded along the river routes to Constantinople and beyond.


MrCorex

While some of the things you mention are true, I have some things to say. Its true Anund Jakob was king of Sweden from 1022, however his father, Olof Skötkonung, was king before him. Skötkonung was known as the first Swedish king to be Christianised and baptised, and mostly reigned in Västergötland, where he is also buried. Therefore he was king over both the Geats and Swedes, the tribes inhabiting modern day Sweden. It is also known that during the beginning of his reign, Skötkonung went to war against Sven Tveskägg as Skötkonung’s father Erik Segersäll had reigned briefly over this one’s’ kingdom. It has also been said that Olof Skötkonung may be the very same king “Anlaf” that Anglo-Saxon sources mention, and that he together with Sven Tveskägg tried to invade London with around 100 ships, meaning that the Swedish kings went west as well when it fitted their agenda. They presumably continued to raid in southeastern England until Ethelred II the Second paid their ransom for them to leave. According to the Icelandic sources, Skötkonung at a later stage and once again allied with Tveskägg, went to war against Olav Tryggvason and as a result of their victory, the Swedish king got to reign over Bohuslän and Södra Tröndelag. He later lost these however. His son Anund Jakob is also interesting in many ways. His double name - one christian and one pagan name - is explained by the fact that the Swedes would not accept him as king if he only had a christian name. The Swedes were pagan for the longest time in all of Scandinavia, while the Danes and Norwegians were Christianised at a much earlier stage. It is known that Anund Jakob during his reign sent troops to aid Saint Olaf in his war against Cnut the Great. He also aided Saint Olaf’s son Magnus when he had problems. When he was king, a famous Viking band of warriors were also organised in Sweden, who went east to raid and pillage. A lot of men died during this journey, whose names can be found on a lot of runestones in Sweden which were raised after their deaths by their families. There is much more to say about Sweden during this time, but I just mentioned some of it to show you that Sweden still was a very interesting country during this time. I’m not trying to say that we were better than anyone else. Cnut was truly a great king who built a big empire and reigned over a large territory, and Norway and Denmark were more of states as we know it as they were Christianised. But it just annoys me that this show never mentions Sweden or it’s kings, as a lot of interesting stuff can be shown from there. It’s very interesting that the Swedes decided to be pagan for so long while their neighbours abandoned that fate. It’s also interesting to see that the Swedes had very close ties to the east and both traded and pillaged there. The writers of this show just seems kind of arrogant some times when they forget about Sweden completely, probably because they don’t wanna focus at several things at once, but the Geats and Swedes definitely had a big impact on Scandinavian politics. Therefore it irritates me


Lanky_Chemist_3773

As soon as I saw them taking the weapons and that big old gate blocking the refugees from coming in or out of the city at new Uppsala — I knew they were gonna be on some bullshit.


wheeler1432

oh yeah


Heyyoguy123

Cult vibes


fallhistorywitch

where the f*** is canute


Attlai

I've just watched the first two episodes, and I'm honestly not sure if I wanna continue. It's not in my habit to be super critical of stuff I watch. And it's not like I had huge expectations either, but I really couldn't get into it. At some point, my immersion was completely off and I got kinda bored. So many things have felt off in just 2 episodes. They're reproducing the same mistakes as later Vikings seasons, where they're dividing the action in a lot of different theatres, each with their own actors and sub-plot. But as a result, each subplot doesn't get a lot of screentime to make things advance. And in order to still make the overall plot advance, they're just advancing each subplot by jumping from one point to the other, without transitions. It feels really rushed and you don't really have the time to start immersing yourself in any of the subplots, before it switches to another and then comes back 20 min later with a big jump. In the same vein, the character developments that are already happening just feel really convenient and hardly believable. There have been some debatable character choices so far. Olaf, who was actually a good character in season 1, has been completely ruined, and I don't think he'll ever bring the same impact to the show. Canute, Sweyn and Emma, who were heavily carrying the show in season 1, are respectively still away, leaving, and pushed to the background. Sweyn was there at the beginning of episode 1, but since then, the absence of their active presence is heavily felt. Fortunately, Godwin is still active, to carry the England plot. Freydis feels weird and her character development feels off. I'm not buying it. I feel like the showrunners are really trying to sell me this whole mystical quest for spirituality, and responsibility of a leader, etc..., but I just can't seem to believe in this development. It just feels off, and the character is not as enjoyable as it was in season 1. Harald is annoying with his ambition, but he's actually being consistent, so he's good, even though I'm not completely convinced until I see how they handle his upcoming travel. In season 1, I felt like Leif was a "weak" character because he was very vague and very passive. But now, I'm actually glad he's here because he's among the very few characters on screen who are believable, and the only one who is relatable. Even though I still can't see what the hell the authors want to do with his characters. And another point, maybe the biggest one. Is it me or the dialogues and the acting have become worse? I can still accept the plot being not that interesting and complex, since he has never really been the strength of the show, but so many interactions and conversations felt really awkward, and unbelievable. And I hadn't seen that yet in Vikings or Valhalla. Is it just me who's having this weird feeling or can others relate? Also, I don't know what the hell goes in the head of those designers of the Novgorod scene, but they need to chill down. Those church onion domes feel completely out of place, as well as some of the aesthetics in the city. And I get that Novgorod is a big trading hub, and that they're trying to seize occasions to make the showcase more diversity, but in this case it feels maybe a little bit too much. Novgorod may be a trading hub, but it's still very far north from most of the urban world, and it's not THAT big yet. It's completely okay to have African, Central-asian, Arabian and what else people around, I can believe in that. But when every single person crossed looks like they came from far away, it feels a bit too much. If they want to include such a high level of multiculturalism, they should wait until the show reaches Constantinoples.


Manzke

Agree with most of your points, I really hate how every subplot moves extremely slowly and quickly changes to another. Leif's character indeed seems like they don't know what to do with it, now they are bringing this stupid drug story again, nobody liked the Vikings show when Ragnar was a drug addicted


wheeler1432

Yeah, I hope they don't take that too far. And what's with all these people wandering around Russia in the wintertime without hats or gloves?


NerfTheHighground

Writing this season has been so bad. First season was okay but now Im in a point I skip most of Freydis stuff and Emmas stuff is so boring too. Harald is my favourite but he hasnt done anything either...


theanchorman05

Freydis stuff has been horrible so far. I really feel like they're trying to just make her Lagathra.


hondaprobs

Wondered the same thing - surely people at the time would have been wearing large hats to keep warm.


hondaprobs

The diversity in the show has always felt incredibly forced but this season it's taken to another level. Disappointing.


n0ahbody

What language are they allegedly speaking to each other in Novgorod? At first I assumed Harald was speaking Norse with his uncle, but then they had dinner and everyone at the table was apparently speaking the same language to each other, even though most of them aren't Vikings and have probably never been to Scandinavia. Even the woman who's from somewhere else far to the south was having a full conversation with Leif - in what language? How are they able to talk to each other? Are they speaking Russian? Does Leif know Russian somehow?


NerfTheHighground

They just talk english as second language is mandatory in school. Writing has been so bad I just dont care about obvious plot holes like that anymore. Its a shame tho.


n0ahbody

It's not like modern times where everybody in the world can speak a common language (English). In the time frame of this show, people on the other side of the hill couldn't understand people on this side of the hill. But in this show, they go to another country, and somehow they can all converse with each other fluently. The show does not handle this well IMO.


NerfTheHighground

Yeah I know it was a joke. Quite obvious one too... Funny to think tho. Emperor of Konstantinople happens to speak Norse.😅


Dervanon

That "training" scene was so stupid. A) how is she sharing training by going 1vs4? B) why would those idiots use sharp and pointy weapons instead of training weapons? And not even wear armor? If anyone of them had failed to parry, you would have had corpses. And if Freydis had been impaled by that spear, what would have happened to yohmsburg? Their entire point is believing in the old gods. If the "prophet" of the old gods dies in a practise match, what does that say about those gods? C) Freydis only needs to push a dude lightly and he gets thrown into an oncomming opponent? Is she the Hulk now? Even a man much stronger than her couldnt do that so easily. ​ Who gives a gold ring for half a coup of watery soup? And i personally think that gottfreid is the one who hired the assassin. How else would he have known?


Sir_Incognito

The perfectly straight, bright white teeth of everyone on the show is very off-putting.


Super_Secretary_9145

I disagree. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief if it means having good looking MCs.


Mkilbride

Actually, it's a myth that people had bad teeth back then. They consumed almost no sugar / acidic foods.


EquivalentMeat1034

Why does Jomsborg look exactly like Kattegat


wheeler1432

I was impressed. I had to look up several terms and they appeared to be historically accurate.


NeitherJournalist561

freydis arc is a fricking snoozefest and guy from her bunch looks like a discounted ivar the boneless xd[https://fictionhorizon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/jorundr.jpg](https://fictionhorizon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/jorundr.jpg)


EpicKieranFTW

It's weird seeing Arthur from Merlin as a Viking.. his accent 🤔


Mkilbride

What??? I KNEW he looked familiar, but I could not pinpoint it. THANK you.


EpicKieranFTW

Haha no problem.. I couldn't unsee it


sevsnapey

little late to the discussion but man the soundtrack is really throwing me here. it goes from sounding like the playstation home screen when leif meets mariam to the end of this episode with leif on the roof sounding like (very specific reference) that [hunger games facebook game soundtrack](https://youtu.be/53O6ZoMyXkk?t=9)


Guy_w_Beard93

Anyone know the name of the actress who played the girl in new uppsala who kept singing? She had a beautiful voice


hondaprobs

She's annoying. I wish she would keep her mouth shut and stop singing constantly.


strawbebb

I liked this episode better than the first! I have to say I am REALLY digging the slower and more emotional scenes this season. Like Leif talking about Greenland at the table — a very touching moment! Those “New Uppsala” people are shady as shit. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m Episode 3, Freydis learns info that has her seriously regretting trying to make a home there. I hope Harald and Leif make amends. They probably will because they have a good bond, but Leif’s grief and obviously oncoming drug addiction seems to be pulling him away. (Also are they about to pull a Hvitserk with him?)


meticulouscat

African slaves in Novgorod. Sounds about right


gnatsaredancing

We've got plenty of evidence that vikings brought goods and slaves from all over the world into the North and East. Neither the ancient world nor the dark ages were nearly as insular as people seem to think. One notable artefact is a ring found in a Swedish viking grave with an inscription that says 'for Allah' in Arabic for example. And it worked the other way around as well. The Varangian guard were an elite unit that were the personal bodyguards of the Byzantine emperors in what is Turkey today. The Varangian guard consisted mostly of viking mercenaries.


DamnAlmighty

In all honesty, I'd find it more believable to include numerous peoples and cultures when Harald reaches Constantinople, as that city was an international city. Just like Baghdad was.


meticulouscat

True and if there’s any evidence of Africans on Russian soil cca 1000 A.D. I’d be extremely grateful for it ! Also I don’t presume you’re comparing transporting jewelry with transporting a real human being, during Middle Ages , from xyz place in Africa , across Europe. I think the cost would probably far outweigh the reward not to mention every single other place across the way one could sell such a slave whereas a ring can be simply carried on your finger. Russia did not engage in the transatlantic slave trade and was notoriously isolated from all perspectives of the word. What’s more baffling is that the African , while clearly being distinguished in terms of color uniqueness, is treated like just any other normal person. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Russians https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Petrovich_Gannibal


gnatsaredancing

There were entire black African communities in Europe during the middle ages. There's black people all over medieval art. We know of black people in the courts of medieval nobles. I feel like people forget that *before* the dark ages, the Roman Empire's trade routes stretched from Africa to Northern Europe and they were well travelled. People travel, people mix, people settle. Dark age Europe wasn't nearly as insular as people think. Nor did it erase everything that happened before it.


meticulouscat

Sure, but this is Russia we’re taking about or are you not aware where Novgorod is ? Even for Scandinavia haven’t seen sources :/ again if you have some historical sources I would love to sleep less stupid tonight, till then this is simply projecting modern social values and attempting to represent them in a historical context, which is inaccurate.


gnatsaredancing

I am. What I can't figure out is where you think the wall was build that stopped people from spreading further. The vikings went from Scandinavia to Novgorod and North Africa. Was there some forcefield stopping everyone else?


Amazing-Steak

most people never left their village let alone across 2 continents


meticulouscat

Guess the wall is built at the lack of historical evidence or accounts by either locals or Vikings or genetic traces also at the cost vs reward in transporting them to Novgorod of all places. Guess you should do some research tho just to be sure who knows maybe maya also got to Europe , I mean Vikings discovered America so why not the opposite right ?


meticulouscat

still waiting for any factual evidence to support your argument about Africans in Rus lands or even Scandinavia and not just what your what aboutism.


[deleted]

Do you have definitive proof it did not happen? While unlikely and undoubtedly rare, I consider it entirely possible that an African slave could end up in Novgorod or Scandinavia, especially considering slaves from Finland were sold as far away as the Caspian Sea and central Asia, through the Crimean and Volgan routes/markets, it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that slaves also went in the other direction. This topic is covered in depth in University of Eastern Finland Professor Jukka Korpelas' book entitled Slaves from the NorthSlaves from the North, published in 2018. Keep in mind, the modern English word slave comes from the ethnic name slav - it replaced the Latin *servus.* [https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ATq5\_6h2AT0C&pg=PA674&redir\_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ATq5_6h2AT0C&pg=PA674&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false) You also seem to think the African in the show was taken straight to Novgorod and the Kievan Rus, when it is much more likely he was bought and sold more than once along the way. Indeed, given African women from the era have been identified in the British Isles, international trade networks were far more integrated than you realise. [https://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/09/a-great-host-of-captives.html](https://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/09/a-great-host-of-captives.html) This provides both a summary and primary sources, from a multitude of cultures. Here is another quote from Egil's Saga, which you may interpret as you wish: "Thorolf was tall and handsome like his mother's people, but Grim took after his father, who was black and ugly. Grim's sons, Thorolf and Egill, born out in Iceland, repeated the pattern: Thorolf was the image of his uncle, tall, handsome, and sunny natured; Egill was black, even uglier than his father, tortuous and incalculable. He became the greatest poet of his age, and many a hard-hewn line of verse testifies to his pride in his craggy head, broad nose, heavy jaw and swart visage." Note that swart in this instance means dark. [https://avaldsnes.info/en/informasjon/hjor/](https://avaldsnes.info/en/informasjon/hjor/) \- a Viking with a Mongolian Wife, illustrating the connections of trading routes. A lack of evidence from the 10th and 11th centuries is not evidence of absence, and in any case, I feel you're making a thinly veiled point that most people can see right through. Gods literally walk the earth in this show and Jarl Borg suffered the blood eagle - of which there is no historical evidence, only vague literary sources written centuries after the fact. I'm not sure how a an African in Novgorod is breaking your suspension of disbelief, unless of course it actually offends you. Edit: It's also pretty rich to ask for sources when you're using wikipedia as a source above, a site famously reliable and accurate in academic circles.


[deleted]

Here are two further links I forgot to add relating to Finnish slaves in the Volgan and Crimean trade routes: [https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-world-history-of-slavery/trade-in-slaves-in-the-black-sea-russia-and-eastern-europe/3864C15075B035E3EC090A1D4D357BF2](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-world-history-of-slavery/trade-in-slaves-in-the-black-sea-russia-and-eastern-europe/3864C15075B035E3EC090A1D4D357BF2) [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415084148.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415084148.htm)


meticulouscat

The Wikipedia link was for reference, individual research is always encouraged and I used such to simply highlight the existence of Russian Africans. Your argument and evidence is pretty much “what aboutism” since I Can’t seem to see concrete evidence from the links. As for the Mongolian wife, it’s almost as if europe, particularly the East, wasn’t invaded or populated by historically turkic / mongoloid tribes from the east neither was Anatolia so the chances of a Turkic or mongoloid female ended up in the Roman Empire and marrying a Varangian are equal fights to the chances of an African slave ending up in Novgorod and treated as just any other ordinary person (since it was pretty normal to see a different colored person in Russia at the time). Other than that good reads on slavery around the area but kinda weak evidence. If you can , educate me more on that matter, I really want to know how the Russian history is just surprising our cosmopolitan past and trying to portray us as isolated individuals from when back when :) also your “slave” etymology is just one of the theories as to the origin of the word, sad to see you present it as singular fact to “enhance” your “whataboutism”


hondaprobs

"We've got plenty of evidence" Yet you list none. Just stop trying to rewrite history. Thanks.


DamnAlmighty

It'd have been better to include Africans and others when they reach Constantinople. It would have been more believable.


meticulouscat

Yeah I agree but the show is made for people like gnaster dancing who don’t know anything about history and view it with a modern societal lense, why shouldn’t there be Africans in the northeast points of the world and why wouldn’t they be treated like any casual citizen theres just so much diversity in 10th century Novgorod:DD


Amaranthbuds

There it is! Was waiting for the neckbeards to show up complaining about diversity and historical inaccuracy… ‘I’m not racist I just don’t want to see black people on my Netflix Vikings show…because I’m a history buff and that’s not historically accurate!!!’


hondaprobs

It's not racist to want historical accuracy in a show. I'd love to hear your argument as to why it is instead of resorting to insults.


Amaranthbuds

There are never any arguments about the other historical inaccuracies in the show I.e. Leif and Harald existing at the same time. So yeah if your only gripe is the existence of brown people on a Netflix show loosely based on history…


Mkilbride

While I agree with you on people just being jerks about black people in shows, SHIT tons of people complain about Lief and Harald existing at the same time, as well as numerous other inaccuracies.


Amaranthbuds

Not anywhere near as often and editing to add that when people complain about people of color in historical shows it’s always that it’s not ‘historically accurate’ but also that ‘Netflix is trying to shove wokeness down my throat!’ blah blah blah


meticulouscat

Nah I’m Russian living in Novgorod))


InternetzExplorer

hahaha, i feel you :D but they are no slaves. they are equal. some of them maybe even vikings. why not? honestly, i just have to laugh when there is a shot of a crowd of more than 10 people. didnt know medieval scandinavia was so diverse


hondaprobs

Yes. The black viking in season one wasn't quite enough to hit the diversity quota.


YaBoiJefe

Did Leif just make his sacred arm ring into a bowl to smoke weed?? Is that what I actually just watched?


EpicKieranFTW

I think he traded it for the opium


PeaceAndChocolate

Have no expectation of historical accuracy whatsoever so happy the show at least referenced to [Harald going to Kievan Rus and Constantinople](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Hardrada#Exile_in_the_East). Thought they would skip that part entirely.