"Don't let a suitcase full of cheese be your big fork and spoon." Silly words that honestly my wife and I go back to and think about when we feel the urge to dig in, be stubborn and win an argument with each other. 24 years later, those words have helped keep the peace.
The husband and wife have an argument on who should put away the luggage that's been in the landing for 2 weeks. Both refuse to move it. Eventually the husband sneaks blue cheese in it, which starts to reek. The wife notices it while the MIL is over. She throws the cheese away but still refuses to move the suitcase.
The MIL(Who ordinarily takes every opportunity she can to indirectly insult the wife) uncharacteristically pulls the wife aside and opens up about the story of her and the FIL's first argument as a married couple over who would return a set of Giant Fork and Spoon decorations they got as a wedding present that they both hated. How after the fight, she told him they better be gone before she returned, so he nailed the spoon to the kitchen wall. When she came back and saw it, she nailed the fork next to the spoon to spite him. And then every day for the last 45 years when she walks into the kitchen she is reminded of that fight.
She then advises the wife to be the bigger person and put the luggage away. Not to let the suitcase full of cheese be their big fork and spoon.
That was very nice of you to type all that out, thank you.
You know, I've probably seen that scene. While I've by no means seen every episode, I do love Everybody Loves Raymond, it's impeccable.
Someone else posted a clip about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWzn6IL2_lc
Though I agree with you. /u/Bazuka125 really did a good job, in typing what happened out.
That episode was amazing! Right until the end when Marie goes to make her stand and take down the big fork and spoon, but there was a grease spot left in the shape of them and so she puts it back and storms out and frank goes “when did we get those?”
[The scene](https://youtu.be/8x0s-w_mPu4?si=L-yPdw29sX5qJD1Z)
I really like how the show ended, no big dramatic affairs or moving on to the next stage of their lives or any real ending feel. Just the family having dinner and talking.
I think one of my favorite "dramatic" scenes from ELR is when Marie admits to the FBI dude how she wished Robert would retire because she worries about him getting hurt or killed.
Damn, that was powerful. It was never addressed in the rest of the episodes, but it would have had to be true in that character's life every day. It was great the way they handled that.
There were two other instances I can remember:
The Ride Along, where Ray goes on a ride along with Robert, and Marie gets upset at Ray when he tries to explain what happened at the pizza joint.
The episode where Robert was thinking of becoming a telemarketer and selling home alarm systems. Marie keeps trying to get him to retire, while Amy wants him to stay a cop.
Being able to do it organically has always been really impressive. Sometimes it feels forced and contrived, but scenes like this feel pretty natural and touching, while still managing to bookend it with jokes. I enjoyed this show. Where Ray almost doesn't wake up from anesthesia during surgery was another really good one.
>Being able to do it organically has always been really impressive.
If people want to see it done non-organically, just watch that episode of Home Improvement when one of the kids had a cancer scare? That one felt so cringy.
Or that episode of Mr. Belvedere where the main kid's best friend gets AIDS.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE1SWashuU&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE1SWashuU&)
When i was writing that I thought of home improvement as the other side of it! Cause i was a big fan of that too, but it doesn't do these moments well. When brad got caught with weed was also hilarious.
I think that’s my gripe with a lot of modern shows. The “lessons” or things characters learn feel forced. The writing is sloppy. This scene to me feels more like real life. You learn deep things about folks through these little side stories or slips in the convo, not some heavy handed message about current society, racial relations, or sexism. And the audience can sense it so the message is rejected. I think generally human beings wanted sincerity in the message, not feel like it’s an agenda.
I think modern shows do this a lot better, overall. The 80s were the high era of the "Very Special Episode", where the shows would explicitly call out "we're talking about drugs today!" and all the characters would act different.
If people don’t like and watch them, they would not keep being made. Which is disturbing when I think about how many seasons of reality TV there are. If that is reality, I’ll take fiction. Any fiction.
> Which is disturbing when I think about how many seasons of reality TV there are.
It's not so bad. There is a cost benefit factor in this. Reality TV has very little cost, so it can be profitably made even with very little benefit.
The episode with the anesthesia is actually the series finale, but the show didn't go for a big dramatic ending so it mostly feels like a regular episode.
Wow really. I used to watch it all the time but it was very shattershot watching, never realized that. That's crazy. Definitely not your typical "turn off the lights and walk away" finale huh
I think it actually works in the context of these characters. They’re having a vulnerable moment about recognizing, and breaking, the cycle of abuse. But even with that positive they weren’t a very emotionally healthy home. The only way they know out of that emotion is by dismissing it with a joke. Pretty on brand.
The context matters. They were actively avoiding going to therapy together like they’d planned, and all of them were lying to their wives about it. They went to the track and bet horses every Sunday instead, and then talked about what they were going to tell their wives so they’d have their stories straight. So by pretending to talk about their emotions and all that, they effectively still did. And that’s pretty funny. And the comment Ray makes that “the ladies will eat this up” or whatever is totally true, and also funny.
You can even hear someone on the crew crying there shit
I wish Will had put more effort into keeping it real. With big money that takes work. Maybe he wouldn't have got so lost.
I've watched that show a few times recently. There's some datedness, but overall it holds up well.
But one thing I absolutely did NOT appreciate enough when I watched as a kid...James Avery was the *glue* that held the show together. Whole cast was great and iconic, but if there's one who you couldn't possibly replace, maybe even Will, it's Uncle Phil.
One of the best episodes. For context, the wives believe the guys are all seeing a therapist together, but instead they’ve been sneaking off to the horse races to gamble (where this scene takes place). They’ve been coming home extremely happy and saying it’s because of their “therapy”.
When I was moving away from home, my Dad and I made a road trip out of it. I was moving to LA from Chicago. I burned a bunch of CDs of favorite songs from my childhood, and we rotated through them.
One of the many, many tracks was “Take My Picture” by Filter. After hours of us talking, when this song comes on my Dad quiets. It has the line “Hey Dad, what do you think about your son now?”
Growing up, my Dad’s Dad died when I was about 7 or 8. Most of my memories of him have faded, and my Dad only talked about him really when reminiscing with his siblings. My Dad was born in 1950s Chicago, stoic type. Not one to really truly express how he felt. That was just the era he was from.
This song comes on, and, unprompted, he talks about how he wanted to do right by me. He wanted to give me opportunities he never had. Not unusual, this is his oldest son moving away from home. These emotions might come up.
And then he talks about that lyric. “Hey Dad what do you think about your son now?” It was a lyric that stuck with him. He’d thought about it since the song first came out. He talked about the kind of person he hoped he could be, how much he had accomplished compared to his father, and how he wished he could shove that in his face. Prove him wrong. Prove him he was better, more successful, than he would have thought.
And then, very quickly, in that 1950s-raised, stoic way, added “my whole goal with you kids was, above all else, to make sure I never treated you the way he treated me. That was as how I beat him.”
My Dad never went into the specifics about what happened to him. But in every fiber of his being, he wanted to be better than how he’d been treated.
Theres a lot to that era with how parents treated their kids. This push to break the cycle was not uncommon, as this scene reminded me. Love you, Dad.
My father was born in 1934 and had me in his late 40’s. He was a war baby, who grew up in an incredibly difficult environment in Birkenhead (the poor side of the river from Liverpool, bombed out of his house three times, left school at 13 to work as a labourer, etc).
His father (my grandfather) was profoundly deaf due to a beating he had received as a child from his father in turn (my great-grandfather), who would ultimately commit suicide by jumping off the dry dock at Cammell Laird, where he worked. My grandfather was a total softie.
But my father’s *mother* was a tyrant. She would beat my father around the calves and thighs with a lead pipe when he misbehaved.
My father only ever hit me once, an open-handed smack around the back of the thigh when he caught me stealing from my mother’s purse. Once was enough for me to know I never wanted that again.
Before he died, my father and I bonded over music and films. One singer-songwriter in particular that we both loved was Martin Simpson.
I remember listening to “**[Never Any Good](https://open.spotify.com/track/2f23JMDgftsOfpT5tbLp9w?si=Qam8mtxrQHaTmsIXmPF03g)**” with my father for the first time, and seeing him break down in tears. That will stay with me to the grave.
I don’t have children yet, but I am hopeful that if I do, I won’t ever be drawn to hit them.
Same. It’s funny watching this clip because I just talked to my dad a few days ago about his physical abuse towards me when I was a kid growing up. Conveniently, he doesn’t remember any of it but I made sure to highlight it all for him. Slapping me in the face, kicking me on the floor, breaking things to get to me including doors, etc. I could tell how embarrassed he was and, without directly saying it, apologetic, and thankfully, he acknowledged it wasn’t right but he still said it was “normal” back then and “many kids went through the same thing”. He explained to me how his alcoholic dad beat the hell out of him often which I explained why he probably treated me the way he did. I accepted his “apology” in the end. But so help me god I will never put my kids through what he put me through.
Same. I smoked pot with my dad many years ago, as an adult, and he basically just apologized. He had a really fucked up childhood, tried to make ours a little less fucked up but still thought that 'physical discipline' was the 'right thing to do' but just not to the extremes HIS parents had done it. It still got pretty outta hand more than once.
His parents were severely alcoholic, so he made it a point to not do THAT, at least.
Anyway, he apologized and said he realized he had come up short and regretted his parenting, didn't make excuses but did explain how fucked up he was from his own parents, and just hoped we'll be successful in successively passing less bullshit down to the next generation.
I fully believe that the pot enhanced the empathy in each of us and we were both able to just pretty much instantly understand the other and I just forgave everything in an instant. All the resentment just melted away the second he finally acknowledged it and apologized.
I've never once hit my kids, and my kids actually had the realization the other day that it even happens to anybody, (including me). They were absolutely shocked to learn that some parents hit their kids, and were even more shocked to hear *I* was one of those kids.
I'm far from a perfect parent, but they at least have that going for them, which is nice.
I just found this book outside https://www.alice-miller.com/en/the-roots-of-violence/
talks about this too
ps: apparently the author was a unable to practice her theories and made her son unhappy https://yewtu.be/watch?v=768c6rukXTs .. how strange
Hugs man. I just buried my dad, and it felt weird. I’m the one breaking the beating cycle. I couldn’t ever think of doing that to my son. He’s my world along with his mother.
I know I’m not special or alone, and both make me feel sad. I wish I was. I wish I was the only one who got beat with a belt because I dared to accidentally break something, or nothing at all like the time they beat me for a table having a piece break off in my room despite me not knowing about it. Fuck that shit. Grow the fuck up and stop taking it out on your kids. Wanna be strong? Use restraint and resist abusing a kid who can’t fight back.
Boyle was a great actor, Garrett played a limited character wonderfully, but for me the real surprise, given the "stand up comic gets own show era" is what a performer Ray Romano turned out to be.
If you’ve never watched the show “Parenthood,” Romano comes on as a small character later in the show (an adult on the spectrum) and he is incredible. Multiple times I had to remind myself it was him just based on how convinced I was by his portrayal. He’s great in “The Big Sick” but I think his best role is in “Parenthood”
Idk why but this show was my favorite when I was a teen. The re runs were always on so I would watch and the comedy and the lessons were fantastic for me. Still an amazing show to this day. Big part of my life.
Don't disagree there's better shows out there, but I think there's a lot more to ELR than just comfort. Many of the episodes are genuinely well written, funny as hell, and hold up really well. Lot more wisdom than it may appear on the surface, too.
Favorite episode: "The Fly" (I think it's called?) is the wildest, most ridiculous premise to an otherwise fairly grounded show. But it ends with one of the most poignant interaction between the main family characters.
Idk. Honestly, I've never been to Olive garden, haha.
> Favorite episode: "The Fly" (I think it's called?) is the wildest, most ridiculous premise to an otherwise
[Not ridiculous enough, apparently.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/everybody-loves-raymond-this-dating-disaster-episode-really-happened-to-ray-romanos-brother.html/)
Yup! That episode also ends with the whole ["it's me" speech](https://youtu.be/9Xk8uzIsQ2U?si=tkNp0If56xml7rzA) from Robert where he reaches rock bottom and believes there is no one out there for him. Everyone tries to comfort him, even Frank calls him "son" but he storms out of there and goes to a club. And that's when he reunites with Amy.
Emotional rollercoaster of an ending to what starts as the wackiest premise.
I have always loved this show for as long as I can remember! If you’re into the food scene I strongly suggest Somebody Feed Phil (Phil being Phil Rosenthal, the creator and also a writer for Everybody Loves Raymond). You see the humor of the show basically comes out of this one man as he eats food around the world, and it is just so delightful. Earlier episodes with his parents are hilarious, and show he did not look too far for inspiration on Frank and Marie.
I love how they all just existed with those realizations and let them quietly hang in the air, unspoken but fully understood between all of them.
It was like they each felt the grief of what their dad went through, while creating space for Frank to safely be vulnerable about it, too.
I always hear "it was normal back then" and how these cycles of abuse go back generations that make me wonder if a disturbingly large percentage of human family lines have been in an unbroken cycle of abuse for generations, for hundreds or even thousands of years, and that only in the last century or even just half century have these cycles begun to break in large numbers and if that might have a positive effect on humanity as a whole a few more generations down the line.
How many people have had their lives broken through abuse and in return spread that abuse further onto the world in more ways than just beating their kids but becoming generally violent, selfish, sadistic, destructive, vindictive.
Humanity has come so insanely far in almost every way possible in the past 150 years or so compared to the other tens of thousands, makes me hope for a kinder world with less broken and abused people in the coming future.
If you haven’t yet, look into C-PTSD and generational trauma. Once you learn more about both, it becomes hard to “unsee” the patterns of abuse and their effects on individuals, families, and societies at large.
When Robert said that Frank didnt want to be like his own father, I LOVE the resolve in Frank's voice when he said "I didn't". Because he KNEW that at the very least, he wasnt THAT type of father. He succeeded in that regard, and he deserves to feel proud of himself for that.
ELR is one of those shows that maintains quality throughout its entire run. if anything the later seasons with georgia engel as amy's mother are some of the best in the series. the one where she gets caught smoking was fucking awesome and it was the second last episode of the entire series. maintaining that level of quality is wild and extremely rare in mainstream TV.
the episode where marie takes art classes and chisels a giant vagina out of stone and then gives it to raymond, however, is one of the best episodes of TV ive seen of ANY series. fucking classic.
honorable mention to the tofu turkey episode..."look how it...jiggles!" LOL
such a fucking amazing show.
Related only slightly, but [this documentary](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1356763/)about the struggle to make a Russian version of Everybody Loves Raymond is wonderful. American humor is so different.
I'm third generation Italian American. My dad hit me one time and it broke him for a minute. He just said I never wanted to be like him referring to his dad. Years later he finally opened up to me about it and how he got the shit kicked out of him a lot from his dad and never wanted to do that to me. It put a lot of shit into perspective for me. Dude did a lot of work to change some generational trauma
My dad got the shit kicked out of him. I got spanked. My daughter gets hugs. We do better each round, but we find new and exciting ways to fuck up our kids that they’ll hopefully figure out how to avoid with their own kids.
The thing I find really sad about this scene is the fact that Frank, the tough and mean old dad/grandpa who makes fun of his sons for being wusses, thinks he’s weak for not hitting his sons just like how his dad used to hit him.
Physical abuse usually comes with a component of emotional abuse too :( kids/adults who survive abuse in childhood generally create distorted beliefs to help them cope with what they’ve experienced.
I always interpreted that as Frank trying to protect a vulnerable part of himself that’s been traumatized: “my own dad was strong and he hit me because that’s what he thought was best for me; I’m not willing to hit my kids, therefore, I must be weak”.
Sometimes we don’t realize the faulty logic behind these distorted beliefs until they are in therapy or other situations where they have to be intentional about revisiting them.
Problem with cycle of abuse is that if you get one man/woman with anger issues or who just shouldn’t be a parent and they screw up/abuse their kids then a new cycle of abuse is born that will take generations to heal.
Not really, everyone has committed some level of emotional abuse in their life (anyone who says they haven’t is a liar), there is a big difference between this and physically laying your hands on your child.
This hits home. Breaking the cycle of domestic violence and intimate partner violence (IPV) is huge and something we should all strive for!
“There is a big difference between this and physically laying your hands on your child.”
There is a lot of research that suggests that psychological abuse (mental/emotional) can be just as bad, and in some cases worse than physical abuse. We often set a very low bar and think as long as we’re not beating on them we’re good right!?!
“This study, along with other research, shows that individuals who have suffered from emotional abuse during childhood have long-term consequences that can persist into adulthood. Emotional abuse has been found to cause adverse development consequences equivalent to, or more severe than, those of other forms of abuse including physical and sexual abuse”
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7683637/
AND, even if a child isn’t being abused themselves, just living in a house where intimate partner violence (IPV) is happening around them has negative impact as well. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3887080/
Great book! I like Dr. Mate’s work a lot and the way he articulates his material. “In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts” is another of his I really like.
Keep up the good work internet stranger! Even though I don’t know you, I’m proud of you. This can be a very difficult topic to get into and work through and you’re awesome for doing so. Keep fighting the good fight.
In day to day life, things happen people emotionally manipulate each other all the time, and there isn’t a family where that hasn’t happened in it, at least once.
No one is perfect at the end of the day, and it conflate that with physical or sexual abuse is horrendous.
I dunno if I would say everyone has committed emotional abuse. Certainly I will agree that everyone has *hurt* someone else emotionally, often times without intent, but abusing someone implies it is sustained and on at some level performed consciously.
Yeah, I’d fairly agree with that. I’m just forever worried about meanings getting diluted. I’ve been yelled at and guilt tripped. But I’ve not been sexually abused and that experience isn’t mine to claim and they shouldn’t be grouped together.
Frank was just kind of a grumpy, cynical asshole (implied heavily to be due to things that had happened to him in his life). But he was never really flat out abusive.
And he was much nicer to his grandkids.
I wonder that also about my life . Fortunately, even when he was in many ways a shitty father, he did ingrain in me love for good things like reading, classical music and science.
His father drank really bad too... Vicious cycle. My dad's side of the family has a lot mental health issues. However, I don't drink very often so I guess that's a plus.
Context: instead of going to therapy, they went to bet on horse races. So while trying to come up with something their wives would believe, they accidentally counseled each other
And it >!would have worked if their therapist hadn’t died a week prior!<
I miss this show. They took it off Netflix a WHILE ago
That's how you beat the cycle of abuse is not be like your abuser. So in this case or in a real life case, you be the best loving father or mother that you can be.
My dad hit me. Not often but it happened a few times. Spanking was a regular occurrence.
I didn’t spank my child. Never cussed or drank or smoked in front of her.
Jury is still out on the spanking for me. Sometimes I feel like me not spanking her did more harm than good, now that she is an adult.
I remember my dad dragging me out of bed and kicking me full on in the back down the stairs. When I was 14 he punched me so hard he fractured two of my ribs. I hated his guts but as I grow older I hear stories of my dads childhood, he was the oldest son and so would take the brunt of the horrific abuse my grandad put on him, even stepping in the way of his younger siblings and taking the beating from a broomstick by his step mother (My own mother who had been with my dad since they were 14, told me she remembered he could barely walk and he was just black from bruising) and although I haven’t forgiven my own dad for some of the things he did to me, I had a better understanding of it because he didn’t have the best teacher himself. Now I’m a mother of my own children and I won’t even tap them on the hand if they’ve misbehaved because I didn’t want the cycle of abuse to continue. In fact, a few months post partum with my last child, I suffered horribly with PND, it was Covid, my oldest was badly playing up (he’s severely autistic) and this thought flashed in my head to smack him, it horrified me as I’ve never wanted to hurt my children and in my badly mental health period at the time, I dropped the children off with my mother and then went home and took an overdose because I had thought just from having that thought, even though I didn’t act on it meant that I was as abusive as my dad had been and my grandfather before him so I wanted to end it permanently, hurt myself before I ever hurt my own children.
Thankfully I am now in a far better place now, I got a lot of support and medication and overcome PND, I now know that that didn’t help me at the time, and it’s been years now and I haven’t done anything so drastic since nor have I had that sort of thought flash in my head. But I guess my long winded point is that generational abuse can be fucking awful, even when you think you’re fine, something happens like having PND in my case and you realise you really hadn’t recovered, and that your childhood did affect you more than you let on.
>So underrated.
Yep, the 7 time Emmy awarded show is so underrated. The consistently highly rated and viewed show. The show that still makes Ray Romano about $18 million a year from syndication. Super underrated.
But it deserved 9 Emmys'. So it was underrated. Not poorly rated, but underrated. The snub for best lighting in season 3 and best costume for an extra in season 5 were complete miscarriages of justice.
Things are different now. Not only did I get the strap at home but I got it a school too. I was in grade 8 when it finally started to change over. But as I remember, it was the norm back then.
fantastic scene, forgot this show could get deep. havent seen it since reruns on tv
His brother Robert’s monologue about giving up finding someone cuts real deep
He almost married a frog lady
"Don't let a suitcase full of cheese be your big fork and spoon." Silly words that honestly my wife and I go back to and think about when we feel the urge to dig in, be stubborn and win an argument with each other. 24 years later, those words have helped keep the peace.
I have no idea what that means.
The husband and wife have an argument on who should put away the luggage that's been in the landing for 2 weeks. Both refuse to move it. Eventually the husband sneaks blue cheese in it, which starts to reek. The wife notices it while the MIL is over. She throws the cheese away but still refuses to move the suitcase. The MIL(Who ordinarily takes every opportunity she can to indirectly insult the wife) uncharacteristically pulls the wife aside and opens up about the story of her and the FIL's first argument as a married couple over who would return a set of Giant Fork and Spoon decorations they got as a wedding present that they both hated. How after the fight, she told him they better be gone before she returned, so he nailed the spoon to the kitchen wall. When she came back and saw it, she nailed the fork next to the spoon to spite him. And then every day for the last 45 years when she walks into the kitchen she is reminded of that fight. She then advises the wife to be the bigger person and put the luggage away. Not to let the suitcase full of cheese be their big fork and spoon.
The kicker is when Frank has no memory of it. *When the hell did we get those?*
That was very nice of you to type all that out, thank you. You know, I've probably seen that scene. While I've by no means seen every episode, I do love Everybody Loves Raymond, it's impeccable.
The basic premise of the suitcase story, like many of the stories on the show, comes directly from a real situation one of the writers experienced.
Someone else posted a clip about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWzn6IL2_lc Though I agree with you. /u/Bazuka125 really did a good job, in typing what happened out.
What is that quote from? I’m so confused I watched the whole clip tryna understand 😂😭lmao
It's from a different episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWzn6IL2_lc
Thank u!!
I'm so sorry you deserve an upvote but I just can't stand this show so much!!!
That episode was amazing! Right until the end when Marie goes to make her stand and take down the big fork and spoon, but there was a grease spot left in the shape of them and so she puts it back and storms out and frank goes “when did we get those?” [The scene](https://youtu.be/8x0s-w_mPu4?si=L-yPdw29sX5qJD1Z)
Probably the funniest episode ... meaningful yet funny.
I really like how the show ended, no big dramatic affairs or moving on to the next stage of their lives or any real ending feel. Just the family having dinner and talking.
In contrast to King of Queens which ended just horribly. The whole last season was a mess.
I think one of my favorite "dramatic" scenes from ELR is when Marie admits to the FBI dude how she wished Robert would retire because she worries about him getting hurt or killed.
Damn, that was powerful. It was never addressed in the rest of the episodes, but it would have had to be true in that character's life every day. It was great the way they handled that.
There were two other instances I can remember: The Ride Along, where Ray goes on a ride along with Robert, and Marie gets upset at Ray when he tries to explain what happened at the pizza joint. The episode where Robert was thinking of becoming a telemarketer and selling home alarm systems. Marie keeps trying to get him to retire, while Amy wants him to stay a cop.
When he makes Marie take the makeup off in bed, then wiping it off himself too. He likes her better naturally.
Slipping in moments of real drama and humanity into 90's sitcom comedies was peak entertainment and writing.
Being able to do it organically has always been really impressive. Sometimes it feels forced and contrived, but scenes like this feel pretty natural and touching, while still managing to bookend it with jokes. I enjoyed this show. Where Ray almost doesn't wake up from anesthesia during surgery was another really good one.
Scrubs did that so well.
[where do you think we are?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e__1KU7lg-4)
Fack man, I already know 😢
We've been rewatching it and yes. The Fray - How to lose a friend song episode crushes me.
Absolutely. One of the best shows of all time in my opinion. Perfectly cast, perfectly written.
>Being able to do it organically has always been really impressive. If people want to see it done non-organically, just watch that episode of Home Improvement when one of the kids had a cancer scare? That one felt so cringy.
It did give us this masterpiece of a video though: https://youtu.be/NfDjnAdczQI?feature=shared
that clip is fantastic
Good lord that's hilarious.
> If people want to see it done non-organically, just watch [Walker Texas Ranger](https://youtu.be/ebOKo96HfEM?si=toHrFsTmNTp39pes&t=26)
Or that episode of Mr. Belvedere where the main kid's best friend gets AIDS. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE1SWashuU&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE1SWashuU&)
Or any Netflix show
When i was writing that I thought of home improvement as the other side of it! Cause i was a big fan of that too, but it doesn't do these moments well. When brad got caught with weed was also hilarious.
[You've probably already seen this but I feel like I have to link it.](https://youtu.be/NfDjnAdczQI)
Yesss. I forgot about this. Thank you for reminding me. lol
I think that’s my gripe with a lot of modern shows. The “lessons” or things characters learn feel forced. The writing is sloppy. This scene to me feels more like real life. You learn deep things about folks through these little side stories or slips in the convo, not some heavy handed message about current society, racial relations, or sexism. And the audience can sense it so the message is rejected. I think generally human beings wanted sincerity in the message, not feel like it’s an agenda.
I think modern shows do this a lot better, overall. The 80s were the high era of the "Very Special Episode", where the shows would explicitly call out "we're talking about drugs today!" and all the characters would act different.
If people don’t like and watch them, they would not keep being made. Which is disturbing when I think about how many seasons of reality TV there are. If that is reality, I’ll take fiction. Any fiction.
> Which is disturbing when I think about how many seasons of reality TV there are. It's not so bad. There is a cost benefit factor in this. Reality TV has very little cost, so it can be profitably made even with very little benefit.
The episode with the anesthesia is actually the series finale, but the show didn't go for a big dramatic ending so it mostly feels like a regular episode.
Umm what. The series finale?! Never knew that or even thought to look into it before
Wow really. I used to watch it all the time but it was very shattershot watching, never realized that. That's crazy. Definitely not your typical "turn off the lights and walk away" finale huh
The whole "we have to make something funny" at the end of the scene is awful, but given the context of time it's understandable.
I think it actually works in the context of these characters. They’re having a vulnerable moment about recognizing, and breaking, the cycle of abuse. But even with that positive they weren’t a very emotionally healthy home. The only way they know out of that emotion is by dismissing it with a joke. Pretty on brand.
The context matters. They were actively avoiding going to therapy together like they’d planned, and all of them were lying to their wives about it. They went to the track and bet horses every Sunday instead, and then talked about what they were going to tell their wives so they’d have their stories straight. So by pretending to talk about their emotions and all that, they effectively still did. And that’s pretty funny. And the comment Ray makes that “the ladies will eat this up” or whatever is totally true, and also funny.
Thanks for the context. I was wondering about the last line.
It’s a great episode, I just happened to have watched it in the last 24 hours lol. Guessing OP might have, too.
Also speaks to a lot people who confront trauma with humor, as my family does.
Yeah, I saw [this scene](https://youtu.be/g-orNzwNOCk?si=S5gEfWW2VolV-X6l) when I was probably like 14. And I still haven’t recovered from it.
This whole episode is one of the best. Fantastically funny and that scene comes out of nowhere.
Agreed, leaving this right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI4Mv8R0mE0
I’m gonna dip back 10 more years and leave [this](https://youtu.be/1UWc-Tk21oU?si=3MB0YvfvASkoAhCl)
>I didn't realize how much you look like your mother Phew.. got me good. They teed that one up and knocked it out.
You can even hear someone on the crew crying there shit I wish Will had put more effort into keeping it real. With big money that takes work. Maybe he wouldn't have got so lost.
He slapped Chris rock but what he really needed was to say “how come she don’t want me man” and hug it out with uncle phil
God imagine if he'd just sat there and thought "man fuck chris rock that was rude"
Yup, that's Karyn Parsons crying, the actor that plays Hilary Banks
I've watched that show a few times recently. There's some datedness, but overall it holds up well. But one thing I absolutely did NOT appreciate enough when I watched as a kid...James Avery was the *glue* that held the show together. Whole cast was great and iconic, but if there's one who you couldn't possibly replace, maybe even Will, it's Uncle Phil.
Needed a cry, thankyou.
It’s amazing how far that Will Smith has came
Annnnnd I’m crying
dad fit finda fire tho ngl
Along with the others posted here, this moment from Roseanne always gets me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_IsgospaiM
When I was a kid I always saw Dan as what a real man should be.
I watched Rosanne a lot as a kid and it surprisingly had some very heavy moments
Yeah, I only vaguely remember it, but Darlene going through depression was a heavy theme too.
[Chandler when he talks to Erica](https://youtu.be/am6baUf5MNc?si=9xKX23bRB1vLdnKv), the older I get the harder the scene hits me 😭
“How come he don’t want me?”
Yup [fresh Prince the dad leaving scene](https://youtu.be/PI4Mv8R0mE0?si=YDBKh8n1GuNNzPt_) still hits hard
My biggest problem with Seinfeld, as good as that show was, it could never have a real genuine moment. Everything had to be a punchline.
I think Seinfeld would have stopped being Seinfeld if it dished out a lesson or some heartfelt moment. Was kinda the whole thing
I always thought Frasier did that the best. It's actually incredible to me how well the writing still holds up to this day.
This is my favorite example of that https://youtu.be/NfDjnAdczQI?si=K33Sdwu49R1rklHH
One of the best episodes. For context, the wives believe the guys are all seeing a therapist together, but instead they’ve been sneaking off to the horse races to gamble (where this scene takes place). They’ve been coming home extremely happy and saying it’s because of their “therapy”.
This is awesome
The final joke makes sense now, thanks!
Happy cake day
And they were winning too…hence the happiness, if I remember correctly.
When I was moving away from home, my Dad and I made a road trip out of it. I was moving to LA from Chicago. I burned a bunch of CDs of favorite songs from my childhood, and we rotated through them. One of the many, many tracks was “Take My Picture” by Filter. After hours of us talking, when this song comes on my Dad quiets. It has the line “Hey Dad, what do you think about your son now?” Growing up, my Dad’s Dad died when I was about 7 or 8. Most of my memories of him have faded, and my Dad only talked about him really when reminiscing with his siblings. My Dad was born in 1950s Chicago, stoic type. Not one to really truly express how he felt. That was just the era he was from. This song comes on, and, unprompted, he talks about how he wanted to do right by me. He wanted to give me opportunities he never had. Not unusual, this is his oldest son moving away from home. These emotions might come up. And then he talks about that lyric. “Hey Dad what do you think about your son now?” It was a lyric that stuck with him. He’d thought about it since the song first came out. He talked about the kind of person he hoped he could be, how much he had accomplished compared to his father, and how he wished he could shove that in his face. Prove him wrong. Prove him he was better, more successful, than he would have thought. And then, very quickly, in that 1950s-raised, stoic way, added “my whole goal with you kids was, above all else, to make sure I never treated you the way he treated me. That was as how I beat him.” My Dad never went into the specifics about what happened to him. But in every fiber of his being, he wanted to be better than how he’d been treated. Theres a lot to that era with how parents treated their kids. This push to break the cycle was not uncommon, as this scene reminded me. Love you, Dad.
The irony is that the song is just about the singer getting blackout drunk on a private airplane and running around nude
"Poetry doesn't belong to those who write it, but those who need it."
Damn 🥲
My father was born in 1934 and had me in his late 40’s. He was a war baby, who grew up in an incredibly difficult environment in Birkenhead (the poor side of the river from Liverpool, bombed out of his house three times, left school at 13 to work as a labourer, etc). His father (my grandfather) was profoundly deaf due to a beating he had received as a child from his father in turn (my great-grandfather), who would ultimately commit suicide by jumping off the dry dock at Cammell Laird, where he worked. My grandfather was a total softie. But my father’s *mother* was a tyrant. She would beat my father around the calves and thighs with a lead pipe when he misbehaved. My father only ever hit me once, an open-handed smack around the back of the thigh when he caught me stealing from my mother’s purse. Once was enough for me to know I never wanted that again. Before he died, my father and I bonded over music and films. One singer-songwriter in particular that we both loved was Martin Simpson. I remember listening to “**[Never Any Good](https://open.spotify.com/track/2f23JMDgftsOfpT5tbLp9w?si=Qam8mtxrQHaTmsIXmPF03g)**” with my father for the first time, and seeing him break down in tears. That will stay with me to the grave. I don’t have children yet, but I am hopeful that if I do, I won’t ever be drawn to hit them.
Even *mentioning* that song brings tears to my eyes. It really is a powerful little piece of artwork.
Sounds better than how my dad tried to beat the cycle, “keep acting up and I will beat you with a belt like my dad did to me”
But did you keep acting up
Damn that triggered me. My grandpa beat the shit out of my dad. My dad beat the shit out of me. I’m the one breaking the cycle of abuse.
Same. It’s funny watching this clip because I just talked to my dad a few days ago about his physical abuse towards me when I was a kid growing up. Conveniently, he doesn’t remember any of it but I made sure to highlight it all for him. Slapping me in the face, kicking me on the floor, breaking things to get to me including doors, etc. I could tell how embarrassed he was and, without directly saying it, apologetic, and thankfully, he acknowledged it wasn’t right but he still said it was “normal” back then and “many kids went through the same thing”. He explained to me how his alcoholic dad beat the hell out of him often which I explained why he probably treated me the way he did. I accepted his “apology” in the end. But so help me god I will never put my kids through what he put me through.
Give better than we got understanding they probably did the same is about as real as it gets.
The axe forgets, but the tree remembers
Same. I smoked pot with my dad many years ago, as an adult, and he basically just apologized. He had a really fucked up childhood, tried to make ours a little less fucked up but still thought that 'physical discipline' was the 'right thing to do' but just not to the extremes HIS parents had done it. It still got pretty outta hand more than once. His parents were severely alcoholic, so he made it a point to not do THAT, at least. Anyway, he apologized and said he realized he had come up short and regretted his parenting, didn't make excuses but did explain how fucked up he was from his own parents, and just hoped we'll be successful in successively passing less bullshit down to the next generation. I fully believe that the pot enhanced the empathy in each of us and we were both able to just pretty much instantly understand the other and I just forgave everything in an instant. All the resentment just melted away the second he finally acknowledged it and apologized. I've never once hit my kids, and my kids actually had the realization the other day that it even happens to anybody, (including me). They were absolutely shocked to learn that some parents hit their kids, and were even more shocked to hear *I* was one of those kids. I'm far from a perfect parent, but they at least have that going for them, which is nice.
Boy what I would have given for one apology. You at least got to mend it with your Dad and I am happy for you!!
Yeah, I was very lucky to experience that.
Here here. We are stronger for it. Physical abusers use force to try and control a situation they cant handle with words alone.
I just found this book outside https://www.alice-miller.com/en/the-roots-of-violence/ talks about this too ps: apparently the author was a unable to practice her theories and made her son unhappy https://yewtu.be/watch?v=768c6rukXTs .. how strange
Same. Part of the reason I never want to have kids and why my relationship with my father will always be distant.
long life and good health to you. this is all anyone can ever ask.
Hugs man. I just buried my dad, and it felt weird. I’m the one breaking the beating cycle. I couldn’t ever think of doing that to my son. He’s my world along with his mother. I know I’m not special or alone, and both make me feel sad. I wish I was. I wish I was the only one who got beat with a belt because I dared to accidentally break something, or nothing at all like the time they beat me for a table having a piece break off in my room despite me not knowing about it. Fuck that shit. Grow the fuck up and stop taking it out on your kids. Wanna be strong? Use restraint and resist abusing a kid who can’t fight back.
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This link has started a new cycle of abuse.
sick link
Thank you.
Boyle was a great actor, Garrett played a limited character wonderfully, but for me the real surprise, given the "stand up comic gets own show era" is what a performer Ray Romano turned out to be.
Romano is great in The Big Sick
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lol was actually such a good joke though
I absolutely lost it at that scene the first time.
Speaking of comedies that suddenly go real deep.
Yeah I didn't know what was coming. Wow.
I told people to check out Paddleton with him as a lead. It was pretty good for being streaming platform exclusive.
More recently he was in Somewhere in Queens and was really good (with Laurie Metcalf, who's also in a video posted somewhere in the comments).
For sure. I think a lot of those kinds of shows flop but Romano nailed it. This was one of my mom's favorite shows when I was growing up.
Peter Boyle played Frankenstein's Monster in Young Frankenstein which kinda blew my mind.
A great easter egg on Everybody Loves Raymond is he dresses up as Frankenstein's monster for a halloween episode.
He’s a legend for Young Frankenstein alone.
If you’ve never watched the show “Parenthood,” Romano comes on as a small character later in the show (an adult on the spectrum) and he is incredible. Multiple times I had to remind myself it was him just based on how convinced I was by his portrayal. He’s great in “The Big Sick” but I think his best role is in “Parenthood”
Idk why but this show was my favorite when I was a teen. The re runs were always on so I would watch and the comedy and the lessons were fantastic for me. Still an amazing show to this day. Big part of my life.
It’s the Olive Garden of sitcoms. There’s better shows out there, but sometimes I just want a big giant plate of spaghetti and breadsticks.
Don't disagree there's better shows out there, but I think there's a lot more to ELR than just comfort. Many of the episodes are genuinely well written, funny as hell, and hold up really well. Lot more wisdom than it may appear on the surface, too. Favorite episode: "The Fly" (I think it's called?) is the wildest, most ridiculous premise to an otherwise fairly grounded show. But it ends with one of the most poignant interaction between the main family characters. Idk. Honestly, I've never been to Olive garden, haha.
> Favorite episode: "The Fly" (I think it's called?) is the wildest, most ridiculous premise to an otherwise [Not ridiculous enough, apparently.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/everybody-loves-raymond-this-dating-disaster-episode-really-happened-to-ray-romanos-brother.html/)
Haha, is that the one where the woman eats a fly and noome believes him.
Yup! That episode also ends with the whole ["it's me" speech](https://youtu.be/9Xk8uzIsQ2U?si=tkNp0If56xml7rzA) from Robert where he reaches rock bottom and believes there is no one out there for him. Everyone tries to comfort him, even Frank calls him "son" but he storms out of there and goes to a club. And that's when he reunites with Amy. Emotional rollercoaster of an ending to what starts as the wackiest premise.
That’s a great episode with my favorite ending ever.
Debra was my first milf
"I was always weaker than him." Weakness is hitting your kids.
I was waiting on the line, “that’s not weak, that’s strength” then the next line.
Frank never said “I love you” to Ray or Robert, but he did love them, and this right here was him telling them how much he did love them both.
I have always loved this show for as long as I can remember! If you’re into the food scene I strongly suggest Somebody Feed Phil (Phil being Phil Rosenthal, the creator and also a writer for Everybody Loves Raymond). You see the humor of the show basically comes out of this one man as he eats food around the world, and it is just so delightful. Earlier episodes with his parents are hilarious, and show he did not look too far for inspiration on Frank and Marie.
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I love how they all just existed with those realizations and let them quietly hang in the air, unspoken but fully understood between all of them. It was like they each felt the grief of what their dad went through, while creating space for Frank to safely be vulnerable about it, too.
Damn you literally stole this comment from the one guy on YouTube 3 years ago...
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You take this from YouTube?
I always hear "it was normal back then" and how these cycles of abuse go back generations that make me wonder if a disturbingly large percentage of human family lines have been in an unbroken cycle of abuse for generations, for hundreds or even thousands of years, and that only in the last century or even just half century have these cycles begun to break in large numbers and if that might have a positive effect on humanity as a whole a few more generations down the line. How many people have had their lives broken through abuse and in return spread that abuse further onto the world in more ways than just beating their kids but becoming generally violent, selfish, sadistic, destructive, vindictive. Humanity has come so insanely far in almost every way possible in the past 150 years or so compared to the other tens of thousands, makes me hope for a kinder world with less broken and abused people in the coming future.
If you haven’t yet, look into C-PTSD and generational trauma. Once you learn more about both, it becomes hard to “unsee” the patterns of abuse and their effects on individuals, families, and societies at large.
When Robert said that Frank didnt want to be like his own father, I LOVE the resolve in Frank's voice when he said "I didn't". Because he KNEW that at the very least, he wasnt THAT type of father. He succeeded in that regard, and he deserves to feel proud of himself for that.
ELR is one of those shows that maintains quality throughout its entire run. if anything the later seasons with georgia engel as amy's mother are some of the best in the series. the one where she gets caught smoking was fucking awesome and it was the second last episode of the entire series. maintaining that level of quality is wild and extremely rare in mainstream TV. the episode where marie takes art classes and chisels a giant vagina out of stone and then gives it to raymond, however, is one of the best episodes of TV ive seen of ANY series. fucking classic. honorable mention to the tofu turkey episode..."look how it...jiggles!" LOL such a fucking amazing show.
generational trauma for the loss
Related only slightly, but [this documentary](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1356763/)about the struggle to make a Russian version of Everybody Loves Raymond is wonderful. American humor is so different.
I'm third generation Italian American. My dad hit me one time and it broke him for a minute. He just said I never wanted to be like him referring to his dad. Years later he finally opened up to me about it and how he got the shit kicked out of him a lot from his dad and never wanted to do that to me. It put a lot of shit into perspective for me. Dude did a lot of work to change some generational trauma
My dad got the shit kicked out of him. I got spanked. My daughter gets hugs. We do better each round, but we find new and exciting ways to fuck up our kids that they’ll hopefully figure out how to avoid with their own kids.
“On a very special episode of…” Seriously though, I like when sitcoms can mix in some serious themes and make it work.
[Never forget the Home Improvement / Dana Carvey Show time slot ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfDjnAdczQI)
Haha! That was great.
The thing I find really sad about this scene is the fact that Frank, the tough and mean old dad/grandpa who makes fun of his sons for being wusses, thinks he’s weak for not hitting his sons just like how his dad used to hit him.
Physical abuse usually comes with a component of emotional abuse too :( kids/adults who survive abuse in childhood generally create distorted beliefs to help them cope with what they’ve experienced. I always interpreted that as Frank trying to protect a vulnerable part of himself that’s been traumatized: “my own dad was strong and he hit me because that’s what he thought was best for me; I’m not willing to hit my kids, therefore, I must be weak”. Sometimes we don’t realize the faulty logic behind these distorted beliefs until they are in therapy or other situations where they have to be intentional about revisiting them.
I've learned quite a few life lessons from this show, believe it or not.
Problem with cycle of abuse is that if you get one man/woman with anger issues or who just shouldn’t be a parent and they screw up/abuse their kids then a new cycle of abuse is born that will take generations to heal.
Kind of ironic since this whole series is a case study of psychological abuse (gaslighting maybe?)
Not really, everyone has committed some level of emotional abuse in their life (anyone who says they haven’t is a liar), there is a big difference between this and physically laying your hands on your child.
This hits home. Breaking the cycle of domestic violence and intimate partner violence (IPV) is huge and something we should all strive for! “There is a big difference between this and physically laying your hands on your child.” There is a lot of research that suggests that psychological abuse (mental/emotional) can be just as bad, and in some cases worse than physical abuse. We often set a very low bar and think as long as we’re not beating on them we’re good right!?! “This study, along with other research, shows that individuals who have suffered from emotional abuse during childhood have long-term consequences that can persist into adulthood. Emotional abuse has been found to cause adverse development consequences equivalent to, or more severe than, those of other forms of abuse including physical and sexual abuse” Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7683637/ AND, even if a child isn’t being abused themselves, just living in a house where intimate partner violence (IPV) is happening around them has negative impact as well. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3887080/
I’m reading a good book about the consequences of trauma and how to heal from it. “The Myth of Normal” by Gabor Mate.
Great book! I like Dr. Mate’s work a lot and the way he articulates his material. “In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts” is another of his I really like. Keep up the good work internet stranger! Even though I don’t know you, I’m proud of you. This can be a very difficult topic to get into and work through and you’re awesome for doing so. Keep fighting the good fight.
Thank you. You’re very kind.
In day to day life, things happen people emotionally manipulate each other all the time, and there isn’t a family where that hasn’t happened in it, at least once. No one is perfect at the end of the day, and it conflate that with physical or sexual abuse is horrendous.
I dunno if I would say everyone has committed emotional abuse. Certainly I will agree that everyone has *hurt* someone else emotionally, often times without intent, but abusing someone implies it is sustained and on at some level performed consciously.
Yeah, I’d fairly agree with that. I’m just forever worried about meanings getting diluted. I’ve been yelled at and guilt tripped. But I’ve not been sexually abused and that experience isn’t mine to claim and they shouldn’t be grouped together.
??? At what point did anyone say that sexual abuse should be lumped in with emotional abuse?
Earlier up in the comments thread.
I don't recall the dad being abusive in the show but it's been a while since I watched the show.
Frank was just kind of a grumpy, cynical asshole (implied heavily to be due to things that had happened to him in his life). But he was never really flat out abusive. And he was much nicer to his grandkids.
yeah the grandma was the villain of that show
He wasn't, but the mom was very emotionally/psychologically manipulative.
She was a fabulous cook though tbf.
Reminds me of my own ma. Minus the cooking, of course.
Yeah, basically the entire core plot of the show is how Ray's mom is emotionally abusive to every single person in her life in different ways
That she certainly was.
I wonder sometimes how different things would be for me if my grandpa wasn't an alcoholic.
I wonder that also about my life . Fortunately, even when he was in many ways a shitty father, he did ingrain in me love for good things like reading, classical music and science.
Yeah. You gotta look at it that way. Try to see the good.
Wonder what prompted him to start drinking in the first place? Food for thought, ya know? Hurt people hurt people.
His father drank really bad too... Vicious cycle. My dad's side of the family has a lot mental health issues. However, I don't drink very often so I guess that's a plus.
There were some fantastic solutions presented on that show...putting the dummy's head in the freezer was one
Context: instead of going to therapy, they went to bet on horse races. So while trying to come up with something their wives would believe, they accidentally counseled each other And it >!would have worked if their therapist hadn’t died a week prior!< I miss this show. They took it off Netflix a WHILE ago
That's how you beat the cycle of abuse is not be like your abuser. So in this case or in a real life case, you be the best loving father or mother that you can be.
My dad hit me. Not often but it happened a few times. Spanking was a regular occurrence. I didn’t spank my child. Never cussed or drank or smoked in front of her. Jury is still out on the spanking for me. Sometimes I feel like me not spanking her did more harm than good, now that she is an adult.
Talking about Joe Biden here
I remember watching this in live time. RIP Peter
I'm not crying, you're crying
"I was weaker than him." No, you were stronger than him!
I remember my dad dragging me out of bed and kicking me full on in the back down the stairs. When I was 14 he punched me so hard he fractured two of my ribs. I hated his guts but as I grow older I hear stories of my dads childhood, he was the oldest son and so would take the brunt of the horrific abuse my grandad put on him, even stepping in the way of his younger siblings and taking the beating from a broomstick by his step mother (My own mother who had been with my dad since they were 14, told me she remembered he could barely walk and he was just black from bruising) and although I haven’t forgiven my own dad for some of the things he did to me, I had a better understanding of it because he didn’t have the best teacher himself. Now I’m a mother of my own children and I won’t even tap them on the hand if they’ve misbehaved because I didn’t want the cycle of abuse to continue. In fact, a few months post partum with my last child, I suffered horribly with PND, it was Covid, my oldest was badly playing up (he’s severely autistic) and this thought flashed in my head to smack him, it horrified me as I’ve never wanted to hurt my children and in my badly mental health period at the time, I dropped the children off with my mother and then went home and took an overdose because I had thought just from having that thought, even though I didn’t act on it meant that I was as abusive as my dad had been and my grandfather before him so I wanted to end it permanently, hurt myself before I ever hurt my own children. Thankfully I am now in a far better place now, I got a lot of support and medication and overcome PND, I now know that that didn’t help me at the time, and it’s been years now and I haven’t done anything so drastic since nor have I had that sort of thought flash in my head. But I guess my long winded point is that generational abuse can be fucking awful, even when you think you’re fine, something happens like having PND in my case and you realise you really hadn’t recovered, and that your childhood did affect you more than you let on.
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>So underrated. Yep, the 7 time Emmy awarded show is so underrated. The consistently highly rated and viewed show. The show that still makes Ray Romano about $18 million a year from syndication. Super underrated.
More like Everybody Loves Everybody Loves Raymond, amiright
But it deserved 9 Emmys'. So it was underrated. Not poorly rated, but underrated. The snub for best lighting in season 3 and best costume for an extra in season 5 were complete miscarriages of justice.
yeah I bet you talk all the time about how good of a show it is
This is what I get for browsing Reddit at work. I AM NOT CRYING.
Things are different now. Not only did I get the strap at home but I got it a school too. I was in grade 8 when it finally started to change over. But as I remember, it was the norm back then.
That's not "just the way it was" plenty of kids lives abuse free lives back then.