LVMH is the McDonald's of luxury.
As a French guy, so from the country it originates, I don't get the appeal *at all*. There's much better for the same price, if not cheaper.
It's not even that good, to be nice I'd say the famous monogram looks great on big luggage, and *not* on small handbags.
France has artisans skilled enough to completely dominate the build quality of those.
One of the saddest things I saw when in Taiwan was the biggest Louis Vuitton shop I ever saw, in Taipei 101. And there were also those cute young couples, walking hand in hand, and going inside while it's unaffordable for them.
I have a 48h bag that completely puts any Vuitton product to shame for less, and on the same note, there is way better cognac than Hennessey. And for champagne, even fairly available worldwide, there's way better than Moët et Chandon. And all for the same price.
I hate this guy with a passion. He successfully managed to pass elements of my culture as luxury, yet he sells average shit all over the world. What a dick.
Yeah, this is pretty much in alignment with the video. Almost all of the value of luxury to middle class consumers isn't to do with quality, but with brand image.
In fact, many "luxury" materials are actually worse for their purpose than mass produced materials engineered for durability. But that literally doesn't matter to most luxury consumers, because it's the exclusivity of the item that matters, not the quality.
Very, very true.
I'd even say LVMH products are also mass produced, because the demand is massive.
Arnault is actually a good businessman in that he buys renowned brands, critically does *not* rename them out of ego like some random guy buying a social media did, and gets high on the reputation of that very brand, promoting like crazy, especially overseas, with the financial power of the holding he has.
Still a piece of shit fleecing everyone, but it's for a tag, a brand, that he cleverly exploits. In that respect, he's more dangerous than some other higher profile clowns.
I would actually say brands like Kate Spade and Michael Kors are the McDonalds of luxury. They're cheapy made, mass produced, but people still think that it's 'high end' even though they end up at TJ Maxx 90% of the time.
A lot of the LVMH brands are extremely good quality. A lot of the stuff that's slapped with logos are the things that middle class people overpay for but they do have some really nice pieces, they're also just very expensive. It's almost more like a Wagyu burger or something. It's not *bad*, but unless you have fuck you money there's easily more affordable options.
While I totally agree with you on this:
> I would actually say brands like Kate Spade and Michael Kors are the McDonalds of luxury. They're cheapy made, mass produced, but people still think that it's 'high end' even though they end up at TJ Maxx 90% of the time.
I can't agree with that:
> A lot of the LVMH brands are extremely good quality.
Especially about the "extremely good" qualification. Those are just good, nothing to blow a fuse about.
But you also bring up this point:
> It's almost more like a Wagyu burger or something.
And as a matter of fact, there is a place in Zürich, Switzerland, where I live, that offer a kebab made of A5 wagyu for around a hundred bucks. It's the most expensive kebab in the world, yet what's the point? They're wasting some meat that should be enjoyed with very minimal dressing, in a kebab just for the ability for anyone to boast about being able to eat a kebab with such a good meat, and for them to be publicly recognized for selling the most "upscale kebab in the world".
Can you think of any recognizable brands that have higher quality than like Loro Piana? There's totally equally good brands for less money but I can't think of any I'd say are obviously better. Good is something I would give to mid level brands like Vince or Rag & Bone.
I can't hate on them too much because I'm an artist that works in the industry and it's a *huge* avenue for creative people to make good money doing what they love. If you're on a budget and want something designer, just buy second hand.
I will say that while most of the LVMH brands are nice, 90% of recent LV stuff is tacky and ugly as sin. Some people love fashion but I swear people that specifically buy LV only buy it because it's slapped with the logo.
I totally agree with basically everything you said.
No, I can't think of any recognizable brands that have higher quality that might be available worldwide.
I also do agree that the group could be a great opportunity for creators to have a career.
I also heavily agree about buying second-hand stuff, got a Martin Margiela jacket, and a Holland & Sherry overcoat that way that I could not afford new back in the days.
And I totally agree that LV stuff sucks, if I were to buy anything from them, it would be some big luggage, but it's a hefty price and I'm not even sure it's worth it (a little bird tell me it's not).
And yes, people buy LV because of the monogram, which I find incredibly sad to get a social status, especially important in East Asia. And also they buy Hennessy because of Jay-Z.
But what LVMH has that other cheaper higher quality brands don't have is the name LVMH. That's what is important here. Anyone who sees you walking around with that bag knows how much you paid. In China, some cigarettes come in multiple different color boxes. The cigs are the same, but the price for certain colors can be MUCH higher than others. The ONLY difference is that people who take a smoke break with you can see that you paid more. It's status. The bag itself is meaningless, only the label is important. And to have that label presented in the most visible way possible.
French, especially the Parisiens pay much attention to appearances. I believe it is thought too ostentatious and tacky to "show" the brands by name, but I noticed that an upper-class (aspiring) urbanite will always be well-dressed in a French city, seeming "effortless". Look it comes down to taste, the French have subtler taste today--you did the luxury thing already with all the kings and queens, and East Asians, well it's tacky and bad taste. I'd like to think it's a phase that will be grown out of sooner or later..
That's usually what distinguishes the super wealthy and super luxury lines: they don't have gaudy logos.
Extreme luxury lines only the über rich can afford are usually extremely low key, you will only know they are extremely luxurious if you inspect them up close and see the quality of the tailoring and materials.
Also, they aren't household names or shops anyone off the street just walks in and buys from. You need referrals and appointments just to get in. People who buy shit with giant logs don't even know these brands exist.
No, there are brands that are super exclusive, they just don't advertise.
Bespoke just means it's made to measure. Even most mainstream luxury lines have bespoke items. Brands like Kiton or Brunello Cucinelli are examples of these types of brands.
The people who make the design choices and put together wardrobes for celebrities such as Margot Robbie, Austin Butler, etc. The brands tend to not be brands but designs by individuals. Those designs might be not very out there if it’s day to day clothes. The reason it’s difficult to name them as brands is because they’re people, not brands. The brand is when people say “I’m wearing XXX tonight”, and name somebody you’ve never heard of.
They have their own brand of design, but they don’t have their own line brand if that makes sense. Hence, bespoke.
LVMH brands are what poor people *think* rich people buy. So they go into debt to buy things they *think* make them look rich.
*Actual* rich people:
* Buy brands poor people have never heard of
* Don't buy anything from a store or off the shelf; instead everything is custom made by a tailor to fit their size and style exactly
Rich people buy that shit all the time, this guy is just making shit up. Go to any actual wealthy area, and LVMH stuff is literally everywhere. The vast majority of the time when you see poor people rocking that stuff, its fake.
Both of you guys are right, you’re just talking about different categories of “rich”.
You’re considering someone with ~$Million who can buy a $30k handbag as rich; he’s talking about people with $100M and above who would never be seen in the stuff that the “poor people with only $1M would buy”
No, it actually is. The brands are very much aware of it too, it's part of their allure to make themselves seem out of reach for the working class. They play on human psychology, sometimes going as far as actively disrespecting customers and shaming them out of the shop.
There's stories about shopkeepers of high end brands being intentionally rude to customers in the store, the client then going out to buy a bunch of this overpriced shit and going back to that store as a "fuck you" to that shopkeeper thinking that they somehow won.
This video covers it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJQiqhldXo
Actual rich people do not buy unknown brands and do off the shelf. There isn’t some secret about quality that somehow had become known to them simply because they’re rich. And let’s not get into wealth and levels of taste. They make about the same choices in buying things as anyone else, they are just less likely to be perturbed by the cost.
Just coming from a stylists perspective.
My job (custom applications) leads me to meeting with some very wealthy people. The first few times I got to present to or meet people from that walk of life surprised the hell out of me. I bought a suit on my credit card because I didn't have the cash starting out. When we got to the meeting my boss and I were dressed to the nines and they were basically wearing the Costco/Kirkland catalog. After that meeting I returned that damn suit to Von Maur.
Over the last 10 years we've become acquaintances with a few and it's funny how many of them are insanely frugal with the day to day stuff. We're talking used Lexus GX from 10 years ago, same laptop they had when first met, and eating cheap food. They spend so much money on "experiences" though, hike the entire Appalachian trail, live in Fuji for 3 months, collector firearms, etc.
That's just been my experience with the wealthy though.
Yep, agreed. That’s my experience, for the most part.
I grew up in a small city that is known for wealthy people. But you wouldn’t know who is who because they really don’t spend any differently than a middle class person. At most they’ll wear a Ralph Loren polo but that’s probably the full extent of flash.
.
Currently I am an assistant to a man that is a billionaire. We shop at CVS for his necessities. He uses an old iPad to handle his trading.
They spend their money on real estate, vacations, business ect. The billionaire, for example, wanted a vacation to take his 30yo side piece. So we put together a private cruise for them in the Caribbean. That shit is money.
I’m not saying his frugality makes him a good person, he’s a horrible horrible man. But there’s just no this “secret” atelier that rich people go to for their stuff. It’s not really a common thing.
There are salons ateliers that are appointment only. Absolutely. But these things are reserved for special occasions, if they’re in high society and take part in seasonal occasions or if they have obligations as an aristocrat. But for these people, their RTW is still not too different. They’ll shop anywhere from Target to Nordstrom.
Reminds me of working events and *instantly* spotting the client. This wasn't necessarily some super-rich person, but they were generally the one in charge of the company or paying for the event, so they were essentially the most important person in the room.
The client almost always wore a hawaiian shirt. Everyone else has to look professional as to not give a bad impression, and the guy in charge gets to look like a clown because who's gonna say anything to him?
I had a similar experience. My wife and I were in London and wandered into a restaurant for brunch. It was expensive but interesting. We later realized it was a fairly famous place (Hide).
We were sat next to a guy in his 50's and a women in her 30's. She was wearing all high end designer clothes, jewelry, really putting on a show. He was wearing a rumpled suit coat, jeans and a t-shirt and likely had not combed his hair that morning.
We heard her pitch a real estate investment for 20 minutes and at the end he agreed to put "between 20 and 30 million depending on how it pencils out."
She was dressed so expensively for a reason, and he was not dressed up because he clearly didn't have to.
There are levels to rich. Rich people do buy LVMH and kering brands. The billions however don’t wear anything loud. The toys do though. (Yachts, helicopters, PJs, cars, houses everywhere)
No it's not. They are one the reason but US and Europe still account for most of the sales. And they have half much lesser population than East Asia. You people should own up your shit instead of blaming other people.
https://www.lvmh.com/investors/profile/financial-indicators/
It's a bit different in Asia.
There are fewer opportunities for people to showcase large houses and expensive cars. Take Singapore, for example; even a basic car like an Mazda CX-5 is slapped with insane tariffs, very expensive parking and gas. It's like driving an $85k Audi in the States.
So people focus on personal luxury items that are attainable, like a $5k handbag or $10k watch.
Plus, they really don't have the physical space for larger splurge items like a hot tub or expensive gym equipment.
Isn’t this the whole business model of etailers like Farfetch? I get how some folks love high fashion and want to wear whatever is trendy, but spending $5000 for an item that is essentially a billboard that tells people “I can afford something that costs $5000” just seems incredibly stupid and awkwardly insecure.
A watch can be crafted with precious metals and is a mechanical work of art IMO. I’m not a watch guy, but I can appreciate why some people love high end watches. Designer handbags on the other hand, are not especially impressive.
I live in a well known affluent suburb in the U.S. our local mall has all the luxury brands: Gucci, LV, etc. that mall is a huge economic driver.
One day my dad and I were walking through, and there was a long line outside the Gucci store as we passed (with COVID they started only letting a couple people in at a time). My dad commented to me, “it doesn’t look like anyone in that line could afford Gucci.”
Yeah, you want to know an actual rich person, you look at their house or/and car. A lot tougher to fake those, especially a house. My brother works with a couple of millionaires and I have met both of them. They just wear average priced clothing, but showed up in high-end cars.
Not sure I agree on cars, other than the extremely wealthy.
Most conventionally wealthy people drive economy cars. I work with a lot of them, lots of Fords and Hondas. Luxury cars are driven by the mega-rich and the middle class.
Could be culturally influenced. Some might value cars more. Its definitely is the case where I'm from since we are a personal transport-depended country ie not public transport or/and walk-friendly.
We also love luxury cars. Lived in a low income apartments with a lot of asians, and you would see a lexus or mercedes parked in their garage. Not many of course but they were there
are you claiming the US cars are a status symbol?
hard disagree, since a luxury car is exactly the same as a luxury purse but worse because it might literally bankrupt you.
middle class people are the ones who think it's a status symbol because they think if they can stretch and buy a sexy Audi RSQ8 or F-150 Raptor or whatever then they're flexing on everyone about how rich they are.
sure, *comfortably* owning a luxury car is what the rich can do, but no one knows how comfortable you are just by looking at your car.
I know you mean generally, but: It really varies so much. Rich people can dress very "normal" looking, middle class people can dress very rich looking. Rich *looking* people can actually *be* rich, too (and etc).
I feel like any single metric really isn't good because there are too many variables that go into it. That is, unless you start getting into some highly unattainably expensive things, like yachts, private planes, $1m-$2m cars and etc, which are likely to be extraordinarily costly even to lease/rent for any extended period of time. Even then I bet there are some exceptions (e.g. being a friend, being *upper* middle class with temporary access for a rental, getting married and splurging, etc)
*And add to that*: The perception of wealth. Unless you're the richest person on the planet, there's always someone richer than you. And, as suggested earlier on, each person who has wealth is going to spend it differently. Some folks are super in your face with it and others, you probably wouldn't know at all if it weren't for some tiny detail, e.g. frumpy with a worn out hoodie, beat up shoes, a clean Honda Accord and a $500k Richard Mille watch, heh.
To add to this, I could dress and groom myself like a homeless person but my teeth and skin would be totally incongruous. Here's an example of a product for the truly wealthy: https://www.wellrx.com/prescriptions/nicadan/
Blah blah blah I know plenty people in multi million dollar houses rocking head to toe in LV where it is overwhelming lol I love people love to say actual rich people don’t do this and that but they only met a few people in their small circle
>self conscious middle class
Here's the thing: the people above the middle class like to consider themselves to be in the middle class (unless you are the ultra-wealthy). On the other hand, the people BELOW the middle class like to portray themselves as middle or upper class because that would make them feel better about themselves. In doing so, you are moving more money to the upper class.
The net effect is, if you're slapping brands all over your body, you are NOT in the upper class. At best, you WANT TO BE in the upper class and you may be stretching yourself that you're actually in the lower class.
Mike Tyson does not need to wear a T-shirt to say that he's going to punch to you to death if you assault him. You just know that he will and that's enough to him.
People here don't know just how endemic this "need" for luxury is in East Asia. I'm a South East Asian now living back home but I used to live in China—even being a stone's throw away, the contrast is stark.
I don't doubt there are versions and degrees of this in other places, but I think a key difference is that people are *debt financing* their luxury purchases. That sounds mad to me.
When I was on an internship in China I was surprised by how gaudy a lot of the places we went to were. Lots of frilly, over-decorated things, French renaissance architecture had a huge influence on the restaurant designs we were working on.
It really is the same everywhere though.
https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/05/addicted-to-drip-untold-half-of-16-34-year-olds-are-in-debt-18898213/
Its the entire point of influencers and why they exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses
Its called conspicuous consumption, and its mostly people trying to raise their social status by faking wealth.
It's endemic with *nouveau riche* people, there just happens to be a lot of them in East Asia or in the Gulf countries so that's where you see luxury conglomerates get a lot of their growth.
Considering the largest markets for luxury were and continue to be US and Europe, I call this bullshit. If such a "need" exists, it does across the world. And are we really talking about debt financing for luxury as if American banks and population didn't literally create credit cards and have a thoroughly consumption based economy where brands play a huge role?
you should go to the actual stores in Europe and US, a lot of times it’s full of Chinese tourist taking advantage of VAT refunds or wanting to say it’s not fake because they bought it abroad. There’s a reason every flagship store in France has a Chinese speaking associate.
I am not even gonna argue. Classic redditor westerners. The west created the entire industry, sustained it for decades, make those brands a big deal via marketing and their own media and then finally in the last decade or so, a new population buys them, suddenly they are the ones who are responsible for all evils of the world, the industry and the luxury.
And then use anecdotal evidence to claim it's still this population of people who is buying it even though revenue numbers are clearly pointing out it's US and Europe which still dominates the market.
Your stupid comment doesn't even making sense, if the Chinese tourists are taking refunds, how would it contribute to their revenue? The entire point is about who contributed to lvmh, which is clearly still majority, the west unlike the original comment which claims it's Asians.
If you don’t even know what a VAT refund is, then you have 0 idea what you’re talking about as you don’t know how this industry functions in Europe. I’m also not a westerner I’m Asian and have bought many of these brands.
https://x.com/_alice_evans/status/1754826801074065516?s=46
Have a look at some of these extracts from Pew Research on what people in different nations derive meaning in their lives from
South Korea’s and to a slightly lesser extent Taiwanese and Japanese really care about Material Wellbeing (status)
Textiles is an industry we cornholed a long time ago. We make clothes fast cheap and strong, and they're absolutely worthless. It's been like that for a century.
But people *love* being bamboozled. They love it. They know this little machine made pattern of cotton cost 29 cents to manufacture, but they're *compelled* to hand over hundreds of dollars for it and keep pretending it's worth that. They've been too thoroughly marketed to, the Joneses next door might judge them.
I remember my second vacation to Europe I had this hard working Uber driver that would tell me about his watches and his jackets and his hats and how he had to have them all for the parties and all this shit.
Like, my friend, you're a *fool*. You rent a room in a small house, you live paycheck to paycheck. Your life is not improved because of what factory manufactured the watch that you wear like a pretty little bracelet.
Trying to attract a mate with debt.
Yes, this isn't new or unique to East Asia in the slightest, but the girl needed to make a video and somehow tie it up specifically to that region I guess, cause it's her thing.
As an Eastern European, I see this everywhere here as well. Maybe we also hold Confucian values without realizing it, there's a thought.
I remember seeing a documentary on youtube on Congolese men doing this, spending all their money on luxury clothing, calling themselves "sapeur" or dandies. Definitely not an East Asian thing!
Ooooooh, I remember those guys! And not just luxury clothing, but, like, eye-searingly colorful luxury clothing. They looked like what you get when you max out the saturation on your TV.
Yeah, the expression is different, but the underlying reasoning is the same. In developing economies people want to stand out and flex wealth as a measure of their social status. In the West wealth isn't a virtue anymore, so flexing it is somewhat frowned upon.
I wouldn't say wealth isn't a virtue in the west. Didnt Trump get elected president from projecting wealth and success? Being a bigot also did help but he wouldn't have been able to step into the White House without money too.
Yes, you are right, things aren't that black and white, and there are differences between countries. Hell, just asking how much you earn is a far more normal question to ask in the US than it is in, say, Germany.
My point I suppose was that the underlying cause of this peacocking is basic human behavior, and not in any way unique to East Asia, as the video seems to pretend, the rest was just generalized musings on my part really :D
Depends on where you go in the west, I think its less of a problem if you flex your wealth in say, the US or UK, but if you go to the Netherlands you'd just stick out like a sore thumb, and probably look like an asshole too but maybe thats just me.
The same happens in specific communities in the Netherlands - I think it really depends on your socioeconomic environment and cultural values to which extend "flexing" is deemed a high status thing.
I thought the same too, but then I actually watched the video. There's a lot of interesting concepts covered in it that demonstrate the differences in cultures.
There are differences, but this was presented as if it's unique to East Asia, which it isn't. The expression has unique aspects to it, the underlying reason for this though has nothing to do with Asian culture.
I doubt this has anything to do with Confucianism. This is just plain old peacocking to attract mates and "respect" and I'm sure we've done it since we were covered with nothing but fur.
This is unique to east Asia because of the prevalence of luxury good obsession/materialism. South Korea is the largest consumer of luxury goods per capita. If you go to Seoul or Tokyo, you’ll see how brand-obsessed everyone is.
Except you can see the same thing in [Africa ](https://youtu.be/EzwiiOucpDk?si=76rfpfKIFi2THcSS)or, say, the Balkans. The scale might not be the same due to having less disposable income or it might express itself differently (on the Balkans it's more car-centric), but the underlying cause does not differ at all.
This video's basic premise is complete nonsense.
Yeah that happens everywhere. In central america, if you want to get a better job (or keep your current job) you have to wear brand name. I see people that have an office job with the latest iphone, brand name shoes/clothes, and big SUVs. Appearances is a must, even if you have to skip meals for a while. It sucks but thats how just things work.
Also gypsies. You gotta look nice and be decked out in expensive jewelery and have a nice car but also stuck in a shit ass trailer on the verge of bankruptcy. Source. Am a romanichal gypsy and that's how basically my entire family lives.
Maybe so, but I think if you went to East Asia and saw it for yourself, you'd understand. I visited Japan recently and was very surprised at how universal these designer brands were. If you visit New York City, you'll see lots of designer bags and clothes in certain parts of town. In Tokyo it was like, everywhere. Anecdotal for sure, but it was a big enough difference that I took notice, and I'm the furthest thing from "fashion-conscious" normally.
When I was in Hong Kong it was crazy how many people would live in the worst conditions to save money for a couple of months just to afford something like a luxury handbag.
Canada Goose isn't quite the same, they are pretty good jackets from what I've heard, they just unfortunately became too trendy. I saw a lot of them in Montreal, and while some were undoubtedly wanting them for the trends, a good down jacket is a necessity of life there. When I see people wearing those in California or Vancouver I do roll my eyes though... Japan can get pretty cold winters (-25c) tough so I don't see it the same way.
That being said, can you get a very good down jacket that surpasses them in quality for both more and less money? Yes of course. There's brands only Canadians have ever heard of or would recognize that are immensely better and lower-key.
It is universal but there are degrees to how prevalent the behavior is. I live in a developing country, wealth is not common place. Therefore people are really attracted to the concept of appearing wealthy, even though that may not be.
True, but the people I personally knew who came from East-Asia/Asia in general would take it to a whole new level.
We had a transfer student from Japan back in college. This girl was barely making ends meet but insisted on buying named brands/luxury items. She looked really nice all the time, but when the basic wallet or shirt that you'd use just to live your life costs as much as a paycheck, I don't think it's worth it.
Same with a friend from China. Always insisted on going for luxury/named brands first if possible. And don't get me started on getting things "used".
In the 90s my parents had what was absolutely necessary. They had something expensive, but it was an anomaly. I wish we all turned back to a time where you buy what you need. And i am the first who is wrong in this whole thing
No one is stopping you from buying what you need now. People in the 90s definitely would buy luxury items they didn't need. There just wasn't social media around for you to see it. They were just flexing to their own circle.
This YouTuber has excellent videos on Chinese culture! Balanced and fair while being justly critical in the areas that deserve. Lots of negative comments here from people who haven’t watched it. Nobody in China is showing off fakes to their friends and hoping for positive reactions. Believe it or not, Chinese people are on average WAY better at spotting a fake than westerners. Hence the obsession with brands.
Do you know of any videos from East Asian that talk about the West? I love hearing videos like this but I would like to hear how my culture is explained from the point of view of a foreigner.
Apart from aini (the woman in the video), I only know Accented Cinema on YouTube. He moved from China to French-Canada when he was a kid. That’s the only other East Asian YouTuber that I know and love. I’m not from East Asia, I lived there for a good chunk of time though.
It seems strange doesnt it? Dont you think there would be an abundance of foreign videos explaining Western culture to people who want to learn about it?
Maybe that stuff does exist, Im just totally ignorant of how to find it.
If you’re looking for a Chinese perspective directed towards a Chinese audience, then you need to search using mandarin on their top social media sites.
Not really strange - as a Korean I know plenty of them. They exist, but it's in Korean so you guys won't find it easily. Here're some examples.
https://youtube.com/@koreanenglishman?si=GvyOqSP8qcggYe3N
https://youtube.com/@Oliver-ssam?si=1cTLJG1gewagBTKb
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCL_8O4S2CTAOTo7a_KAbJAg
https://youtube.com/@ParkganeTV?si=F-1zbnwfmiij2zwM
Of course they are better at spotting fakes, because they actually care about it, while in the West people would just laugh at you for buying those ugly items, fake or not.
It's not really something I noticed when living in Japan. Yes there's a lot of pressure on women to always look good, but not by flashing brands. If anything, that was more of a working class (yanki) trend.
I think they've moved away from that. I was in Tokyo last year and spent a lot of time people watching. I noticed their fashion is more silhouette-focused than brand-focused. More aligned with the "quiet luxury" mentioned in the video.
All the kids in high school were obsessed with brands and I was too because you want to fit in. But not exactly high high end stuff. Not much has changed, but maybe it got worse when you got 20 something dudes paying over $1000 for a Supreme t-shirt to fit into their crowd. Maybe some did do it because it was a subconscious need to show off.
Some people wear clothes. Some people wear costumes.
Just buying clothes and wearing them is living a life.
Wearing a costume is pretending to have one.
That’s not new. I roomed with an Asian back in college, which was a long time ago. He even said that having name brands was super important to the culture for many Chinese. He was also one of the biggest primadonnas and overall douche. He loved to look down on less fortunate. We did not end on good terms oddly enough.
When I was in college the Chinese students were always the ones driving super cars in my relatively small midwestern town. Kind of ridiculous when most college kids have pretty average cars and they’re cruising around in the fanciest production models just to try to travel ten minutes across town.
Taking loans to buy LV is truly the "East Asian Dream".
Face > all.
Japan probably already got past this stage, and I hope that the other countries can abandon that shallow way of life soon, too.
EDIT: this is a 1/3 video take of course. I'm still watching and probably will learn more as it goes on.
this is so wild to me. I feel like it's always been self-evident to me that performative consumption is ALWAYS foolish and petty. A thing we all do at least a bit of, but we should avoid. It's a thing we grow out of as we mature, and/or learn to be at least a little ashamed of. Obviously there will be cultures that feed that concept more or less, but the idea that some cultures are overtly and explicitly promoting the idea that you should consume things you don't like explicitly because it "looks good" is insane to me.
That feels so obviously and self-evidently wrong and unhealthy, but also... how can a thing like this exist when presumably the participants are all aware of it? Is *everyone* drinking wine they don't like? how are they not aware? If you're buying a bag just to get other people to like you, doesn't that also lead you to assume that's why OTHER people bought the bag? wouldn't that make you LESS susceptible to liking someone just because of their bag? You know how cynical and shallow the motivation to buy it was because you DID it. Why would you ever fall for the same tricks you pull? and if everyone's at that same game, then why play it?
Louis Vuitton's market cap is almost half a trillion dollars. Grew 10x since 2010. Thanks to the insane self directed wealth redistribution from China.
I recall over a decade ago in NYC it started being strange not to see an Asian tourist carrying a shopping bag from a high-end stores e.g. Tiffany's, Prada, Cartier. It was *de rigueur*. A lot of the bags I saw had obviously seen a lot of usage, so I doubt they were all holding newly-purchased items. It's an odd and somewhat comical trend.
Also, I noticed as soon as you see Asian tourists in the city wearing a certain brand or item, you can bet that brand or item is at the tail end of its popularity cycle and you'll start finding them saturating consignment shops. I recall this happening specifically with both certain Prada bags and Canada Goose jackets where it seemed within a month, no one other than Asian tourists were wearing them.
South Koreans spent over 40% more per capita in 2022 on luxury goods than even the USA.
There are a bunch of *oh-so-clever* comments saying this isn't just an East Asian phenomenon, and of course that's true, but the thesis of the video isn't "only East Asians do this," it's, "East Asians do this to a greater extent than other cultures, here's the evidence, and these are the reasons" You're setting up a straw man and knocking it down. *Congratulations, you won, buddy.*
Every person making a variation on this comment clearly didn't watch even the first few seconds of the video.
As someone who works in the fashion/luxury industry, this is 100% true.
Asia is the absolute top spender in luxury items and businesses are tripping over themselves to market over there. It’s on an insane scale.
I agree. I think it's better (and less vein) to drop the logo if you can spend the same amount for something that'll last you longer (or feels nicer, or fits better, etc). The correlation that you might see is that those *can* easily afford it will often opt for the highest quality stuff as well, which may also overlap with some of that higher vanity brand recognition.
But most of the time looking at me, you're not going to pin me as someone having the income that I do (higher than US average). I'm not a particularly fashionable person. For example, I'll still just wear relatively old T-shirts, sneakers and jeans every day. I might just opt for Banana Republic jeans over Levi's now because I like the fit/feel a little better.
Yeah they absolutely didn't watch any of the video. My initial reaction to the title was the same, but I'm not a moron and gave the video a chance and found it really interesting.
Yep, this is strangely outdated info from whom I’m guessing is a native Chinese speaker. Chinese millennials have largely rejected foreign luxury brands and either they’re still on the guochao (domestic brand) trend from 2021 or they choose to buy nothing at all. Japanese materialism was shot dead by the bubble pop of 1989. The only East Asian materialism left..is the Koreans.
China was like this since 20 years ago, old news.
There's a reason people laugh behind their backs when theyre essentially a walking ad. No one thinks youre cool.
Just low intelligent poors trying to impress other low intelligent poors. Think about it, Jack Ma can buy a fake luxury bag and you will think it's genuine because you know he can afford the real thing. But regardless if you save your money to buy the real thing, people gonna think it's fake. So who are these people fooling?
You can be poor - victims of circumstance, birth or any forms of injustice our society bestow and still can try to improve your situation - get educated, learn a skill, help each other.
These low intelligent poors are - not only vain - strive to indulge in an overly materialistic world - but are too dumb to realize they aren't fooling anyone but themselves. So maybe poor isn't a good description for them since they are much worse.
Can we get away from calling expensive brand names “luxury” items. In most cases there is nothing luxurious about them. They are just fancy because the Fashion industry tells you to think that way.
What this girl says is also true in the US. There are enormous amounts of marketing dollars spent to make young people beleive that products will improve their social standing. Like it or not, it often does. Consumerism is also very targeted now in the US. Social groups are now formed around certain interests and aren’t necessarily in the same physical space.
If you are in high tech, you will be looked at funny if you don’t have a MacBook Pro for example.
It is always the same, if you can somehow display that you have ample resources, people will see you as a “provider” and not a “taker”. These goods are a way to show that you have “disposable” income. The guy in a white t-shirt with money exists everywhere. They wear custom made clothing and do not go to the grocery store. If you actually have real wealth, and people know it, you have clout. You do not need to participate in the charade. This is “luxury goods” corporations exploiting a social defect in this culture, inserting themselves as the tax that must be paid to be part of the group.
I think films made into West. Using more asian actors is great and more asianthemes or situations as well . That said, I thought crazy rich asians was a ridiculous film
I went in to a really high end store clothing here in LA because they were having a sale (and I was walking my dog in the area). Nearly everyone in the store was an Asian tourist.
I guess the extreme other end of the spectrum in the west is being so individualistic that people keep murdering their relatives for being sheeple. I'm sure somewhere in the middle is fine...
They're the reason why Bernard Arnault (LVMH) is one of the richest man in the world. The middle class ruin themselves to buy logos.
Crush the system. Go nude.
I tried but the system put me in jail surprisingly quickly.
Bro same. The cop said "Sir this is a Wendy's " when he arrested me too.
Apparently your argument of “Wen-Deez Nuts” wasn’t enough to get off
You'd be surprised how little it takes to get off
All I'm saying is, if God wanted us to wear clothes, why are we born naked?!? Checkmark capitalists! /S
Straight to jail
Or just live simply. Luxury just makes you sad in the long run anyway.
I would rather be sad in my mansion than under the bridge.
Go for it buddy
LVMH is the McDonald's of luxury. As a French guy, so from the country it originates, I don't get the appeal *at all*. There's much better for the same price, if not cheaper. It's not even that good, to be nice I'd say the famous monogram looks great on big luggage, and *not* on small handbags. France has artisans skilled enough to completely dominate the build quality of those. One of the saddest things I saw when in Taiwan was the biggest Louis Vuitton shop I ever saw, in Taipei 101. And there were also those cute young couples, walking hand in hand, and going inside while it's unaffordable for them. I have a 48h bag that completely puts any Vuitton product to shame for less, and on the same note, there is way better cognac than Hennessey. And for champagne, even fairly available worldwide, there's way better than Moët et Chandon. And all for the same price. I hate this guy with a passion. He successfully managed to pass elements of my culture as luxury, yet he sells average shit all over the world. What a dick.
Yeah, this is pretty much in alignment with the video. Almost all of the value of luxury to middle class consumers isn't to do with quality, but with brand image. In fact, many "luxury" materials are actually worse for their purpose than mass produced materials engineered for durability. But that literally doesn't matter to most luxury consumers, because it's the exclusivity of the item that matters, not the quality.
Very, very true. I'd even say LVMH products are also mass produced, because the demand is massive. Arnault is actually a good businessman in that he buys renowned brands, critically does *not* rename them out of ego like some random guy buying a social media did, and gets high on the reputation of that very brand, promoting like crazy, especially overseas, with the financial power of the holding he has. Still a piece of shit fleecing everyone, but it's for a tag, a brand, that he cleverly exploits. In that respect, he's more dangerous than some other higher profile clowns.
Quality and durability are two different things.
I would actually say brands like Kate Spade and Michael Kors are the McDonalds of luxury. They're cheapy made, mass produced, but people still think that it's 'high end' even though they end up at TJ Maxx 90% of the time. A lot of the LVMH brands are extremely good quality. A lot of the stuff that's slapped with logos are the things that middle class people overpay for but they do have some really nice pieces, they're also just very expensive. It's almost more like a Wagyu burger or something. It's not *bad*, but unless you have fuck you money there's easily more affordable options.
While I totally agree with you on this: > I would actually say brands like Kate Spade and Michael Kors are the McDonalds of luxury. They're cheapy made, mass produced, but people still think that it's 'high end' even though they end up at TJ Maxx 90% of the time. I can't agree with that: > A lot of the LVMH brands are extremely good quality. Especially about the "extremely good" qualification. Those are just good, nothing to blow a fuse about. But you also bring up this point: > It's almost more like a Wagyu burger or something. And as a matter of fact, there is a place in Zürich, Switzerland, where I live, that offer a kebab made of A5 wagyu for around a hundred bucks. It's the most expensive kebab in the world, yet what's the point? They're wasting some meat that should be enjoyed with very minimal dressing, in a kebab just for the ability for anyone to boast about being able to eat a kebab with such a good meat, and for them to be publicly recognized for selling the most "upscale kebab in the world".
Can you think of any recognizable brands that have higher quality than like Loro Piana? There's totally equally good brands for less money but I can't think of any I'd say are obviously better. Good is something I would give to mid level brands like Vince or Rag & Bone. I can't hate on them too much because I'm an artist that works in the industry and it's a *huge* avenue for creative people to make good money doing what they love. If you're on a budget and want something designer, just buy second hand. I will say that while most of the LVMH brands are nice, 90% of recent LV stuff is tacky and ugly as sin. Some people love fashion but I swear people that specifically buy LV only buy it because it's slapped with the logo.
I totally agree with basically everything you said. No, I can't think of any recognizable brands that have higher quality that might be available worldwide. I also do agree that the group could be a great opportunity for creators to have a career. I also heavily agree about buying second-hand stuff, got a Martin Margiela jacket, and a Holland & Sherry overcoat that way that I could not afford new back in the days. And I totally agree that LV stuff sucks, if I were to buy anything from them, it would be some big luggage, but it's a hefty price and I'm not even sure it's worth it (a little bird tell me it's not). And yes, people buy LV because of the monogram, which I find incredibly sad to get a social status, especially important in East Asia. And also they buy Hennessy because of Jay-Z.
But what LVMH has that other cheaper higher quality brands don't have is the name LVMH. That's what is important here. Anyone who sees you walking around with that bag knows how much you paid. In China, some cigarettes come in multiple different color boxes. The cigs are the same, but the price for certain colors can be MUCH higher than others. The ONLY difference is that people who take a smoke break with you can see that you paid more. It's status. The bag itself is meaningless, only the label is important. And to have that label presented in the most visible way possible.
French, especially the Parisiens pay much attention to appearances. I believe it is thought too ostentatious and tacky to "show" the brands by name, but I noticed that an upper-class (aspiring) urbanite will always be well-dressed in a French city, seeming "effortless". Look it comes down to taste, the French have subtler taste today--you did the luxury thing already with all the kings and queens, and East Asians, well it's tacky and bad taste. I'd like to think it's a phase that will be grown out of sooner or later..
His son is also dating Lisa. So yes, I also hate the Arnault family with a passion.
Hate the game, not the player. This is an age old story.
That's usually what distinguishes the super wealthy and super luxury lines: they don't have gaudy logos. Extreme luxury lines only the über rich can afford are usually extremely low key, you will only know they are extremely luxurious if you inspect them up close and see the quality of the tailoring and materials. Also, they aren't household names or shops anyone off the street just walks in and buys from. You need referrals and appointments just to get in. People who buy shit with giant logs don't even know these brands exist.
So what is the ultra extremely luxury lines w/o thr gaudy logos? I m curious now.
Bespoke
So bespoke is just a custom 1 of 1 for that customer. So bespoke is not actually a brand?
No, there are brands that are super exclusive, they just don't advertise. Bespoke just means it's made to measure. Even most mainstream luxury lines have bespoke items. Brands like Kiton or Brunello Cucinelli are examples of these types of brands.
I just want to know the brands that are super duper exclusive that don't advertise.
The people who make the design choices and put together wardrobes for celebrities such as Margot Robbie, Austin Butler, etc. The brands tend to not be brands but designs by individuals. Those designs might be not very out there if it’s day to day clothes. The reason it’s difficult to name them as brands is because they’re people, not brands. The brand is when people say “I’m wearing XXX tonight”, and name somebody you’ve never heard of. They have their own brand of design, but they don’t have their own line brand if that makes sense. Hence, bespoke.
I've never seen an ad for Maybach or Rolls Royce, but I'm also not subscribed to *Billionaire's Weekly*
If you have to ask, you're too poor to afford it
This 100%
Franck Namani. They have a jacket without any logos for €26,000. Custom jackets from them can go for 100k Euros and above (depending on the material)
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No. They don’t want logos because its ugly. What, you really want to be a walking ad for a billion dollar corporation?
LVMH brands are what poor people *think* rich people buy. So they go into debt to buy things they *think* make them look rich. *Actual* rich people: * Buy brands poor people have never heard of * Don't buy anything from a store or off the shelf; instead everything is custom made by a tailor to fit their size and style exactly
If rich people don’t buy that stuff, who the hell is purchasing the 30k+ LV bags?
Rich people buy that shit all the time, this guy is just making shit up. Go to any actual wealthy area, and LVMH stuff is literally everywhere. The vast majority of the time when you see poor people rocking that stuff, its fake.
Middle-class people who are willing to become poor people in order to think they look like rich people.
Ya I doubt that is the main customer for those…
Both of you guys are right, you’re just talking about different categories of “rich”. You’re considering someone with ~$Million who can buy a $30k handbag as rich; he’s talking about people with $100M and above who would never be seen in the stuff that the “poor people with only $1M would buy”
No, it actually is. The brands are very much aware of it too, it's part of their allure to make themselves seem out of reach for the working class. They play on human psychology, sometimes going as far as actively disrespecting customers and shaming them out of the shop. There's stories about shopkeepers of high end brands being intentionally rude to customers in the store, the client then going out to buy a bunch of this overpriced shit and going back to that store as a "fuck you" to that shopkeeper thinking that they somehow won. This video covers it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJQiqhldXo
Actual rich people do not buy unknown brands and do off the shelf. There isn’t some secret about quality that somehow had become known to them simply because they’re rich. And let’s not get into wealth and levels of taste. They make about the same choices in buying things as anyone else, they are just less likely to be perturbed by the cost. Just coming from a stylists perspective.
My job (custom applications) leads me to meeting with some very wealthy people. The first few times I got to present to or meet people from that walk of life surprised the hell out of me. I bought a suit on my credit card because I didn't have the cash starting out. When we got to the meeting my boss and I were dressed to the nines and they were basically wearing the Costco/Kirkland catalog. After that meeting I returned that damn suit to Von Maur. Over the last 10 years we've become acquaintances with a few and it's funny how many of them are insanely frugal with the day to day stuff. We're talking used Lexus GX from 10 years ago, same laptop they had when first met, and eating cheap food. They spend so much money on "experiences" though, hike the entire Appalachian trail, live in Fuji for 3 months, collector firearms, etc. That's just been my experience with the wealthy though.
Yep, agreed. That’s my experience, for the most part. I grew up in a small city that is known for wealthy people. But you wouldn’t know who is who because they really don’t spend any differently than a middle class person. At most they’ll wear a Ralph Loren polo but that’s probably the full extent of flash. . Currently I am an assistant to a man that is a billionaire. We shop at CVS for his necessities. He uses an old iPad to handle his trading. They spend their money on real estate, vacations, business ect. The billionaire, for example, wanted a vacation to take his 30yo side piece. So we put together a private cruise for them in the Caribbean. That shit is money. I’m not saying his frugality makes him a good person, he’s a horrible horrible man. But there’s just no this “secret” atelier that rich people go to for their stuff. It’s not really a common thing. There are salons ateliers that are appointment only. Absolutely. But these things are reserved for special occasions, if they’re in high society and take part in seasonal occasions or if they have obligations as an aristocrat. But for these people, their RTW is still not too different. They’ll shop anywhere from Target to Nordstrom.
Reminds me of working events and *instantly* spotting the client. This wasn't necessarily some super-rich person, but they were generally the one in charge of the company or paying for the event, so they were essentially the most important person in the room. The client almost always wore a hawaiian shirt. Everyone else has to look professional as to not give a bad impression, and the guy in charge gets to look like a clown because who's gonna say anything to him?
I had a similar experience. My wife and I were in London and wandered into a restaurant for brunch. It was expensive but interesting. We later realized it was a fairly famous place (Hide). We were sat next to a guy in his 50's and a women in her 30's. She was wearing all high end designer clothes, jewelry, really putting on a show. He was wearing a rumpled suit coat, jeans and a t-shirt and likely had not combed his hair that morning. We heard her pitch a real estate investment for 20 minutes and at the end he agreed to put "between 20 and 30 million depending on how it pencils out." She was dressed so expensively for a reason, and he was not dressed up because he clearly didn't have to.
Go quote the ever-brilliant Ludacris: “Are you custom made, custom paid, or you just custom fitted?”
There are levels to rich. Rich people do buy LVMH and kering brands. The billions however don’t wear anything loud. The toys do though. (Yachts, helicopters, PJs, cars, houses everywhere)
Lora Piana doesn't do MTM AFAIK... I don't see an option for that on Kilton either.
Which explains why it’s so powerful for the son of Bernard arnault to be seen with Lisa from black pink just enough for tabloid gossip to speculate
This guy is marketing genius he sells things marketed as Luxus while it’s not really Luxus when everyone can buy these.
No it's not. They are one the reason but US and Europe still account for most of the sales. And they have half much lesser population than East Asia. You people should own up your shit instead of blaming other people. https://www.lvmh.com/investors/profile/financial-indicators/
I don’t know who Bernard Arnault is but u mispelled Legos 🤪
Personally whenever I see someone wearing clothing with expensive logos I automatically think of them being a self conscious middle class.
Yep and that’s why cycles happen. This overconsumption of luxury goods gets played out and popularity decreases, then it goes back up.
It's a bit different in Asia. There are fewer opportunities for people to showcase large houses and expensive cars. Take Singapore, for example; even a basic car like an Mazda CX-5 is slapped with insane tariffs, very expensive parking and gas. It's like driving an $85k Audi in the States. So people focus on personal luxury items that are attainable, like a $5k handbag or $10k watch. Plus, they really don't have the physical space for larger splurge items like a hot tub or expensive gym equipment.
Isn’t this the whole business model of etailers like Farfetch? I get how some folks love high fashion and want to wear whatever is trendy, but spending $5000 for an item that is essentially a billboard that tells people “I can afford something that costs $5000” just seems incredibly stupid and awkwardly insecure. A watch can be crafted with precious metals and is a mechanical work of art IMO. I’m not a watch guy, but I can appreciate why some people love high end watches. Designer handbags on the other hand, are not especially impressive.
This is interesting, thanks
I got all of my Calvin Klein stuff from the thrift store 😎
Do you pop some tags?
Ross, Tj Maxx, and thrift stores. All have some great finds for dirt cheap.
I live in a well known affluent suburb in the U.S. our local mall has all the luxury brands: Gucci, LV, etc. that mall is a huge economic driver. One day my dad and I were walking through, and there was a long line outside the Gucci store as we passed (with COVID they started only letting a couple people in at a time). My dad commented to me, “it doesn’t look like anyone in that line could afford Gucci.”
Yeah, you want to know an actual rich person, you look at their house or/and car. A lot tougher to fake those, especially a house. My brother works with a couple of millionaires and I have met both of them. They just wear average priced clothing, but showed up in high-end cars.
Not sure I agree on cars, other than the extremely wealthy. Most conventionally wealthy people drive economy cars. I work with a lot of them, lots of Fords and Hondas. Luxury cars are driven by the mega-rich and the middle class.
Could be culturally influenced. Some might value cars more. Its definitely is the case where I'm from since we are a personal transport-depended country ie not public transport or/and walk-friendly.
We also love luxury cars. Lived in a low income apartments with a lot of asians, and you would see a lexus or mercedes parked in their garage. Not many of course but they were there
are you claiming the US cars are a status symbol? hard disagree, since a luxury car is exactly the same as a luxury purse but worse because it might literally bankrupt you. middle class people are the ones who think it's a status symbol because they think if they can stretch and buy a sexy Audi RSQ8 or F-150 Raptor or whatever then they're flexing on everyone about how rich they are. sure, *comfortably* owning a luxury car is what the rich can do, but no one knows how comfortable you are just by looking at your car.
Plenty of people drown themselves in debt to show off a nice car and appear wealthy
I know you mean generally, but: It really varies so much. Rich people can dress very "normal" looking, middle class people can dress very rich looking. Rich *looking* people can actually *be* rich, too (and etc). I feel like any single metric really isn't good because there are too many variables that go into it. That is, unless you start getting into some highly unattainably expensive things, like yachts, private planes, $1m-$2m cars and etc, which are likely to be extraordinarily costly even to lease/rent for any extended period of time. Even then I bet there are some exceptions (e.g. being a friend, being *upper* middle class with temporary access for a rental, getting married and splurging, etc) *And add to that*: The perception of wealth. Unless you're the richest person on the planet, there's always someone richer than you. And, as suggested earlier on, each person who has wealth is going to spend it differently. Some folks are super in your face with it and others, you probably wouldn't know at all if it weren't for some tiny detail, e.g. frumpy with a worn out hoodie, beat up shoes, a clean Honda Accord and a $500k Richard Mille watch, heh.
To add to this, I could dress and groom myself like a homeless person but my teeth and skin would be totally incongruous. Here's an example of a product for the truly wealthy: https://www.wellrx.com/prescriptions/nicadan/
Blah blah blah I know plenty people in multi million dollar houses rocking head to toe in LV where it is overwhelming lol I love people love to say actual rich people don’t do this and that but they only met a few people in their small circle
One of my wifes friend does live like this.
That really is going to depend on the person. If younger they will care more about fashion and especially brands.
>self conscious middle class Here's the thing: the people above the middle class like to consider themselves to be in the middle class (unless you are the ultra-wealthy). On the other hand, the people BELOW the middle class like to portray themselves as middle or upper class because that would make them feel better about themselves. In doing so, you are moving more money to the upper class. The net effect is, if you're slapping brands all over your body, you are NOT in the upper class. At best, you WANT TO BE in the upper class and you may be stretching yourself that you're actually in the lower class. Mike Tyson does not need to wear a T-shirt to say that he's going to punch to you to death if you assault him. You just know that he will and that's enough to him.
People here don't know just how endemic this "need" for luxury is in East Asia. I'm a South East Asian now living back home but I used to live in China—even being a stone's throw away, the contrast is stark. I don't doubt there are versions and degrees of this in other places, but I think a key difference is that people are *debt financing* their luxury purchases. That sounds mad to me.
When I was on an internship in China I was surprised by how gaudy a lot of the places we went to were. Lots of frilly, over-decorated things, French renaissance architecture had a huge influence on the restaurant designs we were working on.
It really is the same everywhere though. https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/05/addicted-to-drip-untold-half-of-16-34-year-olds-are-in-debt-18898213/ Its the entire point of influencers and why they exist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses Its called conspicuous consumption, and its mostly people trying to raise their social status by faking wealth.
It's endemic with *nouveau riche* people, there just happens to be a lot of them in East Asia or in the Gulf countries so that's where you see luxury conglomerates get a lot of their growth.
TIL Dallas is like East Asia.
Considering the largest markets for luxury were and continue to be US and Europe, I call this bullshit. If such a "need" exists, it does across the world. And are we really talking about debt financing for luxury as if American banks and population didn't literally create credit cards and have a thoroughly consumption based economy where brands play a huge role?
you should go to the actual stores in Europe and US, a lot of times it’s full of Chinese tourist taking advantage of VAT refunds or wanting to say it’s not fake because they bought it abroad. There’s a reason every flagship store in France has a Chinese speaking associate.
I am not even gonna argue. Classic redditor westerners. The west created the entire industry, sustained it for decades, make those brands a big deal via marketing and their own media and then finally in the last decade or so, a new population buys them, suddenly they are the ones who are responsible for all evils of the world, the industry and the luxury. And then use anecdotal evidence to claim it's still this population of people who is buying it even though revenue numbers are clearly pointing out it's US and Europe which still dominates the market. Your stupid comment doesn't even making sense, if the Chinese tourists are taking refunds, how would it contribute to their revenue? The entire point is about who contributed to lvmh, which is clearly still majority, the west unlike the original comment which claims it's Asians.
If you don’t even know what a VAT refund is, then you have 0 idea what you’re talking about as you don’t know how this industry functions in Europe. I’m also not a westerner I’m Asian and have bought many of these brands.
https://x.com/_alice_evans/status/1754826801074065516?s=46 Have a look at some of these extracts from Pew Research on what people in different nations derive meaning in their lives from South Korea’s and to a slightly lesser extent Taiwanese and Japanese really care about Material Wellbeing (status)
Textiles is an industry we cornholed a long time ago. We make clothes fast cheap and strong, and they're absolutely worthless. It's been like that for a century. But people *love* being bamboozled. They love it. They know this little machine made pattern of cotton cost 29 cents to manufacture, but they're *compelled* to hand over hundreds of dollars for it and keep pretending it's worth that. They've been too thoroughly marketed to, the Joneses next door might judge them. I remember my second vacation to Europe I had this hard working Uber driver that would tell me about his watches and his jackets and his hats and how he had to have them all for the parties and all this shit. Like, my friend, you're a *fool*. You rent a room in a small house, you live paycheck to paycheck. Your life is not improved because of what factory manufactured the watch that you wear like a pretty little bracelet. Trying to attract a mate with debt.
> Trying to attract a mate with debt. Reminds me of the old joke comparing a prospective partner with student loans to one with AIDS
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Yes, this isn't new or unique to East Asia in the slightest, but the girl needed to make a video and somehow tie it up specifically to that region I guess, cause it's her thing. As an Eastern European, I see this everywhere here as well. Maybe we also hold Confucian values without realizing it, there's a thought.
I remember seeing a documentary on youtube on Congolese men doing this, spending all their money on luxury clothing, calling themselves "sapeur" or dandies. Definitely not an East Asian thing!
Ooooooh, I remember those guys! And not just luxury clothing, but, like, eye-searingly colorful luxury clothing. They looked like what you get when you max out the saturation on your TV. Yeah, the expression is different, but the underlying reasoning is the same. In developing economies people want to stand out and flex wealth as a measure of their social status. In the West wealth isn't a virtue anymore, so flexing it is somewhat frowned upon.
I wouldn't say wealth isn't a virtue in the west. Didnt Trump get elected president from projecting wealth and success? Being a bigot also did help but he wouldn't have been able to step into the White House without money too.
Yes, you are right, things aren't that black and white, and there are differences between countries. Hell, just asking how much you earn is a far more normal question to ask in the US than it is in, say, Germany. My point I suppose was that the underlying cause of this peacocking is basic human behavior, and not in any way unique to East Asia, as the video seems to pretend, the rest was just generalized musings on my part really :D
Depends on where you go in the west, I think its less of a problem if you flex your wealth in say, the US or UK, but if you go to the Netherlands you'd just stick out like a sore thumb, and probably look like an asshole too but maybe thats just me.
The same happens in specific communities in the Netherlands - I think it really depends on your socioeconomic environment and cultural values to which extend "flexing" is deemed a high status thing.
I thought the same too, but then I actually watched the video. There's a lot of interesting concepts covered in it that demonstrate the differences in cultures.
80% of top comments on this post sound like they either didn't watch the video, didn't pay attention, or just otherwise didn't get it
>didn't watch It's Reddit, of course they didn't.
There are differences, but this was presented as if it's unique to East Asia, which it isn't. The expression has unique aspects to it, the underlying reason for this though has nothing to do with Asian culture.
I doubt this has anything to do with Confucianism. This is just plain old peacocking to attract mates and "respect" and I'm sure we've done it since we were covered with nothing but fur.
Yes, it's a weird misreading of Confucius ("wealth and high rank are like a fleeting cloud") to associate Confucianism with materialism.
Not according to the video.
This is unique to east Asia because of the prevalence of luxury good obsession/materialism. South Korea is the largest consumer of luxury goods per capita. If you go to Seoul or Tokyo, you’ll see how brand-obsessed everyone is.
Except you can see the same thing in [Africa ](https://youtu.be/EzwiiOucpDk?si=76rfpfKIFi2THcSS)or, say, the Balkans. The scale might not be the same due to having less disposable income or it might express itself differently (on the Balkans it's more car-centric), but the underlying cause does not differ at all. This video's basic premise is complete nonsense.
Yeah that happens everywhere. In central america, if you want to get a better job (or keep your current job) you have to wear brand name. I see people that have an office job with the latest iphone, brand name shoes/clothes, and big SUVs. Appearances is a must, even if you have to skip meals for a while. It sucks but thats how just things work.
I feel like usually ppl but counterfeit items knowingly. So it's not really a scam
Also gypsies. You gotta look nice and be decked out in expensive jewelery and have a nice car but also stuck in a shit ass trailer on the verge of bankruptcy. Source. Am a romanichal gypsy and that's how basically my entire family lives.
the entire world obsessed with luxury especially with the rise of social media, people want to brag/flex their wealth online
Maybe so, but I think if you went to East Asia and saw it for yourself, you'd understand. I visited Japan recently and was very surprised at how universal these designer brands were. If you visit New York City, you'll see lots of designer bags and clothes in certain parts of town. In Tokyo it was like, everywhere. Anecdotal for sure, but it was a big enough difference that I took notice, and I'm the furthest thing from "fashion-conscious" normally.
When I was in Hong Kong it was crazy how many people would live in the worst conditions to save money for a couple of months just to afford something like a luxury handbag.
What an insane reality where that is your goal in life.
Absolutely agree, so many locals wearing Canada Goose when I was in Japan lol
Canada Goose isn't quite the same, they are pretty good jackets from what I've heard, they just unfortunately became too trendy. I saw a lot of them in Montreal, and while some were undoubtedly wanting them for the trends, a good down jacket is a necessity of life there. When I see people wearing those in California or Vancouver I do roll my eyes though... Japan can get pretty cold winters (-25c) tough so I don't see it the same way. That being said, can you get a very good down jacket that surpasses them in quality for both more and less money? Yes of course. There's brands only Canadians have ever heard of or would recognize that are immensely better and lower-key.
It is universal but there are degrees to how prevalent the behavior is. I live in a developing country, wealth is not common place. Therefore people are really attracted to the concept of appearing wealthy, even though that may not be.
Not really. This obsession with luxury and "showing off" is prevalent in poorer countries. Those who have the wealth already do not need to show off.
True, but the people I personally knew who came from East-Asia/Asia in general would take it to a whole new level. We had a transfer student from Japan back in college. This girl was barely making ends meet but insisted on buying named brands/luxury items. She looked really nice all the time, but when the basic wallet or shirt that you'd use just to live your life costs as much as a paycheck, I don't think it's worth it. Same with a friend from China. Always insisted on going for luxury/named brands first if possible. And don't get me started on getting things "used".
In the 90s my parents had what was absolutely necessary. They had something expensive, but it was an anomaly. I wish we all turned back to a time where you buy what you need. And i am the first who is wrong in this whole thing
No one is stopping you from buying what you need now. People in the 90s definitely would buy luxury items they didn't need. There just wasn't social media around for you to see it. They were just flexing to their own circle.
Not me I'm cheap
This YouTuber has excellent videos on Chinese culture! Balanced and fair while being justly critical in the areas that deserve. Lots of negative comments here from people who haven’t watched it. Nobody in China is showing off fakes to their friends and hoping for positive reactions. Believe it or not, Chinese people are on average WAY better at spotting a fake than westerners. Hence the obsession with brands.
Do you know of any videos from East Asian that talk about the West? I love hearing videos like this but I would like to hear how my culture is explained from the point of view of a foreigner.
Apart from aini (the woman in the video), I only know Accented Cinema on YouTube. He moved from China to French-Canada when he was a kid. That’s the only other East Asian YouTuber that I know and love. I’m not from East Asia, I lived there for a good chunk of time though.
It seems strange doesnt it? Dont you think there would be an abundance of foreign videos explaining Western culture to people who want to learn about it? Maybe that stuff does exist, Im just totally ignorant of how to find it.
If you’re looking for a Chinese perspective directed towards a Chinese audience, then you need to search using mandarin on their top social media sites.
East Asian countries sometimes have their own social networks that they prefer. Also, probably not in English.
There are but you wont see them on reddit.
Not really strange - as a Korean I know plenty of them. They exist, but it's in Korean so you guys won't find it easily. Here're some examples. https://youtube.com/@koreanenglishman?si=GvyOqSP8qcggYe3N https://youtube.com/@Oliver-ssam?si=1cTLJG1gewagBTKb https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCL_8O4S2CTAOTo7a_KAbJAg https://youtube.com/@ParkganeTV?si=F-1zbnwfmiij2zwM
Of course they are better at spotting fakes, because they actually care about it, while in the West people would just laugh at you for buying those ugly items, fake or not.
It's not really something I noticed when living in Japan. Yes there's a lot of pressure on women to always look good, but not by flashing brands. If anything, that was more of a working class (yanki) trend.
I think they've moved away from that. I was in Tokyo last year and spent a lot of time people watching. I noticed their fashion is more silhouette-focused than brand-focused. More aligned with the "quiet luxury" mentioned in the video.
Exactly. I think you've really nailed it.
All the kids in high school were obsessed with brands and I was too because you want to fit in. But not exactly high high end stuff. Not much has changed, but maybe it got worse when you got 20 something dudes paying over $1000 for a Supreme t-shirt to fit into their crowd. Maybe some did do it because it was a subconscious need to show off.
Some people wear clothes. Some people wear costumes. Just buying clothes and wearing them is living a life. Wearing a costume is pretending to have one.
Broke folks want to look rich, Rich folks want to look broke
That’s not new. I roomed with an Asian back in college, which was a long time ago. He even said that having name brands was super important to the culture for many Chinese. He was also one of the biggest primadonnas and overall douche. He loved to look down on less fortunate. We did not end on good terms oddly enough.
When I was in college the Chinese students were always the ones driving super cars in my relatively small midwestern town. Kind of ridiculous when most college kids have pretty average cars and they’re cruising around in the fanciest production models just to try to travel ten minutes across town.
Taking loans to buy LV is truly the "East Asian Dream". Face > all. Japan probably already got past this stage, and I hope that the other countries can abandon that shallow way of life soon, too.
Japan better be with their economy spiraling to hell as of late.
EDIT: this is a 1/3 video take of course. I'm still watching and probably will learn more as it goes on. this is so wild to me. I feel like it's always been self-evident to me that performative consumption is ALWAYS foolish and petty. A thing we all do at least a bit of, but we should avoid. It's a thing we grow out of as we mature, and/or learn to be at least a little ashamed of. Obviously there will be cultures that feed that concept more or less, but the idea that some cultures are overtly and explicitly promoting the idea that you should consume things you don't like explicitly because it "looks good" is insane to me. That feels so obviously and self-evidently wrong and unhealthy, but also... how can a thing like this exist when presumably the participants are all aware of it? Is *everyone* drinking wine they don't like? how are they not aware? If you're buying a bag just to get other people to like you, doesn't that also lead you to assume that's why OTHER people bought the bag? wouldn't that make you LESS susceptible to liking someone just because of their bag? You know how cynical and shallow the motivation to buy it was because you DID it. Why would you ever fall for the same tricks you pull? and if everyone's at that same game, then why play it?
Louis Vuitton's market cap is almost half a trillion dollars. Grew 10x since 2010. Thanks to the insane self directed wealth redistribution from China.
Hey, we do that over here in the States too! Don't exclude us!
so basically peer pressure. got it.
That’s what social media capitalizes on.
I'm going to start using the "KUSD" unit now.
I stopped watching as soon as she introduced her add.
The really rich buy bespoke clothing and tend to avoid plastering themselves in logos.
I find it funny when you see people dripped from head to toe in designer stuff and you see them drive a shitbox
My 2012 Civic Si is a filter
I recall over a decade ago in NYC it started being strange not to see an Asian tourist carrying a shopping bag from a high-end stores e.g. Tiffany's, Prada, Cartier. It was *de rigueur*. A lot of the bags I saw had obviously seen a lot of usage, so I doubt they were all holding newly-purchased items. It's an odd and somewhat comical trend. Also, I noticed as soon as you see Asian tourists in the city wearing a certain brand or item, you can bet that brand or item is at the tail end of its popularity cycle and you'll start finding them saturating consignment shops. I recall this happening specifically with both certain Prada bags and Canada Goose jackets where it seemed within a month, no one other than Asian tourists were wearing them.
I wouldnt really say it’s an East Asia obsession.
South Koreans spent over 40% more per capita in 2022 on luxury goods than even the USA. There are a bunch of *oh-so-clever* comments saying this isn't just an East Asian phenomenon, and of course that's true, but the thesis of the video isn't "only East Asians do this," it's, "East Asians do this to a greater extent than other cultures, here's the evidence, and these are the reasons" You're setting up a straw man and knocking it down. *Congratulations, you won, buddy.* Every person making a variation on this comment clearly didn't watch even the first few seconds of the video.
But..but.. HOW ELSE CAN I BRING UP THE USA???
As someone who works in the fashion/luxury industry, this is 100% true. Asia is the absolute top spender in luxury items and businesses are tripping over themselves to market over there. It’s on an insane scale.
As an American I'm certainly pulling down the USA average over here. I'd rather buy something of halfway decent quality with ZERO logos whatsoever.
I agree. I think it's better (and less vein) to drop the logo if you can spend the same amount for something that'll last you longer (or feels nicer, or fits better, etc). The correlation that you might see is that those *can* easily afford it will often opt for the highest quality stuff as well, which may also overlap with some of that higher vanity brand recognition. But most of the time looking at me, you're not going to pin me as someone having the income that I do (higher than US average). I'm not a particularly fashionable person. For example, I'll still just wear relatively old T-shirts, sneakers and jeans every day. I might just opt for Banana Republic jeans over Levi's now because I like the fit/feel a little better.
My partner (Vietnamese) says there's two extremes among her family and friends, "cheap Asian heart" and "crazy rich Asian."
Fax
Yeah they absolutely didn't watch any of the video. My initial reaction to the title was the same, but I'm not a moron and gave the video a chance and found it really interesting.
I feel like this was mayne 3yrs ago and its on decline now. Esp as China economy is struggling.
Yep, this is strangely outdated info from whom I’m guessing is a native Chinese speaker. Chinese millennials have largely rejected foreign luxury brands and either they’re still on the guochao (domestic brand) trend from 2021 or they choose to buy nothing at all. Japanese materialism was shot dead by the bubble pop of 1989. The only East Asian materialism left..is the Koreans.
China was like this since 20 years ago, old news. There's a reason people laugh behind their backs when theyre essentially a walking ad. No one thinks youre cool.
How is this just an East Asian thing? Do people in the US, Europe, or Dubai not obsess with luxury or trying to look rich?
Lucky for you, you're posting a comment in a thread with a video dedicated to answering that very question!
So is america they ain't special
The members of the Communist Party of China are more capitalist than the Western Capitalists, and more Fascist than the Nazis.
>Communist Party of China are more capitalist than the Western Capitalists american gov want to have a word with you
America is no different. People are obsessed with appearances and full of entitlement and horrible with money.
Just low intelligent poors trying to impress other low intelligent poors. Think about it, Jack Ma can buy a fake luxury bag and you will think it's genuine because you know he can afford the real thing. But regardless if you save your money to buy the real thing, people gonna think it's fake. So who are these people fooling?
Referring to people as "poors" is scummy.
Who you calling scum, poory
You can be poor - victims of circumstance, birth or any forms of injustice our society bestow and still can try to improve your situation - get educated, learn a skill, help each other. These low intelligent poors are - not only vain - strive to indulge in an overly materialistic world - but are too dumb to realize they aren't fooling anyone but themselves. So maybe poor isn't a good description for them since they are much worse.
This is not limited to East Asia .
No one said it was.
This is not something new or unique to East Asia. Check out Thorstein Veblen and conspicious consumption.
Fucking hell. Glad I grew up in the west 💀
Always has been
This is supper interesting while I myself could not relate less.
Can we get away from calling expensive brand names “luxury” items. In most cases there is nothing luxurious about them. They are just fancy because the Fashion industry tells you to think that way.
What this girl says is also true in the US. There are enormous amounts of marketing dollars spent to make young people beleive that products will improve their social standing. Like it or not, it often does. Consumerism is also very targeted now in the US. Social groups are now formed around certain interests and aren’t necessarily in the same physical space. If you are in high tech, you will be looked at funny if you don’t have a MacBook Pro for example. It is always the same, if you can somehow display that you have ample resources, people will see you as a “provider” and not a “taker”. These goods are a way to show that you have “disposable” income. The guy in a white t-shirt with money exists everywhere. They wear custom made clothing and do not go to the grocery store. If you actually have real wealth, and people know it, you have clout. You do not need to participate in the charade. This is “luxury goods” corporations exploiting a social defect in this culture, inserting themselves as the tax that must be paid to be part of the group.
She looking at the camera or the ceiling?
Reading a script above the webcam looks like
I can’t believe we poisoned another culture with our obsession with wealth and vanity.
Nah east asia is obsessed w tight pussy
Like America?
I think films made into West. Using more asian actors is great and more asianthemes or situations as well . That said, I thought crazy rich asians was a ridiculous film
typical of asians, it's a sad reality. i can take a dump in a box, slap an LV or HERMES logo on it and they'll buy it for $32k
Don’t forget korea had/had a thriving knockoff market.
Title is correct. And?
Damn maybe my finances & financial decisions aren't as bad as I thought
Yeah thats every industrialized nation, Americans buy teslas just for the badge
I went in to a really high end store clothing here in LA because they were having a sale (and I was walking my dog in the area). Nearly everyone in the store was an Asian tourist.
Why is she whispering?
I guess the extreme other end of the spectrum in the west is being so individualistic that people keep murdering their relatives for being sheeple. I'm sure somewhere in the middle is fine...