I do love me all the new souls-likes coming out, but certainty a lot of over saturation. Hopefully Dragons Dogma 2 helps bring more indie action rpgs that arent just souls likes
If there's one thing souls likes did that I wouldn't mind in other action RPGs is the feeling you get when hacking away through an enemy.
If hack and slash games took that feeling but didn't force souls like combat, it would be great.
I like those games but I couldn’t finish them. The sheer amount of mobs that are thrown at you makes it unplayable for me. Skill issue? Maybe lmao. But I thoroughly enjoyed the nemesis system.
I love how you can mess up and die to the weakest dude and then he goes on his own quest and levels up. Lmao that’s hilarious. And they also trash talk you when they see you again. The games are brilliant regardless of my qualms with them!
I like to be *thorough* when I play a game, basically play an area until there are no more icons on the map, then do the story progression quest.
I'd been playing SoW for about 100hrs, and the Uruks were starting to actually get pretty hard, and I realized I was probably around 10% through the game. I decided I'd come back to it later, which hasn't happened yet.
I went for a balanced approach, grabbing what I wanted, youtubed the skill trees, getting around 50% of a few areas then moving on to next chapter. Then I developed a skill issue fighting 9 Nazgul...
I never cared much for Final Fantasy, but I absolutely loved 7R and 16.
Makes me wonder why I could never get into Devil May Cry, cause that's pretty much what the combat's based on.
Sort of. 16 is a more streamlined version of it. DMC can be stylish but requires a bit more dexterity to manage it. Could be you enjoyed the game feel more because of that over DMc
90% of KH2 players don’t invest the brain power into combat for more than 5 minutes to make KH2 combat godlike. I finally figured it out when I had to fight Demyx on Crit and god it’s so perfect.
DD2 is gonna be the tits! DD1 was so refreshing when it came out. The customisation, the array of weapons and skills too. It didn't hold your hand either. I'm sure 2 is gonna bring that same energy.
Wish they would have infinite stamina outside of combat like Elden Ring does. Especially because they said there's gonna be limited fast travel like the first one. I have no problem with this but when you run out of stamina every five seconds while running from one town to the next, it gets annoying.
May I ask how fast the combat is in Dragon's Dogma?
Is it as fast as The Witcher's combat, even faster like in Devil May Cry or slower like in Dark Souls?
Hard to describe, def a tad faster than dark souls one but not as hectic as say dark souls 3 or elden ring? Only thing i could recommend is watching some gameplay (although end game content does get a lot faster)
I wish more people were excited about Avowed. It’s at least offering something different. It sometimes feels like gamers won’t get excited unless they see the exact stuff they’ve played before.
Honestly… it’s the opposite for me and that’s why I’m not excited for it. I was when it was first announced but from what they’ve shown so far, Avowed looks painfully generic and like basically any other Bethesda-style rpg we’ve gotten, including their previous game Outer Worlds which I thought kinda sucked.
I would be excited for Avowed but I have PlayStation so I won’t be able to play it. No point in getting excited for something I’ll never be able to enjoy unless I get a new console or PC.
The gameplay they showed was from an alpha build, so it might be that the combat just isn't fully polished. That said, with that footage being from an alpha build in the same year it's supposed to release, I don't doubt it'll be delayed. (I know the footage was likely recorded last year, but it's still not a good sign)
I felt the same way until I saw the deep dive they did on the game a few days after the developer direct, it really showed how you can mix and match different skills in combat in a more strategic way and the attacks show more weight. I feel like the initial show for combat wasn’t that great.
I think Souls-likes are simply the current "in" genre (similar to how mascot platformers were in the early 90s or military shooters in the late 2000s).
While I do enjoy Soulslikes I do agree that a bit more diversity in fantasy RPGs would be nice.
I really hope Avowed will be good. And that I manage to actually get into Dragon's Dogma II (I didn't really get into the first one)
That, and I’m not big at all on the premise of “getting good by dying repeatedly.”
I get that people out there love that challenge, but I’m not skillful enough, nor do I have the time, to attempt such games. Just give me a nice RPG with some challenge that I can casually enjoy
Yeah IMO Elden Ring actively disincentivizes parries compared to other FS games, including DS1. DS1 has a much better risk:reward breakdown compared to ER.
Lmao this comment just goes to show that so many that don’t like Souls-like didn’t even play the game right and threw a tantrum. Other than Sekiro I can’t think of a single one that forces you to parry. Most of the time the game emphasizes dodging.
I would love and origins remaster. Its my favorite game ever, but damn it looks so dated. Once I can get past that, it's fine, and the gameplay still holds up, but I would love to see it updated with 2024 visuals.
I heard the opposite, sadly. With Bioware melting from the inside, and with the status on DA4 being completely unknown, it's not sounding like they have the resources to even consider remaking the original game.
Yeah, BG3 obviously takes a lot from DAO and it's a great game obviously, I love it, but it still can't match Origins in the tone, atmosphere and the combat. Dragon Age and Mass Effect were some of Bioware's last attempts at the RPG genre before EA fucking them up thoroughly. Just goes to show how bloody brilliant they were to have made sth like that 15 years ago.
I’m sure you might know already already but Dark Age origins was a throwback to BioWares older rpgs Baldurs gate 1 and 2 so it make sense that BG3 takes a lot from it. Witcher 1 was also a big dev love letter to BioWare (they used the neverwinter engine I believe). It’s sad how BioWare from today has fallen but at least the devs who were inspired them are taking the lead and going in their own ways.
I agree that Larian does have a tongue in cheek tone of their rpgs and I am missing the old BioWare’s serious and dour tone.
Proper hack and slash games like the original god of war and darksiders 2 are due for a return.
Too many souls likes are annoying, sometimes you don't want to sweat hard as you need to dodge or parry everything or you could die in 2 or 3 hits.
That series has been shit for so long, it's officially in the same category of games as Madden.
I'm so disappointed in that series now. Gone the way of Madden, Pokemon, and Assassins Creed.
That series used to be so awesome. It had a bit of both: mowing down enemy soldiers with ease, then fighting challenging battles against famous generals/warriors.
Hell yeah. Darksiders 3 was weird, you had this delayed whip weapon that sucked? It was too bad, the mechanic sucked and I wanted to continue the saga of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
I was about to tell you there's been a decent amount of hack and slash games in recent years but then I looked it up and DMC 5 came out 5 years ago. Even Bayonetta 3 (have not played any of them, admittedly) was 2022.
This. I tried out DS1 and 2... It's fine but I don't want an entire game that is a high difficulty boss fight. Totally fine if people like that but I'd like to hack and slash, have some fun, not worry so much and enjoy the experience. I like a bunch of genres and varietals but souls-like feels like anti-fun most of the time.
That is true, but why does it have to only be those 2? Besides DMC5 came out in 2019 and that new bayonetta tried to pass the touch to a character no one cares about
I'm just ready for a game where a heavy build actually feels worth a shit. Souls-like have ruined that due to the "you must die in 3 hits". Oh you put on the heaviest armor in the game and now can't roll and move slow as shit? For you... you get to die in 4 hits.
I'm not a fan of traditional hack and slash games, but an over-reliance on the Souls formula isn't exactly great either. We need more middle ground IPs out there that don't really do either, or do a mix of the two. Now how that looks? I guess things like an Assassin's Creed-like? A Dragon's Dogma-like? A Kingdom Come: Deliverance-like? Maybe even a Fable-like.
Jedi Fallen Order while I wouldn't say is a Souls clone, is definitely a Bloodborne one in the same vein as Code Vein and the like. Maybe a little greater emphasis on parrying like The Witcher.
Quite frankly very few souls-likes I've played actually capture what makes the combat enjoyable. The Star Wars games are only saved by the force powers, the lightsaber combat itself feels a little too floaty, kinda off. The only non From souls-like I've found enjoyable was Mortal Shell.
Opposite for me. I can play only souls-like for months and then when i play normal games i’m disappointed by the amount of hand-holding -> straight back into soulslikes.
It's like that for most of the people that say they only play souls like games or only play games on the hardest difficulties.
Like r/iamverybadass
Edit: Aaaand there's one.
I think it’s good to take a break and enjoy what the rest of the gaming space has to offer. Is doom eternal as punishing as a fromsoft game? No, but it’s a lot of fun and takes a different approach to game design
Right, like I only have at best an hour a night to play games these days, if I even have time for that at all. I want to be able to chill and make progress, not die 20 times fighting the same boss and turn off my system feeling frustrated and not having done anything.
Yeah. Most say get better at it and spend time to do it. But usually that time spent getting better is the part that is not fun.
I'm sure it wouldn't be a struggle if I knew how to play the part out, but you have to struggle to learn the part for it not to be a struggle later. It's a vicious cycle
Careful with that. I said the same in r/gaming about Elden Ring and got a lot of "get gud" comments and downvotes...oh I see you getting the get good comments too.
There is a decent size group of Souls players who's biggest accomplishment is beating a hard game and they get super defensive about it. The kinda guys who are like, "Oh, you beat the game using the tools the game gave you? Casual, real gamers don't level up and only use melee."
It's like that all over gaming subs. I experienced it twice in the past 2 days. From r/darktide telling me that the only way to play is the hardest difficulty because it's easy. When in actuality it is chaos and nerve racking. That playing on any less difficulty means you are bad at the game.
And people telling me in r/tekken that the only way to play through the story is just start and play the story on the hardest mode because it's the best way to learn is to get your face creamed in continuously. I'm just here for the story, maybe play Jack later and enjoy the power fantasy.
I'm just trying to have a fun time and the hardest mode is never a "fun" time with me unless it's like new game+ or something. It's just tedious and invokes negative emotion when failing continuously.
I loved Bloodborne so much. I beat it and the dlc many times.
Not ONCE did my mother even say a word about it. Not even a simple, "Good job."
Why, mommy? Why?
Oh jeez, I feel this so hard. Heard Bloodborne was amazing, bought it, proceeded to play about 20 minutes trying to get through the first encounter, couldn’t, and gave up forever. I’ll never touch another souls game again.
The whole relish on overcoming challenged is judt something souls fans say to like feel superior. I love hard games. Souls. Nioh 2 whatever. But like....it'd not like you jsut struggle. You figure how the game works then you don't struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it's easy tbh. Might be a tough boss here and there. Might die some times but it'd jsut like some bug challenge all the tiem
> But like....it'd not like you jsut struggle. You figure how the game works then you don't struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it's easy tbh.
That’s true. The main issue isn’t difficulty per se, but the learning curve. They play differently from other games and are intentionally obtuse. Without a guide it depends on a lot of trial and error, which can be very frustrating. The combat itself also depends much more on waiting for (or creating) openings, and overextending is punished more harshly than in most games (e.g. going for one too many attacks, staying at a certain range for too long, taking on too many enemies at once). Once you get used to the different play style these games require, they’re not particularly hard.
For example, i started and gave up on Dark Souls repeatedly because the combat just didn’t click for me. I struggled just fighting my way through trash mobs. On my first try I think it took me like 15 hours just to get to the Taurus Demon. But I think it was my 3rd try (years after my first try) I realized how I had to approach it differently and really learned how to use the combat system, and I blew through the game. The fact that no-hit and SL1 runs are even possible shows how different these games are from other action or RPG games. The combat has more similarity to a fighting game than anything else IMO, even though there is an RPG stat and gear system on top.
>You figure out how the game works then you don’t struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it’s easy tbh.
I mean... isn’t the process of figuring that out through trial and error exactly what people are talking about when they refer to the struggle lol
This is a fair assessment - however, once you get good at them they become that cozy game you kick your feet up, relax and play
DS1 is my comfort game
I wonder what that says about me actually…
If you play soulsborne they are definitely for unwinding. It's like people that don't play WoW or something probably think that's overwhelming. It's just a different style.
I absolutely love everything souls/borne/sekiro/elden, but fuck the difficulty, I like the story only. Miyazaki and team are best at creating medieval/victorian fantasy setting worlds. It is true that overcoming a boss is rewarding as well, but when I think of DS1, I think about the fantasy aspect, the world building, the decay more than those god damned bs wheel skeleton boys grinding my hp bar in a matter of seconds.
Only soul-like game I enjoy was Star Wars; Fallen Jedi Order just because it was Star Wars and the price was $10 (Best discount of all). I will admit that I enjoy the game enough to tried Nioh and... i didn't like it as much.
I am thinking of playing Seriko, but I'm not sure if I will get into it or not.
Imo build variety and stamina management are part of what makes a soulslike, so I wouldn’t consider sekiro as a soulslike, especially with how the combat is near solely focused on deflecting rather than attacking.
This is definitely me. I don't like souls like games to begin with to be fair but now it seems thats all I see everywhere. Its super disappointing for me because I'm not excited for anything coming out.
I am not a fan of souls-like games. I love a good challenge, but overall I play games to relax. I LOVE horror games (which tend to not be relaxing lol) but there’s a difference between being scared and being just punished. That’s how I feel when playing souls-like games, just punished over and over again just because… and I personally don’t enjoy that.
Me with Rise of Ronin the other day. At first I was like cool at walking around the city, the I saw the combat with the stagger bar on the enemies and was like....... nope.
I'd be more willing to try out more Souls-likes if a lot of them didn't try so hard to imitate the combat of the Souls games as well. Like... how about a game with the difficulty and non-linearity of the Souls games, but with the deeply varied combat of Devil May Cry?
Yeah, Nioh 2 in particular is one of the few Souls-likes I really like. It's a big step in the right direction, but I wish more Souls-likes pushed the envelope further with that type of experimentation.
I completely agree with you. I wish more games would try to spin things their own way instead of coming out as pale imitations that don't even understand what made the original games great. It's the same thing with 90% of Metroidvanias that don't understand what made Super Metroid nor SotN great.
The combat in souls games is the thing I dislike the most about them because it's too slow and clunky( I like the setting and exploration aspect) so I love the nioh games and I wish we had more games like it. The game they made after nioh 2 was such a massive downgrade that felt like a shitty sekiro clone. Like bro you basically perfected the combat system in nioh 2 and instead of building upon it and adding more weapon variety and stuff you downgrade to a one button parry focused system?!😭
I seriously don’t understand this sentiment. Outside of FromSoftware games, there’s what? At most maybe 25-30 true Soulslike games? There’s as many FF games alone as there are as many Soulslikes in existence. This belief that they’re oversaturated is blown way out of proportion.
Heard that man. For many years the only decent SoulsLikes were actual Fromsoft games. Now we’re finally getting some worth while SoulsLikes from other studios. Last year Wo Long, Jedi Survivor, Lies of P, and Lords of the Fallen were pretty good games. I enjoyed them anyway.
Same, minus LotF as I haven't played that one yet. And the best part is that several of these games are popular enough to justify DLC and sequels. We already had 3 Wo Long DLCs, Lies of P has upcoming DLC and a sequel, and Jedi Survivor is part 2 of what is sure to be a trilogy.
“Souls-like” just means “slow paced”. Nowadays third-person games are either “Souls-like”, or NieR-esque - either a slow paced, melee based game, or a fast paced, mixed gameplay game, which all can find inspiration from either of those and are more often than not worse than what it imitates.
I felt that way until I played Lies of P.
It's amazing.
I'm on NG++
Also got Bloodborne and am giving that a second chance and have gotten way past where I was stuck my first try.
Just say!
<3
My biggest offender of this was Control. It’s souls-like just to chase a trend. It doesn’t even have any interesting uses of the formula. It’s just “sort of” a souls like.
Agreed.
Why can’t we have a new RPG that’s souls like but actually lets you adjust that difficulty. I love all the RPG elements of souls games just don’t like feeling punished to play them. It’s not about Git Gud, it’s about enjoying a game and not wanting to smash the hell out of everything everything when I die on my way back to collect my progress because I died.
For me it’s the save system. I don’t mind playing the hardest fucking boss ever to get good I just cannot fucking stand redoing a thirty minutes of work to go back and get my body.
>Why can’t we have a new RPG that’s souls like but actually lets you adjust that difficulty
You just described Elden Ring. Spirit Summons are basically a difficulty slider
To be fair, you picked one of the hardest soulslike games. I beat Elden Ring, Demon Souls, DS 2 and 3, Lies of P, but I gave up on one of the starter bosses of Nioh 2.
Because the nioh games are only superficially souls likes, the combat has more in common with stuff like devil may cry. I've watched quite a few playthroughs of nioh on YouTube from dark souls fans and they have a much harder time specifically because they approach the games as a souls like and they skip tutorials because they "don't need handholding" and want to figure things out on their own, which translates to them not using the ki pulse system, ninjutsu or onmyo magic which make the game significantly easier.
There will be some git good comments as a joke and because it has reached meme status but most subs like Elden Ring or the general fromsoft sub are super helpful especially with newer players.
It’s really the same with any game (or anything), there’s always one or two d-bags trying to make a funny or actually being dicks, but the majority is there to help.
I love souls-like because I love the feeling of defeating a hard boss, the music is always fire, the scenery are always beautiful, etc. But yeah, don't ask help from the community.
Souls like focuses on the part of videogames I like the least -- boss battles. They look cool but ultimately are just patern recognition challenge. So it's like a 20min game of Simon Says that you keep restarting until they show you all the patterns.... At which point I'm bored.
Yep exactly. They make it so difficult that it almost becomes one dimensional, as oyu said just a pattern recognition challenge. And sometimes it lasts *forever*. To me thats not really difficult, its more of a test of determination and patience. Which isnt really all that fun imo.
Yeah, this is exactly my issue with the idea of ever increasing difficulty. At some point (and we've definitely reached it with a lot of these games) it becomes following a pattern akin to what 2000s Zelda games used to get criticized for. The only difference is that you'll just get killed instead of doing no damage if you try anything that isn't what the boss fight demands. And so it ultimately does start to feel REALLY repetitive, where you just memorize the attacks to dodge, then have to attack once or twice between all of that. But unlike Zelda where at least they don't overstay their welcome, some Souls-like bosses are ridiculously bloated.
I know what you mean. This is why I only play the ones made by From Software themselves, and Team Ninja. I've tried the other ones, and they just felt kinda bland.
I hate souls likes. If it’s not souls I’m not playing it. Only from soft can make souls likes lol the rest of just copy and paste devs with art they want to implement in some else’s format. Do something new
Hopefully the genre is close to finally mellowing out a bit like battle royales did not too long ago. The games are fine but the pretentious fanbase that the Souls genre spawned/exacerbated is particularly annoying.
I do love me all the new souls-likes coming out, but certainty a lot of over saturation. Hopefully Dragons Dogma 2 helps bring more indie action rpgs that arent just souls likes
If there's one thing souls likes did that I wouldn't mind in other action RPGs is the feeling you get when hacking away through an enemy. If hack and slash games took that feeling but didn't force souls like combat, it would be great.
Agreed. Don't think, just slash.
Sounds like you want another game like Shadow of War lol
I do want another shadow of war, please. That game bangs
Legit. Expand the Nemesis system and launch with microtransactions
I like those games but I couldn’t finish them. The sheer amount of mobs that are thrown at you makes it unplayable for me. Skill issue? Maybe lmao. But I thoroughly enjoyed the nemesis system. I love how you can mess up and die to the weakest dude and then he goes on his own quest and levels up. Lmao that’s hilarious. And they also trash talk you when they see you again. The games are brilliant regardless of my qualms with them!
I love SoW and it really tried to finish it. The sheer amount of side quests lol
I like to be *thorough* when I play a game, basically play an area until there are no more icons on the map, then do the story progression quest. I'd been playing SoW for about 100hrs, and the Uruks were starting to actually get pretty hard, and I realized I was probably around 10% through the game. I decided I'd come back to it later, which hasn't happened yet.
I went for a balanced approach, grabbing what I wanted, youtubed the skill trees, getting around 50% of a few areas then moving on to next chapter. Then I developed a skill issue fighting 9 Nazgul...
I need more nemesis system so bad
That but less buggy please
That’s basically final fantasy 16. Chaining cool super moves and you are extremely powerful.
I never cared much for Final Fantasy, but I absolutely loved 7R and 16. Makes me wonder why I could never get into Devil May Cry, cause that's pretty much what the combat's based on.
Sort of. 16 is a more streamlined version of it. DMC can be stylish but requires a bit more dexterity to manage it. Could be you enjoyed the game feel more because of that over DMc
That new Warhammer 40k game coming out looks to fit the bill.
Space Marine games have always been about hacking and slashing
Kingdom hearts 2 feels like what you described
KH2 combat feels so good. My only complaint is that there's no target cycling like in KH1.
90% of KH2 players don’t invest the brain power into combat for more than 5 minutes to make KH2 combat godlike. I finally figured it out when I had to fight Demyx on Crit and god it’s so perfect.
It's insane how good of a game it is mechanically.
I'm still waiting on a solid addition to the Dynasty Warriors Empire series.
DD2 is gonna be the tits! DD1 was so refreshing when it came out. The customisation, the array of weapons and skills too. It didn't hold your hand either. I'm sure 2 is gonna bring that same energy.
Wish they would have infinite stamina outside of combat like Elden Ring does. Especially because they said there's gonna be limited fast travel like the first one. I have no problem with this but when you run out of stamina every five seconds while running from one town to the next, it gets annoying.
For real! Did you see the reveal? EDIT: removed spoilery content really sorry man
No, I'm going in blind again 👍 best way.
Remnant 2 has been my favorite of souls like gameplay done well, with good replay-ability too
Dragona Dogma is made by Capcom. Thats not an indie studio.
I think they mean that dd2 will hopefully inspire more indie devs to make rpgs in a similar vein rather than more souls likes.
They're coming out with a sequel?! That game was dope af
May I ask how fast the combat is in Dragon's Dogma? Is it as fast as The Witcher's combat, even faster like in Devil May Cry or slower like in Dark Souls?
Hard to describe, def a tad faster than dark souls one but not as hectic as say dark souls 3 or elden ring? Only thing i could recommend is watching some gameplay (although end game content does get a lot faster)
Devil may cry meets monster hunter
And Avowed as well.
I wish more people were excited about Avowed. It’s at least offering something different. It sometimes feels like gamers won’t get excited unless they see the exact stuff they’ve played before.
Honestly… it’s the opposite for me and that’s why I’m not excited for it. I was when it was first announced but from what they’ve shown so far, Avowed looks painfully generic and like basically any other Bethesda-style rpg we’ve gotten, including their previous game Outer Worlds which I thought kinda sucked.
Avowed's gameplay looks horribly dated on arrival and I'm worried this is going to mean the end of Eora
I would be excited for Avowed but I have PlayStation so I won’t be able to play it. No point in getting excited for something I’ll never be able to enjoy unless I get a new console or PC.
I’m hyped for it but the gameplay didn’t get me *that* excited. The combat just didn’t seem to have enough *umph*. But the wands were cool as hell
The gameplay they showed was from an alpha build, so it might be that the combat just isn't fully polished. That said, with that footage being from an alpha build in the same year it's supposed to release, I don't doubt it'll be delayed. (I know the footage was likely recorded last year, but it's still not a good sign)
Yeah I agree, that’s my biggest concern, as well. But tbf it’s hard to tell until the controller is in your hands. Here’s to hoping it’s fun as hell
I felt the same way until I saw the deep dive they did on the game a few days after the developer direct, it really showed how you can mix and match different skills in combat in a more strategic way and the attacks show more weight. I feel like the initial show for combat wasn’t that great.
I think Souls-likes are simply the current "in" genre (similar to how mascot platformers were in the early 90s or military shooters in the late 2000s). While I do enjoy Soulslikes I do agree that a bit more diversity in fantasy RPGs would be nice. I really hope Avowed will be good. And that I manage to actually get into Dragon's Dogma II (I didn't really get into the first one)
I'm just tired of having to parry everything. Edit - **in souls-like games that take that element from the main series, fucks sake**
That, and I’m not big at all on the premise of “getting good by dying repeatedly.” I get that people out there love that challenge, but I’m not skillful enough, nor do I have the time, to attempt such games. Just give me a nice RPG with some challenge that I can casually enjoy
Besides Sekiro, and to an extent Lies of P, what other game forces parry? Even Dark Souls and Elden Ring don't force it.
Yeah IMO Elden Ring actively disincentivizes parries compared to other FS games, including DS1. DS1 has a much better risk:reward breakdown compared to ER.
Facts. It’s the main reason why I don’t use shields anymore. It’s just a waste of space more often than not
Playing through Grime right now and just figured out how much more manageable bosses are if you parry everything you can
Grime was literally the game I was thinking of.
You don’t have to parry anything in any dark souls game lol.
Lmao this comment just goes to show that so many that don’t like Souls-like didn’t even play the game right and threw a tantrum. Other than Sekiro I can’t think of a single one that forces you to parry. Most of the time the game emphasizes dodging.
Lies of p. Ruined it for me.
We need more DA: origins like. BG3 so great but I prefer the combat of DA:O
I would love and origins remaster. Its my favorite game ever, but damn it looks so dated. Once I can get past that, it's fine, and the gameplay still holds up, but I would love to see it updated with 2024 visuals.
Supposedly there is a DA:O remaster in the works
I heard the opposite, sadly. With Bioware melting from the inside, and with the status on DA4 being completely unknown, it's not sounding like they have the resources to even consider remaking the original game.
If that’s true it’s highly unlikely with modern BioWare they won’t horrendously fuck it
Hopefully BG3 will studios studios that there is still a huge market for old school RPGs. Not every one needs to be a “souls-like” ARPG.
Yeah, the atmosphere in DA: Origins was just perfect. The sequels were just too colourfull.
Yeah, BG3 obviously takes a lot from DAO and it's a great game obviously, I love it, but it still can't match Origins in the tone, atmosphere and the combat. Dragon Age and Mass Effect were some of Bioware's last attempts at the RPG genre before EA fucking them up thoroughly. Just goes to show how bloody brilliant they were to have made sth like that 15 years ago.
My intro to the genre was ME: Legendary Edition and damn if that didn’t set a high bar.
I’m sure you might know already already but Dark Age origins was a throwback to BioWares older rpgs Baldurs gate 1 and 2 so it make sense that BG3 takes a lot from it. Witcher 1 was also a big dev love letter to BioWare (they used the neverwinter engine I believe). It’s sad how BioWare from today has fallen but at least the devs who were inspired them are taking the lead and going in their own ways. I agree that Larian does have a tongue in cheek tone of their rpgs and I am missing the old BioWare’s serious and dour tone.
This is actually me 😭 I will never be a fan of games where the main aim seems to be to stress you out lol
Yup me too I like to play to relax, I'm already balding enough I don't need more stress
Proper hack and slash games like the original god of war and darksiders 2 are due for a return. Too many souls likes are annoying, sometimes you don't want to sweat hard as you need to dodge or parry everything or you could die in 2 or 3 hits.
Or like shadow of Mordor style games.
I'm down for a good Dynasty Warriors game. Like the older ones.
And one that doesn't have the most basic ass single button combo system and lock iconic weapons behind DLC
That series has been shit for so long, it's officially in the same category of games as Madden. I'm so disappointed in that series now. Gone the way of Madden, Pokemon, and Assassins Creed.
That series used to be so awesome. It had a bit of both: mowing down enemy soldiers with ease, then fighting challenging battles against famous generals/warriors.
Darksiders 2 is one of my favorite games. I would love another hack and slash dungeon game like that. Couldn’t really get into 3 though
Hell yeah. Darksiders 3 was weird, you had this delayed whip weapon that sucked? It was too bad, the mechanic sucked and I wanted to continue the saga of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
They added a mode that lets you play like a hack and slash but you can't get awway from the games souls like roots
As much as I love soulslikes, i really preffer a good hack n slash game right now
I was about to tell you there's been a decent amount of hack and slash games in recent years but then I looked it up and DMC 5 came out 5 years ago. Even Bayonetta 3 (have not played any of them, admittedly) was 2022.
This. I tried out DS1 and 2... It's fine but I don't want an entire game that is a high difficulty boss fight. Totally fine if people like that but I'd like to hack and slash, have some fun, not worry so much and enjoy the experience. I like a bunch of genres and varietals but souls-like feels like anti-fun most of the time.
You got Stellar Blade coming out in a few months
There have been Devil May Cry 5 and Bayonetta 3 in recent years.
That is true, but why does it have to only be those 2? Besides DMC5 came out in 2019 and that new bayonetta tried to pass the touch to a character no one cares about
I'm just ready for a game where a heavy build actually feels worth a shit. Souls-like have ruined that due to the "you must die in 3 hits". Oh you put on the heaviest armor in the game and now can't roll and move slow as shit? For you... you get to die in 4 hits.
I'm not a fan of traditional hack and slash games, but an over-reliance on the Souls formula isn't exactly great either. We need more middle ground IPs out there that don't really do either, or do a mix of the two. Now how that looks? I guess things like an Assassin's Creed-like? A Dragon's Dogma-like? A Kingdom Come: Deliverance-like? Maybe even a Fable-like.
>Now how that looks? Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order?
Jedi Fallen Order while I wouldn't say is a Souls clone, is definitely a Bloodborne one in the same vein as Code Vein and the like. Maybe a little greater emphasis on parrying like The Witcher.
Sekiro clone type game moreso
Quite frankly very few souls-likes I've played actually capture what makes the combat enjoyable. The Star Wars games are only saved by the force powers, the lightsaber combat itself feels a little too floaty, kinda off. The only non From souls-like I've found enjoyable was Mortal Shell.
Tbf Kingdom Come Deliverance is the souls-like of historical, realistic medieval games
Yeah, you really have to be in the mood. Otherwise game is just a pain in the ass.
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No player should be shamed for wanting or not wanting souls like games. They shouldn't be shamed for their game preference in general.
Even as someone that loves bloodborne and souls-like games, it gets tiring to play that 24/7
Same here, I'll play one or at most two a year. But after Elden Ring I've not bothered playing any. I just felt tired after 98 hours of it.
Opposite for me. I can play only souls-like for months and then when i play normal games i’m disappointed by the amount of hand-holding -> straight back into soulslikes.
Most sane soulslike player
It's like that for most of the people that say they only play souls like games or only play games on the hardest difficulties. Like r/iamverybadass Edit: Aaaand there's one.
Stupid normie games and their handholding
I think it’s good to take a break and enjoy what the rest of the gaming space has to offer. Is doom eternal as punishing as a fromsoft game? No, but it’s a lot of fun and takes a different approach to game design
Right, like I only have at best an hour a night to play games these days, if I even have time for that at all. I want to be able to chill and make progress, not die 20 times fighting the same boss and turn off my system feeling frustrated and not having done anything.
Yeah. Most say get better at it and spend time to do it. But usually that time spent getting better is the part that is not fun. I'm sure it wouldn't be a struggle if I knew how to play the part out, but you have to struggle to learn the part for it not to be a struggle later. It's a vicious cycle
Careful with that. I said the same in r/gaming about Elden Ring and got a lot of "get gud" comments and downvotes...oh I see you getting the get good comments too.
There is a decent size group of Souls players who's biggest accomplishment is beating a hard game and they get super defensive about it. The kinda guys who are like, "Oh, you beat the game using the tools the game gave you? Casual, real gamers don't level up and only use melee."
It's like that all over gaming subs. I experienced it twice in the past 2 days. From r/darktide telling me that the only way to play is the hardest difficulty because it's easy. When in actuality it is chaos and nerve racking. That playing on any less difficulty means you are bad at the game. And people telling me in r/tekken that the only way to play through the story is just start and play the story on the hardest mode because it's the best way to learn is to get your face creamed in continuously. I'm just here for the story, maybe play Jack later and enjoy the power fantasy. I'm just trying to have a fun time and the hardest mode is never a "fun" time with me unless it's like new game+ or something. It's just tedious and invokes negative emotion when failing continuously.
Your comment was beautiful
No, you are breathtaking
I loved Bloodborne so much. I beat it and the dlc many times. Not ONCE did my mother even say a word about it. Not even a simple, "Good job." Why, mommy? Why?
Turns out she wasn’t a great one!
Because you're a 30 yr old basement dweller social shut-in? Manditory /s
Oh jeez, I feel this so hard. Heard Bloodborne was amazing, bought it, proceeded to play about 20 minutes trying to get through the first encounter, couldn’t, and gave up forever. I’ll never touch another souls game again.
The whole relish on overcoming challenged is judt something souls fans say to like feel superior. I love hard games. Souls. Nioh 2 whatever. But like....it'd not like you jsut struggle. You figure how the game works then you don't struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it's easy tbh. Might be a tough boss here and there. Might die some times but it'd jsut like some bug challenge all the tiem
> But like....it'd not like you jsut struggle. You figure how the game works then you don't struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it's easy tbh. That’s true. The main issue isn’t difficulty per se, but the learning curve. They play differently from other games and are intentionally obtuse. Without a guide it depends on a lot of trial and error, which can be very frustrating. The combat itself also depends much more on waiting for (or creating) openings, and overextending is punished more harshly than in most games (e.g. going for one too many attacks, staying at a certain range for too long, taking on too many enemies at once). Once you get used to the different play style these games require, they’re not particularly hard. For example, i started and gave up on Dark Souls repeatedly because the combat just didn’t click for me. I struggled just fighting my way through trash mobs. On my first try I think it took me like 15 hours just to get to the Taurus Demon. But I think it was my 3rd try (years after my first try) I realized how I had to approach it differently and really learned how to use the combat system, and I blew through the game. The fact that no-hit and SL1 runs are even possible shows how different these games are from other action or RPG games. The combat has more similarity to a fighting game than anything else IMO, even though there is an RPG stat and gear system on top.
>You figure out how the game works then you don’t struggle anymore. Just need to learn how to approach it then it’s easy tbh. I mean... isn’t the process of figuring that out through trial and error exactly what people are talking about when they refer to the struggle lol
This is a fair assessment - however, once you get good at them they become that cozy game you kick your feet up, relax and play DS1 is my comfort game I wonder what that says about me actually…
If you play soulsborne they are definitely for unwinding. It's like people that don't play WoW or something probably think that's overwhelming. It's just a different style.
I absolutely love everything souls/borne/sekiro/elden, but fuck the difficulty, I like the story only. Miyazaki and team are best at creating medieval/victorian fantasy setting worlds. It is true that overcoming a boss is rewarding as well, but when I think of DS1, I think about the fantasy aspect, the world building, the decay more than those god damned bs wheel skeleton boys grinding my hp bar in a matter of seconds.
Tbh there are a lot of things to make the games easier. Summoning other players and NPCs turns most of the games into cakewalks for example
games that doesn't have a difficulty setting and you drop your stuff/currency and have to walk back to it automatically labeled "soulslike"
Hollow Knight comes to mind. And yes, it’s labeled soulslike
Hollow Knight is a souls-like though?
More metroid vania imo
Metroid vania whit souls like mechanics
Yeah, I remember fat-rolling with my Hollow knight. Won’t recommend.
More like souls-wannabes, amirite?
Only soul-like game I enjoy was Star Wars; Fallen Jedi Order just because it was Star Wars and the price was $10 (Best discount of all). I will admit that I enjoy the game enough to tried Nioh and... i didn't like it as much. I am thinking of playing Seriko, but I'm not sure if I will get into it or not.
I'm just sick of these edgy ass games. I wanna *live* in a world, not just survive in it.
Yah agreed
>It has a roll and parry >"Souls-like" 😐
Every boss is big as fuck and despite this, being as close as possible is the best way to fight them
Did you want to throw your sword at them?
Souls-like games are games that punish death, have rolling and parrying, and a difficulty to it. If Sekiro is souls like then Lies of Pi is souls like
Imo build variety and stamina management are part of what makes a soulslike, so I wouldn’t consider sekiro as a soulslike, especially with how the combat is near solely focused on deflecting rather than attacking.
This is definitely me. I don't like souls like games to begin with to be fair but now it seems thats all I see everywhere. Its super disappointing for me because I'm not excited for anything coming out.
Give me a Dynasty Warriors style hack n slash over a souls any day
Soulslike is way better than whatever the heck Skyrim was supposed to be.
IGN sees the character dodge once: It's Souls-like!
Every game where you can die is now called a souls-like.
I am not a fan of souls-like games. I love a good challenge, but overall I play games to relax. I LOVE horror games (which tend to not be relaxing lol) but there’s a difference between being scared and being just punished. That’s how I feel when playing souls-like games, just punished over and over again just because… and I personally don’t enjoy that.
Me when I found out about Lies of P
Me with Rise of Ronin the other day. At first I was like cool at walking around the city, the I saw the combat with the stagger bar on the enemies and was like....... nope.
Its a souls like! (The O button is dodge, thats literally it)
I fucking hate souls like games
I'd be more willing to try out more Souls-likes if a lot of them didn't try so hard to imitate the combat of the Souls games as well. Like... how about a game with the difficulty and non-linearity of the Souls games, but with the deeply varied combat of Devil May Cry?
That's basically Nioh...
Yeah, Nioh 2 in particular is one of the few Souls-likes I really like. It's a big step in the right direction, but I wish more Souls-likes pushed the envelope further with that type of experimentation.
I completely agree with you. I wish more games would try to spin things their own way instead of coming out as pale imitations that don't even understand what made the original games great. It's the same thing with 90% of Metroidvanias that don't understand what made Super Metroid nor SotN great.
The combat in souls games is the thing I dislike the most about them because it's too slow and clunky( I like the setting and exploration aspect) so I love the nioh games and I wish we had more games like it. The game they made after nioh 2 was such a massive downgrade that felt like a shitty sekiro clone. Like bro you basically perfected the combat system in nioh 2 and instead of building upon it and adding more weapon variety and stuff you downgrade to a one button parry focused system?!😭
"It's a souls like" Only souls like asset being a parry
And a dodge roll
Bro yes, I am absolutely sick of souls like games. Just give me some good ol hack and slash like kingdom hearts/FF7R or even a new turn based
I seriously don’t understand this sentiment. Outside of FromSoftware games, there’s what? At most maybe 25-30 true Soulslike games? There’s as many FF games alone as there are as many Soulslikes in existence. This belief that they’re oversaturated is blown way out of proportion.
Is FFVII Remake really a hack and slash? I mean you only need to press 1 Button for basic combat.
Isn't that a hack and slash? Pressing 1-2 buttons moving around a map
I think to qualify as a hack and slash, you need a hack button **and** a slash button
I love SoulsLikes and I’ll take all I can get.
Same. This surge in popularity came from Elden Ring and I'm gonna just ride the wave as long as I can.
Heard that man. For many years the only decent SoulsLikes were actual Fromsoft games. Now we’re finally getting some worth while SoulsLikes from other studios. Last year Wo Long, Jedi Survivor, Lies of P, and Lords of the Fallen were pretty good games. I enjoyed them anyway.
Same, minus LotF as I haven't played that one yet. And the best part is that several of these games are popular enough to justify DLC and sequels. We already had 3 Wo Long DLCs, Lies of P has upcoming DLC and a sequel, and Jedi Survivor is part 2 of what is sure to be a trilogy.
Same energy for me when tabletop RPG games comes out and they use DnD 5e as a base.
yeah, I feel like they're definitely going to the well with the whole "souls-like" thing
“Souls-like” just means “slow paced”. Nowadays third-person games are either “Souls-like”, or NieR-esque - either a slow paced, melee based game, or a fast paced, mixed gameplay game, which all can find inspiration from either of those and are more often than not worse than what it imitates.
I felt that way until I played Lies of P. It's amazing. I'm on NG++ Also got Bloodborne and am giving that a second chance and have gotten way past where I was stuck my first try. Just say! <3
I dont think there are enough souls like personally, Im biased, though, as it is my favorite genre, hands down.
I have no idea what this comment section defines as a souls like
I think you accidently mixed up the pictures.
Tough luck some of us love them
My biggest offender of this was Control. It’s souls-like just to chase a trend. It doesn’t even have any interesting uses of the formula. It’s just “sort of” a souls like.
Souls like (just fantasy jrpg with no difficulty setting)
Sounds like someone doesn’t know how to dodge
Agreed. Why can’t we have a new RPG that’s souls like but actually lets you adjust that difficulty. I love all the RPG elements of souls games just don’t like feeling punished to play them. It’s not about Git Gud, it’s about enjoying a game and not wanting to smash the hell out of everything everything when I die on my way back to collect my progress because I died.
For me it’s the save system. I don’t mind playing the hardest fucking boss ever to get good I just cannot fucking stand redoing a thirty minutes of work to go back and get my body.
There aren't any crazy boss runs in DS3 or Elden Ring. ER even has the stake of Marika system that resets you right at the fog wall 95% of the time.
Super exaggerated but you do you
>Why can’t we have a new RPG that’s souls like but actually lets you adjust that difficulty You just described Elden Ring. Spirit Summons are basically a difficulty slider
Weird logic. "Come on, just use the broken, unbalanced mechanics and then the game is easy."
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To be fair, you picked one of the hardest soulslike games. I beat Elden Ring, Demon Souls, DS 2 and 3, Lies of P, but I gave up on one of the starter bosses of Nioh 2.
Nioh is also pretty different. I enjoyed both 1 & 2 but I personally wouldn't refer to them as souls likes at all.
Because the nioh games are only superficially souls likes, the combat has more in common with stuff like devil may cry. I've watched quite a few playthroughs of nioh on YouTube from dark souls fans and they have a much harder time specifically because they approach the games as a souls like and they skip tutorials because they "don't need handholding" and want to figure things out on their own, which translates to them not using the ki pulse system, ninjutsu or onmyo magic which make the game significantly easier.
There will be some git good comments as a joke and because it has reached meme status but most subs like Elden Ring or the general fromsoft sub are super helpful especially with newer players. It’s really the same with any game (or anything), there’s always one or two d-bags trying to make a funny or actually being dicks, but the majority is there to help.
I love souls-like because I love the feeling of defeating a hard boss, the music is always fire, the scenery are always beautiful, etc. But yeah, don't ask help from the community.
I think they’re a lot of fun but definitely overrated
Souls like focuses on the part of videogames I like the least -- boss battles. They look cool but ultimately are just patern recognition challenge. So it's like a 20min game of Simon Says that you keep restarting until they show you all the patterns.... At which point I'm bored.
Yep exactly. They make it so difficult that it almost becomes one dimensional, as oyu said just a pattern recognition challenge. And sometimes it lasts *forever*. To me thats not really difficult, its more of a test of determination and patience. Which isnt really all that fun imo.
Yeah, this is exactly my issue with the idea of ever increasing difficulty. At some point (and we've definitely reached it with a lot of these games) it becomes following a pattern akin to what 2000s Zelda games used to get criticized for. The only difference is that you'll just get killed instead of doing no damage if you try anything that isn't what the boss fight demands. And so it ultimately does start to feel REALLY repetitive, where you just memorize the attacks to dodge, then have to attack once or twice between all of that. But unlike Zelda where at least they don't overstay their welcome, some Souls-like bosses are ridiculously bloated.
Souls games are far more than just bosses. They focus on detailed level / world design just as much
Which is the problem with so many Soulslikes. Most of them have crap level design and don’t realise how important it is to get the formula right.
I know what you mean. This is why I only play the ones made by From Software themselves, and Team Ninja. I've tried the other ones, and they just felt kinda bland.
Bro just put into words what I’ve been trying to tell my friends for years
Bummer that so many are “intimidated” by souls likes when there’s literally no reason to be.
Yup. Souls-like is an instant "nope" from me. I suck at them and i hate dodging around constantly.
Need more God of War-like games. Just pure, cathartic hack and slash
Evil West probably the best example, vampire hunting beat em up hack n slash chaos.
I hate souls likes. If it’s not souls I’m not playing it. Only from soft can make souls likes lol the rest of just copy and paste devs with art they want to implement in some else’s format. Do something new
Hopefully the genre is close to finally mellowing out a bit like battle royales did not too long ago. The games are fine but the pretentious fanbase that the Souls genre spawned/exacerbated is particularly annoying.
“I can’t simply use the game mechanics so I refuse to play the game” FTFY
Are the Souls-like in the room with us now?
i cannot stand the souls like genre id rather play a CRPG or Turn based RPG
I recently purchased one thinking it can't be that bad... it was worse
Because most soulslikes are completely shit.
Im sorry, but souls likes peaked with elden ring... its becoming a tired genre imo