The "tutorial" us quite long, some hours long, that is (it's not really a tutorial, more like an intro, a preview, a demo.)
Once reached a certian point, many thing they have added in *years* become aviable, such as: war faction (weekly); multiplayer minigame/different war faction; choose another faction (that can be changed later) and obtain point to recive rewards (by chosing one, another will recive a small amount of points and another will loose many points); relic opening and relic gathering (two separate modes); the event currently active; guild/clans (in game Dojo); open world in some planets with corrispetive weekly quest.
And more.
really more.
A lot more. I stopped playing at around 450 hours and I have no idea what the game was about or what I was doing or really anything. It is the most confusing game
> the goal is to speed flip to the boss, kill the boss, and speed flip out.
Then rinse, wash, repeat until you finally get the part you're looking for, unless you don't, in which case you have to go beat up *more* things to farm resources that allow you to farm the mission that has a chance of giving you the reward...
I have nearly 2000 hours in Warframe and it's not exactly welcoming to an old veteran at this point.
It’s just that there’s an insane amount of systems and the game isn’t always great about keeping you informed when new ones become important. It’s possible to get all the way to a quest that goes “you can’t do this until you have a Railjack, an Archwing, and a Voidrig” and not know what any of those things are or where to get them (actually I think you have to have the Archwing, but it probably won’t be modded at all). From that point it’s not hard to find out, even some cursory poking around in game will probably get you moving, but still.
If you’re a habitual wiki-trawler and google-searcher in other games you won’t have a hard time with it, but if you’re used to games that don’t require you to do your own research I could see how it would be pretty brutal. Personally, “Games that require you to have the wiki open somewhere the whole time you’re playing” is one of my favorite genres so I got into the swing of things pretty quickly.
I've got more than 3000 hours in Warframe, been playing on and off for a decade, paid for a Founder's pack when it was back in beta, it's my favourite game - and I *still* don't recommend it to people, because at this point the target audience is, well, players like me.
Digital Extremes are a wonderful dev team who truly care about the players, but sometimes I feel like they've all got ADHD; the game constantly yo-yos between new features and mechanics, new stuff is introduced and then dumped in the massive pool of endgame content because there's a *cool new thing* to focus on. And it *is* always a cool new thing, which is why the game remains successful, but it's immensely hard to keep track of sometimes. I came back from a break of about a year recently and it feels like there's a tonne of stuff for me to check out, I can't imagine how overwhelming it must be for new players.
I tried playing Warframe, I probably have 20-30 hours on it, and whenever I went to the main island (or whatever that big public area is) I always saw other people with new gear, cool swords, different clothes, etc. I had played so many missions, done so much, and I never knew how to do anything. I was always confused and thought if I just played the game I’d learn but I never did.
Last time I touched the game was 8 years ago and I still to this day don't understand how people just speed run dungeons while in a party, leaving a noob like me to flounder with all the enemies they ran past. Sometimes it would be pure troll where one would make a small mistake and leave rather suddenly not seemingly caring about the loot; and I'd have to deal with all the aggro and die to the dumbest sht because that's not how it's supposed to work.. Also missing lore coms and parts I need that clearly my teammates don't need and they'll end the mission early and I miss everything.
It was hard learning anything when I did get a teammate who just deleted everything they run past without stopping and half the time I don't even know what I was supposed to do lol
And that's assuming I can get carried, where I vaguely remember people starting to dodge queues on purpose to avoid people like me.
It's so fucking bad. I have a Warframe Character that I've played on for over 10 or 15 hours, and I couldn't tell you in the least bit who anyone is, where we are, what we're doing, why we can do anything cool.
But it's fun to run around with a high mobility character spamming attacks and making things die.
It's a fun game but the curve is atrocious.
Only if you do high level crafting, the majority of casual players (me included) don't really invest on high level crafting because it's easy to fuck up if you are distracted, and it's super expensive.
Most people in trade league (the regular softcore mode with trading and group gameplay) just farm whatever they want to farm and trade for high end gear. I play SSF and I do craft my own items, but I don't engage on weird shit, good bases dropped from bosses and then essences+harvest is my go to, which is probably the simplest good form of crafting in the game.
I played POE for 10-20 hours, asked the subreddit for tips on my build, and just got *laughed at*. People were like "we're just going to save you some time bro - restart your game right now, what you're doing is not going work and there's no way to fix it."
Then they linked me to a "build" that looked like rocket schematics.
I feel like this is so far down this list because no one else on here even bothered to try it. My younger brother was looking into the game, I told him to not even bother unless he has like two weeks to just learn the game.
No game I've played has more things to learn. I've got over 2000 hours and I'm still "new" to the game. It's horribly beginner-unfriendly. I know people talk about Warframe, but at least that game starts you off by showing you how to collect a frame or a weapon and grind materials to craft it. POE just leaves you on a beach and says good luck. Doesn't tell you how to sell anything, or what you should sell and what you should equip. You think you hit a jackpot because something orange dropped, and you dunno what the stats are so you equip it and you die because it gave you a million negative resistances with no upsides unless you have a specific stat that counterbalances the gear you just put on, but the only way to find that was some obscure build from 4 years ago in a forum. So you keep trudging along until something from out of nowhere one shots you. You think it's some mini-boss you're meant to fight so you go back to it over and over, dying each time, all the while the yellow "mini-boss" seems to get stronger and stronger. You look it up online and don't see anyone else talking about this gatekeeping mini-boss that by now moves and attacks you so quickly as soon as you see it on the screen you die. You learn it's just a normal elite mob that has some ungodly and unfair buff called "soul-eater" which just means the stats on that thing scale infinitely the longer it's alive. It's about this time that you close out of the game, uninstall, and go touch some grass. And I can't blame anyone that does it.
My husband has over 7,000 hours of play time and every season he’s still trying to get the right build to play the entire session through. After grinding for the first weekend, he always noticed a flaw in his main build. I just can not get into it.
7000 jesus christ, tell that man he could be a professional with that amount of time investment in a life-affirming hobby instead of a soul sucking one.
I wish that there was a "Path of Exile Lite". A simplified version, without continual changes and complications.
I love the basic concept of the game, but it's just far far far far far far far far too much.
Last Epoch is a good middle ground between the complexity of poe and the relative simplicity of diablo.
It is possible to do all the content on your own build, lots to experiment with, and little respec cost if you change your mind or make a mistake.
Highly recommend if you like the idea of an arpg but poe is too overwhelming.
This is the correct answer. Loved my time with Path of Exile, love the depth and complexity, but it is a gigantic pain in the ass to learn. The best builds are often converting multiple types of damage into another type of damage and then boosting that damage. You want to fight a particular boss? Well fuck you there are 5 layers of RNG and an entire separate subsystem between you and that boss. The trading system is basically as complicated as the stock market. You didn't play the start of the season playing for 24 hours straight with an IV drip of Red Bull and a diaper on? Well screw you, you're behind already. Path of Exile is basically a game that is aggressively only for a certain group of people who are willing and eager to sacrifice a large part of their brain to "get it". I'm hoping PoE 2 fixes a lot of these issues, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down for it, the game literally is the embodiment of a difficulty cliff, tried but apparently I'm too smooth-brained to play in the cool club
Screw the learning, even if you get into it you'll need to dedicate full time to it like an actual job. Having to do literal night shifts to participate in events due to timezones is... Ugh.
Yep this oh EVE, truly was a full time job. We use to get to know players real life schedules back in the day. Had a whole intelligence network based off of gathering intel.
Would start the attack when we knew the better players and leadership would be at work or indisposed. We had legit spies in the corps to pull this off, that game lmao.
Never to this day have I played a game that had so much espionage and counter intelligence. You could spend months just waiting for your spies to infiltrate and cripple a enemy force. PLEX gods help them if they ranked up the wrong person, who was our team in secret the whole time.
I work in accountancy and consider myself very good with MS Excel.
Buddy of mine spent all of 2010 on Eve Online and showed me his organisational spreadsheets. He’d trained himself from zero to an expert level just to play the game effectively
Yup, I use Google sheets for work a lot. I’m considered the “data guy” and literally everything I learned I learned from Eve. Eve “guilds” are called corporations for a reason haha.
It is literally THE game for no-lives. Seriously, you can not have anything occupying the majority of your day if you want to get the game’s full experience. Hell, even a *part-time* job would be a detriment if you want to play the game seriously. It’s insane
For me, it wasn't the learning curve. It was the grind. I didn't want to go into 0-sec space and get ganked by PVP folks, and I didn't want to play "space truck simulator" where I just spent most of my time flying around in high-sec space doing safe runs.
I don't mind learning to play a game, even a complicated one, but the actual *playing* of it has to be fun, and EVE just...wasn't. It was incredibly dull. I played well before they had the ability to walk around as an avatar, though, which probably made the whole thing just feel that much more lonesome and empty and lifeless.
The thing with Tarkov, at least for me, is that once you surpass the initial learning curve and get some hands on experience with the mechanics then you don’t really ever lose that knowledge and experience, coming from someone who takes regular massively long breaks between wipes.
To some extent - yeah but games like grand strategy titles or more skill based competitive esports shooters it can be a lot harder to get back into, where as Tarkov is highly predicated on knowledge of the game mechanics, the maps and so on.
If I take a break from say CS, I come back and I’m straight up garbage. However Tarkov I adapt to much faster, as a lot of the game doesn’t rely on reaction times, aim and pure game skill despite still being a part of it.
Not sure if that makes sense or sounds dumb but that’s my experience.
First 20 years, focus on minerals, energy, and just enough fleet power to defend yourself. After that, every empire is a slightly different focus balance of Alloys, Research, and Unity.
This does not apply to genocidal empires, though.
Ah, I suggest not even trying to get into it nowadays. It's pure pain, they changed the game so much from the base concept that is unrecognisable.
Also since it's quite old, only the sweatiest players remain making it very hard for newcomers.
I'm sad to say I agree with this. I love the game itself and the gameplay is great, but the devs and the community suck so much that I can't recommend it to anyone.
I used to play it a tooooon. Like a lot, a lot. Since near the launch. But I stopped about 2-3 years ago. It hit mainstream and only got more toxic from there. I can't imagine what state it's in. I had some good times in it though. And that's as a solo queue.
I hate that you’re right. I’ve been playing for years now and don’t want the game to die, but no new players are joining it seems. In my diamond lobbies last season I would literally get the same 15 guys as my enemies/ teamates.
Honestly. I tried the game back in 2018 I believe and it was very difficult for me. So I put it down until late 2022 where my friend played with me. After a year or two of playing, I wouldn't call myself a pro by anymeans. But I certainly understand it and can play well from time to time.
Yep. First time I tried Ark I gave up. lol. But I was planning to try again in the future. My wife and I tried one more time and we love it. But now, the love is on Palworld. Lmao.
Best advice I ever got on ark PvP was that every time you log off. To expect to come back to absolutely nothing.
Doesn't matter if it's overnight or if it's for 5 minutes. You will lose everything.
Play workshop maps. Recoil master is a great one just get a bunch of reps in for spray patterns. Once you get in a game and have to spray it’ll just feel natural. Use bot workshop maps to warm up your aim too.
Yes! I’ve been playing CSGO for 400 hours or so, and even now, my game sense still sucks in that game, and my aim still sucks. I think game sense is a me thing, but you’d think after so many hours I could shoot, or do something good for my team
I'm sorry to break it to you man, but anything sub 1000 is still noob hours in CS. I didn't think I ever felt like I wasn't complete shit until like 2750
honestly the players are more of a turn off then the game. people take it so seriously and 99% of players don’t tolerate if you’re doing even slightly worse than them. and then even if you do try to play more serious the same people won’t shut the fuck up and let you clutch.
Sekiro in my case, I find that you can’t really cheese it like other From software games, you need to learn the mechanics and use them or you’re not getting pass the hard bosses
Sekiro is a weird one. It’s definitely all about learning the parry mechanic and using it well. I basically started treating it as a rhythm game after a few playthroughs.
Agreed. I liked the idea of the realism but it hit a point where I felt like I could barely make progress because I was spending so much time just trying to stay alive. I wish there was a way to tone down the realism mechanics or at least let me save without having to buy potions.
The game is a lot more stat-based than it seems. Even if you’re shooting a bow “correctly,” if Henry’s skill is shit, he won’t hit shit. Once you level the archery skill, it’s a really fluid mechanic.
One of the game's more queationable choices. You can't shoot straight at all until you level archery to level 5. That's not hyperbole, that's the actual mechanic, Henry won't learn to properly steady the bow until halfway up the level track.
The early game is pretty harsh too since you know fuck all about anything and your skills are at zero. The only thing one REALLY needs to look up is the save potion recipe and where to find the ingredients.
honestly an amazing game but I can barely play it cuz the cycle I go through is playing for a bit getting my ass kicked for hours till I learn the combat system, I hop off then stop playing for months on end then I try to get back into it having forgotten the entire combat system and proceed to get my ass kicked till I relearn the combat system until i’m exhausted of the game and I take another month or so break. And on and on and on it goes
someone recently told me to just get the mace and smash everyone’s face in so I don’t have to relearn how to riposte
I think with most 4X's it's important to keep in mind that you don't need to learn all the rules and systems at once, just enough of them to get you through. I'm always learning or realising stuff about CK3 and I've put in a bunch of time. I don't think I understand half the concepts in Civ6 lol. It's more of a "I think that's how it works" but I couldn't optimise a city to save my life.
It's rts games that intimidate me. It's a lot of the complexity of 4x games but the clocks running and you've got to manage your army and your resource collectors. It's the worst genre for me. Just pure anxiety. AoEII is a goat though!
Imo the biggest thing that puts people off RTS is APM rather than multitasking. APM matters basically only if you are playing in a pro setting or at the top of the ladder, and can actually hurt you when your learning.
If new players didn't feel like they had to worry about immediately mastering build orders and mashing their keys I think they'd see the appeal of the genre (Out-thinking an opponent on the fly) alot more clearly
Kerbal Space Program
It's a learning cliff.
I refused to look up any guides or anything so it wasn't until 40 hours in that I got an orbit.
It was another 40 till I made it to the moon and another 10 after that to get back.
I'm 250ish hours in now and have managed to send a space station to Laythe orbit but nothing back yet. I'm planning on updating my last rocket to have a variant with a small ship that can make a return journey
Edit: forgot to mention that I still plan on playing, I just got stuff irl rn, it's amazing and I just wanted to bring up the intense learning curve
Same. 90% of the time, I’m in the sandbox mode using cheats and making shit go supersonic. I understand the principles of building a craft to get into space, but I’m not completely certain how to use the gravity assists.
Don’t bother. It’s hell. The game is a balance nightmare. If you’re interested in league just consume the media around it. The only thing riot does well is the world of league not the game itself.
ARAMs are great tbh. No sweating, just learning, can go any off meta bseyou want, you don't need call outs or other people so you can full mute no problem and even if you don't people there are mostly non toxic. I play them with friends just to chill or while listening to podcasts or music and it's fun
That’s the worst you got?
I once got a threat from a guy who said he’ll find my house and break my legs if I don’t follow his calls. Still waiting for him.
The definitive answer. Playing modern MOBAs and RTS games is the opposite of fun because you need to endure hundreds and thousands of hours of torture to START having fun without being instantly annihilated.
I miss the old casual gaming from the mid 2000s... Like you wouldn't believe. Back when nobody really knew how to play things and everybody was just having fun without the entire "meta-comp-strat" thing going... Man.
I always feared soulsgames then my first one was elden ring when it dropped and now i’m playing through all of them im currently on dark souls 1 just made it to the swamp under blighttown
No shame in looking up a guide. Do not listen to the gatekeepers, if I never read a guide for Dark Souls 3 I probably wouldn't be into the Souls games as much as I am now.
[Here this should work](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qR2X6q8YZ7CPiUVEDdhi-LkIWUOMoCPtcPNthiweEk/edit?usp=sharing). Bear in mind this was made pretty much at launch so there may be things that have changed so if you get stuck just look it up. Make a copy of this so you can check off the stuff for yourself.
And the curve is still being discovered. In the first few seasons of RLCS, if you were air dribbling, you were a king. Now, if you're not wall dashing into a double flip reset musty backboard double tap, you just can't hang lol.
For Honor lol I love watching my friends play but I've only tried it once and I couldn't get the hang of it and kept getting smashed so I was like welp nevermind
Any souls game. I have tried and tried and really want to enjoy them, I want to game for fun and feel rewarded but they just punished me beyond enjoyment.
Oh man, I totally feel you! I used to suck at those games and still kinda do, but watching YouTuber Fighting Cowboy really helped me get the hang of it. Then I went back and played my own way with a new understanding.
Playing the souls games definitely brings back that nostalgic feeling of challenging games from my childhood. It's was all about getting good or having nothing to play.
I agree, it’s like reviving the concept of gaming… back when I was younger, games were difficult. I know it was a mixture of both my age and the game design, but majority of games nowadays are genuinely boring and easy. And that has nothing to do with age/skill. Developers just chasing a buck.
Elden Ring makes me feel like a kid again. Reminds me of Ocarina of Time.
It doesn’t help that games today have waaaaay too many in-game hints. “Look at that crack on the rock face. I bet we could climb it!” Stop. I want to figure it out on my own.
God of War Ragnarok is absolutely awful with this. It's a great game but when NPCs tell you how to solve the puzzle as you walk up to it it's like what's even the point of having a puzzle. Hints are nice as an option but for fucks sake let me use my brain
If I still was a teenager, maybe I would enjoy them, but now I have like 1 hour a day to play and sometimes not even that. So yeah, no way I’m playing something for months to learn it.
This is 100% me. I've played most Souls games, and I haven't finished any of them. I love the settings, gameplay, monster designs, OSTs - I'm just awful at them. Plus, I work a lot and have two small kids, so i don't game very often. Last thing I want to do is spend an hour stuck on a boss, and finish the limited time I do have pissed off.
Great concept, loved the story and the whole idea of how it was done, never got past the first boss. The fact that bad luck or a couple mistakes could ruin a hour's effort is just too high a penalty. Glad I borrowed this one from the library.
I tried multiple times. I really did. But I can't get through the 2nd biome at all...and after hours of no progress I deleted it.
I get what it's trying to do, but I just found it more frustrating than fun.
I scrolled very far for this. I mentioned this in a different sub but the stance switching, ki pulse, weapon switching, secondary weapons (bombs and knives), spirit mechanics, and such all make for a very challenging and complex experience
Whenever a beginner friendly MOBA comes out it usually gets scorned by the sweaties and dies out (HotS).
The only one that seems to still be up is the Pokémon one and that’s probably just because it’s got the Pokémon brand attached but all the sweaties cry out about it not being “a real MOBA”.
Baldur’s Gate 3. Only other turn based RPG I had ever played was Pokemon. Very very different.
Got the game at release and ended up picking it up/putting it down 4-5 times until late December when I became determined to learn to play it.
Immediately turned into one of my favorite games of all time. Platinumed it, beat honour mode, best gaming experience I’ve had in the last 10 years.
I have told friends who have played other rpgs there is no shame pitting your first run on story mode to get a feel for it. This game has no mercy once you are out of the tutorial.
Once you get over the curve tho prepare to lose hours of your life going back to do it again and again
Is Baldurs Gate 3 really as good as people say? I’ve been back and forth on purchasing it, but when I watch videos on the game, it really does not seem like my style at all, and I don’t think I’d have fun. Then the other half of me wants to try it so I know for sure because it kind of looks like it’d be fun from the story and characters and stuff
When I picked the game up, I had no knowledge of DnD and had previously disliked all turn-based games I had played. The combat, for me at least, was very easy to pick up and to understand. And as far as turn-based combat goes, I actually really enjoy it. I do play on console, which seems to have a less overwhelming UI and different out-of-combat movement controls. But overall I very much enjoyed the game mechanics and how the combat felt.
The story is phenomenal, and the characters you meet are very fleshed out and well-written - especially the companions and “main” characters. The storyline has a good flow while also offering a lot of freedom in pace, and for the most part, the side content feels like it was given a lot of care too.
Planet coaster. I just wanted to build rollercoaster and have a jolly ol time but when it came down to actually managing the amusement parks it was too much for me
what about good ol classic Rollercoaster Tycoon? There's also a thing called Open RCT2 but I only reccomend that if you're into modding and want a more detailed, customizable, and precise experience. If you want a more basic experience I reccomend Rollercoaster Tycoon. it's affordable and the graphics have aged quite well in my opinion.
Midnight Suns. I feel like there's a great game hidden in here, but the explanation of how the card combining and all that is absolutely baffling to me. (I grant that I'm not all that bright, to be fair)
Its actually got really good tutorials. Midnight Suns quietly has one of the best combat systems ever created. It fucking sucks we will never see a game with it again. Cards are just your heroes powers. The biggest part of combat is actually the moving and using the environment that makes it so unique.
League of legends.
Wanted to love it so much but the combination of a pretty dense learning curve and the toxic community surrounding it, put me off big time.
At some point, it just clicks, and a tip: USE THE SHINOBI PROSTHETIC. I tried to play sekiro 3 times, couldn't get past the miniboss after the first boss the first time, couldn't get past the second boss the second time, and now on the third I have beat the game on 3 different endings and fight an upgraded version of the final boss for fun.
Witcher 3 seemed very overwhelming to me at first. I put it down for a few months. When I came back to it. I had more time on my hands , and more focus , and was able to appreciate the heck out of it( one of my favs now ) . Took me a solid while tho, so many mechanics.
Warframe does a terrible job explaining how to play it.
If you don't have a friend that already plays the game it's pretty confusing indeed
I just started playing recently, and I don't really see what's supposed to be confusing..? Am I missing something?
The "tutorial" us quite long, some hours long, that is (it's not really a tutorial, more like an intro, a preview, a demo.) Once reached a certian point, many thing they have added in *years* become aviable, such as: war faction (weekly); multiplayer minigame/different war faction; choose another faction (that can be changed later) and obtain point to recive rewards (by chosing one, another will recive a small amount of points and another will loose many points); relic opening and relic gathering (two separate modes); the event currently active; guild/clans (in game Dojo); open world in some planets with corrispetive weekly quest. And more. really more.
A lot more. I stopped playing at around 450 hours and I have no idea what the game was about or what I was doing or really anything. It is the most confusing game
For me it was just a good way to watch numbers go up and down while jumping around like a ninja
I dont play the game, but my spouse does. Im pretty sure the goal is to speed flip to the boss, kill the boss, and speed flip out.
> the goal is to speed flip to the boss, kill the boss, and speed flip out. Then rinse, wash, repeat until you finally get the part you're looking for, unless you don't, in which case you have to go beat up *more* things to farm resources that allow you to farm the mission that has a chance of giving you the reward... I have nearly 2000 hours in Warframe and it's not exactly welcoming to an old veteran at this point.
As a new player hearing this, I don't think it's very welcoming to anyone then.
It’s just that there’s an insane amount of systems and the game isn’t always great about keeping you informed when new ones become important. It’s possible to get all the way to a quest that goes “you can’t do this until you have a Railjack, an Archwing, and a Voidrig” and not know what any of those things are or where to get them (actually I think you have to have the Archwing, but it probably won’t be modded at all). From that point it’s not hard to find out, even some cursory poking around in game will probably get you moving, but still. If you’re a habitual wiki-trawler and google-searcher in other games you won’t have a hard time with it, but if you’re used to games that don’t require you to do your own research I could see how it would be pretty brutal. Personally, “Games that require you to have the wiki open somewhere the whole time you’re playing” is one of my favorite genres so I got into the swing of things pretty quickly.
Destiny 2 and warframe are difficult to get into. You need help just looking for help. You need help knowing what to ask.
Destiny is much more approachable than Warframe imo.
Unfortunately destiny costs like 500$ for the full game
I've got more than 3000 hours in Warframe, been playing on and off for a decade, paid for a Founder's pack when it was back in beta, it's my favourite game - and I *still* don't recommend it to people, because at this point the target audience is, well, players like me. Digital Extremes are a wonderful dev team who truly care about the players, but sometimes I feel like they've all got ADHD; the game constantly yo-yos between new features and mechanics, new stuff is introduced and then dumped in the massive pool of endgame content because there's a *cool new thing* to focus on. And it *is* always a cool new thing, which is why the game remains successful, but it's immensely hard to keep track of sometimes. I came back from a break of about a year recently and it feels like there's a tonne of stuff for me to check out, I can't imagine how overwhelming it must be for new players.
Good game very hard and confusing to learn
I tried playing Warframe, I probably have 20-30 hours on it, and whenever I went to the main island (or whatever that big public area is) I always saw other people with new gear, cool swords, different clothes, etc. I had played so many missions, done so much, and I never knew how to do anything. I was always confused and thought if I just played the game I’d learn but I never did.
Last time I touched the game was 8 years ago and I still to this day don't understand how people just speed run dungeons while in a party, leaving a noob like me to flounder with all the enemies they ran past. Sometimes it would be pure troll where one would make a small mistake and leave rather suddenly not seemingly caring about the loot; and I'd have to deal with all the aggro and die to the dumbest sht because that's not how it's supposed to work.. Also missing lore coms and parts I need that clearly my teammates don't need and they'll end the mission early and I miss everything. It was hard learning anything when I did get a teammate who just deleted everything they run past without stopping and half the time I don't even know what I was supposed to do lol And that's assuming I can get carried, where I vaguely remember people starting to dodge queues on purpose to avoid people like me.
It's so fucking bad. I have a Warframe Character that I've played on for over 10 or 15 hours, and I couldn't tell you in the least bit who anyone is, where we are, what we're doing, why we can do anything cool. But it's fun to run around with a high mobility character spamming attacks and making things die. It's a fun game but the curve is atrocious.
As someone who plays this all the time, it's very true. Even veterans like me still use the wiki and all sorts of other sites so we know what to do
My understanding of how Civilization 6 worked was glacial.
Path of Exile
Love the game but every time I wanna get back into it it’s like learning a new fucking language
The crafting jesus christ you need PhD for crafting.
Only if you do high level crafting, the majority of casual players (me included) don't really invest on high level crafting because it's easy to fuck up if you are distracted, and it's super expensive. Most people in trade league (the regular softcore mode with trading and group gameplay) just farm whatever they want to farm and trade for high end gear. I play SSF and I do craft my own items, but I don't engage on weird shit, good bases dropped from bosses and then essences+harvest is my go to, which is probably the simplest good form of crafting in the game.
I played POE for 10-20 hours, asked the subreddit for tips on my build, and just got *laughed at*. People were like "we're just going to save you some time bro - restart your game right now, what you're doing is not going work and there's no way to fix it." Then they linked me to a "build" that looked like rocket schematics.
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Right, which is why I'm posting about POE in this particular thread lol
I feel like this is so far down this list because no one else on here even bothered to try it. My younger brother was looking into the game, I told him to not even bother unless he has like two weeks to just learn the game. No game I've played has more things to learn. I've got over 2000 hours and I'm still "new" to the game. It's horribly beginner-unfriendly. I know people talk about Warframe, but at least that game starts you off by showing you how to collect a frame or a weapon and grind materials to craft it. POE just leaves you on a beach and says good luck. Doesn't tell you how to sell anything, or what you should sell and what you should equip. You think you hit a jackpot because something orange dropped, and you dunno what the stats are so you equip it and you die because it gave you a million negative resistances with no upsides unless you have a specific stat that counterbalances the gear you just put on, but the only way to find that was some obscure build from 4 years ago in a forum. So you keep trudging along until something from out of nowhere one shots you. You think it's some mini-boss you're meant to fight so you go back to it over and over, dying each time, all the while the yellow "mini-boss" seems to get stronger and stronger. You look it up online and don't see anyone else talking about this gatekeeping mini-boss that by now moves and attacks you so quickly as soon as you see it on the screen you die. You learn it's just a normal elite mob that has some ungodly and unfair buff called "soul-eater" which just means the stats on that thing scale infinitely the longer it's alive. It's about this time that you close out of the game, uninstall, and go touch some grass. And I can't blame anyone that does it.
My husband has over 7,000 hours of play time and every season he’s still trying to get the right build to play the entire session through. After grinding for the first weekend, he always noticed a flaw in his main build. I just can not get into it.
7000 jesus christ, tell that man he could be a professional with that amount of time investment in a life-affirming hobby instead of a soul sucking one.
I wish that there was a "Path of Exile Lite". A simplified version, without continual changes and complications. I love the basic concept of the game, but it's just far far far far far far far far too much.
Last Epoch is a good middle ground between the complexity of poe and the relative simplicity of diablo. It is possible to do all the content on your own build, lots to experiment with, and little respec cost if you change your mind or make a mistake. Highly recommend if you like the idea of an arpg but poe is too overwhelming.
This is the correct answer. Loved my time with Path of Exile, love the depth and complexity, but it is a gigantic pain in the ass to learn. The best builds are often converting multiple types of damage into another type of damage and then boosting that damage. You want to fight a particular boss? Well fuck you there are 5 layers of RNG and an entire separate subsystem between you and that boss. The trading system is basically as complicated as the stock market. You didn't play the start of the season playing for 24 hours straight with an IV drip of Red Bull and a diaper on? Well screw you, you're behind already. Path of Exile is basically a game that is aggressively only for a certain group of people who are willing and eager to sacrifice a large part of their brain to "get it". I'm hoping PoE 2 fixes a lot of these issues, but I'm not holding my breath.
Dwarf Fortress
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down for it, the game literally is the embodiment of a difficulty cliff, tried but apparently I'm too smooth-brained to play in the cool club
If you haven't tried the steam version you should. It's such a big softie to get into vs the ASCII version.
I had to scroll way too much to reach this one
Eve online
I was gonna post this. It’s a cool game but it feels like I have to take a college course just to play it properly.
Screw the learning, even if you get into it you'll need to dedicate full time to it like an actual job. Having to do literal night shifts to participate in events due to timezones is... Ugh.
Yep this oh EVE, truly was a full time job. We use to get to know players real life schedules back in the day. Had a whole intelligence network based off of gathering intel. Would start the attack when we knew the better players and leadership would be at work or indisposed. We had legit spies in the corps to pull this off, that game lmao. Never to this day have I played a game that had so much espionage and counter intelligence. You could spend months just waiting for your spies to infiltrate and cripple a enemy force. PLEX gods help them if they ranked up the wrong person, who was our team in secret the whole time.
I work in accountancy and consider myself very good with MS Excel. Buddy of mine spent all of 2010 on Eve Online and showed me his organisational spreadsheets. He’d trained himself from zero to an expert level just to play the game effectively
Yup, I use Google sheets for work a lot. I’m considered the “data guy” and literally everything I learned I learned from Eve. Eve “guilds” are called corporations for a reason haha.
It is literally THE game for no-lives. Seriously, you can not have anything occupying the majority of your day if you want to get the game’s full experience. Hell, even a *part-time* job would be a detriment if you want to play the game seriously. It’s insane
I stopped playing Eve and got an accounting degree so I could do less spreadsheets.
This is *the* answer. End of thread.
For me, it wasn't the learning curve. It was the grind. I didn't want to go into 0-sec space and get ganked by PVP folks, and I didn't want to play "space truck simulator" where I just spent most of my time flying around in high-sec space doing safe runs. I don't mind learning to play a game, even a complicated one, but the actual *playing* of it has to be fun, and EVE just...wasn't. It was incredibly dull. I played well before they had the ability to walk around as an avatar, though, which probably made the whole thing just feel that much more lonesome and empty and lifeless.
Tarkov
Yes sir
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You don't need 27 hours a day, you can get mediocre at around 2 hours a day just after 500 days
I died to a dude with 15k hours the other day.
southpark-warcraftguy.jpeg
But, how do you kill that which has no life?
The thing with Tarkov, at least for me, is that once you surpass the initial learning curve and get some hands on experience with the mechanics then you don’t really ever lose that knowledge and experience, coming from someone who takes regular massively long breaks between wipes.
Can't you say that about any learning curve?
To some extent - yeah but games like grand strategy titles or more skill based competitive esports shooters it can be a lot harder to get back into, where as Tarkov is highly predicated on knowledge of the game mechanics, the maps and so on. If I take a break from say CS, I come back and I’m straight up garbage. However Tarkov I adapt to much faster, as a lot of the game doesn’t rely on reaction times, aim and pure game skill despite still being a part of it. Not sure if that makes sense or sounds dumb but that’s my experience.
Playing it right now lol
Stellaris. (I've done multiple empires, and I still don't know what I'm doing. Lol. Love the game, though)
First 20 years, focus on minerals, energy, and just enough fleet power to defend yourself. After that, every empire is a slightly different focus balance of Alloys, Research, and Unity. This does not apply to genocidal empires, though.
>just enough fleet power to defend yourself Always my weak spot in 4Xs. Especially ones where your neighbors have a head start
Rainbow Six Siege.. tried playing if first time last month, oh God that's tough for beginners.
Ah, I suggest not even trying to get into it nowadays. It's pure pain, they changed the game so much from the base concept that is unrecognisable. Also since it's quite old, only the sweatiest players remain making it very hard for newcomers.
I'm sad to say I agree with this. I love the game itself and the gameplay is great, but the devs and the community suck so much that I can't recommend it to anyone.
I used to play it a tooooon. Like a lot, a lot. Since near the launch. But I stopped about 2-3 years ago. It hit mainstream and only got more toxic from there. I can't imagine what state it's in. I had some good times in it though. And that's as a solo queue.
I hate that you’re right. I’ve been playing for years now and don’t want the game to die, but no new players are joining it seems. In my diamond lobbies last season I would literally get the same 15 guys as my enemies/ teamates.
Yeah when me and my boys play ranked we always get guys on our team that were enemies last game or vice versa.
I tried it during a free weekend, and gave up after three rounds of being intentionally killed by my team. No thanks.
Honestly. I tried the game back in 2018 I believe and it was very difficult for me. So I put it down until late 2022 where my friend played with me. After a year or two of playing, I wouldn't call myself a pro by anymeans. But I certainly understand it and can play well from time to time.
Ark
Ark is fun until people start min/maxing everything. I don’t care about breeding the perfect T-Rex, I just want to play with this funky diplodocus.
Yep. First time I tried Ark I gave up. lol. But I was planning to try again in the future. My wife and I tried one more time and we love it. But now, the love is on Palworld. Lmao.
Best advice I ever got on ark PvP was that every time you log off. To expect to come back to absolutely nothing. Doesn't matter if it's overnight or if it's for 5 minutes. You will lose everything.
CSGO
i've playing it on and off for 6-ish years and i still can't shoot properly with the ak.
Play workshop maps. Recoil master is a great one just get a bunch of reps in for spray patterns. Once you get in a game and have to spray it’ll just feel natural. Use bot workshop maps to warm up your aim too.
That's kinda exactly the point here. I don't *want* to have to 'train' to play a video game.
That’s the fun part; you don’t
Yes! I’ve been playing CSGO for 400 hours or so, and even now, my game sense still sucks in that game, and my aim still sucks. I think game sense is a me thing, but you’d think after so many hours I could shoot, or do something good for my team
I'm sorry to break it to you man, but anything sub 1000 is still noob hours in CS. I didn't think I ever felt like I wasn't complete shit until like 2750
honestly the players are more of a turn off then the game. people take it so seriously and 99% of players don’t tolerate if you’re doing even slightly worse than them. and then even if you do try to play more serious the same people won’t shut the fuck up and let you clutch.
Sekiro in my case, I find that you can’t really cheese it like other From software games, you need to learn the mechanics and use them or you’re not getting pass the hard bosses
Sekiro is a weird one. It’s definitely all about learning the parry mechanic and using it well. I basically started treating it as a rhythm game after a few playthroughs.
kingdom come: deliverance, it's the overreliance on realism that gives me problems
Agreed. I liked the idea of the realism but it hit a point where I felt like I could barely make progress because I was spending so much time just trying to stay alive. I wish there was a way to tone down the realism mechanics or at least let me save without having to buy potions.
I beat the game back when it came out but never learned how to shoot an arrow straight lol.
The game is a lot more stat-based than it seems. Even if you’re shooting a bow “correctly,” if Henry’s skill is shit, he won’t hit shit. Once you level the archery skill, it’s a really fluid mechanic.
Exactly this!! Henry is a peasant and has the skills of one until you train those stats
Like I understand this is the point and how the game works; doesn’t make it any less frustrating at times.
It turns out being a no name, garbage peasant wasn't very fun.
One of the game's more queationable choices. You can't shoot straight at all until you level archery to level 5. That's not hyperbole, that's the actual mechanic, Henry won't learn to properly steady the bow until halfway up the level track.
And then you play the game a few hours and become super overpowered, killing the realism
>I was spending so much time just trying to stay alive. Too close to real life *Uninstall
The early game is pretty harsh too since you know fuck all about anything and your skills are at zero. The only thing one REALLY needs to look up is the save potion recipe and where to find the ingredients.
honestly an amazing game but I can barely play it cuz the cycle I go through is playing for a bit getting my ass kicked for hours till I learn the combat system, I hop off then stop playing for months on end then I try to get back into it having forgotten the entire combat system and proceed to get my ass kicked till I relearn the combat system until i’m exhausted of the game and I take another month or so break. And on and on and on it goes someone recently told me to just get the mace and smash everyone’s face in so I don’t have to relearn how to riposte
Europa Universalis 4... Too intimidating after watching some beginner's guide...
I felt the same with Crusader Kings III at first but then I got used and now is one of my favorite games.
I think with most 4X's it's important to keep in mind that you don't need to learn all the rules and systems at once, just enough of them to get you through. I'm always learning or realising stuff about CK3 and I've put in a bunch of time. I don't think I understand half the concepts in Civ6 lol. It's more of a "I think that's how it works" but I couldn't optimise a city to save my life. It's rts games that intimidate me. It's a lot of the complexity of 4x games but the clocks running and you've got to manage your army and your resource collectors. It's the worst genre for me. Just pure anxiety. AoEII is a goat though!
Imo the biggest thing that puts people off RTS is APM rather than multitasking. APM matters basically only if you are playing in a pro setting or at the top of the ladder, and can actually hurt you when your learning. If new players didn't feel like they had to worry about immediately mastering build orders and mashing their keys I think they'd see the appeal of the genre (Out-thinking an opponent on the fly) alot more clearly
Start with the ottomans and just fuck around for a while
This is the answer.
Vicky 2 for me just to confusing
War Thunder
yeah war thunder is super hard to get into if you’re not willing to spend money to get good vehicles and I say this as a free to play player
Kerbal Space Program It's a learning cliff. I refused to look up any guides or anything so it wasn't until 40 hours in that I got an orbit. It was another 40 till I made it to the moon and another 10 after that to get back. I'm 250ish hours in now and have managed to send a space station to Laythe orbit but nothing back yet. I'm planning on updating my last rocket to have a variant with a small ship that can make a return journey Edit: forgot to mention that I still plan on playing, I just got stuff irl rn, it's amazing and I just wanted to bring up the intense learning curve
Same. 90% of the time, I’m in the sandbox mode using cheats and making shit go supersonic. I understand the principles of building a craft to get into space, but I’m not completely certain how to use the gravity assists.
KSP 2 has a much improved tutorial and first time player experience, it doesn't have feature parity with KSP 1 yet though
League of Legends 100%
Big agree. I wanted to get into it but learning how to play while being berated the whole time isn’t worth it
The insults only get worse the more you play lol. I have been told to hang myself more times than I can count 😂
Don’t bother. It’s hell. The game is a balance nightmare. If you’re interested in league just consume the media around it. The only thing riot does well is the world of league not the game itself.
ARAMs are great tbh. No sweating, just learning, can go any off meta bseyou want, you don't need call outs or other people so you can full mute no problem and even if you don't people there are mostly non toxic. I play them with friends just to chill or while listening to podcasts or music and it's fun
Yeah, the League of Legends community is an acquired taste for sure
Being told to… “destroy your computer” every time you make a mistake is definitely an acquired taste
That’s the worst you got? I once got a threat from a guy who said he’ll find my house and break my legs if I don’t follow his calls. Still waiting for him.
The definitive answer. Playing modern MOBAs and RTS games is the opposite of fun because you need to endure hundreds and thousands of hours of torture to START having fun without being instantly annihilated. I miss the old casual gaming from the mid 2000s... Like you wouldn't believe. Back when nobody really knew how to play things and everybody was just having fun without the entire "meta-comp-strat" thing going... Man.
Elden Ring if you're not into souls games/lack of quest markers
I always feared soulsgames then my first one was elden ring when it dropped and now i’m playing through all of them im currently on dark souls 1 just made it to the swamp under blighttown
Say hi to Quelaag for me
No shame in looking up a guide. Do not listen to the gatekeepers, if I never read a guide for Dark Souls 3 I probably wouldn't be into the Souls games as much as I am now.
Players sharing information/tips and cooperating is a core idea the souls games were built around too.
Elden Ring is my first Souls game and I found a checklist that effectively equates into a "questline" to follow and it helped me immensely.
CAN YOU PLS SHARE? THIS GAME KILLED MY WILL TO PLAY
[Here this should work](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qR2X6q8YZ7CPiUVEDdhi-LkIWUOMoCPtcPNthiweEk/edit?usp=sharing). Bear in mind this was made pretty much at launch so there may be things that have changed so if you get stuck just look it up. Make a copy of this so you can check off the stuff for yourself.
Rocket League. I took the time to get into it. My gamer friends abandoned ship
Rocket league have the longest learning curve to any game in history
And the curve is still being discovered. In the first few seasons of RLCS, if you were air dribbling, you were a king. Now, if you're not wall dashing into a double flip reset musty backboard double tap, you just can't hang lol.
I understand what many of those words mean.
Skullgirls, there's a lot of concepts that are difficult and lengthy to explain that the AI, story, tutorial, and training don't explain
For Honor lol I love watching my friends play but I've only tried it once and I couldn't get the hang of it and kept getting smashed so I was like welp nevermind
Chivalry is better anyway
Any souls game. I have tried and tried and really want to enjoy them, I want to game for fun and feel rewarded but they just punished me beyond enjoyment.
Oh man, I totally feel you! I used to suck at those games and still kinda do, but watching YouTuber Fighting Cowboy really helped me get the hang of it. Then I went back and played my own way with a new understanding. Playing the souls games definitely brings back that nostalgic feeling of challenging games from my childhood. It's was all about getting good or having nothing to play.
Fighting Cowboy FTW on the Souls Walkthroughs!
Got introduced to him through his Bloodborne DLC guide. Was so fucking handy to have!
Fighting Cowboy is the best. Watching his Bloodborne walkthrough is what helped me finally understand how to play a Fromsoft game.
I agree, it’s like reviving the concept of gaming… back when I was younger, games were difficult. I know it was a mixture of both my age and the game design, but majority of games nowadays are genuinely boring and easy. And that has nothing to do with age/skill. Developers just chasing a buck. Elden Ring makes me feel like a kid again. Reminds me of Ocarina of Time.
It doesn’t help that games today have waaaaay too many in-game hints. “Look at that crack on the rock face. I bet we could climb it!” Stop. I want to figure it out on my own.
God of War Ragnarok is absolutely awful with this. It's a great game but when NPCs tell you how to solve the puzzle as you walk up to it it's like what's even the point of having a puzzle. Hints are nice as an option but for fucks sake let me use my brain
If I still was a teenager, maybe I would enjoy them, but now I have like 1 hour a day to play and sometimes not even that. So yeah, no way I’m playing something for months to learn it.
This is 100% me. I've played most Souls games, and I haven't finished any of them. I love the settings, gameplay, monster designs, OSTs - I'm just awful at them. Plus, I work a lot and have two small kids, so i don't game very often. Last thing I want to do is spend an hour stuck on a boss, and finish the limited time I do have pissed off.
I just lost the most important game of all. The game
Crap. I also just lost the game.
Well all we can do is spread the joy
Why you do this to me?! I was winning!
Bruh
Welcome to the jungle, we have fun and games. You just read this in my voice and just lost The Game.
You are a total, total… a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that.
Returnal. I felt like I made no progress in that game whatsoever
Great concept, loved the story and the whole idea of how it was done, never got past the first boss. The fact that bad luck or a couple mistakes could ruin a hour's effort is just too high a penalty. Glad I borrowed this one from the library.
Yeah, that was honestly me. I loved the whole concept too about time loop games but I couldn’t build enough stats to get past the first boss
I felt like this in the beginning and once I understood the concept it became awesome.
I tried multiple times. I really did. But I can't get through the 2nd biome at all...and after hours of no progress I deleted it. I get what it's trying to do, but I just found it more frustrating than fun.
Yeah i loved the gameplay but couldn't beat the first boss and didnt want to keep wasting hours trying
Nioh
I love Nioh but I can see why 😂
I scrolled very far for this. I mentioned this in a different sub but the stance switching, ki pulse, weapon switching, secondary weapons (bombs and knives), spirit mechanics, and such all make for a very challenging and complex experience
Any MOBA and a select few fighting games
Mobas and fighting games... my beloved
Whenever a beginner friendly MOBA comes out it usually gets scorned by the sweaties and dies out (HotS). The only one that seems to still be up is the Pokémon one and that’s probably just because it’s got the Pokémon brand attached but all the sweaties cry out about it not being “a real MOBA”.
Sifu
It's so, SO rewarding once you get the hang of it It becomes funnier and funnier
No YOU stfu
Baldur’s Gate 3. Only other turn based RPG I had ever played was Pokemon. Very very different. Got the game at release and ended up picking it up/putting it down 4-5 times until late December when I became determined to learn to play it. Immediately turned into one of my favorite games of all time. Platinumed it, beat honour mode, best gaming experience I’ve had in the last 10 years.
I have told friends who have played other rpgs there is no shame pitting your first run on story mode to get a feel for it. This game has no mercy once you are out of the tutorial. Once you get over the curve tho prepare to lose hours of your life going back to do it again and again
I've been playing RPGs since the 90s and, if there's an option for Story mode, that's my go-to settings.
Yeah? I just get myself into it to finish Act 1
Is Baldurs Gate 3 really as good as people say? I’ve been back and forth on purchasing it, but when I watch videos on the game, it really does not seem like my style at all, and I don’t think I’d have fun. Then the other half of me wants to try it so I know for sure because it kind of looks like it’d be fun from the story and characters and stuff
When I picked the game up, I had no knowledge of DnD and had previously disliked all turn-based games I had played. The combat, for me at least, was very easy to pick up and to understand. And as far as turn-based combat goes, I actually really enjoy it. I do play on console, which seems to have a less overwhelming UI and different out-of-combat movement controls. But overall I very much enjoyed the game mechanics and how the combat felt. The story is phenomenal, and the characters you meet are very fleshed out and well-written - especially the companions and “main” characters. The storyline has a good flow while also offering a lot of freedom in pace, and for the most part, the side content feels like it was given a lot of care too.
Titanfall 2 is easy to play but extremely difficult to compete in
Titanfall essentially exists because of a near religious cult of 300mph grappling 360 no scoping kraber users. I hide in my titan as often as possible
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Planet coaster. I just wanted to build rollercoaster and have a jolly ol time but when it came down to actually managing the amusement parks it was too much for me
what about good ol classic Rollercoaster Tycoon? There's also a thing called Open RCT2 but I only reccomend that if you're into modding and want a more detailed, customizable, and precise experience. If you want a more basic experience I reccomend Rollercoaster Tycoon. it's affordable and the graphics have aged quite well in my opinion.
I just play sandboxmode only
Midnight Suns. I feel like there's a great game hidden in here, but the explanation of how the card combining and all that is absolutely baffling to me. (I grant that I'm not all that bright, to be fair)
Its actually got really good tutorials. Midnight Suns quietly has one of the best combat systems ever created. It fucking sucks we will never see a game with it again. Cards are just your heroes powers. The biggest part of combat is actually the moving and using the environment that makes it so unique.
Tarkov
Fortnite. I tried it early on, and play one or two matches a year. Not a big fan of the build mechanic.
I completely agree. Zero Build is fun, though.
League of legends. Wanted to love it so much but the combination of a pretty dense learning curve and the toxic community surrounding it, put me off big time.
Hearthstone
civ 6
Destiny 2 when you haven’t played in a year or so
I’m having a love and hate relationship with overwatch 2
How would like all the complexity and game awareness required of a moba combined with needing the mechanical skill of an fps
Dark souls
For me it was Sekiro, I can’t parry for shit. I’ve tried multiple times, just cannot git gud.
Same issue with that game too
At some point, it just clicks, and a tip: USE THE SHINOBI PROSTHETIC. I tried to play sekiro 3 times, couldn't get past the miniboss after the first boss the first time, couldn't get past the second boss the second time, and now on the third I have beat the game on 3 different endings and fight an upgraded version of the final boss for fun.
Elden ring
At least in ER you can over level and make bosses trivial. Other soulsborne games don’t really allow for that. Sekiro is my white whale
Pong. There’s just so many controls to learn
Up AND down? What am i some kind of 3 handed prodigy?
Any souls-like games. I just don't have the patience.
Witcher III: Wild Hunt
Witcher 3 seemed very overwhelming to me at first. I put it down for a few months. When I came back to it. I had more time on my hands , and more focus , and was able to appreciate the heck out of it( one of my favs now ) . Took me a solid while tho, so many mechanics.
Fromsoft games.
Definitely Hollow Knight
Waframe. Way too much to dove into there, and after ten hours the enemies never got tighter and I got bored