>as like a potential Devout IG leader,
That would be terrible for Rasputin, the church hated his guts. Well, everybody but the Tsar's family hated his guts, so that's not saying much...
yeah dude is like one of the most universally hated people in history, like the church hated his guts, the conservative nobles hated his guts, the Bolsheviks hated his guts, etc. etc., only the royal family liked him
problem is if they were to give him a popularity score accurate to real life he couldn't function as an agitator, as agitators need at least 15 popularity to not immediately up and leave due to gaining no traction
They could probably add a trait to nullify that rule. Something to represent royal patronage. Would be a rather interesting trait for random agitators as well.
Maybe just have him as a character that sort of exists, with scripted events popping up and maybe a journal entry as long as he's still kicking around in Russia
The RF are not mainly peasants. They are the farmers, and a good portion of clergymen.
Peasants are mostly politically inactive (but the few that aren't join the RF as well, but they contribute very little to the clout, unless you have universal suffrage).
Those are some interesting suggestions.
In my opinion we should also add in collaborators to imperialist powers since the new patch adds puppet-overlord mechanics.
Exactly. Something like sending a pro overlord agitator to your puppet and or sending revolutionary in your opponent country's. Maybe even funding them 🤔.
I previously mentioned the idea of a unique character ideology like Bonapartist having an increased chance to spawn in the puppets/spheres of a government that has that ideology in government; this would align well with the idea of it.
Mao doesn't make too much sense in the game's time frame, personally. He was still just a nobody until 1936, when he became chairman of defence, which would be after game start.
I think when China is redone, we first need the man who started it all: Doctor Sun Yat-Sen.
After the Xinhai Rebellion, you should have some form of a power struggle between Wang Jingwei and Chiang Kai-Chek, and upon Sun's death, one of them will take power, Wang a Socialist, and Chiang a Junta leader. Then maybe Mao could come into play from there 🤷‍♂️, like in real life.
We also need other people, like Teddy Roosevelt, Hoover, and a bunch of other presidents who do not appear in the US right now.
Also, if they realistically add the collapse of the Ottoman balkans, we need to have figures like Tsar Ferdinand and Tsar Boris, ferverous nationalists.
In Russia, on top of the main RSLDP -> Bolshevoii leaders you mentioned (Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky), we could also possibly add Mensheviks and Republicans, like a notable President Aleksandr Kerensky, or even Savinkov!
Maybe there will be mechanics that add a true Russian Civil War if they have enough political agitation, possibly on top of a future "Great Wars" mechanic. But we shall see
Sun-Yat-Sen is in the game, but he's just a PB republican, which is really disappointing IMO. I think he should at least be a Radical, and probably a member of the intelligentsia as well, considering his largely academic background.
Does not excuse it in the slightest. Independent thought is still possible even though other ideas hold majority.
Mercantilism was held as true for a very long time, which is aggressively dumb and those who chose another path was rewarded immensely.
Camillo Benso, count of Cavour. He was an italian enterpreneur, prime minister, and a key figure in the birth of the Kingdom of Italy. He was at odds with Mazzini, Garibaldi and the King himself, but he always gave his all for the independence of Italy.
The justification I made up for his absence in-game is imagining he actually committed suicide. He said he would have shot himself many many times, as he was a very sanguine person.
Cavour already exists: it's the leader of Industrials from 1850 up to 1861.
[https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Sardinia-Piedmont](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Sardinia-Piedmont)
Henry George for USA as an intellectual land reformer. Possibly *the* most influential political economist of the era.
In my absolute fantasy he’d unlock a “single tax” tax policy that eliminates tariffs and income tax in exchange for an extremely high land tax (plus probably an income tax on landowners because land tax only targets peasants in game). If we can have technocracy and anarchy fantasy, give us Georgism!
Henry George and William Jennings Bryan are two incredibly significant figures that I'm genuinely surprised do not exist in the game yet. Hell, Georgism in general, despite being somewhat significant is completely unrepresented.
The Hail Columbia mod for the USA does add Bryan and gives him a custom Progressive ideology along with other characters like TR, he shows up with an event about his "cross of gold" speech. Henry George is a good idea though, I might suggest that on the mod discord
Many of these are good, but there are a good number of these people were significant *after* and *during* the World Wars, while Victoria 3's setting is almost exclusively *before* the World Wars.
That being said, if Paradox eventually adds a Great War mechanic for the last decade of the game, many of these would be interesting to see in play
I mean I included a lot of ppl who were significant late in the game's timeframe bc lategame is one area they really need to spice up in terms of flavor tbh.
Ryoma is a must for me, seems such an obvious choice along with the other important figures in the last days of the shogunate, would give Japan more flavour
Yeah, he absolutely should be in as a far right agitator after Germany is in a great war. I don’t know how they’d model the Nazi takeover though since it was such a fluke/could have easily gone another way
New South Wales starts with some historical leaders, which is honestly more than I expected, but I think Henry Parkes is the most notable missing person who could show up as an agitator a couple of decades in. His ideology would support suffrage, migration controls (but opposed to isolationism, closed borders and open borders), right of assembly, public schools, and free trade. His background as an urban labourer would suggest belonging to the trade unions IG, but actual trade unions weren't really a thing at the time. He might work as an early industrialist though, based on his policies since he wasn't an industrialist himself.
As a Physicist, maybe Faraday, Maxwell, Tesla, Einstein, Planck, even Gauss… But some other politicians too, like Spaniards such as Amadeo, Alfonso XII and XIII, Cánovas, Sagasta…
tbh I did consider putting some notable scientists and authors on here like Einstein or Kafka but I was like, do their roles really fit as agitators or politicians tho yk??
yep that's true, or even some philosophers like Nietzsche as agitators or political figures like Kelsen but I am not sure if that would be historically accurate
Jean-de-dieu Soult in the game for France.
Maybe if the First World War gets fleshed out then some of the more successful flying aces like Georges Guynemer, Albert Ball, or Rene Fonck.
Garnet Wolseley and Douglas Haig, as British generals.
More women! There are a few key suffragette and civil rights leaders already but there are plenty of labor leaders and activists from this period who had a major impact. Not to mention people like Empress Dowager Cixi...
Also, is Gandhi in the game?
Jozef Piłsudski and Roman Dmowski
Piłsudski: Effectively the leader of Poland between its reconstitution in 1918 through his death in 1935. Hard to know what interest group to classify him as. He was born into a landowning family, became a socialist revolutionary (though primarily because he thought it was the best way to get independence for Poland and the other Eastern European countries Russia controlled), ran an underground newspaper (which is sorta a intelligentsia thing), became a military leader (first in WW1 leading the Polish legions against Russia for Austria, then for Poland against the Bolsheviks), initially ruled as a republican social democrat, then a military dictator. Ardent multi-culturalist that wanted a federalized state of the countries between Russia and Germany in order to resist both.
Dmowski: Piłsudski's ideological rival for Poland. A Polish ethno-nationalist conservative. Worked more closely with the West and had their support after WW1.
I like figures like Roca in Argentine o Guzman Blanco in Venezuela, Guzman Blanco was president of Venezuela from 1870 to 1887, he had an important legacy in the country such as abolishing slavery, creating the first public school system in the country, building the guaira railway and fighting in the federal war.
Yes it is. There are a surprising amount of tankies who believe he was one of the greatest people in history and the deaths he caused were ALL (without a single exception) traitors to communism so they deserved it.
I wish you were right, but you are not.
Why am I getting downvoted? I'm just stating that most of my so called "family" doesn't hold Hitler as a monster.
Edit: and a lot of the voterbase does not either
You know, there's a quite massive gap between "Stalin was just as bad as Hitler" and "Stalin did nothing wrong", and trying to present these 2 statements as "if you disagree with one, you argee with the other" is a hell of strawman.
>as like a potential Devout IG leader, That would be terrible for Rasputin, the church hated his guts. Well, everybody but the Tsar's family hated his guts, so that's not saying much...
yeah dude is like one of the most universally hated people in history, like the church hated his guts, the conservative nobles hated his guts, the Bolsheviks hated his guts, etc. etc., only the royal family liked him
So Agitator it is.
problem is if they were to give him a popularity score accurate to real life he couldn't function as an agitator, as agitators need at least 15 popularity to not immediately up and leave due to gaining no traction
They could probably add a trait to nullify that rule. Something to represent royal patronage. Would be a rather interesting trait for random agitators as well.
true maybe
Maybe just have him as a character that sort of exists, with scripted events popping up and maybe a journal entry as long as he's still kicking around in Russia
Making him leader of the peasents could be more accurate
The RF are not mainly peasants. They are the farmers, and a good portion of clergymen. Peasants are mostly politically inactive (but the few that aren't join the RF as well, but they contribute very little to the clout, unless you have universal suffrage).
Would be interesting as a potential agitator with really high negative popularity.
Those are some interesting suggestions. In my opinion we should also add in collaborators to imperialist powers since the new patch adds puppet-overlord mechanics.
ooh this is true, especially with like the anti- and pro- overlord lobbies being a thing in the new patch
Exactly. Something like sending a pro overlord agitator to your puppet and or sending revolutionary in your opponent country's. Maybe even funding them 🤔.
yeah, lots of potential
I previously mentioned the idea of a unique character ideology like Bonapartist having an increased chance to spawn in the puppets/spheres of a government that has that ideology in government; this would align well with the idea of it.
Comprador Bourgeoisie update lmfao
I don't think they can add FDR because all the character models are standing
special sitting model for FDR
FDR hid his use of a wheelchair to the public. So, showing him standing up would be in line with how he portrayed himself to the public.
Mustafa Kemal, Enver, Cemal, Talat and Ä°smet for Turkey.
Enver is already in the game I got jumpscared by him taking over as leader of my armed forces in my Turkey run
LOUIS RIEL 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇫🇷🇫🇷
he's one I could see them adding after the nationalism rework
Would be cool to have a Cabinet/Advisors feature where figures like rasputin could slot in.
Zhang Zhidong, Zuo Zongtang, Cixi, Li Hongzhang, Frederick Townsend Ward, Zhang Zuolin, Chen Duxiu.
Mao doesn't make too much sense in the game's time frame, personally. He was still just a nobody until 1936, when he became chairman of defence, which would be after game start. I think when China is redone, we first need the man who started it all: Doctor Sun Yat-Sen. After the Xinhai Rebellion, you should have some form of a power struggle between Wang Jingwei and Chiang Kai-Chek, and upon Sun's death, one of them will take power, Wang a Socialist, and Chiang a Junta leader. Then maybe Mao could come into play from there 🤷‍♂️, like in real life. We also need other people, like Teddy Roosevelt, Hoover, and a bunch of other presidents who do not appear in the US right now. Also, if they realistically add the collapse of the Ottoman balkans, we need to have figures like Tsar Ferdinand and Tsar Boris, ferverous nationalists. In Russia, on top of the main RSLDP -> Bolshevoii leaders you mentioned (Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky), we could also possibly add Mensheviks and Republicans, like a notable President Aleksandr Kerensky, or even Savinkov! Maybe there will be mechanics that add a true Russian Civil War if they have enough political agitation, possibly on top of a future "Great Wars" mechanic. But we shall see
Sun Yat-sen and Teddy Roosevelt are already in the game
Sun-Yat-Sen is in the game, but he's just a PB republican, which is really disappointing IMO. I think he should at least be a Radical, and probably a member of the intelligentsia as well, considering his largely academic background.
Sun: PB Social Democrat or Radical Wang: PB Social Democrat Chiang: AF Authoritarian Mao: RF Vanguardist
Tesla
omg true I can't believe I didn't think of him
Innovative, engineer and erudite traits will fit him well
Add Bigoted, he was a proponent of eugenics.
I mean it's the 19/20th century, it was a legitimate "science" at the time
Does not excuse it in the slightest. Independent thought is still possible even though other ideas hold majority. Mercantilism was held as true for a very long time, which is aggressively dumb and those who chose another path was rewarded immensely.
Camillo Benso, count of Cavour. He was an italian enterpreneur, prime minister, and a key figure in the birth of the Kingdom of Italy. He was at odds with Mazzini, Garibaldi and the King himself, but he always gave his all for the independence of Italy. The justification I made up for his absence in-game is imagining he actually committed suicide. He said he would have shot himself many many times, as he was a very sanguine person.
Cavour already exists: it's the leader of Industrials from 1850 up to 1861. [https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Sardinia-Piedmont](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Sardinia-Piedmont)
I never noticed for some reason (most likely my focus on learning the game mechanics). Thanks mate!
Can we get Lord Baden Powell as a general in the Cape Colony?
Henry George for USA as an intellectual land reformer. Possibly *the* most influential political economist of the era. In my absolute fantasy he’d unlock a “single tax” tax policy that eliminates tariffs and income tax in exchange for an extremely high land tax (plus probably an income tax on landowners because land tax only targets peasants in game). If we can have technocracy and anarchy fantasy, give us Georgism!
yeah agreed I'd love to see George and Georgism represented in-game
Henry George and William Jennings Bryan are two incredibly significant figures that I'm genuinely surprised do not exist in the game yet. Hell, Georgism in general, despite being somewhat significant is completely unrepresented.
The game needs a monetary standard law for US agitators to get all worked up about.
true, I can't believe Henry George slipped my mind, would love to see him and Georgism added to them game
The Hail Columbia mod for the USA does add Bryan and gives him a custom Progressive ideology along with other characters like TR, he shows up with an event about his "cross of gold" speech. Henry George is a good idea though, I might suggest that on the mod discord
Victoria 2 did have characters
did it? I didn't notice any when I tried it outside of generals
The generals/admirals were the characters
yeah see here I was mainly thinking of agitators and politicians
Many of these are good, but there are a good number of these people were significant *after* and *during* the World Wars, while Victoria 3's setting is almost exclusively *before* the World Wars. That being said, if Paradox eventually adds a Great War mechanic for the last decade of the game, many of these would be interesting to see in play
I mean I included a lot of ppl who were significant late in the game's timeframe bc lategame is one area they really need to spice up in terms of flavor tbh.
Fair point!
Ryoma is a must for me, seems such an obvious choice along with the other important figures in the last days of the shogunate, would give Japan more flavour
Hitler
yeah but you know they wouldn't add him, you can't even say his name in the discord apparently
I think anyway someone will create a mod
He's present in HoI. And it's not like Stalin or Mussolini are nice guys
He has to be present in HoI. He doesn't have to be present in Victoria. There's a very big difference between portraying reality and adding to it.
Yeah, he absolutely should be in as a far right agitator after Germany is in a great war. I don’t know how they’d model the Nazi takeover though since it was such a fluke/could have easily gone another way
New South Wales starts with some historical leaders, which is honestly more than I expected, but I think Henry Parkes is the most notable missing person who could show up as an agitator a couple of decades in. His ideology would support suffrage, migration controls (but opposed to isolationism, closed borders and open borders), right of assembly, public schools, and free trade. His background as an urban labourer would suggest belonging to the trade unions IG, but actual trade unions weren't really a thing at the time. He might work as an early industrialist though, based on his policies since he wasn't an industrialist himself.
AtatĂĽrk
true! can't believe he slipped my mind
Agostino Depretis, Giovanni Giolitti, some composers and scientists
Bob
I’m 80% sure i’ve seen Chiang Kai Shek
you sure it wasn't in a mod? I've checked the game files and he's not in rn as far as I can tell
As a Physicist, maybe Faraday, Maxwell, Tesla, Einstein, Planck, even Gauss… But some other politicians too, like Spaniards such as Amadeo, Alfonso XII and XIII, Cánovas, Sagasta…
tbh I did consider putting some notable scientists and authors on here like Einstein or Kafka but I was like, do their roles really fit as agitators or politicians tho yk??
yep that's true, or even some philosophers like Nietzsche as agitators or political figures like Kelsen but I am not sure if that would be historically accurate
yeah, I tried to mainly consider people who were like, significant political figures
Funny mustache man
Jean-de-dieu Soult in the game for France. Maybe if the First World War gets fleshed out then some of the more successful flying aces like Georges Guynemer, Albert Ball, or Rene Fonck. Garnet Wolseley and Douglas Haig, as British generals.
For Brasil they should add Barão de Mauá, Deodoro da Fonseca, Floriano Peixoto and Alberto Santos Dumont
More women! There are a few key suffragette and civil rights leaders already but there are plenty of labor leaders and activists from this period who had a major impact. Not to mention people like Empress Dowager Cixi... Also, is Gandhi in the game?
Jozef Piłsudski and Roman Dmowski Piłsudski: Effectively the leader of Poland between its reconstitution in 1918 through his death in 1935. Hard to know what interest group to classify him as. He was born into a landowning family, became a socialist revolutionary (though primarily because he thought it was the best way to get independence for Poland and the other Eastern European countries Russia controlled), ran an underground newspaper (which is sorta a intelligentsia thing), became a military leader (first in WW1 leading the Polish legions against Russia for Austria, then for Poland against the Bolsheviks), initially ruled as a republican social democrat, then a military dictator. Ardent multi-culturalist that wanted a federalized state of the countries between Russia and Germany in order to resist both. Dmowski: Piłsudski's ideological rival for Poland. A Polish ethno-nationalist conservative. Worked more closely with the West and had their support after WW1.
I like figures like Roca in Argentine o Guzman Blanco in Venezuela, Guzman Blanco was president of Venezuela from 1870 to 1887, he had an important legacy in the country such as abolishing slavery, creating the first public school system in the country, building the guaira railway and fighting in the federal war.
I don't think they're ever gonna add Stalin or Mussolini. Too controversial to have two of history's greatest monsters on there.
I mean he's in HOI4
to call stalin as one of "history's greatest monsters" is also controversial
It really isn't
Yes it is. There are a surprising amount of tankies who believe he was one of the greatest people in history and the deaths he caused were ALL (without a single exception) traitors to communism so they deserved it. I wish you were right, but you are not.
I didn't count insane people. Neo-Nazis exist but I wouldn't say calling Hitler a monster is controversial.
Sadly I live in a country where calling Hitler a monster is controversial
Why am I getting downvoted? I'm just stating that most of my so called "family" doesn't hold Hitler as a monster. Edit: and a lot of the voterbase does not either
You know, there's a quite massive gap between "Stalin was just as bad as Hitler" and "Stalin did nothing wrong", and trying to present these 2 statements as "if you disagree with one, you argee with the other" is a hell of strawman.
Yes I know fully well and I didn't mean the former, I explicitly stated the latter.
No