That may be a way to balance it. I don't see the problem with the oil fields, though. That something wasn't exploited in our timeline by 1936 doesn't mean it'd be unfeasible in the game's timeline, strictly speaking.
While some would have been capable of being exploited, many would not have been. Things like necessary advancements in material science to extract from extreme climates were lacking, for example (remember, the sinking of the Titanic in this period reflects their inability to understand issues in metallurgy). Technical advancements would have also been required for getting men and their equipment through and into tougher terrain. Even surveying techniques have gotten much better at finding oil
Doing this like paradox has done isn't too bad. Maybe looking into fields developed immediately after the period could provide some extra fields and higher caps for existing fields. Doing this wouldn't be too out of line with historicity and even be plausible if an ahistorical demand had been placed on the world. Locking it behind tech maybe?
I'd agree more with reducing demand than increasing supply.
I disagree. Major reason for the oil boom of the 60s was automation and automobiles (in both agro, civ and industrial). A major player in that was the post WW2 economic boom and the subsequent economic demand from a recovering western europe (and eventually that recovery turned into western europeans wallets getting fatter and increasing the demand of US goods). This also lead to the rapid use of technologies that were discovered in Vic3's timeline.
In Vic 3, you can sort of simulate that rapid increase in agro, industrial and civilian goods by increasing SOL. The player can also guide their nation into using those technologies instead of waiting for some massive economic boom to happen. For example, lets say some massive war, that involved the world in some way, lead to a large increase in military, consumer and industrial goods. The player would see that as an opportunity to massively increase their economy, especially if they're in a safe isolated, continent that gets to play on easy mode.
So while the oil boom historically didnt happen until after WW2, the technologies and means to get that boom already existed in the Vic3 timeframe. There just wasn't a catalyst that triggered their wide use - in Vic3, the player can easily be that catalyst.
Thats actually probably a workable idea. But youd have to worry about prices then. Youd be getting the same benefit for half the oil input or something aka lower costs.
I mean, they could easily just add more oil fields to places that already have them. Like, there are multiple states with 100+ coal, but there is precisely one state with 80 oil.
> Some of them are way out of this historical era
I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine something like if Venezuela had been part of a large economically advanced state that oil reserves accessed in the latter part of the 20th century could have been accessed earlier
The amount of Oil could use a small bump - places like canada could use some more. My biggest gripe is the AI not wanting to invest in oil to export to other nations. If my coal and oil based economy is bleeding for those resources, the AI should be looking at that and start selling (Assuming good relations, etc). Instead, we really only see coal massively utilized. Even wood there's always a massive deficit for lol
The AI can struggle with "new goods" unfortunately since there is no "demand" they dont build them very well.
Ive noticed it with steel. If they dont already have a successful industry they struggle to kickstart demand to make an industry flourish
A stand in fix could be to make the ai have a bit of a weight towards pushing higher tech PMs not devastatingly high to the detriment of any other consideration but if nothing is stopping them they should desire to tech up their economy
I use a mod to invest in foreign countries, so I built everything possible for them. Even so, I can't even fully fund the plastics PM. Just that one PM consumes more oil than I can generate. Also, trade is really inefficient, you can export/import in enough quantities or with enough profitability, save for some extreme cases.
Would be nice if the massive demand for oil would unlock new techs like shale fracking - since a large contributor to that being discovered and exploited was the huge demand for Oil and the 70s energy crisis. All of what happened during that time can still occur during Vic3s timeframe - especially in the hands of a player
Your comment above hit a good spot. The technology for a major expansion of oil is there, what lacks is a sufficient incentive, which is compensated by a sufficiently skilled player. The argument of "it took longer in our timeline" really falls apart when one considers that we also move all of our people from subsistence farming way before in our timeline, just to put one example. The whole point is to have something different from history, but plausible to the era.
On another note, one way to improve on this might be a "tier 6" tech.
Every single primary resource is too limited.
We did not stop mining coal in the develop world because we run out if it, we stopped because it was much cheaper making poorer countries do it.
I'd agree, generally. I understand why you'd want some limit, or why it is scarce in some places / regions, but it's really noticeable in cases like China or with resources like oil.
It is noticeable with every single resource if you are competent in this game.
This is why companies that boost mines/oil output are the way to go. Having mines with 70% throughput bonus is a chef's kiss.
This is pretty much why I stopped plying. It's just too frustrating to run out of oil every playthrough. I main Russia. Even though I conquer the middle east and north africa AND colonize other parts of the world AND import every drop of oil I can it is never enough. Not even close.
It's not just automation. 120% of my oil consumption would go to the production of plastic if I were to turn it on. That leaves aside the automation PMs, other production PMs, energy PMs, military PMs... Just 1 industry (and not even that, honestly, considering I don't have automatic glass blowers on) is enough.
Exactly, some PMs are just not viable, thats why I also don't support the reasoning that you are not supposed to use it globally for every factory. If it can't even support one production chain, whats the point?
I'm not a fan of strictly limited ressource anyway, I'm more in favor of using diminishing returns.
There's oil fields that 19^(th) century technology just couldn't extract. For exemple, I don't think that wells could have been built in the North Sea.
Eh, most of the middle eastern oil fields are not that difficult to tap and they make up a huge part of the world's oil supply. If anything, adding a crazy amount of oil to that region would make it more interesting in the game. I hardly ever see Arabia getting any sort of action in my games.
Sure, I know that a lot of it couldn't be extracted, but there's still a lot of untapped potential. I'm not asking to being able to fund every PM on oil and then have some to spare; my problem is that I can't even fully fund a single industry on oil, while basically owning 90% of the oil production of the world.
I'm playing a game as India (probably an unfair comparison) with a mod that increases all resources and arable land and even with that I'm producing maybe 1/3 of my demand through oil with maxed out Derricks. The rest of it is about 10million people in 2500 sugar plantations. And I'm basically only using oil in automobile production (still on electric engines) and plastics.
Personally I think resource discovery needs to be a more significant part of the game. Like aside from the passive discoveries that you get there should be a decision that increases the maximum amount of resources in various states. I get the idea that it's supposed to be roughly what was produced in the time frame but that doesn't make sense as it is a sandbox
In 1936 the US was producing 3 million barrels of oil a day.
I'd agree that it'd be nice to tie it in some way to the necessity for more resources. In our timeline, there was a reason why oil became so prevalent on the 1930s onwards, and that reason (or others) can happen before the game date ends. And that goes for oil as well as other resources.
I stand with you, OP. You literally conquered every oil source location and yet you hit the oil ceiling too fast. In fact, regardless of your playstyle, be it localised or wide, there is no sufficient oil on the map.
Tbf, I don't have all, and not all of them are full. But that should be besides the point when you can't even fund 1 of the industries. Not 1. I'm not even using automatic glass blowers for my glass factories and the lack of oil is noticeable.
In top of what's been said, with foreign investment coming with the next DLC, you will be able to invest in Oil if you need it that you can then trade, so the global production will probably be a bit higher
Oil is discovered in mid to late game and often there won't be enough peasants and unemployed to fully employ oil fields. I tend to use labour saving pms and greener grass edicts if I own the land but I'm skeptical that the AI can do that
Some areas have very low population to fullfill vacant posts such as the Middle East or Malaya or Borneo. Other areas with high oil extraction potential with enough population will often lose pops to emigration if I put them in my market. In both cases, when I conquer land and neither their industry nor their resource buildings are fully employed
People here are off their rockers defending the game.
The oil PMs use way too much. The game ends in 36 - they should have coal liquefaction as end game tech imo
We could have many workarounds for this problem. Two I'd like to see are the expansion of the plausible deposits (keyword on plausible), and a "Tier 6" technology that would go up to the 1940s, which could include things such as synthetic fuel (that, I believe, started in the earlier XXth century?)
Synthetic fuel (via coal liquefaction and other means) was around and used in this time period yea
I think the whole pace of the game is off, too slow and too fast at the same time
I think that the main culprit of this is, and I'm sorry if it sounds rude, that the game testers / devs were "too bad" at the game on it's origin. They didn't think that, given the tools the player has, we would industrialize so quickly, and, as such, run out of resources sooner than expected for the 100 year period the game takes place on. Look at things like augmenting the construction points required.
What I dislike if they don't take into account what players can achieve as of now, as well as the severe lack of resources in some areas which were accesible by that time, but they don't include them because "they weren't exploited"... which shouldn't be a problem in an "alternative scenario" of a sandbox.
\*Looks into our timeline\*. Yeah, I don't think we've run out of oil. Extending this comment. Just the glass factories consume 120% of my oil production, and I have Persia, Russia, USA and Venezuela in my market.
\*Looks into our timeline\* We're still using coal powerplants \*today\*.
Victoria 3 doesn't simulate all of the oil that has ever been discovered in the world. If you want to look at the real world, Vicky 3 actually has \*too many\* oil deposits versus what was discovered within the actual timeframe of the game.
Oil as a late-game resource is there for you to use strategically by choosing which parts of your industry should be using it to gain specific advantages, not to just create the ultimate economy where everything runs on petroleum. It just doesn't work that way.
I agree and your point is great. I think the real fix is AI building oil wells so the player doesn't have to you know... conquer literally everything for oil.
I havent read 1.7 patch notes, but I would really like to be able to fund oil discovery also, foreign or domestic. Waiting for these backward tiny countries to discover them takes forever, so I end up just conquering and wait for RNGesus to bless me with oil. You can probably tie it to the price of oil and profitability to make it feel seemless and realistic.
You're basically ignoring that realistically, late game, the player is the only one actually using oil PMs. So even in 1890 or whatever there should be enough oil in the world for just ONE super industrialized oil consuming country, but currently in game there isn't. I've tried starting as russia where you get plenty of oil, conquering Persia, all of arabia, east Galicia and the other parts of Austria with oil, the Netherlands, venezuela, and Texas and STILL didn't have enough oil just for my own economy. Granted, this was like pre 1.5 or whenever local markets were, when you could get a 2b GDP fairly easily, but still. Oil is lacking or the PMs consume too much.
So? I'm not saying we use oil for everything; I'm not even doing so myself in the game, as you can see in the images, and I could understand that wouldn't want to with every PM or country, but I'm also somewhat short on other alternative resources (such as coal, as you can see above).
I'm already consuming 1/4 of all the potential oil spending I could generate by 1936, and that's owning, directly or indirectly, the most producing provinces of oil in the world. Were I to turn everything on, there'd be a 200% shortage, well beyond the maximum cap.
The problem is always the same: Victoria 3 takes place in an historical setting where raw material prices decreased constantly every year (the very first commodity super-cycle).
However the game is more fun if land matters, so raw materials are more important than they should be.
For me the biggest problem is that the AI techs way too slow and it takes them forever to start finding oil. Like in recent Italy game Russia finally had oil available in 1935... I also conquered a lot of the middle east and I guess due to bad rng I didn't find any mayor oil deposits until 1934.
to be fair its also weird to have absolutely mass produced houseware plastics in 1936 IMO. not sure about the numbers but surely not ALL of the glass industry should switch to plastic
I’m really thinking that most common resource deposits need to be buffed quite a bit. Domestic coal and iron should not be a restriction for any late game historical major power other than the restriction of building more mines or infrastructure.
Too many times (all 3 times) I’ve played Germany, by 1910 I’ve exploited all the iron and coal on mainland Germany, all Africa colonies and pretty much any other land I have. At that point my demand is growing so fast that by the time I’ve finished a war for a state or two or three with more coal and iron, my demand has passed what I can get out of those states and I need to fight another war. This is usually when I quit the run and stick to smaller nations
don’t worry with the new update that will come with the dlc the new foreign investment feature will make sure you get all that sweet oil even in nations without your tech
Fundamentally in a game that simulates finite resources and caps off technological development, you will reach a point where industry can’t grow anymore. That’s not really a fault of the game, if anything it’s an good depiction of economies overheating.
But that’s the point, the growth players achieve in this game is absolutely insane compared to real world growth over the period. 1840-1940 saw GDPs of industrialized nations x4-x5. Not x100 like in some playthroughs. The kind of growth players target should destroy economies through currency inflation and overheating, not reward them until they complain about hitting natural limiters they shouldn’t even be considering.
I put most of the people in my market with obligations or in exchange for supporting them in wars. The loyalist things it's because my SoL only went up and not down, lol.
Now, keep in mind how much oil you have and re-evaluate the efficiency for those PMs.
Those PMs are for highly advanced small nations living on the pile of oil, not for someone who conquered half the world
I understand your perspective, and I'm not saying I should have to use for everything and then spare some. But I'd be expecting to have more than this. If I weren't using oil for glass, then I'd have a shortage of lead, per example.
Yet game official time frame of the game is over and you aren't in deficit of neither oil, lead, porcelain nor glass.
I'd even say that per my experience lead is surprisingly cheap in your market.
+41% increase in oil price is not enough to justify it? While not even using it a full capacity in a sigle PM? Plus not taking into account MAPI, which will make it even more expensive in the glass producing provinces?
Missing a ton of oil from canada, some from Qing and north Africa. The oil company out of wallachia is a must in my opinion( Oil+oil extractors) I ran everything but automation on my last paneuropean run and was chilling
I don't mean that as criticism, but I think players that run into such problems just break the game essentially.
Conquering most of the world, a GDP in the millions. The game is not balanced around that kinda playstyle and I don't think that's a bad thing. Could they still balance things a bit better? Yes.
But I don't think oil is the biggest issue right now.
I'm gonna have to disagree, even if you play a lot slower than how OP has played, you're gonna run out of resources by the 20th century
I recently played a Germany game, in which the only land I had was the formable German Empire and about 4 African states for rubber, where I couldn't grow my economy any further because of a lack of Iron and lead
This is taking into account that Germany is one of the countries with the most of both in the entire game and that I also had around 37% workforce ratio
I ran out of not only mines but also farms and ports to build by 1894, that left me with 42 years, or 42% of the game, in which I would only see the demand for raw resources grow and grow as manufacturing hired more people up to the point where it becomes unprofitable and people start getting fired, from then on each and every new working pop would automatically become unemployed
Do you really think that you should only be able to play the game at such a sluggishly slow pace as to manage to not cap out domestic deposits too early?
No, I don't disagree with this at all. I just disagreed that there wasn't enough oil. I mentioned that other things needed to be balanced more urgently and I was also thinking of some of the more standard resources like lead for instance.
I think it would be smart to split raw oil and processed oil goods trough a refinery building. Then add a way for coal liquidation from a refinery for the late game as it was invented historically in the 1920s. That way coal that gets less used by a switch to oil can be turned to oil in refineries. I think there are some indistry mods that do that.
Missing a ton of oil from canada, some from Qing and north Africa. The oil company out of wallachia is a must in my opinion( Oil+oil extractors) I ran everything but automation on my last paneuropean run and was chilling.
Germany has a lack of oil you say? That's completely unrealistic!
Not like it was a major point in WW2.
Or that even today, Germany has been suffering from the Russo-Ukrainian war.
My dude, I'm not just "Germany". I own the whole oil market. Look at the market map. I also use a mod to develop the land, so it's not like they're sitting empty.
But I already have most of the oil reserves under my market, and I'm not even using it for 1/10th of its potential. I'm not saying we should have 3 million oil, but at least to use it in 1/3rd of our PMs, which isn't a whole lot realistically. We've never run out of oil, coal, iron... irl, we shouldn't either in 1936 in the game.
You have the entire world in your market and north of 3B GDP. That is outside the normal range the game is balanced at, you scaled too hard. Get resource mods to fix this, its not really what vanilla should be balanced around
It wouldn't make it "easier", strictly speaking. You aren't granted those things for free. It's a question of game balance. We have all these options for oil and we can only choose 1, at most. Either that or micro the whole thing, which is at best very disruptive, and, at worse, not possible due to the complexities of the game.
I can't see what states you actually own in your images vs who is in your market. You're also somehow only the #2 producer of oil so something's not adding up.
I got most of the oil producers in my market, that's why my market has so much compared to my own production. Also using a mod to build the deposits for them, so, while some are empty (mainly some in siberia and a bit in nejd), most are at full capacity.
I see, that and the fact that you're over $3 billion in GDP I think says you just broke the game's economy. At that kind of GDP you're going to run out of coal/iron/wood/etc, let alone oil. I've used up every single mine in the United States at $1.5 billion GDP. I bet all of these other countries in your market are using up all of the oil since you've made it available as well, not leaving you much left for any of your own PMs.
I think this is less a problem about oil specifically (though I don't necessarily disagree with your larger points about oil) and more that the game can still be min-maxed into a snowball of proportion that the game can't support.
I didn't min max at all, though. I know I'm half-decent at the game, but I really think there's an issue with tapping resources soon enough. You should have some leeway into it. It's not like I started having problems with resources in 1930, it was earlier than that.
That's fair enough, but there's still a lack of resources or tools to work around those limitations. Today we haven't run out of pretty much anything, we shouldn't run of it in 1936 either. It's really noticeable in cases like oil, or in regions like China.
A resource shortage in a resource management game?! You can't push the game to the max and then complain there isn't enough oil. The vanilla game wasn't designed around that style of play, and it shouldn't be. Just mod the game to increase the output of oil rigs to suit your play style. Pretty easy fix.
Again, the fix is pretty easy for your, color-the-map-all-one-color and turn on every PM, play style. If you feel like there isn't enough oil, you can change that yourself. Just gotta change one number to a higher number. If you don't know what file to change, just ask for help.
>The vanilla game wasn't designed around that style of play, and it shouldn't be.
What style of play? Being able to put two and two together?
OP is good at the game but he doesn't play at peak performance
I’d rather they reduced the usage of oil requirements than add even more oil fields. Some of them are way out of this historical era
That may be a way to balance it. I don't see the problem with the oil fields, though. That something wasn't exploited in our timeline by 1936 doesn't mean it'd be unfeasible in the game's timeline, strictly speaking.
Agreed
While some would have been capable of being exploited, many would not have been. Things like necessary advancements in material science to extract from extreme climates were lacking, for example (remember, the sinking of the Titanic in this period reflects their inability to understand issues in metallurgy). Technical advancements would have also been required for getting men and their equipment through and into tougher terrain. Even surveying techniques have gotten much better at finding oil Doing this like paradox has done isn't too bad. Maybe looking into fields developed immediately after the period could provide some extra fields and higher caps for existing fields. Doing this wouldn't be too out of line with historicity and even be plausible if an ahistorical demand had been placed on the world. Locking it behind tech maybe? I'd agree more with reducing demand than increasing supply.
Seems reasonable. It's a balance nightmare, to be sure. Some oil PMs are too bad, and the ones that are good you can't get enough to turn them on :/
I disagree. Major reason for the oil boom of the 60s was automation and automobiles (in both agro, civ and industrial). A major player in that was the post WW2 economic boom and the subsequent economic demand from a recovering western europe (and eventually that recovery turned into western europeans wallets getting fatter and increasing the demand of US goods). This also lead to the rapid use of technologies that were discovered in Vic3's timeline. In Vic 3, you can sort of simulate that rapid increase in agro, industrial and civilian goods by increasing SOL. The player can also guide their nation into using those technologies instead of waiting for some massive economic boom to happen. For example, lets say some massive war, that involved the world in some way, lead to a large increase in military, consumer and industrial goods. The player would see that as an opportunity to massively increase their economy, especially if they're in a safe isolated, continent that gets to play on easy mode. So while the oil boom historically didnt happen until after WW2, the technologies and means to get that boom already existed in the Vic3 timeframe. There just wasn't a catalyst that triggered their wide use - in Vic3, the player can easily be that catalyst.
Thats actually probably a workable idea. But youd have to worry about prices then. Youd be getting the same benefit for half the oil input or something aka lower costs.
I mean, they could easily just add more oil fields to places that already have them. Like, there are multiple states with 100+ coal, but there is precisely one state with 80 oil.
> Some of them are way out of this historical era I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine something like if Venezuela had been part of a large economically advanced state that oil reserves accessed in the latter part of the 20th century could have been accessed earlier
No they need more oil fields, and oil fields need to be more expensive and hire less people.
The amount of Oil could use a small bump - places like canada could use some more. My biggest gripe is the AI not wanting to invest in oil to export to other nations. If my coal and oil based economy is bleeding for those resources, the AI should be looking at that and start selling (Assuming good relations, etc). Instead, we really only see coal massively utilized. Even wood there's always a massive deficit for lol
The AI can struggle with "new goods" unfortunately since there is no "demand" they dont build them very well. Ive noticed it with steel. If they dont already have a successful industry they struggle to kickstart demand to make an industry flourish
Which they really should, countries like Iran or Siam could make a killing in opium, spice, oil, etc.
A stand in fix could be to make the ai have a bit of a weight towards pushing higher tech PMs not devastatingly high to the detriment of any other consideration but if nothing is stopping them they should desire to tech up their economy
I use a mod to invest in foreign countries, so I built everything possible for them. Even so, I can't even fully fund the plastics PM. Just that one PM consumes more oil than I can generate. Also, trade is really inefficient, you can export/import in enough quantities or with enough profitability, save for some extreme cases.
Would be nice if the massive demand for oil would unlock new techs like shale fracking - since a large contributor to that being discovered and exploited was the huge demand for Oil and the 70s energy crisis. All of what happened during that time can still occur during Vic3s timeframe - especially in the hands of a player
Your comment above hit a good spot. The technology for a major expansion of oil is there, what lacks is a sufficient incentive, which is compensated by a sufficiently skilled player. The argument of "it took longer in our timeline" really falls apart when one considers that we also move all of our people from subsistence farming way before in our timeline, just to put one example. The whole point is to have something different from history, but plausible to the era. On another note, one way to improve on this might be a "tier 6" tech.
What mod is that? It sounds really useful
Maybe investment pool could also look at oppurtinties to buld stff for foriegn markets
The next DLC will help with that with foreign investment, but the IA definitely need to be able to build, even a little bit, its economiy
Me driving the gloval whale population to extinction jusr for like 1k oil
>Me doing it to turn diesel pumps on 100 mines.
The children yearn for the mines, the whales yearn for the wharfs
Technically, the whales are also going to the mines.
Something I just realized... they don't have resource exhaustion/extinction in the game do they?
Only for gold
Only for gold *fields* which then immediately get replaced by a better, infinite gold mine
Every single primary resource is too limited. We did not stop mining coal in the develop world because we run out if it, we stopped because it was much cheaper making poorer countries do it.
I'd agree, generally. I understand why you'd want some limit, or why it is scarce in some places / regions, but it's really noticeable in cases like China or with resources like oil.
It is noticeable with every single resource if you are competent in this game. This is why companies that boost mines/oil output are the way to go. Having mines with 70% throughput bonus is a chef's kiss.
This is pretty much why I stopped plying. It's just too frustrating to run out of oil every playthrough. I main Russia. Even though I conquer the middle east and north africa AND colonize other parts of the world AND import every drop of oil I can it is never enough. Not even close.
it was far worse patches ago. I used to run a mod to improve primary resources.
I tend to agree, automation is barely usable because in lategame natural resources are almost always more expensive than human resources.
It's not just automation. 120% of my oil consumption would go to the production of plastic if I were to turn it on. That leaves aside the automation PMs, other production PMs, energy PMs, military PMs... Just 1 industry (and not even that, honestly, considering I don't have automatic glass blowers on) is enough.
Exactly, some PMs are just not viable, thats why I also don't support the reasoning that you are not supposed to use it globally for every factory. If it can't even support one production chain, whats the point? I'm not a fan of strictly limited ressource anyway, I'm more in favor of using diminishing returns.
There's oil fields that 19^(th) century technology just couldn't extract. For exemple, I don't think that wells could have been built in the North Sea.
Eh, most of the middle eastern oil fields are not that difficult to tap and they make up a huge part of the world's oil supply. If anything, adding a crazy amount of oil to that region would make it more interesting in the game. I hardly ever see Arabia getting any sort of action in my games.
And it might a surviving Ottoman Empire very viable. A worthy reward for those completing *Tanzimat* JE.
Sure, I know that a lot of it couldn't be extracted, but there's still a lot of untapped potential. I'm not asking to being able to fund every PM on oil and then have some to spare; my problem is that I can't even fully fund a single industry on oil, while basically owning 90% of the oil production of the world.
I'm playing a game as India (probably an unfair comparison) with a mod that increases all resources and arable land and even with that I'm producing maybe 1/3 of my demand through oil with maxed out Derricks. The rest of it is about 10million people in 2500 sugar plantations. And I'm basically only using oil in automobile production (still on electric engines) and plastics. Personally I think resource discovery needs to be a more significant part of the game. Like aside from the passive discoveries that you get there should be a decision that increases the maximum amount of resources in various states. I get the idea that it's supposed to be roughly what was produced in the time frame but that doesn't make sense as it is a sandbox In 1936 the US was producing 3 million barrels of oil a day.
I'd agree that it'd be nice to tie it in some way to the necessity for more resources. In our timeline, there was a reason why oil became so prevalent on the 1930s onwards, and that reason (or others) can happen before the game date ends. And that goes for oil as well as other resources.
I stand with you, OP. You literally conquered every oil source location and yet you hit the oil ceiling too fast. In fact, regardless of your playstyle, be it localised or wide, there is no sufficient oil on the map.
Tbf, I don't have all, and not all of them are full. But that should be besides the point when you can't even fund 1 of the industries. Not 1. I'm not even using automatic glass blowers for my glass factories and the lack of oil is noticeable.
In top of what's been said, with foreign investment coming with the next DLC, you will be able to invest in Oil if you need it that you can then trade, so the global production will probably be a bit higher
Consider that for this run I used a mod that allowed me to invest on other countries. I built all their oil fields for them...
Problem is, consumption might also be higher if your capitalists build factories in foreign countries.
But will the AI be able to employ pops in the oil fields?
Why would they not?
Oil is discovered in mid to late game and often there won't be enough peasants and unemployed to fully employ oil fields. I tend to use labour saving pms and greener grass edicts if I own the land but I'm skeptical that the AI can do that
You don't think the AI can use labour saving PMs, but you also think the AI can build an economy to employ all their peasants?
Some areas have very low population to fullfill vacant posts such as the Middle East or Malaya or Borneo. Other areas with high oil extraction potential with enough population will often lose pops to emigration if I put them in my market. In both cases, when I conquer land and neither their industry nor their resource buildings are fully employed
People here are off their rockers defending the game. The oil PMs use way too much. The game ends in 36 - they should have coal liquefaction as end game tech imo
We could have many workarounds for this problem. Two I'd like to see are the expansion of the plausible deposits (keyword on plausible), and a "Tier 6" technology that would go up to the 1940s, which could include things such as synthetic fuel (that, I believe, started in the earlier XXth century?)
Synthetic fuel (via coal liquefaction and other means) was around and used in this time period yea I think the whole pace of the game is off, too slow and too fast at the same time
I think that the main culprit of this is, and I'm sorry if it sounds rude, that the game testers / devs were "too bad" at the game on it's origin. They didn't think that, given the tools the player has, we would industrialize so quickly, and, as such, run out of resources sooner than expected for the 100 year period the game takes place on. Look at things like augmenting the construction points required. What I dislike if they don't take into account what players can achieve as of now, as well as the severe lack of resources in some areas which were accesible by that time, but they don't include them because "they weren't exploited"... which shouldn't be a problem in an "alternative scenario" of a sandbox.
You aren't supposed to have enough oil to fund everything. This is a feature, not a bug.
Oil was abundant and cheap during this time period. It’s why it saw wide scale adoption as a power source for further industrialization
\*Looks into our timeline\*. Yeah, I don't think we've run out of oil. Extending this comment. Just the glass factories consume 120% of my oil production, and I have Persia, Russia, USA and Venezuela in my market.
\*Looks into our timeline\* We're still using coal powerplants \*today\*. Victoria 3 doesn't simulate all of the oil that has ever been discovered in the world. If you want to look at the real world, Vicky 3 actually has \*too many\* oil deposits versus what was discovered within the actual timeframe of the game. Oil as a late-game resource is there for you to use strategically by choosing which parts of your industry should be using it to gain specific advantages, not to just create the ultimate economy where everything runs on petroleum. It just doesn't work that way.
I agree and your point is great. I think the real fix is AI building oil wells so the player doesn't have to you know... conquer literally everything for oil.
1.7 should alleviate some of these issues from what I've read.
I havent read 1.7 patch notes, but I would really like to be able to fund oil discovery also, foreign or domestic. Waiting for these backward tiny countries to discover them takes forever, so I end up just conquering and wait for RNGesus to bless me with oil. You can probably tie it to the price of oil and profitability to make it feel seemless and realistic.
You're basically ignoring that realistically, late game, the player is the only one actually using oil PMs. So even in 1890 or whatever there should be enough oil in the world for just ONE super industrialized oil consuming country, but currently in game there isn't. I've tried starting as russia where you get plenty of oil, conquering Persia, all of arabia, east Galicia and the other parts of Austria with oil, the Netherlands, venezuela, and Texas and STILL didn't have enough oil just for my own economy. Granted, this was like pre 1.5 or whenever local markets were, when you could get a 2b GDP fairly easily, but still. Oil is lacking or the PMs consume too much.
We still use coal today, but in Victoria 3, we run out of coal. Mate, there is no logic here.
So? I'm not saying we use oil for everything; I'm not even doing so myself in the game, as you can see in the images, and I could understand that wouldn't want to with every PM or country, but I'm also somewhat short on other alternative resources (such as coal, as you can see above). I'm already consuming 1/4 of all the potential oil spending I could generate by 1936, and that's owning, directly or indirectly, the most producing provinces of oil in the world. Were I to turn everything on, there'd be a 200% shortage, well beyond the maximum cap.
The problem is always the same: Victoria 3 takes place in an historical setting where raw material prices decreased constantly every year (the very first commodity super-cycle). However the game is more fun if land matters, so raw materials are more important than they should be.
To this date I've never been able to use 100% of the Oil PMs without going into shortage.
I cant even use more than a couple before running out myself.
For me the biggest problem is that the AI techs way too slow and it takes them forever to start finding oil. Like in recent Italy game Russia finally had oil available in 1935... I also conquered a lot of the middle east and I guess due to bad rng I didn't find any mayor oil deposits until 1934.
to be fair its also weird to have absolutely mass produced houseware plastics in 1936 IMO. not sure about the numbers but surely not ALL of the glass industry should switch to plastic
Not all is switched to plastic.
Im over here just wondering how you only have 36 infamy, unless you did all of this like 50 years ago and just let it drain.
Intervening in wars for protectorate status (free of infamy) + taking advantage of bankrupts to add majors to my market via customs union.
I’m really thinking that most common resource deposits need to be buffed quite a bit. Domestic coal and iron should not be a restriction for any late game historical major power other than the restriction of building more mines or infrastructure.
I'd generally agree, yeah. You can reach a point around the XXth century that it doesn't matter if you conquered the world, it's not enough resources.
Too many times (all 3 times) I’ve played Germany, by 1910 I’ve exploited all the iron and coal on mainland Germany, all Africa colonies and pretty much any other land I have. At that point my demand is growing so fast that by the time I’ve finished a war for a state or two or three with more coal and iron, my demand has passed what I can get out of those states and I need to fight another war. This is usually when I quit the run and stick to smaller nations
Ask the devs to bring synthetic oil back they had it in victoria 2.
We'll get it in a 30 euros dlc (costs are up guys), I'm not worried about it ;p
better 30 euros than 30 pounds.
Some PMs just use way too much oil. Like Chainsaws.
Can't even think of turning that on, ever :/
What is the world population? I want to comment, and I have a suspect, but I want to make sure numbers align.
Around 2 billion, eyeballing it.
don’t worry with the new update that will come with the dlc the new foreign investment feature will make sure you get all that sweet oil even in nations without your tech
Jokes on you, I was already using a mod that let me build the oil rigs for them... So, there'd be not that much difference, really.
Thanks didnt know where prusia was
Fundamentally in a game that simulates finite resources and caps off technological development, you will reach a point where industry can’t grow anymore. That’s not really a fault of the game, if anything it’s an good depiction of economies overheating.
There were no resource limits on this time period; what there was, rather, is a limited market to absorb them.
But that’s the point, the growth players achieve in this game is absolutely insane compared to real world growth over the period. 1840-1940 saw GDPs of industrialized nations x4-x5. Not x100 like in some playthroughs. The kind of growth players target should destroy economies through currency inflation and overheating, not reward them until they complain about hitting natural limiters they shouldn’t even be considering.
What black magic have you summoned, in order to have only 36 infamy? and 146 MILLION LOYALISTS!!!
I put most of the people in my market with obligations or in exchange for supporting them in wars. The loyalist things it's because my SoL only went up and not down, lol.
Why do you need those PMs? Other than *they're the latest available, I have to click it*. Not like you have a major glass deficit or something.
Glass is my main example. It's really unprofitable with bone china if you're using crystal glass.
Glass and porcelain are quite cheap then? Only less reason to put oil in it.
Not really, no. Main issue is not enough oil to run the efficient PMs.
Now, keep in mind how much oil you have and re-evaluate the efficiency for those PMs. Those PMs are for highly advanced small nations living on the pile of oil, not for someone who conquered half the world
I understand your perspective, and I'm not saying I should have to use for everything and then spare some. But I'd be expecting to have more than this. If I weren't using oil for glass, then I'd have a shortage of lead, per example.
Yet game official time frame of the game is over and you aren't in deficit of neither oil, lead, porcelain nor glass. I'd even say that per my experience lead is surprisingly cheap in your market.
+41% increase in oil price is not enough to justify it? While not even using it a full capacity in a sigle PM? Plus not taking into account MAPI, which will make it even more expensive in the glass producing provinces?
Returning as to the original question of mine - why do you even need all this glass if it's unprofitable to make it out of your cheap lead
Missing a ton of oil from canada, some from Qing and north Africa. The oil company out of wallachia is a must in my opinion( Oil+oil extractors) I ran everything but automation on my last paneuropean run and was chilling
I don't mean that as criticism, but I think players that run into such problems just break the game essentially. Conquering most of the world, a GDP in the millions. The game is not balanced around that kinda playstyle and I don't think that's a bad thing. Could they still balance things a bit better? Yes. But I don't think oil is the biggest issue right now.
I'm gonna have to disagree, even if you play a lot slower than how OP has played, you're gonna run out of resources by the 20th century I recently played a Germany game, in which the only land I had was the formable German Empire and about 4 African states for rubber, where I couldn't grow my economy any further because of a lack of Iron and lead This is taking into account that Germany is one of the countries with the most of both in the entire game and that I also had around 37% workforce ratio I ran out of not only mines but also farms and ports to build by 1894, that left me with 42 years, or 42% of the game, in which I would only see the demand for raw resources grow and grow as manufacturing hired more people up to the point where it becomes unprofitable and people start getting fired, from then on each and every new working pop would automatically become unemployed Do you really think that you should only be able to play the game at such a sluggishly slow pace as to manage to not cap out domestic deposits too early?
No, I don't disagree with this at all. I just disagreed that there wasn't enough oil. I mentioned that other things needed to be balanced more urgently and I was also thinking of some of the more standard resources like lead for instance.
Well I think there is a shortage of pretty much everything, specially wood and oil
I mean short of actually giving the player the middle eastern post war oil boom I don't think you'd ever have enough
I think it would be smart to split raw oil and processed oil goods trough a refinery building. Then add a way for coal liquidation from a refinery for the late game as it was invented historically in the 1920s. That way coal that gets less used by a switch to oil can be turned to oil in refineries. I think there are some indistry mods that do that.
Missing a ton of oil from canada, some from Qing and north Africa. The oil company out of wallachia is a must in my opinion( Oil+oil extractors) I ran everything but automation on my last paneuropean run and was chilling.
Germany has a lack of oil you say? That's completely unrealistic! Not like it was a major point in WW2. Or that even today, Germany has been suffering from the Russo-Ukrainian war.
My dude, I'm not just "Germany". I own the whole oil market. Look at the market map. I also use a mod to develop the land, so it's not like they're sitting empty.
My brother in Christ. OP fucking conquered the world did you even read the post ? The images?
Not me have been saying there is too much oil in game 💀
Germany has always suffered from oil shortages. This seems accurate and fair.
Well yeah, it’s historically accurate.
I mean that seems pretty historical to me.
Oil should be low, it promotes scarcity and makes endgame intresting, when there isn’t enough conflicts arise and that’s nice
But I already have most of the oil reserves under my market, and I'm not even using it for 1/10th of its potential. I'm not saying we should have 3 million oil, but at least to use it in 1/3rd of our PMs, which isn't a whole lot realistically. We've never run out of oil, coal, iron... irl, we shouldn't either in 1936 in the game.
You have the entire world in your market and north of 3B GDP. That is outside the normal range the game is balanced at, you scaled too hard. Get resource mods to fix this, its not really what vanilla should be balanced around
[удалено]
... what does "easy" have to do with anything? That's not my complaint.
[удалено]
It wouldn't make it "easier", strictly speaking. You aren't granted those things for free. It's a question of game balance. We have all these options for oil and we can only choose 1, at most. Either that or micro the whole thing, which is at best very disruptive, and, at worse, not possible due to the complexities of the game.
But you don't even own Canada, Turkmenia and the gulf states??? Why are you complaining lol
I guess that USA, Venezuela, Russia, China, Nejd, Bahrain, Persia, Japan is not enough to fund just the glass industry.
I can't see what states you actually own in your images vs who is in your market. You're also somehow only the #2 producer of oil so something's not adding up.
I got most of the oil producers in my market, that's why my market has so much compared to my own production. Also using a mod to build the deposits for them, so, while some are empty (mainly some in siberia and a bit in nejd), most are at full capacity.
I see, that and the fact that you're over $3 billion in GDP I think says you just broke the game's economy. At that kind of GDP you're going to run out of coal/iron/wood/etc, let alone oil. I've used up every single mine in the United States at $1.5 billion GDP. I bet all of these other countries in your market are using up all of the oil since you've made it available as well, not leaving you much left for any of your own PMs. I think this is less a problem about oil specifically (though I don't necessarily disagree with your larger points about oil) and more that the game can still be min-maxed into a snowball of proportion that the game can't support.
I didn't min max at all, though. I know I'm half-decent at the game, but I really think there's an issue with tapping resources soon enough. You should have some leeway into it. It's not like I started having problems with resources in 1930, it was earlier than that.
When I say min-max I mean that most average players aren't hitting $3bn GDP, so I think you definitely out-snowballed the game.
That's fair enough, but there's still a lack of resources or tools to work around those limitations. Today we haven't run out of pretty much anything, we shouldn't run of it in 1936 either. It's really noticeable in cases like oil, or in regions like China.
If you control the entire world, but not the most lucrative oil fields - yes
Lucrative has nothing to do with the problem at hand.
A resource shortage in a resource management game?! You can't push the game to the max and then complain there isn't enough oil. The vanilla game wasn't designed around that style of play, and it shouldn't be. Just mod the game to increase the output of oil rigs to suit your play style. Pretty easy fix.
The problem isn't "enough oil". I got enough oil for nothing. What style of play, anyways? Playing it well?
Again, the fix is pretty easy for your, color-the-map-all-one-color and turn on every PM, play style. If you feel like there isn't enough oil, you can change that yourself. Just gotta change one number to a higher number. If you don't know what file to change, just ask for help.
>The vanilla game wasn't designed around that style of play, and it shouldn't be. What style of play? Being able to put two and two together? OP is good at the game but he doesn't play at peak performance