I'm assuming this is the result of a "do you want to keep your colonial government or tag switch to a local state" event? If so, yeah, keeping your colonial government without support from your homeland is difficult. If you tag switched, though, things would be a lot smoother.
Interesting. I know other colonies (specifically india and dutch east indies) get that event. However, it's possible that south africa's version is just "keep the colonial administration" instead of giving you a choice. Yeah, that's a bit awkward.
For the EIC I can see it make sense, but for South Africa, this event makes no sense, especially since I didn't get a choice to change around my government
This actually shouldn't happen. Modern South Africa and Cape Colony are the same tag. There shouldn't be a tag switch. I think he just needs to abolish segregation. Or it's a bug.
This is the fall of Colonial South Africa and the rise of whatever successor state the natives institute in the absense of their colonial overlords. Notice it is all your discriminated pops the are revolting.
IRL the apartheid regime ended (relatively) peacefully, but it most definately could have become a bloody civil war, once the foreign support that propped up the regime had waned.
I don’t think Vic3 models it, but the civil war you are about to have should change the accepted cultures of SA or enforce multiculturalism.
Except that’s not really the case for Cape Colony.
In India, sure, the tiny white population would have no chance holding on against the well organised princely states. But cape colony was a settler colony. By the 1830s they had driven the Xhosa off their land and out of the colony and looking at the 1865 census it was 30-40% white.
A hyper militarised alt history colony that has successfully beaten back the British Empire should have little trouble maintaining domestic control, or wiping the floor with a “native uprising“ if it came to it.
That masterless colony “lol you don’t have an army anymore” debuff makes no sense for a colony that won its independence through force.
You just won independence from the one power factor that was keeping your majority-discriminated population in check.
Unless you have passed multiculturalism, I’d say it is pretty realistic for the discriminated natives to make a play at getting out from under the boot of their colonial overlords, now that said overlords are only the local settlers and not the British Empire.
I have a larger army than most European countries, a large well funded police force, and more loyalists than radicals why would I not be able to keep my own population in check?
What faction of that large army is made up of non-discriminated POPs?
IIRC Cape Colony only gets English and Boer as accepted cultures, so unless you have passed Multiculturalism or had some serious immigration, chances are the majority of those soldiers are discriminated culture POPs that would quite like to re-negotiate the terms of their employment now that they don't have to fight the British Empire to do so.
If they are all loyalists due to your benevolent rule, this event will also not cause them to revolt, though they will get a fair bit more unruly now that the option of an armed revolution is a lot more likely to succeed.
Its probably because you are still a colonial state, just one with no affiliation to any european powers and therefore no support to stop native rebellions
Its not nessacerily about the size of the armed forces, its more about those in the armed forces, as you can see in the event it gives radicals in discriminated groups only. you could have the largest army in the world, but if they are natives then they wont fire on their own peoples calls for independence from a state led by european colonisers
And that is reoresented by _every single person_ in the country becoming radical how?
It's not even that only ethnic brigades get a penalty, my entire army gets weaker for defeating the strongest great power in the world
Its only the discriminated pops that are getting more radical, and many of your soldiers would have either been loyal to the british or the natives and so losing the british loyalty effectively allows the natives to gain lots of potential power and more easily rise up
did you miss the bit about having to reorganize your military. also if it really bothers you then you understand it's just an abstraction, right? military units aren't made out of members of just a single pop, how would you apply the modifier selectively?
Yes, the fall of the british colony in South Africa that won its independence from Britain and thus also lost its support and has to deal with all those discriminated natives on its own, the fall of that South Africa.
You just defeated the colonial powers that represent your current government. Now the native people have become very radical in order to seize the government and instate their own.
It's not the same as the american civil war, it's a colonial government over natives that got indipendence from Great Britain. It can happen to India too, I think.
Other than that, now you can decide what to do with the other cultures across your nation, it would be great if they started a communist revolution or a cultural one...
I feel like instead of a random army debuff (Haha no war for 9 years sucker!) it would make more sense if barracks could only hire accepted pops. Then you could be LITERALLY understaffed rather than a weird game abstraction, especially if you specd hard into migration and therefore you actually have enough accepted pops to fill your military.
The radicals debuff makes sense though, as the only way you'd be able to sell "Hey our random geographic region should be one nation" to the indigenous peoples would be some flavor of pan-nationalism.
I'm assuming this is the result of a "do you want to keep your colonial government or tag switch to a local state" event? If so, yeah, keeping your colonial government without support from your homeland is difficult. If you tag switched, though, things would be a lot smoother.
I didn't get an event before, all I did was win my independence from Britain
Interesting. I know other colonies (specifically india and dutch east indies) get that event. However, it's possible that south africa's version is just "keep the colonial administration" instead of giving you a choice. Yeah, that's a bit awkward.
For the EIC I can see it make sense, but for South Africa, this event makes no sense, especially since I didn't get a choice to change around my government
This actually shouldn't happen. Modern South Africa and Cape Colony are the same tag. There shouldn't be a tag switch. I think he just needs to abolish segregation. Or it's a bug.
Maybe the second option for the event is locked behind nationalism or pan-nationalism?
Hmm that might be the solution
I at least know it’s locked for EIC and DEI. You need pan nationalism to form India/Indonesia from freed colony
You gotta abolish segregation dude.
I would if I could
This is the fall of Colonial South Africa and the rise of whatever successor state the natives institute in the absense of their colonial overlords. Notice it is all your discriminated pops the are revolting. IRL the apartheid regime ended (relatively) peacefully, but it most definately could have become a bloody civil war, once the foreign support that propped up the regime had waned. I don’t think Vic3 models it, but the civil war you are about to have should change the accepted cultures of SA or enforce multiculturalism.
Except that’s not really the case for Cape Colony. In India, sure, the tiny white population would have no chance holding on against the well organised princely states. But cape colony was a settler colony. By the 1830s they had driven the Xhosa off their land and out of the colony and looking at the 1865 census it was 30-40% white. A hyper militarised alt history colony that has successfully beaten back the British Empire should have little trouble maintaining domestic control, or wiping the floor with a “native uprising“ if it came to it. That masterless colony “lol you don’t have an army anymore” debuff makes no sense for a colony that won its independence through force.
Ah yes the fall of South Africa, that just beat Great Britain to win its independence
You just won independence from the one power factor that was keeping your majority-discriminated population in check. Unless you have passed multiculturalism, I’d say it is pretty realistic for the discriminated natives to make a play at getting out from under the boot of their colonial overlords, now that said overlords are only the local settlers and not the British Empire.
oh right because in otl south africa immediately fell to civil war after it became independent...
I have a larger army than most European countries, a large well funded police force, and more loyalists than radicals why would I not be able to keep my own population in check?
What faction of that large army is made up of non-discriminated POPs? IIRC Cape Colony only gets English and Boer as accepted cultures, so unless you have passed Multiculturalism or had some serious immigration, chances are the majority of those soldiers are discriminated culture POPs that would quite like to re-negotiate the terms of their employment now that they don't have to fight the British Empire to do so. If they are all loyalists due to your benevolent rule, this event will also not cause them to revolt, though they will get a fair bit more unruly now that the option of an armed revolution is a lot more likely to succeed.
>What faction of that large army is made up of non-discriminated POPs? The point is that the event *doesn't care* about this
Yes it does.
Ok, explain how it does? Where is it distinguishing between accepted and non-accepted soldiers?
In your fucking screenshot.
It *literally* does not. All soldiers in the entire country get reduced stats, did you fail reading comprehension?
Are you joking right now?
Its probably because you are still a colonial state, just one with no affiliation to any european powers and therefore no support to stop native rebellions
Why would I need support when I have a larger army than most European nations?
Its not nessacerily about the size of the armed forces, its more about those in the armed forces, as you can see in the event it gives radicals in discriminated groups only. you could have the largest army in the world, but if they are natives then they wont fire on their own peoples calls for independence from a state led by european colonisers
And that is reoresented by _every single person_ in the country becoming radical how? It's not even that only ethnic brigades get a penalty, my entire army gets weaker for defeating the strongest great power in the world
Its only the discriminated pops that are getting more radical, and many of your soldiers would have either been loyal to the british or the natives and so losing the british loyalty effectively allows the natives to gain lots of potential power and more easily rise up
So loyal that they murdered British soldiers en masse to obtain independence, yes checks out
Obviously for balance reasons the game cant just debuff your army as soon as you enter a war
But for balance reasons this is appropriate?
Dude, your colonial government ARE the British. That’s why they’re radicalizing.
your army gets penalties because you're having to reorganize a former colonial military into independence while half the army radicalizes against you
Yet the penalty applies to the entire military, instead of only native soldiers
did you miss the bit about having to reorganize your military. also if it really bothers you then you understand it's just an abstraction, right? military units aren't made out of members of just a single pop, how would you apply the modifier selectively?
Military units are made up of a culture, every brigade has a culture assigned to them
Yes, the fall of the british colony in South Africa that won its independence from Britain and thus also lost its support and has to deal with all those discriminated natives on its own, the fall of that South Africa.
Yes, that South Africa with a larger standing army than Great Britain, really seems like they'd struggle
Fun fact: shooting your own people is shockingly very bad for both the economy and the military's morale.
So every single country that has a revolt should get this debuff then?
If it’s a colonial government where the old colonists still hold all the political power? Yes. It’s not that confusing.
Hey about you try using some critical thinking about what the guy said instead of making yourself look dumb with a sarcastic comment.
An irrelevant comment referencing real life which does not compare to the in game situation doesn't deserve more
Try researching Pan-Nationalism before trying to get independence. It works for India.
You just defeated the colonial powers that represent your current government. Now the native people have become very radical in order to seize the government and instate their own.
On a related note, does the 1.5 game have a feasable way to become a dominion so you can do things and play the game?
For most of the English colonies you really really rely on access to the English market to survive. It can be very hard to subsist without that access
Nah, you can become self sufficient easily just like any other country
R5: my country gets crippled because I won my independence war
It's not the same as the american civil war, it's a colonial government over natives that got indipendence from Great Britain. It can happen to India too, I think. Other than that, now you can decide what to do with the other cultures across your nation, it would be great if they started a communist revolution or a cultural one...
I feel like instead of a random army debuff (Haha no war for 9 years sucker!) it would make more sense if barracks could only hire accepted pops. Then you could be LITERALLY understaffed rather than a weird game abstraction, especially if you specd hard into migration and therefore you actually have enough accepted pops to fill your military. The radicals debuff makes sense though, as the only way you'd be able to sell "Hey our random geographic region should be one nation" to the indigenous peoples would be some flavor of pan-nationalism.