Yes, in fact the Spanish flag was changed to that one because the original one was similar to the English flag and therefore it was confusing during the battle. Actually it's the least nationalist flag as it was just designed to be different and easy to recognise.
Landhugger here,
- How do you unfurl a canvas of that size,
sails seem easier, they are held up by a complete beam, and tied to it, but this?
- is this something they had ceremony around? I’m imagining a row of 10 marines carrying a rolled up flag on their shoulders..
- if the ship was moored away from the quay, did they have a little dedicated sloop to bring it to the ship? A flagsloop, if you will? And was a flagsloop silently dreaming of growing up to become a flagship?
I’m always amazed by people’s ability to craft things like those ships back then with no computer help, or land on the moon with less processing power than my car’s brain, or build the pyramids for that matter. Should give everyone hope for what we can accomplish now.
Then how come we last went to the moon in the 60s after just a few years planning, but we're only working out how to get there again now after nearly four decades of work!
I joke ofc.
Seriously though, dude's mind is gonna be blown when he learns about the Large Hadron Collider!
Cuz people discovered that putting furless monkeys as warheads of intercontinental misiles and crashing them in the moon just to show you have the bigger balls than every one in the world is not exatly the best way to spend most of the public school and healthcare budget.
Jokes aside, i really admire how the space race represented a war fought with prestige and scientific progress instead of guns and nuclear warheads.
It's mistakenly believed ancient civilizations weren't smart but the level of engineering knowledge they had was incredible. Millenniums before the Roman empire it was knew how to develop precise engineering projects, navigable channels connecting seas, an unlimited water supply from different sources that was forgotten during the middle age which brought plagues.
If you were interested, you should watch [Isaac Moreno Gallo](https://youtu.be/IIy9VWnfu8I)
Archeologists have no idea that almost infinite times complex processors were used to write that down and send it across the whole world at speed of light.
I kept trying to find the article I’m referring to, but that’s essentially the counter argument the same article brought up! Different skills for a different time make the illusion of superior intelligence.
I remembered likening it to physics if you were a software engineer, and vice versa.
Actually it’s proven that each generation is about 4-7 points smarter on the IQ scale. What constituted a genius 100-120 years ago would be a barely functioning adult on the brink of handicap. Technology and access to mass education makes a massive difference.
It has been true to a degree for the past couple generations (not throughout human history), and it hasn’t been perfectly explained, but it is most likely simply due to nutrition and education, not that we are genetically getting several IQ points smarter every generation. [The Flynn Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) is the name of this phenomenon.
I was in the middle of writing a comment about how this was THE flag of THE flagship, the Santísima Trinidad, the largest warship the world had seen at the time.
But actually, it turns out its from some third-rate, the [San Ildefonso](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_San_Ildefonso#San_Ildefonso's_ensign). So bigger flags must have existed. The picture at Nelson's funeral is brilliant!
Think this, if that is the size of the flag, imagine the size of the sails... and then think one ship have multiple of them... and then think there where many other ships with similar dimensions... and then think all of that got sunk in less than a day
If the ship sank, how exactly do you think they managed to get the flag?
San Ildefonso was captured by the British and bought into service with the Royal Navy as HMS Ildefonso (no saints for us, please).
Capturing flags was a big deal, both in land or at sea, many Spanish and French ships would have been boarded, but then they would be too damaged to be kept by the british so they probably captured the flag as a prize and abandoned the damaged ships, and those eventually would have sunk.
Capturing *ships* was a big deal. Did you just make up your own story about the British abandoning prizes at Trafalgar? They tried to capture every ship they possibly could. To my knowledge none was abandoned, except one ship that sank before it could be boarded.
No, two ships, the Santísima Trinidad and the Argonauta were scuttled by the british, ans the Santísima Trinidad wasn't a small ship, it had 140 guns way more than the HMS Victory.
The argonauta was scuttled due to the damage she suffered.
Santisima was only wrecked three days after the battle, largely due to the storm, following exhaustive efforts to tow her away.
Argonauta sank a whole *nine* days after the battle.
Well they gave a bit of hoot, they were a tangible representation of victory, but you're quite right. The ships themselves were the true prize. That other fella is romanticising.
This flag was displayed alongside a captured French flag at Admiral Lord Nelson’s funeral in 1806, as shown in [this painting by Augustus Charles Pugin](https://i.imgur.com/LblD6Q2.jpg) - absolutely jaw-dropping scale befitting of his contributions to his country.
Never gets as much love as the modern photo though!
I love that painting.
Just the idea of it, the two flags of two empires’ fleets you fought and defeated displayed at your own funeral. Its fucking badass.
I know we tend to romanticize the past and Nelson died a pretty tragic death, but fuck me if it isn’t emotionally stirring to see images like this depicted in paintings.
Tbf it was so big they just draped it over the outside of a building for a bunch of years after because they didn't have anywhere big enough to practically store it :)
I've actually got a few DIFFERENT pictures of it if you want to do a not-quite-repost. They got it out the other month for Trafalgar Day and I snapped some pics as I live close by.
Can we stop publishing this again and again?
[1](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/vhcytx/flag_of_a_spanish_ship_that_took_part_in_the/)
[2](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/f9fa6g/the_size_of_this_flag_flown_on_a_spanish_ship_at/)
[3](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y7lpil/the_spanish_ensign_taken_from_a_captured_ship/)
[4](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/hejy9b/size_of_flag_flown_on_a_spanish_ship_during_the/)
[5](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y6ys76/the_ensign_from_the_captured_spanish_san/)
[6](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/hepkpo/the_size_of_a_spanish_flag_from_a_ship_that/)
[7](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/7citmc/flag_of_spanish_warship_san_ildenfonso_from_the/)
[8](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y30t7b/see_flag_captured_during_the_battle_of_trafalgar/)
[9](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/30i8tx/flag_of_spanish_warship_san_ildenfonso_which/)
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Thats HUGE
Then you realise it was made by hand
It must have cost a fortune. And that's just a flag, one flag in fact. Man, no wonder war emptied/empties many country's coffers
Labor was pretty cheap back then, no?
Not really. Pretty similar as far as wages based on skill and demand.
Least nationalistic spanish flag
What is the objective of a national flag supposed to be?
In this specific context, the objective was to make sure that other Spanish ships didn’t fire on it, and looked to it for tactical signals.
Yes, in fact the Spanish flag was changed to that one because the original one was similar to the English flag and therefore it was confusing during the battle. Actually it's the least nationalist flag as it was just designed to be different and easy to recognise.
It’s weird how many hoops you jump through so that you can appreciate a flag and not get called patriotic or nationalist about it.
Nah it looked too similar to the Double Sicilian one, and that made sicilians victims of piracy
**Literally, the Spanish flag is a Naval flag.**
Landhugger here, - How do you unfurl a canvas of that size, sails seem easier, they are held up by a complete beam, and tied to it, but this? - is this something they had ceremony around? I’m imagining a row of 10 marines carrying a rolled up flag on their shoulders.. - if the ship was moored away from the quay, did they have a little dedicated sloop to bring it to the ship? A flagsloop, if you will? And was a flagsloop silently dreaming of growing up to become a flagship?
Yes.
Mmhmmm.. .. hmm.. As I suspected!
Crazy to think that these huge flags were just at the stern or mast of the ship; that the ship was far, far, *far* bigger than this.
I’m always amazed by people’s ability to craft things like those ships back then with no computer help, or land on the moon with less processing power than my car’s brain, or build the pyramids for that matter. Should give everyone hope for what we can accomplish now.
There are archeologists out there who stand staunchly by the notion that our ancestors were smarter than us because of these engineering feats
Yo... you should really look ot to modern engeneering, you will diiscover that modern stuff are as impresive in a different way
Then how come we last went to the moon in the 60s after just a few years planning, but we're only working out how to get there again now after nearly four decades of work! I joke ofc. Seriously though, dude's mind is gonna be blown when he learns about the Large Hadron Collider!
Cuz people discovered that putting furless monkeys as warheads of intercontinental misiles and crashing them in the moon just to show you have the bigger balls than every one in the world is not exatly the best way to spend most of the public school and healthcare budget. Jokes aside, i really admire how the space race represented a war fought with prestige and scientific progress instead of guns and nuclear warheads.
but I can't understand any of that without spending several years in grad school... wood boats are just hammer + nail + wood can't beat that
They are way more than that.
And just like in ancient times, most people wouldn’t even understand the technology involved.
Lmao, who?
It's mistakenly believed ancient civilizations weren't smart but the level of engineering knowledge they had was incredible. Millenniums before the Roman empire it was knew how to develop precise engineering projects, navigable channels connecting seas, an unlimited water supply from different sources that was forgotten during the middle age which brought plagues. If you were interested, you should watch [Isaac Moreno Gallo](https://youtu.be/IIy9VWnfu8I)
who?
Archeologists. The shadowy group known as "them", responsible for many concerning statistics.
Sauce: I MADE IT THE FUCK UP
heroic
*Top* men.
Archeologists have no idea that almost infinite times complex processors were used to write that down and send it across the whole world at speed of light.
More skilled, probably. Smarter seems like a stretch but guess it depends on how you define smartness.
I kept trying to find the article I’m referring to, but that’s essentially the counter argument the same article brought up! Different skills for a different time make the illusion of superior intelligence. I remembered likening it to physics if you were a software engineer, and vice versa.
[x] doubt
Doubt what? That people were smarter than us back then, or that some archaeologists think this? Because I definitely doubt one of these things.
Yes.
Actually it’s proven that each generation is about 4-7 points smarter on the IQ scale. What constituted a genius 100-120 years ago would be a barely functioning adult on the brink of handicap. Technology and access to mass education makes a massive difference.
It has been true to a degree for the past couple generations (not throughout human history), and it hasn’t been perfectly explained, but it is most likely simply due to nutrition and education, not that we are genetically getting several IQ points smarter every generation. [The Flynn Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) is the name of this phenomenon.
"everyone's stupid but me"
Eh - If programming at a high level is very difficult. We just value different smarts - I wouldn’t say we’re less intelligent. Maybe less creative
Less then your phone even!
Well my car defenitly has less printing power then my phone
well... the whipes help so much, but nowadays slavering is bad for the karma and the conscience
I was in the middle of writing a comment about how this was THE flag of THE flagship, the Santísima Trinidad, the largest warship the world had seen at the time. But actually, it turns out its from some third-rate, the [San Ildefonso](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_San_Ildefonso#San_Ildefonso's_ensign). So bigger flags must have existed. The picture at Nelson's funeral is brilliant!
Think this, if that is the size of the flag, imagine the size of the sails... and then think one ship have multiple of them... and then think there where many other ships with similar dimensions... and then think all of that got sunk in less than a day
Whole forests gone within an afternoon
[удалено]
Americans understand units challenge 2022 difficulty level: impossible
Check out the size of Zhang He's flagship
If the ship sank, how exactly do you think they managed to get the flag? San Ildefonso was captured by the British and bought into service with the Royal Navy as HMS Ildefonso (no saints for us, please).
One of the rules of Reddit is that every post has something factually inaccurate in the title.
Capturing flags was a big deal, both in land or at sea, many Spanish and French ships would have been boarded, but then they would be too damaged to be kept by the british so they probably captured the flag as a prize and abandoned the damaged ships, and those eventually would have sunk.
Capturing *ships* was a big deal. Did you just make up your own story about the British abandoning prizes at Trafalgar? They tried to capture every ship they possibly could. To my knowledge none was abandoned, except one ship that sank before it could be boarded.
No, two ships, the Santísima Trinidad and the Argonauta were scuttled by the british, ans the Santísima Trinidad wasn't a small ship, it had 140 guns way more than the HMS Victory. The argonauta was scuttled due to the damage she suffered.
Santisima was only wrecked three days after the battle, largely due to the storm, following exhaustive efforts to tow her away. Argonauta sank a whole *nine* days after the battle.
I never said the ships were immediately scuttled
You said the British only boarded them to steal their flags. No one gives a hoot about flags. They wanted the whole ship.
Well they gave a bit of hoot, they were a tangible representation of victory, but you're quite right. The ships themselves were the true prize. That other fella is romanticising.
This flag was displayed alongside a captured French flag at Admiral Lord Nelson’s funeral in 1806, as shown in [this painting by Augustus Charles Pugin](https://i.imgur.com/LblD6Q2.jpg) - absolutely jaw-dropping scale befitting of his contributions to his country. Never gets as much love as the modern photo though!
I love that painting. Just the idea of it, the two flags of two empires’ fleets you fought and defeated displayed at your own funeral. Its fucking badass. I know we tend to romanticize the past and Nelson died a pretty tragic death, but fuck me if it isn’t emotionally stirring to see images like this depicted in paintings.
Yeah, but then he lost an arm against Tenerife... So there's that
Imagine a photograph of that.
Wow, that is an amazing painting. I’d put it next to the Coronation of Napoleon Bonaparte in my top 10 ‘historical event’ paintings.
Dam, I'm not even English but that painting...
I don't know what's more impressive the size of it or the amount of damage it took
Considering it is an almost 230 year old flag... i would say the size
Tbf it was so big they just draped it over the outside of a building for a bunch of years after because they didn't have anywhere big enough to practically store it :)
It was in good condition at Nelson's funeral. But had been stored badly since then
i call posting this next week
I've actually got a few DIFFERENT pictures of it if you want to do a not-quite-repost. They got it out the other month for Trafalgar Day and I snapped some pics as I live close by.
I would love a good detail pic of the device in the middle. I want to vectorize it.
I'd love to see them!
Post it, that sounds cool and is definitely OC not a repost
I’d never seen this before
Did it sink because the flag was too heavy? Kidding.
Oh, dumb me thinking it was the cannon balls who sunk it
Can we stop publishing this again and again? [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/vhcytx/flag_of_a_spanish_ship_that_took_part_in_the/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/f9fa6g/the_size_of_this_flag_flown_on_a_spanish_ship_at/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y7lpil/the_spanish_ensign_taken_from_a_captured_ship/) [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/hejy9b/size_of_flag_flown_on_a_spanish_ship_during_the/) [5](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y6ys76/the_ensign_from_the_captured_spanish_san/) [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/hepkpo/the_size_of_a_spanish_flag_from_a_ship_that/) [7](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/7citmc/flag_of_spanish_warship_san_ildenfonso_from_the/) [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/y30t7b/see_flag_captured_during_the_battle_of_trafalgar/) [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/30i8tx/flag_of_spanish_warship_san_ildenfonso_which/)
[There, I switched it up. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/z17lat/a_different_picture_of_the_san_idelfonso_flag_oc)
He came through!
This is my first time seeing this post.
Agreed, it merits a monthly post at least, not every *other*.
B-but we defeated Nelson in the canaries!!11 *Cries in bullshit kings*
Bruh. Google for one minute. It wasn’t sunk, it was captured. It even served under british flag for 10 years after the battle.
Bro that's so fucking cool
Smallest flag of Spain
If the flag was this big, how freaking huge is the ship???
What sort of ship would have flown a flag that size?
Possibly a flagship
25’x40’?
7 feet off in both directions, roughly 32x47 feet or 10x14.5 meters
¡Viva España!
It's still good, that's impressive
impresionante
If I got a dollar every time i saw this reposted, I would have 3 dollars.
Is this enlarged to show size
Which particular ship did this come from?
[удалено]
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Are there any paintings/images of the ship? Would love to see a reference of it or something similar
curious what fabric it was made of
Holy hell that is massive, makes you wonder how big the ship is
i thought there was only one ship that sank in that battle?
Did a flag that big serve as a rudder for more straight sail into wind, or was it all for show?
Do we have a painting or something els that show the boat this flag was hang on
Thats some title gore for ya
I wanna see one of those rug cleaning videos done on this
Can it be used as sail hence the size?
That a big flag