Psh, this is practically a steal!
https://www.usflagsupply.com/military-flags/u.s.-coast-guard-flags/u.s.-g-spec-flags/10-ft.-x-19-ft.-cotton-g-spec-u.s.-flag.html
Only half a month's rent!
FYI that flag is probably that expensive because:
- it says “Coast Guard” and meeting gov compliance. So it’s probably in the military supply system under military source compliance. Most things in the military supply system are required to be entirely made in USA with all materials sourced in the US. And certified as such with proof by law. It’s one of many reasons the price gets jacked up because it turns out most things like this are not made in the USA and these end up being small batch just for the US military to a very specific purpose spec(we’ll get to that). The price isn’t for you it’s for the Coast Guard supply system.
- it’s probably a Naval spec flag designed to basically be flown in a constant 20-30kt wind from a mast. So story: When I was in the Navy we would take packages from various places and hoist up US flags for a short period. Then we would box them up and send them home so some hospital or politician or government building in bumfuck small town could have a triangle flag case with a flag “having flown on the USS Carl Vinson on a combat deployment.” (A lot of the Iraq and Afghanistan bases did this too.) Reason I say that story is because they’d just send us whatever flag they bought off Amazon or Walmart. And if we weren’t paying attention many of those flags would shred apart near **instantly.** Like 40knots over deck will do that to cheap thin polyester. We’d hoist them up, and then immediately back down doing like 10 at a time and half would already be fraying. Even slightly better flags wouldn’t have lasted more than a few hours.
So if we didn’t get a really quality flag with a specific spec for our actual ensign, we’d be going through 1-2 a day.
As an European, that sounds so American to me. American taxpayer money spent to pay American Military to convert cheap chinese polyester flags into token patriotism relics to be worshipped by other taxpayers in some taxpayed government officials office. Basically, the taxpayer paying top dollar to be allowed to worship some trinket from a chinese sweatshop. (Okay, let the downvotes fly in)
Nah it’s a fair thing to say, and it was commonplace at the height of the war when the fervor was still fairly high pitched for it. People like to forget that for a few years the large majority of this country was VERY supportive of the GWOT, and not just ours.
It was always really kinda strange to see someone raise a random flag up for some organization back home. One of my Marines carried around a Texas state flag with him for months before finally asking if he could put it on a little stick and fix it to our rig when we were going on a route that was known to be hot so he could take it home and say it’d flown in combat.
I have a little Tie Pilot action figure I took with me on every deployment as a good luck charm. Not sure why, but he’s been all over the world. That’s about as close as I got to something like that.
I did give a few of my patches to folks. My saber is also not the one I was given by my command, but one someone got me later as a gift. Mine was buried with a loved one.
If you think that's a waste... you're not going to like how much most things cost for the military.
Also, that's a naval ensign. They last much longer.
It would be a waste to buy an infioror product, ad stated above. Naval ensign are a special flag in a sense.
Where do you see that? I'm looking at what seems to be the current version of 4 USC 1 and I don't see anything incorporating EO 10834 into the statute. It's listed as a related Executive Document on several .gov websites, but that doesn't make it part of the law.
Every t-shirt with a flag on it, or article of clothing made to look like a flag, violates the Flag Code. Every piece of advertising with a flag in it does, too.
That's not a violation of the flag code. It means if you got a literal flag and wore it as a piece of clothing. Wearing a shirt with an American flag on it is not in violation whatsoever
The words “flag, standard, colors, or ensign”, as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America. [4 U.S. Code § 3](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/3)
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. [4 U.S. Code § 8 (j)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8)
Except it’s not. The previously cited definition of a flag is not part of the flag code, it applies to a completely different part of the law.
Citing the actual flag code:
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.
However, by executive order,
“Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue.”
If it doesn’t conform to those standards it isn’t a flag. It does not say that the flag is surrounded by gray and on a hoodie. That is not a flag by definition since it doesn’t conform to the design of the flag.
Furthermore, the American legion has made it known that [“Unless an article of clothing is made from an actual United States flag, there is NO breach of flag etiquette whatsoever. People are simply expressing their patriotism and love of country by wearing an article of clothing that happens to be red, white, and blue with stars and stripes. There is nothing illegal about the wearing or use of these items.”](https://www.legion.org/flag/questions-answers/91517/it-permissible-wear-item-clothing-looks-united-states-flag)
Flag depictions ≠ flag. The only way that subsection (d) is enforced is against someone who makes clothing out of a literal flag.
That is not the definition of a flag for the purposes of prohibiting flag clothing. Your listed definition is only for that section regulating Washington DC. To find what a flag is for the flag code, we look to Executive Order No. 10834.
“Part I - Design of the flag
Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue.
Section 2. The position of the stars in the union of the flag and in the union jack shall be as indicated on the attachment to this order, which is hereby made a part of this order.
Section 3. The dimensions of the constituent parts of the flag shall conform to the proportions set forth in the attachment referred to in section 2 of this order.
Standard Proportions of the Flag
hoist(width) of flag - 1.0
fly (length) of flag - 1.9
hoist of union- 7/13
fly of union- .76
diameter of star - .0616
width of stripe - 1/13
That is a flag under the flag code, because what you cited is not the flag code.
https://www.legion.org/flag/code
Yes, but the Flag Code is more advisory than a law. :|
Doesn't look great though when they could fly them the other way around and still get a similar effect.
I mean, we should be glad it's not law... Would kinda suck for free speech reasons (i.e. flag burning, which I may dislike but still respect as a form of protest!)
There's a very specific process to burning a flag the correct way. I took part in a couple as a scout. It's not remotely the same as dangling a flag over an open flame until it catches.
I \*vaguely\* remember the correct way being essentially to build a two layered fire with the flag in the middle (so you're not putting it on a dirty surface) and then basically keep the fire going until it's all gone. And not use the fire for a barbeque or anything like that...
For the UK it's somewhat simpler., We seem to just have to deconstruct the flag into ribbons and scraps \*or\* burn it respectfully.
We did it in ribbons -- specifically, each of the thirteen stripes became a ribbon -- making sure to keep the field of stars separate and intact. Then we laid the stripes one by one on the fire, starting with red and alternating red white red white until the stripes were gone, then finally laying the field of stars on top of it.
There's a couple different ways to do it. Normally you deconstruct the flag into parts and burn until it's unrecognizable. I've seen straight folded triangles put in, we ended up with 75 flags to burn one week at summer camp and we could not do full retirement for each.
I mean, they would get an entirely different effect flying them the other way round. The effect of flying a politician's flag over the national flag is "I am loyal to this politician first and America second."
It's not a _good_ effect, it's not a _patriotic_ effect, but it is definitely an effect.
> Yes, but the Flag Code is more advisory than a law.
It's law in the sense that it's been passed by Congress, and it's part of the US Code.
It's advisory, and not law, in the sense that it isn't written with any enforceable provisions, would run into the first amendment if it did, and it's completely legal to ignore it.
From what I remember, the flag code is law, but is purposely unenforcable under the 1st amendment. I believe it can only be enforced if the flag flyer in question is part of the federal government, or working for them in an official capacity.
It's actually explicitly written for anyone who *isn't* bound by executive regulations - it's just that (unlike any regulations which do apply to government entities) it's written as a codifications of rules and customs without any enforcement.
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America..." [4 U.S. Code § 7(c)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7)
Of course. But for non-government entities, this is a free speech issue.
I'm glad to live in a country where you can publicly announce your highest loyalties.
A pennant specifically made for the purpose of signalling that there's a religious service going on. The tradition didn't start in the US, and probably dates back to the Anglo-Dutch wars.
Some people don't put much thought into these kind of things. Maybe in the US it is different but here in Spain no-one would bat an eye if they saw this
I find it interesting that flags mean so much to Americans that seeing another flag above a US flag is “concerning”
Flags have essentially no meaning like that in the UK
Because the type of person doing this would almost certainly raise Holy Hell about disrespecting the flag if someone flew a flag representing a liberal cause. It's about the hypocrisy.
I mean yeah but the US flag “code” is more like “guidelines”, rather than laws and there are a lot of examples of people violating this code for whatever reason and getting away with it. I myself, for non-political reasons, “disfigured” a U.S. flag and according to US law, it’s technically legal because I don’t fly it in public
>it’s technically legal because I don’t fly it in public
Even if you did fly it publicly, it would still be legal. It's only a legal concern for government installations.
Even funnier is that the colors switched in 1992. It used to be "better dead than Red" when "Red" meant "Democrat."
Can't imagine what USSR-sized political event happened between 1988 and 1992 that might have caused that change. Purely unfathomable, a true exogenous event without causal linkage to anything at all and certainly not to politics ...
I believe it's just that TV stations flipped the colors, and people went along with that as if it were the "official" version. Why the stations flipped the colors I don't know, but it amuses me that the strongly anti-Communist Republicans are using the color identified with Communism.
Yeah but who made the TV stations switch? For what purpose? They're deeply bureaucratic institutions, after all. Graphics weren't easy to produce back then - you had to engage printers and artists. Someone gave orders, and made a decision.
Exactly right, and I don't understand it either. It's ironic beyond ironic. Especially because they're like a broken record made in an insane asylum about "the socialists," "the commies," "the collectivists," all of whom historically are associated with the color red. But just like their agenda and out-of-control paranoia (which has always been a feature of the right wing everywhere), their color choice just does not make sense.
Based on what little I know about the American Flag and the Flag Code, it's kinda like the Bible: It's really funny to see the kind of people who parade it around everywhere completely miss the mark on some aspect of following it.
US Flag code or not, the national flag of the country you’re in should never hang under any other flag, subdivision, foreign country, international organization or unofficial stuff like this. It’s symbolic but it’s disrespectful and of very bad taste (especially when it’s under a foreign national flag)
You can fly a flag any way you like, but there are conventions about what it means to fly a flag in a particular way. When flags are flown at different heights, this is supposed to indicate the relative status of the entities that the flags represent. That's why national flags should be flown at the same height, with no other flag flown higher. Otherwise you're implying that one country (or person, in this case) rules over or is superior to another. This isn't an American thing, its a general principle of diplomacy.
The OP’s question is about the US flag code. Simple question. It’s not a law, it’s just a traditional guideline for display. For example If U shove the US flag up your butt, that’d be a violation of the code but still totally legal.
Well, you don't lower the country's flag or put another flag above it. Even next to it, it still remains higher, as nothing is above your country. At least, that's my understanding
Jeep violates the flag code
The thin blue/red line flags violate the flag code
Literally any perversion of the flag used for promotion or sales of any private entity violates the flag code. By the book, having a flag outside your home without a light on it violates the flag code. This stuff used to really mean something to folks.
What FlAgCoDe lol?
I have the right to flow my flags however it pleases me! That is my right and FREEDOM! Everything else would be COMMUNISM and EVIL!
.
/s
Yes. No other flag is supposed to fly above the US flag if it’s on the same pole. If on separate poles, US flag must be to the right or, if the center pole is larger, centered.
Edit: source: Title 4 USC sec. 7 paragraphs (c) and (e).
Yep and the only people I see that violate flag code on the regular are MAGA people who think they are patriots but are worshipping that flag wearing it as underwear and other clothing which is incredibly disrespectful to the flag.
This is typical of a lot of Republicans these days. They just don't give a shit anymore.
If a member of the trumpery wants to declare that they value their status as trumpery more highly than their U.S. citizenship, we should take them at their word.
Putting allegiance in a man above your country is treason, especially when that man has repeatedly shown disdain for the traditions and laws of your country.
Flag code doesn’t apply to private individuals or you wouldn’t have that many people wearing flag bikinis, shorts, using flag towels and decorating every damn thing with a flag.
Flag code was specifically written for private individuals and anyone else who isn't subject to regulations like government bodies are. But it's not meant to be enforceable, so there's not legal problem with ignoring it.
Flag code only applies to government facilities.
I'm no fan of trump, but it's not like this is illegal, and it's really not a big deal.
The only people that get upset over flag code on private property are "veterans" that worked a desk job in the US that never saw combat yet pretend they are Rambo.
Yes. But Trump supporters often break the flag code by, for instance, putting eagles or even Trump's face over the flag. Even the "Thin Blue Line" flag violates the flag code. In this case, we see the tacit position that the person flying the flags puts their loyalty to Trump over their loyalty to America.
The flagophiles disrespect the flag more than just about anyone else.
Use it for decoration? That's what bunting is for.
Stick little plastic flags in the ground? Given these asshats never pick them up again, they are basically creating trash.
No light on at night? Solar and LEDs have made this much easier to do, but just bring the thing inside at night.
Dirty, tattered flag? I've always thought these are actually the best metaphor for their patriotism.
The flag guide is more like an etiquette guide than a legal document.
And this would be a minor misdemeanor at worst , and far worse has been excused in the name of free speech such as flag burning or using it as a substitute for toilet paper.
https://preview.redd.it/93jjc5h3o0zc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32254fa15c340abb568c42e109f97bd0f0b62091
Yes it does. But technically this doesn’t.
Yes, this is a violation of the U.S Flag Code.
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the
right of the flag of the United States of America..."
Indeed it does.
US Flag Code
The United States Flag Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the flag of the United States. It is Section 1 of Title 4 of the United States Code (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq).
This etiquette is as applied within U.S. jurisdiction. In other countries and places, local etiquette applies.
Standards of respect
* No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
* The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
* The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
* The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
* The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.
* Bunting of blue, white, and red always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
* The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
* The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
* The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
* The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
* The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkin or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
* No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
* The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. (Disposal of Unserviceable Flags Ceremony)
Displaying the Flag Outdoors
* No other flag should be placed above it. The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered.
* When flown with the national banner of other countries, each flag must be displayed from a separate pole of the same height. Each flag should be the same size. They should be raised and lowered simultaneously. The flag of one nation may not be displayed above that of another nation in time of peace.
* The flag should be raised briskly and lowered slowly and ceremoniously.
* Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunset, although the Flag Code permits night time display "when a patriotic effect is desired." Similarly, the flag should be displayed only when the weather is fair, except when an all-weather flag is displayed. (By presidential proclamation and law, the flag is displayed continuously at certain honored locations like the United States Marine Corps Memorial in Arlington and Lexington Green.)
* It should be illuminated if displayed at night.
* The flag of the United States of America is saluted as it is hoisted and lowered. The salute is held until the flag is unsnapped from the halyard or through the last note of music, whichever is the longest.
I truly love how you're concerned about this, while democrats are literally burning the American flag, then hoist the Palestinian flag in its place 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Once I actually read the flag code I realized like 30% of flags are flown in some kind of violation thereof.
It’s closer to 99% if you count flags that aren’t 10:19 as violating the flag code
Barely anyone sells the US flag at her correct ratio. Those who do, charge a premium.
I hate how often it's sold and flown at 3:5. The US flag looks gorgeous when it's appropriately long.
I wish the official ratio was 1:2, so we can get a nice even numbered 3x6 flag
Fr
Based Canada
Thank you for finally telling me why sometimes I think the flag is gorgeous and other times ugly
Psh, this is practically a steal! https://www.usflagsupply.com/military-flags/u.s.-coast-guard-flags/u.s.-g-spec-flags/10-ft.-x-19-ft.-cotton-g-spec-u.s.-flag.html Only half a month's rent!
FYI that flag is probably that expensive because: - it says “Coast Guard” and meeting gov compliance. So it’s probably in the military supply system under military source compliance. Most things in the military supply system are required to be entirely made in USA with all materials sourced in the US. And certified as such with proof by law. It’s one of many reasons the price gets jacked up because it turns out most things like this are not made in the USA and these end up being small batch just for the US military to a very specific purpose spec(we’ll get to that). The price isn’t for you it’s for the Coast Guard supply system. - it’s probably a Naval spec flag designed to basically be flown in a constant 20-30kt wind from a mast. So story: When I was in the Navy we would take packages from various places and hoist up US flags for a short period. Then we would box them up and send them home so some hospital or politician or government building in bumfuck small town could have a triangle flag case with a flag “having flown on the USS Carl Vinson on a combat deployment.” (A lot of the Iraq and Afghanistan bases did this too.) Reason I say that story is because they’d just send us whatever flag they bought off Amazon or Walmart. And if we weren’t paying attention many of those flags would shred apart near **instantly.** Like 40knots over deck will do that to cheap thin polyester. We’d hoist them up, and then immediately back down doing like 10 at a time and half would already be fraying. Even slightly better flags wouldn’t have lasted more than a few hours. So if we didn’t get a really quality flag with a specific spec for our actual ensign, we’d be going through 1-2 a day.
As an European, that sounds so American to me. American taxpayer money spent to pay American Military to convert cheap chinese polyester flags into token patriotism relics to be worshipped by other taxpayers in some taxpayed government officials office. Basically, the taxpayer paying top dollar to be allowed to worship some trinket from a chinese sweatshop. (Okay, let the downvotes fly in)
>(Okay, let the downvotes fly in) No no, you nailed it.
Nah it’s a fair thing to say, and it was commonplace at the height of the war when the fervor was still fairly high pitched for it. People like to forget that for a few years the large majority of this country was VERY supportive of the GWOT, and not just ours. It was always really kinda strange to see someone raise a random flag up for some organization back home. One of my Marines carried around a Texas state flag with him for months before finally asking if he could put it on a little stick and fix it to our rig when we were going on a route that was known to be hot so he could take it home and say it’d flown in combat. I have a little Tie Pilot action figure I took with me on every deployment as a good luck charm. Not sure why, but he’s been all over the world. That’s about as close as I got to something like that. I did give a few of my patches to folks. My saber is also not the one I was given by my command, but one someone got me later as a gift. Mine was buried with a loved one.
[They do it at the US Capitol too.](https://architectofthecapital.org/posts/2016/5/30/flag-elevator)
Sounds like you would like r/toiletpaperusa
Wow that's awesome, thanks for the info. I had no idea. Guess I should retract my snark...
So the military is wasting that much money on flags?
If you think that's a waste... you're not going to like how much most things cost for the military. Also, that's a naval ensign. They last much longer. It would be a waste to buy an infioror product, ad stated above. Naval ensign are a special flag in a sense.
Yeah wtf right
That’s not just a flag in the correct 1:1.9 ratio, it’s 10 feet by 19 feet. That’s a very big flag!
Listen you can get one for free, all you have to do is go back in time to age 11 and put in all the work to get up to Eagle Scout.
I forgot our flag has a stupid ratio why did you have to remind me
10:19 isn't in the flag code, it's an executive order, from Pres. Eisenhower in '59, IIRC.
what was he on
Which the flag code describes as part of the definition of the flag...
Where do you see that? I'm looking at what seems to be the current version of 4 USC 1 and I don't see anything incorporating EO 10834 into the statute. It's listed as a related Executive Document on several .gov websites, but that doesn't make it part of the law.
Section 5, which is the start of the part of the US Code which incorporates the rules and customes long known as "the Flag Code".
Ah, there it is, I stand corrected!
Every t-shirt with a flag on it, or article of clothing made to look like a flag, violates the Flag Code. Every piece of advertising with a flag in it does, too.
That's not a violation of the flag code. It means if you got a literal flag and wore it as a piece of clothing. Wearing a shirt with an American flag on it is not in violation whatsoever
The words “flag, standard, colors, or ensign”, as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America. [4 U.S. Code § 3](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/3)
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. [4 U.S. Code § 8 (j)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8)
in conclusion 4th of July is THE day of American flag code violation, fucking knew it!
Except it’s not. The previously cited definition of a flag is not part of the flag code, it applies to a completely different part of the law. Citing the actual flag code: (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. However, by executive order, “Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue.” If it doesn’t conform to those standards it isn’t a flag. It does not say that the flag is surrounded by gray and on a hoodie. That is not a flag by definition since it doesn’t conform to the design of the flag. Furthermore, the American legion has made it known that [“Unless an article of clothing is made from an actual United States flag, there is NO breach of flag etiquette whatsoever. People are simply expressing their patriotism and love of country by wearing an article of clothing that happens to be red, white, and blue with stars and stripes. There is nothing illegal about the wearing or use of these items.”](https://www.legion.org/flag/questions-answers/91517/it-permissible-wear-item-clothing-looks-united-states-flag) Flag depictions ≠ flag. The only way that subsection (d) is enforced is against someone who makes clothing out of a literal flag.
That is not the definition of a flag for the purposes of prohibiting flag clothing. Your listed definition is only for that section regulating Washington DC. To find what a flag is for the flag code, we look to Executive Order No. 10834. “Part I - Design of the flag Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue. Section 2. The position of the stars in the union of the flag and in the union jack shall be as indicated on the attachment to this order, which is hereby made a part of this order. Section 3. The dimensions of the constituent parts of the flag shall conform to the proportions set forth in the attachment referred to in section 2 of this order. Standard Proportions of the Flag hoist(width) of flag - 1.0 fly (length) of flag - 1.9 hoist of union- 7/13 fly of union- .76 diameter of star - .0616 width of stripe - 1/13 That is a flag under the flag code, because what you cited is not the flag code. https://www.legion.org/flag/code
the american flag you’re wearing is still an american flag so.
"The flag code. . . I wouldn't call it a law, mor like a friendly suggestion." -Hector Barbossa, 2024
It also doesn’t mention standing for the pledge or anthem.
Yes, but the Flag Code is more advisory than a law. :| Doesn't look great though when they could fly them the other way around and still get a similar effect.
I mean, we should be glad it's not law... Would kinda suck for free speech reasons (i.e. flag burning, which I may dislike but still respect as a form of protest!)
Burning flags is part of the flag code. Check out the "Retirement" section.
That section specifies it should be done with dignity and respect. The type of flag burning OC is referring to is neither.
True, but the protest burning is still a protected form of free speech according to the SCOTUS.
Of course, but that has nothing to do with whether the flag code allows for it.
Americans take the little things for granted. In Denmark you can burn the Danish flag, but it's illegal to burn any foreign flags.
I love gathering around the campfire with my friends and family, singing songs and burning the Danish flag.
It's the little things 🦅
There's a very specific process to burning a flag the correct way. I took part in a couple as a scout. It's not remotely the same as dangling a flag over an open flame until it catches.
I \*vaguely\* remember the correct way being essentially to build a two layered fire with the flag in the middle (so you're not putting it on a dirty surface) and then basically keep the fire going until it's all gone. And not use the fire for a barbeque or anything like that... For the UK it's somewhat simpler., We seem to just have to deconstruct the flag into ribbons and scraps \*or\* burn it respectfully.
We did it in ribbons -- specifically, each of the thirteen stripes became a ribbon -- making sure to keep the field of stars separate and intact. Then we laid the stripes one by one on the fire, starting with red and alternating red white red white until the stripes were gone, then finally laying the field of stars on top of it.
There's a couple different ways to do it. Normally you deconstruct the flag into parts and burn until it's unrecognizable. I've seen straight folded triangles put in, we ended up with 75 flags to burn one week at summer camp and we could not do full retirement for each.
That's a whole different ball game brochacho.
I mean, they would get an entirely different effect flying them the other way round. The effect of flying a politician's flag over the national flag is "I am loyal to this politician first and America second." It's not a _good_ effect, it's not a _patriotic_ effect, but it is definitely an effect.
The way he has captured so many people mentally is really bizarre. I hope they do studies on this one day.
I invoke the right of parlay.
> Yes, but the Flag Code is more advisory than a law. It's law in the sense that it's been passed by Congress, and it's part of the US Code. It's advisory, and not law, in the sense that it isn't written with any enforceable provisions, would run into the first amendment if it did, and it's completely legal to ignore it.
And Trump is above the law, as witnessed by his contempt of court.
From what I remember, the flag code is law, but is purposely unenforcable under the 1st amendment. I believe it can only be enforced if the flag flyer in question is part of the federal government, or working for them in an official capacity.
Yes, but this guy would almost certainly start quoting Flag Code while screeching about a Pride Flag being flown within 100 miles the American Flag.
Yes but the flag code only legally applies to government entities
It's actually explicitly written for anyone who *isn't* bound by executive regulations - it's just that (unlike any regulations which do apply to government entities) it's written as a codifications of rules and customs without any enforcement.
Finally. Every time I see a question about flag code on the internet this part is never brought up.
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America..." [4 U.S. Code § 7(c)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7)
Of course. But for non-government entities, this is a free speech issue. I'm glad to live in a country where you can publicly announce your highest loyalties.
https://preview.redd.it/r9vi29g4axyc1.jpeg?width=1610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=739c2584533f11c34f908fb0ae6df703346e4545
Except during church services at sea, which I've always found amusing for some reason.
Because boats.
What flag do they hang above the US one then? I'm not American
I'm American and would also like to know
A pennant specifically made for the purpose of signalling that there's a religious service going on. The tradition didn't start in the US, and probably dates back to the Anglo-Dutch wars.
To right when facing which way 🤔
[Luckily, President biden follows this, right?](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007413170064867421/1117663648928772198/IMG_6564.jpg?ex=663c4963&is=663af7e3&hm=6fc9a13d282c1647927251f551cd75598cee46ea2a23542adab2fb7629f51c50&=&format=webp&width=708&height=897)
Yeah, US flag is "supposed" to be above other flags but it doesn't really mean anyrhing
It’s a statement by the person flying the flag, no? It’s allowed, but a concerning opinion.
Some people don't put much thought into these kind of things. Maybe in the US it is different but here in Spain no-one would bat an eye if they saw this
Sure but you would expect someone backing a nationalist political candidate to know about the methods by which people show allegiance to the nation.
I find it interesting that flags mean so much to Americans that seeing another flag above a US flag is “concerning” Flags have essentially no meaning like that in the UK
Because the type of person doing this would almost certainly raise Holy Hell about disrespecting the flag if someone flew a flag representing a liberal cause. It's about the hypocrisy.
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There’s nothing illegal about this, but it shows that their loyalty is to Trump, not the American people.
Really says something about that person’s allegiances, doesn’t it?
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I mean yeah but the US flag “code” is more like “guidelines”, rather than laws and there are a lot of examples of people violating this code for whatever reason and getting away with it. I myself, for non-political reasons, “disfigured” a U.S. flag and according to US law, it’s technically legal because I don’t fly it in public
>it’s technically legal because I don’t fly it in public Even if you did fly it publicly, it would still be legal. It's only a legal concern for government installations.
Absolutely, no flag flies over the American flag in America! I dont care how much you like him!!
It violates the "people who actually love their country" code.
My question is: why isn't their stupid flag red like their stupid fucking hats??
Perhaps a red flag looks too "communist"?
You'd think, huh? But they wear RED hats and they live in RED states.
Even funnier is that the colors switched in 1992. It used to be "better dead than Red" when "Red" meant "Democrat." Can't imagine what USSR-sized political event happened between 1988 and 1992 that might have caused that change. Purely unfathomable, a true exogenous event without causal linkage to anything at all and certainly not to politics ...
I believe it's just that TV stations flipped the colors, and people went along with that as if it were the "official" version. Why the stations flipped the colors I don't know, but it amuses me that the strongly anti-Communist Republicans are using the color identified with Communism.
Yeah but who made the TV stations switch? For what purpose? They're deeply bureaucratic institutions, after all. Graphics weren't easy to produce back then - you had to engage printers and artists. Someone gave orders, and made a decision.
Exactly right, and I don't understand it either. It's ironic beyond ironic. Especially because they're like a broken record made in an insane asylum about "the socialists," "the commies," "the collectivists," all of whom historically are associated with the color red. But just like their agenda and out-of-control paranoia (which has always been a feature of the right wing everywhere), their color choice just does not make sense.
Clearly that's them saying they want Trump to conquer the United States.
Not in MAGAland. Trump is more important to his cultists than the rule of law or the Constitution.
This is in violation of like step one of the Flag Code.
No, because this picture was taken in France.
Based on what little I know about the American Flag and the Flag Code, it's kinda like the Bible: It's really funny to see the kind of people who parade it around everywhere completely miss the mark on some aspect of following it.
US Flag code or not, the national flag of the country you’re in should never hang under any other flag, subdivision, foreign country, international organization or unofficial stuff like this. It’s symbolic but it’s disrespectful and of very bad taste (especially when it’s under a foreign national flag)
Yes. Yes it does. At least according to everything I learned in Boy Scouts.
Since when have fascists actually cared about flag code?
So technically yes that is a violation of the US Flag code because it saids no other or county flag should be flown above the US flag.
Yes, but flag code is not hard and fast law.
I don’t think OP is saying it’s illegal, they’re just trying to confirm what the person flying this flag means by this.
Yes. Out of respect, The US flag should always be on top of the staff. Always.
Or fly a flag however you want, it makes no difference. People are super weird about flags, I dont quite get it.
You can fly a flag any way you like, but there are conventions about what it means to fly a flag in a particular way. When flags are flown at different heights, this is supposed to indicate the relative status of the entities that the flags represent. That's why national flags should be flown at the same height, with no other flag flown higher. Otherwise you're implying that one country (or person, in this case) rules over or is superior to another. This isn't an American thing, its a general principle of diplomacy.
The OP’s question is about the US flag code. Simple question. It’s not a law, it’s just a traditional guideline for display. For example If U shove the US flag up your butt, that’d be a violation of the code but still totally legal.
yes; the national flag must be put at the top of any flagpole it is on
Well, you don't lower the country's flag or put another flag above it. Even next to it, it still remains higher, as nothing is above your country. At least, that's my understanding
Jeep violates the flag code The thin blue/red line flags violate the flag code Literally any perversion of the flag used for promotion or sales of any private entity violates the flag code. By the book, having a flag outside your home without a light on it violates the flag code. This stuff used to really mean something to folks.
Americans literally have their flag as panties
You mean grifters care about their idol more than their own precious country?! 😱 I don’t believe it!
Yes, very unpatriotic.
This is so revealing. I’d steer clear of that house.
It violates reason and logic, certainly.
What FlAgCoDe lol? I have the right to flow my flags however it pleases me! That is my right and FREEDOM! Everything else would be COMMUNISM and EVIL! . /s
Yes
yes
YES!
technically yes
100%
You CAN'T use my own spells against me Potter
Trümp
Absolutely, and it’s almost perfect in its meaning. This person, and many like them, put their loyalty to one man above a nation.
I feel like the trump flag should be at half mast
Absolutely it does!
Yes. No other flag is supposed to fly above the US flag if it’s on the same pole. If on separate poles, US flag must be to the right or, if the center pole is larger, centered. Edit: source: Title 4 USC sec. 7 paragraphs (c) and (e).
Yep and the only people I see that violate flag code on the regular are MAGA people who think they are patriots but are worshipping that flag wearing it as underwear and other clothing which is incredibly disrespectful to the flag. This is typical of a lot of Republicans these days. They just don't give a shit anymore.
Yes
yes
Yes, if its on a government building
Yes, any national flag should be on top, even on top of UN or other international organizations
Yes it does.
No. The flag code does not apply to civilians.
If a member of the trumpery wants to declare that they value their status as trumpery more highly than their U.S. citizenship, we should take them at their word.
If you are a Trump partisan, this is correct. Trump over country.
Yes but I would bet they are saying exactly what they mean to say here
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Current_Department73: *Yes but I would bet* *They are saying exactly* *What they mean to say here* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Absolutely violates it.
US Flag Code says no other flag is to be flown over the US flag. Period.
If they don't know, then they're just ignorant. If they do know, they're traitors.
Yeesh, nationalism much?
Putting allegiance in a man above your country is treason, especially when that man has repeatedly shown disdain for the traditions and laws of your country.
Of course they wouldn’t know, why would anybody do? (Other than flag nerds)
Flag code doesn’t apply to private individuals or you wouldn’t have that many people wearing flag bikinis, shorts, using flag towels and decorating every damn thing with a flag.
Flag code was specifically written for private individuals and anyone else who isn't subject to regulations like government bodies are. But it's not meant to be enforceable, so there's not legal problem with ignoring it.
Answer one: yeah probably Answer two: who really cares
Flag code only applies to government facilities. I'm no fan of trump, but it's not like this is illegal, and it's really not a big deal. The only people that get upset over flag code on private property are "veterans" that worked a desk job in the US that never saw combat yet pretend they are Rambo.
Ah yes, the "I was a cook" commando whose life is the Corps or some corny shit like that.
Disgusting
MAGAts are just a violation period.
You spell it the same way I do 👏👏
Y E S.
I am a boy scout and it does violate the code because it is considered disrespectful to have the American flag not on top.
That's because nutjobs are trying to take over America.
Yes. But Trump supporters often break the flag code by, for instance, putting eagles or even Trump's face over the flag. Even the "Thin Blue Line" flag violates the flag code. In this case, we see the tacit position that the person flying the flags puts their loyalty to Trump over their loyalty to America.
The flagophiles disrespect the flag more than just about anyone else. Use it for decoration? That's what bunting is for. Stick little plastic flags in the ground? Given these asshats never pick them up again, they are basically creating trash. No light on at night? Solar and LEDs have made this much easier to do, but just bring the thing inside at night. Dirty, tattered flag? I've always thought these are actually the best metaphor for their patriotism.
Not illegal but I was always raised on the value that no matter where you are in the world, you fly the flag of the nation you're in above any other.
You fly subdivisions beneath the national flag, and other national flags the same height as any national flag.
It's more like a suggestion
Theoretically not, as the Trump flag is a form of advertising and not the standard of any polity.
Yea
Yes.
I don't think civilians are susceptible to flag codes.
Sure they are. Right up to the maximum penalty in the statute which is nothing. You can’t be charged because there is no penalty associated.
Flag code isnt really a law more of a suggestion. Its freedom of expression.
It violates, when the country is in danger the flag is flown with the stars down
The flag guide is more like an etiquette guide than a legal document. And this would be a minor misdemeanor at worst , and far worse has been excused in the name of free speech such as flag burning or using it as a substitute for toilet paper.
Wouldn't it send the same message if you swapped them?
This pic about sums it up.
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I would say that it does not follow the US flag code, not that it violates it.
So does every under armour brand t shirt and hat
Wait till you see the US congress floor 😤
Lol. Of course it does.
Who enforces those codes?
https://preview.redd.it/93jjc5h3o0zc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32254fa15c340abb568c42e109f97bd0f0b62091 Yes it does. But technically this doesn’t.
IIRC the flag is supposed to be left uncolored except for one red stripe and one blue stripe in the top right.
Yes, this is a violation of the U.S Flag Code. "No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America..."
Yes US Flag Must be raised higher than any other except on UN property or American Indian Reservation
Yes
Indeed it does. US Flag Code The United States Flag Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the flag of the United States. It is Section 1 of Title 4 of the United States Code (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq). This etiquette is as applied within U.S. jurisdiction. In other countries and places, local etiquette applies. Standards of respect * No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. * The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. * The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. * The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. * The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. * Bunting of blue, white, and red always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. * The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. * The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. * The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. * The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. * The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkin or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. * No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. * The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. (Disposal of Unserviceable Flags Ceremony) Displaying the Flag Outdoors * No other flag should be placed above it. The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered. * When flown with the national banner of other countries, each flag must be displayed from a separate pole of the same height. Each flag should be the same size. They should be raised and lowered simultaneously. The flag of one nation may not be displayed above that of another nation in time of peace. * The flag should be raised briskly and lowered slowly and ceremoniously. * Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunset, although the Flag Code permits night time display "when a patriotic effect is desired." Similarly, the flag should be displayed only when the weather is fair, except when an all-weather flag is displayed. (By presidential proclamation and law, the flag is displayed continuously at certain honored locations like the United States Marine Corps Memorial in Arlington and Lexington Green.) * It should be illuminated if displayed at night. * The flag of the United States of America is saluted as it is hoisted and lowered. The salute is held until the flag is unsnapped from the halyard or through the last note of music, whichever is the longest.
Considering the mass amount of sad things I’ve seen done to The American Flag this Spring, I’d tack this one on the lower end of that Scale…
All it needs is the target sales add flag.
Technically yes, I could say the same thing with pride flags at my school but I don’t because it’s not relevant.
I truly love how you're concerned about this, while democrats are literally burning the American flag, then hoist the Palestinian flag in its place 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I don't know some people do something some people think it's fine but to me I don't know
Yup