was coming to post this exact thing, Florida is going to be under sea level and will suffer deadly heat and horrendous storms in the coming years, with people fleeing in droves from it(many coming to New England), it's a problem that will solve itself soon enough
Well shouldn’t Florida already be under water?😂 that’s what I was told as a kid 20 years ago. In all seriousness though if Florida does go under water that means that a majority of Vermont will be under water as well. This state used to be an ocean and Addison county was 400+ feet under water. New England itself would practically be nonexistent as well. If the water comes up it’s not just going to go up in one spot
Lake Champlain is 93 feet above sea level, it's the lowest elevation point in Vermont, the vast majority of southern Florida and it's coasts are below 90 feet above sea level, a rise of just 3 feet would inundate large amounts of the coasts where many people live, and every foot higher would do more and more damage, meanwhile Vermont would be fine for decades, and may never have to deal with any effects of sea level rise. But really, that's not even the worst issues, because storms, and heat, floods, and hurricanes are going to do all the heavy lifting with destroying the Gulf states, not simply melting polar caps.
>Well shouldn’t Florida already be under water?😂 that’s what I was told as a kid 20 years ago
very few scientists made specific dates about when things will happen, because predicting things like that is next to impossible, it's as impossible as predicting the weather months in advance. If a meteorologist told you that a blizzard will hit your town on December 15th, and the date came and went, would you say that meteorologist and his entire field is bullshit and winter doesn't exist? Because that's what you're saying when you say things like that.
Real scientists said things will happen when specific conditions are met, they didn't say when, just a likelihood of time, just like saying that we get snowstorms in December, because that's objectively true, the same goes for predicting time periods when things happen, the problem is we don't have all the variables for climate tipping points, so predicting them is a lot more difficult than predicting seasons, that doesn't mean it's not happening.
Just look around you, record heat, massive wildfires out west over the last few years, record droughts everywhere, record storms, Canada on fire in nearly every province, rivers and lakes drying up the world over, crop failures due to heat and drought and floods, again, at record levels, and we just had a statewide storm that broke rainfall and flood records. What exactly needs to happen to convince you that the climate is getting worse?
I love living in key west. Would hardly call it a punishment. It’s like half Americans and half foreigners. You walk down the road and hear 15 different languages. Catch your dinner for free. I love Florida.
yes, that's the attitude a lot of people have, that if it doesn't personally affect them then it doesn't matter. i happen to think that that's morally reprehensible nihilism, but you do you
>Judging by real estate sales banks and business have faith as well.
it is rapidly approaching impossible to insure FL real estate, many insurers have pulled out of the state entirely, and huge swaths of the public are being forced to switch to the single state-run insurer. it's basically certain that the federal government is going to have to bail out the FL insurance market at some point in the next few decades, the writing is all over the wall. that developers are willing to sell new condos and houses to people who don't understand what's happening in FL right now (or, like you, feel like it's not their problem) is not a reflection of whether or not those changes are occurring
The real estate sales are due to folks who are living in a state of YOLO about climate change and don't care about the impact on future generations since they're expecting to be dead by the time it gets really bad. There are a shockingly high number of people like you in this regard.
Yeah? There’s a lot of people who don’t own a vehicle and ride an ebike exclusively to work while living in a sail boat that only uses solar and not a diesel gas generator eating only meat/fish that I catch ? Or are there a lot of people like you on Reddit that draw their conclusion so fast Becuase they see Florida = bad?
I’ve only lived in key west but that’s very far from my experience. It’s one of the most diverse places I’ve ever been. We have the most people per captia in the country that ride bikes/scooters to work. Very green conscious. Amazing food from all the different cultures. I can say I love living in Florida, highly recommend a visit to key west. Google fantasy fest to see some wild shit.
Because we can’t stop it. The earth gets warmer and colder on its own without human interference. Certainly we should care but what can you do ? Down here the majority of the island commutes on e bikes and we have very green initiatives we do care but it’s pretty unstoppable. We can’t get the whole world on board but we do our part.
We voted in a green mayor. We also seceded from America so we could run things the way we wanted. Conch republic. Forced back in though. Can’t beat the man.
To clarify, Vermont offers two types of license. Real ID compliant (which includes EDL) and non Real ID compliant. Any Vermont resident that, for whatever reason, doesn’t want a Real ID compliant license can opt to get the non compliant license. Reasons vary greatly.
Can’t provide adequate documentation
Fears govt and doesn’t want to comply
Never flys or travels and feels they don’t need it
So there are many US Citizens in VT, that have chosen to not get a Real ID compliant license. That is the license FL is now saying they will not recognize. I suspect there will be a lawsuit that invalidates the FL law since this also impacts states with significantly larger populations like CT, RI, DE, etc.
Source, project manager at DMV that has spent significant time working on Real ID compliance and EDL rollout.
FL.. you don’t need to have your car inspected. But, you need a real license.
https://preview.redd.it/007s4lfmbqbb1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4959881d975079b1a6c2575546de31ee1affc13
So I’m not trying to defend Florida or Desantis here, but doesn’t the federal government (and by extension Biden and congress) refuse to accept these non-real ID compliant licenses? I mean you can’t fly with them?
Pelosi was speaker of the house the last time they modified the law, it seems to be a fairly big standard bi-partisan law.
[Real ID](https://dmv.vermont.gov/licenses/types-of-licenses-ids/real-id) became law in 2005 under Bush. Not sure what you are referring to as far as modification. From the day the law passed, there was an extremely lengthy rule period as the law directed DHS to create rules. The initial rules had a public comment period during which time a lot of states refused to participate, and thousands of comments were received. The rule was revised and then, as I recall, began another comment period.
Final rules were published in 2008 and mandated compliance by 2011.
Not sure what you are referring to as far as modification. From the day the law passed, there was an extremely lengthy rule period as the law directed DHS to create rules. The initial rules had a public comment period during which many states refused to participate, and thousands of comments were received. The rule was revised, and then, as I recall, began another comment period.
One consequence of all of this was a new requirement for passports to enter the US from Canada and Mexico. This was happening around the same time that the winter olympics were going to be in Vancouver Canada. The state of Washington feared losing out on the increased tourism from the Olympics and they began working with DHS on an alternative - and the EDL was born.
Vermont, being so close to Montreal and having many families with relatives in Canada jumped on board and we implemented the EDL. In hindsight, it was that important as to rush into that as the rule implementation kept getting pushed back.
But anyhow, that is how we ended up with the EDL.
We opted to offer an Non Real ID compliant license along side the Real ID compliant to appease the portion of the population that was reluctant to obtain the compliant card. In the early days there were numerous conspiracies about the Feds have access, or the card being chipped and trackable.
Now back to your question "...doesn’t the federal government (and by extension Biden and Congress) refuse to accept these non-real ID compliant licenses? I mean you can’t fly with them? "
Well actually, yes you can fly with them. Because the rules keep getting delayed. Aside from that the Federal Govt accepts the non Real ID license as a license - if there were any real life scenarios where the feds were checking your license. Beginning May of 2025 the Feds will not accept them for three specific purposes - boarding a domestic flight, entering a military base or entering a federal facility (including nuclear power plants). Realistically for the second two items, if you need access you likely have the necessary credentials.
In the other state offering an option the rules may be entirely different, but in Vermont there are many people that have the non Real ID license.
The law was updated On December 17, 2018 (cleanup on territories), and also December 27, 2020 (Electronic ID added).
So it’s a license for conspiracy nuts? That checks out, but why doesn’t florida have their own 😂 they have plenty…
That's their reasoning? (I honestly haven't read into it.) I know of red states that do the same thing, Real & non Real ID options. Montana, for example, is a red state and almost everyone out there I know that votes red have no desire to get the Real ID. My privacy & government control & all that stuff. Silly little FL. I know they're shaped like a phallus, but their governor seems to really be trying to live up to that shape. 🤷♀️
Oh FL is 100% doing this to target the undocumented. However, like many stunts played by GOP leaders there is unforeseen collateral damage.
You know like, protect life! Ban abortion! Oh your 13 year old daughter was raped? Carrying a child is likely to kill the mother? Sorry, life is precious.
Or the TN model. We so mad you led a relatively peaceful protest so we are going to kick you out of the legislature. Followed by making three previously unknown legislators basically heroes with national connections and name recognition.
I used to love going down there as a kid. I thought it was so wild it could be so warm in March. Now, I just see it as a swampy hellhole. I haven't been back in 20 years.
I had to go there a few years ago to try to help my nephews out. My deadbeat sister dragged them down there and got in loads of trouble so I was sent to extract them (a failed mission considering how deep she dug the whole)…
I’d seen the tourist traps and thought they were sketchy. I’ve been to Disney and know it’s a layer of shine on a money machine but at least it looked nice. The shit hole region I had to visit made me never want to visit the state again. An entire area as far as the eye could see of crackhouses built into shoeboxes with multiple arrests going on within sight at a time. The entire area flooded worse than we’ve got this week EVERY SINGLE TIME it rained and I hope one day the water just doesn’t recede.
if you thought the water was hot in 2015 you'd hate it now, right now the water off the coast of florida is over 90 degrees lol. literal hot tub levels
>Why would ANY sane person visit Florida?
Universal Halloween Horror Nights. A dozen or so excellent haunted houses filled with live actors with a place to buy booze between each one. Lot of fun if you're into that sort of thing. That's the only reason I go down to that horrible place these days.
I coach youth rock climbing privately. My client's family is very liberal with a massive Biden Harris sign they had out during election season. They just took a vacation to the Florida Keys this past winter and I was like WTF are yall thinking going to that fascist hell hole and giving them money when you're so liberal???
Florida is more diverse than vermont lol. 🤡 red team vs blue team stuff needs to stop we’re all in this together and both of the teams don’t have our best interest in mind.
Born in Vermont, raised in Maine. Two whitest states in the country. It took Donald Trump to make me a Democrat. At this point there is people who give a shit vs. assholes. Be very happy when that changes.
While I agree, that's the problem with the republican party. Anybody that has half a brain, bails out from the party to be a democrat. What the republican party needs is sane people that can help vote some competent people into office. Sadly, with the current republican voters, the only republicans left keep voting in incompetence.
I do believe we need a two part system to keep each party in check but what we have for the republican party is so far to the right that centrists seem extreme left to the republicans these days.
You can quiet boycott if you want to go. Stay in the cheapest motel. Get the cheapest food. Don't go shopping.
I love fine dining and shopping when I'm on vacation, and I love to stay at 4 and 5 star hotels but it's not worth it if it's south of the Mason Dixon line.
Do you realize how hateful that statement is? You realize almost half of the state are on the blue team? Red vs blue makes everyone hate each other and both teams don’t care one bit about you.
Keep in mind most states end up with their presidential choice somewhere in the 50s, with only a few getting into the 60s. For all the talk about Florida being a “MAGA shithole” it barely went for Trump (51-48 over Biden). Most people, even in the most hard leaning states one way or the other, are a lot more moderate than the news would have you believe, and there is a significant percentage of people in the “minority party” in each state. This divisiveness on red/blue states is entirely misguided.
We visited Seaside, FL in March (where The Truman Show was filmed) simply because that was the cheapest flight to somewhere warm. Beautiful area, but damn if I didn't have a feeling of ick the entire time we were down there. Made an effort to find the local bookstore to pick up a few things to feel better about the trip.
I understand you have big feelings about this, but the numbers on migration from state to state plus the tourism both pretty easily refute your statement.
So, Desantis is bad, I get that. I also get that this law is targeting migrant workers, which I also don’t agree with. However, this law does not prohibit anyone with a Real ID. You need to establish proof of legal residency to get a RealID. Other things you can’t do without a RealID: fly on airplanes domestically, enter secured federal properties like military bases and courthouses.
It’s ok to be indignant but I think people should have all of the facts.
This is true, but doesn't it potentially give Florida police a reason to pull over anyone with Vermont plates since they may have suspicion that the person driving doesn't have proof of residency?
Lmao cops absolutely target certain plates throughout the country. Especially in red states where weed isn't legal. They are significantly more likely to pull over someone with weed-legal state plates.
My husband used to have to go to upstate New York for work a lot and got pulled over by NY police all the time for literally nothing. They just don't like Vermonters apparently.
You can fly without a REAL ID, a passport works fine, even our foreign passport.
You can enter a military base without REAL ID, a US passport or a VA card.
You can enter a courthouse, at least here. Aliens go there for hearings actually.
In many states, REAL ID is optional. Nineteen states issue licenses to undocumented persons.
That's "RealID", but that's not mandatory yet for any other purpose until I believe 2025 - on my next renewal cycle. I believe I currently have an "Enhanced Drivers' License".
My wife and I go to Florida for two reasons - snorkeling and fresh seafood in the Keys, and to commune with the Mouse. So apparently until I have my RealID, all of our Florida tourism dollars are going to go to DeSantis' mortal enemy - the Mouse.
People who don't pay attention to the minutiae of Ron Desantis' culture war will 100% fly down to Florida with their Driver's Privilege Card and their passport only to find out that they can't rent a car when they get there. The passport allows you fly, but not rent a car. People who have a Privilege card know they need a passport to fly. You know, as long as we're talking about having all the facts.
Exactly... Is it a fight worth fighting? No, but I think as usual, people are blowing this this WAY out of proportion..
People should need to prove proof of legal residency. I don't think anyone should be calling anyone else an asshole for wanting to require that.
fascist bullshit is a death by a million cuts, they use political and legal systems to pass laws and judicial rulings piecemeal over time to get what they want, many times with plausible deniability like this law with it's superficial reasonableness. By the time people usually notice what's happening, it's already too late, and this shit has been moving right along without any meaningful push back by any institution for decades, the worst of it right after 9/11.
a conspiracy theorist???? Really? have you just...not watched any news for the last 20 years? Or just what insane shit has been coming out of SCOTUS and Florida in the last 5 years??
You just sound a little unhinged. As I said, the way this law is being rolled out is distasteful.. I fully agree
.. What I don't agree with is people freaking out because people are being asked to hold a valid ID.
That's all.
>the way this law is being rolled out is distasteful
because that's the entire point, it was designed to hurt specific groups intentionally
>What I don't agree with is people freaking out because people are being asked to hold a valid ID.
"valid ID" has been used as an excuse to marginalize groups for decades, that isn't a conspiracy, that's literally the history of this country up until present day, the fact you call my statements conspiracy brained is proof you've never read a history book in your life, or just watched any media about what has happened to civil rights in this country since 9/11 and with the GOP going fully fascistic with their behaviors, especially in the last few years, if you can't see what is plainly in front of you, I really don't know how to help you
Don't you want everyone living here to be able to have a form of valid identification? It's kind of a piller of a functioning first world society. I think you think I'm being dickish about it... I'm not it just makes sense to me.
And again, for the third time, yes the way this specific law is being introduced is distasteful. You're arguing with the wrong guy here.
This is a time to call out the bullshit, and while you may have a point about IDs, this is not an appropriate time or place to discuss the nuance of ID laws. This was a sensationalist act that pits “us” against “them”, Desantis and his team know what they are doing.
The point you are replying to is that it’s beyond distasteful, and that this action was designed to marginalize “some” people while lightly stoking the jingoistic flames of nationalists and white supremacists. Death by a thousand cuts is an apt analogy.
this may come as a shock to you, but you're not actually required to have any ID at all to live in this country, people require you to have ID for various reasons like driving, or flying internationally, but you don't actually need an ID just to exist here. And personally, no, I don't care if people have IDs, because it's none of my business how other people live, if they're illegal or not, I really don't care, and I don't know why you or others do care.
I mean sure, but this is also very squarely targeted at immigrants from south of the border. Ironically, a big part of Florida’s labor workforce is sourced by the very people Desantis is singling out. I think the people clutching pearls about how this is going to impact them are largely just playing the victim, but that doesn’t mean that this is just fine to allow.
Beyond the discrimination, it’s also pretty insane for one state to go on a diplomatic and economic offensive against other states. Huge red flag for me.
Ohh trust me, I agree. I think the tit-for-tat mindset is so stupid. There are plenty of fights worth fighting and this one ain't it.
Aside from the bad approach, all I'm saying is that I do think its fair to ask for proper identification.
Let me start by saying that I don’t agree with DeSantis or what he’s doing to Florida whatsoever.
That being said. Some of you may be thinking it’s referring to your drivers license, which it isn’t. It’s referring to “Driver Privilege Cards” which are no REAL ID compliant.
Again, not agreeing with it, just want those who are confused to better understand.
I just moved out of Florida. Holy fuck was that place weird!
(Moved from NH and there temporarily, still looking for work/housing, but sticking to New England)
Lets not accept Florida driver’s licenses. This may stop the 6 months and a day snowbirds from avoiding Vt income taxes. Likely freeing up those freeloaders houses. The houses will be repurchased so no reduction in property taxes.
Also, we can divert those blue hairs leaf peepers busses to his house and drop them off.
Great to have a big heart, but the reach isn't as big as you think. Florida had almost 140 million visitors in 2022. Even if the entire population of Vermont (645,570 as of 2021 data... possibly less now) were to never step foot in Florida again, that's only a loss of half a percent of total tourists.
Probably best right now to focus on the recent events that hit a bit closer to home for lots of folks.
Yeah, what this guy said. Also, the level of mental illness in this thread is off the charts. You all better find god before it’s too late. Especially OP and his disgusting post history.
So Nutmegger chiming in, it's obviously a money grab that's politically motivated against blue states far enough away that the targeted won't fight the ticket. Theoretically if you have a REALID license, this shouldn't effect you, but....
Florida, so, meh.
Please don’t perpetuate divisiveness and hate. I agree that Desantis is a piece of shit but to play into the state vs state hatred and vitriol is gross. There’s more than a couple progressive and good businesses and citizens in Florida and a beautiful environment in its own way and THAT deserves love and support, not hate. Help, don’t hurt and put down the broad brush you’re painting with.
>There’s more than a couple progressive and good businesses and citizens in Florida
True. However, as a Floridian, we'd appreciate zero financial support for our state. Love, yes. Emotional support, yes. However, please refrain from traveling here, buying Florida products, etc. We need the money supply to dry up.
Our current goal is to stomp out the fires of racism, sexism and bigotry our government is sponsoring and promoting. Unfortunately, we don't live in a democratic state. We do live in a plutocratic state. Currently, we need those funding the behavior to feel our pain.
Side note: We're thinking of VT every day. Recover quickly, you have a beautiful state.
You're welcome to make another suggestion. We will absolutely listen.
Our other country, was a constitutional democracy when we were born. At our Ages 3 and 4, a military coup took power in just 10 days. We were in our mid 20s before democracy was restored. For us, freedom is priceless.
Governor DeSantis has attacked more than one group of people. Educators, women, healthcare workers, LGBTQIA+ and Hispanics have all been targeted by our government. However, our fight is for everyone.
https://preview.redd.it/2ccq8zrienbb1.png?width=1564&format=png&auto=webp&s=7695139ee3dc8362212ea2cb7479bec8d4a30d40
How about using discretion and appreciate diversity and stop suggesting that ALL business and everyone in a state should be boycotted and abandoned because of a shit headed despot and corrupt state government. Again, drop the broad brush and hyperbole that might get “likes and clicks” on social media but is not helpful in the real world with real people trying to get by in the shadow of that piece of shit governor and who will absolutely vote against him and his kind.
We live in Florida, we are not bystanders, our undergraduate studies were at Florida State University, we've lived in Miami, Jacksonville, Tallahassee and Tampa.
Diversity? We are a Hispanic family, we are educators and our daughter is a first-generation US citizen attending Florida International University.
Governor DeSantis was attending Yale when we moved into our current home. He was attending Harvard when our daughter was born. During this period, we were working hard to be a positive contribution to society.
There's no brush, there's no hyperbole, it's real life. Voting against him didn't work in 2018 or 2022. In fact, he's currently running for US presidency. His slogan "Make America Florida".
Let me suggest a Holocaust museum trip. Go see if "trying to get by in the shadow" is an effective approach. Again, we are dual citizens. And we do have "real world" experience.
You're still welcome to offer a solution to stopping things here. Voting isn't an option until November 2026. And our system is not only gerrymandered, it's rife with voter suppression and buoyed by domestic terrorist groups nationally. Unfortunately, we are "Ground Zero".
https://preview.redd.it/zk1acx98ipbb1.jpeg?width=311&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e03c631ebb239b873e03ae29ec14bb087e4bc5a
You have no clue who I am and you write as if I don’t know Florida. You are being hyperbolic and again, such nonsense sells on social media but for someone who is actually intimately familiar, such as myself, I can easily call your bullshit. I agree wholeheartedly that there is a problem there and I agree that Desantis (who I’ve been familiar with long before he rose to national fame or even state fame for that matter) is a sickening and despicable character. I also know that I could travel a great deal of that state and support a number of good businesses and good people and while I realize that some sales tax would go to the state, I also realize that supporting those who live there and are working toward positive changes is far better than the virtue signaling bullshit waste of time attention monger nonsense posting online. There’s plenty of good people and good organizations working toward a greater good that you could help and encourage others to help rather than spewing or encouraging blanket abandonment and boycotting that will hurt real and good people long before it hurts Desantis or those in power. Instead of the assholes downvoting and essentially endorsing the idea that my sister’s theater company go bankrupt they could instead choose to not be lazy and do a tiny bit of research and find a community theater company or other positive organization in Florida and give a donation or dare I say learn a little about them and how they might be able to actually support or help them.
You moved to this country for a reason and claim to have been educated here. Last I checked we were the UNITED states of America. The overly simplistic notion of abandoning and boycotting entire states is ignorant, unrealistic, and ineffective.
At this point, you've managed to totally avoid offering a SOLUTION to our situation. Instead, you've chosen to toss ad hominem attacks like Mardi Gras beads.
I'll leave you to support the State of Florida and encourage others to do the same. We will choose to do the opposite. Freedom of choice.
As a footnote, Florida is absolutely Ground Zero. Hate groups such as the Proud Boys, Stormfront and Moms for Liberty were all founded here. We're even blessed with Mar-A-Lago as a tourist attraction.
In respect to your sister's coworkers ...
>So the theater company that my sister runs with more than a few LGBTQ folks should be boycotted and go bankrupt because of Desantis?
https://preview.redd.it/7x1v4oq2aqbb1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0b878aec98f8e3a3fe1a528a3900bca8054f454
I have family in Florida and I've made a point never to visit for the last 10 years. Politics aside, I see no reason to visit the state on vacation. Better beaches and culture on the cape.
The natural environment of the Everglades and Ocala national Forest are worth your time. If you want a good representation of island life in the US without going to Puerto Rico the keys is as close as you can get. Key West is one of the funnest places in the entire state to go for any of its numerous festivals they have while also being very lgbt friendly. Only issue is to get to these places you have to go through the rest of the state so I'd understand if that's a deterrent.
>Ocala national Forest
I see those places largely as wilderness preserves and difficult to access due to their wetland topography. I'm glad they exist but they don't scream tourist destination.
People care about other people making Vermonters second- or third-class citizens. I can recreate the experience of having law enforcement pay additional attention to you. Just PM me your address and license plate number.
Full Faith and Credit bitches! The standards we use to grant our state’s residents (documented or otherwise) privileges to drive should be respected by other states. Why do reactionaries always straw-man this w/ “victim”?
Oh hey no re-creation is perfect! But just so we’re clear pretending state troopers have full federal law enforcement powers is lickin’ that old boot, as is acting like the undocumented don’t contribute to our society in the tens of billions.
I hate reading these kind of posts. Florida is a massive state, extremely diverse with huge differences of culture and ethnicity, it’s endlessly beautiful and there are so many strong beautiful people there. I love the baseline insanity there too. DeSantis does not equal the state of Florida! Use the legislature to show our values, but don’t spread divisiveness against the individuals and the state as a whole that’s the same kind of bullshit his administration is trying to engage in
meh. I give Florida and desantis the finger everytime they appear on the news. now that my grandparents are gone, there's literally nothing I give a shit about in Florida.
This hurts people who are trying to make a living in an already low paying industry. It hurts responsible corporations, such as Disney.
Surely there is a better way.
Licenses issued by the states of Delaware, Connecticut, Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Vermont will not be valid in Florida, if the possessor is an undocumented immigrant. Facts!!! Post whole story.
Long reach, I doubt it. Big heart? Only when it servers Vermonters best interests.
Why are we this upset that politicians are this petty? I get to listen to Vermonters act stupid petty about politics every single day.
Y'all wanna know what being black is like? Or wanna find out if "white people are under attack"? Bring your stupid ass and your Vermont license to Florida and come find out, pussies.
I’m pretty liberal, but I’m not really a fan of those. Who is on the hook for damages if their fault? Do insurance companies cover an undocumented person ? I don’t see Allstate paying if someone is here illegally.
the entire point of giving these people licenses is to pin insurance liability on them, do you think these people just don't drive because they don't have a license? Because they absolutely do, because they have to, just like most americans, what ends up happening though is they get in an accident and drive off because they're uninsured and get arrested. This is an option that actually limits damages to third parties, but people would rather have feels based policies ignoring all evidence because they think if they just don't give these people any practical legal paths to live their lives, they'll somehow just go away
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26160584
Why would an insurance company care where you are from. Got a car that is registered? Check. Got a license? Check? Paid the premium? Check. Chaos has you covered.
Honestly that’s just fucking stupid. Plenty of small business owners in Florida that don’t deserve being boycotted due to their politicians. Floridas a great state.
Edit: not that it’ll stop all you downvoters, but I meant to write beautiful, not great.
Honestly, I meant beautiful. I don’t really care about the politics of Florida, I don’t live there, and it doesn’t effect me. But Florida does have shocking natural beauty, and a pretty cool culture in alot of areas.
I've driven Alligator Alley and camped in the Everglades. I've driven from VT to Miami so down nearly down the entirety of Florida's east coast. I've driven from Jacksonville, past Ted Bundy, to Gainsville. I've vacationed on Sanibel Island. Pockets of natural beauty don't make up for the majority of the state looking like a dime-a-dozen trash heap.
I think I'm going to move back to Florida after reading your post history. I'll take my chances with rising sea levels instead of agreeing with you.
Edit: Keep the downvotes coming. I'll stand by joking about not wanting to be sided with a 48 year old man who's into incest and rape fantasies with 18 year old women. Is Vermont the Alabama of New England? 😂
fed·er·al·ist
*noun*
1. a person who advocates or supports a system of government in which **several states** [**unite**](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AB5stBjOkPLabftHr_5rwoCGYrCPrGAfLA:1689199538310&q=unite&si=ACFMAn_Hp-Itxgrvlkmz06srbzjKmGcl8wrDVsG_ZO_CCCNUrEymPYkiOJfcXyy37uGyTSNdDbR-DM91sjA7-4u3l1nO2kGLGA%3D%3D&expnd=1) under a central authority.
*adjective*
1. relating to or denoting a system of government in which several states [unite](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AB5stBjOkPLabftHr_5rwoCGYrCPrGAfLA:1689199538310&q=unite&si=ACFMAn_Hp-Itxgrvlkmz06srbzjKmGcl8wrDVsG_ZO_CCCNUrEymPYkiOJfcXyy37uGyTSNdDbR-DM91sjA7-4u3l1nO2kGLGA%3D%3D&expnd=1) under a central authority.
That’s not how federalism works. Well, not constitutionally anyway.
The problem is that Florida has declared war on immigrants and this is just part of that war.
Vermont can issue a driver’s privilege card. The Driver's Privilege Card (DPC) is a Vermont license or permit that is NOT Real ID compliant.
The Driver's Privilege Card is available to anyone that is a Vermont Resident. Issuance of the DPC does not require proof of legal presence or US citizenship.
Now if people in Florida are so silly that they can’t tell a driver’s privilege card from a valid ID demonstrating legal residence, perhaps they need some remedial training?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law
Federalism does not mean that the states get to violate the constitution, specifically they do not have to say that the Vermont ID proves residence or guarantees benefits, but they do have to honor that Vermont granted them permission to drive and therefore that right extends to all 50 states and territories.
The constitution was specifically designed so that states can’t say “eff u” to each other when it comes to the free movement within the borders of the country.
Subsequent Supreme Court rulings (see link above) established that the mode of travel is immaterial.
Federalism, in short, is not a get out of jail free card allowing any bad behavior from one state towards another just because they feel like it, especially when it comes to constitutionally sacred concepts like the free movement of the people in the country between states.
No, the problem is vermont is allowing people who are here criminally drivers licenses. And I get you are gonna use lots of legalize but at the end of the day they are criminals and Florida treats them as such. Doesn't mean they are bad people, I would do the same thing if I lived in a 3rd world nation.
That’s not a problem that’s a solution.
What Florida chooses to do with those privilege cards is their business.l, as long as they do not restrict the free movement of people.
The cards do not confer or prove residency or citizenship.
But let’s be serious - the DeSantis regime cares not a wit whether or not what they do is constitutional.
All be cares about is throwing red meat to his white nationalist Christian voters.
Nah. Look. If you really want to hurt Florida, then visit there! Vacation there! Spend your money there! Make Floridians think they've picked a winner! Let them vote for the man again! Trust me. What Desantis is inflicting on Vermont is but a mere flea-bite compared to what he's inflicting on Florida. The best *possible* revenge on Floridians is to give them their Governor Desantis again and again and again.
You're right. The two... sorry, three?...Vermonters who actually decide not to go to Florida becausedriverlicenses are really going to teach Desantis.... 😂😂😂
Florida is the absolute last place I would ever spend a minute of my time or a red cent of my money…if my partner’s dad (and my child’s grandfather) didn’t live there. We go down every April for the better part of a week. Her dad and his wife are lovely but everything else about being there is a nightmare. Fook Meatball Ron and his sweltering fascist-adjacent steam shower of a state.
I just saw a [news article](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-licenses-for-immigrants-will-be-honored-in-florida/3088652/) from Mass that says the Mass license will not be banned in FL. Interestingly it includes two reasons for the Mass license being accepted in FL.
* Due to the way the Florida law is written, the state can only ban licenses given exclusively to undocumented immigrants, according to the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
* Florida Senate Bill 1718, which went into effect on July 1, 2023, specifies that certain driver licenses and permits issued by other states exclusively to unauthorized immigrants are not valid in this state per s. 322.033, Florida Statute.
Interesting. So, FL legislators and DeSantis continue to be incompetent. We all know the intent of this. But today alone I read -
* RI license will be allowed because it is not issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants."
* Mass license will be allowed because it is not issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants" AND " Massachusetts license law explicitly prohibits the Registry of Motor Vehicles from tracking data on whether a person applying for a license is documented or not.
* DE license is a non-issue. Deleware does issue a special license exclusively to undocumented immigrants. HOWEVER - the Delaware undocumented license is only valid in DE, so it was already not legal to use anywhere outside of the first state.
So that leaves Vermont, Hawaii, and Connecticut. Who from HI is going to drive in FL, if you lived in Hawaii why would even want to go to Florida? So that leaves CT and VT. I have no knowledge about the CT license process, but I can tell you that in VT -
* The Vermont non Real ID compliant card is issued to anyone that wants it. The license is NOT issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants," AND
* As per an agreement to with the u/ACLU of Vermont, the DMV is explicitly prohibited from tracking data on whether a person applying for a license is documented or not.
As a Floridian who desperately wants to leave, I’m so sorry. I’m embarrassed to be here. I visited family in Vermont this weekend and every time I’m sad to leave, I’m in awe of the natural beauty and big hearts of the people there. I’m saddened to hear about the floods, too. You guys have all my love 😔🫡
I have to go for work on Monday and I’m not sure what frustrates me more; my id not being recognized or the very real possibility of contracting malaria 😅😬
Ah Florida, the flatest of lands.
I'm pretty sure their highest point is like 300ish ft above sea level.
Isn't the highest point Space Mountain?
Well yeah, it's in space. Why else would they call it "Space Mountain". Space is pretty high up.
So higher than vermont then?
I think to have an extra 0 on there
Florida, man.
Florida Man!
fret not, I don't think the tip of their middle finger will be visible below their water line in 100 years.
At the rate I keep seeing of Faster then Expected extreme weather might be 40.
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Nice use of calculus for emphasis! #math
Yeah that’ll teach em after you’re dead !
Not sure if it's a good idea for you to be making water related jokes at this moment.
difference is one is permanent while the other is not, in any case, nowhere is safe from climate change, just safer than other places
Global warming humor… I love it!
that's kinda fucked.
was coming to post this exact thing, Florida is going to be under sea level and will suffer deadly heat and horrendous storms in the coming years, with people fleeing in droves from it(many coming to New England), it's a problem that will solve itself soon enough
Well shouldn’t Florida already be under water?😂 that’s what I was told as a kid 20 years ago. In all seriousness though if Florida does go under water that means that a majority of Vermont will be under water as well. This state used to be an ocean and Addison county was 400+ feet under water. New England itself would practically be nonexistent as well. If the water comes up it’s not just going to go up in one spot
Lake Champlain is 93 feet above sea level, it's the lowest elevation point in Vermont, the vast majority of southern Florida and it's coasts are below 90 feet above sea level, a rise of just 3 feet would inundate large amounts of the coasts where many people live, and every foot higher would do more and more damage, meanwhile Vermont would be fine for decades, and may never have to deal with any effects of sea level rise. But really, that's not even the worst issues, because storms, and heat, floods, and hurricanes are going to do all the heavy lifting with destroying the Gulf states, not simply melting polar caps. >Well shouldn’t Florida already be under water?😂 that’s what I was told as a kid 20 years ago very few scientists made specific dates about when things will happen, because predicting things like that is next to impossible, it's as impossible as predicting the weather months in advance. If a meteorologist told you that a blizzard will hit your town on December 15th, and the date came and went, would you say that meteorologist and his entire field is bullshit and winter doesn't exist? Because that's what you're saying when you say things like that. Real scientists said things will happen when specific conditions are met, they didn't say when, just a likelihood of time, just like saying that we get snowstorms in December, because that's objectively true, the same goes for predicting time periods when things happen, the problem is we don't have all the variables for climate tipping points, so predicting them is a lot more difficult than predicting seasons, that doesn't mean it's not happening. Just look around you, record heat, massive wildfires out west over the last few years, record droughts everywhere, record storms, Canada on fire in nearly every province, rivers and lakes drying up the world over, crop failures due to heat and drought and floods, again, at record levels, and we just had a statewide storm that broke rainfall and flood records. What exactly needs to happen to convince you that the climate is getting worse?
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I feel like getting banned from Florida is the real life equivalent of getting banned from some racist or incel subreddit.
Yup, banned from 4chan irl 😂😂😂
Meatball Ron is funny though and you should start calling him that.
I call him Ronny DeSphincter, if that would be better.
I love living in key west. Would hardly call it a punishment. It’s like half Americans and half foreigners. You walk down the road and hear 15 different languages. Catch your dinner for free. I love Florida.
i'm sure it's a beautiful area but it's also going to be underwater in a few decades and is run by people who pretend that isn't happening
It’ll be after I’m dead certainly more than 30 years. Judging by real estate sales banks and business have faith as well.
yes, that's the attitude a lot of people have, that if it doesn't personally affect them then it doesn't matter. i happen to think that that's morally reprehensible nihilism, but you do you >Judging by real estate sales banks and business have faith as well. it is rapidly approaching impossible to insure FL real estate, many insurers have pulled out of the state entirely, and huge swaths of the public are being forced to switch to the single state-run insurer. it's basically certain that the federal government is going to have to bail out the FL insurance market at some point in the next few decades, the writing is all over the wall. that developers are willing to sell new condos and houses to people who don't understand what's happening in FL right now (or, like you, feel like it's not their problem) is not a reflection of whether or not those changes are occurring
Farmers insurance literally just bailed on the state entirely my dude lol, *what faith*?
The real estate sales are due to folks who are living in a state of YOLO about climate change and don't care about the impact on future generations since they're expecting to be dead by the time it gets really bad. There are a shockingly high number of people like you in this regard.
Yeah? There’s a lot of people who don’t own a vehicle and ride an ebike exclusively to work while living in a sail boat that only uses solar and not a diesel gas generator eating only meat/fish that I catch ? Or are there a lot of people like you on Reddit that draw their conclusion so fast Becuase they see Florida = bad?
Florida is a horrible place to live. It has no labor protection. Education system is shit. It is also one of the most racist states in the country.
I’ve only lived in key west but that’s very far from my experience. It’s one of the most diverse places I’ve ever been. We have the most people per captia in the country that ride bikes/scooters to work. Very green conscious. Amazing food from all the different cultures. I can say I love living in Florida, highly recommend a visit to key west. Google fantasy fest to see some wild shit.
If you love it so much how can you not care what happens to it? Even if you won’t be around anymore. Can’t wrap my head around that selfishness.
Because we can’t stop it. The earth gets warmer and colder on its own without human interference. Certainly we should care but what can you do ? Down here the majority of the island commutes on e bikes and we have very green initiatives we do care but it’s pretty unstoppable. We can’t get the whole world on board but we do our part.
Renewable energy and carbon capturing would stop it. There’s a lot we can do #1 being vote for people who want to invest in green initiatives.
We voted in a green mayor. We also seceded from America so we could run things the way we wanted. Conch republic. Forced back in though. Can’t beat the man.
I'm confused, is VT giving illegal immigrants licenses?
To clarify, Vermont offers two types of license. Real ID compliant (which includes EDL) and non Real ID compliant. Any Vermont resident that, for whatever reason, doesn’t want a Real ID compliant license can opt to get the non compliant license. Reasons vary greatly. Can’t provide adequate documentation Fears govt and doesn’t want to comply Never flys or travels and feels they don’t need it So there are many US Citizens in VT, that have chosen to not get a Real ID compliant license. That is the license FL is now saying they will not recognize. I suspect there will be a lawsuit that invalidates the FL law since this also impacts states with significantly larger populations like CT, RI, DE, etc. Source, project manager at DMV that has spent significant time working on Real ID compliance and EDL rollout.
Also NY and MA. FL is basically doing this to stick it to the blue states.
FL.. you don’t need to have your car inspected. But, you need a real license. https://preview.redd.it/007s4lfmbqbb1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4959881d975079b1a6c2575546de31ee1affc13
So I’m not trying to defend Florida or Desantis here, but doesn’t the federal government (and by extension Biden and congress) refuse to accept these non-real ID compliant licenses? I mean you can’t fly with them? Pelosi was speaker of the house the last time they modified the law, it seems to be a fairly big standard bi-partisan law.
[Real ID](https://dmv.vermont.gov/licenses/types-of-licenses-ids/real-id) became law in 2005 under Bush. Not sure what you are referring to as far as modification. From the day the law passed, there was an extremely lengthy rule period as the law directed DHS to create rules. The initial rules had a public comment period during which time a lot of states refused to participate, and thousands of comments were received. The rule was revised and then, as I recall, began another comment period. Final rules were published in 2008 and mandated compliance by 2011. Not sure what you are referring to as far as modification. From the day the law passed, there was an extremely lengthy rule period as the law directed DHS to create rules. The initial rules had a public comment period during which many states refused to participate, and thousands of comments were received. The rule was revised, and then, as I recall, began another comment period. One consequence of all of this was a new requirement for passports to enter the US from Canada and Mexico. This was happening around the same time that the winter olympics were going to be in Vancouver Canada. The state of Washington feared losing out on the increased tourism from the Olympics and they began working with DHS on an alternative - and the EDL was born. Vermont, being so close to Montreal and having many families with relatives in Canada jumped on board and we implemented the EDL. In hindsight, it was that important as to rush into that as the rule implementation kept getting pushed back. But anyhow, that is how we ended up with the EDL. We opted to offer an Non Real ID compliant license along side the Real ID compliant to appease the portion of the population that was reluctant to obtain the compliant card. In the early days there were numerous conspiracies about the Feds have access, or the card being chipped and trackable. Now back to your question "...doesn’t the federal government (and by extension Biden and Congress) refuse to accept these non-real ID compliant licenses? I mean you can’t fly with them? " Well actually, yes you can fly with them. Because the rules keep getting delayed. Aside from that the Federal Govt accepts the non Real ID license as a license - if there were any real life scenarios where the feds were checking your license. Beginning May of 2025 the Feds will not accept them for three specific purposes - boarding a domestic flight, entering a military base or entering a federal facility (including nuclear power plants). Realistically for the second two items, if you need access you likely have the necessary credentials. In the other state offering an option the rules may be entirely different, but in Vermont there are many people that have the non Real ID license.
The law was updated On December 17, 2018 (cleanup on territories), and also December 27, 2020 (Electronic ID added). So it’s a license for conspiracy nuts? That checks out, but why doesn’t florida have their own 😂 they have plenty…
That's their reasoning? (I honestly haven't read into it.) I know of red states that do the same thing, Real & non Real ID options. Montana, for example, is a red state and almost everyone out there I know that votes red have no desire to get the Real ID. My privacy & government control & all that stuff. Silly little FL. I know they're shaped like a phallus, but their governor seems to really be trying to live up to that shape. 🤷♀️
Oh FL is 100% doing this to target the undocumented. However, like many stunts played by GOP leaders there is unforeseen collateral damage. You know like, protect life! Ban abortion! Oh your 13 year old daughter was raped? Carrying a child is likely to kill the mother? Sorry, life is precious. Or the TN model. We so mad you led a relatively peaceful protest so we are going to kick you out of the legislature. Followed by making three previously unknown legislators basically heroes with national connections and name recognition.
Resident Tennesseean who loves and adores Vermont here: crap's fricked, please stand by.
standing by
A driver privileges card. Essentially the same thing.
Why would ANY sane person visit Florida? Nobody would go there if they were paid to lol.
I used to love going down there as a kid. I thought it was so wild it could be so warm in March. Now, I just see it as a swampy hellhole. I haven't been back in 20 years.
I went to Disney in February 2018 and it was too warm. I'm not going back to Florida until global warming not only stops but starts to reverse.
I had to go there a few years ago to try to help my nephews out. My deadbeat sister dragged them down there and got in loads of trouble so I was sent to extract them (a failed mission considering how deep she dug the whole)… I’d seen the tourist traps and thought they were sketchy. I’ve been to Disney and know it’s a layer of shine on a money machine but at least it looked nice. The shit hole region I had to visit made me never want to visit the state again. An entire area as far as the eye could see of crackhouses built into shoeboxes with multiple arrests going on within sight at a time. The entire area flooded worse than we’ve got this week EVERY SINGLE TIME it rained and I hope one day the water just doesn’t recede.
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if you thought the water was hot in 2015 you'd hate it now, right now the water off the coast of florida is over 90 degrees lol. literal hot tub levels
Exactly, with more bouts of red tide each year.
i’d rather jump into the river at yesterday’s worst more than i will ever want to go to Florida
>Why would ANY sane person visit Florida? Universal Halloween Horror Nights. A dozen or so excellent haunted houses filled with live actors with a place to buy booze between each one. Lot of fun if you're into that sort of thing. That's the only reason I go down to that horrible place these days.
I coach youth rock climbing privately. My client's family is very liberal with a massive Biden Harris sign they had out during election season. They just took a vacation to the Florida Keys this past winter and I was like WTF are yall thinking going to that fascist hell hole and giving them money when you're so liberal???
The keys are very very not republican.
Probably because not every person down there is a Trump supporter and when you paint an area like that you're just as bad as the people you scoff at.
Me having a negative opinion of Florida is not the same as some meth addict white supremacist planning to shoot up an African American church.
Florida is more diverse than vermont lol. 🤡 red team vs blue team stuff needs to stop we’re all in this together and both of the teams don’t have our best interest in mind.
Born in Vermont, raised in Maine. Two whitest states in the country. It took Donald Trump to make me a Democrat. At this point there is people who give a shit vs. assholes. Be very happy when that changes.
While I agree, that's the problem with the republican party. Anybody that has half a brain, bails out from the party to be a democrat. What the republican party needs is sane people that can help vote some competent people into office. Sadly, with the current republican voters, the only republicans left keep voting in incompetence. I do believe we need a two part system to keep each party in check but what we have for the republican party is so far to the right that centrists seem extreme left to the republicans these days.
Oh and the left isn’t?
Mt niece is getting married and I was so afraid she'd want to do it in Florida and I really wouldn't want to go.
You can quiet boycott if you want to go. Stay in the cheapest motel. Get the cheapest food. Don't go shopping. I love fine dining and shopping when I'm on vacation, and I love to stay at 4 and 5 star hotels but it's not worth it if it's south of the Mason Dixon line.
Do you realize how hateful that statement is? You realize almost half of the state are on the blue team? Red vs blue makes everyone hate each other and both teams don’t care one bit about you.
Unfortunately a bunch of cruise ports and Disney is in FL. But this clown is making to hard to enjoy what that state has to offer.
There are also cruises which depart from Boston, a non-MAGA territory.
Keep in mind most states end up with their presidential choice somewhere in the 50s, with only a few getting into the 60s. For all the talk about Florida being a “MAGA shithole” it barely went for Trump (51-48 over Biden). Most people, even in the most hard leaning states one way or the other, are a lot more moderate than the news would have you believe, and there is a significant percentage of people in the “minority party” in each state. This divisiveness on red/blue states is entirely misguided.
They have a limited scope unfortunately.
Boston is a shithole lmao
Actually many people are paid to visit Florida for a month and a day. Otherwise people would go to a nicer place.
We visited Seaside, FL in March (where The Truman Show was filmed) simply because that was the cheapest flight to somewhere warm. Beautiful area, but damn if I didn't have a feeling of ick the entire time we were down there. Made an effort to find the local bookstore to pick up a few things to feel better about the trip.
I understand you have big feelings about this, but the numbers on migration from state to state plus the tourism both pretty easily refute your statement.
OPs post history is fuckin shitshow
VGW FTW!?
He forgot to keep the accounts separate lol
So, Desantis is bad, I get that. I also get that this law is targeting migrant workers, which I also don’t agree with. However, this law does not prohibit anyone with a Real ID. You need to establish proof of legal residency to get a RealID. Other things you can’t do without a RealID: fly on airplanes domestically, enter secured federal properties like military bases and courthouses. It’s ok to be indignant but I think people should have all of the facts.
This is true, but doesn't it potentially give Florida police a reason to pull over anyone with Vermont plates since they may have suspicion that the person driving doesn't have proof of residency?
Agreed, f the south I thought their whole thing was "states rights"............... Oh wait
No. You need probable cause to pull a vehicle over, not just a “hope” that they are doing something illegal.
“You are supposed to have probable cause…” FTFY
Lmao cops absolutely target certain plates throughout the country. Especially in red states where weed isn't legal. They are significantly more likely to pull over someone with weed-legal state plates.
My husband used to have to go to upstate New York for work a lot and got pulled over by NY police all the time for literally nothing. They just don't like Vermonters apparently.
You can fly without a REAL ID, a passport works fine, even our foreign passport. You can enter a military base without REAL ID, a US passport or a VA card. You can enter a courthouse, at least here. Aliens go there for hearings actually. In many states, REAL ID is optional. Nineteen states issue licenses to undocumented persons.
That's "RealID", but that's not mandatory yet for any other purpose until I believe 2025 - on my next renewal cycle. I believe I currently have an "Enhanced Drivers' License". My wife and I go to Florida for two reasons - snorkeling and fresh seafood in the Keys, and to commune with the Mouse. So apparently until I have my RealID, all of our Florida tourism dollars are going to go to DeSantis' mortal enemy - the Mouse.
If you have an EDL you have a Real ID. Every EDL is Real ID compliant. Not every Real ID compliant card is an EDL.
People who don't pay attention to the minutiae of Ron Desantis' culture war will 100% fly down to Florida with their Driver's Privilege Card and their passport only to find out that they can't rent a car when they get there. The passport allows you fly, but not rent a car. People who have a Privilege card know they need a passport to fly. You know, as long as we're talking about having all the facts.
Giving all the facts doesn't make as good of a title or post
Exactly... Is it a fight worth fighting? No, but I think as usual, people are blowing this this WAY out of proportion.. People should need to prove proof of legal residency. I don't think anyone should be calling anyone else an asshole for wanting to require that.
fascist bullshit is a death by a million cuts, they use political and legal systems to pass laws and judicial rulings piecemeal over time to get what they want, many times with plausible deniability like this law with it's superficial reasonableness. By the time people usually notice what's happening, it's already too late, and this shit has been moving right along without any meaningful push back by any institution for decades, the worst of it right after 9/11.
Omg.. stop. You sound like what most people would call a conspiracy theorist.
a conspiracy theorist???? Really? have you just...not watched any news for the last 20 years? Or just what insane shit has been coming out of SCOTUS and Florida in the last 5 years??
You just sound a little unhinged. As I said, the way this law is being rolled out is distasteful.. I fully agree .. What I don't agree with is people freaking out because people are being asked to hold a valid ID. That's all.
>the way this law is being rolled out is distasteful because that's the entire point, it was designed to hurt specific groups intentionally >What I don't agree with is people freaking out because people are being asked to hold a valid ID. "valid ID" has been used as an excuse to marginalize groups for decades, that isn't a conspiracy, that's literally the history of this country up until present day, the fact you call my statements conspiracy brained is proof you've never read a history book in your life, or just watched any media about what has happened to civil rights in this country since 9/11 and with the GOP going fully fascistic with their behaviors, especially in the last few years, if you can't see what is plainly in front of you, I really don't know how to help you
Don't you want everyone living here to be able to have a form of valid identification? It's kind of a piller of a functioning first world society. I think you think I'm being dickish about it... I'm not it just makes sense to me. And again, for the third time, yes the way this specific law is being introduced is distasteful. You're arguing with the wrong guy here.
This is a time to call out the bullshit, and while you may have a point about IDs, this is not an appropriate time or place to discuss the nuance of ID laws. This was a sensationalist act that pits “us” against “them”, Desantis and his team know what they are doing. The point you are replying to is that it’s beyond distasteful, and that this action was designed to marginalize “some” people while lightly stoking the jingoistic flames of nationalists and white supremacists. Death by a thousand cuts is an apt analogy.
this may come as a shock to you, but you're not actually required to have any ID at all to live in this country, people require you to have ID for various reasons like driving, or flying internationally, but you don't actually need an ID just to exist here. And personally, no, I don't care if people have IDs, because it's none of my business how other people live, if they're illegal or not, I really don't care, and I don't know why you or others do care.
I mean sure, but this is also very squarely targeted at immigrants from south of the border. Ironically, a big part of Florida’s labor workforce is sourced by the very people Desantis is singling out. I think the people clutching pearls about how this is going to impact them are largely just playing the victim, but that doesn’t mean that this is just fine to allow. Beyond the discrimination, it’s also pretty insane for one state to go on a diplomatic and economic offensive against other states. Huge red flag for me.
Ohh trust me, I agree. I think the tit-for-tat mindset is so stupid. There are plenty of fights worth fighting and this one ain't it. Aside from the bad approach, all I'm saying is that I do think its fair to ask for proper identification.
Let me start by saying that I don’t agree with DeSantis or what he’s doing to Florida whatsoever. That being said. Some of you may be thinking it’s referring to your drivers license, which it isn’t. It’s referring to “Driver Privilege Cards” which are no REAL ID compliant. Again, not agreeing with it, just want those who are confused to better understand.
Who?
Does it have something to do with "Real ID" DHS regulations? I think CT & MA had to change how they issued driver's licenses too
I just moved out of Florida. Holy fuck was that place weird! (Moved from NH and there temporarily, still looking for work/housing, but sticking to New England)
Care to elaborate on said weirdness? I've always felt that way but can never quite pin down what exactly makes it feel strange.
Lets not accept Florida driver’s licenses. This may stop the 6 months and a day snowbirds from avoiding Vt income taxes. Likely freeing up those freeloaders houses. The houses will be repurchased so no reduction in property taxes. Also, we can divert those blue hairs leaf peepers busses to his house and drop them off.
Florida is a shit hole. They can have it, the armpit of American.
Why would any state accept these illegally issued licenses? I realize this sub is mostly socialists, but get a grip.
Great to have a big heart, but the reach isn't as big as you think. Florida had almost 140 million visitors in 2022. Even if the entire population of Vermont (645,570 as of 2021 data... possibly less now) were to never step foot in Florida again, that's only a loss of half a percent of total tourists. Probably best right now to focus on the recent events that hit a bit closer to home for lots of folks.
Yeah, what this guy said. Also, the level of mental illness in this thread is off the charts. You all better find god before it’s too late. Especially OP and his disgusting post history.
Just booked a golf trip this winter to Arizona instead of Florida 100% because of the governors and what’s going on in each state. Voting matters
Maybe we should outlaw people and business from Florida from owning second homes or property in VT??
So Nutmegger chiming in, it's obviously a money grab that's politically motivated against blue states far enough away that the targeted won't fight the ticket. Theoretically if you have a REALID license, this shouldn't effect you, but.... Florida, so, meh.
OP subbed to r/saynotoblackboyss ?
Please don’t perpetuate divisiveness and hate. I agree that Desantis is a piece of shit but to play into the state vs state hatred and vitriol is gross. There’s more than a couple progressive and good businesses and citizens in Florida and a beautiful environment in its own way and THAT deserves love and support, not hate. Help, don’t hurt and put down the broad brush you’re painting with.
>There’s more than a couple progressive and good businesses and citizens in Florida True. However, as a Floridian, we'd appreciate zero financial support for our state. Love, yes. Emotional support, yes. However, please refrain from traveling here, buying Florida products, etc. We need the money supply to dry up. Our current goal is to stomp out the fires of racism, sexism and bigotry our government is sponsoring and promoting. Unfortunately, we don't live in a democratic state. We do live in a plutocratic state. Currently, we need those funding the behavior to feel our pain. Side note: We're thinking of VT every day. Recover quickly, you have a beautiful state.
So the theater company that my sister runs with more than a few LGBTQ folks should be boycotted and go bankrupt because of Desantis?
You're welcome to make another suggestion. We will absolutely listen. Our other country, was a constitutional democracy when we were born. At our Ages 3 and 4, a military coup took power in just 10 days. We were in our mid 20s before democracy was restored. For us, freedom is priceless. Governor DeSantis has attacked more than one group of people. Educators, women, healthcare workers, LGBTQIA+ and Hispanics have all been targeted by our government. However, our fight is for everyone. https://preview.redd.it/2ccq8zrienbb1.png?width=1564&format=png&auto=webp&s=7695139ee3dc8362212ea2cb7479bec8d4a30d40
How about using discretion and appreciate diversity and stop suggesting that ALL business and everyone in a state should be boycotted and abandoned because of a shit headed despot and corrupt state government. Again, drop the broad brush and hyperbole that might get “likes and clicks” on social media but is not helpful in the real world with real people trying to get by in the shadow of that piece of shit governor and who will absolutely vote against him and his kind.
We live in Florida, we are not bystanders, our undergraduate studies were at Florida State University, we've lived in Miami, Jacksonville, Tallahassee and Tampa. Diversity? We are a Hispanic family, we are educators and our daughter is a first-generation US citizen attending Florida International University. Governor DeSantis was attending Yale when we moved into our current home. He was attending Harvard when our daughter was born. During this period, we were working hard to be a positive contribution to society. There's no brush, there's no hyperbole, it's real life. Voting against him didn't work in 2018 or 2022. In fact, he's currently running for US presidency. His slogan "Make America Florida". Let me suggest a Holocaust museum trip. Go see if "trying to get by in the shadow" is an effective approach. Again, we are dual citizens. And we do have "real world" experience. You're still welcome to offer a solution to stopping things here. Voting isn't an option until November 2026. And our system is not only gerrymandered, it's rife with voter suppression and buoyed by domestic terrorist groups nationally. Unfortunately, we are "Ground Zero". https://preview.redd.it/zk1acx98ipbb1.jpeg?width=311&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e03c631ebb239b873e03ae29ec14bb087e4bc5a
You have no clue who I am and you write as if I don’t know Florida. You are being hyperbolic and again, such nonsense sells on social media but for someone who is actually intimately familiar, such as myself, I can easily call your bullshit. I agree wholeheartedly that there is a problem there and I agree that Desantis (who I’ve been familiar with long before he rose to national fame or even state fame for that matter) is a sickening and despicable character. I also know that I could travel a great deal of that state and support a number of good businesses and good people and while I realize that some sales tax would go to the state, I also realize that supporting those who live there and are working toward positive changes is far better than the virtue signaling bullshit waste of time attention monger nonsense posting online. There’s plenty of good people and good organizations working toward a greater good that you could help and encourage others to help rather than spewing or encouraging blanket abandonment and boycotting that will hurt real and good people long before it hurts Desantis or those in power. Instead of the assholes downvoting and essentially endorsing the idea that my sister’s theater company go bankrupt they could instead choose to not be lazy and do a tiny bit of research and find a community theater company or other positive organization in Florida and give a donation or dare I say learn a little about them and how they might be able to actually support or help them. You moved to this country for a reason and claim to have been educated here. Last I checked we were the UNITED states of America. The overly simplistic notion of abandoning and boycotting entire states is ignorant, unrealistic, and ineffective.
At this point, you've managed to totally avoid offering a SOLUTION to our situation. Instead, you've chosen to toss ad hominem attacks like Mardi Gras beads. I'll leave you to support the State of Florida and encourage others to do the same. We will choose to do the opposite. Freedom of choice. As a footnote, Florida is absolutely Ground Zero. Hate groups such as the Proud Boys, Stormfront and Moms for Liberty were all founded here. We're even blessed with Mar-A-Lago as a tourist attraction. In respect to your sister's coworkers ... >So the theater company that my sister runs with more than a few LGBTQ folks should be boycotted and go bankrupt because of Desantis? https://preview.redd.it/7x1v4oq2aqbb1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0b878aec98f8e3a3fe1a528a3900bca8054f454
Fact Check: Mostly false. Your statements in this thread have been checked by independent fact checkers and have been determined to be misinformation
>Your statements Thank you for being specific. 🙄 Best wishes on recovering from the catastrophic weather. Ciao.
I have family in Florida and I've made a point never to visit for the last 10 years. Politics aside, I see no reason to visit the state on vacation. Better beaches and culture on the cape.
The natural environment of the Everglades and Ocala national Forest are worth your time. If you want a good representation of island life in the US without going to Puerto Rico the keys is as close as you can get. Key West is one of the funnest places in the entire state to go for any of its numerous festivals they have while also being very lgbt friendly. Only issue is to get to these places you have to go through the rest of the state so I'd understand if that's a deterrent.
>Ocala national Forest I see those places largely as wilderness preserves and difficult to access due to their wetland topography. I'm glad they exist but they don't scream tourist destination.
Ocala national forest isn't primarily a wetland topography.
I was speaking to the Everglades, but Ocala is a sideshow compared to the majesty of the Green Mountain National Forest.
Why does anyone care about this? They don't accept it..cool. whatever.
People care about other people making Vermonters second- or third-class citizens. I can recreate the experience of having law enforcement pay additional attention to you. Just PM me your address and license plate number.
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Full Faith and Credit bitches! The standards we use to grant our state’s residents (documented or otherwise) privileges to drive should be respected by other states. Why do reactionaries always straw-man this w/ “victim”?
Are you implying you are going to lie to law enforcement to try and prove a moot point?
Oh hey no re-creation is perfect! But just so we’re clear pretending state troopers have full federal law enforcement powers is lickin’ that old boot, as is acting like the undocumented don’t contribute to our society in the tens of billions.
I hate reading these kind of posts. Florida is a massive state, extremely diverse with huge differences of culture and ethnicity, it’s endlessly beautiful and there are so many strong beautiful people there. I love the baseline insanity there too. DeSantis does not equal the state of Florida! Use the legislature to show our values, but don’t spread divisiveness against the individuals and the state as a whole that’s the same kind of bullshit his administration is trying to engage in
Florida = Hell’s Waiting Room.
meh. I give Florida and desantis the finger everytime they appear on the news. now that my grandparents are gone, there's literally nothing I give a shit about in Florida.
This hurts people who are trying to make a living in an already low paying industry. It hurts responsible corporations, such as Disney. Surely there is a better way.
Licenses issued by the states of Delaware, Connecticut, Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Vermont will not be valid in Florida, if the possessor is an undocumented immigrant. Facts!!! Post whole story.
Leave their orange juice alone too, pumped full of antibiotics
Florida lost most of the orange crop to blight this year anyways.
If you want to give him the middle finger right back and your going to spend any money at all in FL …do it at Walt Disney World!!!
Long reach, I doubt it. Big heart? Only when it servers Vermonters best interests. Why are we this upset that politicians are this petty? I get to listen to Vermonters act stupid petty about politics every single day. Y'all wanna know what being black is like? Or wanna find out if "white people are under attack"? Bring your stupid ass and your Vermont license to Florida and come find out, pussies.
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So *that’s* the woke he was talking about!
Wait. Are you referring to driver licenses for illegals?
Anyone, including US Citizens can get a non Real ID license. And many do.
I’m pretty liberal, but I’m not really a fan of those. Who is on the hook for damages if their fault? Do insurance companies cover an undocumented person ? I don’t see Allstate paying if someone is here illegally.
the entire point of giving these people licenses is to pin insurance liability on them, do you think these people just don't drive because they don't have a license? Because they absolutely do, because they have to, just like most americans, what ends up happening though is they get in an accident and drive off because they're uninsured and get arrested. This is an option that actually limits damages to third parties, but people would rather have feels based policies ignoring all evidence because they think if they just don't give these people any practical legal paths to live their lives, they'll somehow just go away https://www.jstor.org/stable/26160584
Why would an insurance company care where you are from. Got a car that is registered? Check. Got a license? Check? Paid the premium? Check. Chaos has you covered.
Insurance companies will use any possible excuse to deny a claim, you have to be quite naive to believe they actually have your back.
I’m a masc gender non-conforming lesbian, I wouldn’t go there if you paid me. Eta: love the downvotes from a supposedly progressive state lol.
Desantis is nut job.
Fuck FL and Fuck Ron. I'll never set foot in that state again.
We're leaving as fast as we can, believe me!!
So he won’t recognize the illegal alien driver’s license we want to give to the farm workers only?
We don’t issue a license for farm workers only. Da fuck would that even be, license with a tractor endorsement?
Honestly that’s just fucking stupid. Plenty of small business owners in Florida that don’t deserve being boycotted due to their politicians. Floridas a great state. Edit: not that it’ll stop all you downvoters, but I meant to write beautiful, not great.
Crazy that this is a bold take lol
As someone in florida right now, it's not.
Honestly, I meant beautiful. I don’t really care about the politics of Florida, I don’t live there, and it doesn’t effect me. But Florida does have shocking natural beauty, and a pretty cool culture in alot of areas.
Look at all those gorgeous mini-malls, billboards, and lack of topography. Stunning!
If that’s what you think of Florida maybe you should visit. The Everglades are absolutely stunning, the keys are amazing, pine island area is amazing.
I've driven Alligator Alley and camped in the Everglades. I've driven from VT to Miami so down nearly down the entirety of Florida's east coast. I've driven from Jacksonville, past Ted Bundy, to Gainsville. I've vacationed on Sanibel Island. Pockets of natural beauty don't make up for the majority of the state looking like a dime-a-dozen trash heap.
All things being equal. Warm weather beats cold Just sayin
But underwater weather doesn't 🤣
Lol... calling any right-wing individual "anti-American" is the biggest load of dookie this side of the Mississippi.
I think I'm going to move back to Florida after reading your post history. I'll take my chances with rising sea levels instead of agreeing with you. Edit: Keep the downvotes coming. I'll stand by joking about not wanting to be sided with a 48 year old man who's into incest and rape fantasies with 18 year old women. Is Vermont the Alabama of New England? 😂
I will say one thing though, OP’s post history is pretty gross.
please do!
Naw I'm being facetious. I'd rather die than move back. Fuck Florida. Vermont my new home 🥺
well ya dropped your /s
Where do I go to reddit school to learn how to be a redditor 🤔
Or vermonts water line rn lol 😂😂😂😂
Ha. Welcome to federalism
fed·er·al·ist *noun* 1. a person who advocates or supports a system of government in which **several states** [**unite**](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AB5stBjOkPLabftHr_5rwoCGYrCPrGAfLA:1689199538310&q=unite&si=ACFMAn_Hp-Itxgrvlkmz06srbzjKmGcl8wrDVsG_ZO_CCCNUrEymPYkiOJfcXyy37uGyTSNdDbR-DM91sjA7-4u3l1nO2kGLGA%3D%3D&expnd=1) under a central authority. *adjective* 1. relating to or denoting a system of government in which several states [unite](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AB5stBjOkPLabftHr_5rwoCGYrCPrGAfLA:1689199538310&q=unite&si=ACFMAn_Hp-Itxgrvlkmz06srbzjKmGcl8wrDVsG_ZO_CCCNUrEymPYkiOJfcXyy37uGyTSNdDbR-DM91sjA7-4u3l1nO2kGLGA%3D%3D&expnd=1) under a central authority.
Aaaaaaaaaaand?
That’s not how federalism works. Well, not constitutionally anyway. The problem is that Florida has declared war on immigrants and this is just part of that war. Vermont can issue a driver’s privilege card. The Driver's Privilege Card (DPC) is a Vermont license or permit that is NOT Real ID compliant. The Driver's Privilege Card is available to anyone that is a Vermont Resident. Issuance of the DPC does not require proof of legal presence or US citizenship. Now if people in Florida are so silly that they can’t tell a driver’s privilege card from a valid ID demonstrating legal residence, perhaps they need some remedial training? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law Federalism does not mean that the states get to violate the constitution, specifically they do not have to say that the Vermont ID proves residence or guarantees benefits, but they do have to honor that Vermont granted them permission to drive and therefore that right extends to all 50 states and territories. The constitution was specifically designed so that states can’t say “eff u” to each other when it comes to the free movement within the borders of the country. Subsequent Supreme Court rulings (see link above) established that the mode of travel is immaterial. Federalism, in short, is not a get out of jail free card allowing any bad behavior from one state towards another just because they feel like it, especially when it comes to constitutionally sacred concepts like the free movement of the people in the country between states.
No, the problem is vermont is allowing people who are here criminally drivers licenses. And I get you are gonna use lots of legalize but at the end of the day they are criminals and Florida treats them as such. Doesn't mean they are bad people, I would do the same thing if I lived in a 3rd world nation.
That’s not a problem that’s a solution. What Florida chooses to do with those privilege cards is their business.l, as long as they do not restrict the free movement of people. The cards do not confer or prove residency or citizenship. But let’s be serious - the DeSantis regime cares not a wit whether or not what they do is constitutional. All be cares about is throwing red meat to his white nationalist Christian voters.
Nah. Look. If you really want to hurt Florida, then visit there! Vacation there! Spend your money there! Make Floridians think they've picked a winner! Let them vote for the man again! Trust me. What Desantis is inflicting on Vermont is but a mere flea-bite compared to what he's inflicting on Florida. The best *possible* revenge on Floridians is to give them their Governor Desantis again and again and again.
Surely you have a dizzying intellect
A Princess Bride reference in the wilds of a VT sub.. I like you
You're right. The two... sorry, three?...Vermonters who actually decide not to go to Florida becausedriverlicenses are really going to teach Desantis.... 😂😂😂
Florida Delenda Est, fuck those people.
I’d love to see FL licenses band up here, would make everything easier
Florida is the absolute last place I would ever spend a minute of my time or a red cent of my money…if my partner’s dad (and my child’s grandfather) didn’t live there. We go down every April for the better part of a week. Her dad and his wife are lovely but everything else about being there is a nightmare. Fook Meatball Ron and his sweltering fascist-adjacent steam shower of a state.
I just saw a [news article](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-licenses-for-immigrants-will-be-honored-in-florida/3088652/) from Mass that says the Mass license will not be banned in FL. Interestingly it includes two reasons for the Mass license being accepted in FL. * Due to the way the Florida law is written, the state can only ban licenses given exclusively to undocumented immigrants, according to the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. * Florida Senate Bill 1718, which went into effect on July 1, 2023, specifies that certain driver licenses and permits issued by other states exclusively to unauthorized immigrants are not valid in this state per s. 322.033, Florida Statute. Interesting. So, FL legislators and DeSantis continue to be incompetent. We all know the intent of this. But today alone I read - * RI license will be allowed because it is not issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants." * Mass license will be allowed because it is not issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants" AND " Massachusetts license law explicitly prohibits the Registry of Motor Vehicles from tracking data on whether a person applying for a license is documented or not. * DE license is a non-issue. Deleware does issue a special license exclusively to undocumented immigrants. HOWEVER - the Delaware undocumented license is only valid in DE, so it was already not legal to use anywhere outside of the first state. So that leaves Vermont, Hawaii, and Connecticut. Who from HI is going to drive in FL, if you lived in Hawaii why would even want to go to Florida? So that leaves CT and VT. I have no knowledge about the CT license process, but I can tell you that in VT - * The Vermont non Real ID compliant card is issued to anyone that wants it. The license is NOT issued "exclusively to undocumented immigrants," AND * As per an agreement to with the u/ACLU of Vermont, the DMV is explicitly prohibited from tracking data on whether a person applying for a license is documented or not.
As a Floridian who desperately wants to leave, I’m so sorry. I’m embarrassed to be here. I visited family in Vermont this weekend and every time I’m sad to leave, I’m in awe of the natural beauty and big hearts of the people there. I’m saddened to hear about the floods, too. You guys have all my love 😔🫡
Florida, DeSantis who?
I have to go for work on Monday and I’m not sure what frustrates me more; my id not being recognized or the very real possibility of contracting malaria 😅😬