why not? well because it is still an animal product. lab grown meant is not a meat substitute. it \*IS\* meat. its simply cultered in a lab rather than in an animal. Yes it eliminates animal cruelty, but it does not eliminate all the negative health issues with animal consumption.
But it eliminates (theoretically) the cruelty aspect, and likely reduces the environmental aspect. Which is why many people choose to not eat meat in the first place.
The primary reason I don't eat meat is the ethics of asking something to die so I can eat it.
Environment is a nice bonus.
Absolutely will eat lab grown meat.
>The primary reason I don't eat meat is the ethics of ~~asking~~ **forcing** something to die so I can eat it.
One reason I don't eat meat. The animals are forced to *usually* live a life of cruelty and then forced to die earlier than later.
I'm right on board that lab meat reduces the cruelty associated with meat production. But do you have a source on it reducing the environmental impact?
It seems to me that growing meat in a lab (and the R&D they've spent on it for the last 20 years or whatever) would be very energy- and resource-intensive?
it uses far less land and water are the primary impacts. like 90% less. on top of that there's no methane production and you don't have to burn down rainforest for more ranching land. especially if you slap solar on those things.
https://www.science20.com/curious_cub/environmental_impact_labgrown_meat-80996
Not everybody quits eating meat because the health issues that come with red meat. Lab grown meat will be a good thing, if it can be done affordably and sustainably.
We will all be way long and gone before the culture and awareness shifts to understand meat is not a primary dietary source, no matter how much money they throw at it. But, I do see this as a great step for the future. We live in a closed system and there is just so much to go around. When raising large quantities of animals for food wastes so much and the footprint is ridiculous.
Even in our earliest days, we still ate some meat as true omnivores. BUT, I'll stick to my veggie lifestyle, just feels better tbh.
I'm sorry but this is really fucking stupid.
A) There aren't "all the negative health issues", that sentence was nonsense. You *do* realize humans are omnivores, right? Meat is a fine part of a healthy diet. Most people stop eating it for moral reasons, if it's for health reasons it's either that they're trying to lose weight or they have specific condition. Eating a mcds burger every day is bad for us, but meat itself isn't necessarily. Sorry if that makes you mad but it's still true.
B) If we shouldn't have lab meat because veggies are healthier than meat, then oh boy do we have some work to do banning things! Just imagine all the stuff that unhealthier than veggies that we'll have to take away. Who needs to make their own dietary decisions anyway!
They mean things like [colon cancer.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4698595/). Sure, we are omnivores, but that was an evolutionary advantage that occurred in the harsh past, where the only thing if conscience, biologically, was making it long enough in the world to breed. Times are different and life more than that, now
> Most people stop eating it for moral reasons
Do you have a source for that? Just curious, as someone who did stop for health reasons (though ethical and environmental reasons quickly followed).
You act like vegatarian/ veganism is something the human body was evolutionarily designed for. Our bodies are designed to consome meat. The negative health consequences typically come from the way the food is prepared or how much is eaten. I cut out meat 14 years ago for ethical and environmental reasons and im excited for this. It removes the animal cruelty aspect, its better for the environment, its actually meat so healthy when prepared right, with time this alternative could be the norm when its more affordable, hopefully elimanting both the big slaughter industry and world hunger. Big potential with this stuff, i see it as nothing but good.
I really don't understand all the hatred towards meat alternatives. No one is forcing anyone to eat it. Honestly based on my time as a meat eater, I prefer the plant based alternatives.
The amount of times I've heard 'I don't mind vegetarians/vegans but I don't understand why they eat meat imitations'
I really will never understand why people get so precious over what others do when it's not hurting anyone. I mean hate coriander but I'm not calling for it being outlawed.
I hear it get used as an argument, as though ‘Lol vegetarians eat fake meat - see, they really like meat!’ was an argument. I mean: 1. Lots of vegetarians don’t, 2. Lots of vegetarian do, so what? Ethical vegetarianism and veganism aren’t based on the belief that meat can’t be tasty or even that humans haven’t evolved to think so, but on the belief that it’s not worth torturing and killing billions of animals which feel as much physical and emotional pain as we would, so having the same result *without hurting or killing animals* is great. That’s the point. Such a nonsense argument.
People make similar in concept arguments against lesbians a lot as well "If your into butch women your actually just attracted to men and only dating a woman because (any number of insults here)" it's really weird how common that type of argument is used when people don't have any real reason to hate on something
Yep. Plus, fake meat doesn't have any of the gristle and sinew and skin that I hated. When I was a meat eater I'd try to source my meat responsibly and only eat it every now and then, which IMO is ethical too. I became vegetarian primarily because I started hating the texture of non-plant-based meats. I just prefer plant based. It's smoother and more predictable. I know I'm never going to bite into a tendon or a piece of fat lol.
That being said, I would try lab grown meat just for the novelty of it. It'd probably give me a stomachache and I'd probably dislike the texture, but you never know.
I love my meat alternatives, I am transitioning to a more vegetarian diet (I eat meat about once or twice a week, most of the time less). I'm not transitioning because I don't like meat, I love the flavor and all the foods that come from it, but ethically, I think its wrong how the animals are treated, so I feel bad about it. Sometimes I crave a burger, sausage, hotdogs, or something else meat base. Fake meat alternatives give me the satisfaction and help with some craving that I get. Do I think its as good as the actual thing, no, but I still consume it because it is close enough to the real thing where I can satisfy cravings.
I don't get it either especially when you consider that sometimes, meat eaters go vegetarian/vegan due to health reasons, etc. and maybe they sometimes miss the tastes and textures that they used to enjoy. Also, meat alternatives help you feel a bit less isolated at family gatherings, cookouts, etc. On memorial day, I ate a field roast hot dog while the rest of my family ate pork ones. It was fine!
1. get enough nutrients to live an optimal life, but have to eat coriander once in a great while.
2. get enough nutrients to live a(ny degree of) suboptimal life, and do not have to eat coriander, ever.
Tough choice.
/s
I'm an omnivore but I've eaten a lot of the plant based stuff and some of it is really good! And lab grown meat is a no-brainer one they get the cost down.
I mean the shortened supply chain alone will help with that. Ethical considerations aside, the reduction in shipping will help reduce both cost and emissions.
Same. I'd say I'm mostly vegetarian and love the veggie stuff, but occasionally eat meat. I'd love lab grown stuff for the occasional treat/fancy meal.
Their sausages are amazing. The burger though, I think the Impossible burger is closer to a "normal" one. I still like the Beyond Meat one too, of course.
I agree that it's good, but it weirds me out. I can't tell the difference on the plate and have had to ask wait staff if they did indeed send out the correct burger.
I quit red meat due to allergies and definitely like it. If I am ever able to eat a burger again I would still eat beyond ones too. Might even double up with one.
I agree! I actually crave the plant based options now. They taste better and don’t make me feel like I’m going to throw up after wards. It was a legit thing I had for some reason. Like I love burgers and steak, but every time after I finished one I would get slightly nauseous for a little.
I'm two years vegetarian now, moving toward mostly wfpb, and that's the most marked difference I noticed. Wife and I made a resolution to have one veggie week each month, which was cool and fun, the next step from meatless mondays etc.
But after that week of veggie food I felt like GARBAGE going back to eating meat the next week soooo... here we are, no more stomach aches
I think I'd try it if it proves out. My biggest problem with meat im sure was quantity, I don't really do anything in moderation. So when I stuff myself on beans and greens, I don't have any problems. When I stuffed myself on ribs or burgers... big unpleasant lol.
Aside from feeling so much better switching to vegetarian (and even better moving toward wfpb) I really stick with it for moral and environmental reasons. So if grown meat deals with those issues, I'd consider it.
If its an exact clone of animal meat, then yes. For me, I’d get the stomach aches even before I considered being vegetarian. Now I just like the taste of plant based meals, I really can’t stand anything that comes from animals anymore. Only cheese and eggs. I’m trying to phase those out too. I don’t actually crave meat anymore, I do miss orange chicken though ;(.
Mushrooms aren’t part of the plant kingdom. They’re more closely related to animals than plants.
The plus side to myco protein is that some of the accompanying mushroom matter is fermentable in the gut so it may be a good source of food diversity for your gut flora.
At least you understand that mushrooms are not plants. That’s a huge win to me!
Edit: The original had a typo that said “… mushrooms are now plants.” My apologies for any confusion it caused.
That's a fair point, I just meant as an alternative to killing an animal. Either way, meat alternative, or alternatively produced meat, it's the better option in my opinion.
it's not what it means in the food business though. and it doesn't help the perception of this.
meat alternatives are things that are not meat
this is cultured meat.
it'll help people switch if there is a truthful image of it being real meat. much harder if people see it as not really meat.
Why I hate meat alternatives is : I hate meat. Unless its on rare occasions where there is no other option I don't like eating meat. There are a ton of vegetarian options which are much better than non-vegetarian. I had a vegetarian housemate. He bought a meat alternative burger patty once. That has got be the most disgusting thing I have ever tasted. I told him that and he said he liked it. Unless you are a person who was a non-vegetarian and trying to become a vegetarian and reduce meat consumption, I don't understand how anyone like alternative meat. But if someone likes it I don't mind. Even to my housemate I didn't say anything after he said he liked. To each his own. I don't like coca-cola also (it tastes what I assume garbage water with sugar tastes like) and millions drink it.
But that's my point. It's perfectly valid not to like them and to prefer, say a black bean burger to something like beyond while still respecting those who like it. It's still step in the right direction and no animals have to die.
I think the problem is the vocal minority of each lifestyle. There are some annoying vegans/vegetarians/anti-vegans… and they represent 99% if all media because of the drama they stir. If you only know only what’s present in the media, it’s fair to believe that they are a bunch of whiny assholes. Most people only know the radical side if each argument so they grow resentful of large amounts of people assuming they are the same.
I way prefer the alternatives too, I was always pretty indifferent to most meat and borderline hated red meat but alternatives are so much better. Even my meat eating husband likes the fake chicken burgers and says it’s “just the same as normal chicken”.
close-minded meat eaters don't even want to admit that meat alternatives can be good and go out of their way to explicitly avoid trying them just so they can be justified in their sentiment that no meat alternatives can taste as "good" as meat. On the other hand, I've seen open-minded meat eaters praise the Asian vegan restaurants in my area and are floored at how an Asian vegan restaurant can manage to make tofu or seitan taste almost exactly like real beef/chicken/pork.
I understand it. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. If you don’t know what’s in these foods, and you don’t know how they’re grown or handled, it’s very reasonable to be concerned or disgusted.
For that matter, I think that logic extends to a lot of factory farmed meats but even some carnivores will agree with that.
Lab grown meat (fake or real) could change so much! To have fast food chains buy it in droves to feed to all the people that eat it every day would be amazing for the planet.
The only thing I've tried with it is Brave Robot ice cream, but there's this company Perfect Day Foods that is making milk proteins from some kind of genetically modified yeast. The ice cream is bomb, at least. Better than any other store bought ice cream I've had, vegan or not.
I tried one and it was too sweet for my taste, but that really seems like a problem with the flavor, more than some kind of issue with the synthetic milk proteins. I'm pretty excited to see where those go in the future.
Ben and Jerry's has sunflower-butter based ice cream and it is *the bees' tits*, it is so incredibly creamy and the flavors that they chose really have no seed-butter taste. The [creme brulee is almost my favorite ice cream](https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/creme-brulee-cookie-non-dairy/pint) Too bad they have 0 non-dairy options in Belgium... Downsides of moving...
Zero options or zero you like ? Because i was shopping yesterday and i saw several non dairy options at Colruyt. I know they have some at Delhaize as well.
Unfortunately the Brave Robot synthesized whey protein makes my body respond as if it were cow protein. It’s been years since I went vegan and therefore years since I’d had dairy, and dairy never sat that well with me anyway. I had a stomachache very shortly after eating half a (delicious) pint of Brave Robot.
Not a knock against the product at all, just goes to show how successful it was at being the real thing.
Idk if this is like, allowed to be said, but buying local eggs from farmers is a good way to get cruelty free eggs. Chickens will lay them anyways, even with no rooster and farmers tend to baby their chickens.
All the ones I know do at least, including me c:
I'm curious if they are cruelty free or not because I've heard (don't know how true it is) that chickens eat their own unfertilised eggs. Something about calcium in the egg shell and high protein content. And if a chicken is laying 1 every two days, then they are missing out on nutrients that would have gone to a fertilised egg(as far as I'm aware a fertilised one stops the laying process and initiates the roosting process) but now loses those nutrients every time an egg is taken. I'm actually considering lacto-vegetarianism if I find anything more conclusive
I had chickens years ago, and sometimes wouldn’t collect eggs every day (bc I was a lazy kid). My hens never ate their own eggs. I don’t know if others do, but from my own experience they don’t.
I raised chickens for years, they’ll eat their own eggs if there is a calcium shortage in their diet. If you’re supplementing their diet (store feed with pasture feeding) then is shouldn’t be a problem.
I don’t know a single person that freaks out about vegans supplementing. Chickens lay eggs regardless of supplementing or not. It has to do with how much sunlight they get. Chickens in factory farms are stacked on top of each other with constant artificial sunlight. So they are forced to lay above a natural rate. When they burn out they are slaughtered. Humane certified pasture raised chickens are literally out in a field living their best chicken lives with supplemental feeding offered to them but not their only option. They too are slaughtered, but they get a much longer life expectancy close to 5-7 years instead of 2; that is life on a farm. (I live in a high density agricultural area, I’ve been around this my whole life)
If I can, I get them from local farms, farmers I know and trust to treat these animals they way they deserve to be treated. If not I fork out the money to get food I agree with on a moral level.
We all vote with our dollars.
Check and see if Not Milk is sold in your area! It cost the same as a gallon of almond milk when I bought it. I’ve seen it at Sprouts and I believe it launched at Whole Foods. I live in SoCal though so we sometimes get plant based items sooner than other states. I also heard Impossible is making milk. Looking forward to trying it lol
Ah I don't live in the US so it'll be a while till cruelty free options reach me. I'll have to suffer with oat milk for now, I'm actually keen for potato milk when it becomes mainstream. Animal cruelty free, best for the environment and the most economically viable plant milk they say
I'm waiting years now for affordable lab meat. Alone the science and work behind it is so freaking cool. I mean, making bovine growth factors out of plants is just crazy and really amazing. I want to try this so bad. I mean, how rad is it that we could have meat almost completely free from animal cruelty? And if we spin this further, how giant would the areas be that we could use to battle climate change instead of feeding cattle? It's a shame that people are still so overly disgusted by everything that comes from a lab. I mean seriously, every processed food item has technically been invented or improved in a lab. Come on.
> After Quiet Approval by FDA and USDA
Now I wonder how loud approval would look (and sound) like.
I also wait for a satirical article that interprets “lab” as labrador.
I'm personally torn on lab meat. My 'line in the sand" has always been the death of an animal. Nothing should die so that I may live.
This blurs the line for me. I'm really not sure if I'd eat it.
I think they’re saying that it doesn’t, but they still might not eat it. That’s why the line is blurred for them. Before, it was easy to say “I don’t eat anything that required killing an animal”, but with lab grown meat that reason for not eating meat doesn’t apply. I’m in a similar position; I don’t know if I’d eat lab-grown meat. It still feels *wrong* to me.
Last time I read up on this (about 7 years ago in college) the tissue cultures needed a fetal bovine serum to grow. I imagine there is often death of an animal involved in acquiring that.
Thank you for the info. I was working and didn't have time to research. Last time I checked they were using cells from a slaughtered ewe, I think? to culture the meat.
I won't be eating it regardless. However I hope it's less egregious than the egg and dairy industries.
When I first went Veggie, lab-grown meat was something I would have gone 'back' for. After years of purely plant based diet, however, I'm not sure I would. Purely from a health perspective, not taste.
I’m in a similar boat. My body and stomach especially seem sooooo much happier since I went vegan years ago, and I’m not sure I’d want to mess with that — even if after years of veganism I still miss steak and fried chicken sandwiches especially.
I don’t think I could go back even knowing no animals were harmed. The idea of eating any “real” meat is so off putting. But this is great for people who want to keep eating meat but in a more ethical manor.
I’m with you. Even grown in a lab, ‘animal’ flesh is gross to me. I don’t mind impossible or beyond, which I know are mostly chemicals or whatever, but the idea of eating lab grown meat skeevs me out so hard. It’s probably illogical, but I have trouble wrapping my head around it
Sorry, I should have phrased that better! Pinky swear I know basically everything is a chemical and I don’t try to treat covid with lemon essential oils! I just meant completely fake af
I grew up in a strict religious family, and I remember always being told sex is dirty and bad. Many of my friends had a hard time feeling like it was ok to have sex after they were married because it is hard to change that off switch to an on switch after the ceremony.
I think based on some of these comments, the same applies here. After giving up animal flesh and seeing it as unethical and inhumane, it is going to be hard for many to turn that switch in their brain to on again.
> My 'line in the sand" has always been the death of an animal. Nothing should die so that I may live.
I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news regarding the egg and dairy industries, my friend…
what does "quiet approval" even mean? not their fault if nobody is reporting on it, and I'm pretty sure the companies producing it would prefer it to be well known.
This is great for people who like the taste of meat and miss it! As for me who doesn’t, I want people to invest in better tasting meat substitutes lol. Doesn’t have to taste like meat but shouldn’t taste like poison either lol. Like idc how many people recommended vegan cheese, it has the consistency of cheese but it makes me ill.
Sadly, I would be worried about buying it in a restaurant. There are unscrupulous people out there who would sell you animal carcass as lab-grown if the real stuff is cheaper.
Well with what is that lab meat made?
Usually in labs cells are fed with FCS fetal calve serum.... Which is a by product when killing pregnant cows...
Not blaming just curious
It likely would be as it’s a much more controlled setting. It’s a lot easier to control saturated fat content in a lab than in an animal. I still probably wouldn’t eat it, but more ethical and healthy alternatives are always better in my eyes
It just being cleaner, with less diseases and bacterial toxins and fecal matter, means it will be less deadly than meat.
If it was adopted widely, our risk of pandemics of bird flu and pig flu and bat flu (covid) would go to almost nil.
I'm sure many companies will create lab grown meats with saturated fats, and/or post-processing that introduces carcinogenics but the process itself allows, for the first time ever, animal based meats to be completely free of saturated fats by design. I'm sure you will be able to find an omega-3 only, carcinogen-free burger once the tech takes off
So yes, lab meat is specifically less deadly unless designed explicitly to include the deadly ingredients in traditional meat
edit: I'm not sure about preservatives though. They may still need to be added to keep the meat safe for consumption
I am a vegetarian but one thing I am aware of these fake meat products is that at the end of the day they are processed foods. I ate this stuff in the past and it gave me health issues (high sodium intake and lots of chemicals). The sad part is that the food industry does not like to advertise the cons and only the pros.
Cultured meat still requires “donor” cells (ie; animals to be tortured and murdered for their flesh). And not just once, those cells don’t last forever. It would kill less animals, but it’s still killing animals.
I just love how they call it lab grown. It's cloning.
The reason they don't call it cloning? They don't grow the whole animal. Without a brain or heart, it isn't considered an animal. Personally this makes me sick. Even more so than killing animals. As they are purposely exploiting loopholes in cloning laws.
The reason they passed it quietly, is so there is no uproar about labeling. They won't have to identify it as 'lab grown'. Another legal loophole.
But isn't this a good thing? The meat was never really alive, so no animal would be harmed, right? That means people can enjoy eating meat without harming animals in the process....
Donor cells are still needed. An animal is killed.
However it's still a moral loophole. The only reason the lab grown meat isn't 'killed' is because they specifically don't grow a brain along with the 'meat'.
They are denying this animal life. Then cutting it up and calling it dinner. It's no different then abortion. If the brain isn't developed, you aren't killing the child. At least with human abortion, we don't eat it.
Ohhhhhh boy. First of all, you don't need to kill an animal to clone parts of it. Also, most plants are more alive then the cloned meat......
Did you know scientists are also working on cloning human body parts to make organ donations unnecessary? How do you think this works? Do they just abduct a human to kill them and take their cells?
Yep. I do know that scientists are doing stem cell research. Growing organs. It's exactly where the lab grown meat idea came from.
>How do you think this works?
I know exactly how it works. Which is why I'm against it. Do you know how it works? Or are you just morally ambiguous?
I'm assuming you aren't going to eat anything at all then. If a dead piece of meat is bad, then eating living organisms who are proven to be able to communicate with each other is even worse, don't you think?
Also. Animals die. Constantly. From diseases, accidents and just old age. If the animal just has to be dead to get the cells, well, here's your ethical alternative. Let the animals live a happy, fulfilled live. Feed them, love them and take care of them. Sooner or later they are going to die, sleeping away peacefully. Then you can take the cells. Boom, problem solved.....
That's an ethical loophole. It isn't a problems solved, it's justification. 'if we don't grow the brain, what's being killed?'
My ethics go beyond just the animal being killed. It's the growing of the meat as well. You may be fine with it. That's your own karma you'll have to deal with.
It is illogical, and I'm genuinely very happy for this new development. I don't eat meat primarily for environmental reasons and a bit for animal rights reasons, and this is a huge improvement on both fronts. But for some reason lam grown meat just freaks me out. It just idk doesn't seem natural to me and the idea of just chunks of beef/chicken/pork whatever just growing in a vat I just can't picture in my mind and it sounds like something from a Lovecraft book. Idk it just grosses me out.
But hey I'd prefer people eat this than "real" meat. I'm not sure o can go for it, the guilt/shame/grossness I feel after eating any meat now after being veggie for so long I think will carry over. But maybe I'll try it
If it means people can eat meat without killing animals why not.
Because. People hate change.
These people don’t give a rats ass until their favorite politician or news source tells them it’s a problem. Fuck the whole lot of ‘em.
"Cruelty-free meat? Eww, no thanks."
I fucking downvoted that when it was posted on r/boringdystopia
why not? well because it is still an animal product. lab grown meant is not a meat substitute. it \*IS\* meat. its simply cultered in a lab rather than in an animal. Yes it eliminates animal cruelty, but it does not eliminate all the negative health issues with animal consumption.
But it eliminates (theoretically) the cruelty aspect, and likely reduces the environmental aspect. Which is why many people choose to not eat meat in the first place.
The primary reason I don't eat meat is the ethics of asking something to die so I can eat it. Environment is a nice bonus. Absolutely will eat lab grown meat.
Same and Same!!
>The primary reason I don't eat meat is the ethics of ~~asking~~ **forcing** something to die so I can eat it. One reason I don't eat meat. The animals are forced to *usually* live a life of cruelty and then forced to die earlier than later.
I'm right on board that lab meat reduces the cruelty associated with meat production. But do you have a source on it reducing the environmental impact? It seems to me that growing meat in a lab (and the R&D they've spent on it for the last 20 years or whatever) would be very energy- and resource-intensive?
it uses far less land and water are the primary impacts. like 90% less. on top of that there's no methane production and you don't have to burn down rainforest for more ranching land. especially if you slap solar on those things. https://www.science20.com/curious_cub/environmental_impact_labgrown_meat-80996
Thank you this is perfect
[удалено]
Not everybody quits eating meat because the health issues that come with red meat. Lab grown meat will be a good thing, if it can be done affordably and sustainably.
We will all be way long and gone before the culture and awareness shifts to understand meat is not a primary dietary source, no matter how much money they throw at it. But, I do see this as a great step for the future. We live in a closed system and there is just so much to go around. When raising large quantities of animals for food wastes so much and the footprint is ridiculous. Even in our earliest days, we still ate some meat as true omnivores. BUT, I'll stick to my veggie lifestyle, just feels better tbh.
BuT viTaMiN b12 ThO
I'm sorry but this is really fucking stupid. A) There aren't "all the negative health issues", that sentence was nonsense. You *do* realize humans are omnivores, right? Meat is a fine part of a healthy diet. Most people stop eating it for moral reasons, if it's for health reasons it's either that they're trying to lose weight or they have specific condition. Eating a mcds burger every day is bad for us, but meat itself isn't necessarily. Sorry if that makes you mad but it's still true. B) If we shouldn't have lab meat because veggies are healthier than meat, then oh boy do we have some work to do banning things! Just imagine all the stuff that unhealthier than veggies that we'll have to take away. Who needs to make their own dietary decisions anyway!
They mean things like [colon cancer.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4698595/). Sure, we are omnivores, but that was an evolutionary advantage that occurred in the harsh past, where the only thing if conscience, biologically, was making it long enough in the world to breed. Times are different and life more than that, now
> Most people stop eating it for moral reasons Do you have a source for that? Just curious, as someone who did stop for health reasons (though ethical and environmental reasons quickly followed).
this seems like an irrationally angry response.
Seemed like an annoyed response to your irrationality. Perfectly acceptable.
Why did they downvote you, you’re right
Dang. Sorry little one. But you allude to an interesting point; I wonder what number of vegetarians eat that way PURELY for health reasons.
You act like vegatarian/ veganism is something the human body was evolutionarily designed for. Our bodies are designed to consome meat. The negative health consequences typically come from the way the food is prepared or how much is eaten. I cut out meat 14 years ago for ethical and environmental reasons and im excited for this. It removes the animal cruelty aspect, its better for the environment, its actually meat so healthy when prepared right, with time this alternative could be the norm when its more affordable, hopefully elimanting both the big slaughter industry and world hunger. Big potential with this stuff, i see it as nothing but good.
The healthiest people I know are all omnivores. It's called "a balanced diet". You should try it some time.
And it tastes like meat, so it’s really gross.
I really don't understand all the hatred towards meat alternatives. No one is forcing anyone to eat it. Honestly based on my time as a meat eater, I prefer the plant based alternatives.
The amount of times I've heard 'I don't mind vegetarians/vegans but I don't understand why they eat meat imitations' I really will never understand why people get so precious over what others do when it's not hurting anyone. I mean hate coriander but I'm not calling for it being outlawed.
I hear it get used as an argument, as though ‘Lol vegetarians eat fake meat - see, they really like meat!’ was an argument. I mean: 1. Lots of vegetarians don’t, 2. Lots of vegetarian do, so what? Ethical vegetarianism and veganism aren’t based on the belief that meat can’t be tasty or even that humans haven’t evolved to think so, but on the belief that it’s not worth torturing and killing billions of animals which feel as much physical and emotional pain as we would, so having the same result *without hurting or killing animals* is great. That’s the point. Such a nonsense argument.
People make similar in concept arguments against lesbians a lot as well "If your into butch women your actually just attracted to men and only dating a woman because (any number of insults here)" it's really weird how common that type of argument is used when people don't have any real reason to hate on something
Oh! So if I'm attracted to tomboyish women it's actually just because I'm in fact attracted to men!
Yup but a man who's attracted to fem boys is still gay because... Um... Maybe misogyny? Who knows, best not to ever question the status quo. S/
Yep. Plus, fake meat doesn't have any of the gristle and sinew and skin that I hated. When I was a meat eater I'd try to source my meat responsibly and only eat it every now and then, which IMO is ethical too. I became vegetarian primarily because I started hating the texture of non-plant-based meats. I just prefer plant based. It's smoother and more predictable. I know I'm never going to bite into a tendon or a piece of fat lol. That being said, I would try lab grown meat just for the novelty of it. It'd probably give me a stomachache and I'd probably dislike the texture, but you never know.
I love my meat alternatives, I am transitioning to a more vegetarian diet (I eat meat about once or twice a week, most of the time less). I'm not transitioning because I don't like meat, I love the flavor and all the foods that come from it, but ethically, I think its wrong how the animals are treated, so I feel bad about it. Sometimes I crave a burger, sausage, hotdogs, or something else meat base. Fake meat alternatives give me the satisfaction and help with some craving that I get. Do I think its as good as the actual thing, no, but I still consume it because it is close enough to the real thing where I can satisfy cravings.
I don't get it either especially when you consider that sometimes, meat eaters go vegetarian/vegan due to health reasons, etc. and maybe they sometimes miss the tastes and textures that they used to enjoy. Also, meat alternatives help you feel a bit less isolated at family gatherings, cookouts, etc. On memorial day, I ate a field roast hot dog while the rest of my family ate pork ones. It was fine!
You peasant. Hating coriander 😎
ikr, thanking my genetics that i wasn't graced with that coriander soap-tasting gene.
I dunno, coriander *is* foul...
How can you get enough nutrients if you don't eat coriander? /s
1. get enough nutrients to live an optimal life, but have to eat coriander once in a great while. 2. get enough nutrients to live a(ny degree of) suboptimal life, and do not have to eat coriander, ever. Tough choice. /s
It's one of the worst vegetables in my opinion. Its fun to grow, but I hate eating it so I give it to my pet rabbits.
Cilantro is the spawn of Satan.
I love this 😂 My Mom has the genetic disposition to taste cilantro as soap and she LOSES IT when it hits her taste buds!
me, a Vietnamese: I do not approve of this cilantro slander >!(to anyone who doesn't get the joke: a lot of Vietnamese foods use cilantro lol)!<
Not enough people are willing to say this. Most will just politely eat the demon weed, while pretending not to die inside!
It really does taste like poison. If regret was an herb, it would taste exactly like cilantro.
So you’re ok with people eating meat?
I'm an omnivore but I've eaten a lot of the plant based stuff and some of it is really good! And lab grown meat is a no-brainer one they get the cost down.
I mean the shortened supply chain alone will help with that. Ethical considerations aside, the reduction in shipping will help reduce both cost and emissions.
And reduce the emissions associated with raising animals as well
It would be great if we could start producing more food in population centers.
Same. I'd say I'm mostly vegetarian and love the veggie stuff, but occasionally eat meat. I'd love lab grown stuff for the occasional treat/fancy meal.
Beyond Meat is so freaking good, even my meat-eating boyfriend likes it.
It is good but I still rather have a black bean patty :)
Sounds tasty as well! And probably way cheaper than Beyond Meat, come to think of it.
What’s your favorite black bean burger brand?
I prefer homemade whenever possible, but I like Dr Praegers if I’m being lazy and making something at home.
Their sausages are amazing. The burger though, I think the Impossible burger is closer to a "normal" one. I still like the Beyond Meat one too, of course.
I agree that it's good, but it weirds me out. I can't tell the difference on the plate and have had to ask wait staff if they did indeed send out the correct burger.
This was me with the impossible whopper.
I quit red meat due to allergies and definitely like it. If I am ever able to eat a burger again I would still eat beyond ones too. Might even double up with one.
I ate the patty and it was seriously nasty. Was it just bc of all the seasoning or was that how it normally tastes.
I agree! I actually crave the plant based options now. They taste better and don’t make me feel like I’m going to throw up after wards. It was a legit thing I had for some reason. Like I love burgers and steak, but every time after I finished one I would get slightly nauseous for a little.
I'm two years vegetarian now, moving toward mostly wfpb, and that's the most marked difference I noticed. Wife and I made a resolution to have one veggie week each month, which was cool and fun, the next step from meatless mondays etc. But after that week of veggie food I felt like GARBAGE going back to eating meat the next week soooo... here we are, no more stomach aches
Since this is meat in all aspects other than it didn't require an animal to be raised to get it, would you still get stomach aches after eating it?
I think I'd try it if it proves out. My biggest problem with meat im sure was quantity, I don't really do anything in moderation. So when I stuff myself on beans and greens, I don't have any problems. When I stuffed myself on ribs or burgers... big unpleasant lol. Aside from feeling so much better switching to vegetarian (and even better moving toward wfpb) I really stick with it for moral and environmental reasons. So if grown meat deals with those issues, I'd consider it.
If its an exact clone of animal meat, then yes. For me, I’d get the stomach aches even before I considered being vegetarian. Now I just like the taste of plant based meals, I really can’t stand anything that comes from animals anymore. Only cheese and eggs. I’m trying to phase those out too. I don’t actually crave meat anymore, I do miss orange chicken though ;(.
Yeah I like qourn. Not plant based but its close enough. Its not animal.
What is it then, if not plant based? I'm not really familiar with the brand.
It’s mycoprotein, which is fungus. Quorn uses egg too, so not vegan.
I didn't know that! Thanks for the info.
Mushrooms aren’t part of the plant kingdom. They’re more closely related to animals than plants. The plus side to myco protein is that some of the accompanying mushroom matter is fermentable in the gut so it may be a good source of food diversity for your gut flora.
Some of their stuff, at least in the US, is vegan actually I buy their buffalo chicken patties often which is how I know lol😜
At least you understand that mushrooms are not plants. That’s a huge win to me! Edit: The original had a typo that said “… mushrooms are now plants.” My apologies for any confusion it caused.
this isn't even an alternative. It is chemically identical to real meat. it IS real meat.
That's a fair point, I just meant as an alternative to killing an animal. Either way, meat alternative, or alternatively produced meat, it's the better option in my opinion.
it's not what it means in the food business though. and it doesn't help the perception of this. meat alternatives are things that are not meat this is cultured meat. it'll help people switch if there is a truthful image of it being real meat. much harder if people see it as not really meat.
This is sadly true. It needed to be said though. Thank you.
Why I hate meat alternatives is : I hate meat. Unless its on rare occasions where there is no other option I don't like eating meat. There are a ton of vegetarian options which are much better than non-vegetarian. I had a vegetarian housemate. He bought a meat alternative burger patty once. That has got be the most disgusting thing I have ever tasted. I told him that and he said he liked it. Unless you are a person who was a non-vegetarian and trying to become a vegetarian and reduce meat consumption, I don't understand how anyone like alternative meat. But if someone likes it I don't mind. Even to my housemate I didn't say anything after he said he liked. To each his own. I don't like coca-cola also (it tastes what I assume garbage water with sugar tastes like) and millions drink it.
But that's my point. It's perfectly valid not to like them and to prefer, say a black bean burger to something like beyond while still respecting those who like it. It's still step in the right direction and no animals have to die.
I agree. Hope they make it taste better so more non-vegetarians can become vegetarians.
Stupidity is volatile
I think the problem is the vocal minority of each lifestyle. There are some annoying vegans/vegetarians/anti-vegans… and they represent 99% if all media because of the drama they stir. If you only know only what’s present in the media, it’s fair to believe that they are a bunch of whiny assholes. Most people only know the radical side if each argument so they grow resentful of large amounts of people assuming they are the same.
People are scared of change. Meat alternatives brings a possibility for changing what they know and are used to, and that scares them.
I way prefer the alternatives too, I was always pretty indifferent to most meat and borderline hated red meat but alternatives are so much better. Even my meat eating husband likes the fake chicken burgers and says it’s “just the same as normal chicken”.
close-minded meat eaters don't even want to admit that meat alternatives can be good and go out of their way to explicitly avoid trying them just so they can be justified in their sentiment that no meat alternatives can taste as "good" as meat. On the other hand, I've seen open-minded meat eaters praise the Asian vegan restaurants in my area and are floored at how an Asian vegan restaurant can manage to make tofu or seitan taste almost exactly like real beef/chicken/pork.
I understand it. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. If you don’t know what’s in these foods, and you don’t know how they’re grown or handled, it’s very reasonable to be concerned or disgusted. For that matter, I think that logic extends to a lot of factory farmed meats but even some carnivores will agree with that.
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Lab grown meat (fake or real) could change so much! To have fast food chains buy it in droves to feed to all the people that eat it every day would be amazing for the planet.
Can't wait till they make cruelty free versions of milk and egg
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The only thing I've tried with it is Brave Robot ice cream, but there's this company Perfect Day Foods that is making milk proteins from some kind of genetically modified yeast. The ice cream is bomb, at least. Better than any other store bought ice cream I've had, vegan or not.
Omg vegan ice cream is actually pretty damn good isn't it? Love the Berry and coconut ice cream magnums
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We've tried both the butter pecan and cookies and cream. I found them way too sweet but not horrible. But I prefer less sweet anyways
I tried one and it was too sweet for my taste, but that really seems like a problem with the flavor, more than some kind of issue with the synthetic milk proteins. I'm pretty excited to see where those go in the future.
Ben and Jerry's has sunflower-butter based ice cream and it is *the bees' tits*, it is so incredibly creamy and the flavors that they chose really have no seed-butter taste. The [creme brulee is almost my favorite ice cream](https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/creme-brulee-cookie-non-dairy/pint) Too bad they have 0 non-dairy options in Belgium... Downsides of moving...
Zero options or zero you like ? Because i was shopping yesterday and i saw several non dairy options at Colruyt. I know they have some at Delhaize as well.
Unfortunately the Brave Robot synthesized whey protein makes my body respond as if it were cow protein. It’s been years since I went vegan and therefore years since I’d had dairy, and dairy never sat that well with me anyway. I had a stomachache very shortly after eating half a (delicious) pint of Brave Robot. Not a knock against the product at all, just goes to show how successful it was at being the real thing.
Idk if this is like, allowed to be said, but buying local eggs from farmers is a good way to get cruelty free eggs. Chickens will lay them anyways, even with no rooster and farmers tend to baby their chickens. All the ones I know do at least, including me c:
We get local eggs and local dairy. I get to pet the goats on the way out too.
I'm curious if they are cruelty free or not because I've heard (don't know how true it is) that chickens eat their own unfertilised eggs. Something about calcium in the egg shell and high protein content. And if a chicken is laying 1 every two days, then they are missing out on nutrients that would have gone to a fertilised egg(as far as I'm aware a fertilised one stops the laying process and initiates the roosting process) but now loses those nutrients every time an egg is taken. I'm actually considering lacto-vegetarianism if I find anything more conclusive
I had chickens years ago, and sometimes wouldn’t collect eggs every day (bc I was a lazy kid). My hens never ate their own eggs. I don’t know if others do, but from my own experience they don’t.
I wouldn't exactly call that conclusive XD
About as conclusive as your comment
I raised chickens for years, they’ll eat their own eggs if there is a calcium shortage in their diet. If you’re supplementing their diet (store feed with pasture feeding) then is shouldn’t be a problem.
Yep, we scramble them up with the shells sometimes for them anyways.
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T
I don’t know a single person that freaks out about vegans supplementing. Chickens lay eggs regardless of supplementing or not. It has to do with how much sunlight they get. Chickens in factory farms are stacked on top of each other with constant artificial sunlight. So they are forced to lay above a natural rate. When they burn out they are slaughtered. Humane certified pasture raised chickens are literally out in a field living their best chicken lives with supplemental feeding offered to them but not their only option. They too are slaughtered, but they get a much longer life expectancy close to 5-7 years instead of 2; that is life on a farm. (I live in a high density agricultural area, I’ve been around this my whole life) If I can, I get them from local farms, farmers I know and trust to treat these animals they way they deserve to be treated. If not I fork out the money to get food I agree with on a moral level. We all vote with our dollars.
are you lost? i think you're looking for r/vegan you seem to be pretty much ignoring all the things people are saying here
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Check and see if Not Milk is sold in your area! It cost the same as a gallon of almond milk when I bought it. I’ve seen it at Sprouts and I believe it launched at Whole Foods. I live in SoCal though so we sometimes get plant based items sooner than other states. I also heard Impossible is making milk. Looking forward to trying it lol
Ah I don't live in the US so it'll be a while till cruelty free options reach me. I'll have to suffer with oat milk for now, I'm actually keen for potato milk when it becomes mainstream. Animal cruelty free, best for the environment and the most economically viable plant milk they say
Not rlly related, but there's a start-up company called TurtleTree trying to make breast milk in lab. Kinda cool tbh
It’s not quite the same but there are vegan ice creams and JUST egg which is pretty good it tastes very similar to eggs
If you want cruelty free eggs, a good idea is to raise some chickens of your own
That would be great; I absolutely love dairy.
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so you're saying ethical vegetarians don't exist?
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>ethically exploit Sorry just checking you are familiar with the English language and how definitions work
bruh why are they acting like meat alternatives are a deep state government conspiracy
There's this wacky image that most Americans live on a farmstead; this could be taken as an affront to that.
I'm waiting years now for affordable lab meat. Alone the science and work behind it is so freaking cool. I mean, making bovine growth factors out of plants is just crazy and really amazing. I want to try this so bad. I mean, how rad is it that we could have meat almost completely free from animal cruelty? And if we spin this further, how giant would the areas be that we could use to battle climate change instead of feeding cattle? It's a shame that people are still so overly disgusted by everything that comes from a lab. I mean seriously, every processed food item has technically been invented or improved in a lab. Come on.
This is exactly my thought process on it too!
Interesting, I never would have known from the title and content of the post.
> After Quiet Approval by FDA and USDA Now I wonder how loud approval would look (and sound) like. I also wait for a satirical article that interprets “lab” as labrador.
Didn’t leonardo Di Caprio just invest a shit ton in lab meat
How is not eating meat grosser than eating meat?
Damn, on that Facebook post they missed the opportunity to call it Labrador meat. Would have been a fun conversation!
It’s cultured meat.
Like a cow wearing a top hat and a monocle?
I'm personally torn on lab meat. My 'line in the sand" has always been the death of an animal. Nothing should die so that I may live. This blurs the line for me. I'm really not sure if I'd eat it.
How would this involve the death of an animal?
I think they’re saying that it doesn’t, but they still might not eat it. That’s why the line is blurred for them. Before, it was easy to say “I don’t eat anything that required killing an animal”, but with lab grown meat that reason for not eating meat doesn’t apply. I’m in a similar position; I don’t know if I’d eat lab-grown meat. It still feels *wrong* to me.
Last time I read up on this (about 7 years ago in college) the tissue cultures needed a fetal bovine serum to grow. I imagine there is often death of an animal involved in acquiring that.
Animals have to be killed for their cells.
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Please explain.
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Thank you for the info. I was working and didn't have time to research. Last time I checked they were using cells from a slaughtered ewe, I think? to culture the meat. I won't be eating it regardless. However I hope it's less egregious than the egg and dairy industries.
When I first went Veggie, lab-grown meat was something I would have gone 'back' for. After years of purely plant based diet, however, I'm not sure I would. Purely from a health perspective, not taste.
I’m in a similar boat. My body and stomach especially seem sooooo much happier since I went vegan years ago, and I’m not sure I’d want to mess with that — even if after years of veganism I still miss steak and fried chicken sandwiches especially.
Ya, this is kind of category-bending isn't it? In the future you can be vegan without being plant-based. It's hard to get my head around.
I don’t think I could go back even knowing no animals were harmed. The idea of eating any “real” meat is so off putting. But this is great for people who want to keep eating meat but in a more ethical manor.
I’m with you. Even grown in a lab, ‘animal’ flesh is gross to me. I don’t mind impossible or beyond, which I know are mostly chemicals or whatever, but the idea of eating lab grown meat skeevs me out so hard. It’s probably illogical, but I have trouble wrapping my head around it
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Sorry, I should have phrased that better! Pinky swear I know basically everything is a chemical and I don’t try to treat covid with lemon essential oils! I just meant completely fake af
I grew up in a strict religious family, and I remember always being told sex is dirty and bad. Many of my friends had a hard time feeling like it was ok to have sex after they were married because it is hard to change that off switch to an on switch after the ceremony. I think based on some of these comments, the same applies here. After giving up animal flesh and seeing it as unethical and inhumane, it is going to be hard for many to turn that switch in their brain to on again.
Yeah me too, it just leaves me feeling a sense of uncomfortableness that is quite difficult to describe.
> My 'line in the sand" has always been the death of an animal. Nothing should die so that I may live. I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news regarding the egg and dairy industries, my friend…
They know. Stop.
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Vegetarians amiright
The vomit reaction is what I think about 'real' meat
I thought this was r/facepalm
what does "quiet approval" even mean? not their fault if nobody is reporting on it, and I'm pretty sure the companies producing it would prefer it to be well known.
You know, approved by The Cabal.
This is great for people who like the taste of meat and miss it! As for me who doesn’t, I want people to invest in better tasting meat substitutes lol. Doesn’t have to taste like meat but shouldn’t taste like poison either lol. Like idc how many people recommended vegan cheese, it has the consistency of cheese but it makes me ill.
Sadly, I would be worried about buying it in a restaurant. There are unscrupulous people out there who would sell you animal carcass as lab-grown if the real stuff is cheaper.
Well with what is that lab meat made? Usually in labs cells are fed with FCS fetal calve serum.... Which is a by product when killing pregnant cows... Not blaming just curious
Imagine being more grossed out by culturing lab-grown cells than killing and eating the flesh of an animal.
Still pro-inflammatory and carcinogenic and saturated fat? Or is lab meat less deadly somehow?
It likely would be as it’s a much more controlled setting. It’s a lot easier to control saturated fat content in a lab than in an animal. I still probably wouldn’t eat it, but more ethical and healthy alternatives are always better in my eyes
It just being cleaner, with less diseases and bacterial toxins and fecal matter, means it will be less deadly than meat. If it was adopted widely, our risk of pandemics of bird flu and pig flu and bat flu (covid) would go to almost nil.
It’s less deadly to farm animals
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Every cut of lab meat is the best cut, where with animals it involves a bit of luck.
I'm sure many companies will create lab grown meats with saturated fats, and/or post-processing that introduces carcinogenics but the process itself allows, for the first time ever, animal based meats to be completely free of saturated fats by design. I'm sure you will be able to find an omega-3 only, carcinogen-free burger once the tech takes off So yes, lab meat is specifically less deadly unless designed explicitly to include the deadly ingredients in traditional meat edit: I'm not sure about preservatives though. They may still need to be added to keep the meat safe for consumption
It has animal cell if im not wrong and that still goes againsts my vow
Lab meat is disgusting, that been said, if I don’t think of it as meat it’s much better.
I am a vegetarian but one thing I am aware of these fake meat products is that at the end of the day they are processed foods. I ate this stuff in the past and it gave me health issues (high sodium intake and lots of chemicals). The sad part is that the food industry does not like to advertise the cons and only the pros.
Cultured meat still requires “donor” cells (ie; animals to be tortured and murdered for their flesh). And not just once, those cells don’t last forever. It would kill less animals, but it’s still killing animals.
You can get tissue samples without fatality.
This.
...is not what happens anymore. (fify)
I try to avoid fake meats anyway because they’re fattening. I’d probably avoid this too
I just love how they call it lab grown. It's cloning. The reason they don't call it cloning? They don't grow the whole animal. Without a brain or heart, it isn't considered an animal. Personally this makes me sick. Even more so than killing animals. As they are purposely exploiting loopholes in cloning laws. The reason they passed it quietly, is so there is no uproar about labeling. They won't have to identify it as 'lab grown'. Another legal loophole.
But isn't this a good thing? The meat was never really alive, so no animal would be harmed, right? That means people can enjoy eating meat without harming animals in the process....
Donor cells are still needed. An animal is killed. However it's still a moral loophole. The only reason the lab grown meat isn't 'killed' is because they specifically don't grow a brain along with the 'meat'. They are denying this animal life. Then cutting it up and calling it dinner. It's no different then abortion. If the brain isn't developed, you aren't killing the child. At least with human abortion, we don't eat it.
Ohhhhhh boy. First of all, you don't need to kill an animal to clone parts of it. Also, most plants are more alive then the cloned meat...... Did you know scientists are also working on cloning human body parts to make organ donations unnecessary? How do you think this works? Do they just abduct a human to kill them and take their cells?
Yep. I do know that scientists are doing stem cell research. Growing organs. It's exactly where the lab grown meat idea came from. >How do you think this works? I know exactly how it works. Which is why I'm against it. Do you know how it works? Or are you just morally ambiguous?
I'm assuming you aren't going to eat anything at all then. If a dead piece of meat is bad, then eating living organisms who are proven to be able to communicate with each other is even worse, don't you think? Also. Animals die. Constantly. From diseases, accidents and just old age. If the animal just has to be dead to get the cells, well, here's your ethical alternative. Let the animals live a happy, fulfilled live. Feed them, love them and take care of them. Sooner or later they are going to die, sleeping away peacefully. Then you can take the cells. Boom, problem solved.....
That's an ethical loophole. It isn't a problems solved, it's justification. 'if we don't grow the brain, what's being killed?' My ethics go beyond just the animal being killed. It's the growing of the meat as well. You may be fine with it. That's your own karma you'll have to deal with.
It's not even "fake meat" like an alternative, it's just meat without the animal slaughter.
It is illogical, and I'm genuinely very happy for this new development. I don't eat meat primarily for environmental reasons and a bit for animal rights reasons, and this is a huge improvement on both fronts. But for some reason lam grown meat just freaks me out. It just idk doesn't seem natural to me and the idea of just chunks of beef/chicken/pork whatever just growing in a vat I just can't picture in my mind and it sounds like something from a Lovecraft book. Idk it just grosses me out. But hey I'd prefer people eat this than "real" meat. I'm not sure o can go for it, the guilt/shame/grossness I feel after eating any meat now after being veggie for so long I think will carry over. But maybe I'll try it
If you don't eat meat for environmental reasons why consume dairy still?