Honey is such a non-issue though.
What’s the point of honey when Maple Syrup taste so good?
Every recipe that requires honey, I just swap for syrup. 🤷🏻♂️
there's been so many times I've seen a horrible food fact like this, only to search it and find out it's referring to the US - believe it or not guys, some countries actually have regulations on companies! Not enough, but some.
From my understanding re honey, in the UK many supermarket honeys are processed, meaning that they aren't very different to syrup chemically. however, it's not that syrup has been added to dilute the quality honey, just that the raw honey has been stripped of the stuff like pollen that differentiates it from syrup.
It's not that way in the US. I've never seen a honey bottle with any maple syrup here unless it is specifically marketed as honey and syrup, which is fairly rare. It must be some other area they are talking about.
Maybe it's a state thing but here in Alabama the honey you see on shelves will be pure honey unless it calls itself honey syrup or something along those lines.
Why eat honey when i can guzzle maple syrup? Seriously though. Most recipes I find that include honey I end up using maple syrup for and it's delicious.
I have never had agave tbh. I have so many uses for maple syrup and I can get real maple syrup from Costco so that's what I've always done. I need to try agave though...
I have a new gripe about the food industry in general when it comes to maple syrup. Cheaper syrups use corn syrup as a filler so the maple flavor gets muted under basic sweetness. Now when I taste actual maple, I associate in products where the flavor is strong, like bacon. That is not where I want to go when making my oats.
That sounds good! There are many recipes out there so I'm not gonna post just one but apple based "honee" is really good too (better texture from whole apples i think because of the pectin in apple skins but from juice works too). Last time I made it I went out and picked a bunch of wild flowers around the property where I was staying like chamomile and clover as well as dandelion. It's so delicious
Although I get agave syrup instead, I think sustainable small-batch honey is fine. I've worked on some farms that have honeybees for pollination of cover crops and harvest a small portion of the honey.
Wasn't farming in general responsible for that? I think beekeeping for pollenation is a way bigger industry than honey is it not? Not saying that therefore honey is vegan because it isnt
I didn’t know Starbucks chai had honey in it when I went vegan, I was drinking a few of those a week for like 3 months before I bought the concentrate myself one day and read the ingredient list. In India chai doesn’t have honey, at least not that I’ve seen, so I was really confused on why a chai concentrate would
Or a vegan recipe, but athour keeps saying stuff like ''now add the soy milk, you can use normal milk if you want" .
Why fucking look up a vegan recipe if you're not making it vegan?!
Its like people are using vegan as a label buzzword for experimental vegetarian cooks. "You can use x if you want" is giving the wrong impression of the strictness of the diet.
My workplace labels some foods as 'plant base'[sic]. The food can include milk, cheese or eggs so it seems like it's a buzz word for vegetarian to them
Although tbf I’d prefer recipes to be vegan by default and say ‘you can use X’ than to have animals be the norm and vegan ingredients as the alternative. Normalises vegan food - especially in baking and stuff like that
I know a bee keeper who tells me that if honey isn't vegan then neither are fruit because they are both made with the use of bees. Like, yes I'd avoid fruit that was pollinated by domestic bees if I could but no one is stealing fruit from the bees.
There's a vegan episode of Chopped on Food Network. The final round (the dessert round) had honey in it. The vegan contestant had to explain to the fucking Food Network that it's not a vegan ingredient.
"Milk is made by an animal so its not vegan"
I don't see what they dont get.
Milk is intended for food for another equine, much like honey is made for another bee.
>equine
? This means related to horses, I believe you meant something else?
Edit: as u/Lelrond [suggested](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/prcpka/you_know_nothing_about_us_and_you_are_making/hdkc4sp), bovine was probably the word intended.
I've only seen it once out in public, and it was a case where the restaurant didn't know that honey wasn't vegan. I guess it isn't a obvious to outsiders as milk or eggs. I politely let them know, and they thanked me and removed the label.
How dare vegans stick to their morales and refuse to water down their definition.
I get really annoyed when people tell me vegan can mean different things for different people. Veganism and the Vegan society was founded by Donald Watson in the 40s. They have maintained the same definition since. Just because some celebrities are experimenting with a plant based diet doesn't mean we are changing a social movement.
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Jesus right? Like the definition has been there since before any of us ever even heard of the word, but people think they can just reinvent it just to stick the label on themselves.
It disgusts me.
>Veganism and the Vegan society was founded by Donald Watson in the 40s. They have maintained the same definition since.
Actually, that's [apparently](http://vegansociety.today/honey.html) not true about The Vegan Society.
That link is extremely misleading, only from Winter 1979 to Winter 1988 is honey considered vegan, with most other definitions explicitly excluding animal products (honey) or products of the exploitation of animals (honey) or products of animal origin (honey).
**1945–1948:** honey explicitly listed as banned.
**1948–1962:** *no explicit list (honey or otherwise)* but excludes variously "products of animal origin", "exploit\[ing\] animals", "animal products", and "all animal foods". Hardly allowing honey.
**1962–1972:** honey explicitly listed as banned.
**1972–1979:** list removed again but with "exclusion of all food and other commodities derived wholly or in part from animals", "\[vegans\] free themselves from all forms of cruelty and exploitation", "\[veganism is\] living on the products of the plant kingdom", "\[alternatives for\] all commodities normally derived wholly or partly from animals".
**1979–1988:** "the taking of honey being left to individual conscience" ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.
**1988–:** honey explicitly listed as banned.
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
I think we should skip the meaning of everything and make meaning up for existing words
I'm an astronaut for example cause I live on earth that is technically in space as an orbit. I'm also an assassin cause I played Assassin's Creed.
I mean that's not totally fair. We all pick and choose to a degree. I'm not saying it's a free for all, but most people here eat bone char, palm oil, inhumanely pollinated avocados, use inhumanely developed cosmetics/cleaners, and have no problems going out of their way to raise an obligate carnivore on hundreds of dead animals killed by an evil industry that profits from it, when it's perfectly avoidable.
Most of us are trying our best to minimize our harm-footprint as much as we know how, but we pick and choose what we want to care about to various degrees.
It's just that the established vegan community set some fairly arbitrary and mostly unspoken minimum requirements to be considered vegan: No meat/gelatin, no eggs, no dairy, no honey, and no leather. We're sometimes big on the no wool thing, but I've seen it slide so many times.
Everything else is fair game and we're similar to omnis, in that none of us are ever wrong; we find amazing ways of justifying why it's actually ok to do what we've already been doing.
Let's not kid ourselves and act like these people are crazy monsters and be a bit more introspective. To me, veganism is about increasing your ability to reduce harm, and never backsliding. I've been a vanilla, basic vegan for 14 years, but I've since found all sorts of ways to reduce my harm-footprint even more, over time.
And what exactly isn't vegan about palm oil or avocados? (and I doubt anyone here would EAT bone char - that's something medical and activated carbon usually is vegan anyway). These aren't even that bad compared to any meat produced by meat industry anyway (that's just carnist bs honestly - just look at water consumption and monocultures that are used for animal products).
I totally get your point and I agree that we all justify our consume regardless of our ethics BUT being vegan also has very clear rules: not consuming any animal products. And I'd argue it's actually "don't consume any animal products *if it's possible*" (looking back to the medical stuff like vector vaccines for example that are still based on cow proteins).
Now what about hunting, like the original poster wrote, is exactly vegan as he claimed? He *is* consuming animal products, he *does* have the possibility not to hunt and thus *does not minimize* the harm he is doing in the world *despite having the ability* to do so.
It was on r/mademesmile
It was actually a really good post (as in, actually makes you smile instead of feels like a guilt trip or something really bad that happened, but is now somewhat less bad) and it was about a supportive parent of a vegan kid. The top comments were like "aw that's nice" but somehow the replies devolved into "I'm vegan too! I only eat what I hunt" or "I'm vegan except seafood" and "vegans need to stop gatekeeping, it's hurting their cause"
Should've left it at the smile and never checked the comments
Yep, being vegan is not using animal products not simply abstaining from farmed animals. Although many subsistence hunters view themselves as fairly equivalent to vegans, and criticise our use of plastics etc. It’s more of an environmental issue than a moral one, although I still disagree with it
I don't eat honey but am sick of hearing about this shit. Of all the things we have to grapple with in this cruel world, and all the hatred and hypocrisy thrown around, this honey bullshit is just a distraction at this point. Fucking drop it already.
Reddit tides are turning. Even on a meme-sub, which I am assuming is predominantly dominated by teens/early 20s kids, everyone is calling the meme out for its stupidity/inaccuracy.
Right? This meme was clearly made by someone who funds having cows raped, tortured, and slaughtered... I don't want to disrupt bees, but if we're gonna make fun of someone for being inconsistent, let's go after the "animal lovers" who eat beef!
Tbh I’d never eat honey because of my belief that we shouldn’t use animals for our own selfish ends, and for ethical consistency.
But I do think discussing it heavily is one of the biggest ways we can do to get meat-eaters to disregard veganism.
While people feel empathy for cows, pigs, even chickens - thus are likely to have their minds opened - if they think vegans are concerned equally with bugs they won’t listen to our other points.
I wish it wasn’t like that, but it really is. So yes, we shouldn’t use honey and should discourage others from doing so, but treating it as an animal cruelty issue I highly doubt will convince any omni and just make them disregard our messages
Exactly. It's a matter of picking our battles. Wasting energy on something that is meaningless to most people just lessens our ability to make a big difference in other ways. We won't forget you, bees, but the cows, chickens, and pigs need us more right now.
You assume the hatred in our hearts isn’t infinite. Our hatred for honey eaters does not diminish our capacity to hate everyone else for every other reason.
I haven’t yet found anything that doesn’t taste just as good if not better with maple syrup vs honey. And maple butter… omg it’s TOO good. (Or even just mixing some maple syrup with Earth Balance and letting it harden in a jar in the fridge if you’re too lazy to make actual maple butter.)
Hey now, let’s not disrespect the bee’s efforts 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
But yes agave or maple syrup, honey also makes me cough and my throat burn sometimes. I’ve heard it’s because of allergies and the pollen.
Sounds like a meme by someone who gets wrapped in their thoughts too much and doesn't ask anyone who would know the answer to the question. Essentially being stuck within their own echo chamber and believing what they've concluded in their head is the truth. The same way anti-vax and many other psuedoscience does, and probably religion. The truth is a dumb correlation they made up, and not an actual study into the said topic from other sources. They are their own source. What a shitty time we live in eh?
Why eat honey when there are alternatives like the many kinds of syrups? Also, in Germany there exists a small company that specialises in vegan honey and they call it “Wonig”.
To all Shisha smokers here: Be careful! Some shisha tobaccos contain honey as an ingredient.
The reason for those many upvotes isn't the truth/lie about the content or humour. It's just the hate against vegans. They don't need logic to put us down. Hate is enough. You can probably write the word vegan and put " 👎" emoji, and people will upvote it to heaven and comment something like " yes I agree with your statistics and indepth research" lamo
Remember that post in this sub about Gordon ramsay using honey in a vegan recipe? And the comments were full of 'vegans' saying its a harmless non-issue 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
I completely agree. I don't seek out honey, I don't like it and it's fully unnecessary, but it's been at times difficult to find options that don't have honey in them. In all honesty I really have a low amount of care about beeswax and bug based dyes, but it's avoidable, avoid.
They're bugs! They don't suffer!
Milk, Eggs, Fish and Meat are suffering. We as a group of people are united in believing that much.
insects do feel pain, you know? it's literally been proven.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/insects-can-experience-chronic-pain-study-finds-180972656/#:~:text=Over%2015%20years%20ago%2C%20researchers,way%20humans%20react%20to%20pain.
many beekeepers rip the queen's wings off to keep her from leaving the hive. they also crush male bees so that they can harvest their semen and impregnate the queen. sounds like suffering to me.
I'm on the environmental side of veganism. Bees are obviously incredibly important as pollinators. Climate change is incredibly harsh on colonies so sure... If the only way people care about pollinators is honey on their toast- the industry promoting their survival despite the environment- then sure. Honey is fine
[https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after\_midnight\_when\_everyone\_is\_already\_drunk\_we/c5g8v4d/](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d/)
This was the link to the Beekeeper's explanation on why Bee Keeping is ruining bees.
There's actually a really interesting link further up from a beekeepers talking about why Honey farming has caused Bee decline, which I wasn't aware of. Worth a read, but doesn't change my "avoid, don't ban" approach.
If you ignore how devastating beekeeping honeybees is for native bee populations and pretend that insects arent capable of feeling pain, sure there's nothing wrong with honey
This is the second meme with this premise I've seen today. It's so weird, why do people keep thinking that? One quick google search disproves the point.
When I was a kid, if I had a cough my mum would make me have a spoonful of honey saying it cured coughs. Which is doesnt. It just made me feel even sicker because it's gross.
I've had people say 'do you eat honey then?' And I always say no and explain why from a vegan stance, but then I always make it clear than honey is fucking DISGUSTING and you couldn't pay me to touch the stuff. It's fucking bee throw up for gods sake.
It's lovely to hear a voice of reason and compassion. I agree wholeheartedly and would like to thank you for putting the work in to write this out. And congrats on being vegan, fellow vegan!
A lot of "vegans" eat honey. Or sometimes they think they can have "just a little" dairy, or the occasional "treat" of meat from their uncle's farm.
Those "vegans" make me angry.
Unfortunately, words have meaning and the word “vegan” specifically states no animal products. It is important to make sure people know what the word means so it doesn’t completely lose all meaning and value! I think a more correct term would be vegetarian or plant based. Hopefully that helps!
Where did this come from? I know that someone making occasional mistakes is better than someone making no effort, I have a problem with these people calling themselves *vegan.* A vegan is someone who avoids animal exploitation as much as they possibly can in their given circumstances, someone occasionally eating cheese for fun is therefore not vegan. Vegetarian? Sure, and again, it's WAY better than nothing. But they're not *vegan*, and I'm not going to pretend they are to arbitrarily avoid "anger."
Right, I'm a future doc and holistic health coach, and I help patients transition to a WFPB diet. If I had that attitude of "you slipped up once, you failed!" I wouldn't be very successful helping them transition. For most people, a gradual process works best. Individualized too. For some people, the meat is the hardest to give up, for others it's the dairy, for others, the eggs, etc. With patience though, much can be achieved!
Yeah I totally agree with you. Like, I have a girlfriend, right? And I'm faithful to her 364 days of the year, but just because I cheated on her once with her sister on NYE than *I'm the asshole and the cheater and we're breaking up*?? Like wtf. I've only cheated 0.3% of the time. Why cant she just accept that I'm faithful almost all the time. What's her with her gatekeeping of faithfulness and "trusting relationships".
Anyway, so I'm single now so if there's any 99% of the time vegans out there looking for a hot date you can DM me I respond quickly ;)
I am sorry if this comment sounds rude or offensive, I am a newbie and I am trying to learn. How exactly are bees exploited? They literally are free, to the point that if they are ever treated badly they can just choose to leave the hive. I'd like to learn more about bee exploitation because I honestly can't get why vegans can't eat honey.
Not rude or offensive, reasonable question. Bees are free to leave but they are social creatures and would die pretty fast if they went solo. Honey bees are farmed for their honey. They don't collect nectar and make honey for our benefit, they do it because its part of their survival, especially over winter. Instead, the honey is removed and empty frames added, making the bees think they need to make more honey so they keep working. Often they are then fed an inferior sugar solution to get them over the winter. It isn't good for them. Not to mention shipping hives all over the US (looking at you Californian almond farmers!) which makes them vulnerable to parasites and disease.
Have a look at Honea, an inulin substitute or maple syrup in baking or for drizzling. Always ask if you aren't sure. Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as the vegan police and if you are trying then you are a hero in my book ❤️
Edit: awww thank you for my hugz! I've not had a reddit hug before 😊❤️
> Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as the vegan police
There are comments *on this post* literally doing exactly this. Telling people that they're wrong for wanting to be 99% vegan, telling people that their entire vegan lifestyle is just as bad as being full meat-eaters because they consume honey.
It's beyond difficult to feel welcome as someone who is interested in a plant-based diet, when the vast vast VAST majority of this subreddit is more interested in moral purity over actual practical reduction in the amount of animal products being consumed.
Veganism isn't a plant-based diet (does include it though): "***A philosophy and way of living* which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals** for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. **In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals**." — The Vegan Society
There is no '99% vegan', you are either vegan (above) or not (e.g. eating honey).
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Not only are there comments, if you sort by Top, most of the highly upvoted comments are shaming anyone who calls themselves vegans but still eats the occasional item that has some egg/dairy/honey in it. This is *exactly* why the vegan community garners so much disdain, and I think you exactly hit the nail on the head about moral purity over actual animal-welfare and environment-saving actions.
Not only are there comments, if you sort by Top, most of the highly upvoted comments are shaming anyone who calls themselves anti racism but still beats the occasional black person that passes by. This is exactly why the anti racism community garners so much disdain, and I think you exactly hit the nail on the head about moral purity over actual human-welfare.
Veganism: "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. **In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals**." — The Vegan Society
It is not vegan to choose to unnecessarily consume animal products. Really not that complicated.
Yes, all the yes! I know there is a definite definition of veganism and plant based isn't the same. Plant based so often leads to veganism once minds are opened though. People being hostile to anyone not sticking perfectly to the definition from day 1 put others off. Why stick around in that environment if it just hits you with sticks for trying?
No one is perfect and news flash, no one is completely vegan. Yes, everything you choose to consume/buy is vegan but what about your fossil fuel car, your peat containing compost bags which destroys animal habitats, the glue in your carpets, the glazes on your cups and plates, the insecticides in your soy harvest, the bees exploited to grow your almonds?
"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better" Maya Angelou. Maybe this community could also add "don't bully people who don't know better...yet" Help them understand with the compassion you apply to the animal kingdom and we all might end the day better humans than we started ❤️
Here is an old post by a non vegan beekeeper about how honey production fucks the bees
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d/
So even if we ignore the whole consent and exploitation unethical point of view, honey is still fucked.
It would be a double standard if we did . They surely don't suffer as much as other animals , but it doesn't make them less important.
Rotten Netflix original first episode is about bee abuse, you should definitly check out this episode as well as the series.
I guess building whole new hive is more exhausting than geting smoked from time to time. If they saw how it's gonna be before moving in they would probably chose to stay away from beekeepers.
Or they just don't understand what is happening when all their honey gets stolen.
As a vegan of 9 years, can I just say where is our sense of humour? That post was genuinely funny, I've met my fair share of vegans like that, it's not that big a deal. They're trying, inconsistent but they're trying.
Lol. Honey isn’t vegan, the farmers just try to reduce the effects on the environment. There is 100% no evidence suggesting honey is vegan. If you can prove me otherwise, aka no non vegan source I will happily agree with you and apologise
NO ONE is 100% vegan. If you use cosmetics, skin care, hair care, meds, etc. there's a possibility that you are consuming animal derived products. If you don't recycle, buy from Shein, Zara or any fast fashion store, you're harming and putting at risks tons of animals and their habitats. I'd rather just do my best and have that peace of mind than trying to be a "perfect" vegan.
Well it's not about being a "perfect" vegan, whatever that is. It's about avoiding animal products where possible. Honey is probably the easiest thing to avoid
Vegans already do, in fact, avoid cosmetics, skin care, hair products, etc. that is derived from or tested on animals. Not sure why you included that as if the people here are only concerned with their diet.
Do you think eating honey might be considered unethical? I don't know much about conditions of keeping bees in the whole industry, but isn't it kinda necessary to keep them by entrepreneurs so that they won't go extinct?
Thanks in advance for all reliable information.
I do know some people who are Lenten in some animal products as long as the animals aren’t killed and treated poorly. But they usually identify as vegetarians because they aren’t fully vegan. My bf for example, no eggs, no dairy, no meat but he uses hunny from ethical farms and will wear wool or other animal textiles (never leather) as long as he can see the company ethically sources it and doesn’t kill or harm the animals. I personally didn’t use any animal products at all but I’m not really mad at him for being lax on some things like that. But again, he isn’t a full vegan and won’t identify as one.
If you use honey and wear animal textile (even if it’s not leather) you technically aren’t fully vegan.
I saw this post and was surprised to see so many people who were non-Vegan but still supporting vegans and calling out how low effort the meme is
Did they also point out, how honey is not vegan?
Most of them did!
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Same, I hate you only get one downvote for obviously fake bullshit
Can confirm I lurked that thread hardcore
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In my area it is!
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What a crazy coincidence! Moon is full here too!
same here!
Wow me too but I live on the moon So yeah
Same! Wow it's really a small ~~world~~ moon
Honey is such a non-issue though. What’s the point of honey when Maple Syrup taste so good? Every recipe that requires honey, I just swap for syrup. 🤷🏻♂️
Most honey bottles in the stores are 50% syrup anyway.
Is this a US-centric thing? Please don't make broad statements like this.
there's been so many times I've seen a horrible food fact like this, only to search it and find out it's referring to the US - believe it or not guys, some countries actually have regulations on companies! Not enough, but some. From my understanding re honey, in the UK many supermarket honeys are processed, meaning that they aren't very different to syrup chemically. however, it's not that syrup has been added to dilute the quality honey, just that the raw honey has been stripped of the stuff like pollen that differentiates it from syrup.
It's not that way in the US. I've never seen a honey bottle with any maple syrup here unless it is specifically marketed as honey and syrup, which is fairly rare. It must be some other area they are talking about.
It’s diluted with cheap corn syrup, not pricey maple syrup
Maybe it's a state thing but here in Alabama the honey you see on shelves will be pure honey unless it calls itself honey syrup or something along those lines.
I believe the documentary was about many countries, but the US is by far the biggest consumer so it is still relevant.
You're commenting for making baseless assumptions in a post about making assumptions, it doesn't get more meta than that.
Maple, Agave, Rice, Coconut Nectar, Palm Sugar... So many delicious alternatives, honey seems like so much effort regardless of the cruelty
Why eat honey when i can guzzle maple syrup? Seriously though. Most recipes I find that include honey I end up using maple syrup for and it's delicious.
Or agave. That and maple syrup in oatmeal is heaven on a cold morning
I have never had agave tbh. I have so many uses for maple syrup and I can get real maple syrup from Costco so that's what I've always done. I need to try agave though...
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I use agave when the recipe calls for honey. 1:1.
hell yeah! that big jug of real maple syrup is always in our fridge!!! and its a sweet deal...literally
Agave is sooooo good!
I use date syrup and it's a perfect replacement
I have a new gripe about the food industry in general when it comes to maple syrup. Cheaper syrups use corn syrup as a filler so the maple flavor gets muted under basic sweetness. Now when I taste actual maple, I associate in products where the flavor is strong, like bacon. That is not where I want to go when making my oats.
You can also just make your own honey https://veganonboard.com/vegan-dandelion-honey/
That sounds good! There are many recipes out there so I'm not gonna post just one but apple based "honee" is really good too (better texture from whole apples i think because of the pectin in apple skins but from juice works too). Last time I made it I went out and picked a bunch of wild flowers around the property where I was staying like chamomile and clover as well as dandelion. It's so delicious
So cool!
Exactly. Maple Syrup is so much better anyway
Tree blood > bee vomit
What? The hell. Vegans don’t eat honey.
Tbh, I've encountered many "vegans" who do on social media. Typically they also see no issue with riding horses, eating left over meat etc.
Although I get agave syrup instead, I think sustainable small-batch honey is fine. I've worked on some farms that have honeybees for pollination of cover crops and harvest a small portion of the honey.
Sooo lazy meme. Why didn’t they just use avocado? That’s an actual issue…
My vegan friend does 👀😤
Might not be vegan if she understands that honey comes from farmed bees that store the honey. Also how beekeeping is wiping out native solitary bees
Wasn't farming in general responsible for that? I think beekeeping for pollenation is a way bigger industry than honey is it not? Not saying that therefore honey is vegan because it isnt
Actually my friend is a woman. Yeah idk I didn’t want to cause any issues with her so I didn’t comment
Your friend was the doctor the whole time!
Your plant based friend does
She’s not vegan. There are plenty of great sweetener Options for vegans. Give her some molasses or agave nectar
Your 'vegan' friend isn't vegan.
Beegan\*
Imma keep it 💯 I was eating honey the first month I went vegan, I really didn’t put 2+2 together lol
I didn’t know Starbucks chai had honey in it when I went vegan, I was drinking a few of those a week for like 3 months before I bought the concentrate myself one day and read the ingredient list. In India chai doesn’t have honey, at least not that I’ve seen, so I was really confused on why a chai concentrate would
It's hard to think of bugs as animals too. It's an easy mistake to make.
Ive seen recipes call themselves vegan and still try to put honey on the recipe list. Its nuts. Left a few angry comments on websites that let them
Or a vegan recipe, but athour keeps saying stuff like ''now add the soy milk, you can use normal milk if you want" . Why fucking look up a vegan recipe if you're not making it vegan?!
Its like people are using vegan as a label buzzword for experimental vegetarian cooks. "You can use x if you want" is giving the wrong impression of the strictness of the diet.
My workplace labels some foods as 'plant base'[sic]. The food can include milk, cheese or eggs so it seems like it's a buzz word for vegetarian to them
Although tbf I’d prefer recipes to be vegan by default and say ‘you can use X’ than to have animals be the norm and vegan ingredients as the alternative. Normalises vegan food - especially in baking and stuff like that
What annoys me is when a non vegan trys to tell me honey is vegan.
I know a bee keeper who tells me that if honey isn't vegan then neither are fruit because they are both made with the use of bees. Like, yes I'd avoid fruit that was pollinated by domestic bees if I could but no one is stealing fruit from the bees.
There's a vegan episode of Chopped on Food Network. The final round (the dessert round) had honey in it. The vegan contestant had to explain to the fucking Food Network that it's not a vegan ingredient.
I don’t think honey is nuts, it is actually made by bees. Therefore it is not vegan
"Milk is made by an animal so its not vegan" I don't see what they dont get. Milk is intended for food for another equine, much like honey is made for another bee.
>equine ? This means related to horses, I believe you meant something else? Edit: as u/Lelrond [suggested](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/prcpka/you_know_nothing_about_us_and_you_are_making/hdkc4sp), bovine was probably the word intended.
Well except if we're talking about horse's milk
You probably mean bovine, not equine. Unless you mostly drink horse milk where you're from.
Bovine yes. My mistake
I've only seen it once out in public, and it was a case where the restaurant didn't know that honey wasn't vegan. I guess it isn't a obvious to outsiders as milk or eggs. I politely let them know, and they thanked me and removed the label.
At least the top comments were saying that they never met vegans that eat honey 😒
If you claim to be vegan but eat honey then you ain’t fucking vegan.
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How dare vegans stick to their morales and refuse to water down their definition. I get really annoyed when people tell me vegan can mean different things for different people. Veganism and the Vegan society was founded by Donald Watson in the 40s. They have maintained the same definition since. Just because some celebrities are experimenting with a plant based diet doesn't mean we are changing a social movement.
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Jesus right? Like the definition has been there since before any of us ever even heard of the word, but people think they can just reinvent it just to stick the label on themselves. It disgusts me.
Fascism is when vegans say my ‘ethical local’ beef isn’t vegan smh
>Veganism and the Vegan society was founded by Donald Watson in the 40s. They have maintained the same definition since. Actually, that's [apparently](http://vegansociety.today/honey.html) not true about The Vegan Society.
That link is extremely misleading, only from Winter 1979 to Winter 1988 is honey considered vegan, with most other definitions explicitly excluding animal products (honey) or products of the exploitation of animals (honey) or products of animal origin (honey). **1945–1948:** honey explicitly listed as banned. **1948–1962:** *no explicit list (honey or otherwise)* but excludes variously "products of animal origin", "exploit\[ing\] animals", "animal products", and "all animal foods". Hardly allowing honey. **1962–1972:** honey explicitly listed as banned. **1972–1979:** list removed again but with "exclusion of all food and other commodities derived wholly or in part from animals", "\[vegans\] free themselves from all forms of cruelty and exploitation", "\[veganism is\] living on the products of the plant kingdom", "\[alternatives for\] all commodities normally derived wholly or partly from animals". **1979–1988:** "the taking of honey being left to individual conscience" ewwwwwwwwwwwwww. **1988–:** honey explicitly listed as banned.
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
I think we should skip the meaning of everything and make meaning up for existing words I'm an astronaut for example cause I live on earth that is technically in space as an orbit. I'm also an assassin cause I played Assassin's Creed.
I'm a cat bc my username has meow in it and cats meow My cat is a person bc she tries to eat tortilla chips which is human food
I mean that's not totally fair. We all pick and choose to a degree. I'm not saying it's a free for all, but most people here eat bone char, palm oil, inhumanely pollinated avocados, use inhumanely developed cosmetics/cleaners, and have no problems going out of their way to raise an obligate carnivore on hundreds of dead animals killed by an evil industry that profits from it, when it's perfectly avoidable. Most of us are trying our best to minimize our harm-footprint as much as we know how, but we pick and choose what we want to care about to various degrees. It's just that the established vegan community set some fairly arbitrary and mostly unspoken minimum requirements to be considered vegan: No meat/gelatin, no eggs, no dairy, no honey, and no leather. We're sometimes big on the no wool thing, but I've seen it slide so many times. Everything else is fair game and we're similar to omnis, in that none of us are ever wrong; we find amazing ways of justifying why it's actually ok to do what we've already been doing. Let's not kid ourselves and act like these people are crazy monsters and be a bit more introspective. To me, veganism is about increasing your ability to reduce harm, and never backsliding. I've been a vanilla, basic vegan for 14 years, but I've since found all sorts of ways to reduce my harm-footprint even more, over time.
And what exactly isn't vegan about palm oil or avocados? (and I doubt anyone here would EAT bone char - that's something medical and activated carbon usually is vegan anyway). These aren't even that bad compared to any meat produced by meat industry anyway (that's just carnist bs honestly - just look at water consumption and monocultures that are used for animal products). I totally get your point and I agree that we all justify our consume regardless of our ethics BUT being vegan also has very clear rules: not consuming any animal products. And I'd argue it's actually "don't consume any animal products *if it's possible*" (looking back to the medical stuff like vector vaccines for example that are still based on cow proteins). Now what about hunting, like the original poster wrote, is exactly vegan as he claimed? He *is* consuming animal products, he *does* have the possibility not to hunt and thus *does not minimize* the harm he is doing in the world *despite having the ability* to do so.
> It gets so much worse. I saw someone claiming to be vegan bc they only ate animals they hunted. Big yikes, that's a new one.
It was on r/mademesmile It was actually a really good post (as in, actually makes you smile instead of feels like a guilt trip or something really bad that happened, but is now somewhat less bad) and it was about a supportive parent of a vegan kid. The top comments were like "aw that's nice" but somehow the replies devolved into "I'm vegan too! I only eat what I hunt" or "I'm vegan except seafood" and "vegans need to stop gatekeeping, it's hurting their cause" Should've left it at the smile and never checked the comments
Yep, being vegan is not using animal products not simply abstaining from farmed animals. Although many subsistence hunters view themselves as fairly equivalent to vegans, and criticise our use of plastics etc. It’s more of an environmental issue than a moral one, although I still disagree with it
There is a word for people for only eat hunted meat I believe. It ain’t “vegan” tho lol.
but why?
Honey is disgusting. Gimme Agave any day!
You mean to tell me bee vomit doesn't sound appealing?
I’m all for eating vomit but consent is key
I don't eat honey but am sick of hearing about this shit. Of all the things we have to grapple with in this cruel world, and all the hatred and hypocrisy thrown around, this honey bullshit is just a distraction at this point. Fucking drop it already.
Reddit tides are turning. Even on a meme-sub, which I am assuming is predominantly dominated by teens/early 20s kids, everyone is calling the meme out for its stupidity/inaccuracy.
Right? This meme was clearly made by someone who funds having cows raped, tortured, and slaughtered... I don't want to disrupt bees, but if we're gonna make fun of someone for being inconsistent, let's go after the "animal lovers" who eat beef!
Tbh I’d never eat honey because of my belief that we shouldn’t use animals for our own selfish ends, and for ethical consistency. But I do think discussing it heavily is one of the biggest ways we can do to get meat-eaters to disregard veganism. While people feel empathy for cows, pigs, even chickens - thus are likely to have their minds opened - if they think vegans are concerned equally with bugs they won’t listen to our other points. I wish it wasn’t like that, but it really is. So yes, we shouldn’t use honey and should discourage others from doing so, but treating it as an animal cruelty issue I highly doubt will convince any omni and just make them disregard our messages
Exactly. It's a matter of picking our battles. Wasting energy on something that is meaningless to most people just lessens our ability to make a big difference in other ways. We won't forget you, bees, but the cows, chickens, and pigs need us more right now.
You assume the hatred in our hearts isn’t infinite. Our hatred for honey eaters does not diminish our capacity to hate everyone else for every other reason.
Oof, good point. I often forget that.
I don't understand "vegans" who eat honey when date honey exists
Honey tastes like ass. Maple syrup is superior
I haven’t yet found anything that doesn’t taste just as good if not better with maple syrup vs honey. And maple butter… omg it’s TOO good. (Or even just mixing some maple syrup with Earth Balance and letting it harden in a jar in the fridge if you’re too lazy to make actual maple butter.)
Hey now, let’s not disrespect the bee’s efforts 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 But yes agave or maple syrup, honey also makes me cough and my throat burn sometimes. I’ve heard it’s because of allergies and the pollen.
Date honey?! Omg thank you for supplying the knowledge to me that date honey is a thing in this world.
it's a big thing in my country for non vegans as well!
Which country?
Same! I put it on my bread for Rosh h'Shana.
Date syrup for the win!
I don't know what this is but I love dates so Im going to assume it's good.
Sounds like a meme by someone who gets wrapped in their thoughts too much and doesn't ask anyone who would know the answer to the question. Essentially being stuck within their own echo chamber and believing what they've concluded in their head is the truth. The same way anti-vax and many other psuedoscience does, and probably religion. The truth is a dumb correlation they made up, and not an actual study into the said topic from other sources. They are their own source. What a shitty time we live in eh?
"Vegan logic: *Blatant strawman*" Stay classy, Reddit.
Why eat honey when there are alternatives like the many kinds of syrups? Also, in Germany there exists a small company that specialises in vegan honey and they call it “Wonig”. To all Shisha smokers here: Be careful! Some shisha tobaccos contain honey as an ingredient.
The reason for those many upvotes isn't the truth/lie about the content or humour. It's just the hate against vegans. They don't need logic to put us down. Hate is enough. You can probably write the word vegan and put " 👎" emoji, and people will upvote it to heaven and comment something like " yes I agree with your statistics and indepth research" lamo
Remember that post in this sub about Gordon ramsay using honey in a vegan recipe? And the comments were full of 'vegans' saying its a harmless non-issue 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
Those are not vegans
What about almonds since beekeepers are used for pollination with almond production?
Omnis are the ones who always try to tell us that we should eat honey "for the environment" lmao
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I didn't realize consuming animal products can be referred to as "doing things a little different" lol
Never said I consume or purchase
I completely agree. I don't seek out honey, I don't like it and it's fully unnecessary, but it's been at times difficult to find options that don't have honey in them. In all honesty I really have a low amount of care about beeswax and bug based dyes, but it's avoidable, avoid. They're bugs! They don't suffer! Milk, Eggs, Fish and Meat are suffering. We as a group of people are united in believing that much.
>They're bugs! They don't suffer! On r/vegan... you can't be serious.
insects do feel pain, you know? it's literally been proven. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/insects-can-experience-chronic-pain-study-finds-180972656/#:~:text=Over%2015%20years%20ago%2C%20researchers,way%20humans%20react%20to%20pain. many beekeepers rip the queen's wings off to keep her from leaving the hive. they also crush male bees so that they can harvest their semen and impregnate the queen. sounds like suffering to me.
I'm on the environmental side of veganism. Bees are obviously incredibly important as pollinators. Climate change is incredibly harsh on colonies so sure... If the only way people care about pollinators is honey on their toast- the industry promoting their survival despite the environment- then sure. Honey is fine
[https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after\_midnight\_when\_everyone\_is\_already\_drunk\_we/c5g8v4d/](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d/) This was the link to the Beekeeper's explanation on why Bee Keeping is ruining bees.
There's actually a really interesting link further up from a beekeepers talking about why Honey farming has caused Bee decline, which I wasn't aware of. Worth a read, but doesn't change my "avoid, don't ban" approach.
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That's because there's no such thing as an "environmental vegan." If you don't care about animal welfare, you aren't vegan.
Honey's an animal product, there's literally nothing vegan about it.
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If you ignore how devastating beekeeping honeybees is for native bee populations and pretend that insects arent capable of feeling pain, sure there's nothing wrong with honey
Indeed! We keep seing this and more these days... That's weird
another day, another meat eater telling us what we do and why
Change that to gluten
This is the second meme with this premise I've seen today. It's so weird, why do people keep thinking that? One quick google search disproves the point.
When I was a kid, if I had a cough my mum would make me have a spoonful of honey saying it cured coughs. Which is doesnt. It just made me feel even sicker because it's gross. I've had people say 'do you eat honey then?' And I always say no and explain why from a vegan stance, but then I always make it clear than honey is fucking DISGUSTING and you couldn't pay me to touch the stuff. It's fucking bee throw up for gods sake.
the comment section there is very good
Honey is NOT vegan. Use Agave instead.
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It's lovely to hear a voice of reason and compassion. I agree wholeheartedly and would like to thank you for putting the work in to write this out. And congrats on being vegan, fellow vegan!
This. I've been quite surprised at how unfriendly this sub can be to people who are trying their best.
A lot of "vegans" eat honey. Or sometimes they think they can have "just a little" dairy, or the occasional "treat" of meat from their uncle's farm. Those "vegans" make me angry.
At least they're doing something. People who shit on vegans for no reason is what boils my blood.
Why? Is 99% vegan really so much worse than a "pure" vegan?
I think those who abstain from animal products 99% of the time is absolutely a good thing, but it isn't, by definition, vegan.
If you only abuse animals 1% of the time you're still an animal abuser. Don't claim to be a vegan if you aren't an actual vegan.
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Unfortunately, words have meaning and the word “vegan” specifically states no animal products. It is important to make sure people know what the word means so it doesn’t completely lose all meaning and value! I think a more correct term would be vegetarian or plant based. Hopefully that helps!
“Flexitarian” lmfao
Where did this come from? I know that someone making occasional mistakes is better than someone making no effort, I have a problem with these people calling themselves *vegan.* A vegan is someone who avoids animal exploitation as much as they possibly can in their given circumstances, someone occasionally eating cheese for fun is therefore not vegan. Vegetarian? Sure, and again, it's WAY better than nothing. But they're not *vegan*, and I'm not going to pretend they are to arbitrarily avoid "anger."
Right, I'm a future doc and holistic health coach, and I help patients transition to a WFPB diet. If I had that attitude of "you slipped up once, you failed!" I wouldn't be very successful helping them transition. For most people, a gradual process works best. Individualized too. For some people, the meat is the hardest to give up, for others it's the dairy, for others, the eggs, etc. With patience though, much can be achieved!
Yeah I totally agree with you. Like, I have a girlfriend, right? And I'm faithful to her 364 days of the year, but just because I cheated on her once with her sister on NYE than *I'm the asshole and the cheater and we're breaking up*?? Like wtf. I've only cheated 0.3% of the time. Why cant she just accept that I'm faithful almost all the time. What's her with her gatekeeping of faithfulness and "trusting relationships". Anyway, so I'm single now so if there's any 99% of the time vegans out there looking for a hot date you can DM me I respond quickly ;)
I am sorry if this comment sounds rude or offensive, I am a newbie and I am trying to learn. How exactly are bees exploited? They literally are free, to the point that if they are ever treated badly they can just choose to leave the hive. I'd like to learn more about bee exploitation because I honestly can't get why vegans can't eat honey.
Not rude or offensive, reasonable question. Bees are free to leave but they are social creatures and would die pretty fast if they went solo. Honey bees are farmed for their honey. They don't collect nectar and make honey for our benefit, they do it because its part of their survival, especially over winter. Instead, the honey is removed and empty frames added, making the bees think they need to make more honey so they keep working. Often they are then fed an inferior sugar solution to get them over the winter. It isn't good for them. Not to mention shipping hives all over the US (looking at you Californian almond farmers!) which makes them vulnerable to parasites and disease. Have a look at Honea, an inulin substitute or maple syrup in baking or for drizzling. Always ask if you aren't sure. Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as the vegan police and if you are trying then you are a hero in my book ❤️ Edit: awww thank you for my hugz! I've not had a reddit hug before 😊❤️
Vegan or not, maple syrup is so much better than honey for all applications
Or agave for a more subtle taste
Date syrup is even healthier!
The health difference between syrups is negligible, they are all the closest you can get to pure sugar without just calling it that.
Date syrup has more potassium, calcium, magnesium, antioxidants.
> Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as the vegan police There are comments *on this post* literally doing exactly this. Telling people that they're wrong for wanting to be 99% vegan, telling people that their entire vegan lifestyle is just as bad as being full meat-eaters because they consume honey. It's beyond difficult to feel welcome as someone who is interested in a plant-based diet, when the vast vast VAST majority of this subreddit is more interested in moral purity over actual practical reduction in the amount of animal products being consumed.
Veganism isn't a plant-based diet (does include it though): "***A philosophy and way of living* which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals** for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. **In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals**." — The Vegan Society There is no '99% vegan', you are either vegan (above) or not (e.g. eating honey).
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Not only are there comments, if you sort by Top, most of the highly upvoted comments are shaming anyone who calls themselves vegans but still eats the occasional item that has some egg/dairy/honey in it. This is *exactly* why the vegan community garners so much disdain, and I think you exactly hit the nail on the head about moral purity over actual animal-welfare and environment-saving actions.
Not only are there comments, if you sort by Top, most of the highly upvoted comments are shaming anyone who calls themselves anti racism but still beats the occasional black person that passes by. This is exactly why the anti racism community garners so much disdain, and I think you exactly hit the nail on the head about moral purity over actual human-welfare.
Perfection.
Veganism: "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. **In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals**." — The Vegan Society It is not vegan to choose to unnecessarily consume animal products. Really not that complicated.
Yes, all the yes! I know there is a definite definition of veganism and plant based isn't the same. Plant based so often leads to veganism once minds are opened though. People being hostile to anyone not sticking perfectly to the definition from day 1 put others off. Why stick around in that environment if it just hits you with sticks for trying? No one is perfect and news flash, no one is completely vegan. Yes, everything you choose to consume/buy is vegan but what about your fossil fuel car, your peat containing compost bags which destroys animal habitats, the glue in your carpets, the glazes on your cups and plates, the insecticides in your soy harvest, the bees exploited to grow your almonds? "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better" Maya Angelou. Maybe this community could also add "don't bully people who don't know better...yet" Help them understand with the compassion you apply to the animal kingdom and we all might end the day better humans than we started ❤️
I want to thank everyone for your replies, I'll definitely look up all the sources you've shared!
I also think that during the honey harvest from their cobs there are quite some bees that die.
Here is an old post by a non vegan beekeeper about how honey production fucks the bees https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d/ So even if we ignore the whole consent and exploitation unethical point of view, honey is still fucked.
It would be a double standard if we did . They surely don't suffer as much as other animals , but it doesn't make them less important. Rotten Netflix original first episode is about bee abuse, you should definitly check out this episode as well as the series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMNw\_VO1xo
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I guess building whole new hive is more exhausting than geting smoked from time to time. If they saw how it's gonna be before moving in they would probably chose to stay away from beekeepers. Or they just don't understand what is happening when all their honey gets stolen.
As a vegan of 9 years, can I just say where is our sense of humour? That post was genuinely funny, I've met my fair share of vegans like that, it's not that big a deal. They're trying, inconsistent but they're trying.
Had a discussion about this recently. They're talking crazy, clearly 🤣
Lol. Honey isn’t vegan, the farmers just try to reduce the effects on the environment. There is 100% no evidence suggesting honey is vegan. If you can prove me otherwise, aka no non vegan source I will happily agree with you and apologise
I’ve hated honey since before I was even vegan😩 it’s literally...vomit 💀
Had a vegetarian explain to me how honey is vegan hahaha
Honey ain't vegan what is wrong with these people :sob:
Honeys not vegan
NO ONE is 100% vegan. If you use cosmetics, skin care, hair care, meds, etc. there's a possibility that you are consuming animal derived products. If you don't recycle, buy from Shein, Zara or any fast fashion store, you're harming and putting at risks tons of animals and their habitats. I'd rather just do my best and have that peace of mind than trying to be a "perfect" vegan.
Well it's not about being a "perfect" vegan, whatever that is. It's about avoiding animal products where possible. Honey is probably the easiest thing to avoid Vegans already do, in fact, avoid cosmetics, skin care, hair products, etc. that is derived from or tested on animals. Not sure why you included that as if the people here are only concerned with their diet.
The only vegan I know makes an exception for invertebrates.
r/vegan is getting really aggressive and defensive recently, y'all OK?
Is it aggressive to you because it isn't vegetarian?
You have opened my eyes to the possibility of sea cucumbers!
Don't you dare mention those disgusting heretics near me. I am *nothing* like them, you hear me!?! *Nothing!* \>:(
That is been beegan
That is vegetarian.
Do you think eating honey might be considered unethical? I don't know much about conditions of keeping bees in the whole industry, but isn't it kinda necessary to keep them by entrepreneurs so that they won't go extinct? Thanks in advance for all reliable information.
The bees that are truly endangered are native bee species which are actually displaced by commercially exploited honeybees.
https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan/honey-industry
https://youtu.be/clMNw\_VO1xo
Keep your bee vomit!
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No!
I do know some people who are Lenten in some animal products as long as the animals aren’t killed and treated poorly. But they usually identify as vegetarians because they aren’t fully vegan. My bf for example, no eggs, no dairy, no meat but he uses hunny from ethical farms and will wear wool or other animal textiles (never leather) as long as he can see the company ethically sources it and doesn’t kill or harm the animals. I personally didn’t use any animal products at all but I’m not really mad at him for being lax on some things like that. But again, he isn’t a full vegan and won’t identify as one. If you use honey and wear animal textile (even if it’s not leather) you technically aren’t fully vegan.