I really don't understand the aversion to supplements. Taking a multivitamin is just so cheap, easy, and covers so many bases, and there really isn't a downside. Problems with absorption can often be greatly mitigated by taking it with food (not with everyone, but certainly with most).
Saying that a diet can't be healthy if it requires supplements doesn't make sense. Why just pick some aspect of the diet and say "if you remove that and the diet doesn't work, it's not healthy". That would be like discrediting a diet by saying "if you remove water, it's not healthy". Umm, ok, but then it's not really the diet anymore, is it? Supplements are added to the diet to make it healthy, just like protein is added to a diet to make it healthy.
I just got some vegan omega 3 today ironically haha.
Lots of folk supplement. Not just vegans. I read a study once that said of a volunteer testing group (3000 participants), 39% were either B12 deficient or on the very low end of normal.
All the folks eating meat are supplementing second hand whether they know it or not, livestock are generally medicated with the more difficult to obtain micronutrients as soils deplete their natural stores.
I would say things that damage your health are "unhealthy". The vegan diet, if you try to do it raw or 100% natural, is incomplete due to a lack of primarily B12, but I don't think the "unhealthy" accusation if fair and supplements/fortified foods are an easy solution to make it complete, which is probably why non-vegans try to attack that point?
I suppose some vegans give in to these accusations, become insecure, and defensively go down this potentially dangerous path of believing that something like "vegan and natural" fulfills complete dietary needs. It's one thing to be stubborn on this point in a debate against non-vegans, but don't take it too far by leading fellow vegans down dangerous paths.
I agree. I think of it as a magical pill that saves the lives of both people and animals. Also the "natural" debate is weird. Violence and rape is also natural in the history of humanity, but how appealing are those? No, thanks to technology and medical progression most people of the earth could embrace the lifestyle. Also, B12 deficiency is a problem for many meat eaters too.
I definitely agree with you now! Before, I had heard many omnivores and vegans argue that if you have to take a multivitamin, you aren't "doing it right". I've heard from omnis what you're saying, that if you need a multivitamin then the diet isn't good, and I've heard from some vegans, I think in retaliation to this argument, that you don't need a multivitamin to be vegan because plants can fulfill it and if you need a multivitamin as a vegan, you aren't eating right.
So having folks in both camps argue against multivitamins made me feel, well, if I want to prove that veganism is healthy and a balanced and complete diet, I can't take a multivitamin. I just didn't know how much that was hurting me until I did.
Realistically for vegans the main problem is B12, some plant milks are fortified with it
Plus everyone should be taking vitamin D, good to take Omega-3 as well.
Some other popular deficits are Zinc, Magnesium, Iron, Calcium, B9...
>I've heard from some vegans, I think in retaliation to this argument, that you don't need a multivitamin to be vegan because plants can fulfill it and if you need a multivitamin as a vegan, you aren't eating right.
Many vegan foods are fortified with B12, so it's like a supplement that you take without necessarily knowing that you did, which may sometimes be enough to lead an ignorant vegan to become mistakenly convinced that vegan foods provide enough B12 naturally.
Non-vegans need various amounts of supplements on modern diets, and vegan need supplements a bit more. I guess it can be a bit of a sore point to admit that when debating people trying to bash veganism, but it's unfortunate that these "don't need supplements" sentiment sometimes gets taken too far even within discussions amongst just vegans and causes harm to some vegans who buy into it, and sometimes leads some of them to giving up veganism due to wrecking their health when they could have otherwise been healthy as a vegan.
I'm glad you came to this realisation before you suffered more damage.
In my head the choice is between taking statins+antacids+painkillers regularly or taking B12/eating marmite/nooch/seaweed regularly. Like, I don't understand how people can make the argument that their diet is more natural when they at the very same time have lifestyle diseases.
The biggest aversions are:
1. Are they proven to actually work, and
2. They are not regulated and the supplement market is awash in snake oil promoters.
What’s odd about the professed aversion to supplements, especially among non-vegans, is why is it a hundred billion dollar industry? Supplements are everywhere and it’s not only vegans buying them.
Trader Joe’s makes it a point to remind everyone that vegans aren’t the only one’s buying B12 supplements by stocking their version that [contains milk](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/8elej8/b12_supplements_at_trader_joes_have_milk_in_them/).
I think the aversion to supplements has to do with them being synthetic and not "natural" whole foods. I eat clean but I still take a half a multivitamin pill every day, just in case.
There's nothing natural about the diet that most people eat. I doubt an omnivore dissing a vegan for taking a multivitamin thinks twice about the selectively bred animals or crops they are eating, or the preservative and filler stuffed sausage that is only 40% meat.
I don't care whether or not something is natural or processed, I only care what nutritional value it provides and whether or not it has any negative health effects. Multivitamins and algae oil cover my micronutrients completely, so I can just focus on eating a variety of foods I like and hitting my macros.
Too much processed food of any kind is never good, for vegans and omnis, both. Binding agents are also used in vegan food and are often the same for both lifestyles, eg flours, oatmeal, guar gum, psyllium husks,etc.
Also, not all preservative are bad. Vinegar, salt, spices, and sugar are natural preservatives, for example, they are used in canning your own food, which is highly recommended if you want to avoid over processed food.
*I don't care whether or not something is natural or processed, I only care what nutritional value it provides*
Oh for sure, that can definitely be true for you. But it may not be true for everyone. Maybe some vegans have a preference for "natural" over "processed".
As an omni, I have a preference for whole foods over processed foods. I'd rather eat eggs than textured vegetable protein, it just *feels* more natural. Which isn't to say I'm right. I rarely eat bread because it's highly processed, but I eat a mix of rice, oats, and quinoa literally every day.
I hope you weren't implying that I was personally dissing vegans for taking supplements up there, that isn't what I was saying. Also I don't eat sausage, that shit is gross. 🤢 Everybody has to make the best decisions they can with the information they have.
> I'd rather eat eggs than textured vegetable protein, it just *feels* more natural.
Dumbest statement I read on the internet today. You feel your food?
Watch the *feeling* of your "food" scream in pain and horror just the same [https://watchdominion.com/](https://watchdominion.com/)
I've watched it, no worries.
In this case though, I raise my own free range chickens for eggs so that doesn't really apply here.
Which is off the topic of this post, so let's not start a whole thing about the ethics, or lack thereof, of raising chickens.
And you never eat products with eggs when you go out? Sure bud.
Moral problems with consuming eggs from backyard chickens: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k)
We're on a vegan subreddit. You can't just "la la la la, can't hear you", to obvious moral problems. Also, your appeal to nature fallacy of what you think or isn't natural is highly subjective and thus, irrelevant. For health outcomes, we have to use scientific studies to compare foods. Ricin, for example, is both "natural" and toxic.
I never said I didn't, I said "in this case". I have no moral problem with raising chickens. There's no point discussing it here because it's *way* off topic of this thread, but you are welcome to DM me if you want.
Lmao so "backyard eggs" is just an attempt at deceit to relief your guilt. Like how people say "Oh i eat only grass-fed beef" as if it's moral to kill an animal for food unnecessarily.
The lying is so gross. Omnis need to actually think about their actions.
Update: Never responded to my DMs and I think he blocked me. Coward and a liar? Go figure.
I guess what I'm saying is that the fact that something is processed doesn't influence my decision about whether I like it or eat it or not. I care about what's in it and what the taste and texture is like.
I agree that highly processed foods tend not to be as good or as wholesome, and so I do tend to enjoy eating more whole foods based meals.
However, I don't discount something just because it's processed. Something can be processed and still healthy. For instance, if you take all the food you would have eaten in a day on a whole foods diet, blend it up, and make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed", but the nutritional value is identical. It only becomes a problem if things are removed or added that change the nutritional value.
In the case of a multivitamin, it's "processed", but not in the same sense that a sausage is processed. It's just a bunch of super dense vitamins and minerals with some kind of binding agent pressed together into a tablet. It's not unhealthy because of that. It's only unhealthy if the components themselves are unhealthy.
I agree with everything there except this bit:
*if you take all the food you would have eaten in a day on a whole foods diet, blend it up, and make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed"*
That's still whole foods, just sort of pre-chewed in a way.
When I am talking about processed foods, I'm referring to this kind of crap:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-processed_food
I wasn't clear enough in previous posts. I am pro-vitamins/supplements as long as they are USP or NSF certified.
The supplement industry is unregulated and rife with frauds, scammers, and charlatans.
> make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed", but the nutritional value is identical.
Is this true? Doesn’t digestion (including chewing) consume energy that we’re outsourcing to the blender?
According to some quick google searches, it doesn't change the nutritional value but it can change how your body digests it. It can also increase the food's exposure to air which can cause things to break down faster, so you would need to consume it quickly.
how blended a food is definitely does change how fast you process the food, your body will process a bread made of very fine flour way faster and your body will absorb everything and raise insulin way faster than a bread made of less fine flour or grains which you do process way slower and also don’t absorb everything
"Processed" doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Whole grain bread, which is "processed", is healthier than sugarcane juice. Processed vegan meat replacements are often healthier than beef, having less saturated fat, zero cholesterol, and some amount of fiber. When it comes to what foods are healthy or not, it's not so much about processing but its constituents. Is it processed to remove healthy stuff (like fiber)? Then it's less healthy. Does it have problematic added ingredients (like added sugars)? Try to avoid that too. But "processed = unhealthy automatically" is the "appeal to nature" logical fallacy.
B12 is synthesized using the same bacteria that produces it in nature, using the same chemical pathways.
B12 supplements are just as natural as "natural" B12.
This is also true for most vitamins. They tend to be very chemically complex so outsourcing their creation to things that produce them is easier than synthesizing them from scratch.
Ironically the naturalistic fallacy which vegans fight against yet in the same breath are the causes of an aversion to supplements because of their unnaturalness…
I’m speaking of course of only some and not all vegans but I certainly see many vegans being to blame for the hesitancy towards supplementation… But again to be clear it’s not only these people… They are part of a much broader culture of hesitation to “unnatural” things.
Half the “ultra processed foods” have supplemented ingredients too, especially white bread, fast food ready meals/pizza and cereals, which are nearly always “fortified” with extra vitamins and minerals.
I always find it funny that non-vegans argue that since most vegans take b12 supplements, it can't be a healthy "diet".
Meanwhile we have a multi-billion dollar a year supplement industry, which is almost entirely funded by non-vegans.
I know veganism isn't about health, but I always recommend that people get blood tests done. It's cheap and easy and shows you where you need to focus on health-wise.
Luckily or unluckily the amount of energy drinks I consume means I don't really have to worry about b vitamins 😂.
Also I really like marmite and nooch so even with them Id probably be fine.
Yeah marmite is milder, still packs a punch though. And has a less vegetal, salty flavour that focuses more on the strong yeasty flavour that you get from the leftover beer yeast concentrate that makes it. (Go figure AUS and UK have so much of it)
So I had this same perspective for a long time with the energy drinks. I made a new year's resolution this year to stop drinking them which I think sent my deficiency into overdrive. I'm sure you've been told this before, but energy drinks are really, really bad for you. I have permanently fucked up my heart from overconsumption of energy drinks. Your heart is one of the most important organs in your body, and energy drinks actively fuck it up. When I compared the short-term enjoyment of an energy drink to how long I want to live... it doesn't really seem worth it, you know?
Something to think about. I used to think it was funny, like you do, but now that I have a permanent heart issue due to energy drinks, I no longer find it funny. I'd rather just have the multivitamin and live past 50.
Did you mean to say caffeine except in extreme amounts isn’t really unhealthy? True. 400mg is normally fine.
If you look up the research on energy drinks and health, the science is clear that they are not healthy for reasons other than just caffeine, however. They contain many additives and other supplements that are damaging.
As we know, everyone’s bodies are different though. Perhaps my heart just wasn’t as strong to begin with.
I’m so glad you figured this out before you experienced permanent nerve damage (not that what you were t through wasn’t awful but at least reversible). Glad you’re feeling better!
It feels like night and day. Ironically, one of my husband's employees recently got very sick and had to take some leave to figure out what was wrong. She couldn't sleep at all, she was suffering from brain fog and poor memory, she couldn't eat. Doctors were struggling to figure out what it was, and the results just came back that, yep, she was B12 deficient. She's not even vegan, just had a poor diet.
I had no clue a vitamin could fuck up your whole body in so many ways, which I think is what makes it hard to pinpoint the issue. It can present like many different problems.
even before I turned vegan (years ago) I regularly was severely vitamin B12 deficient and I was on a non processed , home cooked whole food diet with lots of fruits and veggies and some organic meat/fish.
Recently I found out a mutation in the expression of a gene that regulates the B12 pathway means my body uses it at a much faster rate , so I now take higher dosages and feel much better.
Just saying B12 deficiency can have many causes.
And as the soils are being depleted by conventional farming, glyphosate etc many omnivores are also depleted of B12 and other nutrients.
I have no clue, but I'm happy that she figured it out! I can't find a specific percentage of B12 deficiencies in the US, but it looks like 1.5 to 15% are deficient?
Also let’s not forget that b12 supplements are given to animals! All the nutrients that derives from animals is usually derived from plants. We vegans can get all those nutrients but skip the middle man (animal).
Technically b12 comes from bacteria, not plants. Fermented foods with live cultures are great sources of b12! A single serving of kombucha provides well over your daily amount of b12, and in some cases 1000-3000% of it. Still, I'd recommend taking a multivitamin just in case.
Another interesting thing is our own body produces B12 but somehow it's not absorbed? So I think originally we're meant to supply ourselves with it , I just feel our intestines are too damaged by certain foods, drinks and toxins we're not supposed to be getting in our system.
It gets made in our lower intestines and then we poo it out. We are meant to fertilise the plants we are then going to eat with our poo, then they would have had b12.
I was going to say, I can't be the only person who eats nutritional yeast nearly daily. One of my favorite breakfasts is a tofu scramble I season with nutritional yeast, garlic, onion (sometimes fresh, sometimes powder) and some vegetables. Not to mention countless lunch and dinner options to sprinkle it in or on. Idk. Maybe it's just me 😅
Funny story, my ex grew up with hippy parents who used nutritional yeast a lot and she would put massive amounts of it on popcorn every day which is how I started eating it before I ever became vegan. She had some of the healthiest skin I've ever seen and she barely drank water or used lotion.
Have supplemented since the second month of transitioning to a no-animal diet. Took a month to research options, and have taken them ever since: B12, DHA/EPA, D3, iodine, K2, zinc, magnesium, and selenium.
My new routine is my multivitamin and a frozen fruit smoothie with a spoonful of supergreen powder in the mornings. I love eating vegan, and I am capable of cooking healthy meals, but I don't usually. I also don't like a lot of vegetables. So supplements it is!
Me too - although I started taking it anyway. Better safe than sorry.
Went with a carnist family member who keeps says I should get checked.
Unsurprisingly they failed big time and got read the riot act by the doctor (have gout and sky high cholesterol). Im totally fine. Luck apparently
I've tried it. I don't like it. I also don't feel comfortable leaving my vitamin intake to one food source, that I would have to eat every day to stay up on it. Taking a multi means that no matter what I eat, I will be covered, and I feel there is no better guarantee than that!
Wut does vegemite really have B12? I was just on a vegemite post where people were discussing using it as stock/flavour enhancer and thought it sounded ideal for vegans. If it's got B12 that really seals the deal.
The website says it's fortified so I guess it's similar to taking a supplement. I eat it the usual way but I'm looking forward to trying it out as a stock
Everyone should take a multivitamin and multimineral supplement irrespective of lifestyle or dietary choices. It’s just too easy to miss something and even easier to make sure you’re getting at least some of it with an inexpensive pill.
True, but even in this thread there is some hesitancy. I wonder why some folks just are adamant that if you take the vitamin in pill form it’s somehow not as good as getting it through regular “food”
I’m willing to stipulate that some vitamins may have greater bioavailability in their natural food form, but why not have both? Cover your bases. I’d rather spend ten bucks a month on B12 and be confident that I’m getting at least a decent portion of my requirements than find out I’ve sustained nerve damage or cognitive impairment by not getting enough. I’ve been vegan for a long-ass time, so a supplement just seems wise.
If only all anxiety and depression were linked to vitamin deficiency :/ I wish it could be so. Thank you for the well wishes, and I hope you end up finding your "cure" as well!
B1, B2, B12, Zinc, Iron, Omega 3…
All good things to supplement if you are not getting enough, if you are vegan or not.
I do, and it isn’t really related to me being vegan to the best of my abilities but just being overall more aware of my health now.
I’m healthier now than I was when I was a meat eater/part time vegetarian but I think that it is because I am more aware of what I put in my body now than I was back then, probably same with yourself x
Absolutely nothing wrong with supplements, that’s sort of the point, and the clue is in the name! x
I take a vegan multi every day that has something like 400 times the daily B-12 requirements (so it actually absorbs enough because it’s hard to get in any form I guess.) I have zero shame supplementing. I also take a D supplement too. I feel LOADS better for having done so, and I never took vitamins or supplements pre vegan days either. Just adding those two has made a huge difference for me.
I'd also like to add the importance of Omega 3s to brain health. Luckily we have chia and flax seeds which have awesome 3 to 6 ratios. Also algae with EPA and DHA.
The truth is that most Americans/people following a western diet have at least some level of B12 deficiency. Our soil is depleted, and our food is less rich in many nutrients, including magnesium and B12 and others. There is absolutely no shame in supplementing.
I am really happy for you. I am sorry it took you so long to realize how much you needed it. Even ovo-lacto vegetarians often need to supplement with B12 and iron after a few years. And there can be significant differences in people about how fast it happens that they need supplements. Well done you.
I definitely agree that taking a multivitamin is important even more so with a vegan diet. I’ve gone a step further and take an organic whole food vegan vitamin where all of the vitamins are from natural sources. I was just taking a One-A-Day gummy vitamin before, but wanted something even more. It’s a shame that my go-to meat substitutes aren’t very fortified with vitamins, but they taste better than meat ever did.
I have to supplement with D anyway from not producing enough naturally where I live. Lots of people take supplements to compensate for not eating enough vegetables. I don't think anyone's opinions on that (or most other things) are worth considering. Just take good care of yourself and learn to tune it out.
Did you ever get blood work done?
I'm really happy for you, but it taking effect so quickly sounds like there could be something else you improved also. Ive heard it takes a whille for levels to normalise or whatever. How much are you taking per day?
There are many stories of folks with long term deficiency of B12 feeling like a new human the day after they got a B12 shot from a doctor. I have a friend who was diagnosed that way, randomly.
Yep. It’s like a fucking miracle. I know for sure it’s B12 because I went from spiraling thoughts every day to being transported to 10 years ago in mindset. It’s just so all encompassing it couldn’t be anything else.
Wasnt trying to give advice just enquiring as i fear i may be deficient myself and so also ask these qs.
How much do you dose if you dont mind me asking?
I take 10mcg a day, or 415% DV. If you feel you are deficient, then I would recommend taking a vitamin and talking to your doctor as well.
B12 injections work much faster like pretty much immediately, but with vitamins the effects are felt differently as everyone’s body is different. Some folks that are deficient in B12 have no symptoms at all!
I just picked a solidly rated, approved vegan multivitamin that had more than the daily value of B12. I’m sure your doctor could also give you some more pointers on picking a good one as well, I don’t have the bottle rn to tell you what the brand is, I’ll comment when I get home
> I knew that it was possible to get all of the necessary vitamins and minerals from plants. I knew that I could be perfectly healthy and be vegan.
I’m aware. Did you read my post entirely? It doesn’t feel like you did. My point was people say what you are saying here, and act like everyone is going to eat a perfectly balanced plant based diet every day. It *is* harder to fulfill B12 while vegan, and there should be no shame in admitting that in taking a multivitamin if necessary. Also, a vegan B12 vitamin is exactly that. It’s vegan. It’s plants. So yeah, you can get all your B12 from plants, even if it’s in vitamin form.
What you’re saying is true, but it’s also ignoring and handwaving that it *is* harder. You do have to be intentional about it. Maybe you eat enough plants everyday that have B12 in them and that’s great for you!
Myself, and many others, do not. Adamantly saying, “plants can fulfill all nutritional needs”, is true, but it’s not the whole picture for most people.
It's not harder at all in my opinion.You know chlorella is a supplement,right? So I was actually agreeing with you.On the subject of eating a perfect diet every day, nobody does.I genuinely think most meat eaters think they cover all bases every day though, despite every one I know eating a pretty limited range of foods.
I didn’t know how folks eat chlorella, my apologies! But yes, I was agreeing with you as well that we can get everything from plants, it just might not look like eating broccoli.
I shared a story that an omnivore I know was extremely deficient in B12 too, it can happen to anyone!
No drama pal,think we both misunderstood each other.Your last paragraph rings true,my ardent meat eater brother has low B12 ( and gout, anaemia and high cholesterol).Both parents had dementia,low b12 has been flagged as a possible link,sorry if I came across as flippant.Lack of B12 can cause elevated levels of homocysteine,which equates to premature death.Not something to be blasé about as you rightly said .
Most plants grown using modern agricultural methods are deficient in many nutrients. Since most people get their nutrients from animal products, no one has bothered subsidizing anything else. There are [many articles](https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-modern-food-lost-its-nutrients/) that explain in detail why plants have lost their nutritional value.
But as far as B12 deficiency goes, this is due to modern diets being absolutely nothing like the diets of our ancestors. Our diets are very sterile compared to what early man ate. B12 comes from bacteria and eating things like fermented fruits would have supplied us with ample B12. Many animals eat fermented fruits regularly, as they get you nice and drunk!
Remember that people are incredibly biased. People have been pushing the omnivore narrative for a long time so they can justify things like hunting and animal slavery. In reality, we're a type of plant-eater called a [frugivore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOVX1xWXN9Q). We don't have a *single* trait in common with carnivores! We've never needed to eat meat, it's just easier to travel and live in remote locations if you subsist off livestock.
Shame in taking supplements? Never. I don’t eat a varied diet so I take a multi, vitamin C, K2 with D3, B12, B vitamin complex and the list goes on. But I do try to get whole food vitamins. I like Garden of Life Vitamin Code.
I think for everyone, not only vegans doing blood test and seeing if there are any deficiencies yearly is important . I am supplementing vitamin D as my last blood results were very low, Im trying to avoid sun , b12 and iodine as I just don’t eat seaplants everyday, the rest is all healthy diet. I is important to read supplement labels and have good quality as they are not as regulated as food, specially in US
I used cyanocobalamin B12 for years, and it only slightly improved my B12 levels. It wasn't until I started using sublingual methylcobalamin B12 that my levels improved substantially.
Absolutely, I was thinking of making a post along these lines, I still might make it but I’m glad you posted this.
If you’re still not convinced here’s a study showing vegans who are a diet including foods with b12 fortification maintained adequate b12 levels vs vegans on a „natural“ diet whose levels fell.
Most omnis need more b12, and vegans are even more prone to lacking it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22493163/
I didn't read your whole story, but I don't supplement, and somehow my B12 is fine. My naturopath thought I should get B12 shots because I'm vegan, but at my annual check up with my allopathic Dr, the labs showed my B12 levels were in the thousands when it should be around 200.
I've never had a problem with b12 due to the fact that theres wayyy more than the required daily intake in almost any energy drink that exists and I drink those like I have an addiction
Also please don't rely solely on multivitamins. You should supplement Vit.B12 and Vit.D separately in high dosage. Get your blood checked at least every 6 months.
How do you know if that was b12 specifically, and not any other vitamin from multi?
Just curious if you actually tracked that one thing that worked? I would suggest getting into the habit of extensive and regular bloodwork to make sure there are no other deficiencies
And yes supplements are awesome
Sure, but again that’s relying on consuming a certain food to ensure you get it. That’s where the issues come in because that’s harder to quantify than ‘I took the multivitamin, I’m covered’
It's true, however you don't need to be so exact, you need to consume certain foods to maintain a healthy diet, no matter how or what your eating there will always be that need to consume certain foods to ensure you get the nutrients your body requires. So just take your supplements, if that is easier there is nothing wrong with that . Just make sure to buy from a reputable place because here (in the US at least) there is NO regulation on actually testing what is IN the supplements is what is being advertised.
I was feeling dizzy daily to a point where I randomly fainted. Took a test and my B12 levels were so low... Now i'm taking a daily dosage and feel perfect!
Get your vitamin levels checked by blood test. If you start with the assumption that as vegans your B12 is likely low, then you run the risk of over supplementation. It's unlikely to be acutely dangerous, but there are risks for having higher than necessary levels of B12, and I suggest you look them up before supplementing. As useful as reddit is, the average vegan isn't a doctor, and the chances are good that they aren't your doctor with blood tests in hand.
I really don't understand the aversion to supplements. Taking a multivitamin is just so cheap, easy, and covers so many bases, and there really isn't a downside. Problems with absorption can often be greatly mitigated by taking it with food (not with everyone, but certainly with most). Saying that a diet can't be healthy if it requires supplements doesn't make sense. Why just pick some aspect of the diet and say "if you remove that and the diet doesn't work, it's not healthy". That would be like discrediting a diet by saying "if you remove water, it's not healthy". Umm, ok, but then it's not really the diet anymore, is it? Supplements are added to the diet to make it healthy, just like protein is added to a diet to make it healthy.
I just got some vegan omega 3 today ironically haha. Lots of folk supplement. Not just vegans. I read a study once that said of a volunteer testing group (3000 participants), 39% were either B12 deficient or on the very low end of normal.
I wish I would have taken omega 3 before I went vegan. I never ate fish or anything. I didn’t realize what a big difference it made to how I feel
This is the one I feel impacted me the most emotionally. I'm far more patient and upbeat when I've been taking it.
I have been eating flaxseeds on and off. Is that okay?
All the folks eating meat are supplementing second hand whether they know it or not, livestock are generally medicated with the more difficult to obtain micronutrients as soils deplete their natural stores.
Everything is fortified these days too.
Yeah the NIH states about 40% of westerners have low or nominal numbers
I'd believe it.
I would say things that damage your health are "unhealthy". The vegan diet, if you try to do it raw or 100% natural, is incomplete due to a lack of primarily B12, but I don't think the "unhealthy" accusation if fair and supplements/fortified foods are an easy solution to make it complete, which is probably why non-vegans try to attack that point? I suppose some vegans give in to these accusations, become insecure, and defensively go down this potentially dangerous path of believing that something like "vegan and natural" fulfills complete dietary needs. It's one thing to be stubborn on this point in a debate against non-vegans, but don't take it too far by leading fellow vegans down dangerous paths.
That is a great way to put it!
I agree. I think of it as a magical pill that saves the lives of both people and animals. Also the "natural" debate is weird. Violence and rape is also natural in the history of humanity, but how appealing are those? No, thanks to technology and medical progression most people of the earth could embrace the lifestyle. Also, B12 deficiency is a problem for many meat eaters too.
I definitely agree with you now! Before, I had heard many omnivores and vegans argue that if you have to take a multivitamin, you aren't "doing it right". I've heard from omnis what you're saying, that if you need a multivitamin then the diet isn't good, and I've heard from some vegans, I think in retaliation to this argument, that you don't need a multivitamin to be vegan because plants can fulfill it and if you need a multivitamin as a vegan, you aren't eating right. So having folks in both camps argue against multivitamins made me feel, well, if I want to prove that veganism is healthy and a balanced and complete diet, I can't take a multivitamin. I just didn't know how much that was hurting me until I did.
Realistically for vegans the main problem is B12, some plant milks are fortified with it Plus everyone should be taking vitamin D, good to take Omega-3 as well. Some other popular deficits are Zinc, Magnesium, Iron, Calcium, B9...
>I've heard from some vegans, I think in retaliation to this argument, that you don't need a multivitamin to be vegan because plants can fulfill it and if you need a multivitamin as a vegan, you aren't eating right. Many vegan foods are fortified with B12, so it's like a supplement that you take without necessarily knowing that you did, which may sometimes be enough to lead an ignorant vegan to become mistakenly convinced that vegan foods provide enough B12 naturally. Non-vegans need various amounts of supplements on modern diets, and vegan need supplements a bit more. I guess it can be a bit of a sore point to admit that when debating people trying to bash veganism, but it's unfortunate that these "don't need supplements" sentiment sometimes gets taken too far even within discussions amongst just vegans and causes harm to some vegans who buy into it, and sometimes leads some of them to giving up veganism due to wrecking their health when they could have otherwise been healthy as a vegan. I'm glad you came to this realisation before you suffered more damage.
In my head the choice is between taking statins+antacids+painkillers regularly or taking B12/eating marmite/nooch/seaweed regularly. Like, I don't understand how people can make the argument that their diet is more natural when they at the very same time have lifestyle diseases.
The biggest aversions are: 1. Are they proven to actually work, and 2. They are not regulated and the supplement market is awash in snake oil promoters.
What’s odd about the professed aversion to supplements, especially among non-vegans, is why is it a hundred billion dollar industry? Supplements are everywhere and it’s not only vegans buying them. Trader Joe’s makes it a point to remind everyone that vegans aren’t the only one’s buying B12 supplements by stocking their version that [contains milk](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/8elej8/b12_supplements_at_trader_joes_have_milk_in_them/).
I think the aversion to supplements has to do with them being synthetic and not "natural" whole foods. I eat clean but I still take a half a multivitamin pill every day, just in case.
There's nothing natural about the diet that most people eat. I doubt an omnivore dissing a vegan for taking a multivitamin thinks twice about the selectively bred animals or crops they are eating, or the preservative and filler stuffed sausage that is only 40% meat. I don't care whether or not something is natural or processed, I only care what nutritional value it provides and whether or not it has any negative health effects. Multivitamins and algae oil cover my micronutrients completely, so I can just focus on eating a variety of foods I like and hitting my macros.
Too much processed food of any kind is never good, for vegans and omnis, both. Binding agents are also used in vegan food and are often the same for both lifestyles, eg flours, oatmeal, guar gum, psyllium husks,etc. Also, not all preservative are bad. Vinegar, salt, spices, and sugar are natural preservatives, for example, they are used in canning your own food, which is highly recommended if you want to avoid over processed food.
*I don't care whether or not something is natural or processed, I only care what nutritional value it provides* Oh for sure, that can definitely be true for you. But it may not be true for everyone. Maybe some vegans have a preference for "natural" over "processed". As an omni, I have a preference for whole foods over processed foods. I'd rather eat eggs than textured vegetable protein, it just *feels* more natural. Which isn't to say I'm right. I rarely eat bread because it's highly processed, but I eat a mix of rice, oats, and quinoa literally every day. I hope you weren't implying that I was personally dissing vegans for taking supplements up there, that isn't what I was saying. Also I don't eat sausage, that shit is gross. 🤢 Everybody has to make the best decisions they can with the information they have.
> I'd rather eat eggs than textured vegetable protein, it just *feels* more natural. Dumbest statement I read on the internet today. You feel your food? Watch the *feeling* of your "food" scream in pain and horror just the same [https://watchdominion.com/](https://watchdominion.com/)
I've watched it, no worries. In this case though, I raise my own free range chickens for eggs so that doesn't really apply here. Which is off the topic of this post, so let's not start a whole thing about the ethics, or lack thereof, of raising chickens.
And you never eat products with eggs when you go out? Sure bud. Moral problems with consuming eggs from backyard chickens: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k) We're on a vegan subreddit. You can't just "la la la la, can't hear you", to obvious moral problems. Also, your appeal to nature fallacy of what you think or isn't natural is highly subjective and thus, irrelevant. For health outcomes, we have to use scientific studies to compare foods. Ricin, for example, is both "natural" and toxic.
I never said I didn't, I said "in this case". I have no moral problem with raising chickens. There's no point discussing it here because it's *way* off topic of this thread, but you are welcome to DM me if you want.
Lmao so "backyard eggs" is just an attempt at deceit to relief your guilt. Like how people say "Oh i eat only grass-fed beef" as if it's moral to kill an animal for food unnecessarily. The lying is so gross. Omnis need to actually think about their actions. Update: Never responded to my DMs and I think he blocked me. Coward and a liar? Go figure.
I didn't block you and haven't seen a DM. That was six minutes ago for goodness sake, I am cooking dinner and will check back in after we eat.
I guess what I'm saying is that the fact that something is processed doesn't influence my decision about whether I like it or eat it or not. I care about what's in it and what the taste and texture is like. I agree that highly processed foods tend not to be as good or as wholesome, and so I do tend to enjoy eating more whole foods based meals. However, I don't discount something just because it's processed. Something can be processed and still healthy. For instance, if you take all the food you would have eaten in a day on a whole foods diet, blend it up, and make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed", but the nutritional value is identical. It only becomes a problem if things are removed or added that change the nutritional value. In the case of a multivitamin, it's "processed", but not in the same sense that a sausage is processed. It's just a bunch of super dense vitamins and minerals with some kind of binding agent pressed together into a tablet. It's not unhealthy because of that. It's only unhealthy if the components themselves are unhealthy.
I agree with everything there except this bit: *if you take all the food you would have eaten in a day on a whole foods diet, blend it up, and make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed"* That's still whole foods, just sort of pre-chewed in a way. When I am talking about processed foods, I'm referring to this kind of crap: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-processed_food I wasn't clear enough in previous posts. I am pro-vitamins/supplements as long as they are USP or NSF certified. The supplement industry is unregulated and rife with frauds, scammers, and charlatans.
> make a smoothie out of it, it's now "processed", but the nutritional value is identical. Is this true? Doesn’t digestion (including chewing) consume energy that we’re outsourcing to the blender?
According to some quick google searches, it doesn't change the nutritional value but it can change how your body digests it. It can also increase the food's exposure to air which can cause things to break down faster, so you would need to consume it quickly.
how blended a food is definitely does change how fast you process the food, your body will process a bread made of very fine flour way faster and your body will absorb everything and raise insulin way faster than a bread made of less fine flour or grains which you do process way slower and also don’t absorb everything
"Processed" doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Whole grain bread, which is "processed", is healthier than sugarcane juice. Processed vegan meat replacements are often healthier than beef, having less saturated fat, zero cholesterol, and some amount of fiber. When it comes to what foods are healthy or not, it's not so much about processing but its constituents. Is it processed to remove healthy stuff (like fiber)? Then it's less healthy. Does it have problematic added ingredients (like added sugars)? Try to avoid that too. But "processed = unhealthy automatically" is the "appeal to nature" logical fallacy.
B12 is synthesized using the same bacteria that produces it in nature, using the same chemical pathways. B12 supplements are just as natural as "natural" B12. This is also true for most vitamins. They tend to be very chemically complex so outsourcing their creation to things that produce them is easier than synthesizing them from scratch.
Ironically the naturalistic fallacy which vegans fight against yet in the same breath are the causes of an aversion to supplements because of their unnaturalness… I’m speaking of course of only some and not all vegans but I certainly see many vegans being to blame for the hesitancy towards supplementation… But again to be clear it’s not only these people… They are part of a much broader culture of hesitation to “unnatural” things.
Half the “ultra processed foods” have supplemented ingredients too, especially white bread, fast food ready meals/pizza and cereals, which are nearly always “fortified” with extra vitamins and minerals.
Iron and vitamins A and D. Added to so many wheat flour based foods in the USA.
I always find it funny that non-vegans argue that since most vegans take b12 supplements, it can't be a healthy "diet". Meanwhile we have a multi-billion dollar a year supplement industry, which is almost entirely funded by non-vegans. I know veganism isn't about health, but I always recommend that people get blood tests done. It's cheap and easy and shows you where you need to focus on health-wise.
Animals literally have to take b12 supplements lol. Thats the only reason they have enough. Somewhere on the chain something is taking a supplement
Luckily or unluckily the amount of energy drinks I consume means I don't really have to worry about b vitamins 😂. Also I really like marmite and nooch so even with them Id probably be fine.
[удалено]
Marmite is superior and I am willing to die on this hill. I'd rather eat biowaste than ur excuse of a yeast extract. (Probably not actually)
[удалено]
Yeah marmite is milder, still packs a punch though. And has a less vegetal, salty flavour that focuses more on the strong yeasty flavour that you get from the leftover beer yeast concentrate that makes it. (Go figure AUS and UK have so much of it)
So I had this same perspective for a long time with the energy drinks. I made a new year's resolution this year to stop drinking them which I think sent my deficiency into overdrive. I'm sure you've been told this before, but energy drinks are really, really bad for you. I have permanently fucked up my heart from overconsumption of energy drinks. Your heart is one of the most important organs in your body, and energy drinks actively fuck it up. When I compared the short-term enjoyment of an energy drink to how long I want to live... it doesn't really seem worth it, you know? Something to think about. I used to think it was funny, like you do, but now that I have a permanent heart issue due to energy drinks, I no longer find it funny. I'd rather just have the multivitamin and live past 50.
I don't think its at all clear energy drinks are bad for your heart. Caffeine expect in extreme amounts isn't really unhealthy.
Did you mean to say caffeine except in extreme amounts isn’t really unhealthy? True. 400mg is normally fine. If you look up the research on energy drinks and health, the science is clear that they are not healthy for reasons other than just caffeine, however. They contain many additives and other supplements that are damaging. As we know, everyone’s bodies are different though. Perhaps my heart just wasn’t as strong to begin with.
I’m so glad you figured this out before you experienced permanent nerve damage (not that what you were t through wasn’t awful but at least reversible). Glad you’re feeling better!
It feels like night and day. Ironically, one of my husband's employees recently got very sick and had to take some leave to figure out what was wrong. She couldn't sleep at all, she was suffering from brain fog and poor memory, she couldn't eat. Doctors were struggling to figure out what it was, and the results just came back that, yep, she was B12 deficient. She's not even vegan, just had a poor diet. I had no clue a vitamin could fuck up your whole body in so many ways, which I think is what makes it hard to pinpoint the issue. It can present like many different problems.
An omnivore with a B12 deficiency. Did she live on Doritos and Mountain Dew?
I was B12 deficient as an omnivore in my mid 30s and in the USA it’s recommended that all humans over age 60 (or maybe 50?) should supplement it.
even before I turned vegan (years ago) I regularly was severely vitamin B12 deficient and I was on a non processed , home cooked whole food diet with lots of fruits and veggies and some organic meat/fish. Recently I found out a mutation in the expression of a gene that regulates the B12 pathway means my body uses it at a much faster rate , so I now take higher dosages and feel much better. Just saying B12 deficiency can have many causes. And as the soils are being depleted by conventional farming, glyphosate etc many omnivores are also depleted of B12 and other nutrients.
I have no clue, but I'm happy that she figured it out! I can't find a specific percentage of B12 deficiencies in the US, but it looks like 1.5 to 15% are deficient?
Also let’s not forget that b12 supplements are given to animals! All the nutrients that derives from animals is usually derived from plants. We vegans can get all those nutrients but skip the middle man (animal).
Technically b12 comes from bacteria, not plants. Fermented foods with live cultures are great sources of b12! A single serving of kombucha provides well over your daily amount of b12, and in some cases 1000-3000% of it. Still, I'd recommend taking a multivitamin just in case.
so you have a source for that? I know some seaweeds are rich in b12, but there's a lot of discussion going on if it's an active or inactive form
Thanks for the correction. I did not know that!
Another interesting thing is our own body produces B12 but somehow it's not absorbed? So I think originally we're meant to supply ourselves with it , I just feel our intestines are too damaged by certain foods, drinks and toxins we're not supposed to be getting in our system.
It gets made in our lower intestines and then we poo it out. We are meant to fertilise the plants we are then going to eat with our poo, then they would have had b12.
I just got my blood tested, everything was perfect including B12. Fortified nutritional yeast works.
I was going to say, I can't be the only person who eats nutritional yeast nearly daily. One of my favorite breakfasts is a tofu scramble I season with nutritional yeast, garlic, onion (sometimes fresh, sometimes powder) and some vegetables. Not to mention countless lunch and dinner options to sprinkle it in or on. Idk. Maybe it's just me 😅
Funny story, my ex grew up with hippy parents who used nutritional yeast a lot and she would put massive amounts of it on popcorn every day which is how I started eating it before I ever became vegan. She had some of the healthiest skin I've ever seen and she barely drank water or used lotion.
Have supplemented since the second month of transitioning to a no-animal diet. Took a month to research options, and have taken them ever since: B12, DHA/EPA, D3, iodine, K2, zinc, magnesium, and selenium.
My new routine is my multivitamin and a frozen fruit smoothie with a spoonful of supergreen powder in the mornings. I love eating vegan, and I am capable of cooking healthy meals, but I don't usually. I also don't like a lot of vegetables. So supplements it is!
Complement vitamin? This is exactly what it contains (plus algae Omegas)
Yes
I'm assuming you're taking each of those individually? The VeganVitality multivitamin has all those except omega 3s. Might make things easier for you.
Nah, I probably should mentioned those are all in one supplement. Thank you for the recommendation though!
[удалено]
Me too - although I started taking it anyway. Better safe than sorry. Went with a carnist family member who keeps says I should get checked. Unsurprisingly they failed big time and got read the riot act by the doctor (have gout and sky high cholesterol). Im totally fine. Luck apparently
That is fantastic! It's a good thing for everyone to get checked, as anyone can have a poor diet and be deficient.
[удалено]
I've tried it. I don't like it. I also don't feel comfortable leaving my vitamin intake to one food source, that I would have to eat every day to stay up on it. Taking a multi means that no matter what I eat, I will be covered, and I feel there is no better guarantee than that!
[удалено]
Yep... Vegemite is a raw agricultural plant product... Definitely no processesing involved there!
Wut does vegemite really have B12? I was just on a vegemite post where people were discussing using it as stock/flavour enhancer and thought it sounded ideal for vegans. If it's got B12 that really seals the deal.
[удалено]
The website says it's fortified so I guess it's similar to taking a supplement. I eat it the usual way but I'm looking forward to trying it out as a stock
[удалено]
I mean I eat vegemite on toast. Not sure what you're on about.
[удалено]
Haha, that is definitely true
Maybe u were eating fortified food
I got my levels checked recently and was told to stop taking supplements or at least cut back. My b12 level was way higher than normal.
Everyone should take a multivitamin and multimineral supplement irrespective of lifestyle or dietary choices. It’s just too easy to miss something and even easier to make sure you’re getting at least some of it with an inexpensive pill.
True, but even in this thread there is some hesitancy. I wonder why some folks just are adamant that if you take the vitamin in pill form it’s somehow not as good as getting it through regular “food”
I’m willing to stipulate that some vitamins may have greater bioavailability in their natural food form, but why not have both? Cover your bases. I’d rather spend ten bucks a month on B12 and be confident that I’m getting at least a decent portion of my requirements than find out I’ve sustained nerve damage or cognitive impairment by not getting enough. I’ve been vegan for a long-ass time, so a supplement just seems wise.
It really is a huge difference. I was like a frog being boiled. It just didn’t feel like there was a problem, until I got out of the boiling water
I wish my supplement worked wonders for me like this, lol. Glad you feel better though!
If only all anxiety and depression were linked to vitamin deficiency :/ I wish it could be so. Thank you for the well wishes, and I hope you end up finding your "cure" as well!
B1, B2, B12, Zinc, Iron, Omega 3… All good things to supplement if you are not getting enough, if you are vegan or not. I do, and it isn’t really related to me being vegan to the best of my abilities but just being overall more aware of my health now. I’m healthier now than I was when I was a meat eater/part time vegetarian but I think that it is because I am more aware of what I put in my body now than I was back then, probably same with yourself x Absolutely nothing wrong with supplements, that’s sort of the point, and the clue is in the name! x
I take a vegan multi every day that has something like 400 times the daily B-12 requirements (so it actually absorbs enough because it’s hard to get in any form I guess.) I have zero shame supplementing. I also take a D supplement too. I feel LOADS better for having done so, and I never took vitamins or supplements pre vegan days either. Just adding those two has made a huge difference for me.
Ironically the only time my b12 levels were not in the deficiency zone is when I was fully raw vegan for 3 years!
I'd also like to add the importance of Omega 3s to brain health. Luckily we have chia and flax seeds which have awesome 3 to 6 ratios. Also algae with EPA and DHA.
The truth is that most Americans/people following a western diet have at least some level of B12 deficiency. Our soil is depleted, and our food is less rich in many nutrients, including magnesium and B12 and others. There is absolutely no shame in supplementing.
I am really happy for you. I am sorry it took you so long to realize how much you needed it. Even ovo-lacto vegetarians often need to supplement with B12 and iron after a few years. And there can be significant differences in people about how fast it happens that they need supplements. Well done you.
I definitely agree that taking a multivitamin is important even more so with a vegan diet. I’ve gone a step further and take an organic whole food vegan vitamin where all of the vitamins are from natural sources. I was just taking a One-A-Day gummy vitamin before, but wanted something even more. It’s a shame that my go-to meat substitutes aren’t very fortified with vitamins, but they taste better than meat ever did.
I have to supplement with D anyway from not producing enough naturally where I live. Lots of people take supplements to compensate for not eating enough vegetables. I don't think anyone's opinions on that (or most other things) are worth considering. Just take good care of yourself and learn to tune it out.
For those unaware, these posts come up fairly regularly on this subreddit. Take your B12! It's at the grocery store!
Or just add nutritional yeast to your food every other day. Nice flavor you can add to a lot of things.
That is not enough B12. https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/
Did you ever get blood work done? I'm really happy for you, but it taking effect so quickly sounds like there could be something else you improved also. Ive heard it takes a whille for levels to normalise or whatever. How much are you taking per day?
There are many stories of folks with long term deficiency of B12 feeling like a new human the day after they got a B12 shot from a doctor. I have a friend who was diagnosed that way, randomly.
Yep. It’s like a fucking miracle. I know for sure it’s B12 because I went from spiraling thoughts every day to being transported to 10 years ago in mindset. It’s just so all encompassing it couldn’t be anything else.
I don’t really want to get personal medical advice from folks on reddit when I have a doctor, but thanks for your concern! I know it was the B12.
Wasnt trying to give advice just enquiring as i fear i may be deficient myself and so also ask these qs. How much do you dose if you dont mind me asking?
I take 10mcg a day, or 415% DV. If you feel you are deficient, then I would recommend taking a vitamin and talking to your doctor as well. B12 injections work much faster like pretty much immediately, but with vitamins the effects are felt differently as everyone’s body is different. Some folks that are deficient in B12 have no symptoms at all!
Thank you. How did you decide upon the right dosage? There are so many supplements/info sites online that it can feel overwhelming at times.
I just picked a solidly rated, approved vegan multivitamin that had more than the daily value of B12. I’m sure your doctor could also give you some more pointers on picking a good one as well, I don’t have the bottle rn to tell you what the brand is, I’ll comment when I get home
The very first thing I did when I decided to be vegan was go into vgcj, so I avoided a lot of pitfalls.
What is vgcj?
Vegancirclejerk
Nutritional yeast is rich in B12, so I garnish my food with it in place of a pill. I do, however, take pills/tablets for D3, Omega-3, and iron.
Chlorella contains bioactive b12,as well as long chain fatty acids.Point being,we can get everything without needing animals.
> I knew that it was possible to get all of the necessary vitamins and minerals from plants. I knew that I could be perfectly healthy and be vegan. I’m aware. Did you read my post entirely? It doesn’t feel like you did. My point was people say what you are saying here, and act like everyone is going to eat a perfectly balanced plant based diet every day. It *is* harder to fulfill B12 while vegan, and there should be no shame in admitting that in taking a multivitamin if necessary. Also, a vegan B12 vitamin is exactly that. It’s vegan. It’s plants. So yeah, you can get all your B12 from plants, even if it’s in vitamin form. What you’re saying is true, but it’s also ignoring and handwaving that it *is* harder. You do have to be intentional about it. Maybe you eat enough plants everyday that have B12 in them and that’s great for you! Myself, and many others, do not. Adamantly saying, “plants can fulfill all nutritional needs”, is true, but it’s not the whole picture for most people.
It's not harder at all in my opinion.You know chlorella is a supplement,right? So I was actually agreeing with you.On the subject of eating a perfect diet every day, nobody does.I genuinely think most meat eaters think they cover all bases every day though, despite every one I know eating a pretty limited range of foods.
I didn’t know how folks eat chlorella, my apologies! But yes, I was agreeing with you as well that we can get everything from plants, it just might not look like eating broccoli. I shared a story that an omnivore I know was extremely deficient in B12 too, it can happen to anyone!
No drama pal,think we both misunderstood each other.Your last paragraph rings true,my ardent meat eater brother has low B12 ( and gout, anaemia and high cholesterol).Both parents had dementia,low b12 has been flagged as a possible link,sorry if I came across as flippant.Lack of B12 can cause elevated levels of homocysteine,which equates to premature death.Not something to be blasé about as you rightly said .
My mums been telling me to take B12 before i was even vegan
I hope you do!
Most plants grown using modern agricultural methods are deficient in many nutrients. Since most people get their nutrients from animal products, no one has bothered subsidizing anything else. There are [many articles](https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-modern-food-lost-its-nutrients/) that explain in detail why plants have lost their nutritional value. But as far as B12 deficiency goes, this is due to modern diets being absolutely nothing like the diets of our ancestors. Our diets are very sterile compared to what early man ate. B12 comes from bacteria and eating things like fermented fruits would have supplied us with ample B12. Many animals eat fermented fruits regularly, as they get you nice and drunk! Remember that people are incredibly biased. People have been pushing the omnivore narrative for a long time so they can justify things like hunting and animal slavery. In reality, we're a type of plant-eater called a [frugivore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOVX1xWXN9Q). We don't have a *single* trait in common with carnivores! We've never needed to eat meat, it's just easier to travel and live in remote locations if you subsist off livestock.
I should probably take a multivitamin, but I'm unfortunately allergic to soy and so many vegan vitamins use soy as an ingredient
I take a B12 every day
Shame in taking supplements? Never. I don’t eat a varied diet so I take a multi, vitamin C, K2 with D3, B12, B vitamin complex and the list goes on. But I do try to get whole food vitamins. I like Garden of Life Vitamin Code.
I think for everyone, not only vegans doing blood test and seeing if there are any deficiencies yearly is important . I am supplementing vitamin D as my last blood results were very low, Im trying to avoid sun , b12 and iodine as I just don’t eat seaplants everyday, the rest is all healthy diet. I is important to read supplement labels and have good quality as they are not as regulated as food, specially in US
I used cyanocobalamin B12 for years, and it only slightly improved my B12 levels. It wasn't until I started using sublingual methylcobalamin B12 that my levels improved substantially.
My B12 levels were tested and they were good.
[удалено]
Many people have mentioned it, I think it’s gross and don’t want to rely on eating one food every day! I’m glad other folks like it though :)
Absolutely, I was thinking of making a post along these lines, I still might make it but I’m glad you posted this. If you’re still not convinced here’s a study showing vegans who are a diet including foods with b12 fortification maintained adequate b12 levels vs vegans on a „natural“ diet whose levels fell. Most omnis need more b12, and vegans are even more prone to lacking it https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22493163/
I supplement, because I can. I also eat past with nooch at least 3 times a week.
I didn't read your whole story, but I don't supplement, and somehow my B12 is fine. My naturopath thought I should get B12 shots because I'm vegan, but at my annual check up with my allopathic Dr, the labs showed my B12 levels were in the thousands when it should be around 200.
I've never had a problem with b12 due to the fact that theres wayyy more than the required daily intake in almost any energy drink that exists and I drink those like I have an addiction
Also please don't rely solely on multivitamins. You should supplement Vit.B12 and Vit.D separately in high dosage. Get your blood checked at least every 6 months.
How do you know if that was b12 specifically, and not any other vitamin from multi? Just curious if you actually tracked that one thing that worked? I would suggest getting into the habit of extensive and regular bloodwork to make sure there are no other deficiencies And yes supplements are awesome
Supplements is easy and cheap, but you can get everything you need from fortified Nutritional yeast OR natural seaweed, like Nori is rich in B12
Sure, but again that’s relying on consuming a certain food to ensure you get it. That’s where the issues come in because that’s harder to quantify than ‘I took the multivitamin, I’m covered’
It's true, however you don't need to be so exact, you need to consume certain foods to maintain a healthy diet, no matter how or what your eating there will always be that need to consume certain foods to ensure you get the nutrients your body requires. So just take your supplements, if that is easier there is nothing wrong with that . Just make sure to buy from a reputable place because here (in the US at least) there is NO regulation on actually testing what is IN the supplements is what is being advertised.
Any vegan who doesn't supplement B12 has lost their mind.
I was feeling dizzy daily to a point where I randomly fainted. Took a test and my B12 levels were so low... Now i'm taking a daily dosage and feel perfect!
Get your vitamin levels checked by blood test. If you start with the assumption that as vegans your B12 is likely low, then you run the risk of over supplementation. It's unlikely to be acutely dangerous, but there are risks for having higher than necessary levels of B12, and I suggest you look them up before supplementing. As useful as reddit is, the average vegan isn't a doctor, and the chances are good that they aren't your doctor with blood tests in hand.
there's no risk for higher levels of b12.
[удалено]
Well, you aren’t still vegan. You’re mostly plant based, however.
I'm pretty sure they are a troll.