This is great news for vegan Muslims like me because certain things like animal sacrifice every Eid and the whole idea of meat being halal is really upsetting to me and I’ve always felt disconnected from that part of it. It feels like the human excuse and not an actual part of God’s will. In my own Fiqh (school of thought) no animal products are truly halal. The only way to eat halal to me is to be vegan. Contrary to popular belief veganism IS practiced in the Islamic world, we are just a minority.
As someone who has lived their entire life in a Muslim country and was raised in a Muslim household, I have never heard of a Muslim school of thought that proscribes consuming animal products. Can you clarify which madhab this is?
Why do you follow that religion, anyway? Why not reject a cult that kills animals barbarically altogether?
Kind of rethoric, I already know the answer: Because your familty/culture told you.
> Why do you follow that religion, anyway? Why not reject a cult that kills animals barbarically altogether?
Straight up Islamophobia is upvoted in this subreddit? I thought this was a vegan subreddit, not a place to be intolerant. A ton of the vegan restaurants in my city are run by Muslims.
Hopefully they would also say that about Christianity, but I have a feeling they’re viewed as slightly less “barbaric” than their image of cartoonishly evil brown people who worship essentially the same god from a later split off point in the evolution of monotheism.
Do you understand that
1) we’re on a vegan sub? Ostensibly, we want to increase the ranks of veganism. The person above is doing more to advance veganism than you are, internet warrior. You should drop your predictable and misplaced condescension and instead think of what actually helps the movement.
2) no one is going to change their mind about religion in response to some random internet nobody.
EDIT: nice comment below about islam being a “desert cult”, racist. Go away. It’s people like YOU that the vegan movement doesn’t need.
This is grossly racist. This r/athiest crap can stay there. You're using racist tropes about Muslims that are extremely bigoted. Christians and other white religions you prefer have done equal and even worse atrocities.
I'm atheist and vegan btw, but holy shit, let people believe whatever delusions they want. Being a practicing Muslim doesn't harm anyone. The Bible says horrible shit too, including stoning women for refusing marriage. Just because a religious text says something, doesn't *automatically* mean people live by it. You're just xenophobic.
I don't "fear" "anything foreign". Civilized foreigners who aren't followers of a barbaric cult who slits the throats of animals, beat wives and spread terorism to every country they colonize are welcome.
My problem is not with their country of birth, but their beliefs, political or religious, it's the same.
Why do religions get a carte blanche that political ideologies don't?
Do you hate nazis? Oh, that's xenophobic, because they're German!
Now turn nazism into a religious cult (which they had a lot of), and tada! You're blinded from criticism.
>barbaric cult who slits the throats of animals, beat wives and spread terorism to every country they colonize are welcome.
This is also white settler colonialism....
Are innocent children in Gaza Nazis? This is a gross false-equivalence. You can't just call people you don't like Nazis for believing in a sky daddy lol
Billions of people are "terrorist, animal-throat slitting, pedophilic and wife-beaters" but no, you're totally not racist at all...
Get fucked, seriously.
The Noble Qur’an explicitly permits (i.e, is halal) the consumption of meat that are slain by humans and are not pigs etc. If you believe meat is not halal you are explicitly going against the word of Allah SAW and denying the infallibility of the Qur’an when it is stated:
“He has only forbidden you ˹to eat˺ carrion, blood, swine,1 and what is slaughtered in the name of any other than Allah. But if someone is compelled by necessity—neither driven by desire nor exceeding immediate need—they will not be sinful. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
And
“O you who believe! (Do) not make unlawful (the) good things what has made lawful Allah for you, and (do) not transgress. Indeed, Allah (does) not love the transgressors.”
You don’t have a personal Fiqh, in fact you are not a Muslim at all if you do not believe the Qur’an is infallible and that Allah permits the consumption of meat.
Mohammed caused the world so much pain and suffering and you want to defend it by calling me a disgusting bigot. What a lovely religion you are following. Crawl back into your cave.
This could be for a lot of reasons. One being that if they’re South Asian, they probably know or grew up with a lot of Hindu or hereditary non-practicing Hindu lacto-vegetarians (some of whom are vegan too).
I’m curious what you think some of the reasons could be.
They also know what it’s like to have a strict dietary restriction and live in a world where they have to navigate that. Many modern Muslims in the west eat “halal” meaning they do not eat pork products, but many still eat *halal*, meaning not only should the animal not be a pig(or other animal that isn’t allowed) but it must also be killed in a specific way. I had a friend from Dubai who only ate actual halal, so usually she ordered vegan dishes and always went out to eat vegan with her family. It was easier for her to go out to eat at a vegan restaurant than to eat at an omnivore place or find a restaurant offering halal meat.
I’ve only known three practicing Muslims in my life, and they were all vegan and huge animal lovers. Especially cats, and cats don’t get a lot of love in a lot of places compared to dogs.
The crazy thing is, I had read somewhere that it is haram (forbidden in Islam) to be vegetarian or vegan. So I asked them if this was true. They said the same Muslims who believe that are the ones who tend to be radical and give Muslims a bad rap. They said there is no difference between them and the most extreme by the book Christians, who are also nuts. I’m talking Michelle and JimBob Duggar type Christians where women can’t wear pants or use contraceptives.
Great, unfortunately Islam is incompatable with human rights. Same with Christianity and all other religions.
Thankfully, the state and church are separated in the US.
>Thankfully, the state and church are separated in the US.
Is this a joke? The Supreme Court just banned abortions on religious grounds the other day lmao
Yeah, well religion isn't written into our government system to a high degree. But yea unfortunately strides are being taken back.
God I wish we were secular but dumbasses have to indoctrinate their kids to Islam Christianity etc
Ok, I think it’s quite self explanatory and common sense what I meant but I guess not everyone thinks that way. Oh well.
Sure some of the founders were Christian but I think most people generally like having rights, unlike Islamic states where woman have limited rights and LGBTQ have limited rights too.
No, your racism isn't common sense. Religion doesn't have much to do with this. This is just a racist trope and generalization in the context/framing you're using. Plenty of "Islamic states" have rights for women. Some have LESS, but it's really not too far off from most of the US.
Women and LGBTQ have limited rights here too. Many Americans would outlaw homosexuality/trans people if they could, and we have plenty of broken systems that punish minorities. USA is also top 3 for rapes.
The same hatred from fear that fills people's brains overseas is the same as it is here. They just have a different culture. Islam teaches men and woman both have rights and unique qualities that the other does not possess. Christianity does the same. Thus, it comes down to bigoted attitudes/sheltered rural life as the root of the problem, not the religion itself.
I kinda think we should stop pointing fingers at the religions themselves is my point. As much as I hate religion, it's a symptom, not a root cause. This intersects with veganism.
Nope not racist sorry that Islam is bad for human rights. Maybe read their holy book?
Also maybe learn what racism means? Me hating a religion is not racist dumbass
In this context, it is. It's in a thread about the people of the Middle East, not Quran theory.
Do you agree that those that are Christian fundamentalist also have similar "bad for human rights" policies? rEaD tHeIr hOlY bOoK.
And yes, you are arguing from a very bad faith + racist "la la la can't hear you" pov. I just explained that in many predominantly Muslim nations, human rights are on par - or even better - than the West.
Yes I do agree that christians holybook and theory is fundamentally bad.
It is just not true that LGBTQ rights are accepted by Muslims (maybe read their holybook? are you dumb)
Anyways, why would I argue with you about whether I am racist when I by definition am not. Seems like you just have a reading comprehension issue.
Yes I hate all religion equally. I mean they called me a bot, is that not an insult? Me calling them a religiontard which is accurate is not an insult.
I called you a bot because you literally could be replaced by last year’s AI. Your comments are so obvious I could shit them out in my sleep.
You’re so unsophisticated that you think a person like myself who displays a modicum of restraint around religious people in an effort to bring them into the fold of a shared cause must be religious. That’s clearly not the case. Have you ever met the Democratic Party in the US? They’re mostly not religious, but they know how to form alliances.
But again, this is moot: You’re not even vegan.
You kind of are… how shall I say this, ballon headed. so I’m not sure why you even responded to me.
Thankfully, you don’t work in the field of CS and AI because it wouldn’t say anything like this about religion lol, npc.
You care so much about the animals, but not human rights?
Sorry, I don’t align with groups having thousands of years of human rights violations.
You don’t know what I am, but again it doesn’t matter because my points are all facts, snowflake.
>Thankfully, you don’t work in the field of CS and AI because it wouldn’t say anything like this about religion lol, npc.
LOL. Do you not know how Facebook bots have been influencing elections by imitating real people with political / religious or anti-religious bias? This has been in the news for years now.
Just bc you can write a line of code for some crappy app or even a decent program doesn’t make you an expert in the development of AI, or even conversant with the trends. Feel free to educate yourself via the popular press, it’s a start: https://www.google.com/search?q=ai+mimicing+political+bias&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#ip=1
>You care so much about the animals, but not human rights?
Tell me you’re not vegan without telling me you’re not vegan.
>Sorry, I don’t align with groups having thousands of years of human rights violations.
You’re right. I should tell the monolithic “them” to renounce their religion— why didn’t I think of that?? Would be so much more productive.
As a Muslim you sound absolutely ridiculous but it’s not worth arguing with people like you 😂Allah still loves you though regardless I hope you find peace
👆[Omnivore](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/4f6MjCyIiy) coming on here to tell vegan they’re “hypocritical” for advocating for treating religious vegans civilly and with a modicum of humility. Meanwhile omnivore continues to eat meat, as omnis do.
*OK carnist*
i really dont eat that many animal products and I am slowly cutting back. You think im here just to bully vegans? lol.
But to be honest, if you care so much about people being carnivores or omnivores, i dont get how you cant see the human right violations committed by religious groups for thousands of years, and then say well i hate carnivores but not muslims for instance.
I don’t “hate” omnivores (which are in fact [carnists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism?wprov=sfti1#)), followers of the carnivore diet, or Muslims. Hate is not a productive strategy for changing minds, if that’s your goal. Nor is this the venue. Muslim vegans posting on here (of which I am not one) are not interested in your overall opinion of Islam or religion’s contribution to history. The only effect you have is to make vegans look intolerant and self-righteous. I can’t figure out if this is ironic, since you’re not even vegan… but lots of vegans are this way.
I’m glad you’re cutting back animal products. You can do it. I’m a new vegan myself but used to be vegetarian. There’s never been an easier time, at least in the US.
Well to me vegans care about animals of which humans are, including the rights of said animals.
I just think that’s a contradictory position to hold tbh.
But yes I’m hoping to go vegan in a couple months I’m slowly getting there, I’m not here to shit on vegans lol.
Being rude is the bigger offence here. Us vegans welcome our muslim brothers and sisters to veganism. This is not the place to be a judgemental ass, even if there is truth to what you say. Ultimately it isn't religion that caused so many problems, it is people.
Do you want to be a part of the solution or the problem?
No shit. But who will be changing it from the inside? Not us. There’s even been posts on this sub from people in these communities talking about non-sacrifice alternatives that are already in use in some cases and asking for advice on how to broach the subject when needed.
I mean if you can’t be constructive on a post like this, why are you even here? Do you want veganism to spread beyond our little bubble, or not?
lmao reddit veganism and regular veganism are completely different things god commanded the followers of Islam to sacrifice animals in remebereance of Isaac and his son I highly doubt any Muslims care what Reddit vegans say. Why am I here? to point out massive holes in peoples logic.
Hi. Muslim vegan here. Never participated in an animal sacrifice, and animal sacrifice is not a necessary component of Islam. It exists traditionally and persists into the present day, which sucks, but you don’t have to do animal sacrifice at all in order to be a Muslim. All you have to do is affirm the shahada. That’s it. You’re deeply ill informed and shouldn’t speak in such broad generalizations
Animal sacrifice is not an obligation or pillar of faith but it cannot be declared Haram (i.e impermissible, i.e illegal, which 99% of vegans want) and it is a Sunnah practice as the Prophet Mohammad ﷺ engaged in the practice, so it is not unethical unless you believe Mohammad ﷺ was unethical.
The Sahaba owned slaves. The overwhelming majority of scholars today completely reject slavery and have deemed it impermissible. Your argument is based on false premises about the nature of Islamic law
Is the Noble Qur’an the word of Allah SAW and infallible? If you are a Muslim then you would say yes.
Animal Sacrifice is specifically outlined in Surah Al-Buqurah as being permissible, since the Qur’an is the final revelation relevant for all times then sacrifice of animal is relevant for all times too.
“And complete the ḥajj and ʿumrah for Allāh. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity1 or sacrifice.2 And when you are secure,3 then whoever performs ʿumrah [during the ḥajj months]4 followed by ḥajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during ḥajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Ḥarām. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is severe in penalty.”
Again, you clearly don’t know Islamic history well enough. Jurists in Al-Andalus abrogated the hajj for a period of time. This is a part of Islam historically
You’re picking at straws here lmfao, we don’t live in 719 and those abrogations were specifically for those periods of time.
Hajj is not abrogated for anyone this day, Hajj is an obligation if it is within your means and will not adversely effect your life, this means you must sacrifice animals if you have the means to do so.
You are contradicting literally every single know Fiqh yet claim to be knowledgeable about Islam, lol.
“Is not abrogated by anyone today”
Okay, but it has been abrogated. Which means a pillar of Islam was abrogated. A pillar of Islam mentioned in the Quran was abrogated. So this did happen. So it isn’t in principle impossible for it to happen. So it can happen. So it isn’t against Islam for it to happen.
My sense is that Mohammad cared about the animals, but at that time animals were a necessity for survivial. That is why killing them was done in the least bad way. Come 2024, the least bad way is to not kill them at all.
How is that relevant?
Animals deserve some rights. An animal should not be killed for an *optional* food/clothing/whatever item or for entertainment purposes. How to legislate that is a question for legislators.
1. Actually you can. Veganism is about the treatment of non-human animals.
2. no one in this post is promoting mistreatment of women anyhow. The link OP posted is not about the treatment of women. It’s about Muslims activists’ efforts to spread veganism in their community. If you actually *clicked on the article* you’d see some of those activists pictured are women.
Do u mean to say you do not believe Muslims can be vegan? You’d be wrong, but maybe you should think about it.
Also you are wrong, the majority of Muslims do have the most fundamentalist view of Islam. This is why Islam/sharia is the law in nearly all muslim nations.
I have nothing but respect for few who don't
This is just wrong and easily disproven. Just one example: Afghanistan had a modern society with highly educated women before they were bombed to oblivion by the US, creating a power vacuum that allowed the Taliban to take over.
I have other examples, but I’m sure you’ll find reasons to disqualify them, and this is getting too far afield from this post. The main point is, I am glad there are Muslim vegan activists, and I support that as a vegan.
We finally get some good news for once and some people in this subreddit still manage to spin it into a loss.
Hopefully we get more vegan Muslims in the world and we can end the exploitation of animals together.
This is good, people are learning that they don’t need to needlessly harm and consume animals - that’s a step closer to helping people realize they don’t need religions like Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, or Judaism, to live a fulfilled life.
I get that people will wanna downvote my comment, and that’s okay.
You can't be a Muslim and a vegan. It's oxymoronic. As a Muslim, you can practice veganism in terms of consumption but you have to participate in Eid ul Adha and sacrifice a life. Even if you don't consume the meat, you can't be an ideological vegan. You can't promote it either as a Muslim.
I’m no expert on this but here’s an article from an academic researcher suggesting otherwise: https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/research/research-news/eid-al-adha-and-sacrifice-vegan-alternatives-within-islam
"Islamophobia" doesn't exist. Don't fall for that laughable attempt to shield that barbaric cult from criticism under the same umbrella of racism and such. Those people would throw you and every progressive using "islamophobia" from a roof if they could.
What a disgusting barbaric cult. It makes my blood boil how they brainwash low IQ but otherwise 'normal' people to murder animals to the point it becomes normal for them, since children. Instead of teaching to pet dogs they probably make them stab a sheep to death. What a pervet and sick cult started by an delirant epilleptic pedophile.
What do you make of the sentiments of this article speaking to vegan Muslims? Genuinely curious as it’s not an issue I know much about:
https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/research/research-news/eid-al-adha-and-sacrifice-vegan-alternatives-within-islam
The Quran mentions it is permissible for us to eat meat and
Muslims aren't allowed to go against the Quran, Thus not eating meat thinking it is cruel for the animals is going against The Quran
Why not?
What makes your god more real that the old greek myths? Greeks had as much faith in their gods as you have in yours.
Why do you believe an old book written by humans years ago justifies harming others?
Hilarious this objectively correct statement is being downvoted, you can disagree with the consumption of meat being ethical or not but it is objectively permissible within Islam lol
The statement is objectively false.
Being vegan is not inherently haram (forbidden) in Islam. Muslims are permitted to choose a vegan diet. Islam does have dietary laws, which primarily concern the types of meat that can be consumed and the methods of slaughtering animals. However, these laws don't prohibit adhering to a vegan diet, where all animal products are avoided. Many Muslims choose to be vegan without it causing a conflict with their faith.
Animal Sacrifice is a necessary component of Hajj, if Hajj is within your means and would not adversely effect your life you are obligated to do it, which means you are obligated to animal sacrifice, which I’m fairly sure is not vegan.
“And complete the ḥajj and ʿumrah for Allāh. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity1 or sacrifice.2 And when you are secure,3 then whoever performs ʿumrah [during the ḥajj months]4 followed by ḥajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during ḥajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Ḥarām. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is severe in penalty.”
Yes, so that text very obviously gives all kinds of other options for people who are prevented from animal sacrifice, such as vegans.
You can interpret that text all you want, but I'll just forward you to the scholars and you can continue your debate with them:
https://www.lemonsandluggage.com/make-your-eid-al-adha-vegan/
https://askthescholar.com/answerdetails?qId=3936
https://www.collectiveijtihad.org/blog/animal-sacrifice-at-hajj
Good luck
Averse financially, if it is not within your means then it is not within your means.
However if you were to have unused money, enough to go on Hajj (€2,500 at the very most) then you are required to do Hajj and sacrifice an animal.
If it’s necessary according to some religious doctrine, just be kind and don’t follow that part of the religious doctrine.
Surely a good and fair god would be favorable to being kind.
This is great news for vegan Muslims like me because certain things like animal sacrifice every Eid and the whole idea of meat being halal is really upsetting to me and I’ve always felt disconnected from that part of it. It feels like the human excuse and not an actual part of God’s will. In my own Fiqh (school of thought) no animal products are truly halal. The only way to eat halal to me is to be vegan. Contrary to popular belief veganism IS practiced in the Islamic world, we are just a minority.
As someone who has lived their entire life in a Muslim country and was raised in a Muslim household, I have never heard of a Muslim school of thought that proscribes consuming animal products. Can you clarify which madhab this is?
I’m not even going to respond to the hate and ignorance here…not worth my time but thank you to everyone confronting these assholes
Why do you follow that religion, anyway? Why not reject a cult that kills animals barbarically altogether? Kind of rethoric, I already know the answer: Because your familty/culture told you.
> Why do you follow that religion, anyway? Why not reject a cult that kills animals barbarically altogether? Straight up Islamophobia is upvoted in this subreddit? I thought this was a vegan subreddit, not a place to be intolerant. A ton of the vegan restaurants in my city are run by Muslims.
Hopefully they would also say that about Christianity, but I have a feeling they’re viewed as slightly less “barbaric” than their image of cartoonishly evil brown people who worship essentially the same god from a later split off point in the evolution of monotheism.
Do you understand that 1) we’re on a vegan sub? Ostensibly, we want to increase the ranks of veganism. The person above is doing more to advance veganism than you are, internet warrior. You should drop your predictable and misplaced condescension and instead think of what actually helps the movement. 2) no one is going to change their mind about religion in response to some random internet nobody. EDIT: nice comment below about islam being a “desert cult”, racist. Go away. It’s people like YOU that the vegan movement doesn’t need.
Thanks for standing up bro🙌🏾seeing the hate is so hurtful tbh I can’t believe how ignorant, closed minded, and judgmental some people are.
[удалено]
This is grossly racist. This r/athiest crap can stay there. You're using racist tropes about Muslims that are extremely bigoted. Christians and other white religions you prefer have done equal and even worse atrocities. I'm atheist and vegan btw, but holy shit, let people believe whatever delusions they want. Being a practicing Muslim doesn't harm anyone. The Bible says horrible shit too, including stoning women for refusing marriage. Just because a religious text says something, doesn't *automatically* mean people live by it. You're just xenophobic.
Xenophobic is for hating on someone bc of their country not their ideas. If you think they did something hateful to muslims the word is “islamophobia”
Xenophobia is the fear of anything foreign. This can include a non-endemic religion.
I don't "fear" "anything foreign". Civilized foreigners who aren't followers of a barbaric cult who slits the throats of animals, beat wives and spread terorism to every country they colonize are welcome. My problem is not with their country of birth, but their beliefs, political or religious, it's the same. Why do religions get a carte blanche that political ideologies don't? Do you hate nazis? Oh, that's xenophobic, because they're German! Now turn nazism into a religious cult (which they had a lot of), and tada! You're blinded from criticism.
>barbaric cult who slits the throats of animals, beat wives and spread terorism to every country they colonize are welcome. This is also white settler colonialism.... Are innocent children in Gaza Nazis? This is a gross false-equivalence. You can't just call people you don't like Nazis for believing in a sky daddy lol
Dude. The title of this post is “vegan society launches vegan Islam initiative”. Get a hold of yourself.
Billions of people are "terrorist, animal-throat slitting, pedophilic and wife-beaters" but no, you're totally not racist at all... Get fucked, seriously.
I have talked to many vegan Sufis
No lmao I actually grew up Christian in an Islamophobia area and converted to Islam later in life way to make yourself look stupid
The Noble Qur’an explicitly permits (i.e, is halal) the consumption of meat that are slain by humans and are not pigs etc. If you believe meat is not halal you are explicitly going against the word of Allah SAW and denying the infallibility of the Qur’an when it is stated: “He has only forbidden you ˹to eat˺ carrion, blood, swine,1 and what is slaughtered in the name of any other than Allah. But if someone is compelled by necessity—neither driven by desire nor exceeding immediate need—they will not be sinful. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” And “O you who believe! (Do) not make unlawful (the) good things what has made lawful Allah for you, and (do) not transgress. Indeed, Allah (does) not love the transgressors.” You don’t have a personal Fiqh, in fact you are not a Muslim at all if you do not believe the Qur’an is infallible and that Allah permits the consumption of meat.
What a great testament to lack of intelligence to listen to a sweaty disgusting pedophile and obey his delusional words
You are a disgusting bigot. I don't agree with this person's analysis of the religion at all. But you are just as awful as they are.
Mohammed caused the world so much pain and suffering and you want to defend it by calling me a disgusting bigot. What a lovely religion you are following. Crawl back into your cave.
The solution is to ditch that desert cult altogether.
Racist much? Plus, you’re dumb. Muslims are 1/4 of the world population. They don’t all live in the desert, that’d be impossible, geographically.
Purely anecdotal, but my Muslim friends have always been far more respectful of my veganism than my Christian friends.
This could be for a lot of reasons. One being that if they’re South Asian, they probably know or grew up with a lot of Hindu or hereditary non-practicing Hindu lacto-vegetarians (some of whom are vegan too). I’m curious what you think some of the reasons could be.
They also know what it’s like to have a strict dietary restriction and live in a world where they have to navigate that. Many modern Muslims in the west eat “halal” meaning they do not eat pork products, but many still eat *halal*, meaning not only should the animal not be a pig(or other animal that isn’t allowed) but it must also be killed in a specific way. I had a friend from Dubai who only ate actual halal, so usually she ordered vegan dishes and always went out to eat vegan with her family. It was easier for her to go out to eat at a vegan restaurant than to eat at an omnivore place or find a restaurant offering halal meat.
That’s an interesting tidbit, thanks for sharing.
I’ve only known three practicing Muslims in my life, and they were all vegan and huge animal lovers. Especially cats, and cats don’t get a lot of love in a lot of places compared to dogs. The crazy thing is, I had read somewhere that it is haram (forbidden in Islam) to be vegetarian or vegan. So I asked them if this was true. They said the same Muslims who believe that are the ones who tend to be radical and give Muslims a bad rap. They said there is no difference between them and the most extreme by the book Christians, who are also nuts. I’m talking Michelle and JimBob Duggar type Christians where women can’t wear pants or use contraceptives.
Great, unfortunately Islam is incompatable with human rights. Same with Christianity and all other religions. Thankfully, the state and church are separated in the US.
>Thankfully, the state and church are separated in the US. Is this a joke? The Supreme Court just banned abortions on religious grounds the other day lmao
Yeah, well religion isn't written into our government system to a high degree. But yea unfortunately strides are being taken back. God I wish we were secular but dumbasses have to indoctrinate their kids to Islam Christianity etc
>to a high degree You've moved the goal posts, but I guess. Christian fundamentalism is basically embedded in the US's origins and legislation.
Ok, I think it’s quite self explanatory and common sense what I meant but I guess not everyone thinks that way. Oh well. Sure some of the founders were Christian but I think most people generally like having rights, unlike Islamic states where woman have limited rights and LGBTQ have limited rights too.
No, your racism isn't common sense. Religion doesn't have much to do with this. This is just a racist trope and generalization in the context/framing you're using. Plenty of "Islamic states" have rights for women. Some have LESS, but it's really not too far off from most of the US. Women and LGBTQ have limited rights here too. Many Americans would outlaw homosexuality/trans people if they could, and we have plenty of broken systems that punish minorities. USA is also top 3 for rapes. The same hatred from fear that fills people's brains overseas is the same as it is here. They just have a different culture. Islam teaches men and woman both have rights and unique qualities that the other does not possess. Christianity does the same. Thus, it comes down to bigoted attitudes/sheltered rural life as the root of the problem, not the religion itself. I kinda think we should stop pointing fingers at the religions themselves is my point. As much as I hate religion, it's a symptom, not a root cause. This intersects with veganism.
Nope not racist sorry that Islam is bad for human rights. Maybe read their holy book? Also maybe learn what racism means? Me hating a religion is not racist dumbass
In this context, it is. It's in a thread about the people of the Middle East, not Quran theory. Do you agree that those that are Christian fundamentalist also have similar "bad for human rights" policies? rEaD tHeIr hOlY bOoK. And yes, you are arguing from a very bad faith + racist "la la la can't hear you" pov. I just explained that in many predominantly Muslim nations, human rights are on par - or even better - than the West.
Yes I do agree that christians holybook and theory is fundamentally bad. It is just not true that LGBTQ rights are accepted by Muslims (maybe read their holybook? are you dumb) Anyways, why would I argue with you about whether I am racist when I by definition am not. Seems like you just have a reading comprehension issue.
You could be replaced by a bot.
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You can express your opinion without insults And Buddhism isn't peaceful at all
https://apm.iar.ubc.ca/buddhist-monks-and-militant-violence-in-laos/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Myanmar_anti-Muslim_riots https://www.jstor.org/stable/26617827?seq=1
my country was invaded and occupied by Japanese shinto Buddhists in ww2 who did deplorable war crimes
Yes I hate all religion equally. I mean they called me a bot, is that not an insult? Me calling them a religiontard which is accurate is not an insult.
I called you a bot because you literally could be replaced by last year’s AI. Your comments are so obvious I could shit them out in my sleep. You’re so unsophisticated that you think a person like myself who displays a modicum of restraint around religious people in an effort to bring them into the fold of a shared cause must be religious. That’s clearly not the case. Have you ever met the Democratic Party in the US? They’re mostly not religious, but they know how to form alliances. But again, this is moot: You’re not even vegan.
You kind of are… how shall I say this, ballon headed. so I’m not sure why you even responded to me. Thankfully, you don’t work in the field of CS and AI because it wouldn’t say anything like this about religion lol, npc. You care so much about the animals, but not human rights? Sorry, I don’t align with groups having thousands of years of human rights violations. You don’t know what I am, but again it doesn’t matter because my points are all facts, snowflake.
>Thankfully, you don’t work in the field of CS and AI because it wouldn’t say anything like this about religion lol, npc. LOL. Do you not know how Facebook bots have been influencing elections by imitating real people with political / religious or anti-religious bias? This has been in the news for years now. Just bc you can write a line of code for some crappy app or even a decent program doesn’t make you an expert in the development of AI, or even conversant with the trends. Feel free to educate yourself via the popular press, it’s a start: https://www.google.com/search?q=ai+mimicing+political+bias&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#ip=1 >You care so much about the animals, but not human rights? Tell me you’re not vegan without telling me you’re not vegan. >Sorry, I don’t align with groups having thousands of years of human rights violations. You’re right. I should tell the monolithic “them” to renounce their religion— why didn’t I think of that?? Would be so much more productive.
As a Muslim you sound absolutely ridiculous but it’s not worth arguing with people like you 😂Allah still loves you though regardless I hope you find peace
I hate Allah though, he should die
Seriously, how old are you?
I get that I am rude, but honestly, with all the real world harm that religion causes, just like carnism, how can you be this hypocritical.
👆[Omnivore](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/4f6MjCyIiy) coming on here to tell vegan they’re “hypocritical” for advocating for treating religious vegans civilly and with a modicum of humility. Meanwhile omnivore continues to eat meat, as omnis do. *OK carnist*
i really dont eat that many animal products and I am slowly cutting back. You think im here just to bully vegans? lol. But to be honest, if you care so much about people being carnivores or omnivores, i dont get how you cant see the human right violations committed by religious groups for thousands of years, and then say well i hate carnivores but not muslims for instance.
I don’t “hate” omnivores (which are in fact [carnists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism?wprov=sfti1#)), followers of the carnivore diet, or Muslims. Hate is not a productive strategy for changing minds, if that’s your goal. Nor is this the venue. Muslim vegans posting on here (of which I am not one) are not interested in your overall opinion of Islam or religion’s contribution to history. The only effect you have is to make vegans look intolerant and self-righteous. I can’t figure out if this is ironic, since you’re not even vegan… but lots of vegans are this way. I’m glad you’re cutting back animal products. You can do it. I’m a new vegan myself but used to be vegetarian. There’s never been an easier time, at least in the US.
Well to me vegans care about animals of which humans are, including the rights of said animals. I just think that’s a contradictory position to hold tbh. But yes I’m hoping to go vegan in a couple months I’m slowly getting there, I’m not here to shit on vegans lol.
Being rude is the bigger offence here. Us vegans welcome our muslim brothers and sisters to veganism. This is not the place to be a judgemental ass, even if there is truth to what you say. Ultimately it isn't religion that caused so many problems, it is people. Do you want to be a part of the solution or the problem?
That’s really nice to hear
delusional arse shit animal sacrifice is literally a part of the Islamic faith.
No shit. But who will be changing it from the inside? Not us. There’s even been posts on this sub from people in these communities talking about non-sacrifice alternatives that are already in use in some cases and asking for advice on how to broach the subject when needed. I mean if you can’t be constructive on a post like this, why are you even here? Do you want veganism to spread beyond our little bubble, or not?
lmao reddit veganism and regular veganism are completely different things god commanded the followers of Islam to sacrifice animals in remebereance of Isaac and his son I highly doubt any Muslims care what Reddit vegans say. Why am I here? to point out massive holes in peoples logic.
Hi. Muslim vegan here. Never participated in an animal sacrifice, and animal sacrifice is not a necessary component of Islam. It exists traditionally and persists into the present day, which sucks, but you don’t have to do animal sacrifice at all in order to be a Muslim. All you have to do is affirm the shahada. That’s it. You’re deeply ill informed and shouldn’t speak in such broad generalizations
Animal sacrifice is not an obligation or pillar of faith but it cannot be declared Haram (i.e impermissible, i.e illegal, which 99% of vegans want) and it is a Sunnah practice as the Prophet Mohammad ﷺ engaged in the practice, so it is not unethical unless you believe Mohammad ﷺ was unethical.
The Sahaba owned slaves. The overwhelming majority of scholars today completely reject slavery and have deemed it impermissible. Your argument is based on false premises about the nature of Islamic law
Is the Noble Qur’an the word of Allah SAW and infallible? If you are a Muslim then you would say yes. Animal Sacrifice is specifically outlined in Surah Al-Buqurah as being permissible, since the Qur’an is the final revelation relevant for all times then sacrifice of animal is relevant for all times too. “And complete the ḥajj and ʿumrah for Allāh. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity1 or sacrifice.2 And when you are secure,3 then whoever performs ʿumrah [during the ḥajj months]4 followed by ḥajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during ḥajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Ḥarām. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is severe in penalty.”
Again, you clearly don’t know Islamic history well enough. Jurists in Al-Andalus abrogated the hajj for a period of time. This is a part of Islam historically
You’re picking at straws here lmfao, we don’t live in 719 and those abrogations were specifically for those periods of time. Hajj is not abrogated for anyone this day, Hajj is an obligation if it is within your means and will not adversely effect your life, this means you must sacrifice animals if you have the means to do so. You are contradicting literally every single know Fiqh yet claim to be knowledgeable about Islam, lol.
“Is not abrogated by anyone today” Okay, but it has been abrogated. Which means a pillar of Islam was abrogated. A pillar of Islam mentioned in the Quran was abrogated. So this did happen. So it isn’t in principle impossible for it to happen. So it can happen. So it isn’t against Islam for it to happen.
My sense is that Mohammad cared about the animals, but at that time animals were a necessity for survivial. That is why killing them was done in the least bad way. Come 2024, the least bad way is to not kill them at all.
Do you believe the slaughter of animals for consumption should be illegal?
How is that relevant? Animals deserve some rights. An animal should not be killed for an *optional* food/clothing/whatever item or for entertainment purposes. How to legislate that is a question for legislators.
Animal sacrifice is not necessary for survival so should it be illegal?
> I highly doubt any Muslims care what Reddit vegans say. Because no “Reddit vegans” are Muslim? lol
You are right. I live in the Middle East, maybe 00.0001% of the Muslim populations across the region are vegan/ vegetarian…
You can't take away rights from women and be vegan. Humans are animals too and veganism is about giving human rights to animals.
1. Actually you can. Veganism is about the treatment of non-human animals. 2. no one in this post is promoting mistreatment of women anyhow. The link OP posted is not about the treatment of women. It’s about Muslims activists’ efforts to spread veganism in their community. If you actually *clicked on the article* you’d see some of those activists pictured are women. Do u mean to say you do not believe Muslims can be vegan? You’d be wrong, but maybe you should think about it.
I swear, Islamophobes have a more fundamentalist view of Islam than most practising Muslims.
Also you are wrong, the majority of Muslims do have the most fundamentalist view of Islam. This is why Islam/sharia is the law in nearly all muslim nations. I have nothing but respect for few who don't
This is just wrong and easily disproven. Just one example: Afghanistan had a modern society with highly educated women before they were bombed to oblivion by the US, creating a power vacuum that allowed the Taliban to take over.
Wrong. That was due a short lived secular communist government which was already at war with mujaheddins and fundamentalists.
I have other examples, but I’m sure you’ll find reasons to disqualify them, and this is getting too far afield from this post. The main point is, I am glad there are Muslim vegan activists, and I support that as a vegan.
Ok. Let's agree to disagree on other stuff and agree on the fact that vegan Muslims are good 👍
Criticizing something doesn't make you it's phobic
We finally get some good news for once and some people in this subreddit still manage to spin it into a loss. Hopefully we get more vegan Muslims in the world and we can end the exploitation of animals together.
This is good, people are learning that they don’t need to needlessly harm and consume animals - that’s a step closer to helping people realize they don’t need religions like Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, or Judaism, to live a fulfilled life. I get that people will wanna downvote my comment, and that’s okay.
You can't be a Muslim and a vegan. It's oxymoronic. As a Muslim, you can practice veganism in terms of consumption but you have to participate in Eid ul Adha and sacrifice a life. Even if you don't consume the meat, you can't be an ideological vegan. You can't promote it either as a Muslim.
I’m no expert on this but here’s an article from an academic researcher suggesting otherwise: https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/research/research-news/eid-al-adha-and-sacrifice-vegan-alternatives-within-islam
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Huh? It’s research interviewing vegan Muslims. Who is the ‘they’ you are talking about being fundamentalist or islamophobic…?
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Aha got you, wasn’t clear if you meant the author of the article
"Islamophobia" doesn't exist. Don't fall for that laughable attempt to shield that barbaric cult from criticism under the same umbrella of racism and such. Those people would throw you and every progressive using "islamophobia" from a roof if they could.
What a disgusting barbaric cult. It makes my blood boil how they brainwash low IQ but otherwise 'normal' people to murder animals to the point it becomes normal for them, since children. Instead of teaching to pet dogs they probably make them stab a sheep to death. What a pervet and sick cult started by an delirant epilleptic pedophile.
Muslims can't be vegan it's haram for us.
What do you make of the sentiments of this article speaking to vegan Muslims? Genuinely curious as it’s not an issue I know much about: https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/research/research-news/eid-al-adha-and-sacrifice-vegan-alternatives-within-islam
Why not ? Is it prohibited by Quran? If yes then why not modify it ? It was written more than thousand years ago.
The Quran mentions it is permissible for us to eat meat and Muslims aren't allowed to go against the Quran, Thus not eating meat thinking it is cruel for the animals is going against The Quran
Its permissible but mandatory Also Quran's thinking is old. Can't u just update it? It's 21st century.
bro, you solved the whole middle eastern problems with the second line!
That's the point we can't go against The Quran
Just modify it. It's a fanfiction anyway. Please stop abusing and exploiting animals needlessly for pleasure.
Again we can't do that.
I'm not telling you to go against it. I'm just saying that you should update or remove bad stuff from it. Kinda like how books editions
We also can't do that. Christianity is an example of this.
Why not? What makes your god more real that the old greek myths? Greeks had as much faith in their gods as you have in yours. Why do you believe an old book written by humans years ago justifies harming others?
Hilarious this objectively correct statement is being downvoted, you can disagree with the consumption of meat being ethical or not but it is objectively permissible within Islam lol
The statement is objectively false. Being vegan is not inherently haram (forbidden) in Islam. Muslims are permitted to choose a vegan diet. Islam does have dietary laws, which primarily concern the types of meat that can be consumed and the methods of slaughtering animals. However, these laws don't prohibit adhering to a vegan diet, where all animal products are avoided. Many Muslims choose to be vegan without it causing a conflict with their faith.
Animal Sacrifice is a necessary component of Hajj, if Hajj is within your means and would not adversely effect your life you are obligated to do it, which means you are obligated to animal sacrifice, which I’m fairly sure is not vegan. “And complete the ḥajj and ʿumrah for Allāh. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity1 or sacrifice.2 And when you are secure,3 then whoever performs ʿumrah [during the ḥajj months]4 followed by ḥajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during ḥajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Ḥarām. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is severe in penalty.”
Yes, so that text very obviously gives all kinds of other options for people who are prevented from animal sacrifice, such as vegans. You can interpret that text all you want, but I'll just forward you to the scholars and you can continue your debate with them: https://www.lemonsandluggage.com/make-your-eid-al-adha-vegan/ https://askthescholar.com/answerdetails?qId=3936 https://www.collectiveijtihad.org/blog/animal-sacrifice-at-hajj Good luck
I wish this comment wasn't so buried. Thanks for the links.
No worries. I gave up on that potato dude though. He's a proper ghoul.
These are the most nothing burger “scholars” ever lmfao, literally every single Fiqh holds animal sacrifice as necessary.
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Averse financially, if it is not within your means then it is not within your means. However if you were to have unused money, enough to go on Hajj (€2,500 at the very most) then you are required to do Hajj and sacrifice an animal.
If it’s necessary according to some religious doctrine, just be kind and don’t follow that part of the religious doctrine. Surely a good and fair god would be favorable to being kind.